just dont forget the guns

a saber is nice to have (especially in SP) but in Multi, guns are whear it is at.. after all it is still an FPS, no matter how cool a saber may be...

Holy sh*t JKIII is SWEET!!!! i gonna liek beg my mom for that game lol but she'll say no. :(

sequel to jedi outcast? best news i've heard all day!!

the only thing i would really ask the developers to take into consideration is this: can you please PLEASE make the "bullets" move through the air faster?

i really hate FPS games where you can sit down and watch the bullets take their sweet ass time travelling through the air... the worst example coming to mind is 007 Agent Under Fire, i remember trying to take out a lone guard with an AK or somethin from a distance and actually watching the bullet fly through the air. meanwhile, the guard had enough time to hear me shoot, process this thought and run out of the way, and call for backup BEFORE the bullet hit the wall. ridiculous.

this is all i ask of you... the oppertunity to do some ownage with the stormtrooper rifle... and possibly the bryar/pistol (if you speed up the rate of fire so it functions as a more of a handgun... a la the handguns in counter-strike) oh and before i forget, the return of the REPEATER RIFLE. thank you and goodnight.

Saber fights sucked in JK2 when ppl just went crazy, the SP fights were much cooler and focused on combos and attack moves, MP was a hack fest.So here are my suggestions (everyone else is posting theirs so why not me :))

Saber Combat: Blocking moves must be done with a direction, ie. if you're being attacked from the left, you must press BLOCK+LEFT to move the saber to that side. Obviously blocking lasers etc will still be automatic, but blocking sabres will be manual. Or a slightly different system, blocks are made automatically for a saber hit, but unless the player does the BLOCK+<DIRECTION> keypress, you still get some damage, or you get pushed back.

Saber Locks: Saber locks too were a click-fest in MP, whoever had the better mouse won :) Make some 'escape' moves for the lock...an offensive move, like a puch/kick, or a force move, where you attempt to do damage to the other player. Some risk is involved with the offensive move though, if you miss or stuff it up, it'll leave you vunerable. A defensive move would include a force-push and jump backwards or something like that. No chance of doing damage to the other player, but it'll allow a better position to make the next attack.

Guns: If this game is going to be totally jedi orientated, there should be much use for gun should there? but the Raven people said there will be more guns than JK2. So, situations where a Jedi in training might use a gun? Broken/Lost lightsaber, after the Jedi has been captured, gun specific tasks (like shooting a button or something, or blowing a hole in a wall) A Jedi is taught to use everything at his disposal, even guns.

RPG gameplay: While i dont think this is a good idea per-se, the idea of 'experience points' to gain force power skills would be good. Do more challenging missions and you get more points. Also, making your character (clothing/race/appearance etc) really does sound like an RPG...

If Raven doesnt take some of these points up, i'll just code them myself when the game comes out :)

Originally posted by txa1265
I asked that myself, and got a 'definitely ... don't know;-)" from Chang. I am hoping that they do. Imagine 'kill the sith' or 'kill the jedi' missions, or 'escape' or 'rescue' whetever ... nice possibilities for extended playability.

Mike

Sorry I missed that... I've been skipping most of this thread... it's mostly complaints about really obscure and practically un-noticeable saber details.

material so in a manual your system would read something like this?

Offensive mode
LMB - swing left
RMB - swing right
MMB - swing top to bottom
SpaceBar - switch swing styles
CTRL- switch between Saber modes offense/defense

Defensive mode
LMB - Block left
RMB - block right
MMB - block center
Spacebar - switch block styles
CTRL- switch between Saber modes offense/defense

W - Move Forward
S - Move Backward
A - Strafe left
D - Strafe right
C - Crouch
Left Shift - Jump

to me I like how obiwan controlled, I could swing left/right/top to bottom standing still, or while running. That gave good simple control over the saber and really made you feel like you earned your kill vs JO's blocking and enemies running into your block animation and dieing while you try and get close enough to just swing at them.

Originally posted by AJL
http://alienjl.homestead.com/files/OrigSabers.jpg)
This is what sabers are look like in JO (and they aren't even close to movies...)

http://alienjl.homestead.com/files/Sfx2Sabers.jpg)
This is closer (not exactly but closer) to what i think they should be like

Is that some mod? If so, which one?

