Interesting discussion... again ;)
I've seen these pop-up so many times after quake(world). My take: Originally bunnyhopping was same kind of bug as rocket/granade/conc jumping. It abuses physics engine but since it's been around so long, it's been evolved to "feature" status in quake based games.
I've always sucked in bunnyhopping but I still like it in games. It requres skill to use and if player is skilled enough to use it, more power to him. Btw, can you get even higher speeds in JK2 when you bunnyhop while speed power is on and gain even higher speeds ?
I think I played against HughJ (in TFC) when he was in NULL... I bet he rememebers times when HWs moved as fast as Scouts in TF :naughty:
Maybe that was bit too much (some still argue) and maybe Devs could neft bunnyhopping little so you couldn't get same advantage as speed power. I don't know, I have played too few MP matches and I haven't even seen bunnyhopping in action in JK2.
¬¬
Comparing JK2 to a football... let me rephrase that and retain my English identity ^_^, an "American Fotball" game just doesn't work.
Football is reality - we... well, you can see it day in and day out, know exactly what happens where, when and how and what doesn't happen... ever.
Star Wars is science fiction, it was created in a chap's mind for goodness sake - it isn't real, you can't say what would or wouldn't happen - if George Lucas wished it everyone could be strafe jumping all over in Episode 3... not that it's gonna happen, but I'm sure you get the point.
If you really wanted it to be super "realistic", I'm sure you'd argue with a big bunch of jedi knights diving into an arena and slogging it out to see who could get the most points - or teams of lightsaber wielding stormtroopers running back and forth trying to nab a blue flag.
*sigh* - I didn't come to the forums to argue about guns / grip users / strafe jumping...
*zips his mouth up on the subject*
I've agreed with pretty much everything SpiderAL has said, but I'm gonna state my opinion also.
The star wars fanboys are the ones that are complaining the most. They heard the hype, they eagerly awaited the release, and when they finally got their hands on it and started playing MP a revelation struck them! "I suck!" Instead of training with other FPS, honing your skills so you could win, you were too busy watching the trilogy over and over shouting "Use the force Luke!"
They are the ones who think they deserve to win just cause they only use a lightsaber.
Instead of adapting to tactics deemed "cheap", they started whining. I've whined about a bunch of things, but I stopped once I realized, they're just playing the game, better than me, so they're not the problem, I am.
Many of these "jedi-wannabes" would be content with everyone joining a server then sitting there with our thumbs up our butts going "Well...wha...well I can't do that...a real jedi wouldn't do that."
I may point out, nowhere in the Star Wars universe do the words "Thou shalt not Bunny-Hop" appear.
Of course, nowhere in the Star Wars universe does it make any reference to jumping around like an idiot which makes you move faster than normal.
Perhaps you should play more CTY. That is where it seriously annoys me; being unable to catch up with someone who has stolen it because he's just as fast as you on speed.
I agree with that, people bunny hopping once they've got the Ysalamiri is annoying as hell, especially when they get up to if not faster than the speed of your force run.
Why does it annoy you? I presume it's because you want to win. If you want to win, bunny-hop right on after him, until the day Raven decides to remove it.
Yeah 'bunny-hop right on after him', yep, that's all well and good to say, but when you get level 1 force jump by default, you can't bunny hop as effectively as you can when you get the ysalamiri. When you've got the ysalamiri, you don't have to worry about your force jumping at all, which will happen if you hold space bar just a bit too long.
Therefore, people with ysalamiri who bunny hop faster than people who can force run, and are able to do it easier than people who can still accidentally force jump, have a greater advantage in CTY games.
Bunny hopping does not suit this game (and yes, I know how to bunny hop perfectly fine thank you, I did play quake 3 and rocket arena, so its kind of a known skill), or the style of play.
Originally posted by Spider AL
Why does it annoy you? I presume it's because you want to win.
Please don't put words in my mouth. It annoys me because a) I believe it is cheating and b) it is not part of the Star Wars "spirit". I am certainly not a Star Wars fan-boy. But you'd know if you'd read my previous posts.
Perhaps you have difficulty learning the bunny-hop?
If you read my posts you'd see that I've already stated how easy it is to pick up. I can do it with little problem, but I don't.
but if you want to win your CTY matches in the meantime, perhaps you should bunny-hop.
This is the problem we have. You're one of the win, win, win mindset. You have to appreciate that there are people who play for fun and to be involved in a limited, but as close to as possible, Star Wars universe. I have no problem losing, perhaps you should learn to accept that too.
That's your decision, your prerogative. However, don't be so disdainful of people who actually want to play the game as opposed to your preferred sort of person, the Jedi-wannabe.
I've played Unreal and all the Quakes and they didn't appeal to me... quite simple. And where have I been disdainful? You sure enjoy putting words in my mouth. I simply said I have no interest as to what happens in those games.
As for the Jedi-wannabe comment.... again, you don't seem to be reading my posts. I suggest you back and have a look at what I've actually said. :rolleyes:
By picking out aspects you wish to change, you merely tell me that you're not happy with the game as a whole.
Please stop putting words in my mouth. I've never said that. The game is great fun, I am merely arguing against a certain feature which I see as a bug.
In which case, you'll be here, picking at loose threads (like bunny-hopping) for all eternity, because there will ALWAYS be oddities in the game's engine that fast-learning players will use to their advantage. I think there are better uses for one's time, like actually playing the game, and having fun playing it, while accepting any little foibles it thrusts upon you as part of the game.
lol. Ohhh the irony. Just look at what you've said and then realise what you've done.
By all means, if bunny-hopping is ruining your game, petition Raven to remove it. But you must draw the line somewhere. You can't petition them to remove... say... the Strong sabre stance.
And some people would like to, you know.
That's their business, not mine. I can appreciate it if they come up with a good reason, but simply arguing it, e.g. bunny-hopping here, is there and thus is ok is a weak argument.
Actually, no, that question is so nonsensical it beggars belief.
:rolleyes: No point in answering this.
Frankly, those who complain about so-called "imbalances" between guns and sabres merely wish for their particular force config and playing style, to be the most powerful.
Do you not see the irony in your posts? By simply defending such settings you are yourself imposing your values upon others. Your arguing that it is alright to distort the Star Wars universe. These games are built on players' responses. Perhaps you should be posting this in every thread requesting changes telling people to shut up... I hope you will. If we don't like something then we voice our concerns.
I say, LEARN the most powerful config, that works best against the most opponents, and use it.
Sigh.... it is a sad world we live in with so many obsessed with winning.
Football is reality - we... well, you can see it day in and day out, know exactly what happens where, when and how and what doesn't happen... ever.
Well that's the end of fantasy as we know it. Even imagined worlds have rules and laws and that is what makes them so interesting. I guess using your argument it is no problem having laser guns in Lord of the Rings then.
Instead of training with other FPS, honing your skills so you could win, you were too busy watching the trilogy over and over shouting "Use the force Luke!"
Actually I was too busy outside enjoying the sunshine to focus my time on video games "honing my skills". ;)
Damn FWB, like Joel Siegel, you're a quote *****, though not in the same meaning. You just like picking apart everything someone says.
Originally posted by VaderJM
Damn FWB, like Joel Siegel, you're a quote *****, though not in the same meaning. You just like picking apart everything someone says.
