Originally posted by wedge2211
Can't you just make a few NPCs with appropriate team settings and health values, and then let them go at each other with a few defined waypoints, and then cut camera angles as the battle progresses? I think something similar was done for the Luke/Desann matchup on the Cairn dock.
That's basically what I meant. The problem is that the more waypoints you place the better the combat is dynamically, but in the same time it will make it harder to follow any specific NPC (actor) with a camera with any intelligent camera angles.
Although, now that I think about it, if I recall it correctly, you can set triggers to be triggered only by a specific NPC. That would allow you to place triggers along the way from waypoint to waypoint, to be launched only by the NPC you want to follow. Thus, you could trigger scripts to change totally dynamically the cameras so that they always have an intelligent angle to the NPC in question.
It would be complicated, and still you would need some master script to be behind everything, or count enemy deaths or something, to bring the movie back under absolute control at some point. Then you would need to bring the NPCs to locations you know. After that it would be again like an ordinary cinematic.
Noooo, just lost a long and detailed post with an accidental key press!
It's an interesting topic, the whole action thing. Severeral ideas come to mind: How about making the JA and QT versions noticably different in some ways. For example, how about actual fight scenes the player can control occuring at certain points. For example a load of Dark Jedi could ambush the team and control then goes to the player as Jaden who gets to fight these enemies off. The option to not have to fight could perhaps be included. This would utilise the interactivity that is possible when building this in a game more perhaps.
As the QT version is essentially recorded ingame footage - we could use various methods to record this for action scenes. We could have AIs go at it as Wedge suggested, and record it until we get a version that looks cinematically about right, and use that. We could also have it in no_clip and just record there, using that view as the camera.
We could have a human player in SP or even several in MP acting out some of the action sequences - as they do in popular shows like RedvsBlue I believe. These could then be recorded and thrown into the places where action takes place.
Scripting saber fights is super complex, I believe, it would take an enormous amount of work. This is why, I think, Raven include so few cool saber fights in JO and JA. Simpler stuff like gunfights might not be so hard.
Part 2 is half suspence driven, creepy wandering and half ship based, small space type comedy. Part 3 is supposed to be scary, more than action packed. Part 4 however could see some more heavy action - not sure exactly what yet :)
Originally posted by lassev
Of course it would be quite easy with with the saber fighting, although the unpredictability might prove out to be a problem considering the placement and usage of cameras (follow command with camera groups sure would help).
However, as Team Corellia (until now I have called this Corellian Incident, and for some bizarre reason Kengo never corrected me :p ) does not contain but one saber user, I think the problem of creating more activity and a higher pace of action will be a bit more difficult.
I think Master_Thomas did quite a good job with the camera follow command for randomised saber battles in his first level. It's an option certainly.
I thought you were being ecentric with the name there :) Jaden is the only saber user on the team, that we know of anyway, I guess the rest are tooled up with some bellow par, badly maintained Republic equipment....
Originally posted by Kengo
For example, how about actual fight scenes the player can control occuring at certain points. For example a load of Dark Jedi could ambush the team and control then goes to the player as Jaden who gets to fight these enemies off.
No. Boo. It's a movie, people watch it as such. Besides, if you give a human control, they are more than likely to do things you don't want them to, that aren't in the script (ie, kill all the GOOD guys, go run off and explore lassev's architecture, etc).
One thing you could do, I suppose, is have the movie fully scripted but let the viewer get spectator control. Let THEM control the camera angles. This is probably only cool for big battle scenes, and you might want to build "playerclip" boxes and teleports to force them to stay in and move between specific areas.
We could also have it in no_clip and just record there, using that view as the camera.
We could have a human player in SP or even several in MP acting out some of the action sequences - as they do in popular shows like RedvsBlue I believe.
Again--no, boo. Your movies being fully scripted is what sets them apart from others out there. And...this is something you can't do in the JA versions, isn't it? :P
I suppose you could make it an .ROQ file, but unless it looks very similar to the scripted sequence, it wouldn't work very well in my opinion.
