Thank you so much, Psyko.
Edit: I just tried the rifle, and it looks great. In single player, there is a problem right in front of where one of the hands goes. It's like it's missing. also, the rifle seems a bit thin. I'm not sure if that's how it is really or not, but to me it seems a little thin.
Edit2: On another note..have you talked to anyone about Zam's sounds? Like I suggested earlier, perhaps someone can bring up their ps2 Bounty Hunter game and take sounds from there, since she has quite a bit of vocab. A LOT more than in Episode II.
And also. Have you thought about your next model?
My personal preference would be the X-Man; Gambit.
I have absolutely tons of reference material for him, and there are tons of different model ideas...different variations..a lot of very kickass stuff that you could do with a Gambit model.
Originally posted by Psyk0Sith
Zam's rifle is available at jk2!
http://www.jk2files.com/file.info?ID=9261)
Thanks for the post (both of em). You beat me to it.;)
Mars out!
Originally posted by Lord Tnuc
Thank you so much, Psyko.
Edit: I just tried the rifle, and it looks great. In single player, there is a problem right in front of where one of the hands goes. It's like it's missing. also, the rifle seems a bit thin.
Edit2: On another note..have you talked to anyone about Zam's sounds? Have you thought about your next model?
My personal preference would be the X-Man; Gambit.
Comment Uno: I'm glad you like it (since it was your idea). I'll take another look at it, I never really considered its width since there are no good front profile photos. I just modeled it using my own memories of the rifle that its based on (the older flint locks used during british american war). They are almost as thin as they are in the side profile, but I'll give it a look.
Comment Dos: Well... I just watched the movie again (for about the 150th time) and I definately want to use the rifle sounds. They are just too cool to not use, plus the fire effects are awsome. I'll except any help to get these sounds. I can tape the sounds directly off the DVD, but have no good way to get em onto the PC (other than the mic). Please anyone who can get em, let us know here on this thread.
Comment Tres: I am thinking about Adi Gallia for my next model. I guess the whole star wars theme is about all I think about these days, but I do love comics (since I used to actually work as a freelance comic artist). Gambit is cool.
Heres the link to my old comic site
http://hometown.aol.com/NeoMarz1/box/page1.htm)
Mars out!
Originally posted by NeoMarz1
I am thinking about Adi Gallia for my next model. that would be cool marz. i cant wait for this or any other models you release you are doing great.
With the sounds, I actually meant Zam herself, not her rifle. The Bounty Hunter game has some excellent Zam Wessel sounds. Nice choice on next models, by the way. Perhaps, in doing so, you could also figure out a new saber style, where you hold the saber backwards. Not so much changing animations, just turning the saber around? I'm not sure how it would be done. But like in Jedi Power Battles, she weilded her lightsaber held backwards. Perhaps, you could edit a tag(?) or perhaps an idle stance to make the lightsaber held backwards.
Perhaps, with Zam...some ideas for alternate skins, you could turn some surfs off and have some of her costume off. I'm not talking about stripping her, I'm talking about perhaps a piece of armor would be taken off. Or perhaps, skin it so that it looks like she's wearing something else.
Whoa this thread moves fast :)
Double edges shouldn't be too much of a problem, not as bad as double vertices (weighing becomes frustrating). If you really want to get rid oft them though (save before you try) select the edge in question and just remove it. Normally, if it's anything like I experienced before, one of the edges will remove the polygon that it was associated with (the face) the other will not. It's a little tricky to get the right unwanted edge. Yea, I'm quite a perfectionist when if comes to models and really like to have no STL errors whatsoever (besides where they should be like the edges of the segment). :)
If you want a pretty good idea of where the bones should fall, you should try taking a peek at some of the XSI files raven has released (you are using 3ds max and have the plugin right?) The files will show you the ideal positions of the bones. Like psyko said, you don't have to adhere to it precisely, but cetrain parts and things are quite sensitive. I'll make a short paragraph pf the problems I had with alignment before.
Head: Not much of a problem as long as you weigh the majority of the head mesh to the cranium. The face bones that you see sticking out can be left for last and are only needed if you are going to make an SP version of your model. The face does not animate in MP, and can be left out for ONLY MP models.
Torso/Shoulders: My first problems came here. Ry to make sure the joint where the clavical meets the arm bone (forgot which one) is quite central to where the shoulder of your mesh is. The Raven animations are a little buggy on the shoulders for some movements like the backstab and some swings will look pretty bad if the mesh is not well aligned.
