How many more people are gonna comment on the comparisons between the supposed Jk3 screenshots and the jk2 screens as all a part of the same game? Just something I noticed.
Originally posted by RaptorII
Bottom line, in JK3, what I want to see, is additive lighting (a minor engine change as far as I can tell)
Actually, it's not a minor change. This is something we looked at several times during JK2 and we could not come up with a decent solution that wouldn't ruin the performance of the game (eliminating the "free pass" you get from multitexturing by combining the lightmap with the base texture) or that would have required us to, basically, re-write the renderer.
Originally posted by RaptorII
The entire source (not the engine it self) for the game, single player and multiplayer released.
We did release multiplayer. Single player was not released, but that's not our decision, it's not our game, it's LucasArts. But, I have to say, I agree with their decision. You don't release a game then release all the source for the entire game so people can make their own game for free. That's just not a sane business model... :)
Originally posted by RaptorII
Model animation source and format data
Again, we released everything we could and we tried release something that would allow people to make their own animations, but the process was too arcane and the tools to expensive and exotic. We put a lot of thought into it (for both JK2 and SoFII) but it just didn't work out. Believe me, we would have loved to have made it easy if we could have. From what I understand, we released some info and gave some people the almost 700MB of anim data needed to make their own animations and rebuild our humanoid skeleton with those new anims, but no-one was quite able to get it working.
what are the chances of getting support for other 3d software packages like maya this time around? I wanted to make a few models/animations for JO, but lack of maya related tools kind of halted that.
*My bad, now that I thought about what I just asked I see theres no way you can answer that right now since nothing has been announced.
Chang Wrote
Again, we released everything we could and we tried release something that would allow people to make their own animations, but the process was too arcane and the tools to expensive and exotic. We put a lot of thought into it (for both JK2 and SoFII) but it just didn't work out. Believe me, we would have loved to have made it easy if we could have. From what I understand, we released some info and gave some people the almost 700MB of anim data needed to make their own animations and rebuild our humanoid skeleton with those new anims, but no-one was quite able to get it working.
You never sent me the files like you said you would of done, so I couldnt do anything with it.
Anyhow, glad to see you back on the forums Mike,
You don't release a game then release all the source for the entire game so people can make their own game for free. That's just not a sane business model
Does this mean they might release the code?
Anyhow, Im more intrested in the editing tools than the game, what are we likely to see this time?
Anakin
Originally posted by matt-windu
Everyone keep in mind that April Fools day is less than 2 days away.
Matt, dude, Mike Gummelts here, IN THIS THREAD, pretty much confirming it....
Pessimistic bastard you are :P
So Mike, what can you tell us? :)
Originally posted by GonkH8er
Matt, dude, Mike Gummelts here, IN THIS THREAD, pretty much confirming it....
Pessimistic bastard you are :P
lol- only you
If Mike is about this would explain a few things as well, which I cannot discuss about, but this has put the JK3 firmly on the release map for the fall, but remember also JK2 was going to be done before March of last year. So expect maybe Winter 2003.
Originally posted by Prime
You might still be able to find the JK1 and MOTS pack around somewhere. Since you are looking for a female lead for SW, I suggest you try it if you can. It is a great game!
Funny enough, I was looking for JK1 and MOTS only last week (I plan on kicking Rhett's but at JK1 MP :D ). I'm still looking for a bargain, but I'm definately getting it.
I hope lightsabers work in water again in JK3... and we get proper swimming animations. ; )
Still alive.... old friend!
im not so keen on haveing lightsabers work under water, the jury is still out on that, but i would like some swimming animations similar to JK1 :D
I loved sabering people under water. I too hope it comes back. :)
Hurry up, leXX. :D
Sorry everyone for posting so much stuff about my web site. I'm just really exided about this game! I thought it would be ok because this is a jediknight ii web site and mine is jedi knight iii. Sorry again. Any who.
I hope you can't turn your saber on under whater. That wouldn't be true to the movies.
