many gamers have wanted to be immersed in a star wars universe.....

that could all be done.

let me explain some things that would enhance the image of the star wars universe:

1) you create or choose a character

2) you get placed in a servers called PLANETS. let me explain: each server is a different planet on which you live on; these arent your normal servers. these servers include single player and multiplayer together. To elaborate:

3) you start a new identity on a "planet" and u live and save your progress(only) in an appartment building where you have your own room which only you have access to

4)As you travel thorugh different markets, you obtain market codes which when you enter in your appratrment you are able to buy, sell. trade items from within your appartment without having to travel all the way to the market itself

5)within the building perameters there is a massive garage for those who live in the building:
each player is allowed to keep probably only one vehicle within the garage

6) moving along, within the server/world there are various buildings, on of which is an Academy, presumingly for Jedis. This Academy is used for training. To explain: as your character progress mentally and physically they are able to gain new features towards themeselves such as
endurance: how welll you take damage, reflex: how well you react and block , etc. ; you are able to gain new force powers such as push, pull, grip,lightining, heal, etc. All of these features towards your character must be trained with within the Jedi Academy. Not going into too much detail, your character must train and live temporarily within the academy and train with others to excell his character in different areas.

7) continuing, as it could be predicted, servers/worlds will fill up and therefore, there should be many of them, each significantly different (different terrains, buildings, items, etc.). Now you ask
" well...how how can i go to planet XYZ and talk to Joe Shmoe? "
....to answer that, you go to a special place where starcrafts are held, you get into a planet transportation shuttle and it will take you to the planet of your choice. .... now you ask,how do I save when on another planet? well to answer that you should have a choice of renting an appartment.

8) the gameplay will be very similair to Jedi Acedmemy although one main new feature that will DEFINETLY be noticable. I call it - The Blocking Button -!!
in Jedi Academy you do not quite control defense....but within this game, blocking will be don automaticlly 10-20 percent of the time and manually blocking will have to be taken in mind when fighting; for in Jedi Acedmy/Outcast the game is very strongly based around runing around, moving away from an attack and then jumping towards the enemy with another attack (no defensive side to th game really).
No you ask - where can we fit the Block button to make the fighting comfortable? well, already thought of that. If youre using the mouse, and you probably are, then the block button would be the Middle mouse button.

9) your character would probably be able to carry a few weapons (unlike Jedi Academy you should be grounded to the floor for you carrymrethen 10 weapons and items). You always carry a pistol. (1) You carryYou are able to carry (1) BIG WEAPON such as rocket launcher. And you are able to carry (1) Medium size weapon. And you carry a lightsaber/sword (1)

10) your health would go down realisticlly. your armor will prevent a horrible death. and as in HALO, your able to purchase for a great deal of money a Power Shield. This prevents a minimum amount of damage going through. when it wears down normal damage will go through. but soon the Power Shield recharges.



if I think of anything else I'll add it in


msg me if u want at ibendelman@hotmail.com


understand this is only a taste of whatcould be done to let star wars fans live thier star wars fantasy



.......*taking in breath*

as for a question that wold probably soon be asked....

what if people decide to go a bit , lets just say, whack and start breaking the true experience??

well....LET THEM!!!


the reason they could do alot of what they want is because just as they have committed a
" Planet Crime ", the Planet Gaurdians are right there after them.

depending on the crime, the player must pay in credits for what he has done...if he has no credits then he must give out a weapong/item equivelant to the price he mustpay or he is to be put in Prison (no joke...you will have to - wait - to play again.)

so if your gonna lame or steal vehicles ..which you can do.....you will be fined or criminilized.

you can do a crime - make you have credits or items to get out of trouble.

but how can i forget the most fun your gnna have when you get in trouble:

Outrunning the Planet Gaurdians...... that'll would be fun



....try adding new reasonable additions to the is future game

So this would be a MMO-FPS, right?

Count me out. I don't want any game that has online play as a fundamental requirement.