I agree with Wedge. Not only does a strict movie format prevent unwanted things to happen, but it also saves some work. With predefined camera angles (at least nearly) you can very well leave many places as facades. If you give player any control, they are, like Wedge said, bound to go exploring places they shouldn't.
And since this is a movie, I almost think that you should release it only in QT format. In the end there's no need to make it playable in game. It will also save the effort of making ROQ files. You can just put it together in your favorite video editing software.
And I'd be more than happy to edit it together with my pro video editing software. ;)
I downloaded it and started it, and when the level finished loading it booted me back to the main menu with an "Error Unknown 234523434534" or something of the like.
Originally posted by Thrawn42689
I downloaded it and started it, and when the level finished loading it booted me back to the main menu with an "Error Unknown 234523434534" or something of the like.
That's peculiar. Kengo's part was not prone to errors. Are you sure your download was not corrupt? Or maybe you have some interfering components in your base folder? It might also be worth the trouble to try both the installation ways Kengo provided.
But one thing is sure: JA seems not to be as user friendly as JO considering the publication of your works. The problems with subtitles, mission descriptions and such is not something a fellow with a normal train of thought may understand easily.
Originally posted by Thrawn42689
I downloaded it and started it, and when the level finished loading it booted me back to the main menu with an "Error Unknown 234523434534" or something of the like.
Yeh, I haven't seen or heard of that error for this before :confused: Lasev's suggestions are sound - if you put it in the base folder, perhaps you should sacrifice the subtitles and end credits and put it in a mod folder in the gamedata directory - this will avert any conflicts with other base files, if that is the problem. If not, maybe it is a corrupt download.
Just to explain further how I was thinking of doing the action scenes - for those of you that haven't played Final Fantasy games - when you get into a fight it goes all 3d (depends which one but you get the idea), music starts and the player is placed in control of the characters for the fight. I was thinking of something similar - you go into a fight scene, and are in a highly restricted area (player no go areas make this easy) where your only course of action is to conduct the fight. Allied NPCs can be outside of the no-go area willing you on (thats in keeping with most of their personalities...) or just invulnerable.
As for the recorded sections created within SP or MP and recorded - these would be only for very distinct action scenes. Scripting gives you a lot more control for most actions, camerawork etc, but full on saber fights simply aren't possible with scripting, unless I want to spend months and months on one short fight sequence. So for a few scenes, if well 'acted' by players, it might work out. It's an idea that has a lot of flaws, so I'm not really sure, it needs development definately! It would require full knowledge of recording (good qualty) footage ingame, and a couple of exceptional saberists as well. Luckily, I don't have to worry about these things for some parts to come!
I could maybe, as Eskimo suggested, use ROQ files for these recorded sections in the JA version. I really would like to look at some ROQ stuff in there somewhere, maybe for a fully animated intro and things like that (also maybe ship flybys and such - the kind of thing that would be CGI in a film) . Clu's amazing Colloseum shows just what you can accomplish if you really know how to make ROQ files! :)
sweet, ill check it out tonight when i get home :)
Looks nice. I havent checked it out yet, but I might after seeing the screengrabs. Also, I have the registered version of FRAPS so I would be able to make it in AVI format or whatever if someone wants to take it from there.
In other news, I dont think you will have to worry about Casperhead coming back to this threads *cracks knuckles* But definitely keep up the good work:)
Might as well break the news also around here. The speed problem some people have unfortunately suffered with this movie (with my part of it anyway) are most probably due to the unreliability of DOWAIT("task") and WAIT("task") commands.
If you are keen on the subject, first compare for your own amusement the cinematic scripts of JO and JA. After you have noticed the big difference, you are as far as I was before Kengo decided to go straight to the source. I decided to join the gang and gatecrashed to the levelforge.teamhuh.com.