I suppose Mike puts any question if this is fake or not to rest :)
Who wants to make a friendly bet. I bet 50 of my points that JKIII is real. Any takers?
i got a question... is htere going to be a possibility of zabrak or wookie race as the main character? and uhh there was another race.... sassae tiins perhaps?? (dont remember the name of that)
Originally posted by Lord_Plo_Koon
Who wants to make a friendly bet. I bet 50 of my points that JKIII is real. Any takers?
Who wants to bet? You've heard everything from Mike, what more could you want from a programmer of the game?
And another question, are you positive that it's going to be on the Quake 3 engine again ?
I do know you can pick from most of the characters in the game, similar to Star Wars Galaxies.
Speaking of SWG. At first I thought this was a hoax and they took pics from SWG. Now I think i'm wrong.
I didn't see that dev say anything about JKIII. If he did could someone point it out to me?
Children, children... :rolleyes:
Read what Mike said again. Count how many times he mentions "JK3". That's right, he doesn't say ANYTHING concerning the assumed sequel, he only comments on the structure of the engine concerning lighting and the MP source code and stuff they released for development for JO. Don't get me wrong, I want this thing to be true as much as you do, but just because ChangKHAN was here commenting on the engine and the development tools of JO doesn't mean it is true!
well aren't you a 'the glass is half empty' kinda guy :p
i'm sorry but with all the buzz & the screenshots it's hard for me to believe that this isn't true. plus i think if it wasn't then ChangKHAN would have said something... like 'hang on guys you're being premature in your celebrations'
If it is an april's fool day joke, I'd guess a lot of people, including me, would be disappointed. But look at the facts: isn't this fall (according to jediknight2.net) a lil' too optmistic?
:yobi:
Originally posted by Sivy B
well aren't you a 'the glass is half empty' kinda guy :p
It might seem so, but not really. Just maybe in this case though.
[i]Originally posted by Sivy B [/i)
...i think if it wasn't then ChangKHAN would have said something... like 'hang on guys you're being premature in your celebrations'
True, true... Didn't think about that. Thanks for pointing it out for me though. But so far I haven't made my mind up on either option. Could still be true or not.
Originally posted by AlzWisHum
isn't this fall (according to jediknight2.net) a lil' too optmistic?
depends,
they could of started doing it awhile ago.
most games nowadays get pushed back, so i won't be surprised if it was.
Hoax or not, this news certainly got ppl back to their JO :D At least I'm totally excited again :)
But for as far as I've seen, it will be finished in fall 2003, but sceduled for a 2004 release :confused: :confused: :confused: That would be very annoying... anywayz, I want it and I want it SOOOON!!!
http://members.lycos.nl/hertogjan45/hjsw.jpg)
I think we need to stop focusing on the positives and ignoring the negatives. Look at both equally. I have yet to see a "screenshot" that could not have been faked on Paint Shop Pro. And the text in the shots looks Deutch or Danish? I don't mean any disrespect but, since when does LucasArts beta test there?
It's awfully close to April Fools day hint hint hint!!!!!!!!!!
I will believe it when i see LucasArts do a press release. ;(
Originally posted by griff38
And the text in the shots looks Deutch or Danish?
Cause its from a german pc magazine called gamestar :rolleyes:
I don't mean any disrespect but, since when does LucasArts beta test there?
Now I dont know anything about this gamestar but apparently (from what I've seen in this thread) they seem to be very good at getting info on games first...
I personnly think its for real. And if it is, I hope Mon Calamari is one of the selectable races... and if it's a fake... I BOMB GAMESTAR!! j/k
Originally said by Han Solo
C'mon lets keep a little optimistic :D
Originally posted by Sivy B
depends,
they could of started doing it awhile ago.
Maybe, I dunno. But on this fall with only 60 % done?
Even working 8 hours/day it doens't seem real to me. With beta testing, and post production and all...