Mike

Originally posted by Tidus01
2) you get placed in a servers called PLANETS. let me explain: each server is a different planet on which you live on; these arent your normal servers. these servers include single player and multiplayer together. Sounds a lot like Galaxies (yuck) to me. And why on earth would I want to join a server somewhere to play a singleplayer game? A singleplayer game needs to be playable on one PC. Not everyone has an internet connection (especially a good one). Who would want to have to pay a monthly fee to play a singleplayer game? No one.

Originally posted by Tidus01
3) you start a new identity on a "planet" and u live and save your progress(only) in an appartment building where you have your own room which only you have access to Also sounds like Galaxies. Why not just save my singleplayer progress on my own harddrive? It is a hell of a lot easier and a hell of a lot cheaper.

Originally posted by Tidus01
4)As you travel thorugh different markets, you obtain market codes which when you enter in your appratrment you are able to buy, sell. trade items from within your appartment without having to travel all the way to the market itself Is it just me, or does this also sound like Galaxies? Uh, the Jedi Knight seris is a first person shooter. FPSers are not about selling and buying items and going to the market. They are about blowing stuff up, and fragging other players. Why would I buy a Jedi Knight FPS to go to some virtual market? You can already do that with Galaxies. The Jedi Knight series is not like Galaxies.

Originally posted by Tidus01
5)within the building perameters there is a massive garage for those who live in the building: each player is allowed to keep probably only one vehicle within the garage Why would I need a garage? If I had a vehicle in a FPS, I will be out using it. A FPS is not about a character's "down time". That would be boring as hell.

Originally posted by Tidus01
6) moving along, within the server/world there are various buildings, on of which is an Academy, presumingly for Jedis. This Academy is used for training. To explain: as your character progress mentally and physically they are able to gain new features towards themeselves such as
endurance: how welll you take damage, reflex: how well you react and block , etc. ; you are able to gain new force powers such as push, pull, grip,lightining, heal, etc. All of these features towards your character must be trained with within the Jedi Academy. Not going into too much detail, your character must train and live temporarily within the academy and train with others to excell his character in different areas. You really should try Galaxies.

Originally posted by Tidus01
7) Now you ask
" well...how how can i go to planet XYZ and talk to Joe Shmoe? " But I don't want to talk to Joe Shmoe. I want to blow Joe Shmoe up, because this is a Jedi Knight game and Jedi Knight games are FPSs. If I want to talk, I will play Galaxies or go on ICQ, or pick up the phone.

Originally posted by Tidus01
....to answer that, you go to a special place where starcrafts are held, you get into a planet transportation shuttle and it will take you to the planet of your choice. Hmmm. I wonder if Galaxies works like that?

Originally posted by Tidus01
8) the gameplay will be very similair to Jedi Acedmemy although one main new feature that will DEFINETLY be noticable. I call it - The Blocking Button -!!
in Jedi Academy you do not quite control defense....but within this game, blocking will be don automaticlly 10-20 percent of the time and manually blocking will have to be taken in mind when fighting; for in Jedi Acedmy/Outcast the game is very strongly based around runing around, moving away from an attack and then jumping towards the enemy with another attack (no defensive side to th game really).
No you ask - where can we fit the Block button to make the fighting comfortable? well, already thought of that. If youre using the mouse, and you probably are, then the block button would be the Middle mouse button. This has been talked about at length already. A block button is pointless. When a player is isn't attacking, they will want to be defending. So the entire time except when I take a swing, I have to hold down a button? What's the point? That is providing the exact same functionality that the auto-blocking does (defending when you are not attacking), except I have to hold down a stupid button all the time. That's a pain in the ass, isn't it?

Not only that, but for multiplayer, you have now introduced one more thing that will be affected by lag. Are you going to be happy when your head gets chopped off after you have pressed the block button? I didn't think so...

If you want increased saber defense, why not use the cvars to do so right now?

