Just for future reference, Shad... the brush limit for the map is something like 65-70,000, so you're in no danger of pushing the brush limit even if it's 10,000 with the Museum.
However, since high brush counts mean long compiles, I suggest an alternative to ditching areas. Here's my ideas:
A - Every section of the map goes in for the RPG version of the map (since action isn't the main focus here, a lower fps due to the size isn't as much of an issue); for the FFA version, we make some necessary cuts of sections without use (Museum, Clinic, etc)
B - Every section of the map goes in for the RPG, just like in my first idea, but no FFA version of the map is created. If there's a request for it, perhaps we can do a duel map pack or something.
I think A is the best choice but I have no problem with B.
*roots for FFA version*
A! A! A!
I personally wouldnt want to see any of it go,but if something must I vote for the museum as it just wouldnt work for every kind of rpg I could use every other location in my rpgs.
Hey Shad, why on the site does it say (in the Commenor Locations section) that the Reactor is 70% complete and the Museum is finished and connected? Do you know something I don't? ;)
Yes, indeed I know something you dont - you're eyes are slightly skewed. I just chcked it, ,and it looks fine to me. :)
I've been thinking about your options, Aru, and I think you've got the right idea. I'll go with option A for now (All for you Wedge! :) )and only go to B if I really run out of steam.
I've also been thinking I've been going about doing the streets all wrong. Normally, I've been laying out EVERYthing, connecting up EVERYthing, THEN texturing areas.
This approach isn't going to work with this map... it's sheer size is beginning to bog down my system. GTK plods along on movement pretty badly, so texturing it AFTER it's all laid out is not gonna work.
SO!
I'll be restarting the street areas. I'm going to get them fully laid out, textured, and ready BEFORE I start adding in the other locations. That way, ,all I'll have to do is get doors working (and textured), place items, and compile. As an added benefit, You'll all get those screenshots of the streets you have all, no doubt, been wishing to see.
I'll keep everyone posted on how it's going, naturally.
Oh, for reality's sake - does anyone know of a speeder or other such vehicle that is in the md3 format? I'll use a prefab if I have to but I'd prefer md3.
*and there was much rejoicing*
"...yaaaaaaaaaaaay..."
You could always turn texture detail down to speed things up in Gtk.
Some of the pcgamemods files are md3's, despite being labelled "prefabs," for example,
http://www.pcgamemods.com/file.php?id=e2c0be24560d78c5e599c2a9c9d0bbd2) appears to be a model.
I found a TYPE of speeder...looks like the sh!t so I figured you could use it.
http://pcgamemods.com/file.php?id=33e8075e9970de0cfea955afd4644bb2)
OK. Good news, Bad news time.
Good News. THe streets are completely laid out and textured.
Bad News - It doesnt work in game. Error is : NULL Poly-shader
I've heard of that being a problem in SP, but not in MP... any thoughts?
Hmm... I'm not familiar with that error, Shad. Is it what it sounds like?
OK, I got it all figured out. I's always been under the impresion that that error happened because you were using to many shader FILES. THis, ,apparently, was incorrect. It's how many surfaces a shader is applied TOO that causes this.
SO, thats fixed.
In other news, the Museum has been dropped. Aru just got fed up with it, thought what work he'd done so far is rather shoddy, and, after discussion, we decided to drop it like a ton of bricks.
Which means I now have all the areas, and I am now making the final connections prior to Beta.
COntrary to a previous post, the Beta will NOT be done by RA. THere was a small issue there, so I'll be needing testers. Volunteers will be nice. :)
me plz plz plz plz plz plz if so Ill let you in on my super secret project(s) (Im making two sorta you seem like you might like them...er wait I just remeberd 3 projects!) I would love to beta map my email is lordsod521@hotmail.com let me know there if i got accepted or on my Roleplaying Clubs Forums I run RPI (
http://www.roleplayersinc.com/)
PLEASE PLEASE IVE BEEN FOLLOWING THIS MAP FROM BEGINING I'D LOVE TO TEST YOUR MAP
*snip* !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok got a little excited there lol, but can I please test the map?
