Studman, maybe. But there's not much on my end yet, so we'll get to questions like yous later on. I hope to post an update tonight...well..um...this morning. Hehe. But no promises just yet.

Also, I noticed you made a similar offer about making non-replacement character npcs in the Yoda forum. Have you really figured this out??? I'd like to see this in action if you wouldn't mind passing the process along, though I promise I will not steal your work.

Hey all, I just got a really, really good pic to work from. It's only 3/4 of the arena, though. I still need that big tunnel picture. But this is really one of the best detail shots I've seen: Prop builders at ILM design the Geonosis Arena (http://www.vfxpro.com/Graphics/Content/Big/attack.060702.15.Big.jpg)

Yes I have In general editing I have a big thread explaining the process

edit: the link is
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68203&pagenumber=1)

Ok, well I'm not really upset or anything. I'm just yelling because this thread is on page 2 and there is no real game footage yet. I had planned on making a significant update tonight but it just isn't ready. Sorry, guys! Well, I guess the worst you all could do is boycott this thread...LOL.

Just a little patience, please. I will be working hard again tomorrow night and hopefully I'll have something for the community. Things ARE going well so far, and my textures are importing well into Radiant. The blade texture looks so cool! I can't wait to show you, but if I compile now there will be many leaks.

Too many things going on in my life. I wish I had time for my hobbies like I did when I was a kid. (I'd also be in the middle of a nice, long break right now.) All of you going to regular colleges and various schools, SAVOR this time in your life! You will miss it!

Interesting thread you have going there, studman. And sorry to hear about your brother commandeering your computer! Well, you're alright in my book. I'll be looking forward to your tutorial. Can't wait to spawn a few npcs that actually look like Sith or Dark Jedi warriors. I'm tired of these crazy Reborn who wear neon red and yellow, or green and blue.

Sorry I'm a little off topic, but guess what?...I'm in charge of this thread and that means I'm entitled to say whatever I please...LOL. Anyway, I had an idea for a mod that would beef up force absorb a bit. It sure would be nice to be able to absorb force lightning! Dessan would have to come up with a new tactic! Somebody is working on a new force power mod, but I can't remember his name. But if you're out there and reading this, maybe its' something worth looking into?

The Arena is coming...just hang tight. :)

Uuuuhhh.....as times passes by, I get even more impatient :D:D

Looking so forward to see some of your screens of your project!

Happy fragging :D

brother....right;)

I was looking at the image, and I realized what may be effective is forced perspective.

I dont know if you've ever been to disneyland, but in main street, a street full of old style buildings, the first floor is full scale, the second is 3/4 of that, and so on.

For the arena, you could have say, four floors full scale, then two 3/4 floors clipped off, then even more smaller floors.

To indicate distance, you could make doorways of the same scale.

The only problem I can see is when people forcejump the illusion might be broken.

I'll try putting this into radient.
:)

ok DaJo this is just a suggestion/demonstration i whipped up.

I used forced perspective in this map to varying degrees of success.

Here is my simple arena made of endcaps (only one side)
http://home.adelphia.net/~nraec1/wip/test0.jpg)

I made the arena out of curves because with such a large map, the Q3 engine automatically LODS curves the further away you are, which is usually in a map this size beneficial. Also, the amount of doors increases as you get higher up.

Now, here is a shot with shadowtroopers for scale.
http://home.adelphia.net/~nraec1/wip/test1.jpg)

Now although the map really is big, the STs show how the size of the levels gradually decrease.


Okay, here I have added some of my beta LAATs
http://home.adelphia.net/~nraec1/wip/test2.jpg)
Scale is once more demonstrated.


http://home.adelphia.net/~nraec1/wip/test3.jpg)
However, in this shot I scaled and lowered the detail of the LAATs and put them above the arena. It still looks like they are high above, but you can see the true size of the models.

In conclusion, I find that the LAAT scaling as well as the perspective tricks worked pretty well...What do you think?

Would it be possible to make some of those LAAT's fly over the map??? Just like the single player lvl artus_topside...

Could be cool, and would make at good atmosphere in the map :)

Yes, it would be possible. I am trying to figure out whether trains can sett off triggers by flying through them., then there would be an illusion of laser bombardment.

hmm...

Second test map commencing!

your test pictures look good with that implimented. since games haven't come to an age where distance is blurred yet, if you are going to have these ships flying over, i see two things you could do to aid the effect and even make it easier on the computer:

1) make the ships on the train far less detailed. at a distance, no one will notice, but that way, less polys will be on the screen and rates can keep running smooth.