It helps people recall what I'm replying to. I've had too many experiences where people keep contradicting themselves or get mightly confused at what is said. It seems Spider AL has got lost part of the way. Apart from which, it is the way one debates. If you don't like the format I advise you stay away from political forums. You'll be in for a nasty shock.
Besides which, you wrote the paragraph, not me.
...but when you get level 1 force jump by default, you can't bunny hop as effectively as you can when you get the ysalamiri. When you've got the ysalamiri, you don't have to worry about your force jumping at all, which will happen if you hold space bar just a bit too long.
Therefore, people with ysalamiri who bunny hop faster than people who can force run, and are able to do it easier than people who can still accidentally force jump, have a greater advantage in CTY games...
...yes, I know how to bunny hop perfectly fine thank you...Hah. This is complete rubbish :D If you knew how to strafe jump perfectly fine, you wouldn't be taking off into a level one force jump at all - once you've mastered even the basic strafe jump it's childsplay to string them into a chain without force jumping. As for not being able to keep up with the ysalamiri runner with force run enabled...
Are you crazy? A force jump whilst force running is all you'll ever need to catch one of those guys O.o some people need to work on their skills before complaining ^_^
I would never go to a political forum. That is completely futile.
Another, kind of unrelated thing, how come whenever someone doesn't win they say "Well, I'm just trying to have fun, unlike you, the win at all costs type." As far as I know, the title of the game is Jedi outcast, not Jedi loser (but enjoys it anyway). Winning is always gonna be fun.
Oh jeez! First of all, strafe jumping doesn't make you "win." It only makes you faster... not invincible. Not ONE of us has complained about how we lose all the time. We have had issues with it causing an imbalance in the game and that its taking its toll on the atmosphere of the game but not that we continually lose to you.
I find your logic to be extremely assumptive. Complaint=loser? WhatEVER dude.
I said it was unrelated sort of.
Besides, I don't even bunnyhop, haven't figured out how to do it yet, and doubt I'd use it if I could.
Yeah 'bunny-hop right on after him', yep, that's all well and good to say, but when you get level 1 force jump by default, you can't bunny hop as effectively
This is incorrect. Bunny-hopping is a technique people use regardless of force level, all it takes is a little practice.
It annoys me because a) I believe it is cheating and b) it is not part of the Star Wars "spirit". I am certainly not a Star Wars fan-boy. But you'd know if you'd read my previous posts.
Cheating, aka hacking, is the manipulation of a game's files/code to give an advantage to the cheater. Strafe-Jumping is a bug exploit. The fact that you can even confuse the two is laughable. :rolleyes: Bugs can be exploited by everyone without altering the game in any way.
Not that I use bunny-hopping myself, as I've said before, it's irrelevant to me.
And, with your insistance that JO conform to your idea of what "Star wars should be about," you are making it clear exactly how much of a "fanboy" you are.
I can do it with little problem, but I don't.
Then that's your problem mate. :rolleyes:
This is the problem we have. You're one of the win, win, win mindset.
Oh please, you wouldn't even BE here complaining about bunny-hopping if you were only in it for the gameplay. No, you're here ranting about how evil it is, because you want to win, but can't, and bunny-hopping is your excuse of the day.
lol. Ohhh the irony.
I don't think you truly understand the definition of irony, my friend. And no, you can't extract it from any Alanis Morissette songs. :rolleyes:
No point in answering this.
Good, since it wasn't a question, but a statement. Now here's a question you haven't answered, regarding your stance on gun-users. Do you wish gun-users to be disempowered by having their Force removed in FFAs? It certainly seemed that way in your previous post.
By simply defending such settings you are yourself imposing your values upon others.
Defending what "settings" exactly? Are you referring to the bunny-hopping? As I recall, I stated twice that "It's irrelevant to me." It's irrelevant to me, because I have better things to do than to complain about it. And people who do complain about it, have ulterior motives for doing so.
What I have defended, and do defend, is the right of those who go onto a FF guns FFA server to use both Force powers and guns.
Your arguing that it is alright to distort the Star Wars universe.
lol, unlike you my primary concern for the game is not whether Jedi Outcast "conforms to the Star Wars universe." :rolleyes: Now you're really sounding like a fanboy.
Sigh.... it is a sad world we live in with so many obsessed with winning.
Perhaps you're unaware that Jedi Outcast is... Shock horror - a game. Games are fun, but they also have winners and losers. Without a goal to accomplish, a game is no longer a game. And why do people want to win? Because winning is the goal of the game. Whoever reaches that goal first, gets a buzz.
Yes, I enjoy winning, I'd be a liar if I said I didn't. But somehow, I don't think I'm the one obsessed with it... Those who complain about the way in which others win a game, do so because they wished to win in his/her stead, and become obsessed.
If all you wanted out of Jedi Outcast was the opportunity to pretend to be a Jedi, you should be happy as a clam from the moment you start the game to the moment you end it, regardless of who wins. You are not happy as a clam however, so by a logical deduction, you wished to win. As I said previously, people who are so vehement about such bugs, tend to be the ones who cry the most sour grapes while losing.
Actually I was too busy outside enjoying the sunshine to focus my time on video games "honing my skills".
I find this on the one hand perilously hard to believe, and on the other, merely a statement of the obvious.
It's obvious to me that you have neither the interest in, nor the dedication to JO to become one of the so called "elite." And that would be fine, if you weren't so bitter. However, your obsessive insistance that JO conform rigidly to the alleged rules of the Star Wars universe, show a level of commitment to Star Wars that makes the "busy outside" and "enjoying the sunshine" portions a little too hard to stomach.
However if we take it on face value, there remains only one thing to say:
Return to your enjoyment of the sunshine. Outside. :p
Spider AL
--
PS:
As far as I know, the title of the game is Jedi outcast, not Jedi loser (but enjoys it anyway). Winning is always gonna be fun.
Absolutely priceless Vader, priceless. :D
OMG that is the funniest thing I have ever heard. Bug Exploitation is cheating, full stop! The isnt any argument that you could put up to promote your points of view.
Take the Grenade Cheat in RtCW for example. That is a Bug Exploit and anyone implemementing this bug is CHEATING.
The star wars fanboys are the ones that are complaining the most. They heard the hype, they eagerly awaited the release, and when they finally got their hands on it and started playing MP a revelation struck them! "I suck!"
Hahaha.yeahhhh. What is a fanboy anyways? Sounds sexist to me. Like most others who picked up this game I like FPS's AND SW. Sorry to burst your bubble but I don't suck. Yes I prefer using the saber, and I'm fairly good at it. I use guns too, and I'm pretty good at that too (9 years of FPS playing tends to have that affect on you)
"When I finally got my hands on it", the revelation that struck me was the imbalance between the guns and the saber, not that I suck. Winning with a saber is hard (mostly) and winning with guns is not (mostly). To SpiderAl and you VaderJM, this is perfectly acceptable (along with other FPS issues like bunny hopping/strafe-jumping) because to you, this game is a FPS first and a game based in a certain setting second. To a good chunk of the people who are playing this game, it is a Star Wars game first and an FPS second.
