Actually I think that the center of the problem is not FoC's ZC but the way E@W handles income for AIs, which does not depend on any income generating facility like the players, in other words, CHEATED INCOME. As we know it the computer seems to be able to bring in ships like they are free, and have little to no production time sometimes.

Now being Imps or Rebels this might be ok, as even the rebels have a somewhat rigid line of terratory, and both of them have a relatively balanced space force with similar cost. So even as the income is cheated, things can be managed due to population cap and what not. Even then many players have faced legions of speceforce not possable by ordinary means of production.

The ZC however is different in that they have more powerful ships, which is being balanced by their COST. Now add this to the computer's way of generating income this can be downright wicked. The ZC brings the problem to surface, rather than being the cause of the problem.

I mean, in skirmish where the corruption money is hardly in effect the ZC is still vastly more powerful in the hands of the AI dur to their INCOME more than anything else, as shown by the examples above. My own experiance is only similar, where the computer brings in a constant stream of ships despite one destroyed depot which is sometimes even destroyed.

I don't think nerfing ZC is the solution. ZC's design is supposed to be a bit more powerful ship to ship, being more elite in terms of individual.

Its shelved until PG fix this crap.

I just did the same thing :P. Bought FoC today, played a GC as the Rebels, got majorly annoyed with the huge amounts of bugs and the seriously FUBARed Zann special abilities. I didn't even finish the game, I quit with just 5 planets left to capture. Removed the disc from the drive, put it back into the box and put it on a shelf until a patch is released.

Some things I noticed from playing that one single GC are:
No matter how fast I remove corruption from my planets, Zann corrupts them even faster. A game of cat and mouse ensues after a while.
I owned the world of Dathomir right from the start. Zann corrupted it and somehow put a fleet in orbit without the game asking if I wanted to fight it (as I had a station at level 5 + a defence fleet in orbit). I moved an assault fleet into position to attack the enemy fleet and ended up fighting the enemy fleet plus my own level 5 station.
Zann level 4-5 stations are massively over powered compared to Rebel and Imperial stations.
Auto resolve is MAJORLY f'ed up. I had one situation where I took a fleet against a level 4 Zann station, auto resolved and has zero losses. Took the same fleet against a level 5 Zann station and lost half my fleet (which was massive btw).
Rebels can't get tech for any level 5 items (B-wing and MC30), I assume this is down to the devs forgetting that they programmed Rebels not to go past level 4 in the original game and not changing it for FoC.
I stole some tech for some ground unit but was never able to build it. I hate ground combat so it didn't really matter to me, but still it should be there.
The Empire did absolutely nothing until the very end. I left a few worlds on their border unguarded whle chasing down Zann which they stole.
The Ai for the sides is totally out of whack. I was playing on Easy (as is tradition with a new game, play on easy so you can get the feel then yank it up to hard) and the Empire still had the original game Ai for easy so they didn't build anything bigger than a Victory class. Zann on the other hand built everything and in large numbers. I was regularly fending off his best stuff. I think the only reason the Empire Ai survived the battle was because I took the fight to Zann right from the word go.
Sabotage..........god I hate sabotage. It was going off constantly, and most of the time it was 4 or more going off at once. No human can set off more than 1 at the same time in two different places on a map so the Ai shouldn't be able to either. Plus it is really really pathetic. It does nothing to me other than be an annoying feature. The Ai doesn't use it as a softening up job just before an invasion, it just does it randomly around the map to piss me off.
Win conditions are f'ed up. I killed Zann around 13 times total. Lord knows how many times I killed the rest of his crew. I also killed the Emperor 4 times. As I thought I wasn't winning due to killing them in auto-resolve, I actually fought 1 of the battles against the Emperor. I caught him at Kuat cruising around in a Tartan. Went on the map, the pilot guy says that this is an opportunity we can't miss to take out the Emperor and win.....kill the Emperor.......nothing happens. I never captured all the planets to find out if that was how I was supposed to win as I quit after realising that Zann could cheat.
Zann cheats :P. I cornered his organisations on their last 2 worlds up in the top corner of the map. There was zero way for him to escape...........then suddenly he has control of one of my heavily fortified worlds in the centre of the map. WTF!? There was nothing saying the world was being taken, nothing about whether I wanted to auto-resolve the battle or anything. The world had a level 5 station and fleet, plus was defended on the ground too (so no sneaky raids). There wasn't even any corruption left on the map, other than the 2 worlds I had trapped the ZC on, so he couldn't have snuck there via the corruption lines.