2) make a couple layers of train ships, but the farther away ones, just make them really small models. like i said, games don't blur, so people wouldn't know the difference. make them think they are way up there in the sky, but in reality, have the train layers only a couple feet apart but moving at different speeds. could work quiite well at making a great atmosphere, and at the same time not be so taxing on the CPU and GPU.

that's my two cents.

As for #1) If DaJo were to use it, It would be a low poly version as stated earlier.

For #2, I agree

Where's DaJo anyway?

I'm here...trying to stay awake...LOL.

I think I'm getting my second wind now. Here's the scoop. I'm still building the ground level of the map, but I think I have started too many areas down there, making it difficult to reach a stopping point so I can give you all some screens. I can GUARANTEE you that you will see some progress this weekend. I have gathered the major textures from my Bryce model, and I'm in the process of perfecting them in Photoshop and Painter.

Thanks for your help, winner_rex. I'll see where I can go with your method. The info about curves being LODed is good stuff! I was worried that the more curves I put in this map, the worse it was going to run. Also, winner, if you can get your LAAT idea working, and the model just a little more photorealistic, I'll be glad to implement your method of a few overhead flyby's.

Back to work!

no prob'm DaJo,

now I'm going to ask all you people waiting for this map to help me skin my LAAT...I simply cannot skin/texture very well. So If anyone would like to help me please PM me so the arena map is everything it should be.

You do know that you are playing with my patience here right? :D:D

Just kidding....can't wait to see some screenies!!

Hoping that it is working out this map :)

Uhuhuhuhuhh.......CAN'T WAITTT!!!

Don't get too excited, though. I just sealed up one of the many duplicate entry point rooms on the ground level (minus the columns that will cover the seams where the curves meet the solid wall). Lighting is really killing me. I would like to simulate daylight entering a non-lit room, but from past experience, I have noticed that putting the light in the doorway doesn't cut it, and it does some strange things to my curves. But I'm getting there.

Some info about the latest screenshot:
Textures are completely custom-made. The blade texture is the main feature here. These textures are on all the walls inside the rooms surrounding the arena. I think they are also on the base of the lookout towers.
If the lighting was correct in this room, the textures would appropriately simulate an area lit only by the doorway (which does not yet exist). Hopefully when I move the light closer to the door, things will look better. Right now I have a good blade texture sitting on yellow wrinkly paper walls. I'm working on it. :-)

Here's the update: www24.brinkster.com/jnday (http://www24.brinkster.com/jnday) Plenty of space to jump around in this room in case you get trapped! :-)

What's to come:
Geonosis circular prison cells! (How do I make an object glow like the saber?)
Arena floor with execution pillars and lookout towers.
Some exciting rock texture art I'm sure you'll love. Why? It was photosourced from the movie!

Stay tuned!

My suggestion would be to line up the textures of the bevel and the walls as opposed to covering them. Also, I think the blades may be better either inset, or just flush with the walls; they're inlays, not piping.

keep it up!

Aarrr!! You know that, that screenshot is what I'd call a teaser :D:D

Though I think it looks pretty cool anyway...nice to hear that you are progressing! Waiting to hear some more!

Hi all! I'm going to post a few new screenshots here. I'm having some major problems, though, and I'm hoping a few of you might be able to help me out. One thing I'm sure you'll agree on in these next photos is that the textures are better. But lighting is horrible. I just can't seem to get a dim light. That's not my only problem with lighting, though. Here we go.

(You'll have to copy/paste the direct links to the screens. Brinkster won't let me link them.)

The first issue is this:
http://www24.brinkster.com/jnday/shot0005.jpg)

Why am I so tall? The player character is supposed to be 64 units tall, right? I think that's what that blue indicator in Radiant is representative of? Also, I would think that the info_playerstart box would be the size of the character in game. That door is supposed to be TOWERING over my head, but right now I'm nearly bonking my head on it! (There's also some caulking mistakes inside the doorway, but that's easy to fix.)

The second issue has to do with lighting:
http://www24.brinkster.com/jnday/shot0006.jpg)

All the manuals say that the sky shader emits it's own light. That would probably solve the whole problem I'm having with lighting in my entire map! Unfortunately, unless I place a light entity in the center of the map, nothing in my map shows up but the sky. How do I make the sky emit sunlight and cast shadows, and how do I place dim fill lights in my scene?