For the record, there isn't a single person here who thinks the SW universe is REAL for a second! But just because it isn't reality doesn't mean that you can disregard things that don't mesh with it. A game about Superman that uses Kryptonite as a way to give Superman strength instead of weakening him, well then it really isn't a game about Superman, is it? You're changing the rules? And what if in the next Batman and Robin movie that comes (side note: I hope another one never does) they cast Robin as 55 yr fat drunk guy. Hey it's not reality! Do whatever.
Look, I've been playing these types of games for a loooooong time, and not just FPS. Combat flight sims and space sims have a good on-line/mp aspect to them too. I've done the "winning uber alles" thing for a good deal of time, and eventually it became boring. Now instead of just trying to win, I've found that I have the most fun (in any game) trying to win in certain way, a challenging way. Using my Madden football analogy above, it's super damn easy to win if you choose a team like the Rams, but whats the real fun in that? I play as the Browns, one of the worse teams in there and in r/l, and try to make them the champs. It's a better affirmation of your skills to take a worse setup and win with that, than to take the most powerful setup and plow over. In this game, I try to stick to the saber, LJ setup. Yeah it contradicts my name, but when I signed up here, I had no idea how many people would be going the Dark Jedi route, and felt the first couple times I played that there weren't enough Light guys running around. Now I'm hooked. Interesting to note, most of the gun users you'll find choose the DS, I don't think I've yet to run across a primarily gun guy that was heal-whoring me :)
Instead of adapting to tactics deemed "cheap", they started whining. I've whined about a bunch of things, but I stopped once I realized, they're just playing the game, better than me, so they're not the problem, I am
I've adapted to plenty of tactics that are "cheap" including the drain grip and throw, heavy stance jumpers, arm skin users, etc. Absorb/guns for the first, light stance mobility for the second, and arm skin users you just need to have good eyes ;)
I'll quit my so called "whining" now. If you want to bunny jump, whatever, go for it. You want to call people fanboys go for it. I highly anticipate the next FPS coming out, cuz the ppl left will be the ones who actually do play for fun (my opinion).
TDS
Lets put it this way, what if someone exploited a bug which enabled you to fly in spectator mode, and kill people, go through walls, capture the flag, yadda yadda yadda...much like the Spectator Hack for Half-life.
But this was simply by using the games engine instead of another program...would you deem this fair? And by all accounts should be used? If you would, then you have problems.
The whole reason ID left it in the system in the first place, was because they didn't know how to fix it when they first discovered it was there. But when they did find out, and wanted to, people whined about not being able to exploit the game anymore, so they left it in. If they had known how to fix it when they first discovered it, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
The issue at hand isn't weather it's fair or not, but weather the game was meant to be played with it, and since no where in star wars do you see idiots hopping around like monkeys, I'd have to say no, it wasn't meant for people to jump around.
I dont even know why I bother replying to threads, it's not like I can change anyones mind or anything. As in my before post, I'm sure I've contradicted myself and whatnot, but I dont care, I know what I mean :p.
Oh please, you wouldn't even BE here complaining about bunny-hopping if you were only in it for the gameplay. No, you're here ranting about how evil it is, because you want to win, but can't, and bunny-hopping is your excuse of the day.
First of all, as I have previously stated, strafe-jump does not = win. Second and more importantly, I HATE it when people assume that you MUST be like them. Just because a chap is complaining about strafe-jumping doesn't mean that he is complaining because he loses. Your assumption is insulting and ignorant.
Who gives a crap that the guy may be a fan of Star Wars!!!? I am willing to bet that a majority of people who bought this game did so because of the Star Wars license. Is it then so unreasonable to understand that for them to see a bunch of guys bouncing around a level makes the whole experience kind of cheesy?
When it comes down to it neither of you will ever agree with the other so why don't you just not play with each other? Just stay away from each other, play with people who you enjoy playing with and end of discussion. This is going nowhere.
I think a lot of people have given a very valid reason to use strafe jumping: to get to the action faster. I've seen that mentioned a couple of times, and I agree totally on that. JK2 levels are pretty big, and when I die and respawn at the other side of the level where no action is, I'd like to get to the action ASAP.... Cuz action=fun fun fun!!
running towards the action takes too long, so I either roll my way over there, or strafe jump. Both look stupid, but I'm not spending half an hour running a marathon at JK2's normal snail speed to get into the action.
So either leave strafejumping in, or make us run faster.. (or even make the levels smaller lol)... just don't leave us with that slow running!! :)
and please don't tell me to use force_speed, because I am one of those many players who plays on NF-servers.
Originally posted by Craggeh
Hah. This is complete rubbish :D If you knew how to strafe jump perfectly fine, you wouldn't be taking off into a level one force jump at all - once you've mastered even the basic strafe jump it's childsplay to string them into a chain without force jumping. As for not being able to keep up with the ysalamiri runner with force run enabled...
Are you crazy? A force jump whilst force running is all you'll ever need to catch one of those guys O.o some people need to work on their skills before complaining ^_^
I said I know how to strafe jump (which you didn't seem to read, or just ignored the fact that I said it), however, if I wanted to do mindless strafe jumping, getting the ysalamiri is an easier way to do it, because then I don't have to worry about holding space down just a little too long (which isn't too much of a problem, but if you've been jumping around crazily in a FFA game using force jump, it can happen :) ). Which I said in my post :)
I can strafe jump fairly easily (the joys of quake3 and ra3, where some of the maps are fairly huge). But why don't I mind strafe jumping in those? Because those games aren't based around any particular universe, or background. Whereas JK2 is. Strafe jumping does not suit the Star Wars universe, nor does it suit the gameplay of JK2.
And in regards to all the "fanboy" name calling thats happening in here, its funny that people think calling someone a Star Wars Fanboy is some awesome insult. It's not even insulting. Puh-lease.
Take the Grenade Cheat in RtCW for example. That is a Bug Exploit and anyone implemementing this bug is CHEATING.
Wasn't that patched in 1.1....
Hrm, to fix the strafe jumping, all Raven would need to do is tweak strafe speeds a bit. At least, you'd think that'd fix it. But then would we have the strafe jumping people crying about that?
"How do you feel it is not a cheat? It exploits a bug in the physics of the engine. A cheat like "wallhack" exploits a bug by using a differen't file which allows you to see through, you people seem to think that because it's a bug and not a program, it's ok to explot. Lets, just for kicks say there WAS an invincibility crouch-jump bug..."
as long as the technique doesn't upset gameplay balance to the point where it hurts the game, makes it less skilled, etc it's fine... it's probably arguable in JK2 whether or not bunnyhopping will seriously hurt gameplay... as it stands, it does have issues with the current implementation of force speed, so it probably will wind up as being more frowned upon than it is in Quake, etc... but one would really have to see how the competitive community in JK2 pans out with it being around.. if matches wind up losing something over this, then likely you'll have an answer as to whether or not this is good/bad for gameplay..
"Bug Exploitation is cheating, full stop! The isnt any argument that you could put up to promote your points of view."
bug exploiting doesn't always = cheating.. everything from rocket jumping, to concussion jumping (TF) were never originally intended to be there... but they were discovered and the gaming community wound up making a decision on a case-by-case scenerio as to whether or not the unintended result was something that deemed removal/fixing or at least tweaking in that specific game..
in TFC, bunnyhopping has since been toned down, so that class balance issues no longer are hurt.. in CS it was given a much more strict limitation, due to a much more fragile gameplay system..