Edit:
Some things people have said needs fixing that I don't think need fixing......the militia rebellion and the strengths of the Zann space units. Militia rebellion is just an annoyance. While I wish there was some way to prevent it, in the end it doesn't do anything but bug me. None of the worlds that Zann kicked me off were anywhere near his stuff for him to take. Plus I just took them back in a split second anyway.
Space unit balance is just about right. Granted level 4 and 5 Zann stations are way too powerful compared to Rebel and Imperial ones, but that is a station and not a unit. I could fend Zann off quite happily with limited forces, no matter what he threw at me. Things got bigger and bigger and I just had to develop new tricks to deal with them. I only lost a world to an invasion once and that was just bad timing (as I had taken some of the world defence to bolster an assault fleet moving to take one of his worlds :P).

Its shelved until PG fix this crap.

I was really psyched to go out and buy this game on the weekend, but posts like that made me hold off. I think it's good this community tells it like it is, a great deal of this feedback seems sincere rather than normal forum whining.

I guess it's just disappointing that, at the end of the day, this expansion was seriously rushed.

I may not end up buying FoC for a long time, if it lacks so much polish.

I don't think it's going to take too too long for PG to get a patch out >_> a few weeks, a month or two maybe at high.

Yeah there are some bugs in the story campaign like the rebel tech 5 issue. That and other little nicks and nacks are going to be patched as stated in the Petro forums.

However, some of the things listed here and by other players like the corruption getting on their nerves etc.. are actual game functions(and some are beneficial in ways) and are not going to change.

There is no way the game was rushed and that becomes apparent in the story campaign. This is a game of MANY favors like a neoploitian ice cream sandwich. It so happens that the favorite flavor of the many is space multiplayer from the Imps or Rebs side. It happens that flavor needs a separate amount and different balance that singleplayer vs the AI. It is also understandable that seeing your side get bested by the new faction is annoying. The other aspect of the game(ie other flavors) are superb. GC with 3 factions with 55 planets can't be touched it rocks!

However, even with some tweaks that "are" coming like toning down the Starvipers a bit and making the cost of the BM upgrades MUCH more expensive for the ZC, there is still going to be a LARGE amount of that guerilla warfare(ie. sabtoage, corruption) to deal with because both the rebels and the ZC have that as one of their strengths.

The game is FAR from broke in GC and land skirmish FAR. Of course I enjoy these flavors and have spent tons of time since the release consuming as much of the good thing as possible.

The fact that many sound files are incorrect, the Consortium can build capital ships anywhere in certain modes, Rebel tech glitch, etc. These are symptoms of a larger problem: rushed game design.

Also, not having many bugs in a short campaign mode - the most linear of all the modes - further demonstrates that this is a lack of polish.

I have no doubt PG could fix these, but if they were rushed to a quick deadline these sloppy mistakes get made. (KOTOR II, anyone?)

The idea that that this complaining is because people think the Consortium shouldn't be a powerful faction is a pretty shallow one IMO.

Truthfully, you sound like you don't have the game dude, so I understand some of the uninformed things you are saying. No worries.

In terms of looking at the campaign(of course you would need to have the game to notice these things), the "overal" polish "is" there nick nacks aside. Some of those cut scenes in and in-between missions show it as well as how well the single player GC and land skirmish actually play out.

Actually the two things you mentioned are basically syntax errors that are easy to fix with notepad and have already been changed by one of the guys in the modders forum. Ok, so they were sloppy yadda yadda :smash:

I never said nor implied that the only complaints were because of the ZC's power. However, all you have to do is open your eyes and read the comments where many regular imp and reb players have stated that the ZC should be the weakest of all, it is there in the public domain. :)

Thanks for these suggestions, I will definitely have our designers check this out :)

Thanks SageKing its good to know PG is on top of it, and that you guys are also listening to all the feedback, positive and negative. I will admit I can be a hard and nasty jerk sometimes, and while generally very passive when I go off I can make Palpatine look like a school girl BUT I know that this game is very good and is not far from being perfect AND can be easily fixed. After all the hard work and great ideas that went into this game I do not want to see it flop or not satisfy its legion of fans....so never take my rages personal. Im just frustrated that some fairly obvious issues werent spotted before.

As I stated today in the consortium heroes thread I dont have a problem with ZC having the nastiest stuff as long as its outnumbered and expensive. My main gripe is with skirmish but I can see how some people feel about GC. I have only played a short campaign and would really need to play a longer one to really see what people are experiencing but I would hope that the funky way the ZC operates is not totally abandoned. Thats the heart and soul of the faction.