Originally posted by Matariel
Guns: If this game is going to be totally jedi orientated, there should be much use for gun should there? but the Raven people said there will be more guns than JK2. So, situations where a Jedi in training might use a gun? Broken/Lost lightsaber, after the Jedi has been captured, gun specific tasks (like shooting a button or something, or blowing a hole in a wall) A Jedi is taught to use everything at his disposal, even guns.


I think there will be many players which want the rifles. After JK2 many people think that it is only a further Shooter. And Raven would not like to lose these customers ;)

Originally posted by Jeff 42
:rolleyes: Kyle Katarn is a Jedi. Kyle Katarn uses guns. Kyle Katarn is a character in the Star Wars universe. A rocket launcher is a gun. Jedi shooting rocket launchers is not contradictory to the Star Wars universe. QED.

This gets brought up so much and I find it very annoying that some people seemingly want to force their ideas of what these games should be on others. A new class-based MP gametype would be cool. But if they force people to choose between using guns or using the Force in normal FFA/CTF games, it would kill the DF series.

1. Kyle Katarn was a convienient fiction created specifically for the DF series. He's just a mechanism to allow the player to go through the single player games and have a full arsenal at their disposal. He is not representative of the general Jedi populace. He is the exception.

A better solution to this would have been to let the player take over different characters at different parts of the game with different skillsets. Certain missions would begin with you as a Jedi, while others would begin with you as a smuggler, bounty hunter, soldier, etc. with access to their specific equipment and skills. This would also act as a primer for a class-based multiplayer game.

2. Allowing all players to use all weapons, equipment and force powers (of their force side) at all times led to homogeneity in jk2 MP. This was bad. Everybody was pretty much playing the same character.
Look at it this way: how much less fun would Battlefield 1942 be if everyone was allowed to carry all weapons/equipment at all times? Not much.

God, I can't believe I'm getting dragged back into this. You guys are going to make me do another mod if you keep this up...argh.

Just don't be starting another ASC. ;)

Sorry Arti, but there are many examples of Jedi using weapons other than the lightsabre in the EU, of which the DF series is a part. Kyle's not alone. And ALL Jedi are "convenient fictions" depending on what story you want to tell. They ain't real. ;)

Secondly, from a competitive point of view, everyone having access to the same abilities was a GOOD thing for multiplayer. If a class-based system was instituted, most people would have ended up using the same class in FFA, the most powerful class, just as they always end up using the same force-powers. In fact, if there was ANYTHING wrong with JO multiplayer from the outset, it was the fact that you had to choose between light and dark powers instead of having all at your disposal, and also the fact that most servers used Jedi Knight force levels, and on that level there weren't enough force-points to allocate. People ended up using the one or two most powerful light/dark powers and that was it.

Class-based multiplayer is good in a TEAM game, but no other game. And Team modes do not make up the whole of the DF series' modes.

Finally the Jedi Academy isn't technically part of the Dark Forces (Kyle) series as far as I'm aware, so gunplay shouldn't necessarily be the main focus. But gunplay HAS always been central to the Dark Forces series, and nobody should attempt to change that. If and when the next Dark Forces game is made, it should have plenty of guns, and plenty of scope for their use.

That's the game. What would Quake be without guns and gibs? It wouldn't be Quake anymore, that's what.

*agrees with Spider_AL*

Although I would like a proper guns presence in JA.

The game is called Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, you take the role of a jedi in training, therefore you will be using the Lightsaber more than guns. if u were going to be using guns through most of the game it would be could Jedi Knight: Dark Forces 3. god there are still months before the game comes out and people are already starting to complain.

Look maby guns dont exactly fit into the storyline but i want them anyway. I'm sure the guys at Raven will thing of something because they did say they would have more guns than JK2....:fett:

Originally posted by T-Dogg
Is that some mod? If so, which one?

SFX2

One thing i would like that they also make differently is the
SITH/DARK JEDI clothing, behaviour, way how they talk...