Hey There,
I dunno why I didn't post in here sooner :rolleyes: maybe it is because Im always talking on MSN with Shadriss :p Anyways, just to add, I left RA due to some Real Life Issues and Shadriss mentioned that since this map wasnt contracted with them it would follow me. His call. Not to worry though, either way it will be a super cool map.
Have a nice day.
I put some comments for you up on the BETA RPG_Commenor thread at pcgamemods.com.
I saw that and answered it already. And, for those who are confused, I have a partiually complete BETA up on PCGameMods... Check it out! :)
Looks really good shadriss :D But do landspeeders really need the yellow dotted lines on the road :p
Originally posted by FuzzyCrimmy
Looks really good shadriss :D But do landspeeders really need the yellow dotted lines on the road :p
SO long as there is traffic, there will be bad drivers.
So long as there are bad drivers, ,there will be ways to keep people from hitting other people. Hence, we have lines. SO there. :p
Just a thought, Shad. Have you considered adding something like tunnels (that could have clip placed over them to prevent access) or a road that curves off out of sight to increase the feeling of the size of the city? With the roads closed off like that, how could there even be "cars" (aka landspeeders) in that area?
Wouldn't take much time to do it.
Already thought of, and it WILL be implemented... just as soon as I figure out which end of the three is going to be open. This is only one small little area, naturally... I'm thinking almost like a "city inside the alley" idea. I think I already know which one it's gonna be, be I still need to get it all put in the map, so...
Put it at the long end of the T-section. Please excuse the bad Ascii drawing here.
--------------------
. |
. |
. |
. |
. |
. |
Put the tunnel/curved thing at this end.
Hope it shows up! :D
Why not just get on MSN so we can talk it out? You DO remember how to get on MSN, right?
Originally posted by Aru-Wen
With the roads closed off like that, how could there even be "cars" (aka landspeeders) in that area?
Wouldn't take much time to do it.
Now, do you mean stationary car models, or cars that whiz around on the streets? (OTS cargo ship style :))
If I actually put any in (so far, ,only the swoop md3 fits the scale that I've found) they'd be stationary. No point in making this map any more complex that it already is.
Added the bar into the mix tonight (on the second floor, ,no less) and it's still looking very good. I also fixed the problem in the arena where you could see the streets through the skybox of the arena. And a few other small things.
Tommorrow, the Library should go in, and, If I have the time, the Hotel as well, and that would close out that branch of the road system.
TTFN, guys.
It's all in. It's all connected. (It's STILL compiling! :D)
I've done one or two test compiles, and there may be a problem with releasing it as an FFA - FPS. I'm not sure why (Looking into it) but the FPS went through the floor on the last compile. I've added in the areaportals (finally) and that should help. My other theory is that the music file is taking up too much memory. If that prooves to be the case, it's going away. Which is too bad, since Aru-Wen chose a very nice piece from "Fifth Element".
More news tommorrow... the full BETA should be avaliable soon... maybe even Saturday, thougth PCGameMods.
Well, ,I know what the problem is now. I dont know WHY theres a problem, but at least I know what it is.
Even with areaportals in the map, the engine is drawing EVERYTHING in the map at once. No WONDER the FPS went through the floor.
Anyone with any ideas, now's the time.
If I were you I would try to load the map in SP and see if the whole map is drawn. If it is, then something about the compile. If not, then something about the MP engine.
Perhaps you might consider adding hint brushes into the mix to improve the FPS, Shad? If you haven't already, that is.
When I said everything was being drawn, that was because I HAD gone into the SP side to take a look. EVERYTHING was being drawn. Makes very little sence. Why would the compile set it up like that?
As for hint brushes, if the AREAPORTALS arent working properly, why would hint brushes?
True.
Hehh, I though that you just took a look with r_showtris on in MP, sorry.
I'm sure there are leaf nodes in the map which can't be seen from an other one directly because of structural brushes between them, so without areaportals one should be not drawn if you are standing in the other. That's why I think there is something more serious. However no idea what can be wrong if the whole VIS phase gone through.
I would like to begin this post with the following statement :
I AM AN IDIOT!
