I think your eyesight should be able to detect cloaked units, possibly by disturbances in the terrain (suck as dust clouds). You generally can't see very far, unless the terrain is wide open. Or you might hear them. Still I don't know what the possibilities are with cloak, as it is not in the game. So that is quite important to find out. There is also the possibility of using Force sensitive units to detect cloak. They should feel the presence of life through the Force.
Very true, however the Jem-Hadar use various heavy weapons as well, and they are even tougher than the Klingons, so they would probably be as close to an even match against Stormtroopers as possible, and I suspect that they would almost destroy a rebel infantry squad quite quickly. They are also cloned, with the only two downsides being their addiction to Ketracel White, and their short life-span (max 6yrs I think). They also use cloaked hovering mines (can't remeber their name), that are incredibly deadly. I do not believe that the Feds have very heavy handheld weaponary, and I suspect that the Klingons do have heavy weaponary, although they do not use it as much since they prefer melee combat.
If you wanted to, you could incorporate the Ketracel White into the game by say, having it be part of a troop training facility for those units or something (a prerequisite for building Jemmies).
What "heavy weapons" did the Jem Hadar soldiers employ? When I checked they still only had hand held weapons (basically small arms and knives, and by "small arms" I mean a pistol, a rifle, etc). The Klingons had mortars in one episode of DS9. Sure they (JM) had the "natural ability to shroud" (a type of personal cloak) but that's hardly a "heavy weapon" (and scanners can beat it apparently it only fools the naked eye). Those mines you're talking about are the "Houdinis" (randomly teleporting cloaked anti-personel mines). Again, that's not really a "heavy weapon" like artillery or a combat vehicle... The reliance on melee combat is a distinct disadvantage, since it means you have to get close to use it. If your troops are smartly commanded, you just set up position and mow them down, like the troops in WWI charging machinegun nests... In game you could fudge it a little more of course.
A "heavy weapon" isn't a handheld device. But anyway, you could talk about the various handheld weapons that the Federation has like the Type I and Type II phasers, the various phaser rifles, the "rocket launcher" type weapon that Worf happened to have with him in Insurrection (rather weak, but good range). In the original pilot for TOS ("The Cage", also featured in The Menagerie for obvious reasons) they had a laser cannon that was powered by a Starship in orbit which otherwise seemed rather powerful compared to anything else they had at the time. TOS had a mortar, only seen in one episode. Enterprise featured "stun grenades" but one could argue they were only used then because their "phase pistol" stuns weren't very advanced (or not). The MACO's carried early pulse phaser rifles (they also had phase rifles, an early version of phaser rifles, in Enterprise).
But anyway, we're still talking small arms (carriable by a single trooper) in all these cases, and still talking infantry. If it were just infantry vs. infantry it wouldn't be so bad, but the general lack of vehicles is a major problem. You have "hoppers" for moving troops and the Argo (dune buggy), that's about it, and maybe if you used shuttles in a support role.
Hence the need to invent new units for the ST ground forces... the more they would seem to "fit" the better, of course.
To help with unit creation/design for the MOD, here are two websites with a decent amount of Star Trek military information:
www.ditl.org) AND
www.treknology.org).
The treknology website has grounds units, but most are non-canon, they do, however, conform to canonical standards.
Hope those links help!
-- Vyraeth
Yeah, non-canon firepower figures can be ignored (I believe DITL differentiates between canon and speculation), essentially we need something that works for THIS game. But that could be a good source for ideas on how to fill in the gaps. None of this crazy "turbolasers would go right through Federation ships without damage" stuff.
;)
That alternate reality from Trek you mentioned, Kurgan? It's now in the Star Wars universe too! Read my fic!
Anyway, I think it's a great idea. I would love to be able to pwn a star destroyer with Voyager or the Enterprise!