The site/game mag review also points out something weird on this:
"And here comes the best part: According to Raven, JK III is 60% done, including story, scripts and levels. So, if everything goes well, you will be able to play it this fall!"
:confused:
Doesn't they usually lay out the whole thing before even bothering coding it? Maybe bad translation on this, or maybe they're using another technique since they already have a good engine, but...
This is one of those rare times I wish I'm wrong. :D :confused: :rolleyes:
You know with all these cries of hoax/not hoax/april fools. Why did no-one think to actually check ravens website. I found this on the forums, in about five seconds. Hint:
www.ravensoft.com)
Rickmus, Senior Programmer of Raven Software says: It is real - not an April Fools joke... Maybe ChangKhan can confirm or deny this statment, Although I kinda think it is real.
Also, Activision/Lucasarts DID announce the game last month. Now Gamestar have some more news, and most of the time they are gamestar do get it right.
and finally: Who cares what engine it is, as long as the game is GOOD. Hell I'd play it if it used the Doom engine (The 1993 engine for those not so fast :P) and the game was fun to play :P
Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]
... Er, cropped for length.
Okay, then. Other than the comment about the ... not a business model I can't say I can argue with that. I never heard of any follow ups on the animation source, and so was going blind on that... and well, I guess I look like an ass not realizing that the Q3 engine saves a pass by rendering the dynamic lighting coupled in with other things.
I did figure (But don't think I really got it across) that if it wasn't something as "simple" as opening up the code, and switching the GL function, it would require something like rewriting the renderer, but realized that as far as anyone was concerned, (Lucas Arts, and you Raven folks) it wouldn't be worth the effort.
I hope I don’t come off as a total ass when I say that I don’t think JK2 was exactly made in mind for major mods, or even real single player mods, hence the lack of any SP code being released (which I figured wasn't Raven's call but again probably didn't make that clear). So with that in mind, I mean, it wouldn't be worth rewriting just so you could have a few dark places lit with a saber.
Still, it was a thought, and I am glad to hear that it was actually looked into. On top of that, it makes me feel a bit better about other games using the Quake3 engine, knowing that they probably did look into that.
Again, I am glad to hear about the animation thing though, I was under the impression that it wasn't even considered, as again I hadn't seen any follow-ups on modeling sites. (Such as Polycount, where I heard about the problem to begin with.) I suppose I can't argue with it just being too much of an in-house tool, I have seen things that border on those lines for Homeworld.
Honestly, I never expected the post to be read by anyone, especially not from Raven, let alone for someone from Raven to actually address the things I mentioned.
As far as the Single Player code being released, I suppose that might be a bit much, especially from Lucas Art’s point of view with a licensed product such as JK2. But I guess we sort of see the idea of mods a bit differently. Lucas Arts and your self might see them as totally free games that can only hurt the long-term finances with sequels, I see them as a way to hook people into the game even if they weren’t gung-ho for the main game it self. I hate, (and trust me, I really do) to bring up Half-Life, but just imagine how many people bought it just to play mods, of course Sierra quickly picked up on it, and began to squeeze for all it was worth, but it worked. Although it may not be the best of examples, due to it only having multiplayer, but if it weren’t for mods, I wouldn’t have purchased Quake3.
I see some really ambitious mods being made for JK2 as it is, and I can’t commend the people enough, but I can see, and at times read about the problems they are having. I suppose though, much of them revolve around new weapon code, and animations.
Again, I see them as life extenders, but I don’t know “the plan” for the series, and I suppose if JK3 is “supposed” to be finished within the next year, the need for community made life extenders, might be seen as things that might prevent people from buying JK3. I can only see what the public sees, so when I formed the ideas that I wrote just the other day, I had no idea of what “the plan” was. Why let people make competition to a game you want out just a year and a half later?
--
I could be waaaay off on a few things, and I am sure at a few points I sound/read like an ass... it really isn’t supposed to be so. Honestly, I am just glad to actually have answers from someone who is actually inside, and I thank you for that.