Originally posted by Tidus01
understand this is only a taste of whatcould be done to let star wars fans live thier star wars fantasy A bad taste IMO. My Star Wars fantasy is running around with my lightsaber and either chopping up stormtroopers with my lightsaber, or going online and chopping up other players with my lightsaber. I don't want leave my e-appartment to go to the e-market and buy e-muffins. If I did, I would be playing Galaxies, not Jedi Academy.

I didn't watch Star Wars as a kid and dream of going to Mos Eisley and buying e-sandwiches. I want action and combat, not chatting. When I want to play an RPG, I play an RPG, like KOTOR. Damn I'm glad I don't have to pay money to store my saved games for that on some server somewhere.

Originally posted by Tidus01
what if people decide to go a bit , lets just say, whack and start breaking the true experience?? You mean by chatting instead of fighting? You're right, that really does break the true experience. Probably a good idea to put in saveguards to prevent people from doing it.

Originally posted by Tidus01
the reason they could do alot of what they want is because just as they have committed a
" Planet Crime ", the Planet Gaurdians are right there after them. I propose that chatting instead of fighting is a Planet Crime. I also nominate myself as Planet Guardian!

Originally posted by Tidus01
depending on the crime, the player must pay in credits for what he has done...if he has no credits then he must give out a weapong/item equivelant to the price he mustpay or he is to be put in Prison (no joke...you will have to - wait - to play again.) And thus the game dies. Preventing people from playing is the absolute worst thing you could do. People payed good money for the game, and now they can't play it? People won't stand for that (me included). No one is going to stick around and wait to play again, they are going to go play something else.

And who decided what the "planet crimes" are? I do, because I am the Planet Guardian! What if I bust you for chatting, and put you in prison for 3 years? That's the law, and now you can't play the game you bought for 3 years. Happy aren't you? By the time you come back, everyone will be gone. I'm glad you got your money's worth. Whew, what a fun game!

Originally posted by Tidus01
so if your gonna lame or steal vehicles ..which you can do.....you will be fined or criminilized. And what is "laming?". It is ultimately a stupid concept in a FPS. Why killing someone in a FPS is "lame" is beyond me.

Originally posted by Tidus01
you can do a crime - make you have credits or items to get out of trouble. Wheeee, sounds like something I want to pay for!

Originally posted by Tidus01
....try adding new reasonable additions to the is future game Play Galaxies, and leave Jedi Knight games as a FPS.

Originally posted by txa1265
Count me out. Boy, you said it. :)

One requirement is that they call the next game:

Jedi Academy 2: Electric Boogaloo with Hulk Hogan doing voiceover for the baddie. "If you only knew the power of the dark side, BROTHER!!"

Originally posted by Prime
This has been talked about at length already. A block button is pointless. When a player is isn't attacking, they will want to be defending. So the entire time except when I take a swing, I have to hold down a button?I remember this from other discussions - and I remember that at the time I had played some of Jedi Power Battles on the GBA. That *has* a block button - and if you don't 'swing' properly to 'bat' away the blasts, a single battle droid will take Obi-Wan out in about 5 shots.

I didn't watch Star Wars as a kid and dream of going to Mos Eisley and buying e-sandwiches. That's the funniest thing I've read all month! :D

Mike

Add to the fact that you have to pay monthly to play on a server, it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth and i have too many bills as it is. That is the reason i don't play galazies or any other MMORPG. I get why they have to charge but i think 15-20 is a little excessive on top of what i pay monthly for my cable line. 50 bucks, one good 100+ hour FPS action RPG game played on my pc, not online, with star wars content, plus some of the good ideas = probably the best star wars game.