(I mean in JK1 and 2 they always have funny/stupid looking
colorfull clothes and they always laugh and irritate and...
but in movies they are very disciplined and serious and
their clothes are always dark/black and...)

I know that it is new rebublic and new styles and bla bla
bla but those siths just doesn't feel same... (and movie
siths are BETTER!)

I have to agree there, AJL. Sith should be much more serious. Being full of Rage does NOT turn you into a maniacally cackling buffoon like Tavion or Reborn.

I would say that all Desann's army has nothing to do with the Sith. They're just a bunch of imbued clowns having no idea about the Force.

Proto, that's a whole other debate :P In my view, Sith are Dark-Side Force adepts, named after the ancient cult devoted to the same. So (and this is just my opinion... but it's right :D ) any Force adept who uses the Dark Side should by rights be called a Sith.

Same with Jedi, Light-Side Force adepts. "Dark Jedi" is naturally an oxymoron.

But that aside, Sith, Dark Jedi or Imbued clown, the Dark Side shouldn't turn you into a giggling fool like Tavion or Reborn. That's just the old evil-laugh moustache-twirling bad guy stereotype. Darksiders should be more like Vader or Maul. Dark. Serious. Dangerous.

This discussion belongs somewhere else...:)

One thing that was pretty much right in JK2 about those DARK
SIDERS/ SITHS is that there were like there should be Master
and Apperintace... (not huge amounts of siths like in JK1)

Of course assuming that those reborns weren't really siths
but just some freaky force soldiers...

I agree. Imagine the Emprorer bouncing around Luke Laughing like some kind of a maniaic.

A good point has been raised about the enemies in JK II. First off, true Sith
are trained and studied in the ways of the old evil Sith servants of the dark side.
Examples of this would be Darth Vader and Count Dooku. These guys running
around in JK II, such as these "reborn" types, aren't real Sith. Actually, I'm not
sure what they are, since this whole thing about somehow having the force
stuffed into them doesn't make any sense. They aren't even fallen Jedi, since
they were never Jedi to begin with. And I hope Raven will stick to accurately
portraying this according to Star Wars canon in the future.

And I agree that if one is to encounter a Sith in the JK III, he shouldn't be
acting like some giddy nut case. Being a Sith certainly does make one evil,
but that doesn't mean that one suddenly begins to spout off like the Joker from
Batman. You'll note that the real Sith in Star Wars are quite serious in
their pursuits, sinister and ominous. Not cackling madmen. And I hope Raven
will keep that in mind when making JK III.

Bah, those brown desert robes and bantha herder outfits worn by the Jedi really lack variety.

I'm glad we get the cheesy outfits of other styles. In multiplayer all of that roleplaying stuff comes down to personal preference. So sure, I hope you get your jedi robes and sith movie outfits, but I hope there's lots of other neat outfits to wear too.

As far as Dark Jedi being an oxymoron, remember that the Sith are just one dark side religion (just as the jedi are one lightside religion). There is NO PLACE in the Jedi Order for the Dark Side, thus any Jedi who uses it becomes an outcast sooner or later.

They don't HAVE to join the Sith. Since the EU authors didn't understand GL's fleshed out history of the Sith the made up their own story. So we have force adepts who are not Jedi or Sith, Dark Jedi, Sith, and Jedi.

As to guns, just check out the EU... even the Jedi in Tales of the Jedi (the so-called "golden age") use non lightsaber weapons in battle, including guns. Luke carries a gun in the movies. Obi-Wan uses guns in the other Episode I games. And in multiplayer its all about personal preference. In a class based game I can understand limiting the weapons though...

As to Dark Jedi laughing and over-acting, check out Palpatine in ROTJ.... he's a grinning, gloating, cackling maniac. If he had a moustache, he'd be twirling it with the best of them.

If you were drunk with power and thought you had your enemy in a corner, you just might feel like that. ; )

Hello. Long time....