If you are truly interested about the shortcomings of ICARUS, go there are read the short but very enlightening answers we got from a reliable source.
So, to make the long story short, we well most likely be able to deliver a more universally working movie in a few days...
Originally posted by Andy867
In other news, I dont think you will have to worry about Casperhead coming back to this threads *cracks knuckles* But definitely keep up the good work:)
Thanks for the assistance, Andy. :)
Originally posted by Eldritch
Thanks for the assistance, Andy. :)
Ah Eldritch! Do you have a problem with people? Or do you have problems yourself? What did Casperhead do to you?
Casper, you do know it is against LF.com to make multiple accounts, especially when you have been banned. Consider THIS screenname banned as well...
Thanks twice over Andy. What can I say, I guess anytime someone comes in who has 1 post and immediately starts supporting poor old Casper 'who's been so badly treated and never does nothing to hurt nobody' I'll let you know! Casper, will you just stay out of this thread, I have no interest in your opinions and you have no interest in my work, so lets leave it at that.
I've got a new version of Team Corellia: Part 1 up at PCGM, the hope being that it fixes the dialogue speed problem some people had, after Lassev did some extensive work on the scripting. It also fixes the missing model thing, and adds German subtitle, briefing and credit support.
http://www.pcgamemods.com/3842/)
I'm very interested to hear if that fixes the dialogue timing problem others had before.
Great work guys.
I tried it out and it worked fine for me.
I didn't even have to select the difficulty in SP though, it shot straight into the movie as soon as I hit 'New' :D
Why can't people get along? Sigh :(
This is a warning to you andy. Go ahead ban this name but your going to have alot of fun banning names cause there will be another one after another. We are going to work this out peacefully or we can do things the hard way I was banned unfairly in the first place I'm not leaving and if I do leave I'm going to make sure this site gets its share of hell. We will talk this out on msn I think you know my address If not your going to keep banning and banning.
Originally posted by WeedCracker
Ah Eldritch! Do you have a problem with people? Or do you have problems yourself? What did Casperhead do to you?
Oh yeah one more thing you don't want me as a enemy.
Will this guy EVER learn. Perhaps a Perma-ban will suit him best.
Casper, please PM me so we can resolve this issue in a more civilized way.
Andy, if you're going to sort this out with Casper outside of this thread (which would be great) then could you please delete all his posts in here? I am sick of all my threads getting hijacked no matter how many times he gets banned, no matter how hard I try to ignore him. Oh, and personally, I don't believe people should get what they want by threatening others and harrasment.
DarkLord, can't you see the wood for the trees man? There are two sides of this, one wants to just have a normal freakin' showcase thread without people slagging them off and the other wants to harrass everyone into doing what they want them to. I can't believe you can possibly go along with what Casper is doing. I guess I shouldn't underestimate the power of denial? He's been banned at least FIVE times now DarkLord, don't tell me you believe they were all really unfair on the poor lil' guy? Man alive - wake up!
If you are willing to knock some of the crap you wedge2211 and eldritch try to pull with me maybe I can be nicer.
What crap? He seems to make this stuff up as he goes, or imagines it.
Originally posted by Eldritch
Anakin, I hope you know what you're getting into with Casper. I can't say much to his current behavior as I believe he's been banned from here as well, but you're taking a big risk given his previous actions.
I don't like that kind of stuff Now I would like to work this out.
Stop posting here, Casper. Kengo was very clear when he said that the first time.