Well I think "pwn" is too strong a word in this case, but we'll let it slide. Such a small ship probably couldn't take on an ISD on its own, even in this game! ;)
Well, I gave those links just as references, I.E. conceptual ideas for units. It'd be pretty hard to model this game after a realistic interpretation of the two universes (calculations from on screen evidence -- yes there's people that calculate it -- show a strong indication that Star Wars ships have powers well beyond anything in Star Trek), since Star Trek would be wiped out in the first few seconds. :-D.
Rather, whoever is working on this MOD will have to figure out a proper balancing scheme, but right now, I just hope we fill in the gaps for all the Trek races included.
I agree. Credit should of course be given to the folks on those sites who came up with the ideas in question if they are used. I agree, this would probably be "fudged" in favor of gameplay balance rather than "realism" based on calculations from canon. I mean after the mod is finished (if it's ever started and finished) you COULD sit down and make your own version that was more "realistic" by adjusting the stats. Just for fun... But the main work is creating the models and textures with the new faction, once you've decided which ones you're going to make and how they'll work.
I still think the easiest way to do it would be just to combine the Trek "races" together into one side. Unless you wanted to do a "Star Trek Total Conversion" where everything was changed into something from Star Trek, which would be a whole different animal. But I think ST vs SW is just a cooler idea. ;)
So somebody get those former ST vs SW modders on the phone and get them in here...
Well I think "pwn" is too strong a word in this case, but we'll let it slide. Such a small ship probably couldn't take on an ISD on its own, even in this game! ;)
I've seen that argument before somewhere.... the Trekkies won.
I thought it would be cooler to have multiple sides involved in the conflict. Get the Imperials, Rebs, Feds, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians (or whomever) in one big free for all (assuming the game is moddable to that faction extent).
This would also add expanded capability to the skirmish mode, where players could play just ST battles if they wanted, or Empire vs (spinoff -- not just Fed) battles, etc.
Yeah, it's more work, but it would make the mod far more worthwhile in the long run. Although, I suppose just to start it off, you could do Empire versus Federation -- since those two sides are the first thought to clash, etc.
I've seen that argument before somewhere.... the Trekkies won.
I'd like to see it. From where I'm standing, even if the ISD somehow never fought back, the Enterprise (E? D?) or Voyager would simply run out of ordinance before the ship was destroyed (and I don't mean completely vaporized, because that would be impossible for the tiny ship, rather I mean unable to fight or escape... I mean sure they could ram the bridge with self destruct on, but even that action would not stop the ship since they could still continue to fight, though losing your primary bridge crew certainly isn't anything to sneeze at, and that's all assuming they can even break through the shields beforehand). The rationale people use to defend the incredible power of the ISD has to do with its surviving asteroid hits and destroying asteroids so easily (plus there's numbers stated in official sources, but I'm saying based on direct observation of the movies alone). It's sheer size alone compared to the common Trek ships makes a big difference!
I'm not wishing to get into a numbers war on ST vs SW, but go see for yourself for the size comparison (
http://www.merzo.net).
Here's a pic I made from that very site for easier comparison.
http://www.swbattlefront.net/nitpicker/swvst1.jpg)
And yes, that tiny blob in the upper right is Voyager! I suppose you might try to argue that Voyager has taken on large ships before, like Borg cubes, but remember how nerfed they had to be for Voyager to be able to take them on (it took entire FLEETS to beat Borg cubes previously in the show), and in almost all cases they used some kind of technobabble to win anyway, which can't really be used in a discussion like this, or else you'd have to give that benefit to the Empire as well (besides, who's to say they know as much about the Empire as the Borg, whom they've been fighting for decades). ;)
In a real fight, the ISD is bristling with turbolasers, each with enough power to disable an unshielded ship the size of the Enterprise-D quite easily in one shot (notice how they did just that to the Tantive IV, which is about the size of Voyager). Forget what you've seen in Rogue Squadron and the X-Wing games. A single snub fighter cannot take down a capital ship in combat unless the people on the capital ship commit suicide! In the movies it took other capital ships and/or concentrated bombardment by bombers to do that kind of damage. Likewise an exploration warship like the Enterprise couldn't do it alone.