The third screenshot is just to show off the new entry room, though there are some major problems here with lighting, caulking, and a...um...missing surface?:
http://www24.brinkster.com/jnday/shot0007.jpg)

If I'm going to have a light in these rooms, I need them to be dim and not so contrasty. How do I dim that light?

Thanks for all your help. Once these problems are solved, onward I will go. :)

DaJo:
For the first issue, I wouldn't worry about it; The geonosians were about half as tall as humans, If you 'll recall. But if you want to change it it looks like you can just move the two brushes on either side over a little more, delete the arches, and start again.

A good way to find scale is putting in a misc model of a "player/shadowtrooper/test.md3". Also, make sure you align those wall textures. Textures can easily make or break a level...so get real familiar with the surface inspector.

Quick question, do you build everything out of caulk, then texture? It's easier to do that because you only have to texture what you can see instead of trying to get the camera between brushes. After all, you build a house before you paint it.

Second, the sky you are using, Bespin, does not emit light and sky named "something_light" does. Try hitting N, clicking worldspawn, and typing (class)ambient (key)1 1 1 for a temporary fix (hopefully!). This may eliminate the need for filler lights, but you can always just make low intensity lights (50-100) and scatter them in rooms. Also, for the arena floor, if that is a custom texture, try making it a little more yellow. Then, shift-click it and scale it to...1.25 for X and Y, then rotate it by an odd number of degrees. This will make it more natural.

Third, I would say that 90% the missing surface is caulked. If I may make a suggestion, how about caulking over the wall, and making it a bumpy patch mesh. This is constructive criticism, but the walls look very angular and there are lots of cracks evident.

I am glad you took the piping suggestion to heart.

You are doing a great job, and we'll always be here to help so don't be afraid to ask questions!

Keep it up!

Winner_rex,

As always, your suggestions are helpful. I did agree with you about the blades that ran along the walls. They did need to be more "embossed" into the wall, rather than act as a ledge to stand on.

For scale, I guess I can't rely on the blue indicator on the left height dragger window. I will place a couple shadowtrooper entities for height. Those tunnels on the ground level of the map are actuallly really large because more species than just Geonosians go in and out of them. Also, I don't think that the ground level wall is meant to be force-jumped over. So I do want to make it pretty high.

Thanks for the lighting tip. As soon as you said it, I said, "Boy am I an idiot! Right next to the bespin shader was one called artus_light!" Eventually I'll want to make a custom sky shader that emits golden sunlight.

I'm going to redo those upper walls in the entry room. I agree that they should be more natural. I'll also boost the ambience a bit. I think that is necessary. Thanks again!

Heres a hint DaJo Kesa, You should of edited off that geonosis driod factory and add the arena ontop of it. So It would also have the geonosis driod factory!





:fire3: :fire2:

heh, I made that map, it...is possible.

Sorry, no updates tonight. I'm away from home, but I am taking the suggestions that were made to heart. And I AM learning! :)

I think the driod factory and the arena were separate areas, but I could be wrong. Also, this map is going to be HUGE as it is. For a while I thought that I had hit the scale limit or something on the map, so the game shrunk it a bit. But thankfully I was wrong. The player is actually more than 64 units high.

See you guys again sometime in the middle of this week. I'll be working hard till then.

i'm helping rex with the skin on his ship, so i now will be taking part of the blame if it doesn't shape up pretty soon. it will, don't worry. we're on it.

anyway, i was just thinking after playing ladder2 for about half an hour that if you did this as a quality SP at some point, the best way to do it might possibly just be an advanced ladder where droids keep coming at you and whatever else you want to throw at us. could be a very good level, if the massive size would allow for that much AI to exist at the same time. that's the tough part there.

just some thoughts. keep it coming. i have faith in this project.

You guys are killing me :D

Well...some really good idea's there...though O personally don't like a droid factory in the map....wouldn't fit in I think...kust the arena and stuff to the arena is enough for me :)

in the screenshot that you have, a lot of the wall textures aren't lining up. Also, those two horizontal lines that go along the walls look a little too purple. They should be like a dark grey or something.

The lighting was really screwed up in those last screenshots, Elkin. Nothing was as it is supposed to be.

HOWEVER, I have just about completed the entry room using a lot of patches and curves. It looks a million times better, and the frame rate is still decent. I just have a little touch up work to do in there, and then it will be ready. (I'll post a screenshot before I proceed.)