/rant on
I don't know what the new gametype(s) are. I wouldn't be surprised if it was something objective-based.... but are they gonna add a horde of totally new classes to multiplayer, stuff that has no relevence to the game's storyline? I doubt it. As much as I loved promod's different classes, they exasperate the difficulty of achieving proper game-balance tenfold. And even if they did make a bounty-hunter perfectly balanced against Jedi 1on1, they'd still have to re-balance them for gametypes like CTF, FFA, etc. It's incredibly complicated, and it'll leave alot of players out in the cold: i.e. the people who love full-force with guns, or no-force sabers, some of the same people who weren't fond of promod, except even more so.

O'course, some folks think no-force and full-force-guns is stupid, and shouldn't be included anyway. Less gametypes mean less division in the community, right? Wrong. If Raven designs force like they did in JO (and it looks like they will), alot of players are gonna hate it -- they'll make mods with no-force/full-force-guns, and because they're filling a need in the community, these mods will likely be very successful in dividing the community into bitter little pieces.

No, if Raven's gonna have any classes at all, they'll keep it simple: Jedi and Sith, and both can use any gun they want. I doubt they'll get rid of classes entirely as Spider suggests, as that would annoy yet more players, and you'd see yet another half-assed mod with the Jedi and Sith classes ripping up the community.

In any case, if Raven's going to add objective-based gametypes, I'm sure they'll design them like they always have: with all weapons/force powers. No jetpacks, no bounty hunters, nothing like that. Frankly I HOPE this is the case, because if they DO add jetpacks etc., it'll likely be half-assed and not well balanaced.... they just won't put enough time into getting it right, and it'll divide players even worse than in JO. I mean, after months of JO patches, Raven still couldn't even get the game's 2 classes - Jedi and Sith - balanced at the top competitive level (not that they tried hard -- Raven seemed more interested in how the game played at the n00b level). I don't blame Raven for their priorities, I just hope they don't try to tackle too much at once this time. My biggest fear is that Raven doesn't balance what gametypes they DO put in, adding features instead of fixes in patch after idiotic patch.... this is what hurt the JO community the most.

Anyways, I'd love to play an objective-based, class-based Star Wars FPS, with jetpacks and grappling hooks and all sorts of cool stuff. But I don't think Raven's gonna make the whole thing for us, or not done the way it should be. They're too busy with the singleplayer game, and even if they weren't they STILL have to live up to the expectations of many Dark Forces/JK fans who want full force with guns.

So.... if we want an objective-based, class-based game, some of us are gonna have to mod the whole thing ourselves. And on top of the daunting balance issues for such an endeavor, we'll probably have to make alot of completely new maps that take advantage of the new class abilities, cause Raven's vanilla maps, even if objective-based, will NOT have jetpacks in mind, among other things.

So I'd suggest you modders/mappers/whatevuh start conspiring together, planning your angle of attack, and get ready for a lot of work, if you want to see the above. Fortunately we already know alot of what's possible with the Quake3 engine, and no matter how many modding tools Raven keeps from us, it looks like they want to open up a little more with JA. So I doubt stuff like jetpacks would be difficult to recreate.
/rant off

Dear JKII.net forum members,
I'm new here. I've been browsing through your forums and found it rather interesting. I have some opinions about the new JK:JA.;) I would think that JA allows you to use a power called Force Levitation. You could raise any object you see and float it around. Then, you could Force Push it towards the enemy or something...Bah, I'm bad at describing!
:D Anyway, I'm looking forward to this game!

I just read the Jedi Academy webpage on Lucasarts.com. It doesn't really say who the bad guys or villians are in this. I assume since it says it happens right after Jedi Outcast then it still involves the remanent of the Empire. I hope it stills does. It would be so cool to fight Stormtroopers, Imperial Officers, Imperial Navy Troopers, Imperial Probe Droids, Garbage Compactor creature, different bounty hunter species, maybe even include Imperial Scout Troopers with their speeder bikes or Imperial Interrogator Droids. I notice the cool screenshot of the Rancor. I perrsonally want to see Wampas, mynock, Krayt Dragons, and other creatures from the original trilogy movies.

[Edit: My thinking on this is:

It is cool to be able to make your light sabers and customize your own Jedi and start out as padawan and learn your way up to Jedi Master, etc. But it doesn't make sense of they don't put a story in here with bad guys. The bad guys at the time after Jedi Outcast are still the Empire.[/Edit]

Admin Note: Try editing posts for future reference instead of double posting.

just curious, but why did you feel the need to make a whole new thread instead of just using the sticky at the top?