And if their goal is simply destruction, target their warp core, boom! The ISD also has tractor beam projectors, ion cannons and can launch fighters. Perhaps a fleet could stand a better chance, but anyway, this is really a job for the game, not debaters. ;)
I thought it would be cooler to have multiple sides involved in the conflict. Get the Imperials, Rebs, Feds, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians (or whomever) in one big free for all (assuming the game is moddable to that faction extent).
This would also add expanded capability to the skirmish mode, where players could play just ST battles if they wanted, or Empire vs (spinoff -- not just Fed) battles, etc.
Yeah, it's more work, but it would make the mod far more worthwhile in the long run. Although, I suppose just to start it off, you could do Empire versus Federation -- since those two sides are the first thought to clash, etc.
Well once you create the new unit (i.e: rather than just replacing the in-game ones with Star Trek ones) you could use the level editing capability (when we get it) to create new levels with those Trek units, and thus your Trek only missions or whatever. But see most people are going to want to see what happens with those other factions. So you'll need to do all the popular matchups. Borg vs. Rebels, Dominion vs. Empire, united Alpha/Beta Quadrants vs. the Empire, Alpha/Beta/Gamma/Delta quadrants vs. the Empire, etc. ;)
It'd be like doing a Marvel Vs. DC grudge match and only getting to see Superman vs. Hulk! You've got to eventually do the other stuff...
sounds like an interesting idea
well, i am not that deep into Star Trek, but i am also no uberb00n
if we would concentrate on the space fight, the federation has no chance against the empire / new republic (even the old republic)
maybe the cloaking devices are quite helpful as there is nothing similar in Star Wars (at least not in the movies)
beaming could enable hit and run attacks
but i think that the borg would have a quite good chance
they could lose one or two cubes due to the death star :p but if they get used to it, no chance
all in all, you guys have forgotten one big thing
the almighty force :clap2:
could a borg stand against a lightsaber?
maybe, but let's not forget lightning and grip and mind control
and as there are no small ships (except the shuttles), they couldn't even attack the vulnerability of the death star :D
or what would they do against enemy fighter squadrons (like the X,Y,A,B-Wing?)
doesn't matter, they don't even have something against the good ol force ;)
Ok im somewhat of a Trekkie, and in the EU of star trek, most starships are equipped with marine corps and fighters. which makes them someone of a formidable force. the sovereign class alone could take out the heavy frigates with 1/2 torpedos and its phaser banks could easily target the fighters, but might be hard to actually use them. Now there are the Jem Hadar fighters of the Dominion who could infact be the leading force against rebel/imp fighters
Well, I'll throw in my two cents...
To make this sort of thing feasible we need some sort of tie in, I mean we can't just say "Ta-Da, Star Wars vs Star Trek"... No... So, since Star Wars is a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, we can build on that... So... Eliminate the 'Long Time Ago' factor and we're left with "Far, far away"... With that said, depending on what the game can allow, we could create a "planet" and call it a wormhole, with the ability to build a space station around it, this wormhole would lead to our galaxy, which on the other end would be an area which another space station could be built (See Deep Space Nine), and restrict movement so that all intergalactic travels MUST go through that point... (Man I'd enjoy writing the story on this, mission by mission....)
Now we have the universes connected... Then comes the balancing act... Because of how complex the Star Wars ships are, they take longer to build, this is proven through Rebellion, so keep Star Wars ship priced higher and take longer to build, while the Star Trek vessels would take less time and be cheaper do to their ease of construction...
