I can't remember, who said it. But he/she said that we only have seen a lightsabre being thrown. If you've read the Thrawn Trilogy, you will remember that Luke killed many Noghri's in one throw!
Originally posted by Deadeye
I personally like the manual blocking mostly for use in saber duels. As far as saber vs gun combat, I would like to see an autoblocking system that deflects blaster bolts, but if you hit the block button at the moment of impact, you can definitely aim back at your opponent, like Jedi Power Battles.This is a neat idea. I haven't played Power Battles, so I'm not sure how well it works, but it sounds pretty cool.
Originally posted by Deadeye
Boy this is a heated discussion. It started out with most votes to the manual blocking. Now auto is catching up! In the end I would bet that Raven left the saber combat alone, and only added to the two stances for the light staff, and the dual sabers. Could this mean that all my ranting is starting to pay off?? :p Although it is a heated discussion, I think it is a good discussion. There are many good points on both sides.
The more I see in this discussion, the more I think a mixed manual/auto system would work best, with limits on how long you can autoblock. You shouldn't be able to autoblock forever. To me, that seems just a bit excessive. That's why I think that, perhaps, tying how long you can auto block to your defense level would work well. For blocking guns, you could have the autoblock work for X amount of seconds, or Y value of projectile hits, or something like that. The manual blocking would work well in the Power Battles sense where, if you hit manual blocking at the right moment, you'll deflect back at the opponent (otherwise any deflected shots get shot off at random, I guess).
For the sabre combat, I still like my auto/manual block setup and the combos to break the blocking. :) Alternatively, you could do strictly autoBLOCKING, but manual PARRYING, which would be similar to the guns thing. You'd get to autoblock X number of attacks, depending on stance and if that stance trumps yours, or you can try to time a parry properly (And if you miss, either open yourself up to attack or just block) and go on the offensive.
You know, one thing that occurred to me is that, even if Raven never does anythnig like this, we've got some GREAT ideas for mods in here. Now if only I could code....
Jedi Power Battles is not a GOOD example of a manual blocking system. Why? Because Power Battles has nothing to do with the Jedi Knight series. The games are COMPLETELY different in style.
Manual blocking is not something that would be very functional in the FULL setting of the game. It would merely become eye-candy, or an added feature for people who enjoy long, drawn out, saber contests.
Also, people have mentioned that with manual blocking they'd be able to block red stance. Need I mention that the CSC aiming system of Promod took care of all of this stuff, AND it didn't require a blocking button? I do not see how a manual blocking system can be superior to an auto system dependent on aim AND current movement. If you moved foward, your blocking was weak, and most shots would break your guard. If you stood still, blocking was normal, meaning that plenty of shots could get through. If you ran backwards, you had decent blocking. strafing, running, ducking, and walking, all increased or decreased your blocking abilities. So yes, it was no longer random AND it was a completely intuitive system. There were no extra buttons to push, no systems to activate. you just had to position yourself. This allows smooth, natural battles. People moved, and they simply had to position themselves correctly to either break someone's guard or parry attacks.
This "add a block button " stuff was made completely irrelevant by the Promod system. There's simply no logical reason, if a new blocking system were to be implemented, to ditch the Promod system and add this Jedi Power Battles system.
Let me tell you what the Jedi Power Battles system did. First, since the game was an arcade beat-em up, your blocking system was pretty much infinite. It said that after a certain number of hits, etc, your guard would break. Let me tell you that it almost never happens. When a blaster is fired at you, if you press the block button just before it hits, you'll reflect straight at the enemy. Cool feature... except for the fact that in JKII, your enemy isn't a dumb, one laser per five minutes shooting droid! You're up against rockets, imperial rifle blasters on rapid fire, repeaters, etc. And your target is smart enough to move out of the way. Once again, a manual system becomes irrelevant. Jedi Power Battles also witnessed a very slow combat system. You block, the enemy attacks, you attack, the enemy blocks, blah blah. No fluid motion at all. You just block till the person opens up, then lay the smack down. I know this game isn't about realism, but how much blocking do you really think you can do in a sword fight? I don't care if it is Star Wars either, the last thing we need is a complicated block system. Promod's was just fine. Of course, Raven won't address this issue at all, most likely, and just leave it to random blocking .