:D Can't wait for this game it's gonna be absoulutly awesome,the graphics are great , the whole game will rock it's just so cool :cool: and at last double sabers in single player !! :)

First of all, welcome to the forums, HaruGlory! :D

Have fun, and enjoy your stay :thumbsup:

*edit* Threads got merged - welcome to you too, Tesla Trooper! :) :D
Posted by HaruGlory89
I've been browsing through your forums and found it rather interesting. I have some opinions about the new JK:JA.;) I would think that JA allows you to use a power called Force Levitation. You could raise any object you see and float it around. Then, you could Force Push it towards the enemy or something...Bah, I'm bad at describing! :DThat would be interesting, but I don't think it would really be feasible to make a Force power like that which would actually be usable... I think it would be too fiddly... It might be fun to see a return of Force Throw from JK1, though - that was similar to what you described, and could work in JA :)
Anyway, I'm looking forward to this game! Glad to hear it - I think most of us are, too :D

While it's true that Empror Palpitine doe cakkle evilly in ROTJ there something reserved about his that there's not in the reborn. Maby it's that he not jumping aruond like a mexican juping bean with a hyperactivity problem(I hope they fix that it JK3). Anyway more myterious and deep and evil about Palpitine. Reborns are like stormtroores. No personality.
If you were paying attention in JK2 the entire story was about dark force injected warriers.

While it's true that Empror Palpitine doe cakkle evilly in ROTJ there something reserved about his that there's not in the reborn. Maby it's that he not jumping aruond like a mexican juping bean with a hyperactivity problem(I hope they fix that it JK3). Anyway more myterious and deep and evil about Palpitine. Reborns are like stormtroores. No personality.
BTW If any of you were paying attention in JK2 the entire story was about dark force injected warriers, so i guess Lucas deccred that it can be done and since he created it wat he says goes. (oops posted twice;i dont know how to delete)

well since i think that reborn are just stormtroopers enpowered with the force, then the above makes sense. btw, if you look at the image files for the imperial and reborn faces, they're almost exactly the same, with a shadow added on the reborn face.

actually boinga, i think the pic of the reborn with the new guy is just a comparison to how the details looked last year, and how they pale to the new details.. because the filename is called model comparison or something like that..not sure, because I am talking from a unit that is at a bowling alley here in ofallon, IL... just bowled a terrible 139... I average a 170 usually but I just had my ball re-drilled with new tips and spacing, so I had a learning experience to get used to the new feeling from the drilling

Has anyone found out what type of villians are in the Jedi Academy game coming out in Fall 2003?

Well, I didn't see any imperials (or remnant forces ;)) in the screens and I've read in an interview that your character faces some kind of evil organisation... And they happen to have lightsabers...

No mention of the remnant, I hate that. I hope it's not just this organisation you have to fight. It's ok to have an enemy beside the remnant, kinda like the organisation of count dooku, but please... PLEEEEASE make me fight stormies again! I love 'em!! :trooper:

the lack of Imperials will definately make the game less fun, but still... Some of the screens kinda reminds me of Komari Vosa's lair in bounty hunter for gc. I absolutely hated the last missions on that moon...

PLEEEEASE make me fight stormies again! I love 'em!!

Lets make a 'Stormies in JK: JA' petition right away... no seriously, I want to slize off Stormie helmets aswell, theyre star wars more than anything, except for Jedi's maybe.

Originally posted by boinga1
well since i think that reborn are just stormtroopers enpowered with the force, then the above makes sense. btw, if you look at the image files for the imperial and reborn faces, they're almost exactly the same, with a shadow added on the reborn face.

i was referring to JO. also i meant the image files in assests0.pk3 for JO. NOT JA!