Originally posted by txa1265
That's the funniest thing I've read all month! :D You're too kind :)

Dude, I understand where you're coming from with the whole merging FPS and MMORPG stuff, but I really don't think it would work. Look at all the hit detection and other lag related problems academy had combat wise and you'll see what I mean. Besides, that's not immersive. When I talk about an immersive game I mean a game that make you feel like your really a character in a specific world who has the power to really affect people's lives. JK did that and so did JO for the most part, but JA fell short(and so did MOTS for you oldtimers out there :) ) but anyway. To make a game emersive you have to make it well structured, which most online games aren't. People just don't work the way they're expected to online and also there's no easy way to commicate and co ordinate efforts. Besides, nothing in multiplayer compares to the journey you had in say JO to defeat desann. I mean, he may have been a purple lizard, but they still made him a nasty villain you ENJOYED fighting. I just couldn't imagine the same experience in MP. It doesn't happen.
As for blocking in combat, I think blaster deflection should stay automatic, but saber blocking should be manual. The reality is in a real sword fight( or saber fight as it were) you interact with your opponent, parrying strikes, attacking yourself, making advances and retreats and so on. That interaction is something saber combat needs. There are some mod makers in JA trying put that in, but I hope the next JK game has it in the original game. That would be sweet. Not only that, but include hand to hand move(punches, kicks, trips) into the saber combat and that would be even sweeter. Maybe throw in some real stealth(ala thief) and you'd have an epic sp experience. Just my two cents on the subject. Debate more now! muahahahahaha!

I think that a new take on saber combat could be taken in the next game as well. I remember a while back when obi-wan was to be the next in the dark forces series, lucasarts was talking about a glyph system or something that moves would be determined by movement of the mouse. So let's say you moved in a low circular pattern clockwise, you would be able to parry a low saber attack, then while holding down a button, probably mouse 1, you would do an attack with the mouse depending on which way you moved it. I kind of see the mouse as an extension of the arms in terms of gameplay because the arms are the only part of the body that can move in a similar fashion just as the mouse does. Plus add to the fact that a mouse isn't as intuitive in JA, i use a game pad. But i think if implemented properly, like the flight in freelancer, i think the mouse could be pretty damn intuitive and could allow players to have the means to have those "movie" like duels.

I agree with Prime...a lot of those original ideas sound a lot like Galaxies (which I had to pass up because of my 56k modem & limited budget). Personally, I would LOVE a single player, semi-plot-driven pseudo-Galaxies that I could play offline, but that shouldn't be part of the JK series.

I've played every DF/JK game except MOTS, and here's my opinion of how the next JK should be:

1. Get an original plot. JA was fun, but I was disappointed when I found out that Tavion was the main bad guy...made it more worthy of an Outcast expansion pack to finish out that plot line. One of the main things that made DFII & Outcast great was the fact that they had different plots (even though the Valley of the Jedi did have a cameo appearance in Outcast).

2. Keep Kyle Katarn as the main character, but give the man a change of clothes, for crying out loud!! He's a jedi, not a bantha herder! In my opinion, he should either be wearing a jedi outfit, or some sort of fatigues/military outfit (he is ex-military, after all...).

3. Get rid of the Q3 engine...it was good while it lasted, but it just gets old after a while.

4. Expand on the vehicles. My favorite level in JA was the swoop bike level (but in my opinion, it was too short).

5. Use live-action cinematics. DFII had some great scinematics w/ good acting and great lines...but the cinematics in Outcast left a sour taste in my mouth, and while Academy had some good one-liners (You always sense a disturbance in the force...), I felt that it didn't quite measure up to DFII.

6. I liked the idea about automatic blaster-blocks & manual saber battles (the mouse control idea sounds neat).

7. Keep a greater variation in enemies. I thought DFII and Outcast did an excellent job at this...there were LOTS of stormtroopers who were easy to kill (I so enjoy massacring stormies), some who weren't so easy (rocket launcher, anyone?), some easier to medium saber enemies (reborn), and then the difficult enemies (dark jedi in DFII, Tavion & Desann in Outcast). I felt that there were too many saber-wielding enemies in Academy...it was an accomplishment to kill someone with a saber in DFII & Outcast, but I found myself thinking, "Gee, another reborn?" That's just my opinion, though

Anyway...those are my ideas. I'll admit, I spent too much time complaining about JA, but this was my second go-around...it was better the first time I wrote it, then my @&#$& computer froze and I had to retype it all...