In the end, I'd prefer random blocking to manual blocking any day of the week. Manual blocking would really benefit one group of people: someone who likes complicated saber only combat. Dueling. I like dueling too, but not something where I have a block button. This isn't Mortal Kombat. Once you have a "block" animation, two things happen. You either 1.) just made the console JK2 style blocking system. In other words, it's auto blocking made cumbersome and slow, which helps NO ONE. 2.) you've made a blocking system that's stronger than the old one. So now, like Street Fighter, you've gotta come up with a counter to the blocking system. Like a throw. OR, you'd have to make it so that we had several blocking animations as well, for low, high, etc. Oh goody, now you've made the system even more complicated, cumbersome, and slow. Manual blocking, while SOUNDING cool would completely destroy the game OR simply add a more annoying, cumbersome auto-blocking system that we ALREADY HAVE. No need to make it harder to use. Plus, keep in mind, not all of us "saberists" are duelers. I don't care for the practice. The idea of having 'honorable' sword combat all the time is pointless to me. I enjoy the ctf/ffa crowd. Where all of the weapons are in the fray, where multiple fighting styles are present. The last thing I would need is this suped up, sophisticated block system to get in the way. A manual blocking system simply wouldn't help a person playing the FULL game at all.
Originally posted by Solo4114
The more I see in this discussion, the more I think a mixed manual/auto system would work best, with limits on how long you can autoblock. You shouldn't be able to autoblock forever. To me, that seems just a bit excessive. But why do you think it is excessive? Why should defense weaken over time? Is the Jedi getting tired? Or is it just for gaming purposes? The lightsaber is already limited enough with its extremely short range.
If you want to tone down auto-blocking, I would say a better way would be to have the angle you are facing compared with your opponant come into play. But I think that you should be able to block an attack that comes straight on when you are in a defense position.
The way i see it there is no good from either and this is worrying me. If u make it manual then the saber combat would be slowed down. Another bad thing is that if u make it manual people with guns will rule over the saber. If its automatic then when u attack someone at ne point in time the could block it and no damage would be done.
Automatic,
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Originally posted by Prime
But why do you think it is excessive? Why should defense weaken over time? Is the Jedi getting tired? Or is it just for gaming purposes? The lightsaber is already limited enough with its extremely short range.
If you want to tone down auto-blocking, I would say a better way would be to have the angle you are facing compared with your opponant come into play. But I think that you should be able to block an attack that comes straight on when you are in a defense position.
I think it's excessive because it can slow things down and it can also make sabreists untouchable by gunners (depending on the weapons they give gunners -- and I'd like to see less explosive stuff and more blaster based stuff). It also does remove a certain amount of skill from the game. If blocking is set too high, I can back myself into a corner and walk away from the keyboard, and the other guy will still have a tough time killing me, even with lethal sabres. So, for gameplay balance at least, it's important.
As far as an explanation dealing with the Force, you can say that the jedi's concentration wanes over time. So, at different levels, you'd be able to autoblock for different amounts of time. The higher the level, the long amount of time.
I have less of a problem with autoblocking, I just think that a manual parrying system would be nice, since it would add a new dimension to the game and require skill to use (presumably).
ProMod was good, but my problem with it was actually with the movement stuff. Yes, autoblocking should reduce as you move, but I never felt that the moving forward = higher offense, moving backwards = higher defense thing was entirely workable. In theory it makes sense, but in practice, it leads to matches where people duck down and back up, while the other guy turns on rage and/or speed and attacks by running forward. I'd like to have fights be a little more stationary, or at least not involve quite so much running around.
An aiming system would be fine, in that an autoblocking system could take into account the angle from which an attack came. On the other hand, that could make things unnecessarily complicated, and while requiring skill to use, might also turn newbies (not n00bs, mind you) off from the game. Let's face it, it's no fun getting your ass kicked. A newbie shouldn't necessarily be able to take out an experienced player, unless they get lucky, but they should still be able to have fun in the game.
I think automatic blocking plus a manual parry button would be a relatively uncomplicated system. Learning combos to break defenses, and a trump system (one of the best concepts from ProMod) that makes sense would work too. Thus, the newbie would be able to pick up that a particular stance will ALWAYS beat another stance, and so learn to switch stances and not be tied down to only playing red, yellow, or blue.