Ok, found a bug :) Not, just an omission. :freakout:

I was adding Mandalorian Bio-Commandos :clap2: to the ZC and I remembered that when I corrupted Mon Calamari and took the slavery option no slaves became avaliable like on other planets like the Twei'lks etc.

I use the special corruption units file to add my stuff and saw there is NO entry for Mon Calamari slaves eventhough you pay for slavery option in game. So of course I just added them in, because their is an indigenous model for them in the game already.

Another oversite by the Petro team, they should all be drawn and quarted :halo2:

If there is a wide variety of small bugs in any area of the game I would say that's a lack of polish. Whether or not it can be fixed by the user is irrelevant.

I said that the campaign is polished by all reports, however this is something that would be tested first, and can be tested far more quickly. It is easier to control than a fully open scenario (GC) after all. It's the multiplayer, and more 'minor' modes - skirmish - that have been the subject of gripes by large sections of the community.

The fact that small, easily fixed bugs make it through to retail is a lack of testing, almost always due to time constraints. I honestly don't think petro are sloppy; rather they were rushed. You don't see these sort of things en masse in a Blizzard game, because they always delay release until they are certain of quality. Maybe petro don't have this luxury yet, I don't know.

All up, Petro are very good in working with the community, and they'll fix up these things fairly soon. I'll just hold off buying FoC until this is done, so I can play a finalised product.

EDIT: The above is kinda OT, sorry guys. In other news, one of the devs over at the Petroglyph Forums (Delphi) has said the patch notes will be coming "in the next week or so". :)

Hard to take a person seriously about something they don't have any personal experience with and only read about, but they know all about it, yeah right ok. When you get the game make sure to report all the little bugs you read about here :compcry:

good idea.

The campaign itself is fine and rarely glitchy (except for that one part but fortunately I did not get the glitch as I play it)

Many of the mistakes are simple xml stuff.

I think the only true big mistake is the whole tech-up problem with Rebel, but no doubt it would be fixed in the patch.

And, we all know that the whole auto-resolve thing is really unreliable and random, so its kinda meaningless to whine about it. I mean, if you want some assurance just throw the game on fast and let your whole fleet rush the target, you will probably do better than auto-resolve most of the time if you have a big fleet.

The AI doesnt build any turbolaser tower or shields would be nice if the will so conquering a planet will be more of a challenge :mad:

well to be onest. i like all factions, and ssd'd arnt that tough, the lusankya was taken out by a couple of imp star deuces and some freighters........... to be onest as long as you compile a force to cover all angles youll live. for instance the fighters and bombers, just send lots of tartans, you may loose them against there cap ships but then you jump in yours. as far as i c it, you have to make some sacrifices and make sure you have a strong force covering all posible oponnent compositions


thats my view but flame me if you feel you need to

Now my rage has settled a few other things to point out for PG:
* I hear they are already going to tone down the StarViper. Good. Its faster and more manueverable than an Interceptor, tougher than an Xwing, and has a nasty special ability. They are tough enough to withstand a pass by a corvette whereas other starfighters get shredded.
*I would SERIOUSLY be looking at the cost of Keldabe capital ship. They seem a tad cheap and need to be more expensive. Two of these drained the shields on a lvl 4/5 station in mere seconds and they have more weaponry than either and ISD or MC (4 TL, 2 IC, a special weapon an mass driver), with a backup engine hardpoint. These ships are simply awesome. Should be about 6K in skirmish.
*Before I went on strike I played origins of corruption GC. When i played as the Empire I captured a planet off the ZC and when it returned to the galactic screen my two units (Fett and Emperor) who participated in the battle were no longer visible or selectable, nor did the planet change from ZC control to Empire control. I loaded a save game and replayed the mission and I received 2 Fetts! (Got a screenshot of it) However once the battle was over the Fett clone disappeared.

ok i just noticed something. vaders ssd doesnt take up unit pop, is that ment to happen? also when he is in ground combat he takes up 2 spaces, where as the emporer and other heros take 1, is this a bug or is it suppose to happen? and has anyone else noticed this?

in the planets where bribe? (dunno the name in english) the one who dont allow to produce garrison units well the space station of the consortium didnt produce fighters the ISD's didnt produce TIEs....dunno if its intended btw the juggernaut is pretty weak a misile tower of the consortium can kill a juggernaut even when the point laser defense systems are activated...so is useless

I've noticed my units have a habit of getting stuck at points. For example in GC on Bothawai, Yoda was destroying a Consortium bunker but after destroying it, would not move. He was stuck in that spot. Then last night the same thing happened in Skirmish on Felucia. The water by the imperial base, Obi-Wan got stuck. Luckily I was able to land a gallofree near him and airlift him out. But then yoda did the same thing, and I mistakenly sent in Garm and they BOTH got stuck.