Next part? The forces involved. The two universes pretty much have diplomacies inorder to make things happen... So, if the Federation and the Empire were to meet, we'd need some kind of ground that makes them have to have a war for inter-galactic domination... The Empire generally views non-humans as slaves or low on thespecies chain, except some such as Thrawn, and so on... So, Empire meets Federation, Federation is an alliance of planets of humans and non-humans... Empire doesn't like this and goes to war on two fronts, againt the Rebel alliance, and the Federation Star Trek Universe... We will assume the Emperor is alive at this time and that he is the driving force of this war... As the Empire begins invading the Star Trek galaxy, the Empire outsources some of the jobs relating to the harvesting of money, and such, to the Hutts, who contract jobs out to smugglers, who encounter and bring back Ferengi, who piss off the Hutts who really begin to back the Empire, as the Ferengi now back the Federation/their own cause..... As the Rebels send a fleet to investigate they discover the worm hole on their own get attack by cloaked Romulans... The Rebels forge a temporary alliance with the Empire combining both Imperial and Alliance forces in a joint attack on the Star Trek galaxy... With the Romulan scouts being destroyed the Romulans fight the Federation and its cohorts for control of the worm hole, while eventually giving in and forging their own temporary alliance against the Star Wars Universe....
Enter the Borg.... As the Star Wars galaxy pushes their way deeper and deeper into the Star Trek galaxy they finally encounter traces of the borg, who have gained an interest in this battle and begin to assimilate both sides... And so on...
Species 8472 would be kept out of all of this because although they're neat and would give the Star Wars empire a run for their money, they would not align themselves with either side, so if they WERE included, they'd need to be the pirates, where they go in **** all over the fight and leave....
**** the storyline, who needs one. Federation vs Empire/Federation vs Rebellion simple as poo.
You could then go on to add the borg as a forth faction as it would be interesting to use. Balance the sides forget the 'real' figures
i would work on this mod (coder) i am experienced with Cnc Generals ini and can do most of EAW xml
Wouldn't the Federation join on the rebel side and not the Imperial side?
I would have thought so. Although I have seen a couple of mods that have Feds vs Rebels vs Imperials (ie free-for-all).
well maybe in the campains (if any) and galactic conquest but in skirmish it should be free for all. there need be no story there need be work models etc to get people interested
A simular mod was created for the Star Trek Armada games. It'll be good if you can pull off a well balanced game especially since the Star Trek technology is supposed to be far more advanced than Star Wars.
Best of luck.
They just announced a new Star Trek RTS game called 'Star Trek: Legacy'.
Here is the link:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/startreklegacy/index.html)
so I hope that this can please you trekkies.
*btw, I think that Empire at War will kick the above games' ass!
Based on? ;)
Anyway, that game looks good to, it sounds like it'll be more in-depth than Armada and the ships will have more staying power, especially interested in the idea of spanning the entire period between Enterprise to post-Nemesis.
Yeah, there have been rumours of it being a ST:FC and Armada cross. I just wish the graphics were much better.
I'd like to see it. From where I'm standing, even if the ISD somehow never fought back, the Enterprise (E? D?) or Voyager would simply run out of ordinance before the ship was destroyed (and I don't mean completely vaporized, because that would be impossible for the tiny ship, rather I mean unable to fight or escape... I mean sure they could ram the bridge with self destruct on, but even that action would not stop the ship since they could still continue to fight, though losing your primary bridge crew certainly isn't anything to sneeze at, and that's all assuming they can even break through the shields beforehand). The rationale people use to defend the incredible power of the ISD has to do with its surviving asteroid hits and destroying asteroids so easily (plus there's numbers stated in official sources, but I'm saying based on direct observation of the movies alone). It's sheer size alone compared to the common Trek ships makes a big difference!
I'm not wishing to get into a numbers war on ST vs SW, but go see for yourself for the size comparison (
http://www.merzo.net).