I doubt that the double-jumping that exists in Quake2 was something that was thought up from the start, but after it was discovered, it was altered and developed more into a feature.. maps have been designed now to take advantage of it... it's even been intentionally added as a feature to Q3F...
HughJ, thanks for not quoting every single thing I said, and insulting...(at least I dont THINK you insulted...)
You talk about hurting gameplay, what could hurt gameplay more, than being able to outrun everyone, when your not even supposed to have ANY force powers at all. (I'm refering to CTY) The whole point of CTY, was for people who wanted more of a challenge, there is NOT a challenge in someone getting the yasil...little anmial thingie guy, and hopping all the way back to base, with having 0 chance to stop him. I've never seen bunny hopping on any server except CTY, nor do I think it's impact is as strong, I think it's more the principle of the thing, rather than the act itself. (with the exception of CTY)
Bunny-hopping in Q3 is fine, it's accepted, theres nothing to base it on except blatant rocket spamming and such, in JK2, it's based on a universe, and you people using BH, talk about us not being happy with the way the game was meant.
Heeeeeeeeeeeeellooooooooooooooooooooooooo...your abusing a bug that wasn't meant to be in the game, and really ruins the atmosphere of the game for other people. In a sense, your forcing your own rules apon us, (bunny-hop or you get screwed) but there can be so much debate on what "forcing rules apon others" are.
You're obviously not happy with the game, since you want to abuse a bug in the engine, theres just so many points of view that can be taken, it's impossible to really end the debate.
Ugh, I'm probably speaking in gibberish, it's light outside, and I havn't been to bed....BLAH!
Originally posted by Spider AL
Cheating, aka hacking, is the manipulation of a game's files/code to give an advantage to the cheater. Strafe-Jumping is a bug exploit. The fact that you can even confuse the two is laughable. :rolleyes: Bugs can be exploited by everyone without altering the game in any way.
Go to a dictionary and look the word "cheating" up. You'll see it has no reference to hacking. I fear you need to take an English class. :)
And, with your insistance that JO conform to your idea of what "Star wars should be about," you are making it clear exactly how much of a "fanboy" you are.
If that is what you think, fine, I couldn't care less. I still maintain it conforms to the genre as best it can.
Oh please, you wouldn't even BE here complaining about bunny-hopping if you were only in it for the gameplay. No, you're here ranting about how evil it is, because you want to win, but can't, and bunny-hopping is your excuse of the day.
Again putting words into my mouth. You sure love to do that. I don't have a problem winning, and I certainly don't have a problem losing. It is clear I'm not the only one who feels bunny-hopping is not playing the game in the right spirit. Don't try coming up with some lame excuse because we disagree on a matter.
I don't think you truly understand the definition of irony, my friend. And no, you can't extract it from any Alanis Morissette songs. :rolleyes:
I need to spell it out to you? By dismissing those calls that ask for the "bug" to be removed you are imposing your view of how the game should be played. It works both ways, so I wouldn't try and bring that argument up.
Good, since it wasn't a question, but a statement. Now here's a question you haven't answered, regarding your stance on gun-users. Do you wish gun-users to be disempowered by having their Force removed in FFAs? It certainly seemed that way in your previous post.
Yes, I would support that, but I will not make an issue of it because it fits in either way into the spirit of Star Wars. Bunny-hopping, on the other hand, doesn't. On top of which... but again you seem to enjoy ignoring my posts... it is unbalancing. It nulls force speed. That was, in fact, my main concern.
Defending what "settings" exactly? Are you referring to the bunny-hopping? As I recall, I stated twice that "It's irrelevant to me." It's irrelevant to me, because I have better things to do than to complain about it. And people who do complain about it, have ulterior motives for doing so.
If you find it so irrelevant, why are you here? If you don't care what happens, why are you even discussing it? I think you're just looking for an argument sicne you have nothing better to do.
What I have defended, and do defend, is the right of those who go onto a FF guns FFA server to use both Force powers and guns.
That is not part of the topic. Read the thread title, please.
lol, unlike you my primary concern for the game is not whether Jedi Outcast "conforms to the Star Wars universe." :rolleyes: Now you're really sounding like a fanboy.
The name calling continues. It is easy to spot weak arguments. They resort to such childish resources. Sigh.
Perhaps you're unaware that Jedi Outcast is... Shock horror - a game. Games are fun, but they also have winners and losers. Without a goal to accomplish, a game is no longer a game. And why do people want to win? Because winning is the goal of the game. Whoever reaches that goal first, gets a buzz.
You're missing the point. There's a difference between those who aim for a goal and those who will do whatever they can to reach it, even if it involves moving outside the spirit of the game.
Yes, I enjoy winning, I'd be a liar if I said I didn't. But somehow, I don't think I'm the one obsessed with it... Those who complain about the way in which others win a game, do so because they wished to win in his/her stead, and become obsessed.
A very poor deduction. It is so sad that you are incapable of appreciating the fact that some people simply don't care about winning. You may think it is everything, but believe it or not, many do not.
As I said previously, people who are so vehement about such bugs, tend to be the ones who cry the most sour grapes while losing.
So spawnkilling is alright? Base-raping is fine? Using the skin which only has two arms is ok too?
It's obvious to me that you have neither the interest in, nor the dedication to JO to become one of the so called "elite."
The first bit of sense you've made. 100% right. I simply don't have the time to play video games that much. But from the sounds of things, I wouldn't want to be part of the "elite", if all they do is tell you to shut-up, refer to you as a "fanboy" and keep calling you a poor loser. The correlation continues...
I get no excitement from being called a good player in a game (I mean, come on, it is all down to hand/eye co-ordination, not something I really care about). The only reason I enjoy any such remark is because it highlights the fact that I've finally found a server full of "nice" people.
And that would be fine, if you weren't so bitter. However, your obsessive insistance that JO conform rigidly to the alleged rules of the Star Wars universe, show a level of commitment to Star Wars that makes the "busy outside" and "enjoying the sunshine" portions a little too hard to stomach.
lol. I also get pissed when Hollywood distorts history in its films. I didn't start the thread, someone else did. I've voiced my opinion and will continue to do so. I know there's a culture that is fine to sit back and not say a word when they think something out of place (even worse are the guys telling you to shut up), but I'm not going to be part of it. Progress would never be made. I'm sure Raven are keen to hear what people are thinking. The thread was here, so I posted. Aprt from which, it takes me all of 5 mins to post a message. I don't know, maybe you require much longer for your replies, but I hardly find it time consuming, and I'm certainly not thinking about it other than when I read the forum messages. :)
My ask what you're obsession with posting here is then, other than telling us to shut up?
"Go to a dictionary and look the word "cheating" up. You'll see it has no reference to hacking"
'hacking' (external/modified game code to alter game mechanics) is about the only thing you can classify, without a shadow of a doubt, as "cheating" in online multiplayer games.. some game bugs are accepted, some are not.. these such things fall under a 'preference' category, as whether they are accepted or not can vary from league to league, or server to server... however convenient it may be to fall back on the "look it up in the dictionary" response, the context obviously doesn't relate to every given situation, including this one...
if I looked 'hacking' up in the dictionary, its definition would fall pretty closely to that of cfg modification, scripting, and other such things that aren't necessarily 'bad'... so it's kinda a moot point to bring dictionary definitions into this..