I don't believe LucasForums will let the person they banned at least five times back in just because he threatens to make trouble:
"We are going to work this out peacefully or we can do things the hard way I was banned unfairly in the first place I'm not leaving and if I do leave I'm going to make sure this site gets its share of hell"
You don't get it do you? You can't force someone to patch things up peacefully at gunpoint! Also, an argument that can be patched up has to be a disagreement between two people, not between me and the imaginery person you seem to think you are, who never does nothin' wrong. You see, this is the Casper I see:
You've gone out of your way to ruin two of my showcase threads, you (or your friends, yeh whatever) spammed Map-Review, you've threatened LucasForums and come back multiple times after being banned, you've been banned from PCGM for years after that whole attacking the site thing. You're only at Massassi because they unbanned all the people there, and I'm sure you'll manage to get banned from there AGAIN pretty fast. I'll make the safe guess you either don't visit, or have already been banned from JK2File's comments and forum system. You were thrown off the TMU team for threatening them with theft of their propery, after gaining entry to their team via a false name:
http://forums.massassi.net/html/Forum1/HTML/030568.html)
http://forums.massassi.net/html/Forum1/HTML/031241.html)
That's aside from harrasing people over IM programs with multiple screen names, a load of posts you handily deleted, and outright lies such as the one about me and Tito, a regular on the MR forums.
People shouldn't let you walk all over them for you to treat them with respect, you should treat people with at least common decency from the start. Anymore threats out of you, and I will carry out one of my own: I will attempt to get your ISP to remove access. I think over the past years you've done quite enough illegal stuff (and even boasted about it on public forums later) for that to be a very real threat. I don't want to have you barging onto one of my threads, or attacking a site I work at/for, or threatening one of my friends ever again. Don't post here anymore.
No. I was never banned from the jk2files comment system. So your sounding like you don't wan't to work things out. well I apologize for hijacking your thread. For one If you want to say bad things abput me IM me and not in the forums.
Now you are saying to use IMs? Oh, the irony..
Originally posted by gothicX
Now you are saying to use IMs? Oh, the irony..
Do you really wan't to start this. I'm trying to work this out peacefully. at least one person matured.
Kengo. the only reason I Hijacked your thread is because a few of your freinds have been hijacking mine.
"You showed Thrawn42689 these maps as being Casper. You have the same screenname as Casper. You have the same bad grammar as Casper. And I have released a map a while ago already." ~GothicX
That right there got my WIP closed.
I have a countless number of these logs.
Originally posted by Kengo
I don't believe LucasForums will let the person they banned at least five times back in just because he threatens to make trouble:
"We are going to work this out peacefully or we can do things the hard way I was banned unfairly in the first place I'm not leaving and if I do leave I'm going to make sure this site gets its share of hell"
You don't get it do you? You can't force someone to patch things up peacefully at gunpoint! Also, an argument that can be patched up has to be a disagreement between two people, not between me and the imaginery person you seem to think you are, who never does nothin' wrong. You see, this is the Casper I see:
You've gone out of your way to ruin two of my showcase threads, you (or your friends, yeh whatever) spammed Map-Review, you've threatened LucasForums and come back multiple times after being banned, you've been banned from PCGM for years after that whole attacking the site thing. You're only at Massassi because they unbanned all the people there, and I'm sure you'll manage to get banned from there AGAIN pretty fast. I'll make the safe guess you either don't visit, or have already been banned from JK2File's comments and forum system. You were thrown off the TMU team for threatening them with theft of their propery, after gaining entry to their team via a false name:
http://forums.massassi.net/html/Forum1/HTML/030568.html)
http://forums.massassi.net/html/Forum1/HTML/031241.html)
That's aside from harrasing people over IM programs with multiple screen names, a load of posts you handily deleted, and outright lies such as the one about me and Tito, a regular on the MR forums.
People shouldn't let you walk all over them for you to treat them with respect, you should treat people with at least common decency from the start. Anymore threats out of you, and I will carry out one of my own: I will attempt to get your ISP to remove access. I think over the past years you've done quite enough illegal stuff (and even boasted about it on public forums later) for that to be a very real threat. I don't want to have you barging onto one of my threads, or attacking a site I work at/for, or threatening one of my friends ever again. Don't post here anymore.
