Anyone else notice that this is possible in JK2? If your not from CS, bunny hopping is continuosly jumping. Somehow the physics in the game just keep getting your speed faster and faster. I can bunny hop accross entire lvls. You can use a no force jump bunny hop for a fast escape, or if you force jump off an uneven surface, you get a huge speed increase in that direction. You can chain these "super" force jumps together, and cross entire lvls in 3-4 jumps.
You can roll faster than people can even jump and run if you didn't know that.
actually, i thought roll was faster, but after 3 or so non force bunny hops, you are moving faster then roll. Connect about 6-7 non force bunnyhops and you are moving as fast as speed force. I catch rollling cappers with bunnyhops
Well it's kind of like bunnyhopping, and your right, jumping like that is even faster than rolling.
Every experienced Quake 3-player jumps around like that, and JK2 has a lot of Q3 elements in it, so you can also use those jumps in JK2. It's excellent btw.. real handy for CTF.
But unlike bunnyhopping in CS, this sort of jumping in Q3 is condoned. I hope JK2ers will see that it's not cheap either.
This was found out a long time ago with Quake2 and it was left in the engine when it made its way over to q3a, it comes before CS was out.
I've seen this term in counterstrike altho never seen it (or just didn't recognize it...)
Can someone plz post steps to doing a "bunny hop"?
Originally posted by Valdarious
This was found out a long time ago with Quake2 and it was left in the engine when it made its way over to q3a, it comes before CS was out.
yah. dont u love it too? i feel like superman doing it. i like q3. lots of mods.
Its bacially good strafe jump timing, you time it right and you will keep momentum going.
Yep, and it is annoying as hell. I, along with others on my team, was constantly trying to chase, with speed, some guy who had stolen the... well animal thingy (can't remember its name)... and he was still going faster, even if I try tried to combine the bunny hoping with speed, I couldn't catch up. Please can Raven get rid of it.
Its one thing in quake3 where anything goes but in a game about Jedis for god's sake it is unbelievably ridiculous to see a jedi hopping around like some kind of monkey.
Plus, not everyone knows how to (or wants to learn--I just want to have fun not learn and practice some silly discipline) and those who do it have a MASSIVE advantage. In CTF...oh god thats just not right.
If you cant tell I come from CS not Q3 :p
I have kinda mixed views on this.
First of all in CTY, when you get the enemy ysalmari, I think the creators of the game wanted the captor to be somewhat immobile but immune to force attacks. But when i get into a CTY game, i see captors with the ysalmari bunnyhopping faster than people with speed force.
just bunnyhopping faster than force speed in general is just kinda bending the rules.
But i use it all the time, and i dont care if they do fix it, but if they wanted to fix it i'm sure they already would have. And like Cow_JK said: "it is unbelievably ridiculous to see a jedi hopping around like some kind of monkey."
Unfortunatly I dont think they can fix it. I am not positive but I think they tried to take it out of quake2 but they couldnt because of a physics thing, but I am not sure really.
I play HalfLife DeathMatch and can bunnyhop in AG (AdrenalineGamer) although Valve has taken care of bunnyhopping by adjusting the netcode.
CS aswell as HLDM run on the quake2 engine so bunnyhopping was possible untill Valve ended it all due of the fact that many complains came in from the CS community.
I cant talk for the Q3 lads in here coz I ain t played it that much,
but plz get rid of bunnyhopping in JediKnightII coz it aint the style of this game, and JKII has good effects build into the game itself.
Why try to equalize one game wiv another by adding summin thats originally not the meaning and the theme of the game.
Its simply not this game's style.
If your searching for another dimension to expand your gaming-experience try and master the way of the lightsaber instead of hopping around like a bunch of idiots.
grtz... dis
Raven, Get rid of bunnyhopping!
If I am not mistaken, ID Software did take it out of Q2, but the fan community actually complained, and ID put bunnyhopping back into the code.
It is a bug and an exploit, and seems very silly in terms of gameplay and style.
I will agree with those that would like it removed if possible. It doesn't fit the gameplay of JKO. I don't give a crap whether its in Q3 or 2 or whatever... because I see no real advantage in it. I have been able to hit bunnyhoppers just as easily as other players so far and if they want to hop around looking like an idiot thats their business.
However, in JKO it looks beyond ridiculous and actually ruins the flavor entirely in my opinion. And lets face it.... the Jedi Knight series is all about recreating the Star Wars universe and its flavor. Thats its purpose and appeal. If someone wants to bunnyhop around they can just as easily play quake 3.
