Alright, here it is.... RobQel-Droma and myself got into a debate over weather or not you are or are not a Jedi at the start of TSL. My opinion os no.
I say this cause of the fact that he was cut of from the force. and knowing the force is there around you does not make you a jedi. nor does being able to use the force untrained. further, where the Exile is concerned, he is learning how to use the force again. to me that makes him a Padawan, and to a certain extent Traya's Padawan.
My base for this statement is from reading the novels... The Jedi Academy trilogy by Kevin J. Anderson hos some very good references for this. but anyway, Rob will no doubt have his thoughts up here soon enough and you'll be able to see both our sides of this debate.
Let's see, if it isn't that obivious:
1. You are exiled from the Order
2. You can't use Magic [The Force, whatever] (yet)
3. You don't have a lightsabre
4. You don't have Jedi Robes
Conclussion: No.
And here I am :D.
I say yes, he can still feel the force, which makes him force-sensitive. And besides that, he knows that he has the force and that he can use it. Even though he lost all of his force powers, he still has his connection to the force, and starts regaining those force powers immediately after his conversation with Kreia. Being her padawan doesn't really mean anything as far as gameplay, for most of the game you are actually stronger than her.
I am not saying that The Exile was a Jedi in the sense of the regular fully-trained Jedi Knight (like the Jedi you see in the movies) blah blah blah.... But he still is a light-oriented force-user, so he is a "Jedi" for lack of a better term.
EDIT: Vlad, you don't have to have a saber and robes to be a Jedi. Even when you start leveling up with powers you still don't have them, remember :rolleyes:?
And besides that, he knows that he has the force and that he can use it.
Non-Jedi (Force Sensitives) CAN use it. But Jedi USE it. Those are two very different things.
^So? He can use the force, and he ends up using the force, does he not?
^So? He can use the force, and he ends up using the force, does he not?
Ahhh... But he ENDS up using Magic. But in the beginning, he cannot.
Technically, the Exile was not a Jedi. He may have been able to feel the Force during his exile, but he was no longer a member of the Jedi Order.
I thought you had to be trained by a master and accepted by the Jedi counsel to be a jedi, and that after many years of training.
Just because you're force sensitive doesn't mean you know enough or can control it enough to be effective as a Jedi. Jedi must be trained rigorously to maintain their faith and resist the darkside.
"There's nothing here for me now. I want to go with you to Alderan. I want to learn the ways of the force and become a Jedi like my father."
"The force is with you young skywalker, but you're not a Jedi yet."
The Exile really wasn't a Jedi. He/She was expelled from the Jedi Order therefore it doesn't carry the title Jedi. Really it it a technicality. In my lowly opinion, the title Jedi doesn't mean anything, it is how you use your powers in the gameplay that matters and determines who you are. I believe in the credo that we are defined by our actions, even more so by how we treat those we consider inferior rather than our equals. :violin:
Originally, the argument was whether there was a difference between the two games, and whether you were some regular guy in both of them. I am not saying that you are technically a "Jedi", I am saying that you are a force-user and are force-sensitive in TSL, and you weren't in KotOR. I didn't mean that you were a Jedi as all of you are thinking of the word "Jedi."
I don't see a difference. Both lost their powers in the beginning but they regain them through the gameplay. The Exile just gets his sooner than Revan.
I am not saying that you are technically a "Jedi", I am saying that you are a force-user and are force-sensitive in TSL, and you weren't in KotOR. I didn't mean that you were a Jedi as all of you are thinking of the word "Jedi."
then in your opinion, in the context that you are using the word "Jedi", everyone who can sense the force is a jedi..... when bastila told you in KOTOR, that she felt the force in you... from what you have said, you are a Jedi. I dont accept this thoery... There is no "technically a Jedi". either you are or you are not, if you are Exiled, and stripped of the force, you are no longer a Jedi in any sense of the word, and because you can sense it once more does not make you a Jedi again.
Not everyone who senses the force is a Jedi, I never said that. I was saying that while you may not be a Jedi, you are still not a "average citizen/soldier" like you where (or thought you were) in KotOR. You are force-sensitive, and can feel the force in TSL. That is what I meant, maybe I phrased that wrong.
He is not a Jedi. Its been said several times that the word Jedi is simply a title. Thus, as he is not part of the Jedi Order, he does not bare the title of Jedi. He's simply a Force User. Not as restrained as a Jedi because he is not bound by their rules and regulations.