You don't know what happened with TMU. Besides it's none of your buisness. And know I only reign hell on people that get in my way. Or That mess with me. Some of your freinds have got me annoyed now you have to choices. Work this out peacefully and blow everything off. 2 Keep doing what you are doing. And deal with me And trust me I'am not someone you wan't to be on the bad side of. your choice I suggest you take number 1. I'm not somebody you would like to mess with.
I take it last nights conversation between us didnt sink in did it Casper ?:confused:
It sunk in. But these people just don't wan't to work things out.
Look, if you want to work this out peacefully, then let's do it! Don't say a word! Please! If someone annoys you, don't pay attention, don't answer, do nothing! The person will leave you alone.
For the others: if you are tired of Casper which you are for sure, just skip his posts, and for god's sake, don't answer them! Please! Speaking to noone is boring. Even for him.
Probably I'll get some insults now from him (if he doesn't listen to me) but I don't care. It is easy to press that little block button every time he finds out a new name and easy to skip all his posts regardless of their content.
No I don't skip post. I'm just here to work things out. Shessh.
Y'know...we're not messing with you, it's always you instigating things. If you would stop hijacking Kengo's threads and threatening us with "reigning hell on us" and "having you for an enemy" and such, we wouldn't try to defend ourselves by removing your threats from the community. Simple as that.
But short of him voluntarily ceasing to harass us...yeah, block him, like LJ said. That way he CAN'T do damage to us.
I'm not even going to into the possible outcomes of internet harassment suits, Casper.
Now let's quit this. Andy, if you would work your magic...?
[EDIT: Oh, yeah, Casper, the triple-post claiming that you've matured and then threatening Kengo? Real convincing of an increased maturity level and intentions of peacefully working things out...]
"You showed Thrawn42689 these maps as being Casper. You have the same screenname as Casper. You have the same bad grammar as Casper. And I have released a map a while ago already." ~GothicX
You guys did it me first That got my wip closed way before I even hijacked it. And what have you done to me. lets see You insult my freinds Zappa included. You bite my head off in every thread. One of your map review members tried to send me a virus. No This will get worked out one way or another.
Um....okay, so we started it by you evading a ban?
I got banned for no good reason in the first place.
I guess I'll try keeping this on topic. :p
Any news on Part II?
And why isn't Wedge's character in the poll?
It has to be rendered void due to that. ;)
Originally posted by Casper
No I don't skip post. I'm just here to work things out. Shessh. OK, this is my last time. :)
Why, oh, why? It would be sooo cool if everyone could live near to the other without fighting or seeking revenge? Isn't that easier? Do anybody need to be upset? Do anybody really need to be angry?
This whole thing lasts for months now. If nothing else that is clear that there will be no peace if everyone continues the same behaviour. Change yourselves! I do. I will not read posts from either side which are somehow related to Casper.
It is said.
Back to that Corelian Ale Project! Yeah, Kengo, what about part 2? Come on, man! :D
Originally posted by Casper
You don't know what happened with TMU. Besides it's none of your buisness. And know I only reign hell on people that get in my way. Or That mess with me. Some of your freinds have got me annoyed now you have to choices. Work this out peacefully and blow everything off. 2 Keep doing what you are doing. And deal with me And trust me I'am not someone you wan't to be on the bad side of. your choice I suggest you take number 1. I'm not somebody you would like to mess with.
My choice is this: I will not be bullied by you into letting you get away with everything you've done, and still do. There have to be consequences for your actions, you can't just scare people into letting you off the hook. I am happy to 'mess with you' if that is what you want, come and get some tough guy. Pistols at dawn?
I've tried to ignore Casper before LJ, and in the end if you don't give him the attention he wants then he just gets more and more offensive. Still, I'll set him to ignore so I guess it won't matter. One thing I do strongly agree with; there's no point perpetuating this argument, I don't believe anything we say will make Casper change nor do I believe it will make him stay away. As full bans haven't worked either, I see no alternative for LF but to IP ban him if they actually want to stop him coming back over and over, but thats up to them!