Arms/Hands: pretty much the same... I would take care in aligning the elbow joint and making sure the bones run straight through the middle of the arm mesh. For simplicity's sake, you can weigh all of the hand mesh to the hand bone initially to get your model in game faster, then go back one you have tweaked out the major bugs and add the finger bones. I allways weigh the finger and face bones last, and only after having worked out all the other weight bugs in the mesh.
Hips/Legs: Very simlar to the arms. The hips can be troublesome depending on how high your hip is according to the pelvis. It will be trial and error and you probably will adjust your mesh a little when you are debugging the hip later on. The hip can be weighed mainly ot the pelvis, but it might look better if the lower lumbar comes into play, depending on where the hips end.
Well, that was a long post. Hope something there is helpful. :)
marz, why are you so good at everything? Adi Gallia sounds like a great model, if all the other WIPs here get done, then we'd have most of the jedi council for gameplay. Haven't tried the rifle yet, gonna go get it now.
whohooo, got the rifle and it ROCKS go marz!
Mars for counting the polygons : select the mesh of your model go to the utilities panel (on the right) and there's a button "number of polygon" and there it is :)
for the double edge i don't know if i have well understanding what you mean but you can try this (save before) select the points on one extremity of the 2 edges, make an edit mesh scroll down find the section weld or join (or something like this i have max in french so i don't know the name in english) in the case next selection enter a big value (like 250) and then click on selection. Normally the 2 points will be 1 point now :) make the same with the 2 other spoints and the double edge will be a simple edge (it's important for the smooth)
For the weighting before you begun i suggest you to see if your polygons are not invert select a part of your mesh go to the panel utilities/restore transformation and then click reinitialize selection go to modify panel right click on transf. and select retract on. If nothing happen it's good if the polygon of your mesh is invert make an edit mesh select all the polygon and invert them. If you make this after the weighting and it's not good you will have to reweight the mesh
Like ksk h2o said see what proportion raven give to there model so you align your model on these. For the facial animation make it at the end, it's easy to do. For the others parts i suggest to you to open some existant model in modview, go in the view menu and select "showing vert index ..." , then on the right of the model click on the + next model.glm, surface and here left click on the part you want to see to highlight it,after right click on the name of the part select info and tape on return
normally it will open you a wordpad windows with all the weighting info of the part (points per points)you have select. See how it's make and try to make the same. It's like that I have learn to weight the points
If you have another question i'll be here
Another suggestion make the skin before you weight the points. in that way you can see in modview if the model move well or not and for you it will not take to much time :D
Originally posted by ksk h2o
The face bones that you see sticking out can be left for last and are only needed if you are going to make an SP version of your model. The face does not animate in MP, and can be left out for ONLY MP models.
Face is animated in MP, only that its hard to see.
BTW: Great Model!
Wow Mooa, you actually said something about mod view which I didn't know... It sure would have made my life easier had I known that but hey. Learned the hard way.
Payne, I'm surprised to hear that the face is animated in MP. I have positioned the camera smack on the face and never saw lips/jaw move on default meshes... strange... what sequences did you see animate the face? :)
Originally posted by ksk h2o
Wow Mooa, you actually said something about mod view which I didn't know... It sure would have made my life easier had I known that but hey. Learned the hard way.
Payne, I'm surprised to hear that the face is animated in MP. I have positioned the camera smack on the face and never saw lips/jaw move on default meshes... strange... what sequences did you see animate the face? :) I'm happy if i can help you :D
In Mp i'm not sure that all the facial bone is use I think there's just the jaw bone that is used and so it's seems that we have facial animation but i'm not sure. We can see the jaw move on the taunt action
GOOOOOOD JOB neomarz, your stepping up and my skinning master is now a madler and you stuck to your first idea to, Zam Weasel.
by the way Howd you learn to model so fast and so well
If you have the geometrical detail on low and wait a while you will find this:
http://jedimasterpayne.netfirms.com/shot0098.jpg)
On Hi-res will look better.
Originally posted by Master_Payne
If you have the geometrical detail on low and wait a while you will find this:
http://jedimasterpayne.netfirms.com/shot0098.jpg)
On Hi-res will look better.
Man that's scary, Kyle looks like a zombie! :D
sorry for being off topic...