He is not a Jedi. Its been said several times that the word Jedi is simply a title. Thus, as he is not part of the Jedi Order, he does not bare the title of Jedi. He's simply a Force User. Not as restrained as a Jedi because he is not bound by their rules and regulations.
A very good point... I second this opinion
He is not a Jedi. Its been said several times that the word Jedi is simply a title. Thus, as he is not part of the Jedi Order, he does not bare the title of Jedi. He's simply a Force User. Not as restrained as a Jedi because he is not bound by their rules and regulations.
I mentioned that as well but I disregarded it as a technicality.
"Trained as a Jedi you request for him."
i say yes, he can be called a Jedi.
basically, youre looking at the character DURING the time he/she gets his/her powers back. it was popular knowledge that the Exile and Revan were Jedi and lost their powers due to amnesia(revan) or not using them at all(exile)
since Revan becomes sith lord/gets a medal for killing Malak, it proves that he is trained and can kill a Sith Master like Malak.
similarly, in TSL, (though i never played it) the exile goes against Sion and Traya, two sith lords, and defeats them. what you should focus on is what the person achieved at the END of the story, if the character is still a wimpy old scout or something then obviously he/she is and insult to the game. :D
in short: if the character's skills are back to what it was before or better, then he/ she can be called a jedi.
basically, youre looking at the character DURING the time he/she gets his/her powers back. it was popular knowledge that the Exile and Revan were Jedi and lost their powers due to amnesia(revan) or not using them at all(exile)
since Revan becomes sith lord/gets a medal for killing Malak, it proves that he is trained and can kill a Sith Master like Malak.
Revan was always the more powerful. Even Kreia said Revan was power.
similarly, in TSL, (though i never played it) the exile goes against Sion and Traya, two sith lords, and defeats them. what you should focus on is what the person achieved at the END of the story, if the character is still a wimpy old scout or something then obviously he/she is and insult to the game. :D
in short: if the character's skills are back to what it was before or better, then he/ she can be called a jedi.
Got a point there. However we are talking about how the PC starts off. They started off as individuals without powers but that doesn't mean that they weren't in tuned to the Force. True they do become Jedi and if you deal the points right, some butt kicking Jedi.
"The Force is in all of us thought for some it is barely but a measurable whisper."-Bastilla
"You could survive merely because you see things they can't."-Kreia to Atton
in short: if the character's skills are back to what it was before or better, then he/ she can be called a jedi.
We're not talking about what they are in the end of the game. Sorry, but the Exile was sent packing from the Jedi order.... pretty much saying, your no longer a Jedi. Just becasue he/She regains the use of the force and conquors over all at then end of the game by no means says they were a Jedi at the start.
Why does Luke call Kyle katarn a jedi?
he practically grabbed his saber, and went to kill Dessan.
I think someone can be qulified 'Jedi' if he uses the Force to protect all living beiings in the universe.
Someone can be qualified Dark Jedi or Sith if he uses the Force for his own good, to profit from it's power.
I think that's it.
Simple and right to the point. Like I said it is defined by choice.
I don't see how the Exile could be considered a Jedi at the beginning of TSL. The Exile had been expelled from the Jedi Order, not to mention the fact that the Exile had lost connectivity to the Force. IMO, force sensitive does not equate to being a Jedi. What I think the argument boils down to though is how one defines what a Jedi is. If one defines a Jedi as a force sensitive who helps others, rights wrongs, and supports the cause of peace then one could say the Exile is a Jedi at the beginning of the game (if playing Exile as LS character). However, I define a Jedi as one who has been accepted into the Jedi Order and generally follows the Jedi Code. By that definition then the Exile would not be a Jedi since the Jedi Council had expelled the Exile from the order.
IMO, force sensitive does not equate to being a Jedi. When I think the argument boils down to though is how one defines what a Jedi is. If one defines a Jedi as a force sensitive who helps others, rights wrongs, and supports the cause of peace then one could say the Exile is a Jedi at the beginning of the game (if playing Exile as LS character). However, I define a Jedi as one who has been accepted into the Jedi Order and generally follows the Jedi Code. By that definition then the Exile would not be a Jedi since the Jedi Council had expelled the Exile from the order.