Prime, you owe me $10 for using one of my lines :o

I would pay money for an MMFPS I have been wanting one for awile. I can't understand why they dont make one.

Originally posted by Prime
You're too kind :) Check the calendar ;)

Mike

lol...
Would be funny as hell if something like this was released and 'honourz' from JA was dragged into the game..
Fines for 'laming'? Haha, that is great :p

then we'd have to go all out tommy vercetti on them now wouldn't we?

Originally posted by Rumor
Prime, you owe me $10 for using one of my lines :o

You're one to talk.

Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet
I would pay money for an MMFPS I have been wanting one for awile. I can't understand why they dont make one. I thought Sony either had one or was putting one out ... but can't remember ...

I'm all for people enjoying MMO games of any type, and I'm all for genre-crossing games. I'm regularly connected to the internet through our wireless network at home, but I *still* abhor the idea of *having* to be connected to play a SP game.

(and, yes, if HL2 requires an *active* Internet connection to play SP mode - i.e. active to start the game each time, not just install it - then I will *not* be buying it)

Mike

What I am wondering is this... how many people want the next Jedi Knight game to NOT be a Jedi Knight game at all... but rather KOTOR with online play, or SW Galaxies without the monthly fee and everyone being a Jedi?

Frankly I think that the series would lose an awful lot if it were only about saber dueling and role playing being a Jedi.

'Nuff said.


Personally I'd love to see a "Dark Side" storyline for the single player campaign. For multiplayer, further development of the objective based modules (like Siege) with more maps, objectives, vehicles and team-options. I'm not asking for Battlefront or Republic Commando mind you, because this would involve Jedi and smaller scale battles (like Commando teams) and feature material outside the canon films (ie: not limited to the movie storylines).

As far as Obi-Wan was concerned, it was a cool idea (before it was stripped down and scaled back for the Xbox release it eventually became), but it really wasn't going to be part of the Jedi Knight series. The fact that it was in a different timeline and focused on a totally different character than Kyle or anyone involved with him, plus that it was going to be almost exclusively force-saber based (Obi-Wan being a low level Force user throughout the SP campaign), made it unworthy of the series IMHO, even though there were hints all along that this was going to be "thought of as the next Jedi game." The planned multiplayer aspect sounded very Jedi Knight like though, too bad it was axed.

What I am wondering is this... how many people want the next Jedi Knight game to NOT be a Jedi Knight game at all... but rather KOTOR with online play, or SW Galaxies without the monthly fee and everyone being a Jedi?
Personally, I think they should keep JK as a FPS. I've heard great things about KOTOR (don't have it yet, though), and maybe they could make a KOTOR-offshoot with MP, but they shouldn't use JK to do it.

As far as Galaxies goes, from what I understand, it's kind of its own animal...like I said before, I wouldn't mind a pseudo-Galaxies that those of us with slow internet and limited budgets could play as an SP game (and is everyone really a Jedi already? I heard that that would take a LONG time...), but once again, keep that as a Galaxies-offshoot.


JK should stay a FPS.

Personally, I would also like to see a dark side plot line developed...maybe for the next game you could be Kyle trying to search out and kill dark Jaden...or dark Jaden building a force to DESTROY THE JEDI ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!!
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!:evil3:

4 words:

Tidus go play galaxies.

Instead of dramatically converting the JK series from an FPS to a RPG, go modify Galaxies. It will save everyone (including you) a lot of hassle.

Jedi Knight + Doom 3 engine = the revolution

all you need.


Leave the MASTERFUL rpg elements to games like kotor and kotor 2 which are unbeatable in their fields.

Once JK makes its next engine step, particularily if its doom 3, developers will be forced to create the incredible animations and slower paced (even more movie like) saber battles that would make the series incredible.

Why?
Because the animation is quite sophisticated on engines like that, so much so, that lower frame animations look 'out of place' and obscure in the graphically rich environment.