I just want to post some of my earlier ideas, when the JKIII rumours started emerging around the end of January. ;)

Originally posted by Hиkx Nтxъ
Hopefully they'll add character customization for MP.
Make SP sabre combat either the same or similar to MP.
Kyle can either be a NPC or dead, and you can play as an apprentice or child of Kyle.
Manual blocking would be good, maybe a meter to control the force of deflecting.
I would like to see faster force regen / more force for Masters and less for Initiates.
Some RP elements would be nice.
SP should be more SW-like with the threat of the Darkside meaning you can fall to the Darkside.
If you do enough negative actions, your allignment will drop below average and eventually you will become a dark jedi.
Alternative endings.
Custom hilt creation / hilt selection.
Maybe some more sabre colours. (Silver / White / Light Blue)
Tons of other features I've heard people speak of, aswell as ones included in the JKIII poll. :) Here (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1002756#post1002756)'s) that really really old post. :D

Originally posted by Squater
the lack of Imperials will definately make the game less fun, but still... Some of the screens kinda reminds me of Komari Vosa's lair in bounty hunter for gc. I absolutely hated the last missions on that moon...



Lets make a 'Stormies in JK: JA' petition right away... no seriously, I want to slize off Stormie helmets aswell, theyre star wars more than anything, except for Jedi's maybe.


Done, I made a poll :) Cool huh ;) Vote here:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=96491)

Hey andy if u think that bowling score was bad i usualy get a 50. :)

I would say, that the lightsabre in the game is the best weapon ever seen... No other game has something like that and that is why so many players played it... the projectile weapons are ****, u can use in every other shooter or game weapons, but the sabre is something new :)
i love it and dont use anything else but th sabre...

Yes, the Emperor does laugh in RotJ, but he doesn't do it in the goofy
air-head sort of way the "reborn" do. There's a big difference. :)

And I also hope there will be remnant Imperial forces in JK III.

Oh, and in regards to the "reborn", they don't make any sense. You are either
strong with the force, or you are not. You have to keep in mind that the only
true canon in Star Wars is the movies themselves. Lots of silly things happen
in these various books and games, but it's not an issue, since only the movies
really count.

just to clarify on my last post:

i'm all for having guns in JK:JA, i just game some instances where guns would be warrented, to prove the point to ppl against guns being in the game. I love the guns in JK2 now, thanks to Artifex's PROmod :) bounty hunter rocks

also, the guy who posted the keydefs for my saber combat moves (sorry i forgot your name, was on the last page) thats pretty much what i was looking for, except the blocking moves will be activated by holding a button, ALT or something, instead of it being a toggle. And i agree with you totally that saber swings should be independant of how your body is moving, but thats a hell of a lot of keys to press...i once played this knights game (like dark ages knights) where you had sword combat and the whole numeric keypad was used purely for sword moves...thats when games didnt use mice, just the arrow keys..aaah those were the days, i cant remeber the last game i just used the arrow keys in...whoops off topic...loopy....its 2:30am here :)

anyway, those who didnt see my last post to know what im talkin about, go back one page. And if combat like this isnt in the final game, i will definitely put it in myself. wow deja-vu...

i really think there should be more fluid movments and animations, so it looks more realistic (to the films) and death anims are dead, bring on proper psysics

i was thinking (very bad thing for me to do :D ) will they let the community beta test or will be a bunch of mean :bdroid1: 's?

And i agree with you totally that saber swings should be independant of how your body is moving, but thats a hell of a lot of keys to press...

wouldn't it actually only ad 1 more key? since your combining a 2 button command into 1? instead or primary attack you have swing left, and instead of alt attack you have swing right, you just need 1 more attack for an overhead swing.No more starfeleft+primary attack, its just swing left, unless your on the move and fighting a group.

Yeah, I agree! It wouldn't be Jedi Knight without the stormtroopers. Hopefully, Imperial Remenant will be in the story. It would be stupid if you just fought Dark Jedi or Sith and Bounty Hunters throughout the game. I hope it isn't a criminal organization either.

Strange how some of you wanted the new Jedi Knight game to take place during the New Jedi Order, even though I hadn't read the books, its my understandings that it has nothing to do with the Imperials, but instead the Yuuzhan Vong. So, now you guys are wanting back the Stormtroopers... Well, I don't care who I fight. Just another tally mark in my book

the ONLY thing i dont want JA to be is JUST like JO, i want sumthing fresh and exciting