Exactly
I don't see how the Exile could be considered a Jedi at the beginning of TSL. The Exile had been expelled from the Jedi Order, not to mention the fact that the Exile had lost connectivity to the Force.
Well the Sith chasing the Exile believe him to be a Jedi.
IMO, force sensitive does not equate to being a Jedi. What I think the argument boils down to though is how one defines what a Jedi is. If one defines a Jedi as a force sensitive who helps others, rights wrongs, and supports the cause of peace then one could say the Exile is a Jedi at the beginning of the game (if playing Exile as LS character).
You could be right there. Check out the thread on views on Jedi.
However, I define a Jedi as one who has been accepted into the Jedi Order and generally follows the Jedi Code. By that definition then the Exile would not be a Jedi since the Jedi Council had expelled the Exile from the order.
Yes but then why does the class option state Jedi Guardian, Sentinel or Consular when you create the character?
Techinqly he is just a force user he lost the title of jedi when he left for the wars tho it was a light sided move to go to the war it ended up costing him everything he held dear now if that isnt a selfsacraficing jedi i dont no what is
To me the Exile is a Force user that cut himself off of the Force at Malachor V. He can't be a Jedi since he was cast out by Jedi council.
Techinqly he is just a force user he lost the title of jedi when he left for the wars tho it was a light sided move to go to the war it ended up costing him everything he held dear now if that isnt a selfsacraficing jedi i dont no what is
Well, it depends on how you play the game because you could have easily said that battle called or you went for bloodshed.
I agree that the Exile was a selfsacrificing Jedi but when he returned, at his trial, they said he was a Jedi no longer. The funny thing is, he still followed the Jedi way. Old habits die hard me thinks.
I said no, because the exile turned away from the force, and the force is the very essence of the jedi.
I would say "Yes" ...
Although the exile cut himself off the Force, this did not change his character or behaviour... jedi is not the same as "Force user" - it is (at least partially) a religion or at least an ethical system, which the exile would also follow after severing himself from the Force.
Also, Kreia at your first encounter tells you that all of your appearance and behaviour reveal you as a jedi. (considering her background she could have been lying, but I cannot really see why she in this case should)
Well she sensed the exile as the wound in the force, thats how she knew the exile to be a jedi, or someone she could use as her new apprentice.
"The Force is in all of us though for some it is barely a measureable whisper"-Bastilla
The Exile though cast out still followed the Jedi way. Though he wandered beyond the Rim for five years he still could feel the echo. Another thing, if he was no Jedi, how could he resist the sedatives on Peragus?
He was banned, sent away... EXILED. just casue he could still sense it doesnt make him a Jedi..... they same in reality as it is in our books, and games. when a baseball player gets kicked out and banned from the MLB he is no longer a profesional ball player. he still has the tallent, but has lost what he was.
I had to vote 'yes'. It's like riding a bike, right? You never forget.
when a baseball player gets kicked out and banned from the MLB he is no longer a profesional ball player. he still has the tallent, but has lost what he was.
Nope. A baseball player is still a baseball player, even if he isn't following that profession. He has the skills, and he can do it. Even though he isn't playing baseball, that doesn't mean that he still isn't a baseball player, regardless of whether that is his current occupation.
Nope. A baseball player is still a baseball player, even if he isn't following that profession. He has the skills, and he can do it. Even though he isn't playing baseball, that doesn't mean that he still isn't a baseball player, regardless of whether that is his current occupation.
I agree.
^^ you are still a ball player, but you are NOT part of the group/organization ... the MLB... just as he/she is no longer part of the Jedi Order, he/she is just a force user, not a Jedi.
and by the way rob, I said he was no longer a professional, ... and you can say it isnt the same thing, but it is... if you meet a person and they say they are a Baseball player..... first question your going to ask is "Who do you play for?" ... oh, well I used to I, was banned from playing again. You are NOT a ball Player in the. Jedi is a profesion, a way of life ... if you are kicked, out... or leave on your own never to return.... that means in the eyes or those you would encounter that are still in the order you would not be a Jedi....
and by the way rob, I said he was no longer a professional, ... and you can say it isnt the same thing, but it is... if you meet a person and they say they are a Baseball player..... first question your going to ask is "Who do you play for?" ... oh, well I used to I, was banned from playing again. You are NOT a ball Player in the. Jedi is a profesion, a way of life ... if you are kicked, out... or leave on your own never to return.... that means in the eyes or those you would encounter that are still in the order you would not be a Jedi....