End f they hop so what. You use pull and they're on the ground ... except for CTY. They lowered the jump rate of bunnyhopping in RTCW. So they can also do it in JK2.
Mesa hate rabbits.
"CS aswell as HLDM run on the quake2 engine so bunnyhopping was possible"
HL/CS/TFC run on a modified Quake1 engine, not Quake2..
the bunnyhopping mechanics for HL/CS/TFC are slightly different than that of Quake2 and Quake3, due to the relative low amount of air-control involved in Quake2 and Quake3, compared to HL...
the difference between JK2 and Q3 in terms of acceptance of bunnyhopping is the fact that in JK2, you have force balance issues in that moving at force-speed speeds should come at the cost of your force meter... however, by using the bunnyhopping technique, you are able to completely negate the need for that force power at all..
this is the reason why in HL-based mods that involve class balance(TFC), game speed balance(CS), the issue of bunnyhopping has become defined as more of an exploit than simply a game feature...
Originally posted by Zodiac
Well it's kind of like bunnyhopping, and your right, jumping like that is even faster than rolling.
Every experienced Quake 3-player jumps around like that, and JK2 has a lot of Q3 elements in it, so you can also use those jumps in JK2. It's excellent btw.. real handy for CTF.
But unlike bunnyhopping in CS, this sort of jumping in Q3 is condoned. I hope JK2ers will see that it's not cheap either.
... i would like to know why it's not cheap ... as i can rationalize it, every aspect of this skill is cheap, im not saying your an idiot for using it, but id like to know why it's not cheap ....
Originally posted by Zed030
I've seen this term in counterstrike altho never seen it (or just didn't recognize it...)
Can someone plz post steps to doing a "bunny hop"?
it would benefit the community if you didn't learn it
Me too. I'm also sick of all these cheap, cheap asses out there bunnyhop-draining, drain-gripping, or whatever other neat little exploits that are based on exploiting weird timing issues in the engine, and saying "but it's legit! I'm not cheating!" Cheap is always legit, but people dislike it. "But I'm winning."
Okay, great. If the point is to get the most kills, have fun. Let's turn the Star Wars universe into freaking Unreal Tournament. Next up, a voice patch with Yoda taunting "Die, b!+@#."
Originally posted by hughJ
"CS aswell as HLDM run on the quake2 engine so bunnyhopping was possible"
HL/CS/TFC run on a modified Quake1 engine, not Quake2..
er, so just out of curiosity, you're saying that valve licensed the quake 1 engine, and then converted quakec to c++.... wouldnt it be more highly logical that its the quake2 engine, considering quake2 is c++ as well?
Bunny hopping has been around for ages, while I'm not certain if it was possible in quake 1, I know it was possible in Team Fortress for Quake (And incidentally, quakeworld)
*shrugs*
lolz we already had this discussion about which engine HL/CS/TFC use. Conclusion: They use parts of both the Q1 and Q2 engine. :) Those weren't my words, but go back a few pages and u can see the entire "HL uses Q1 or Q2 engine" topic. :)
I'm just saying this bunnyhopping isnt cheap, cuz this is an arcade game, not some jedi-simulator. I've seen many discussions about "bunnyhopping". It always ends with one group liking it and one group disliking it... I'm in the group who likes it and there's nothing I can say to other people to persuade them to like it too. Nor is there a way to persuade me to dislike fastjumps. It's real hard to win such discussions in real life, and it's even harder to convince someone through an electronic message board.
And btw.. those who don't know about those jumps, they just roll around all the time. Now that also looks stupid and a jedi rolling around on the floor is quite hilarious, but people do everything just to move faster than running... My suggestion: just speed it all up, speed up the running and nobody'll be rolling around or jumping anymore. :)
Originally posted by SD_ALLSTAR
Anyone else notice that this is possible in JK2? If your not from CS, bunny hopping is continuosly jumping. Somehow the physics in the game just keep getting your speed faster and faster. I can bunny hop accross entire lvls. You can use a no force jump bunny hop for a fast escape, or if you force jump off an uneven surface, you get a huge speed increase in that direction. You can chain these "super" force jumps together, and cross entire lvls in 3-4 jumps.
"bunny hopping" is actualy called Strafe Jumping. And it's not from CS, it's from the old Quake1 days...the real deal.