I'd like to see people encouraged to learn the whole sabre combat system, rather than just one particular stance. At the same time, though, I think that people should be given the ability to survive if they have a particular style they prefer (IE: finess over brawn, strength over speed, etc.). The real masters of the game, though, would be able to use all three interchangably.
Well lets go to the root of this, not the universe, not realism but gameplay....
1:Are you ever pissed off with people blocking too much in jo?
Allright well it does seem a bit awkward at times i am more annoyed with the continuas up-to-down slashers who NEVER use block.
2:Why do you think red stance is so popular?
People want fights to be fast, done after the first 3 slashes, while fast style(not very true to its name) needs more strategic play against a good player because hits dont damage much.
The only addition i can think of is a soul-calibur-esque parry, this might be a good idea against the strong stance since people wont be able to get hits in that easily.
Originally posted by Solo4114
I think it's excessive because it can slow things down and it can also make sabreists untouchable by gunners (depending on the weapons they give gunners -- and I'd like to see less explosive stuff and more blaster based stuff). It also does remove a certain amount of skill from the game. If blocking is set too high, I can back myself into a corner and walk away from the keyboard, and the other guy will still have a tough time killing me, even with lethal sabres. So, for gameplay balance at least, it's important.Unfortunately, saberists are already at a disadvantage against gunners. Reducing their defensive capabilities would lead to a slaughter. I agree with moving the guns more so to the blaster style and away from the explosive style for the most part. Thermal detonators and stuff are cool though. As for people backing into the corner, you can always DFA of uppercut :)
Originally posted by Solo4114
I have less of a problem with autoblocking, I just think that a manual parrying system would be nice, since it would add a new dimension to the game and require skill to use (presumably).I would be more keen to go this route than to change auto-blocking outright. Maybe have manual parrying open yourself up if it fails.
Originally posted by Solo4114
ProMod was good, but my problem with it was actually with the movement stuff. Yes, autoblocking should reduce as you move, but I never felt that the moving forward = higher offense, moving backwards = higher defense thing was entirely workable.I am not a fan of the Promod system either, and looking at the number of servers, neither is anyone else. I'd prefer to solely rely on the angle you are facing, not the movement. Penalizing players for moving around could make for a boring game if everyone is just standing around.
Originally posted by Solo4114
An aiming system would be fine, in that an autoblocking system could take into account the angle from which an attack came. On the other hand, that could make things unnecessarily complicated, and while requiring skill to use, might also turn newbies (not n00bs, mind you) off from the game. Let's face it, it's no fun getting your ass kicked.I'm not sure why this would make things more complicated, especially compared with manual blocking. I'm not saying that you have to be facing straight on to be able to block anything. But your defence should decrease as you increase the angle, to the point where you don't have any defence directly behind you.
Originally posted by Solo4114
I'd like to see people encouraged to learn the whole sabre combat system, rather than just one particular stance. Unfortunately, as long as there are people who don't take the time to learn, this will always be the case.
Originally posted by Prime
I am not a fan of the Promod system either, and looking at the number of servers, neither is anyone else. I'd prefer to solely rely on the angle you are facing, not the movement. Penalizing players for moving around could make for a boring game if everyone is just standing around.
Considering that a lot of people NEVER tried it, u can t judge if people were fans or not .... and looking at the number of servers of JO now, i can tell you that not a lot of people are still fan or playing normal JO....... all is left is people juste looking to have a boring jedi saber fight, the competitive players scene left for more interesting games :rolleyes:
Now did u actually played more than a few minutes to come up with your complaint about promod system ???
Cause looking at what you say it doesn t sound you really bothered to understand the system
Moving around does not penalize you
If i see someone standing around, then the poor guy is DEAD cause i will outmaneuver him very quickly and have a bonus to attack sin i m moving around forward
Personnally i played promod since the beta 1 was released and i can t think of a more balanced and fun gameplay for JO at this time .......simply cause plain JO and other mods failed to bring this.
Now i just wait to see if Raven and LEC learnt from their mistakes and release a fun and balanced game with JA ....... but i highly doubt it regarding how they ruined their reputation ( at least for me ) with JO
I agree with you Prime.
I vote to keep the automatic blocking. I believe that the most important part of games is fun. I don't see how changing to a manual blocking system would improve the current game play and make it more fun.