This happened in EAW as well when Vader was by a buildpad.

Not a bug, and not even sure is possible to "patch" into the game, but veterancy to units.

Feel free to read up on my 1.06 recommendation

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=168137)

Grr... 30 second wait but still posted.

*edit deleted double post*

I've noticed my units have a habit of getting stuck at points.

Yes I have noticed on some maps, not only units, but whole groups of the local population are stuck even though their animation has them running. I cant remember which maps now but this during Origins of Corruption GC.

I take back my earlier comment about never seeing the hypervolcity gun in a GC game. I attacked Corellia and it was used against me. :)

I'm not sure if this was a bug, but I'm sick of this business when you clear corruption from a world and destroys your space station and all structures. That was silly.

And I'd like some E-Wings and K-Wings - X-Wings get eaten alive by the hundereds of new imperial fighters and the B-Wings are virtually useless. I'm still using Y-Wings because at least they cost less.

Oh yeah, and I would like an end to the tired old "10 ISDs" invasion fleets that the Empire keep pulling. After half an hour of play in GC, Yavin 4 was attacked by a fleet that was made upf of Piett's and Thrawn's ISDs, the Arc Hammer and 8 vanilla ISDs AT THE SAME TIME. Come on petro, this is supposed to be a game, i.e. there is some chance of winning......

Bleh, I think I'll go off and play Dark Crusade. At least Relic are familiar with the concept of 'balance'.

Wowee, I hope the patch is released on the 21st or soon after.

BTW welcome to the forums, TearsOfIsha! :)

Wowee, I hope the patch is released on the 21st or soon after.

BTW welcome to the forums, TearsOfIsha! :)

Thank you, hello to you :)

I'm not sure if this was a bug, but I'm sick of this business when you clear corruption from a world and destroys your space station and all structures. That was silly.
The game manual does mention that if you remove corruption on a world where the Consortium has corrupted the militia, the world will revolt and become neutral. Seems like a funny thing to happen with 100% certainty to me (if you have a full garrison on the planet you'd think you could have some chance to put down a rebellion), but it's an interesting game mechanic. Especially since the Rebels and Imperials do derive some benefit from corruption...

The game manual does mention that if you remove corruption on a world where the Consortium has corrupted the militia, the world will revolt and become neutral. Seems like a funny thing to happen with 100% certainty to me (if you have a full garrison on the planet you'd think you could have some chance to put down a rebellion), but it's an interesting game mechanic. Especially since the Rebels and Imperials do derive some benefit from corruption...

A full garrison? How does 3 companies of T-4Bs, Torpedo Artillery, Hovertanks, Infiltrators, Troops and T-47s, plus Luke, Yoda and Garm Bel Iblis grab you?

It's not 'interesting', it's blatant cheating. Perhaps next the Rebels get the ability to land full armies in raids? Give me a break.

Oh yeah, and another thing which could do with fixing for the next patch - lets have a proper "enemy fleet approaching" message. EaW's one was fine. I'm sick of hearing about the evil ysalamiri are coming to lay the smackdown on my underpowered fleets. Some people may think that the glitch is funny - I personally think it was amateurish. The testing team must have been off sick when this thing was rushed out the door.

not sure if this is a bug or "feature", but in multiplayer GC when i invade some worlds i won't start with any population flags. so my pop is 1/0, and only expandable if i landed troopers. and it's next to impossible to conquer the world if the enemy rushes you. i definitely recall it happening on Kamino in the map Clusters when i was empire.

I know this is old news, but the expansion makes it even worse, so could SOMETHING be done to make the ISD less worthless? A second shield generator hardpoint maybe, one for each tower?

any one have any ideas to make fix to the Random Events

Yeah that would be a good thing but after they fix the balance and game breaking bugs.

Bleh, I think I'll go off and play Dark Crusade. At least Relic are familiar with the concept of 'balance'.

Ive been playing this alot and I dont know about that. Its a damn side more balanced than FoC thats for sure AND bug free, touch wood, but for me the Necrons are pretty damn cheap. Try playing bloodshed ally 3v3 against three standard computer necrons and see how you go...anyway this isnt relic forums so i will get on to what i wanted to write.

There is a couple of opinions on here I just want to reply too and since the patch is probably well under way, put out a few ideas for consideration by not just devs but the community. I know they cant change things to exactly reflect canon but they can at least resemble canon.