Strafe-jumping, or bunnyhopping, is in no way a cheat. It is a coded part of the game, there for the advantage of canny users. If the developers had thought of it as a cheat, it would have been removed - it has been around and known about in the Quake3 engine (purposely) for a long time now. Hey, its not even unrealistic - in a game where you can force jump 8 times normal height, bunnyhopping fits in well in my opinion. Don't complain about people using it to get away from you - learn how to do it, and catch up!
Originally posted by 70-228
PS. Jiro Kage I don't know where you got the idea that bunny hopping is only bunny hopping if started with a rocket powered speed up. It's always just been the another term for strafe jumping. And a usefull one too as it's clearer to describe what it does than how to do it.
You lost the plot buddy, and don't know your "gaming history". Back when this whole thing was learned about, you didn't strafe to catch the speed. It was known as bunny hopping then, because obviously, why would you say strafe jumping when you don't use strafe at all? when Q3 came on the scene and it got big (here I could be wrong - dunno how Q2 fits in it, but from WF I don't remember it) people started referring to it as strafe jumping. Therefore, some of us who still play TF/MTF refer to it as "bunny hopping" to differentiate the two styles of speeding up.
Besides that, bunny hopping is a LOT faster than strafe jumping could ever hope to be.
Go to a dictionary and look the word "cheating" up.
Certainly I shall! The Collins English Dictionary definition of cheat:
"Cheat vb 1. to deceive or practice deceit, esp. for one's own gain; trick or swindle (someone). 2. (intr.) to obtain unfair advantage by trickery, as in a game of cards."
Oh, and here's Dictionary.com's definition:
"cheat: v. cheat·ed, cheat·ing, cheats v. tr.
To deceive by trickery; swindle - To deprive by trickery; defraud
To mislead; fool - To elude; escape. v. intr. To act dishonestly; practice fraud. -To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards. - Informal. To be unfaithful: cheat on a spouse."
Now why don't you tell me how the word "cheating" applies to strafe-jumping? Hmm? Let's see: "To violate rules"? No, there is no rule saying that: "strafe-jumping in CTY games is banned and outlawed." Well, only if it's you who's made up the rules. :)
No, strafe-jumping is a bug exploit.
You'll see it has no reference to hacking.
Neither do the definitions contain any reference to "Bunny-Hopping." Thanks for proving my point so concisely, bunny-hopping is not cheating, and your belief that it IS cheating, is wrong.
In a game, when someone accuses one of cheating, they are accusing one of hacking the game. This is a normal online gaming link, and if you are unaware of it, then you truly have very little gaming experience.
I fear you need to take an English class.
Oh, how wonderfully condescending of you, my little smickering dumpling! :rolleyes: What next? Would you dazzle us with the remainder of your enormous repertoire of snide gibberish? :D
I certainly don't have a problem losing.
I very much doubt that you find losing difficult in any way, shape or form.
I'm not the only one who feels bunny-hopping is not playing the game in the right spirit.
Such an opinion is bound to attract many followers, to be sure. This does not make your opinion of what the "right spirit" is, the correct one. Just so you know. :rolleyes: Certainly, get a petition together and ask Raven to remove the strafe-jumping capability, if you wish to, and good luck to you. But don't fall into the trap of believing yourself to be the sole arbiter of Star-Warsyness on the planet Earth. Nor should you fall into the trap of believing that your idea of what a Star Wars game should be about, is important in any respect.
By dismissing those calls that ask for the "bug" to be removed you are imposing your view of how the game should be played. It works both ways, so I wouldn't try and bring that argument up.
Ahh but you are not me, a fact which I am eternally grateful for. Irony is, and I quote once again from Collins: "The humorous or mildly sarcastic use of words to imply the opposite of what they normally mean." or: "incongruity between what is expected to be and what actually is," So if I were to say that your arguments are adult, well-formed and based around factual ideas rather than your own self-interests, I would be using irony.
What you MAY be trying to accuse me of, is being a hypocrite... which would also be nonsense. :) You are the one talking about changing the basic structure of the game to suit you. The fact that I am pointing out your self-interested motives in this pursuit, is honest and forthright... anything but hypocritical.
Also, I have never said that bunny-hopping is a good thing, in fact, I have said that it is irrelevant to me. You insist on implying that I am defending bunny-hopping in some way, when I have made it plain that I don't give two figs whether it's in or out.
Now, I asked: "Do you wish gun-users to be disempowered by having their Force removed in FFAs?" You have answered:
Yes, I would support that
So! You would support the taking away of Force Powers from gunners. This says it all. You are only interested in obtaining a larger advantage for yourself in a game, because you have not the stomach to learn how to use a gun, yet you wish to play on guns servers. Petty. You would support the act of spoiling the game for gunners.
If you were truly unconcerned over whether you won games or not, you would not support the crippling of innocent gunners in this manner, because whether they won or not, would be irrelevant to you. I submit that it is painfully obvious that you wish to tailor the game to suit YOU, in order that you might stand a chance of winning more often. All your assertions that you "do not care" about winning, are bunkum and nonsense.
why are you here? If you don't care what happens, why are you even discussing it?
I initially responded to TDS' comments concerning "gun-whoring," and since then, I have been replying to your less than mature comments, notably your opinion that your view of what JO should be like, is the correct one. An opinion in which, you are painfully mistaken. You need to accept that gunners should, and do play the game while using Force powers. You also need to accept that after bunny-hopping, you'll probably find something else to complain about, because the game will never live up to your gargantuan expectations of how truly "Star-Warsy" it should be.
That is not part of the topic. Read the thread title, please.
Shouldn't I go take my English class first, just to make sure I'm prepared? :rolleyes:
It is so sad that you are incapable of appreciating the fact that some people simply don't care about winning. You may think it is everything, but believe it or not, many do not.
Oh I'm quite sure that there are some people who don't give a hoot about winning. You however, are not among them. :) As for me, I like to think that I make a bit of an effort to get better at the game every time I play, which is one way I get my fun from the game. To get better at the game, one must learn to accept defeat AND victory as part of the learning process. Thus, I care less about individual victories and defeats than your average player, and compared to you? Well, let's just say compared to an obsessive, I'm a positive picture of serenity.
I've voiced my opinion and will continue to do so
Oh joy. :rolleyes:
I know there's a culture that is fine to sit back and not say a word when they think something out of place (even worse are the guys telling you to shut up), but I'm not going to be part of it. Progress would never be made.
Oh get off your crusading horse, the sheen of your armour dazzles mine eyes. Here you go again, your opinion is the right one, you're the spokesman for a legion of right-thinking people, you're the knight who'll free the shackled sabreing denizens of Antibunnyhopland.
Let's make this plain and clear:
You've bought the game.
You go online.
People annoy and defeat you by using guns with force, and bunny-hopping away from you.
Instead of trying to learn tactics that counteract these situations, (and there are ALWAYS such tactics, tactics which may make bunny-hopping entirely useless as a practice, negating the need to have it removed) in less than two weeks after the official release date, before people have even had a CHANCE to get to know the game, and certainly before you've learned much about it yourself, you would like to have force powers taken away from gunners, and have strafe-jumping removed.
Well that's fine. Premature, but still, your choice. Petition Raven about it, see what they say.