Here's a pic I made from that very site for easier comparison.
http://www.swbattlefront.net/nitpicker/swvst1.jpg)
And yes, that tiny blob in the upper right is Voyager! I suppose you might try to argue that Voyager has taken on large ships before, like Borg cubes, but remember how nerfed they had to be for Voyager to be able to take them on (it took entire FLEETS to beat Borg cubes previously in the show), and in almost all cases they used some kind of technobabble to win anyway, which can't really be used in a discussion like this, or else you'd have to give that benefit to the Empire as well (besides, who's to say they know as much about the Empire as the Borg, whom they've been fighting for decades). ;)
In a real fight, the ISD is bristling with turbolasers, each with enough power to disable an unshielded ship the size of the Enterprise-D quite easily in one shot (notice how they did just that to the Tantive IV, which is about the size of Voyager). Forget what you've seen in Rogue Squadron and the X-Wing games. A single snub fighter cannot take down a capital ship in combat unless the people on the capital ship commit suicide! In the movies it took other capital ships and/or concentrated bombardment by bombers to do that kind of damage. Likewise an exploration warship like the Enterprise couldn't do it alone.
And if their goal is simply destruction, target their warp core, boom! The ISD also has tractor beam projectors, ion cannons and can launch fighters. Perhaps a fleet could stand a better chance, but anyway, this is really a job for the game, not debaters. ;)
You are forgetting that in 'Our' galaxy, the Star Trek galaxy (I refer to 'ours' because Star Trek is set in our galaxy...etc.) lasers are COMPLETELY obsolete.
If you really wanted a critical, scientific look at it, read the 'story' on that dtl.org or whatever...>_>...about the fight between Federation and Empire.
The Federation has superior technology, centuries ahead of the Star Wars universe. Why?
Four words.
'A Long time Ago...'
Yeah, so seeing as how Star Trek is in the future, and Star Wars is in the past, I'm going to have to agree with that story. But on the same note, Star Trek universe would lose a lot of ground since it doesn't have enough numbers to combat the hundreds of thousands of Imperial/Republic ships.
Really a great idea !
It was always my dream to mix the two universe so where's the link to download it :P
Star Wars lasers were more than 5 Trillion times powerful than Star Trek lasers.
http://stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html)
Well once you create the new unit (i.e: rather than just replacing the in-game ones with Star Trek ones) you could use the level editing capability (when we get it) to create new levels with those Trek units, and thus your Trek only missions or whatever. But see most people are going to want to see what happens with those other factions. So you'll need to do all the popular matchups. Borg vs. Rebels, Dominion vs. Empire, united Alpha/Beta Quadrants vs. the Empire, Alpha/Beta/Gamma/Delta quadrants vs. the Empire, etc.
It'd be like doing a Marvel Vs. DC grudge match and only getting to see Superman vs. Hulk! You've got to eventually do the other stuff...
No, no, no, you're missing the point. ;-). The idea is to setup all the sides and let players choose their matchups. Play the galactic conquest game with all the factions, or setup a skirmish between the Borg vs. Empire, Rebels vs. Borg, Federation vs. Empire, etc.
Yeah, I really hope this MOD undergoes development.
Balance > Lore. Nuff said.
TB.
I think that a SW vs. new battlestar galatica universe would be better, the ships would be of comparable size, the galatica type of ships don't use energy based weapons and even have nukes (at least not the new ones and I like the new series way better then the old) not to mention that if you also brought the cylons into it. But they dont have shields.
Just my 2 cents
Star Wars lasers were more than 5 Trillion times powerful than Star Trek lasers.
http://stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html)
Major races in Trek use phasers, polaron beams and disruptors, not lasers. ;)
Anyway, I've seen that site, I do agree that the Empire would likely be able to defeat most of the major powers in Trek (excluding God beings and super races like the Borg and Species 8472 of course), but then again the Star Wars galaxy dwellers have had FTL capability for THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of years, it's not surprising they would be able to overpower the Federation which has only existed for several hundred years.
Although, I will say that I think the Federation is progressing at such a rapid rate (supported by fleeting glimpses of the future such as the 31st Century) it won't be long before they surpass their counterparts in the Star Wars galaxy.