The opinion that the rebels got duped in the expansion with their space units..well, yeah, sort of. They didnt need a heap of extra space units because they were already well balanced. Rogue Sdqn cant really compete with Thrawn I agree but they are much more obtainable, costing less than half. For a comment on the B-Wing see below.

Corrupt Militia/planetary take over thing...It goes to the heart of how the ZC operates but having no control over it really is lame. There is a way around it and thats simply to leave it. However as a player said they had a large garrison there and it went down without a fight. That is ridiculous. Seeing as the ZC is so wealthy, it could be an idea to introduce a cost to the ZC to take over a planet when a revolt begins, the reason being that it will cost money to finance the revolt. The larger the garrison the more it will cost to finance the revolt.

Sabotage ability: This is just plain annoying. I was losing up to three buildings PER day during certain periods in a GC. I dont think sabotage should be removed entirely but it is way overdone. If i didnt have a war chest of about 80,000 credits I would have been forced out of the galaxy by defilers alone.

IG-88: Already written about the Death Star issue. He seemed to like wasting his time by eliminating spare probe droids I had. Note to all: keep minor heroes handy for bait!

Heres a few handy suggests for PG...
Vengeance Frigates: take note of all the talk. These things need to be a little less tough. Seeing as Mass drivers are projectile weapons not energy, maybe give them limited ammunition???

ZC space stations: way too tough. If the blue pulse plasma cannons and mass drivers dont get you the standard lasers and protons will. They can slaughter fighters and bombers and therefore have no real weakness. Shields seem to be greater with better recharge than other factions.

Star Vipers: Too fast and maneuverable. They are superior in every respect to other fighters.

Keldabe: Shield leach ability should be toned down. Need to cost a little more too me thinks.

Int IV: Needs an engine hardpoint because its a bit on the fast side and every other frigate has one giving these things unparalleled speed.

Interdictor: They are useless in skirmish unless their decoy missile ability has been improved to have the same effect as IG-88s ability. That would make them useful. Needs a combination of, extra HPs or lasers.

B-Wing: In the xml I spotted they only have the same shield strength as an X-wing. Absolute rubbish. These things need to be flying tanks. Double shield strength and id give them the ion ability.

TiE Defender: Should be the fastest thing in space if it already isnt.

ISDs: I quite like the idea of 2nd shield generator hardpoint. Should receive some more hit points (best in the form of a couple of extra weapons). Jack up the price if need be: 5500 or 6000k is fine by me.

Ive been playing this alot and I dont know about that. Its a damn side more balanced than FoC thats for sure AND bug free, touch wood, but for me the Necrons are pretty damn cheap. Try playing bloodshed ally 3v3 against three standard computer necrons and see how you go...anyway this isnt relic forums so i will get on to what i wanted to write.


Yeah, it has it's problems - but really, going up against 3 Necron armies at the same time? You do like your challenges, don't you :p
Besides, my fave sides in DC are the Tau and the Eldar, and they are textbook cases of balance.


The opinion that the rebels got duped in the expansion with their space units..well, yeah, sort of. They didnt need a heap of extra space units because they were already well balanced. Rogue Sdqn cant really compete with Thrawn I agree but they are much more obtainable, costing less than half.


I'm not really sure what you mean by this. The rogues and thrawn are hero units, and hence they spawn. The fact of the matter is Thrawn has not only a constant effect advantage, but he's a capital ship. Rogues have a temporary boost, and after that, they are at the mercy of every other type of fighter in the game. If petro are going to force me into relying on my heroes to win anything, then I want heroes that are up to the task. The rogues aren't. You're correct in that the rebels didn't need much due to the fact they were balanced - but now, the two other amries have a stagggering arsenal which the rebels simply can't compete with. And to add insult to injury, most of thier hero abilities have been toned down. I.e., the rebels are f**cked.


Corrupt Militia/planetary take over thing...It goes to the heart of how the ZC operates but having no control over it really is lame. There is a way around it and thats simply to leave it. However as a player said they had a large garrison there and it went down without a fight. That is ridiculous. Seeing as the ZC is so wealthy, it could be an idea to introduce a cost to the ZC to take over a planet when a revolt begins, the reason being that it will cost money to finance the revolt. The larger the garrison the more it will cost to finance the revolt.


That was me, and I second your criticism. The idea about financing a revolt is a damn good idea, it puts ZC on equal footing.


Sabotage ability: This is just plain annoying. I was losing up to three buildings PER day during certain periods in a GC. I dont think sabotage should be removed entirely but it is way overdone. If i didnt have a war chest of about 80,000 credits I would have been forced out of the galaxy by defilers alone.


To be honest, I considered this just one of the ZC's more canon abilities. However, I do think the cost of bombing an area that has already been bombed dozens of times already should by incredibly high.