This might be a little long but I want to address as many issues as I remember that have been brought up in the last few pages of posts.
Currently each playing individual can approach any given situation in a variety of ways. There are many options for attacking and defending against attacks. I someone wants to block lasers and just wait for the rebounding lasers to kill their opponent they can do that, or they can be aggressive and take an offensive stance to try and attack their opponent.
By making a limited blocking system relying on some meter that depletes with each successfully blocked shot, it forces all players to play a particular way, rather than how they want to play. This meter idea also has drawbacks as far as the number of opponents is concerned. Having a meter that depletes might not make a noticeable difference against a lone Stormtrooper, but entering a room with 20 or more would pose a very serious problem. Players couldn't just enter the room and start attacking because the laser fire from a massive number of opponents would deplete the meter much more rapidly than a single opponent. This would force all players to stay back and hide. They would only be able to take out a couple of opponents before they were forced to go back and hide around a corner waiting for their block meter to recharge.
Making successful blocks deplete the force meter would play out even worse. No player would ever want to use any force powers, including jump, because they would be leaving themselves defenseless. For example: what if the player performs a series of jumps to scale a cliff only to arrive at the top and be killed by a single Stormtrooper because they were incapable of blocking since they had no force left in their force meter.
Another important situation would be when the player encounters several Jedi. Already we've seen several screenshots from JA where the player is defending against up to seven Jedi opponents. If limited blocking were implemented these battles would be nothing more than the player running around frantically trying to hit their opponent in the back. Currently players can choose to run behind their opponent to hit them, but they also have the option of fighting directly with the opponent and enjoying the experience of lightsaber battle.
As far as manual blocking without a block meter goes, the player could just hold the block button down and block until they decided to attack, which is exactly like the current system but holding an extra button.
I think most people probably have the "Always Run" option checked so they don't have to hold a button down to run. The same principle can be applied to having to hold down a block button.
The Playstation game Jedi Power Battles had a manual blocking system with a block meter, and that was a huge pain whenever your Jedi was in an area with multiple enemies they would deplete the block meter very quickly and leave you defenseless. This forced the player to inch forward into each area to try and take on opponents one at a time. This severely slowed down the game play. The Jedi battles against Darth Maul were even worse. If the player tried to block, Darth Maul would attack and the player would only be capable of blocking one to two attacks before the block meter filled up and left the player totally defenseless. This really isn't a very good template for a making a fun game.
I've also played ProMod and found the movement far to restrictive. That system required the player the move backwards to have the highest level of success against an attack. Personally, I think the player should be able to block an attack no matter what direction they're moving as long as they are facing the player. This was much more of a problem if someone was shooting at a Jedi using this mod. The only way the Jedi could successfully block the incoming laser fire was to move backwards. This made absolutely impossible to close the distance between the Jedi and the gun-wielding opponent.
As previously mentioned by Prime, the saber is already at a disadvantage because it is a close range melee weapon. The saber damage should be lethal regardless of the stance and the attack. This allows everybody to choose their stance preference and know that they will be successful in attacking their opponent and rewarded with a kill. The battles in the movies lasted long because both Jedi participated in a constant exchange of defensive and offensive attacks. This should be reflected in the game, allowing good automatic blocking and lethal attacks and requiring the players to rely on their skill rather than the button mashing currently in multiplayer. If both players could deal lethal attacks and receive lethal attacks, good players would become more cautious rather than blinding continuing to attack to try and hit their opponent the multiple times required to cause a kill.
Many arguments seem to be aimed towards making the Jedi weaker rather than trying to directly improve the game play. A manual blocking system may sound good in theory from certain perspectives, but really doesn't belong in a fast paced Jedi action game such as this.
At no point in the movies does it ever indicate that the Jedi can only block for a limited amount of time. The Jedi that survived the Battle of Geonosis, survived because they were good at blocking and balancing that with correct times to attack.
Limited blocking would only slow down the game play and I don't want to see the game made slower and harder just for the sake of making a basic function such as blocking hard to do. The challenges of the game should be properly calculated to allow for fun game play with challenges that don't just cause frustration.