That said, I will now explain why this is so.
Ok, this is a couple of problems. First, I had to shut down direct BSP monitoring, due to the fact that with a map this large, GTK and Q3Map2 kept loosing synch going into lighting. Since I did this, the compile process did NOT STOP when a leak was located.
Yes, this whole problem is because of a STUPID LEAK!
Now, I figured that out, I turned on the moniotring again so I could see that wonderful pointfile. It showed up... in an area that had NOTHING in it. Oh, there USED to be something there, but there wasnt now.
Or so I thought.
When I deleted that area, I forgot that I had lights FILTERED FROM VIEW! And as we all know, what you can't see, you can't delete. SO I had about 20 or so light entities out there, all alone in the void, just leaking over EVERYTHING. If a map leaks, ,it doesnt make a PRT file. If there is no PRT file, VIS cant do it's job.
And thus, oh mighty mappers, we see what a huge PAIN IN THE BUTT those teeny tiny leaks can be, and why one should always make sure all filters are off before deleting areas.
The current compile is underway, and baring any other STUPID mistake, I should be able to send this for BETA either tonight or tommorrow morning. So watch for it on PCGameMods soon!
And remember it IS a Beta - I'll want feedback here! Especially on weapons placement for the FFA version (this means YOU Wedge!).
:D
Don't you just LOVE mapping?
OK. The news at 10pm (EST).
THe map is in it's final BETA compile as we speak. As soon as it's done, I wrpa it all up nice and pretty, and send it to Sergio over at PCGameMods. WIth any luck, he'll have it up toot-sweet, and you can all begin to enjoy this beast of a map.
From the numerical side, this thing weighs in at just over 16 Mg of map, textures, and shaders. Not bad, really... DOTF was closer to 20. It used 11806 brushes, and more curves than you can shake a stick at. (If you couldnt tell that last from the screenshots, you are blind.)
I'm sure there are a few errors out there to be found and fixed, so I want feedback on that soon. FIND THEM! LET US ELIMINATE THE CANCER FROM AMONG US! *trails off...* Wait... this isnt a political rally....
Talk at you all later - and enjoy.
It not up on PCGameMods yet, but it IS up on the Site.
www.ramapping.moonfruit.com)
Enjoy, and be sure to post feedback here!
Downloading now...the procrastination of my homework will commence shortly. :D
Here are some bugs that I discovered.
First, in the clinic, the windows on the bacta tanks are all shiny and look kinda like a rainbow effect.
Second, in the reactor, there is no floor. It's like the noclip effect.
Third, In the detention center, if you go to the prison chambers when the doors go up ( which has no sounds ) and look on the floor, you see some z fighting.
Fourth, alot of the doors in this map have no sound. I went to the hotel and the doors have no sound.
Fifth, in the general store weapons display, you can grab the weapons right through the glass, which is kinda unrealistic. But the spot where the health, thermal detonators, and binoculars is, is fine though.
Sixth, in the spaceport, in one of the elevators, ( I didn't try all the elevators so I dunno if it's just one or if it's more) in the elevator crack you see the noclip effect.
That's all for now, I'll look into it in more detail later.
Okay, I ust finished giving it a thorough run-down. First thing I want to say is, I DID enjoy it. It's very well detailed, and I'm sure the layout is great for RPG-style games. Second thing I want to say is, every time I tried to take a screenshot, it crashed to the main menu and told me, "ERROR: Hunk_AllocTempMemory: failed on 3145736" so I have to describe the bugs I found in clunky words. I hope this doesn't sound overly critical, but here goes...
[list=1] The doors inside the hotel/detention center/armory/spaceport are silent.
The bench models in the arena and spaceport don't have clip brushes around them.
HOM in the glass on the sealed bacta tanks in the clinic.
The curves don't match up on the bookcase ends in the library, you can see through tem from the right angle.
The stairs in the library don't have clip brushes on them (to make the player ascend at a nice angle).
I couldn't get at the weapons in the armory. I thought the buttons on the desk might open those glass cylinders, but they didn't do anything.