Think of it this way: You're a CPA. You just got your license about a year ago. You quit your job (any reason) and decide to look for a new one. While you have no job, you are still a CPA.
Think of it this way: You're a CPA. You just got your license about a year ago. You quit your job (any reason) and decide to look for a new one. While you have no job, you are still a CPA.
you seem to be either not understanding what i'm writing or just not reading it.... I have said banned, and exiled. those two words, emphasis on BANNED, mean that you have been kicked out.
and I tend to look at the Jedi order in the same light as the Marine Corps. Once a Marine always a Marine. but if you walk away/quit or a kicked out. you are no longer a Maine.
same thing here, he/she was no longer a Jedi... just a force user.... not even that since the connnection to the force was lost
you seem to be either not understanding what i'm writing or just not reading it.... I have said banned, and exiled. those two words, emphasis on BANNED, mean that you have been kicked out.
and I tend to look at the Jedi order in the same light as the Marine Corps. Once a Marine always a Marine. but if you walk away/quit or get kicked out, you are no longer a Marine.
same thing here, he/she was no longer a Jedi... just a force user.... not even that since the connnection to the force was lost
:hatchrun: Good point... I'll have to study before I can get a good comback...
If the council put's you in exile you'll lose the rank of jedi but you'll never forget how to wield a lightsaber properly.
Force powers are not easy to learn and if you forget them i think it's hard to get back at them.
But i picked the first choice on the poll..
the jedi order is a religion, and not being part of the religion but using the force is like the difference between satanism and christianity (alot like jedi and sith).
so I would believe the exile is not a jedi.
the jedi order is a religion, and not being part of the religion but using the force is like the difference between satanism and christianity (alot like jedi and sith).
so I would believe the exile is not a jedi.
Religion?
The jedi believe and trust in the force.
There is no such of "god" for them there is only the force.
I think it's not a religion.
^ Budhism is a religion wheres their god? Rastafarianism is a religion wheres there god? A religion doesn't need a god, a religion is a way of life, a belief. And plus in several movies and books the jedi was refered to as none other than a religion
You my friend are all thats left of their religion-Tarkin Episode IV
...jedi adhere to their none theisical religious dogma no matter what-jangotat some clone wars novel.
I voted yes because the exile got exiled for jedi masters not knowing enough about what happened to him. Just because you cut yourself off from the force dosn't mean a jedi master should just exile him. Plus the Jedi Masters admitted that they should of told you why they exile you and some of them thought that they did the wrong thing in doing so. So due to the in confidence and inexperience of the jedi masters who exiled him i believe that they had no right to cast him out just cause he cut him self off from the force.
He may have gone to war but that means nothing because if you ask me the jedi were ignorant to not go to war during the mandilorian war. So really i see no reason why he is not a jedi. He used the force for what was right and good. He needed no redemption because what he did saved him and the Republic from falling. For if those jedi did not go to the war there would be no Republic or Jedi Order. So really I believe they should be commended for what they did by the jedi order. There just wasn't any good reason for the exile to be cast out. So really he should still be a jedi.
^ Budhism is a religion wheres their god? Rastafarianism is a religion wheres there god?
Budhism? I think buddha and sjeiva are gods ..
But i don't know hell about Rastafarianism.
The budha is an enlightned person and ANYONE can become a budha if they acheive enlightment Not divinity.
come now, you should learned that in school.
Budhism is a religion wheres their god? Rastafarianism is a religion wheres there god? A religion doesn't need a god, a religion is a way of life, a belief. And plus in several movies and books the jedi was refered to as none other than a religion
A religion has to have a divine entity that is worshipped in some way or another, otherwise it isn't a religion. The Force is not a "God" that is worshipped by the Jedi, it is just a powerful energy field that the Jedi call upon to protect the galaxy. You should have learned that from Yoda. :)
You my friend are all thats left of their religion-Tarkin Episode IV
Was Tarkin a Jedi/Sith? No, he wasn't, and all he really knew about the Force was that it was handy for choking people. He didn't really understand the Force at all. If you notice Rok_stoned, the Jedi Order is only referred to as a religion by non force-sensitive sentients that didn't know about the Force. It wasn't called that by Jedi, or Sith, who actually use it.