The Jedi are powerful and this should be reflected in the game. The saber to saber blocking could use some work as far as having the animations showing the Jedi reach out to meet the incoming saber rather than waiting for it to get closer, but the fundamentals of the automatic blocking system should remain. Another improvement that could be made to the blocking system would be that at the highest level of block you don't reflect every laser blast right back at the shooter. Not even the Jedi in the films do that. But besides some cosmetic and simple changes to the system it should remain relatively unchanged.
Im pretty sure this has already been said over and over but i dont wanna waste my time reading 20 pages of text...
i watched this picture:
http://www.lucasarts.com/products/jediacademy/images/screens/5.jpg)
and i was wandering whats is he doing?Blocking?Will it be possible to block manually with the Maul-Like sabers??
Ne0|eD3N :mex1:
Ok, so assuming it was left the same, how would we go about speeding up combat? As it stands, the blocking seems quite high. You really don't need to DO anything to keep blocking. Just stand tehre and let the computer do it for you. That kind of reduces the amount of skill involved in the game.
Maybe the way to go is a mixed system. Give people the option within the game. Not as an option like auto-run, but as an option during play. IE: you have autoblocking AND a manual block/parry button. You hit manual block when you want to block, but it's got to be split-second timing. You can't hold down manual block (it would only last for, say, 2 seconds with a 1 second cool-down time), but it'd be 100% effective if timed right.
The autoblocking could then be left similar to how it is now, but reduce the percentages of a successful block (assuming they need reduction). The autoblock could be, say, 25% effective at level 1 defense, 50% effective at level 2, and 75% effective at level 3, but the manual block would always be 100% effective, under certain conditions. (IE: manual block won't help in a trump situation with sabres, and won't help against explosives/heavy weapons.)
This way, there'd still be randomness and newbies would have a chance at playing the game, but the skilled players, those who'd honed their reflexes and had a sense for the game, would still be able to win consistently.
I dunno. I'm brainstorming here. What do you guys think of this one?
got a question if u r on automatic does it block light sabers, and if it does then u couldn't hurt no one. But if it doesn't block automatically then it will turn back to button smashing.
Originally posted by Solo4114
I dunno. I'm brainstorming here. What do you guys think of this one?
I think NO additionnal key involved in the saber defense
If people here doesn t like the movement variables of the promod system ( wich personnally i have no problem with ), it s not a problem: i would gladly see basic CSC implemented in plain JA to make skill involved with the saber combat ....... it s only natural to have aim involved in sucessful play in a FPS
And also make all stances useful ......
Ho and Btw ........ i voted the 3rd option not to say to give option for both, cause both sux ...... Automatic as it is totally ruins the gameplay and slows the pace of the game, and manual is out of question imo.
So i say automatic with a new system : CSC
yeah automatic is ok but it turns into button smashing.
Could be how he holds it, though that would not be good. Eventually his arm would get tired and trying to successfully block from that position would be difficult.
I think it would be better to block while holding the sabers with two hands...
But you make an interesting point :) ALthough I think the developers just wanted to make it look like the way Darth Maul ignited his saber in EPI...
I just wanted to reinterate what I had originally suggested. Only b/c of the course this thread is taking.
The Jedi Power battles way of manual blocking had the player hit the block button at the moment of impact of a laser bolt. If timed right, the bolt would 100% go back to the sender. What was also cool was that the animation had a cool, and vaired martial arts swing just like the movies. In JO if you run while being shot at, You're guy only has about 2 blocking posititions. It would be nice like in JPB to see you blocking all over the place like the battle at the end of EPII.
People were saying that you should not be able to manual block forever. I agree. I origianlly suggested a short block meter. It goes down with every impact on your saber. When it is drained, you better parry or get outta the way, b/c the next strike will probably get through, or at least will do a knock away. It's like you're blocking for so long that you're guy gets momentarily tired.