Where's the option to vote for, "I spend all day at work building ships for Star Trek Legacy. I play EaW to relax. Mixing the two would just confuse me." ?
^_^
Not to mention, everytime someone compares the Enterprise to a Star Destroyer, an Ewok dies. Please, think of the Ewoks.
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
Take that you stupid Ewoks!
I was refering to this You are forgetting that in 'Our' galaxy, the Star Trek galaxy (I refer to 'ours' because Star Trek is set in our galaxy...etc.) lasers are COMPLETELY obsolete.
Where's the option to vote for, "I spend all day at work building ships for Star Trek Legacy. I play EaW to relax. Mixing the two would just confuse me." ?
You work for Maddoc? Any idea when Legacy will be released?
As for the Ewoks, I think they're cute, if a bit primative.
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
star destroyers are better than the Enterprise
Take that you stupid Ewoks!
I was refering to this
What the hell? Maturity level = 0. ):
I hate ewoks, and did you even bother to see what we were talking about?
Would be cool, but balancing it properly, given how polarised both sides are is going to be tough.
Size wise the main Alpha Quadrant races aren't going to win any of the big SW ships. The most powerful Federation Ship atm the Fast-Battleship / Heavy 'Explorer' (hahaha, as if) Sovereign class only carries a crew of 1000 as opposed to an ISD's 27000.
Although one thing is for sure is that SW fighters will not have a chance against ST beam weaponry, given that they track nearly perfectly and have no discernable travel time, unless they develop really heavy shields (maybe assault shuttles).
By the way, I believe SW 'lasers' are actually a sort of directed plasma charge, and not 'lasers' per se. This would make them more similar to the plasma torpedoes employed by the Romulans, but with less firepower and more speed.
One could also argue that the Small Trek ships have excellent field of fire coverage, and could just sit next to a large SW capital ship's blind spot and blast away with impunity.
Also, there do seem to be heavy weapons such as Trilithium torpedoes that can destroy structures the size of a ISD (Voyager, Caretaker station.)
Probably though, for a balanced game, the ST ships can be extremely hard to hit by the big SW ships, since they can't target the fast ships very well. So the smaller SW ships will have to do so, with better fields of fire, but they still don't move very fast.
ST also has big capital ships, such as the Dominion Battlecruiser, other than Borg Cubes. And they have been taken down.
Ah well, good luck!
According to the guides to each sides vessals the entire Federation fleet couldnt take out a single SW bomber.
http://stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html)
^^
You mean the entire Federation fleet firing ALL at the same time on a single TIE-Bomber, they wouldn't be able to destroy it? The same unshielded, slow-moving, TIE-Bomber?
It says the the E-E can't take out an Acclamator, doesn't say anything about not being able to take out a bomber.
At any rate if you want a meaningful playable matchup the sides will have to be balanced, or else no one would play a stomp for very long.
The Armada mods are already nicely balanced. The only thing that remains to be done is the speed of the ships as hyperdrive is rendered irrelevant by way EAW is. You may also want to devide the faser strips up into sections, and maybe have shields protect against torps a well. As for the fighters, the Armada mods also had quite a decent number of forward firing small ships. And don't forget that most SW ships also can hit nearly everything.
Star Wars: Slave-1
Main guns: 64000 GW (2 kilotons per shot, 480 rpm firing rate onscreen in AOTC for time-averaged power output rather than peak output)
Missiles: 190 megatons (tail-launched missiles; seismic charge mines are roughly 12000 megatons)
Sublight acceleration: 2500G
Operational range: not stated (however, Obi-Wan's starfighter has an operational range of 150,000 light-years, and is probably similar).