So spawnkilling is alright? Base-raping is fine? Using the skin which only has two arms is ok too?
Well, I personally don't have any trouble defeating the people who have attempted such tactics when I was present. But if you want the things removed or disabled, petition Raven.
My ask what you're obsession with posting here is then, other than telling us to shut up?
Who did you say needed "to take an English class?" :confused:
Well, all grammar (or lack of it) aside, I post here to air my views. Your views and mine appear to be in conflict, so a debate has emerged. Questions have been asked, statements made. I continue posting, to respond to such statements and answer such questions. There's your answer.
You're obviously not happy with the game, since you want to abuse a bug in the engineI'm very happy with the game, actually :D
One last time, and the last thing I say on this particular topic...
Strafe jumping does NOT null force speed - without speed strafe jumping I can catch a strafe jumper with no problems whatsoever.
me out.
Originally posted by Spider AL
Now why don't you tell me how the word "cheating" applies to strafe-jumping? Hmm? Let's see: "To violate rules"? No, there is no rule saying that: "strafe-jumping in CTY games is banned and outlawed." Well, only if it's you who's made up the rules. :)
So what if there is a bug that allows you to become invisible? Is that not cheating? Just because it is part of the system does not mean it can by definition, not be cheating. That is why I brought it up. There is no black and white line on cheating, though you seem to think it exists. As for bunny-hopping, well I think it is cheating. You seem to be pissed off at this notion, but it won't stop me saying so. The thread is about it. If you are incapable of keeping on track with the topic then I suggest you create another thread where you can throw your insults (through all my time online I've amazed that people continue to believe they have any impact) around.
It also... I'll say it again... imbalances the game. The force speed is of no use. I notice you've avoided this issue throughout the entire "debate".
Neither do the definitions contain any reference to "Bunny-Hopping." Thanks for proving my point so concisely, bunny-hopping is not cheating, and your belief that it IS cheating, is wrong.
By the same argument neither is an aim-bot cheating.
Oh, how wonderfully condescending of you, my little smickering dumpling! :rolleyes: What next? Would you dazzle us with the remainder of your enormous repertoire of snide gibberish? :D
Hey, if you see something condescending there, well then that's your problem. Perhaps it is something inside of you you should investigate. :)
Nor should you fall into the trap of believing that your idea of what a Star Wars game should be about, is important in any respect.
I hope you realise the same of your's. I have not once denied the fact that it forces people to play the game a certain way, but you seem to be blind to the fact that any support of it does the same.
Ahh but you are not me, a fact which I am eternally grateful for. Irony is, and I quote once again from Collins: "The humorous or mildly sarcastic use of words to imply the opposite of what they normally mean." or: "incongruity between what is expected to be and what actually is," So if I were to say that your arguments are adult, well-formed and based around factual ideas rather than your own self-interests, I would be using irony.
Ohh dear, you are a poor-sighted person:
Irony: Use of language with one meaning for privileged few and another for those addressed or concerned.
Once again, I suggest you take an English lesson... perhaps an eye-test would be better. :)
So! You would support the taking away of Force Powers from gunners. This says it all. You are only interested in obtaining a larger advantage for yourself in a game, because you have not the stomach to learn how to use a gun, yet you wish to play on guns servers. Petty. You would support the act of spoiling the game for gunners.
I've asked you to do this a number of times, but you obviously don't understand it... please read my posts. If you had, you'd actually see I prefer using the guns. This rest of your comments regarding this are pointless since you've assumed wrongly.
As for the removal of force powers... once again you don't read my posts. I clearly stated it was from a reply to an e-mail someone sent to Raven (it is in the forum if you want to look). The developers themselves believe there is an imbalance here. I support it. Please, do your research before even beginning to design a response.
Oh I'm quite sure that there are some people who don't give a hoot about winning. You however, are not among them. :)
Thanks for telling me what I am. :rolleyes:
Well, let's just say compared to an obsessive, I'm a positive picture of serenity.
Says the guy who has also dedicated such long posts to this.
Well, all grammar (or lack of it) aside, I post here to air my views. Your views and mine appear to be in conflict, so a debate has emerged.
Well it seemed like a debate until you resorted to such childish comments. Why is it so many individuals have to resort to such language? The topic was still in focus until you decided to move it with comments on "fanboys" and "obsession". I'm more and more convinced that everyone's a bully on the internet.
You lost the plot buddy, and don't know your "gaming history"If you can tell me what the Ziggurat cheat was then I'll believe you know "gaming history" :rolleyes:
Whew! Flames getting a bit hot in this thread!:sweating:
Everybody calm down! It is after all just a game. This is after all an Internet forum and lets face it not everyone is going to agree with one another.
I think we've found some folks here who don't. I'm not saying hug and make up just tone it down a bit and try not to attack one another. Differing opinions are what makes the Internet great, not flame wars.
/me runs in case any flames shoot my way.
Originally posted by G-Ninja
Hey, its not even unrealistic - in a game where you can force jump 8 times normal height, bunnyhopping fits in well in my opinion.
Only one problem with saying that G-Ninja - Force jumping is a deliberate part of the game, and it's a part of the SW Universe. Bunny hopping is not.
Originally posted by Mafia_Jabba
-conclusion....Join a server w/ rules setup...thats the end i guess
seeing as how i doubt it will be removed, this will be the only option in the end ...
i still am not completely sold on the idea that it is soo horrible, and i definately don't agree with it, i guess im in the middle ...
So what if there is a bug that allows you to become invisible? Is that not cheating?
No my son, if it comes with the game, ready and able, it's a bug. It occurs to me that you're confusing "cheat" with "cheap." Yes, there's only one letter's difference, but you really should try your best to spot these things. ;)
If you want a bug to be removed, petition Raven. Whining at me, does you no good on that front. But it's a vaguely amusing distraction from the humdrum world around us for a few minutes a day. For that, I thank you wholeheartedly.
As for bunny-hopping, well I think it is cheating. You seem to be pissed off at this notion, but it won't stop me saying so.
You could scream it to the high heavens mate, doesn't make your opinion any less flawed. A bug is a bug, if you don't agree with it, fine. Petition Raven. But frankly, all this complaining is just sour grapes, and the only "pissed off" person in this room, is you. :D
You said that bunny-hopping:
imbalances the game. The force speed is of no use. I notice you've avoided this issue throughout the entire "debate".
As a matter of fact, I've addressed it several times. I have stated, and will again, that bunny-hopping can carry on forever, or it can stop today, and either way it will make no difference to me. I simply don't care about bunny-hoppers, no more than I care about people using Force Speed, or the Strong stance, or the Disruptor. There are ways of taking them out, good teamwork in CTY one example. If you can't find someone to play with you as a team on a server,.. well, go find someone.
On a side note, Force Speed has uses other than increasing forward speed, which you're obviously unaware of, and I'm not going to disadvantage your righteous opponents by informing you of them. :D You'd probably try to have them removed, anyway. ;)
By the same argument neither is an aim-bot cheating.
If I'm not mistaken, knowing comfortably little about cheating methods, a Quake 3 aimbot usually must be added to your system to work, having been downloaded or compiled by you. Therefore, it is a cheat. Strafe jumping is a bug, like Supergrip was in JK. You could do it without altering your game. If there were an unintentional Quake aimbot that could be activated "out of the box" as it were, then it would be defined as a bug, and it would be the choice of the community whether to petition Id to remove it. Having said that, bugs are available to be exploited by everyone, so it's up to the individual concience of each player to choose. I personally never touch bugs.
if you see something condescending there, well then that's your problem.