My issues were addressed, and although I think there might be a little room for ideological arguments on the single player code issue, I think I can safely concede my issues. It is nice to see that I wasn’t really crazy, and you guys (and gals) did look into them during and after development.
Sure it sounds all corny and such, but keep up the good work. I’m looking forward to both projects in development at Raven, assuming that Activision’s slip, wasn’t just a setup for an elaborate multi-corporation April Fools joke. :)
Thanks,
Sean
Originally posted by LorD_BaZ
You know with all these cries of hoax/not hoax/april fools. Why did no-one think to actually check ravens website. I found this on the forums, in about five seconds. Hint:
www.ravensoft.com)
Maybe ChangKhan can confirm or deny this statment, Although I kinda think it is real.
Hehe, yes, check this thread:
http://forums.ravensoft.com/ib/ikonboard.pl?;act=ST;f=7;t=19292;hl=jedi+knight+3)
Or maybe he was joking too :( MAYBE IT'S ONE BIG CONSPIRACY!! AAAAARGH!!!
Yup, that is the thread I was referring to. That's why I asked the guy from raven who posted in this thread to make a statement on it that comment as well, just in case. I fully believe that JK3 is real and rickmus was not joking.
Originally posted by Jolts
This is just how I feel about games, I hate to see jedi fans keep getting ripped in this genre of gaming.I also agree that graphics are an important element to any game, but if you feel that JO and the JK series in general is ripping people off, I fear that you will always be disappointed...
Originally posted by Valcron
Is this **** still using the Quake 3 engine? If it is, that sucks, it's time to move away from that crap...This ****? I think JK3 will probably be better than ****. And moving from one engine to another is not like changing a pair of pants. Apart from the financial investment in paying for the license of the engine, there are all the tools and knowledge developed for that engine. Switching to a new engine can be a huge undertaking.
Originally posted by wassup
Why don't everyone stop dissing the Quake 3 engine and start some real discussion about JKIII. It seems nowadays, after the WOW factor is over, people turn to ranting...Ah, welcome to the boards known as Lucasforums! Ranting is a way of life around here :)
Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]
We did release multiplayer.Welcome back to the boards and thanks for explaining that :) Frankly, you guys have gone above and beyond the call of duty in terms of helping out the community. It is appreciated, even if all you see around here are rants.
Originally posted by T-Dogg
Children, children...
Read what Mike said again. Count how many times he mentions "JK3". That's right, he doesn't say ANYTHING concerning the assumed sequel, he only comments on the structure of the engine concerning lighting and the MP source code and stuff they released for development for JO. Don't get me wrong, I want this thing to be true as much as you do, but just because ChangKHAN was here commenting on the engine and the development tools of JO doesn't mean it is true!While there may infact not be a new game in the works, the fact that Mike didn't mention it means nothing. Since there has been no official announcement from Lucasarts, he will be legally obligated not to say anything.
Originally posted by AlzWisHum
Even working 8 hours/day it doens't seem real to me. With beta testing, and post production and all...LOL, 8 hours a day? I assume you don't work in the gaming or software industry. :) Try 12 to 14 hours a day...
Originally posted by Prime
<snip>
LOL, 8 hours a day? I assume you don't work in the gaming or software industry. :) Try 12 to 14 hours a day...
Yes I am (my games aren't, of course, that good though, all kept in my humble budget, zero that is ;) ). And I am also a general software programmer by trade.
When every person works up to 12-14 hours on something per day, you got yourself a bad project leadership, doen't matter how tight is the schedule, unless you're paying Ferraris in custom.
Keep in mind that if your programmers (and in games we're talking about teams sometimes) are stressed as hell they'll come out with zip, will make more mistakes, and occasionally try to kill each other...
It's still unreal (not the game ;)) sorry, 40 % in 6 or 7 months is a real underestimation of the difficulty of that task.
Hmm... looks legit to me... however it does look very similar to JK2... from those shots it looks more like JK2.5... perhaps its an expansion pack?