But not too long. I'm talking like ~8 blocks for blue stance strikes, ~6 for yellow, and maybe 1-2 for red stance. For laser impacts, maybe 10-12. This meter recharges very quickly too, so you are not w/o defense for long. This forces your opponent to act quickly and seek out those momentary openings. I still say that we have poly-to-poly collision detection with the sabers, so that even though you're block meter is drained, if you take a swing and your sabers meet, you still block. Since your meter is drained you're gonna get knocked away though, but it does allow for one more block, but it's risky b/c your sabers have to meet. If your opponent does an uppercut, or gets a wide strike from the side, you might not be able to anticipate where he's going and you won't be able to contact his saber. Better to do a roll, or flip outta the way, or that yellow stance flip over the guy move, and then your meter will charge up again. This creates this great movie-like back and forth competition with saber duels. I'm imagining the Obi-Wan Darth Maul duel right after the force field opens. You have that great clash, clash, clash! then obi-Wan parries. His meter is all charged up again, then bam! he's back in there. Or you can see when Darth Maul's meter is drained when Obi-Wan breaks his saber in half. It's like when your meter gets drained you get sorta overwhelmed by your opponent, so you have to get outta the way. Qui-Gon should have gotten outta the way, when his meter drained. He did what I was talking about earlier. His meter was drained, but he stuck his saber out anyway, and Darth Maul got thru anyway. -That's sorta the basis for my idea.
I also agree with the auto-blocker advotcates. We dont' want to complicate things anymore. Lag also plays a factor here too. That's why I think auto blocking should still mostly be left intact. But only to block blaster fire. Just like now, if you stand there and someome fires at you, you can block. Some of the bolts will in fact go back to the sender. But hit that block button at the right time, and every one will go back. Plus it makes you sorta feel like you're doing to the blocking. -more immersive. With saber duels, just hold down the button until you're ready to strike. Or start swinging and try to break thru your opponents defense meter.
Don't think of it as this whole mode, or stance. It's just a button that tells the engine to put your saber where the impacts are coming from. Let the collision detection do the rest.
The other thing that I think would be cool, would be that you press the 1 button and you take out your hilt. Hit it again and you ignite. Or you can hit primary attack to ignite and swing. -like it is now. It might be a nice style factor if you can stand there with your hilt, and then hit the ignite button, and do some cool-looking, confident, baddass ignitions. For all those lightstaffers out there, you might do Darth Maul's cool ignition. I think they should create several different ignition animations, that correlate to your character's level in training. At first you don't look so confident. Remember when Kyle killed Maw in JK1? When Jerec walked up Kyle was all scared and pointing his saber around like "Who's there!?" Something like that would be good at the beginning of the game. As you become a master, you might stand there with your feet shoulder-width apart, and your hilt in one hand and aiming down to the side. Then, bddshuuuush!. As if to say, "wanna go?" I like games with a lot of style. I think this might make you feel even more immersed as a jedi with these little touches. I wanna get excited every time I come across another saber-weilder.
Ok thanks for listening you guys.
I’m just gonna throw out the idea I had for saber combat a while back. I think it would be a good system for Jedi Academy.
It would be cool if the saber system was reworked so that saber combat and defense involved the use of force. It should take a certain amount of force to block and incoming shot from a saber. The amount of force it takes should depend on certain factors, like where the blow is landing, what kind of swing was used, the timing of the blow and how direct the blow was. For example, a head on light stance attack that was made from the very edge of swinging distance should take very little force to block. Heavier blows that are more direct, properly timed, and that land farther away from the center of an opponent’s defense should take more force to block accordingly. Theoretically, you should be able to block any blow provided you have enough force to do so. However, if you lack the force to block a particular blow, it would penetrate your defense. A direct red stance attack from behind should probably bypass anyone’s defense, unless maybe if they have a full force meter. Other things would be taken into account, such as if two opponents swing at the same time. If they both hit each other, then the sabers should collide and each opponent should lose force as if they both blocked. If one hits and one does not, then the person who missed should still be able the block but should lose a lot of force. This would allow for one hit kill sabers without messing up saber fighting.
This system would possibly be a great improvement over the current system for several reasons. It would help to eliminate the random feel of saber fighting by introducing a definitive system in which skillful sabering and defense was rewarded. The problem of randomness in the defensive arc would also be addresses by this system. In addition, the saber could be made so that it is extremely lethal, as in a one hit kill, and this wouldn’t create problems in dueling the way it would currently. Also, the same kind of system could work when it comes to blocking shots from guns, although less force should be required to block a shot from a gun than from a saber swing in general. This, combined with sabers that kill in basically one shot, might help to improve the balance of guns vs. sabers. In general it would be a lot more fun to play this way.