Originally posted by Boss
GOOOOOOD JOB neomarz, your stepping up and my skinning master is now a madler and you stuck to your first idea to, Zam Weasel.
by the way Howd you learn to model so fast and so well
Well... It looks good, but I got some bugs to work out. Modeling is more or less sculpture, and Ive done all kinds of sculpture. I actually wanted to be a prop designer when I was in highschool. I started out by making props for these silly sci-fi films... I painted/sculpted in college (for 1 year), went into comics for about 10 years, then web design.... Hmmm where am I going with this. I guess what I'm trying to say is, all that stuff made it a little easier to model.:D Mars out!
Where does the model stand right now? Well... I decided to hold off on the weighting this weekend. I think the model still needs more work, so I'm going to spend a lot of time making sure it's gonna fit the skelaton just right! Tommarow I'm gonna get a Polygon count, so you guys can give me some feed back. Let me know if I'm going overboard. The arms and legs are low on polygons, so I may actually model the gloves and boots. Mars out!
the thought of a model like this with creator who can skin like you, Marz...geez, it's just plain old scary!
Maybe you should temporarily post various screenies with the skeleton viewable and the mesh set to see-through, it might help get some feedback on the positioning.
:D
Originally posted by ksk h2o
Maybe you should temporarily post various screenies with the skeleton viewable and the mesh set to see-through, it might help get some feedback on the positioning.
:D
I will definately do that. I'll also put tags on it to address the areas of my concern. Mars out!
Okay. I've been thinking about this idea for quite some time. I'm not sure if it's possible, but hear it out to the end. A rocket launcher/jetpack conversion. Basically...the same way you change the positions of the animations of the saber stances...could someone perhaps create a rocket launcher that you basically have nothing in your hands...but then once you hit the fire button, the animation causes you to crouch, with the rocket positioned on the back, so that it would be like it was coming out of the jetpack. I'm not talking about coding in a crouch, I'm talking about changing the "stance" from the "recoil"(?) so that instead of recoiling, it could just crouch, and it'd fire. Possible? I think so.
Originally posted by ksk h2o
Maybe you should temporarily post various screenies with the skeleton viewable and the mesh set to see-through, it might help get some feedback on the positioning.
:D
Hey man! I just sent the pics to you. The model is not segmented right, but it will give you an idea. Soon as you post em Ill explain. I got a lot of questions. Mars out!
Ok, here we go. I got some pics here, and a load of questions. Ksk h2o answered a lot of em, but I'm gonna post these anyhow.
Let's start with this one...
www.talocan.net/mars/zamdecon1.jpg)
My question here is this, I am way over polys on both the head and helmet. H20, tells me to stay within the 500 Vertices limit. 1st, is there a vertices counter?
2nd, I really wanted to keep the helmet separate. For one thing, if I combine those, I will then need to deal with over 1200 polys. What do you all think I should do here?
Next...(with listed Poly counts)
www.talocan.net/mars/zamdecon2.jpg)
If you look on the left you will see the tail skirt. I made it thick, should I have made it a single plane? Should it be separate from the hips? Is it easy enough to keep separate (If we go that route)?
If you look on the right side you'll see the Hoses, and Belt buckle... My question here is this, Should those parts be welded to the torso (my concern here is for making the skin maps), or can they be grouped? I guess another question is this, Can you even use the "Grouping method" to associate items with say... the Torso?
(just for Poly counts)
www.talocan.net/mars/zamdecon3.jpg)
No question here really.
www.talocan.net/mars/zamdecon4.jpg)
The helmet is separated in a lot of bits. Again the same question as above. Should it be welded or grouped? If I do weld it, will it cause problems when I start mapping?
Well, thats my questions... Next I will send a screenie showing the skelaton alighnment. Thanks everyone, Mars out!
The 500 vertex limit is per object. You could have your head in three or four objects if you are going to be above 500 vertices. My homer model will have the head as Head, Head_eyes, and Head_mouth to deal with this.
500 vertices is a LOT. There is a mini counting plugin for max.
TINY COUNTER works very well. I just select the object, then select edit mesh, vertex and press Q for the vertice count once the plugin is installed.
Get it here:
http://www.3dcafe.com/asp/software4.asp)
Originally posted by NeoMarz1
[B]Ok, here we go. I got some pics here, and a load of questions. Ksk h2o answered a lot of em, but I'm gonna post these anyhow.
Let's start with this one...
www.talocan.net/mars/zamdecon1.jpg)
My question here is this, I am way over polys on both the head and helmet. H20, tells me to stay within the 500 Vertices limit. 1st, is there a vertices counter?