Either way I don't mind, just as long as they aren't my tusken raiders or spacermonkeys twilek in those shots :P
Originally posted by AlzWisHum
It's still unreal (not the game ;)) sorry, 40 % in 6 or 7 months is a real underestimation of the difficulty of that task.
Er...you do know that Jedi Outcast took just over a year from start to finish to complete, don't you? They also knocked out Heretic II in a very short time.
Keep in mind that Raven have a team of over 70 people, usually working on 3 projects at a time...so they would probably allocate 20-25 people to each project when it's in full swing. That's 200 man-hours per day...and over the course of 6 months you're talking 36,500 man hours.
Considering they would be building on the work they already did for Jedi Outcast in terms of engine modification, a further 6 or 7 months of development time doesn't sound unrealistic to me.
As far as using the Q3:TA engine goes...they have a wealth of experience using it. Switching to another engine as a development platform takes time in getting your team up to speed with all it's nuances. As for using something like the Unreal engine...they would have to have a very good reason to make the $500,000 dollar licensing fee investment, and be willing to spend additional time and resources in training their staff to use it effectively, and then have to modify it anyway to suit their particular needs. That's a huge chunk of time...and time is money. That is one of the reasons why I think Quake IV is going to take them longer than usual to develop...because they have probably allocated a chunk of the team to gen-up on the new DOOM engine. Meanwhile they still have to make games to pay their way. It makes sense to build on what you already have...but try to push your existing engine to the limits of what it can possibly do by continually modifying it.
As I've said before, I'm not necessarily a fan of the Q3 tech...it seems to have a lot of inherent problems that require work-arounds. Other engines do have better capabilities, and I do think that Q3 is approaching the end of it's useful shelf-life for high-profile titles. I'll frankly be very interested to see what Raven can achieve by tweaking the new DOOM engine to meet their requirements...
I think its quite a sad factor that the gaming public demands an engine upgrade for a sequal these days
"OMG JK3 more like JK2.5 cause JK3 would use a different engine" that kinda crap
Why not, if JKII came out a year after quake3 was released and we were on JK4 right now and still on the quake3 engine, I wouldn't care one bit.
The fact of the matter is, Im still using my computer that I upgraded to get some performance out of quake3 just a new graphics card cause I fried 2 geforce 1's
800 Mhz, 256Ram and a Geforce4 Ti-4200 (total crap) 125 frames Per Second on Quake3
and in SP and MP JK2 it drops to about 15-20 and maxes out on 60FPS
Same engine? I don't think so, Modified Engine Yeah
Raven has alot of experience with Quake3 engine so why upgrade and to what engine? UT2K??? why bother paying out for another engine, thats less not as good as the doom3 engine?? which they'll be using later for quake4?
so here's what I say, If your not satisfied with the Quake3 Engine or its games anymore, don't buy them just be quietly disapointed that raven is making JK3 that don't reach your standards, heh I won't care I'll be playing it
so insulting the quake3 engine is insulting Id's work on making it, and creating quake3 and insulting Ravens hard work in modifing it to bring you great games like SOF2 and JO and I really hope they decide to go with the name
Jedi Knight 3
and maybe they'll start a trend of standalone sequal products like the did in the old days
Originally posted by Anakin
[i]You never sent me the files like you said you would of done, so I couldnt do anything with it.
I wasn't, personally, the one who was trying to work with modders in respect to making custom animations, so I doubt I promised anyone I'd send them that 700MB of anim data... :)
Originally posted by RaptorII
I hope I don’t come off as a total ass when I say that I don’t think JK2 was exactly made in mind for major mods, or even real single player mods
Nah, I understand, you made some very good points. Believe me, I believe in mods, that's how I got into the business - I made Doom and Quake mods and submitted them to Raven as a sort of resume and got hired... :)
Here, ChangKhan[RAVEN], have some credits... Programmers need to eat and drink sometimes too right??? Now go ahead and make me a cool sequel, worthy to the Star Wars saga. I don't care what engine, it's just that I can't get enough of SW gaming!!