Another idea that might be nice would be to vary the effect of certain force powers on an opponent based on how much force they have. For example, a push or pull could be made to have little or no effect on someone with full force, but have a great effect on someone who has depleted his force meter. The same kind of principal could be used for other force powers as well. This might be better for gameplay and balance. Also, if this element was combined with sabering system I described above, it might make for some truly interesting and dynamic saber duels. Conservative and intelligent use of force powers along with skillful sabering would become necessary. Unintelligent abuse of force powers would leave you vulnerable.
A force based saber system would probably be better than other systems, like manual blocking. Manual blocking has inherent flaws, like when it comes to online ping. Also manual blocking faces practicality issues when it comes to gameplay. The autoblock system in place now has its own inherent flaws, like random calculations and random hack and slash fighting. A force based saber system does not have these kinds of inherent flaws. The most difficult part of implementing it would be balancing all of it. Sabers vs. guns vs. force powers would all have to be accounted for because they would all be tied together. But this is also what would make a force based system so dynamic. If enough care and attention was devoted to balance the force-based system could be totally awesome. And balance issues can always be addressed.
Well that's my idea. I think it could work out very nicely in Jedi Academy.
Ho yeah ....... Force consuming saber combat
So that when u re using the saber now u won t only have the disadvantage of having a melee weapon, but u ll also deplete your precious force meter
I can t wait to spam saber slashes on you and then to toy with ya with my full force meter powered powers :rolleyes:
Make it so and u ll see no one use saber in full force games and full weapons games........ Not that it would change a lot from now, but it would be even worse
By the way, the more i see some suggestions: the more they tend to try to do poorly what an excellent mod did perfectly ( block impossible from behind, reward for blockin full front arc, etc.... )
If i say to you the mod s name is Promod ...... does it surprises u ?? :cool:
My concern with a 'block meter' of any kind is that it would slow single player down waiting for it to recharge, and if it recharges quickly then why would we need it at all. It wouldn't come into play against a single enemy, but once you’re in a room with many you would be in serious trouble without any defense.
In multiplayer, if their is a block meter I would think that many people then would just wildly attack their opponent with their gun or saber knowing they will lower their defense shortly and leave them helpless.
In this respect lightsaber battles would become even more of a button mashing contest then they can be now. Currently in JKII if some holds down on the attack button and moves towards a saber wielding opponent it doesn't necessarily get them anywhere because the saber wielder just has to continue to block and wait for an opening to either leave or attack their attacker.
It seems like with a limited block of any kind, players would just relentlessly attack because they know they can diminish their opponent’s defenses with a constant string of attacks, with either guns or another saber.
Currently, Jedi are already defenseless against many weapons in the game such as the rocket launcher, the repeaters secondary fire, thermal detonators, etc... ( other than Force Push which is hard to time against multiple continuous attacks.) Giving a Jedi a limited block meter would render them even more defenseless. This would force Jedi players to run away more often.
Making successful blocks deplete the Force meter would just make everyone want to avoid using any force powers at all. If this were the case then they would serve little purpose for being in the game. Very few people would want to leave themselves defenseless and open to attack so they would be more averted to ever using any force powers at all, or if they did use a force power they would be forced to hide until their force meter replenishes.
As far as making the game more fun to play I don't see how a block meter could possibly help at all. It would just bog the game play down with something else to worry about rather than just being able to concentrate on the rest of the game.
I do think the number of successful block backs of laser fire should be reduced. Right now in single player at level three defense most, if not all, lasers get reflected back to the shooter. Reducing it to 1 out of 10 for level 1 defense, 1 out of 7 for level 2, and 1 out of 4 for level 3 would still encourage the player to take offensive position. Right now sometimes the player can run towards an opponent and they will be dead by the time they get to the enemy because of the high level of successful block backs.
Originally posted by Orangina_Rouge
Considering that a lot of people NEVER tried it, u can t judge if people were fans or not .... and looking at the number of servers of JO now, i can tell you that not a lot of people are still fan or playing normal JO....... all is left is people juste looking to have a boring jedi saber fight, the competitive players scene left for more interesting games :rolleyes:
Now did u actually played more than a few minutes to come up with your complaint about promod system ???
Cause looking at what you say it doesn t sound you really bothered to understand the system
Moving around does not penalize you
If i see someone standing around, then the poor guy is DEAD cause i will outmaneuver him very quickly and have a bonus to attack sin i m moving around forward Fair enough. When promod first came out, I read the description and the various threads going on at the time and decided that it wasn't something that interested me. IMO, I sounded like it was too complicated a system. Other's opinions may vary. I was perfectly happy with regular JO and wanted to stick with it.