Heres a few handy suggests for PG...
Vengeance Frigates: take note of all the talk. These things need to be a little less tough. Seeing as Mass drivers are projectile weapons not energy, maybe give them limited ammunition???


I don't think we should go that far. The cloaking device on a pirate ship is about as canonesque as turbolaser-equipped Y wings, so that, as far as I care, can go. I don't think it needs an ammunition count - just cut the armour down to the levels of other ships in it's class and it'll be fine.


ZC space stations: way too tough. If the blue pulse plasma cannons and mass drivers dont get you the standard lasers and protons will. They can slaughter fighters and bombers and therefore have no real weakness. Shields seem to be greater with better recharge than other factions.


Yep. There isn't really any excuse for this.


Star Vipers: Too fast and maneuverable. They are superior in every respect to other fighters.


Yeah, I don't mind the idea of StarVipers being used as pirate fighters, but I'm sick of seeing squadrons of full-blown Viragos. To be honest, I think they should be at the same level as everyone else's.


Keldabe: Shield leach ability should be toned down. Need to cost a little more too me thinks.


They can keep it as far as I'm concerned, just so long a similarly large weakness is also put on. Currently it's just a capital ship with all the advantages and no weakness.


Int IV: Needs an engine hardpoint because its a bit on the fast side and every other frigate has one giving these things unparalleled speed.


I agree with you on the same grounds as the stations. This is just pure unbalancing with no reason whatsoever.


Interdictor: They are useless in skirmish unless their decoy missile ability has been improved to have the same effect as IG-88s ability. That would make them useful. Needs a combination of, extra HPs or lasers.


Possibly. Remeber interdictors are only any use in the canon for trapping ships - so I'm not sure if they need any sort of tweaking beyond their HPs and lasers.


B-Wing: In the xml I spotted they only have the same shield strength as an X-wing. Absolute rubbish. These things need to be flying tanks. Double shield strength and id give them the ion ability.


According to the canon, the B-Wing had about as much firepower and shielding as a skipray and could take on Imperial corvettes. Give them that kind of upgrade and we're getting somewhere - what you've mentioned should work.


TiE Defender: Should be the fastest thing in space if it already isnt.


Where'd this come from? I was under the impression the fastest fighters in space were Vigilances and A-Wings.... To be honest, I like this fighter. I think it's a good job.


ISDs: I quite like the idea of 2nd shield generator hardpoint. Should receive some more hit points (best in the form of a couple of extra weapons). Jack up the price if need be: 5500 or 6000k is fine by me.

Doing this would mean that they would be more shielded than Mon Cals, which doesn't make sense. They should have more firepower - i.e., more Turbos.

I can only agree to everything that has been said here. And about the Star Destroyer; if not buffing it up, then how about adding the Imperial-II Star Destroyer?

Tie-Defender: In the Tie-Fighter game it was the fastest ship there, I seem to remember the A-Wing had a speed of 120(forget the unit) and the defender had a speed of 156.

also, is it just me, or does the difficulty slider not affect the ZC? I was playing GC and the constant Corruption and Sabotage was just getting plain annoying, so I changed it to Easy, just so I could get some peace... Or at least I thought I would, the only difference was that the empire got extremely weak, so the ZC completely overran them, and got even stronger :/

All in all I think the ZC isn't impossible to beat, it just makes the game no fun to play:/
So, like I've read from so many others, the damn thing goes back on the shelf...

Tie-Defender: In the Tie-Fighter game it was the fastest ship there, I seem to remember the A-Wing had a speed of 120(forget the unit) and the defender had a speed of 156.

All in all I think the ZC isn't impossible to beat, it just makes the game no fun to play:/
So, like I've read from so many others, the damn thing goes back on the shelf...

Nevertheless, in the normal canon the A-Wing was the fastest fighter the rebels had, and was only ever matched by the imperial A-9 Vigilance - which apart from it's speed was basically a crap version of the TIE interceptor. I can't remember the speed in TIE Fighter, it must have been 6 years ago I last played it :(

I'm doing the same thing as you - leaving it on the shelf. Every time I play it I find something else about the Rebels that Petro have fubar'd. Hopefully this patch will do something to reverse the damage - much of the changes that have been suggested are all basically XML. I just wish I'd known about all this crap before I bought it...

It kind of makes me think somewhere along the line that someone on the Petro team turned around and mentioned "Guys, Lucasrts don't like the idea of the Dark Side and the Light Side being up against the WTFPWNING side. We need a new name. What's that? Corrupt? Great, that'll work...." :rolleyes:

Lol, (laughing about Tear's joke thing) anyway about shelving the game because it's inbalanced in a few areas doesn't mean you need to shelve it, you could always play as the Empire or the Consortium if you don't want to be the Rebs.