Is Kyle going to replaced by a female twi'lek padawan, or do you create your own player for SP and MP? :confused:
It would be nice if SP and MP combat were similar. ;)
Originally posted by AlzWisHum
Yes I am (my games aren't, of course, that good though, all kept in my humble budget, zero that is ;) ). And I am also a general software programmer by trade.
When every person works up to 12-14 hours on something per day, you got yourself a bad project leadership, doen't matter how tight is the schedule, unless you're paying Ferraris in custom.
Keep in mind that if your programmers (and in games we're talking about teams sometimes) are stressed as hell they'll come out with zip, will make more mistakes, and occasionally try to kill each other...
It's still unreal (not the game ;)) sorry, 40 % in 6 or 7 months is a real underestimation of the difficulty of that task. I am a hobbiest programmer myself :) and a professional software designer as well. Certainly, most software projects aren't planned to have people working ridiculous hours, but sometimes due to problems and deadlines, these hours cannot be avoided. But your point about planning is well taken :)
I know that in general game programmers (who are usually younger and probably single) tend to work more hours than your standard software guy. Sleeping in the office, etc. is not all that uncommon. Indeed, it is not a lifestyle that people can handle forever...
Originally posted by Hиekx Nтoxuъ
Is Kyle going to replaced by a female twi'lek padawan, or do you create your own player for SP and MP? According to the reports, you will be able to create your own character.
I wonder how they are going to handle cutscenes, I mean; in JO you here "Kyle, what's your current position?" (or something similar, can't think of an example now). When your're able to create your own character, how can they make cutscenes?? And they'll have to make both male and female sounds, think of all the lines those poor voiceactors must record :)
The same way they do EVERY cutscene in any game with customizable characters. By not making your character speak, and referring to your character as you/him/her/it :P Or... good ol' fashioned TEXT, like the rest of the lazy companies!! You can't spell every crazy name someone makes up!
they should make a synthesised realtime voice so its adaptable ;)
khlaw? lol. i like text heh
Like in Counter Strike, make using your microphone possible. Very good idea
Oh well I think voicecomm should be standard in all the games, Valve really did a good job with the voicecomm in HL / CS / DoD etc :)
But I don't think it will be important for JK3 (or any JK game), since it's a pretty individual game, even in CTF...
Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]
We did release multiplayer. Single player was not released, but that's not our decision, it's not our game, it's LucasArts. But, I have to say, I agree with their decision. You don't release a game then release all the source for the entire game so people can make their own game for free. That's just not a sane business model... :)
You say that you don't want people making free games, as its not a good business model. But the JK2 EULA states that any modification or released level for the game becomes property of Raven/LEC (can't remember the exact wording). So even if we actually managed to make a competitive total conversion, you can seize its assets at any time you want.
A more intriguing implication of your comment, is that Raven or LEC are actually worried about the financial consequences of letting a few kids who have NEVER MET play around with a game and try and make an enjoyable mod. If the aforementioned companies are so convinced that is a valid concern, they really need to reassess their quality standards.
Besides, an SDK isn't the source code to the entire game. We wouldn't have access to the original Quake 3 engine code, or any of the additions Raven made. We would have the same kind of limitations as the multiplayer SDK. Afterall its not exactly within our power to release a standalone multiplayer game either.
From past information Its obvious that you wanted to release as much as possible for modders, but the reasoning behind being unable to has generally not made a lot of sense. Especially when other gaming companies have made their fortune from making games easy to mod.
Look at Half Life, a pretty good singleplayer game, boring multiplayer, yet many years later its still getting sales and that's thanks to the wealth of mods available. These days its more likely that you're committing financial suicide by not making a game easy to mod.
Anyway, that's my two shiny pennies.
Only a couple of hours left till April 1st! Soon we'll know what all the hooplah is about!