As for the number of servers, I felt that since there was a lot of talk and advertising on these boards and elsewhere that there must have been plenty of people that have tried it. For whatever reason, it obviously hasn't caught on. To my knowledge, there are only two or three public servers that are using it. Although there are definitely fewer servers in general these days, that is still a very small percentage.
I'm not trying to say that Promod is good or bad. It isn't for me. Others may enjoy it.
How does the saber defense work right now? Can you guys tell me or point me to the right thread? I am no coder, so I am just trying to get the basic idea.
As I understand from playing JK2: JO v. 1.0 vs bots (no force, saber only):
a) one has to face the opponent and stand still to have a maximum blocking chance against a saber strike
b) there is a random chance to block a strike if your saber accidentally gets in the way of an opponents strike, but then your saber gets thrown out of "ready" position
c) the shield for auto defense is ~ 120 degrees of a sphere in front of a jedi
d) "b" is possible thanks to collision detection of the saber collision boxes
Would be nice to know if the game really acts like that or I am just imagining things:)
Wow, this thread is still alive? hmmm...
Some of you guys posted some really essay length posts back there, i was too lazy to read them...too long really :)
But just one small thing- while i'd love manual blocking, overcomplicating it will just make people hate it. So thinks like your force meter going down for each successful block is just silly (doesnt look like obi-wan made much effort blocking a sabre in ANY of the movies, and ive fought with swords before, and i dont have the force...its a pretty simple skill).
One other thing, ping wont have much of an effect on the blocking system (that i'll implement anyway) because each saber move takes about half a second to complete anyway, if ping is 300, you'll have plenty of time :) But with prediction and stuff like that, it wont make it any different from the other moves in the game.
not sure if sum 1 suggest this already since i didnt read all da post but i fink instead of a manual blocking, the secondary fire should be a manual parry, blocking can be left as it is, the only thing that needs to improve on blocking is adding more animation and a much better collison detection for saber combat.
the reason while manual blocking works in other sword fighting game (soul calibur comes into mind) is becoz of the high/mid/low attack system, and i doubt lucusart would implement sumfing this complicated....
in a manual parry, the attacker's saber would be pushed back, leaving the attacker defenseless for a monment, and giving the chance for the defender to fight back. the parry cannot be hold, so that after the parrying animation the defender is left defensely as a penalty. this would mean only a well timed parry would be rewarded.
also once parried, the attacker's movement during the staggering animation should be slow serverly or even stopped, thus avoiding the jousting issue of the game.
and off the topic here, can sum 1 point out what's so good about promod?? its trying to implement a FPS system into a sabercombat, and the increasing defense/offense based on movement just encourages even more jousting.....
I think we could have both at the same time.
How about in a training room, Kyle tells you about blocking which is manual at this time. And you have to practise with one of those sphere drone laser thingies like all the kids were doing with Yoda in AotC.
The game keeps track of how many successful block you manually employ, and very gradually increases the chance to automatically block enemy fire.
It could be like a levelling system. It takes you 100 blocks to get 10% auto chance, then another 1000 to get to 20%, or something like that. Obviously the numbers would have to be tweaked so that most people might finish the game with 60%. And the truly hardcore players might try to finish the game with less than 20% auto-blocking.
There could even be levels where one of the sub-objectives is to practise blocking, or to maybe get through it without blocking at all.
It could be like Bond where if you reach a certain threshold for not blocking, you unlock a secret level maybe, or a couple of secret character models.
ya, i hope JA has a real training part, not like the crappy 'trial' in JK2 which is not using powers for fighting in the actual game, just silly little scripted puzzles...
Spent more time, being a padawan and all, just training the lightsabre skills (like blocking sabre attacks or even laser attacks) training with weapons, and even kicks, punches or whatever hand-to-hand moves that Raven are putting in. And finally, training in force moves, in practical situations, not just puzzles- actual fights, or force move counter moves and things like that.
JK2 does have counter moves for EVERY move in the game (force powers and sabre moves, as well as every weapon) and the game should TEACH you what they are! You are a student in the Jedi Academy after all :)