Or I could just play Dark Crusade and use the Tau and Eldar armies. I don't do bad guys..... ;)

It is pretty crazy. I played a skirmish against hard ZC AI as Empire, my first one, and had 4 mines vs their one for most of the game, and still lost Piett and Thrawn 3 times. Just vengeance could take out one or two hardpoints with an ISD before being destroyed even with a couple tie d's going at its mass-drivers first and the same logic made their space-station only beatable by lots of bombers and fighters. Cap-ships just died horribly.

All in all I think the ZC isn't impossible to beat, it just makes the game no fun to play:/
So, like I've read from so many others, the damn thing goes back on the shelf...

My sentiments exactly. I found the GC game against them very challenging but not enjoyable. In order to limit the ZC technology and so I didnt have to run into lvl 4/5 stations everywhere I stayed at tech 1 until they had about 6 planets left. Trying to take on 15 sdqns+ of star vipers was like getting eaten alive by pirahnas. I just spammed suicide fleets of tartans to go in and cut down as many sqdns before my real fleet attacked. :(

Tears I tend to write with respect to skirmish a bit hence the bit about Rogue Sdqn and Thrawn. I havent been bothered to look at the speed of the Defenders in XML but they dont strike me as being overly quick and ive always felt the interdictor is pretty weak; its been all but useless in skirmish. Tougher B-Wings would give the rebs a bit of a heavier punch and make up for their lack of units. I mean really, in skirmish they are like 700 and I think inferior to Y-wings!

ISD2s would be a great idea. I put them in my own mod and they cost about 9000 but reflected the cost. It would just be a shame that it would take the upgraded ISD to resemble how the base model should be.

Haven't had much time to play yet, but do the b-wings and defenders do well against other fighters? The latter really should at least. I'm becoming a bit of a one-trick pony here but I'd really be ok with it if they just made the ISD really good and let the other imp ships suck. It's the one ship that's just too iconic starwars to mess up like that. Well, that and maybe tone down the mass-drivers a bit.

It's also a little sad the game didn't have that counter-unit chart. :(

It seems I can disagree a large amount with Rust-Lord. I have found that Tie-Interceptors can counter the Star-Vipers. I have also been able to counter the corruption easily, without that much credits (maybe about 6-10 thousand). In addition, I have noticed how effective the Artillary Starships are and have you ever tried using them? I have destroyed about 20 squadrons of fighters with 1 Broadside Cruiser/ Maurader (No Modifications are applied). By what I have faced B-Wings are more powerful then Y-Wing, Tie-Fighters are useless against them, in addition I generally have problems against them. The Way to counter the vengence is fairly simple to counter, if you look at the counter list the Mc30 most definitly is a counter for the Vengence in addition the empire can use either Broadsides + Fighters or simply and ISD, I have killed Vengences easily (even after I upped their Health). For the space stations, I can see some agreement there... Although the it is always best to use the usual counters to a space station, in addition have destroyed a space station without much cost of capital ships (I did not modify any space-stations), In my game I can see how to counter it, using similar stategies for instance focusing firepower! I have actually destroyed a vengence without loosing a hardpoint, once again I can elabrate on focusing firepower. Key elements are to use your advantage of fighters, such as using the spawned ones against the vengence (there is a reason why the spawned ones are disposable)! My only comment is that the ZC heroes are a bit overpowered (just Zann and Sirili can take a whole planet that is reasonably gaurded).

StarViper is the greatest fighter in the game and the Consortium starts with 2 and can build more in the begining of the game in online space battles. My clan never looses when playing the Consortium ,never . Killing tartan,corvetts and enemy bases is not that hard with StarViper. That has to change. We have bojkoted (swedish word, dont realy know the english one) playing Consortium becouse they are to unbalansed.

Boycott = bojkoted, Wilfer.

You can *counter* the Star Viper with an Interceptor (ie keep it busy) but ive seen it with one squadron, 2 sqdn, 5+ sdqn that the Star Viper eventually *defeats* the interceptor and if they deploy their buzz droids in the right spot they win pretty convincingly.

When you say you counter the corruption are you talking GC or skirmish, militarily or actually removing their corruption/influence? Its all but imposible to remove their corruption entirely but this doesnt worry me so much. The production benefits are pretty good. It gets a bit annoying there's not a damn thing you can do about it though.