Originally posted by Hekx
Any news on Part II?
And why isn't Wedge's character in the poll?
It has to be rendered void due to that. ;)
Wedge's character belongs to the Team Corellia movie, but unfortunately it doesn't belong to the Team Corellia team inside the movie. That team your saw at "Prin-ce's Street", and that team is in the poll. But as Wedge certainly was very reliable, fast and flexible in his voice acting, it would be foolish not to use his acting skills again (even for some other NPCs).
You know, the keyboard tapping noises were included in his original voice files, if you can believe that :p. Wedge is sometimes a bit too creative for the scripter's taste... But it turned out just fine, in my own opinion.
And did I say anything negative towards you the whole time. Today. Did I? And If you wan't to mess with me do it over msn.
Hehe, I'm looking forward to contributing to other voice parts in future installments (I also have GoldWave, so I can do stormies, robots, etc...)
Originally posted by lassev
Um... You know what, you are absolutely right. I guess I knew that all along, but after I had spent hours and still many hours more mapping the setting, I just didn't have the heart to cut it out. Believe it or not, but I shortened it quite a bit! But I just couldn't cut the whole scene with Car'Let walking into the building out. Kengo would have done that, if he had been a real movie director, and not such a fine fellow as he is. I guess he took pity on me, and didn't say anything, but let it be there (although, just as you said, it is useless and doesn't bring into the movie anything but a glance at some architecture).
Actually, I wouldn't want the scene cut at all... it was one of the better settings, and it was a good opening/introduction scene. I just think a little bit more camera work would have been better.
Like, instead of the camera in front of Carlet, running parallel to the sidewalk, have the camera at some point, move and pan out to a position adjacent to the sidewalk - like across the street, veiwing toward the CorSec building.
Then, have Carlet walk across the view, then pan/move the camera back to a parellel position with the sidewalk, only following Carlet from behind instead of front. I think this would show off more of the great architecture in the map, and make the scene more interesting.
Well, as it is quite likely that I'm not mapping or scripting for the next episodes, you just might get what you wished for!
Actually, I thought your scene was the better, and am sorry to hear it, if that is the case.
The Bridge Street scene, I felt there were many things that could have been fixed... so that is alot harder to be specific on... which is why I specifically pointed out the camera direction of the CorSec building scene... and as far as the scenes being drawn out, that was aimed at both scenes, really.
And, I will restate, that I respect the amount of work involved in this project... it took me good part of a day to get only two cameras working how I wanted them too, and a whole day to get a single dancing girl to dance correctly!
So anyway, if I'm being nitpicky, it's because I see the potential behind the project. :)
Originally posted by idontlikegeorge
Like, instead of the camera in front of Carlet, running parallel to the sidewalk, have the camera at some point, move and pan out to a position adjacent to the sidewalk - like across the street, veiwing toward the CorSec building.
Then, have Carlet walk across the view, then pan/move the camera back to a parellel position with the sidewalk, only following Carlet from behind instead of front. I think this would show off more of the great architecture in the map, and make the scene more interesting.
Yeah... um... Yeah, let's say that it would have been better that way, and believe me, I would have made it that way, but for one reason. You see, the city kind of didn't exist in all directions, nor were the buildings detailed or textured on all walls. That's the magic of movie setting. It would have been too much work to map so much that I could have used more varied camera angles. Now I used almost all camera angles I could muster without making it apparent that the setting wasn't very large after all.
So, the truth was rather technical and not very artistic. I could do better than that given time and effort! Yes, it was a cinematics setting, not game level setting at all.
Originally posted by idontlikegeorge
So anyway, if I'm being nitpicky, it's because I see the potential behind the project. :)
No problem. I perfectly understand and agree. It's only good to look at things more carefully if you make similar things yourself. This was an example of a compromise between time and quality. That's what I'm always saying (and I'm also saying that only Eldritch can have both: a short time and a high quality...).