Actually being condescending is your problem. One of your problems. One of your many problems. :rolleyes:
I have not once denied the fact that it forces people to play the game a certain way, but you seem to be blind to the fact that any support of it does the same.
And who's supporting bunny-hopping, other than your imaginary friend? For the last time, hopefully, I don't give a hoot about bunny-hopping. I care about guns with Force being preserved. :) Something, you wish to destroy. Shame on you.
Ohh dear, you are a poor-sighted person: Irony: Use of language with one meaning for privileged few and another for those addressed or concerned.
And your source for that definition? I provided mine, or have you never compiled a list of sources/bibliography?
Once again, I suggest you take an English lesson... perhaps an eye-test would be better.
Aww "I wub ur widdiw insuwts." For someone with your obvious "flair" for grammar, you bandy the English lesson thing around a little too freely. But you bandy everything around too freely, from your tenuous opinions to your fundamentally flawed ideals.
My ask what you're obsession with posting here is then,
"Exqueez my!" who was your English tutor then, Jar-Jar Binks? :D
The developers themselves believe there is an imbalance here. I support it.
Ahh so whatever the developers decide is the "right thing," is that what your argument hangs on?
Then... what about the fact that they left bunny-hopping in? :rolleyes: That doesn't seem to have pleased you too well.
it seemed like a debate until you resorted to such childish comments.
Now that's hypocritical. (Not ironic.) Childish comments, like... ohhh "you need to take an English class," or "Ohh dear, you are a poor-sighted person?" Physician, heal thyself.
Thanks for telling me what I am.
Someone has to mate, otherwise you'd just be obliviously unpleasant. ;)
I'm more and more convinced that everyone's a bully on the internet.
lol I'm a bully? You're the one who's trying to force his view of what JO should be like onto the entire Outcast playing public. Your hypocrisy stuns me friend. :) Either you're intentionally selfish, or... god knows. Good luck in your petition to Raven... You'll need it.
"what about the fact that they left bunny-hopping in?"
considering we're talking about Raven here.. whom have made more Quake-engine adaptions than I can count (every single Quake having some form of bunnyhopping/strafejumping) I guess the (honest) question remains, why didn't they remove it?
it's been able to be dealt with in other games through various methods.. why not here?
Originally posted by Fyunch Click
Whew! Flames getting a bit hot in this thread!:sweating:
Everybody calm down! It is after all just a game. This is after all an Internet forum and lets face it not everyone is going to agree with one another.
I think we've found some folks here who don't. I'm not saying hug and make up just tone it down a bit and try not to attack one another. Differing opinions are what makes the Internet great, not flame wars.
/me runs in case any flames shoot my way.
Exactly!! All this bickering is no good at all:
Will some anti-bunny-hop person convince a bunnyhopper to stop doing it by posting a lot on these boards? NO
Will a bunnyhopper convince a anti-hopper it's all good an legit? NO
I haven't seen anybody yet who said: "oh ok, you're so right, all your posts have convinced me that bunnyhopping IS good/bad!".
This is the internet, I've seen so many discussions on many forums, always one group who's against something, and one group who is for something. And it always ends up with one group who's against something, and one group who is for something.
So just... stay objective.. stop the personal insults.. RavenSoft's the only one who can do anything about it, so address your points to Raven, and don't flame personal insults at some dude behind his pc.
I think we may have accidentally stumbled upon the third topic beyond religion and politics that its just plain pointless to debate over.....bunny hopping :)
I think everyone has said their piece, and each additional post seems more like a waste of bandwidth. I smell a closed thread in the air....
TDS
Will some anti-bunny-hop person convince a bunnyhopper to stop doing it by posting a lot on these boards? NO Actually once upon a time I was a pro bunny! That was quite a few years ago though. However it was threads like these combined with the effect it had on one of my favourite games that changed my mind. Basically the game I like was dying when a few people rediscovered strafing and within months the game was dead.
These threads "can" open people's eyes. However most don't actually reveal the fact as it can be an ego bruising experience to admit when you're wrong.
Well, its like I said... just agree to not play together and where will the problems lie? If you don't like bunny-hoppers don't play with them.... and vice versa ... if you don't like each other then avoid playing against each other....damn.
This thread is like the wars that have been going on in the middle east for centuries. They've been going at it for so long with so many casualties that neither side will give up the ghost just out of sheer spite and pride. They don't even know what they're fighting about now and Im not sure I do either... is the arguement about strafe-jumping, winners vs. losers, guns and the Force or is it about grammar? Or is it about whos pen15 is bigger? :rolleyes:
I forget.
>No my son, if it comes with the game, ready and able, it's a bug. It occurs to me that you're confusing "cheat" with "cheap."<
ah, so if you enter helpusobi 1 youre not activating the cheats but youre exploiting a bug? if you enter CHEAT-codes in any game youre only using a bug?
that definition is too simple to work and though i dont agree 100% with someone saying bug exploiting is cheating i agree with that a lot more than 'hey, its in the game so its fair to use it'.
it's quite simple:
-someone is using it and you dont like it: vote for a kick and see if the others share that opinion or leave the game
-you are using it and get kicked: dont be surprised
Bunnyhoppers -- bug, cheat, legit, whatever you want to call it -- do you at least concede this, and only this: if you saw Luke bunnyhopping in Star Wars fighting Vader, would you think it was retarded-looking?
You're playing a Star Wars game. Let's say the developers were on crack and added an old-style tommy gun from the '30s. But it worked pretty well. Would you use it with no complaints, or would you say "it works great, but... I don't know what it's doing here."
Originally posted by Spider AL
If you want a bug to be removed, petition Raven. Whining at me, does you no good on that front. But it's a vaguely amusing distraction from the humdrum world around us for a few minutes a day. For that, I thank you wholeheartedly.
I dread to think how boring your life might be that you get kicks from this.
You could scream it to the high heavens mate, doesn't make your opinion any less flawed.
My, what an open-minded person you are. :rolleyes:
And your source for that definition? I provided mine, or have you never compiled a list of sources/bibliography?
I would have thought the eye-sight comment would have given that away. The same source as yours... a dictionary, the Oxford dictionary to be precise. But it appears you only read the first line of anything printed. I'll have that apology now.
Ahh so whatever the developers decide is the "right thing," is that what your argument hangs on?
Then... what about the fact that they left bunny-hopping in? :rolleyes: That doesn't seem to have pleased you too well.
Developers are aware they make mistakes. That is why they seek to correct them. I didn't say the developers support it and thus so do I, I said that I happen to agree with them.
Now that's hypocritical. (Not ironic.) Childish comments, like... ohhh "you need to take an English class," or "Ohh dear, you are a poor-sighted person?" Physician, heal thyself.
Nope. If you read the sentence again you'll note I'm refering to you starting the insults. Another misreading on your behalf. You really need to think when running through the posts.
lol I'm a bully?
I didn't say that. ;)
It seems I have touched a never with my general comment though.
You're the one who's trying to force his view of what JO should be like onto the entire Outcast playing public.