It is very possible in JO, until you get force jump.
FYI
For all purposes it IS a jedi simulator though. People who are interested in this game are interested because of the atmosphere of the Star Wars universe.
I for one want SOME semblance of the "reality" of the series... not to see a bunch of people jumping around like a dancing carnival chicken on a hotplate. Neither do I want to see them rolling around all over the place.
Why can't you just be content with force speed... how fast do you REALLY need to go? Its not a racing sim after all... :rolleyes:
I must ammend by saying... you are of course perfectly justified in liking what you like but understand that I and other may not choose to play with bunny hoppers because they infringe on what WE think is fun about Jedi Knight. :)
Originally posted by Pvt_Dancer
For all purposes it IS a jedi simulator though. People who are interested in this game are interested because of the atmosphere of the Star Wars universe.
Exactly. If you want to play Serious Sam, go play Serious Sam. Let's say in Medal of Honor MP you were somehow invincible when crouch-jumping. So every is now crouched and jumping, and looks like an idiot. Some would complain "come on, this is supposed to be WWII for God's sake," while others would say "but I'm doing it and it works! It's a tactic! It's in the game! This isn't really WWII!"
If that's the feeling, add lasers and flight to MOH. How about a gun that shoots lightsabers? Hell, it's just a game where the only thing that matters are frags, right?
I bought this game because I liked the idea of being a Jedi, cautious and exacting, not because I like chopping up as many people as I can at any cost, or tossing as many as I can into a pit. If you want mass melee bloodshed, play Rune.
Prox you da man (did I just say that?). You explained what I meant better than I did... but don't you be bad mouthing Rune. :) I love Rune and know a lot of people that play that game with an honor code just as they would with Jedi Knight.
HL was originally slated to be released around the time of Quake2, it ended up coming out something like 10 months later, after being delayed as valve tends to do, this isn't anywhere near enough time to go and port everything over to a new Quake2 engine... especially considering all the engine modifications that were made..
many console commands in HL are identical to Quake, the demo file types are .dem (unlike .dm2 of Quake2).. I believe the model formats are also the same as Q1, rather than Q2..
from planethalflife: "Half-Life is based on the Quake(tm) engine by ID Software, with Valve's own enhancements to the engine, such as 16-bit and 24-bit color and MMX support, as well as being developed to take full advantage of 3dfx's Voodoo2. Half-Life is based on a whole new level of proprietary technology creating a extremely rich and original gaming experience"
For all purposes it IS a jedi simulator though. People who are interested in this game are interested because of the atmosphere of the Star Wars universe.
I bought this game because I liked the idea of being a Jedi, cautious and exacting, not because I like chopping up as many people as I can at any cost, or tossing as many as I can into a pit. If you want mass melee bloodshed, play Rune.
Please, everyone pay attention to these two quotes because they put it perfectly. I play MOHAA too and I've got fed up with people going on about how "it is video games" and thus keep using the stupidly designed rockets all the time. Yes, in certain aspect they are, but they are also supposed to based in a specific "universe". What is the point in buying MOHAA and JO if they're all going to end up being the same game? Go and play Quake 3 if you want that rubbish. Some of us don't have much gaming time and thus like to enjoy what we have and it is getting really irritating having it ruined by those few (yes, few because not everyone is doing it) people who seem to have nothing better to do.
Why can't you just be content with force speed... how fast do you REALLY need to go? Its not a racing sim after all... :rolleyes:
For two reasons:
1)So they don't have to allocate points to force speed.
2)So they can screw us over in CTY and still out run us
Why can't people just play the game fairly and in the spirit that it was intended. If it isn't hackers, its people using screwed up models and if it isn't that they're manipulating the engine someway.
-conclusion....Join a server w/ rules setup...thats the end i guess
getting away from bunny hops, but: isnt it also the developers fault if they ALLOW a mp-game to become another version of q3? there just shouldnt be enough rocket launchers and ammo on a map so everybody uses it.
when i heard about the flechette in jk2 i just laughed. it's absolutely un-starwars and still they dont have a choice. 'people expect shotguns and grenade launchers in a modern shooter' 'but it wont fit in the world' 'who cares, we need to please the mass market'.
i would just love to remove that stuff. as soon as the tools are out creating a mod that get's rid of all the anti-starwars stuff. but take away the flechette and rockets and sabers will be too strong.
though i still consider bunny hopping as exploiting a problem with the physics (i dont even know how that should work.. else i'd say 'normalize (part of) that damn vector and multiply with the right speed' *g*).
well, wait for patches and mods. might be wrong there, but i guess most serious players would rather some of the mods for hl and not hl-mp itself.