From that point, I will duplicate the entry point room several times and place them in a large oval, exits facing inward. A long hallway will also connect these rooms from behind, with a few ground level prison cell entrances along the opposite wall. The entry point rooms will all face inward toward the arena floor (next on my list of things to construct). Once all this is done, the ground level will be complete, and all that will be left to do is build UP!

Two (really four) questions:
1. Do detail brushes handle shadows and light just like structural ones? What about patches?
2. Second, does sky lighting pass through solid objects, constantly illuminating the floor even within rooms? If so, how do I make negative light or simulate shadows?

If anyone has a relatively close-up picture of the execution pillars, please send me one. I need to duplicate the texture and any possible deviation from the standard cylinder that might be near the top. I'm also going to revamp some of my textures since I now realize I can go higher than 256 px on textures that need to be large!

Hmm, those are questions for Rich.
I think structural brushes should only be "anything touching the void" at least according to some sites.

Here's a pic from the Padme Action figure, and it's reasonably accurate, though shorter...
http://www.rebelscum.com/photo.asp?image=swsaga/swsaga0202padmeaelooseltfront.jpg)

Rock on

Ok, I have the Padme action figure. So if her pillar is accurate, I'll go from that. Thanks for the pic. Rich is a good guy for help, too, thanks. His tutorials inspired me to start this project.

Well, I'm going to go get some junk food for inspiration :D and get back to work for the night. I hope to have something to show by sometime after midnight.

BTW, I found that putting a bevel on the floor where it meets the wall makes it look like sand pushed up against the edges of the room. Pretty neat! The trick is, again, lining up the textures.

Might I suggest that for the wall textures, that rather than using that brown, wave-like one that you currently have, that you use more of a dotted, dirt-like texture.
It would probably make an easier job lining everything up, since it would be pretty much seemless.

Or, you could just blend the two different textures together, to give it some variety.

EDIT: Nevermind. I just took a look at some of those messedup screens that you have, and the textures look really good.

I have been summoned? :p

Structural vs detail brushes make no difference in terms of visual quality. Both structural and detail brushes will look identical in-game.

The only difference between them is that detail brushes do not block the VIS process. Read Detail Brushes tutorial for more in-depth coverage. :)

As for patches, however, that's a bit different. Light shining on the front of a patch will be blocked (and cast a shadow) - however if you have any light source behind a curve, it will shine through as if the patch wasn't even there.

Sky lighting (if you're talking about a sky shader emitting surfacelight or sunlight) will shine just as if it was real lighting...it will not pass through any brushes.

Although incidentally, you can create negative light by adding the key light and a negative value. :D

ya learn something every day

Rich! Hi, and welcome! :) I had emailed you previously about how much I enjoyed, and benefited from your tutorials. jnday@prodigy.net. Thanks for contributing here.

LucasForums was down last night when I tried to post an update, so here it is! I'm happy with the results, especially with the new sand texture, complete with boot prints! Of course, it may start looking too much like a beach volleyball arena, so we'll have to see. But for now, I'm happy.
www24.brinkster.com/jnday (http://www24.brinkster.com/jnday)
I wonder if any light is getting behind those patches on the walls? I hope not. Actually, I'm hoping that the only reason the room is so bright with so little shadows is because I put the sky right in the doorway! That's only temporary until I create the arena floor. Any critcisms are welcome, but please hurry before I begin duplicating and rotating these rooms late tonight.

Question: How do I change the "clop clop" walking sound to more of a shuffling on sand sound in certain parts of the arena? Any way to make dust fly when you fall as well?

Thanks to all for your help, especially winner_rex and Rich. With the community behind me, things will work out just fine.

booya! looking good!
It doesnt look like any light is seeping through from the shots, like you said its probably because of the sky being so close. Also, another suggestion would to change the grey wall textures...as a temporary replacement I would suggest the yavin/v_ series textures. [edit] no, i take it back...use http://www24.brinkster.com/jnday/images/entry.jpg) the rock texture from this shot...
Everything else is looking great!

the room is looking good. goes well with the mood. not sure how to suggest to light it. a bit bright right now. the room anakin and padme were in in the movie was pretty dark, so i would say go for that. ambient light seeping in kind of like caustics off the sand. as for the walls, i almost like the old textures better. they seemed smoother and more natural. the new one seems a bit too busy, if that makes sense. other than that, looks good and i look forward to when you move out of the rooms to the REAL fun.