Shield heat dissipation: not stated (however, Amidala's personal yacht has shield dissipation of 2 billion GW peak, and is probably similar)
Reactor power: not stated (however, Amidala's personal yacht has power output of 7 billion GW max, and is probably similar)
Max hyperspace speed: not stated (however, same-day flight from core to galactic outer-rim systems requires speeds in excess of 10 million c)
Star Trek: Enterprise-D
Main phasers: 3.6 GW
Photon torpedoes: 64 megatons max theoretical
Sublight acceleration: 1000G
Operational range: 2750 light-years
Shield heat dissipation: 3311 GW peak
Reactor power: ~4 billion GW at max warp 9.6
Max warp speed: ~2000c (warp 9.6)
Even this seemingly Trek-biased matchup seems to heavily favour the Empire, with Jango Fett's small patrol craft able to hit the Enterprise-D with much heavier firepower than it can dish out in return. Small wonder, then, that despite the simplicity and convenience of the lazy man's method, most Trekkies prefer to avoid it.
Not to mention that several times in ST they state that it would take almost their entire Photon Torpedo load to destroy a Hollow astroid. Yet in Star Wars they are blasting Astroids left and right with their weakest guns. Not to mention Jango Fett destroyed astroids much bigger than him with a single seismic charge.
Not to mention that several times in ST they state that it would take almost their entire Photon Torpedo load to destroy a Hollow astroid.
Just to clairfy, it would take the entire torpedo supply of the E-D to destroy that asteroid.
Yet in Star Wars they are blasting Astroids left and right with their weakest guns. Not to mention Jango Fett destroyed astroids much bigger than him with a single seismic charge.
Weakest? I think you're pulling things from thin air on that one. The only time I can recall asteroids being destroyed were by Jango Fett's charges and Star Destroyer turbolaser batteries, neither of which I think are considered to be the Star Wars universes' weakest weapons. In fact I seem to remember TIE Bombers strafing asteroids in TESB and they seemed to hold together just fine.
Sometimes, it's really difficult to compare. Simply because the people who created these universes did so to explore certain issues and ideas, not from a mathematical and engineering standpoint. Some ships or events or weapons are created just for the awe factor, and can be really weird. Case in point, look below.
1 'Light' Turbolaser: 1.25 x 10^16 W
1 'Heavy' Turbolaser: 8.4 x 10^20 W
(Note that each shot from this turbolaser would require the perfect annihilation of 9000 kg of matter)
1 Galaxy Class Type X Phaser Strip: 4.17 x 10^15 W
1 Sovereign Class Type XII Phaser Strip: 7.08 x 10^15 W
1 Defiant Class Type X Phaser Strip: 7.00 x 10^16 W
Strength of Defiant Class Pulse Phaser Cannons: Unknown
However the following implies that its damage is extraordinarily high.
Quote: "On her first active mission the Defiant faced a group of Dominion Attack Ships; these vessels had successfully withstood several minutes of fire fighting with a Galaxy class starship, but Defiant's phaser cannon cut through their shields within moments." - ditl.org (Canon, TV Series source)
Depending on which ship as you take as a standard, if you take the defiant, which weighs in at an astounding 171 metres, it has ridiculous firepower that can annihilate ships much larger than itself.
And about the Asteroid issue, the Intrepid-Class Voyager destroyed a space station (see the difference in sizes) with only 2 Tri-Cobalt devices.
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/1307/gcaretakerarray27kq.jpg) (
http://img74.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gcaretakerarray27kq.jpg)
Throw in other movie facts such that 1 Tactical Officer controls all the weapons on a Federation Trek Ship, and that guns are operated by gunnery crews in SW (ROTS Episode 3, Falcon Turret ANH Episode 4), and it gets kinda difficult to make meaningful comparisons this way.
So, as it's been said, gameplay balance > not properly thought out fantasy universe 'realism' (for both universes)
I go with weakest guns, because they were chasing a ship that they really wanted, so wouldnt it make sense to save the energy for those guns? Not to mention that their is no reason to use heavy weapons when light ones will do the job just as well. And i agree with the above statement.