In my experience, Bunny Hopping ruins games. You get someone good at it, and not only are they impossible to catch, but almost impossible to shoot to.
This makes the teams games pointless as one person can play the game on their own, so making the team effort futile.
Bunny hoppers always defend this by saying it's skill. Maybe it is, assuming they have not just bound keys, but the point is, it is a flaw in the engine which is being exploited. That's exactly the same as someone finding a flaw which allows them to see through walls, give them quad damage etc. and those people are called CHEATS.
What's the difference, none except the other loop holes have been removed and continuous Bunny Hopping has not, so people who are unable to achieve results any other way, use the Bunny.
Another excuse is, it's in the game so it should be used. But it's not in the game, it's just something the developers can't or can't be bothered to fix.
I think either MOHAA or RTCW have a stamina bar. This effectively allows a certain amount of Bunnying, but runs out quickly and has side effects like not being able to run.
As time goes by, and new engines are used, I'm sure the developers will limit the Bunny Boys, but until then, we'll have to live with it.
Personally, if I'm playing on a server where the Bunny rules, I go elsewhere.
PS. I'm not talking here about just jumping everywhere, but about those who use it to give them more speed than the model is supposed to have. Thereby upsetting the balance of the game.
when did bunny hopping become CS related?
i always thaught its been around since Quake 1....
I know it was possible in Team Fortress for Quake (And incidentally, quakeworld)
Yes, I remember seeing heavy weapon guys going faster than scouts normally could in QW TF. Quite strange.
I'm sure ID/Raven know about this and I'm sure if it was simple to fix it would have been fixed a long time ago.
I take exception to what you said Trienco... those guns are just as much a part of the SW world as the lightsabre. First of all, the majority of the SW world AREN'T Jedi's. What the hell would all those other people do to get in their little bit of violence?:rolleyes:
Of course there are guns and plenty of them in SW. Probably a wide variety too. I mean, our culture has a wide vareity of guns, why wouldn't theirs?
thank god one person in this forum called it strafe jumping thank you valdarious - I presume strafe jumping is the same thing... what kinda ridiculous word is bunny hopping....
you do that on bikes and it sounds stupid then... strafe jumping is the term yes all technical so nice...
umm... anyway can you do the signiture curve? strafe jump continuously in one direction in a big long curve then after about 5 or 6 jumps switch direction and strafe jump the opposite way - used to give you a massive leap in action quake 2 giving you a massive advantage....
"You the hughj from Zt?"
yes
Straff jumping is more difficult in JKII becasue of force jump is automatic. You can do it's just u can only tap your jump buttin very lightly. For people who have been straff jumping since HF / CS then it shouldn't be hard to adapt. I for one have found it difficult but it can be done.
I've found straff jumping + force speed = you move very very VERY fast, a good get away on ctf_imperial :p.
Your effectively encouraging cheating...BAN!:rolleyes:
Use dark rage, force speed and bunny hop in CTF, then laugh at the people trying to catch you, all the while yelling "WHEEEEEEEEE"
Since when is strafejumping cheating. Just because you are too lazy to learn it doesn't mean it is cheating. And those binding bunnyhopping to a key will never learn the decent trickjumps.
In elite force extremely beautiful moves were executed. Learn it if you want to be a pro.
Originally posted by Pvt_Dancer
I take exception to what you said Trienco... those guns are just as much a part of the SW world as the lightsabre. First of all, the majority of the SW world AREN'T Jedi's. What the hell would all those other people do to get in their little bit of violence?:rolleyes:
Of course there are guns and plenty of them in SW. Probably a wide variety too. I mean, our culture has a wide vareity of guns, why wouldn't theirs?
i'm not talking about all the guns, but especially the flechette. matter of taste but to me it seems to much of a "every shooter has a shotgun"-decision. and of course you cant just stick with the guns you see in the movies. 5 versions of the same weapon would be quite boring just like it would be if all weapons would be blasters with just different damage and fire rate. but when was the last time you saw a shotgun in a sci-fi movie? (dont mention alien 4, they didnt have sci-fi like weapons at all *g*)
anyway, i guess it was about strafe jumping before i mentioned a couple other things *g*.