To light the rooms, couldn't you just have an illuminated arch-shaped polyhedron angling down onto the floor, like light coming into a dusty room through a window. This effect can be seen in Ente's level "PadHall" in the upper windows
http://www.jedioutcastmaps.com/core/241/b19.jpg)
Then, just have the rest of the room dimlit lighted the same throughout to make it look like the light is diffusing off the sand, since the direct sunlight won't be able to reach the walls and ceiling.

inbredyokel, I like that idea. In fact, I would like to use it for the ceiling spotlights in the prison cells. However, I think that the entryway is too large for that effect to realistically happen in these entry-point rooms. But yes, my intent is to have these rooms dark, with the textures barely visible through ambient lighting, and fill lights in certain spots to simulate reflected light.

Where can I find the shader for adding dusty light cones? And how would I go about making a glowing orb in the center of a room? (You'll see what I have in mind later.)

More to come. (I found the majority of the boot prints to be the size of Kyle's entire leg, so I might tweak that a bit before proceeding.)

for the orb, you could make a glass sphere brush and put a light entity inside of it...
or, i think in the flares folder there are flare effects but when i applied a flare to one surface it gave me an error message...but you could try it as a box...

The map sounds wonderful! Unfortunately, I can't access your site to see the progress thus far. Can anyone mirror the pics on a different server?:confused:

looks like they disabled hotlinking...
copy and paste

AH! I see. How could I have been so absent-minded. Thanks for knocking some screws loose.

The Map: Looks wonderful so far, needs better lighting (I know, this has been said many times). I'm looking forward to your progress on this gargantuan undertaking!:D

To be fair, he can't accurately create light until the map is essentially finished...so everyone knows:

Do not comment on the light yet

that is all:)

Sweet mother of Yoda!
Those latest shots are awesome!

I don't really see any problem with the lighting. Maybe it's because I have no experience in mapping.

when editing a shader, there is the ability to change the "material" to "sand".

don't know what this does though. and there are no such sounds in the assets files.

however, i may have some sand sounds from another game, footsteps and such, i shall look into this.

Hey, this looks like its going to be a really incredible map, lots of beautiful detail. I had a question though, I don't know much about mapping, but I was wondering if it were possible to make the pillars in the center of the arena collapsable like they are in the final duel with Desann? Its probably impossibly complicated, I just thought I would bring it up.

I didn't know the pillars were collapsible! I beat him in 7 tries by running up to him and slicing at him a lot.

Oh well...

I think the map is GREAT! It is looking wonderful!

In an SP version they could collapse.
In an MP version they could break.


booya grandma

Hi, all!

No updates tonigt...er... this morning :D, but I would like to say that things are going well. Thank you ALL for you wonderful compliments and contributions. Pakmannen, yes, thank you for mentioning the sound once again. That's a bridge I need to cross eventually.

Right now I'm having a little trouble with an arch I created. Just like the large arch that worked fine, I placed a bevel at the edge of the doorway, and added a thickness of 18. This makes a nice arch, by the way! However, in game it seems to be pulling apart. It may be because I ungrouped it and now each bevel is taking on different bend characteristics. I'll probably redo that arch without ungrouping, and I bet it will look just fine, so just hang tight a while. I must fix the minor issues as they come along, or I'll forget about them and give you beta testers a real workout!

I know the little stone structures in the throne room with Desann are breakable, but I didn't know you could collapse pillars! Nifty! Probably not an option available in MP, though. However, I am thinking I might make a few areas in the map deceptively breakable. What do I mean by that? Well, let's just say you're in a major saber fight and you corner your opponent. Suddenly, your saber taps a weaknness in the stone wall behind him, and the ledge gives, sending your opponent careening down from some high place back onto the arena floor. OUCH! But sweet! I'll see what I can do!

The pillar textures are complete now as well. They look pretty good, I think.

Nobody really knows exactly what the walkways behind the seating area really look like, so I guess I can feel free to take some artistic liberties! If anyone feels compelled to make a statue prefab of a Geonosian guard, fee free. I'll make some pedestals around the backs of entranceways and place these guys on them. Just a thought.

To bed I must go. Tomorrow/today is another day. Night all!

Uuuhhh....maybe no pictures, but a long post as yours are certainly just as good for us "waiters" :) Thank you again, for you new info on the map :D:D Sound like you have some cool ideas...that hing you mentioned about falling through this crack you can make in the wall...something like the detail in the duel_kamino ? When you fall out the edge...and then jump very high above, and end in the center of the map...is that would you ment?

Sounds good what you say!

Here comes a little droid.....just wanna tell ya it looks awesome!!!


Keep it up!