2nd, I really wanted to keep the helmet separate. For one thing, if I combine those, I will then need to deal with over 1200 polys. What do you all think I should do here?
I definitively love the head and the helmet :)
Yes you must keep the helmet and the head separate because in this way you can add a non-helmet version. For the question of hierarchy sapcermonkey tutorial is very very good. In your case i think you will have :
head
head_eyes_mouth
head_augment_off
head_helmet
For your polycount, the head can be reduced: the top of the head is not see so you can detach the polygons which were under the helmet. It depends if you want to make a non-helmet version. If you don't want you can delete the polygons. But if you want to detach the polygons i suggest you 1 things : make the uvmapping, the skin and the final weighting and after make an edit mesh select the polygons you want to detach, save a copy of the file, go in the file/fusion and select the first copy select the the part you want to detach polygons, rename it in the new name part (like head_augment_off or something like this). On the head delete the polygons you have select and on the head_augment_off invert the selection of the polygon and delete.
So in this way the uvmap don't need to be adjust to the other part, the weighting too, the only bad thing is that in your file you will have each bone you use for this part duplicate.
For the polycount don't worry my mon calamari model have first over 700 polygons for the head and it works fine
Originally posted by NeoMarz1
Next...(with listed Poly counts)
www.talocan.net/mars/zamdecon2.jpg)
If you look on the left you will see the tail skirt. I made it thick, should I have made it a single plane? Should it be separate from the hips? Is it easy enough to keep separate (If we go that route)?
If you look on the right side you'll see the Hoses, and Belt buckle... My question here is this, Should those parts be welded to the torso (my concern here is for making the skin maps), or can they be grouped? I guess another question is this, Can you even use the "Grouping method" to associate items with say... the Torso? Well i have make the polycount and you have about 2500 polygons, but you don't put the polycount of the arm. The arm will be ok like this, the torso can have much polygons, the hips too (in the pelvis area), the skirt is better thick then just a plan otherwise in some point of view she will looks like she has no skirt (in the back). The boots may have many more polygons i think.
For the belt and hoses keep them separate (i think you should the more thing you can separate)
Originally posted by NeoMarz1
www.talocan.net/mars/zamdecon4.jpg)
The helmet is separated in a lot of bits. Again the same question as above. Should it be welded or grouped? If I do weld it, will it cause problems when I start mapping?
Well, thats my questions... Next I will send a screenie showing the skelaton alighnment. Thanks everyone, Mars out! For the helmet, if you have separate you can make first the uvmap for each part and after select the bigger part make an edit mesh and attach the other parts.
And never group the part the game will not recognize it, you can only use the attach function or to tie the child part with the parent part
And can't wait to see the next screenie
Originally posted by moooa
For the helmet, if you have separate you can make first the uvmap for each part and after select the bigger part make an edit mesh and attach the other parts.
And never group the part the game will not recognize it, you can only use the attach function or to tie the child part with the parent part
And can't wait to see the next screenie
Thanks, I was waiting for someone to answer my questions. I may need your help in weighting (if your not busy). I am struggling with UV mapping right now... "What? A skinner who doesn't know how to map?". You heard me right. It's embarrasing to admit, but true! Its driving me nuts. I know it will be simple once I figure it out (just like modeling). I'm trying to get info from you guys in such a way that its not too much, so bare with me.
Moooa, If you could... send me your e-mail. I'm at neomarz1@sbcglobal.net , Mars out!
I think you could clean up the face some, reduce the back of the head a little. I see some 5 point polys in the face, you should avoid that.
here's something I might do to clean it up
http://www.geocities.com/joltsone/wfr.txt)
Originally posted by Jolts
I think you could clean up the face some, reduce the back of the head a little. I see some 5 point polys in the face, you should avoid that.
here's something I might do to clean it up
http://www.geocities.com/joltsone/wfr.txt)
Yeah, a lot of the lines you put in make a lot of sense. I will certainly consider your comments. What problems do you see with the 5 point poly's. I think I know where your coming from, just wanted to hear what your thoughts were. Mars out!
they will screw with your textures and deformation. If you plan on having facial animation you want to keep your line network running smooth, some people find it easie to model in quads, then triangulate at the end. The way you have it right now will look odd when the mouth opens, put a jaw bone in and try moving it around and you'll see.