Since when is strafejumping cheating. Pretty much since it's inception. It was originally a nasty little bug that people would use. Then it became somewhat mainstream in Q2. And they even kept it in for Q3 because that community liked it. Which was a shame because had this technique activated a Quad damage you can bet it would have been removed, speed was just on the cusp of acceptability.
CS removed it and marked it down as cheating. Kingpin accepted it and pretty much simultaneously self destructed because of it. Q3 accepts it and RTCW has coded against it via their stamina thingy (I think). Personally I always felt it a pointless little exploit that created a new "skill" for no real reason. I hope JK2 will see it as an exploit too and remove it so we can concentrate on more important skills like sabre use.
PS. If your spending your time practicing how to jump and strafe and swing your mouse around just so you can outrun other people in a game then you're spending far too much time online.
If you want a perfect "jedi simulator" you won't find one.. anywhere. Games are meant to be played.. and when multiplayer comes in, the developers seek "balance" and "fun," and strict adherence to canon and fanboy rules takes a backseat. That's just a fact...
Also, I would highly encourage people who want JK2 to be a roleplaying game to read up on the following:
Star Wars Galaxies
Knights of the Old Republic
These are full fledged RPG's, where you can be Jedi, and they will immerse you in the Star Wars Universe better than JK2 ever could.
The shooter genre has its limitations, and I doubt it will ever live up to the standards set by the role-players we keep hearing from (remember, these are the people who call gun users names when they win, and complain about Stormtroopers using lightsabers).
JK2 is a first person shooter.. you know what that means? It means it isn't a Star Wars movie.. it's an action game, about blowing stuff up and shooting things. Sure, there's lightsaber action in there too, but the essence of the Dark Forces series has always been the first person shooter.
A discussion about strafe-running/jumping turns into a discussion about roleplaying in the Star Wars universe. ; )
Personally, I think that some people will never be satisfied. It just isn't the game developers job to disable every single feature he put into his game that doesn't fit into your view of what "Star Wars" should be, sorry to say.
And yes, we went through the whole Half Life engine thing... anyone who says that it's based solely on the Quake1 engine is only partly correct, regardless of what planethalflife says.
[/end rant]
i use strafe jumping simply because i think the game speed is a bit slow and i want to move faster around maps because its more fun.. i would use rolling but after a roll i cant move at all for a short while which doesnt make it a very quick way to move around maps (obviously its meant for light saber fights).. but i dont really care.. if strafe jumping is there i use it, if it isnt i dont mind.. not a big deal
Originally posted by Prox Kolari
Me too. I'm also sick of all these cheap, cheap asses out there bunnyhop-draining, drain-gripping, or whatever other neat little exploits that are based on exploiting weird timing issues in the engine, and saying "but it's legit! I'm not cheating!" Cheap is always legit, but people dislike it. "But I'm winning."
Okay, great. If the point is to get the most kills, have fun. Let's turn the Star Wars universe into freaking Unreal Tournament. Next up, a voice patch with Yoda taunting "Die, b!+@#."
i would love to see a voice patch with yoda degrading me...hehe....that little bugger needs to take a shock rifle shot to the head.... hehe UT foeva..heh...
The solution is to play other gametypes besides ctf... WIth all the force/guns/sabers I really haven't felt the desire to do ctf in this game...Let the lamers stay in ctf...
Bunny-hopping is a ridiculous notion that doesn't belong in any action game - except for one with rabbits maybe.
Bunny-hoppers are lamers... Period.:p
bunnyhopping is fine when it adds something to gameplay, without causing imbalances... quake contains no such qualities such as classes, force powers, or a realistic damage model where game balance can be hurt by it...
bunnyhopping is a technique, you can learn it, perfect it, and incorporate it into your game to where it falls along side explosion/rocket jumping, trimping/double jumping, and other such movement techniques... it allows for an expansion of gameplay elements that gives a sharper learning curve and extends the life and interest in the game due to deeper gameplay...
for those of you complaining about this simply due to the fact that you 'don't have the time to learn it' (or that 'people who do have the time, have no life') should really just go back to playing Atari.. if someone is willing to spend more time playing and learning a game than you, they deserve to be a better player...
however I will agree that bunnyhopping in JK2 is perhaps imbalancing and more exploitive, due to the fact that it negates the need for force speed in some ways (although you still gain from the increased attack rate, etc).. but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing in ALL games..