I like Y-wngs better than B-wings because they can use ion cannons. Bwings cant. They both fire torps and they are both crap against fighters and corvettes *although* Ywings have a chance at disabling them for a bit. Im more afraid of Y-wings than B-wings.

I have used broadsides against the ZC and they work well enough however the broadside actually has a much shorter range than the marauder. Attacking ships is okay however once attacked the ZC has always assembled its entire force and headed straight for me, so if I didnt have a comparable force they would slaughter me; and in the GC I played they used my old tactic of having a few HUGE fleets that I could not match at that point in the game without leaving every planet undefended. Against ZC stations with the broadside you have to get within their range to use them and you dont last very long. The marauder is okay. With the space stations the usual bomber attack gets shot up by plasma, lasers and mass drivers. You have to send a heap of squadrons escorted by fighters and hope they do enough damage to key hardpoints. When using acclamators you only get the 1 bomber sqdn so you really have to make them count which is not easy.

As for the vengeance they dont worry me too much, but I think they are imbalanced; nor do the aggressors worry me; I took out three with a lvl 1 space station and 2 bomber squadrons once.

Silri and Zann dont worry me; I know what you mean about playing as them though, they are pretty damn powerful but Urai is even worse....he has beaten both the Emperor, Vader and Fett one on one, hands down. He is ridiculous.

I am a usual GC player, so are you talking about in skirmish or GC? I suspect Skirmish. Urai's secret is that he can block the lightsaber, A good idea then would be to decrease the blocking chances to even it out. Although we do all agree the ZC heroes are overpowered. Only thing is that I have beaten a ZC space station with just (one of the lower or higher level) a capital ship and maybe 2-4 fighter squadrons (they are mixed between fighters and bombers). Key thing is to take out the mass drivers first and then the hangar or do mass drivers, plasma cannon, hangar. As rebels you can counter the plasma cannon by simply using the "power to shields" ability. I seen the computer make it do no damage to them because of the ability. Well I am talking in GC because you cannot corrupt anything in skirmish (it is not an ability... I have not tried a land skirmish yet). In addition, before I started playing the expansion as the Imperials, I played the ZC and found the weaknesses and strengths of the whole faction. My GC Strategy is what I call "fronts" I make inner planets to only defend and use the outerplanets to expand (build in the inner planets if I need to)

I only used the broadsides in GC. I will try hitting the mass drivers and plasmas straight off as I tend to go for the hangar first. I have preferred to stop their supply of blastboats as quickly as I can. The ZC is not a problem until they get tech 3 stations. Then they start to get tough to assault.

Going back to the point about fighters I had a look at the XMLs last night. Ill make a selected comparison....

CRAFT________SPEED____DAM___SHLD__HP
Interceptor_____5.5______3____________60
Star Viper______5.8______12_____50____75
Defender_______5________7______70___100
BWing_________4________5______30____60
Xwing_________4________5______20____60
TIE___________4.5_______3___________50
YWing_________3________5______30____60

The stats say it all *shakes head*.

Wow.... good thing for me my new favorite faction is the Zann Consortium lol

Hmm IMO the speed and range (and perhaps something else..?) of the Executor should be buffed a bit, ATM she seems more like a huge ship that just sits there and waits to be torn apart by bombers than the huge menace it should be.
And it takes forever to get her to a position where she can use more than 25% of her guns.

I only used the broadsides in GC. I will try hitting the mass drivers and plasmas straight off as I tend to go for the hangar first. I have preferred to stop their supply of blastboats as quickly as I can. The ZC is not a problem until they get tech 3 stations. Then they start to get tough to assault.

Going back to the point about fighters I had a look at the XMLs last night. Ill make a selected comparison....

CRAFT________SPEED____DAM___SHLD__HP
Interceptor_____5.5______3____________60
Star Viper______5.8______12_____50____75
Defender_______5________7______70___100
BWing_________4________5______30____60
Xwing_________4________5______20____60
TIE___________4.5_______3___________50
YWing_________3________5______30____60

The stats say it all *shakes head*.

I can't believe what I'm reading here. What a load of sh*te. Since when did the B-Wing become the a clone of the Xwing? Or the Star Viper outclass the Tie Defender in nearly everything?

Have petro lost all understanding of balance? How on earth could this type of tat be made and *no-one* at petro say "ummm, guys, does this list look...right... to you?"

Gimme a break.

I'm really really hoping that damage is what they mean by the fighter damage class, though it would be nice if the defender were just a bit faster too. It would be really cool if the rebels had to rely on fighters all the way up to the highest tech and then it shifted. I still wonder why they didn't put in gunboats. Those would be a good mid-tech bomber