Some textures aren't aligned in the elevators in the spaceport.
HOM under the reactor catwalks.
You can jump down from the reactor catwalks and then look up through the catwalks (the undersides of the walkways aren't textured).
The buttons underneath the schematics in the reactor control room are floating in space without support.
There isn't any sound made when I use a button. While this isn't a big problem, in some cases something happens after a delay from when I push the use key...so it would be nice to know that I have actually pressed something.
[/list=1]
Hope those can get resolved for the final version!
I basically encountered the same problems that they reported.
I do have a question though: Did you guys manage to create a switch that would turn off the power of the city :D?
I found one thing: at the spaceport the walls are textured with that hangardoor texture wich has two lights on it. It's OK, but if you take look at the windows where the waiting room is, the texture just not looks good as it shows up around the windows.
Thanks for the list Wedge. I'll address a couple of those now, since they arent errors.
The bench models in the arena and spaceport don't have clip brushes around them.
This was intentional. Remember, this is for the RPG version. The SIT emote doesnt look right unless the player actually can be almost inside the model. So, no clip brush. For the FFA version, those probobly wont even be in there.
The stairs in the library don't have clip brushes on them (to make the player ascend at a nice angle).
They did until JUST before the Beta Compile. I got several "degenerate surface" warnings about those brushes (probobly how I made them) and I had to take them out. THey WILL be back in when it's finalized.
I couldn't get at the weapons in the armory. I thought the buttons on the desk might open those glass cylinders, but they didn't do anything.
Again, Intentional. In the OmniModRPGFull, you are able to actually buy weapons via CVARs. I built the level with that mod in mind, and so I didn't want people to just waltz in and GRAB a weapon they should be paying for. Again, in the FFA version, the weapons will be more spread out, and not blocked off like that.
As for some of the other errors, Sometimes they are there after a compile, sometimes they arent. I'm not sure why this is. That HOM under the catwalks for example - that SHOULD be a greenish fog. And you should suffer a falling death once you go beneath the catwalks. Hence, the other problem about HOM under the catwalks shouldn't even be a problem either. *shrug*
I'm looking into it all, in addition to some other changes. Again, thanks for the feedback thus far.
Edit : No, Pnut. We didn't incorperate that. Mostly because Q3Map2 (the version packed with GTK1.2.11 anyway) still doesnt support dynamic lighting. Maybe, ,sometime in the future, I'll do something sadistic like that.
Just got around to playing it. I think it looks great, Shad. A couple of minor errors, but nothing you can't fix before the final.
If you want to send me the final map just so I can help you error check it, feel free. Sort of like "proofreading" an essay, no? ;)
As far as the Reactor floor goes, I think there's an issue with the trigger brush that causes the falling death interacting with the fog brush. I had the same problem when building it, and I had to play around, adjusting the distance between the two brushes before it got worked out.
Again, if you need me to help, you know where to find me.
Aru - would you be overly heartbroken if we lost teh fog? It should be dark enough that it shouldnt cause a problem anyways.
Not truly heartbroken, but without the fog it just looks a little 'blah' in my opinion.
Lose it if necessary, but make sure to keep my "screaming death" brush intact. :D
Comments:
Many doors are soundless
Some curves don't line up
No falldeath in reactor
Reactor floor is HOM
Underside of catwalk is caulked
Questions:
Where'd you get that kickass music? :D
:) That music is from The fifth element. When the girl escapes the lab and goes out to the city.
OK, guys. I was on Duty last night, so I didnt get a chancec to get any work done then. BUT! Before I went to work on Monday morning, I did take all the feedback and work the problems. I'll take the one at a time.
Silent Doors
They all have sound now. I still plan to go through and give each area set a different set of door sounds, but for now they all use the generic soundset.
Clip Brushes for the Benches/Lights/md3s
As explained in an earlier post, most of this was intentional. The only md3's I gave clips to were md3s that I would not reasonably expect someuse to try to sit on. In the FFA Version, most of these md3's will be removed as distractions.