Do you not see you are doing the same? Whether it be defending those who "cheat" or supporting gunners and force usage.
Originally posted by hughJ
"CS aswell as HLDM run on the quake2 engine so bunnyhopping was possible"
HL/CS/TFC run on a modified Quake1 engine, not Quake2..
the bunnyhopping mechanics for HL/CS/TFC are slightly different than that of Quake2 and Quake3, due to the relative low amount of air-control involved in Quake2 and Quake3, compared to HL...
...
When will the which version of the quake engine is HL on
discusion DIE!
According to valve they STARTED with the original Quake [with opengl renderer] source code, and were given SEVERAL updates by id, who was molding the quake engine into the quake2 engine, leaving them somewhere around the quake 1.5 engine.
Chances are the bunny hopping "feature" was in those UPDATES, so......... Rasafrackin tangents to the point of the thread.....
Bunny (Strafe) jumping nor roling DOES NOT eliminate the use for force speed. Granted you can move lineraly faster with these techniques but force speed has other uses than running away.
Originally posted by 70-228
If you can tell me what the Ziggurat cheat was then I'll believe you know "gaming history" :rolleyes:
Unlike you, I don't follow the cheats in a game. In fact, it could be the name for something that I know as something different. Ie, Gotwalls and AA are often mislabeled as the same thing.
However, I have one word for you....boom.
It didn't start with Q1 until the quakeworld mod became popular. After that, Q1 was split up into two comunities, Netquake and Quakeworld players. It was Q2 that made it a intergraded part of the game. I could never play Q2 without strafe jumping, it was second nature to most Q2 player, I do it without even thinking about it. Which I guess hurts me since Q2 as I automatically try to strafe jump in every fps I try, lol. In Q3 they reduced it to only 2 starfe jumps in a row. I haven't played Q3 in over a year so I don't know if this changed as I switched to UT. I still love Q2/Q3, and I'll always think of myself as a Quaker, funny how games become part of you. As for the jumping in JKII, I think this won't be looked at by Raven until JKII gets into big lan tournaments and online tournaments, this is when most of the changes come when tourney players start to complain and the organizers of the tourneys set standard rules for gameplay.
BA
This is in regard to Competitive play:
As of now the TWL is not considering it a cheat and it is not banned in ladder play.
That said, the TWL isn't running CTY ladders at this moment either.
Competition is starting now. Give us, the folks in the ladders and leagues, some time to deal with it. We're going to hammer the game to death, if something sucks then we'll vote to have it removed from the ladders and see if Raven can do something about it, or we'll get someone to create a Tourney Mod that prevents it.
As to pubbing?
I play on a pub to relax and have fun. True coordination doesn't happen on pubs. Never has, never really will at least not until we can all talk directly to one another without voicecomm progs. So don't whine, just ask the offending player to stop, if that fails vote to kick, if that fails go find another server. It isn't like there's only 10 servers out there.
I dread to think how boring your life might be that you get kicks from this.
Aamof my good, dear friend, "For that, I thank you wholeheartedly." etc. was irony. Something you're not too familiar with, I understand. :)
The same source as yours... a dictionary, the Oxford dictionary to be precise.
Ohhh a fact you may not be aware of: Different dictionaries use different wording in their definitions. Or do you think that all dictionaries by all scholarly publishers are printed exactly alike? lol It's not my eyesight that's at fault, it's your apparent belief that all lingual reference books contain the same print, verbatim. :rolleyes:
As for the definition itself, it proves my point. "Use of language with one meaning for privileged few and another for those addressed or concerned." bears no relation to my previous posts. I stated that your attempts to warp the game to your idea of what Star Wars should be like, was selfish and self-interested. You contend that I am guilty of the same thing, so you're still confusing irony with hypocrisy and you can add dithering incomprehension to your loooong list of personal faults. :) Once again, you prove my point admirably. Thank you! You are truly a gift to anybody with an opposing viewpoint to yourself.
Throughout this thread you've made it clear that you consider yourself the person with the "correct" viewpoint, qualified to tell game-developers when they've made mistakes by leaving such things as bunny-hopping in? Truly you are a godlike figure! :rolleyes:
Let's be clear, you're the one who wants to alter the engine to disadvantage guns/force users.
I'm refering to you starting the insults.
Care to point out where I started the insults? Just so that the good people here can see what innocuous statement sent you off into this blind, self-righteous and self-aggrandising chain of posts, naturally. :p
And re: you calling me a "bully," you state:
I didn't say that.
Ohh you didn't eh? Let's see:
I'm more and more convinced that everyone's a bully on the internet.
Yes, seems a pretty clear and plain case of childish sideways implication, but if you say it's not, I'll believe you. :)
But on a completely different subject, here's a "general comment," (unrelated to you of course,) I'm more and more convinced that "everyone's" an arrested, whining loser on the internet. :rolleyes:
It seems I have touched a never
Jar-Jar's really making you study hard, isn't he.
Do you not see you are doing the same?
Actually what I'm doing is pointing out your blatant selfishness, in wishing that gun-users be penalised for using guns by having their Force powers taken away. Shame on you, and those who share your view on the guns/force subject, for forcing your view of what the game should be like onto innocent players who are currently enjoying themselves on servers designed specifically for guns and force. How dare you.
it was threads like these combined with the effect it had on one of my favourite games that changed my mind.
Yes, threads such as this do affect some people, sometimes. Hopefully, some people who resent losing on public servers will be affected positively by the debate on here, and will see the flaws in whatever hangups they possess that cause them to whine. However, realistically, debate serves relatively little purpose, but as social animals we all feel the need to voice our views at some time.
ah, so if you enter helpusobi 1 youre not activating the cheats but youre exploiting a bug?
This is a good question, but I must point out that cheat codes in games such as JO and Quake are disabled on servers by default. They must be enabled manually and intentionally by the server admins for users to use them in games. Therefore, players that use them on those servers cannot be classified as having broken any rules, thus they have not "cheated" per-se.
The term "cheat-codes" was coined back in the arcade game days, and is hence a throwback that bears little resemblance to the hardened, mercenary and evil multiplayer hacking that people do in order to cheat these days.
Also! If people recode their games so that they can use the codes on servers where the cheat codes have not been enabled, then they have hacked their game, hence that would definitely be cheating!
Because cheating is when you truly do cheat, to further your own game in secret, or to just plain annoy other players by ruining their games. Games tend to be designed (at least slightly) to resist behaviour of this type, thus people must manually recode at least some portion of their game in order to cheat. It might be very easy, as easy as importing a new config file, or adding a .pk3 to your system, but it's still cheating. But if, like strafe-jumping or Supergripping, there is something you can do without altering your game in any way, it is surely a bug, which everyone, regardless of fore-knowledge or coding ability, is able to emulate, do by accident, or otherwise employ.
Not all bugs are evil, rocket jumping in Quake was a bug. Id never thought it could be used in the way it was used by the players... and yes, some people whined about rocket-jumping. Yet it's integral to the FPS multiplayer community these days.
Hope that's clarified my opinion, anyway Trienco. Peace, out.
wow... you guys love to argue semantics... and deeply too
You ppl really have alot of time...writing pages and pages of nonsense all day...STFU and play the game already!
I skipped all the posts.
If everyone can do it, its not a cheat.