I go with weakest guns, because they were chasing a ship that they really wanted, so wouldnt it make sense to save the energy for those guns? Not to mention that their is no reason to use heavy weapons when light ones will do the job just as well. And i agree with the above statement.
When was this?
The Star Destroyers were clearing the asteroid field so as not to suffer a collision, I see no reason to use weaker weapons here.
I'm assuming you're talking about the TIE Bombers. To be honest if the Falcon had its shields down and a bomb landed on it, the strength of that explosive wouldn't have mattered, the ship would have been destroyed. It's a plot hole.
Fact is you're making an assumption here with no evidence.
Star Trek has its own equivalent of the Death Star: the Genesis device. They could just fly up to Coruscant or Yavin IV with it in a cloaked Bird of Prey. The planet's occupants wouldn't know anything about it until...they'd been transformed into base molecules. At least they could see the Death Star coming.
As I see it...
ST advantages: cloaking devices, transporters, better sensors, better firing arcs and much more advanced android technology. (ST's best: Data. SW's best: C3PO? R2D2?)
SW advantages: the force, huge battleships, more powerful "normal" weapons, better/more diverse ground units and Jedis/Siths.
It'd seem like a game balance nightmare, but awesome if someone could make it work.
(Oh, and we all know James T. Kirk would lay the smack down on Vader and Obi-Wan.)
:)
You forget that Star Wars weapons have a much larger range, in SW close range is 10km or more and in ST they have to be practically on top of eachother. Also SW ships have weapons scattered all over their holes, so they can cover more angles. Plus Transporters are unreliable and ST ships take years to go across one section of the galaxy while SW ships can Hyperspace across the entire galaxy in weeks.
Transporters have always been portrayed as safer than driving a car is for us today. In the history of Star Trek, there's been one transporter accident that I'm aware of. There have likely been others, but even so, in ST people are transporting with every breath, almost. Transporter technology is shown as being very reliable even from the earliest days.
Do any ships in SW have dead spots in their firing arc? I thought I recalled my Victorys and Star Destroyers having to turn slightly to fire on a ship directly behind them. If so, that's an advantage for ST...their starships almost always have 360 degree weapon coverage.
SW definitely has a range advantage. In ST they're always talking about how long it'd take to get from alpha quadrant to delta quadrant, while a SW ship could do it much, much faster. (This assumes the far, far away SW galaxy is something close to the size of the Milky Way).
The most important tactical advantage of ST is cloaking devices. In SW I've never seen them portrayed as having anything like an invisible ship. How would they deal with that? Unfortunately, SW ships seem to ALWAYS have their shields up. Otherwise it'd be easy for a Romulan ship or a Klingon Bird of Prey to pull up alongside one, quietly transport troops over and start sabotaging systems. Why shoot at something that you can disable, or blow up from the inside?
And if you use Data, then no Stormtroopers could stop him. Only a Sith Lord could do that, but even he couldn't beat the transporter.
"Captain I am done here, and there is a strange, tall man wearing a black suit and helmet walking towards me. Please beam me up."
(By the way...I'm starting to play devil's advocate here. I'm quite sure the hardware from the completely-fantasy Star Wars universe could seriously wipe out that of the mostly-based-on-current-science Star Trek universe. I just like defending/playing the underdog. :) )
^^^
Same on the devil's advocate thing. ;)
Plus Transporters are unreliable
Actually they are pretty reliable, only things like shields and some kind of interference can screw them up (outside of mechanical failure: VERY RARE).
I THINK I remember them breaking through shields with transporters by boosting the signal or diverting more power or something like that. Might be mistaken there.
Could Data really take on a thousand Stormtroopers? Also SW shields always have their shields up do to the huge number of micrometeorites traveling through space that can cause tremendous damage to a ship. Which brings me to the question of why the inferior ST technology can somehow protect them from micrometeorites without any form of protection?