HOM Clinic Bacta Tanks Glass
THis is me being lazy and stupid. Originally, as you recall, all four tanks were supposed to be operational. I changed that to one, and turned the others back to normal brushes. And forgot to make them detail. :)
Bookcase Curves Misaligned (Library)
This was sheer stupidity on my part. I dont know HOW i thought those were well made to begin with. So I scrapped them and rebuilt them. THey work now. There is much rejoicing.
Clip Brushes for Library Stairs
Fixed. Again, t his was something that I changed at the last minute and forgot to put back in.
Weapons in the Armory
As I noted, this is a Beta of the RPG version of the map. I refer you to my previous post on this... I have however, altered it so that NONE of the weapons can be grabbed from the displays.
Spaceport Elevator Texture Issues
Button Sounds for Doors/Elevator Calls
I group those together because they were handled at the same time. I changed the trigger_multiple setup I was using to a Func_Button setup. It now makes sounds to let you know it's been pressed. In addition, those shafts have all been re-textured, as well as the elevator car itself. Not so "Crate-like" as Kal-El put it to me. :)
HOM in the Power Center
As you may have gathered from previous posts, this was supposed to be a fogged area. FOr whatever reason, the fog brush and the trigger_hurt were interefering with each other. THe fog has been removed, and the HOM is gone, the trigger_hurt works properly. Incidently, this also slightly improved FPS in there.
Catwalk Undersides not Textured
This shouldnt be an issue due to your imminant demise when you are looking at it, but I textured them anyway.
Power Center Controls Hovering
I never saw this. I checked it in my version of the Beta, and in subsequent compiles. *shrug* Well, as long as it's gone.
Spaceport Waiting Room-side Landing Area Texturing
Thanks to Leslie for pointing this out. The texture has been replaced on the wall only with the same one used on the lower side.
That takes care of the ones that were listed on THIS forum. Other issues noted from other forums :
End Cap in Arena Foyer hanging in Mid Air
Fixed. :)
End Cap for light in Clinic missing
Replaced. :)
HOM in the Far right Prison Cell, under the door
Cant believe I missed texturing that area, but it's been repaired.
The Vases Dont Have BOTTOMS!
Incidently, this was my favorite "Error". Man, Austin must have REALLY been hunting for these! Fixed. :)
In addition to all of that, I've also changed the lighting schemes a little, after a conversation with Kal-El. The Hotel lightinghas changed to a slightly yellow-ish light. However, , after looking at it in game, and seeing the way it turns the blue walls piss-green, I think this will probobly change back to white light. *shudder*
The bar lighting has changed. Most of the lighting is now reddish, and a couple of textures have changed to fit that. THe booth areas are still white-lit.
The Library is now more brightly lit, but I used a lavender light that brings out the browns and wood grains a bit more. It's still dark among the bookcases, and those may go back to white, but that has yet to be decided.
The Gallery area of the Arena has had it's lights changed to dark blue. THis makes a tremendous impact of the look of teh area, one I am VERY happy with. It will most DEFINATELY be staying.
The General store has had a change of lighting color to a light bluish tinge. THis also seems to work fairly well, and probobly wont change.
THat's the news at 4:45pm EST. I'll be releasing one final Beta version on the site in the next day or two. It's purpose is to find any remaining bugs, evaluate the new lighting, and to bring suggestions for FFA weapon/item placement.
TTFN!
The Final Beta for the RPG version is now avaliable on the Map Site. Remember, I want evaluations of lighting more than anything. I've got the FFA/TFFA waepons placecments already in mind now.
The FFA/TFFA version should be released about two days after the RPG version, due to a few changes that I have to make between the two.
Enjoy!
1. The undersides of the deskes do not have textures on them or are calked or where u have patces u don't have them inverted.
2. The tops of the vertical lights in the entrance to the library are not caped.
3. the curves on the ends of the streets are not matching so u can see a "crack" in them.
4. The z-fighting in the bactas when the ater is raised is still there.
5. and the door under the room that loks over hangar has no sound
Those are just the probs i found hope they help.
Found and corrected, with the exception of the end caps on the walkways - they meet up perfectly in the editor. Not sure why we're getting those sparklies. *shrug*