Jo facial animation is pretty weak, so I wouldn't worry it about too much for this model, but if you plan on doing models for other games with facial animation like unreal 2, you really should watch your topology.
http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/max/viking/main2.asp)
http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/max/joanofarc/joanmenu.asp)
Originally posted by Jolts
they will screw with your textures and deformation. If you plan on having facial animation you want to keep your line network running smooth, some people find it easie to model in quads, then triangulate at the end. The way you have it right now will look odd when the mouth opens, put a jaw bone in and try moving it around and you'll see.
Jo facial animation is pretty weak, so I wouldn't worry it about too much for this model, but if you plan on doing models for other games with facial animation like unreal 2, you really should watch your topology.
http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/max/viking/main2.asp)
http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/max/joanofarc/joanmenu.asp)
Awesome links, Best advice Ive gotten. Thanks a million Jolts!!!!:D It's awsome getting advice from the Jolts;) Mars out!
This is to help with fixing the rifle, Mister Marz.
http://www.boomspeed.com/tnucrojam/idle.jpg)
http://www.boomspeed.com/tnucrojam/Firing.jpg)
When held, the rifle has the appearance of the first shot...but once you shoot, the recoil pushes the barrel backwards, filling the void.
Originally posted by Lord Tnuc
This is to help with fixing the rifle, Mister Marz.
When held, the rifle has the appearance of the first shot...but once you shoot, the recoil pushes the barrel backwards, filling the void.
We are looking into the bug... Next weekend I'll try to give some feedback.
By the way both sites (Jediknight2, and Jk2files) now have the rifle for download. Mars out!
So where are we on Zam now?
Currently I'm battling with model fatique. I had to take a break, but tonight I should be back on the horse. I'm still making sure the model is lined up right, Psyko was working on skelaton bugs. I could have used the skelaton in Raven files, but he had one pretty much ready to use. I actually started modeling the Clawdite head. I dont know if we'll use it, but who knows;) I decided that the legs needed more work. I actually reworked the arms to have gloves. All and all it's moving along. Just a bit slow, since I'm moving more and more into the unknown. Mars out! By the way check out Psyko's new site!
http://www3.sympatico.ca/psykopat/)
oh marz...on the topic of your next model...you or someone else needs to do a Padme Ep1 from the hangar fight and all. I can't believe the epii has been out so long and no one's done it!
I think Marz is doing Adi Gallia next.
Hi NeoMarz. I managed to make a reskin of your anakin which was included in the ep1_obi model pk3. I must apologize however, cause I submitted the first version I did and it got posted on one of the jedi outcast sites:( I was wonderin if I could get your official approval to post my second version of the reskin. Thank-you for your time friend.
I could be wrong, but I don't think NeoMarz had anything to do with the Obi-Wan model. That was Toonces and Arco.
Originally posted by Classic Luke
Hi NeoMarz. I managed to make a reskin of your anakin which was included in the ep1_obi model pk3. I must apologize however, cause I submitted the first version I did and it got posted on one of the jedi outcast sites:( I was wonderin if I could get your official approval to post my second version of the reskin. Thank-you for your time friend.
Sure, You can do that. I kinda rushed him anyhow, so it's no big deal. My intentions was to do another, but I'm on this project now. Thanks for asking. Mars out!
Originally posted by Lord Tnuc
I could be wrong, but I don't think NeoMarz had anything to do with the Obi-Wan model. That was Toonces and Arco.
No he's right I did do several varients that were included alongside Arcos work. It was a fun model to work on. I actually did A version of his Mace Windu as well. I was going to do the Qui Gon model, but I got into this model. I may still skin him later on. Mars out!
Originally posted by Matt Shoemaker
I think Marz is doing Adi Gallia next.
Yes I am, but I may also do Trebor Coleman. I may get someone one to help me out, so I can do both. Mars out!
Thank you much for your permission Neo!
BtW, it is about time someone made Zam! Keep up the GREAT WORK!
Originally posted by NeoMarz1
Yes I am, but I may also do Trebor Coleman. I may get someone one to help me out, so I can do both. Mars out!
I've actually been working on Trebor for a little while now, so you can do Gallia first at least.
Originally posted by Matt Shoemaker
I've actually been working on Trebor for a little while now, so you can do Gallia first at least.
Really?, you got a link. Mars out
You could always take my suggestion and work on a Gambit player model. ;) Joking, but hey, not like I'd mind, eh?
Ooh, cool.
Love your rifle.
Originally posted by Matt Shoemaker
I've sent you a PM Marz.
Not bad! Not bad at all! Mars out!