Well of course this may digress slightly from the run and gun style much of Jediknight is inherent with. But after the engine matures (after quake 4), bringing the JK series to it while maintaining the fast action is certainly conceivable although far off (time wise).

first of all i would like to state what I imagined the new game to be ( at the very start of the forum) is not specific and could be changed.

seconly, i was recommended by you ppl to try GALAXIES. I have, i know what it is, but the gameplay isnt exactly what I imagined.

And when I said "planets/servers" by that i intended to explain something (sorry, forgot lol):

these seerver DO incluse single player. now read carefully:

a) when you are OFFLINE it is the exact same as ONLINE although you are not able to meet/talk and play with real players(obviously) but replacing the online players will be bots
and there will be missions/quests for SP and MP(becauase remember: SP is MP- except for the fact that bots(npc) will replace players if you are offline.

--------so for the people who are offline, YES, they are also able to play this game------------

and for the saying, " Go play galaxies!!,
i say that i do not want to for the combat is not the same as in JA (JK). And for those of you yelling out "i dont want an RPG!" well, this game is not really meant as an RPG in the way that you imagine. All you need to do to fight is just do some missions, get some money and get some items/weapons and go to a Dueling area of your city and from there ...its just like JA where you can play Power Duel, Duel, etc. without losing items /money/what not if you die (friendly duels). And for those who want to live a little more dangerously you just step outside your fortified city and from there it is a free for all world with - dinosaurs,vehicles, other creatures and your fellow players/bots.

so this game , I repeat, is not like galaxies. This game is VERY much like JA although it is in A MP/SP world, with detailed gameplay where you outfit your character and live in worlds where everything feels so much cooler.


so forthose non- rpgers, and i know ure out there everywhere, youll be able to play this game without worrying about rpging. all you need to do is get some stuff and ure set for the rest of the game.......unless you want to get better weapons/vehicles to whoop your friends.

oh...and one more thing:

about laming(killing people inside a city - outside city= okay)...well, i guessyour right about not letting you play when you are criminized. All you have to do I guess is pay money or items( or maybe you have another idea). And the intersting thing would be that if you do not want to pay then you will be chased down by planet guardians (police/npc) and you could fight them off, run from them. in fact, maybe you can even train to be a Planet Gaurdian...who knows.

Originally posted by rccar328
1. Get an original plot. JA was fun, but I was disappointed when I found out that Tavion was the main bad guy...made it more worthy of an Outcast expansion pack to finish out that plot line. One of the main things that made DFII & Outcast great was the fact that they had different plots (even though the Valley of the Jedi did have a cameo appearance in Outcast).Personally, I like the idea of having a consistent and extended plot over a series of games. It helps make the overall series feel more epic IMO.

Originally posted by rccar328
2. Keep Kyle Katarn as the main character, but give the man a change of clothes, for crying out loud!! He's a jedi, not a bantha herder! In my opinion, he should either be wearing a jedi outfit, or some sort of fatigues/military outfit (he is ex-military, after all...). I kind of liked the make-your-own-jedi thing, but if it is a DF game then I prefer that it would be about Kyle. Not only that, but you tend to get a better story when the character is predefined (especially one as well fleshed out as Kyle). The biggest complaint I've seen about him is comments from teenagers saying "OMFG Kyle is past puberty!1!! He is teh old!!"

Originally posted by rccar328
3. Get rid of the Q3 engine...it was good while it lasted, but it just gets old after a while. The next game will no doubt be on a new engine, so no worries :)

Originally posted by rccar328
4. Expand on the vehicles. My favorite level in JA was the swoop bike level (but in my opinion, it was too short). I agree. The vehicles have a lot of potential.

Originally posted by rccar328
6. I liked the idea about automatic blaster-blocks & manual saber battles (the mouse control idea sounds neat). As long as the manual blocking for sabers doesn't involve constantly holding down a button, I'll be happy :)

Originally posted by rccar328
7. Keep a greater variation in enemies. I thought DFII and Outcast did an excellent job at this...there were LOTS of stormtroopers who were easy to kill (I so enjoy massacring stormies), some who weren't so easy (rocket launcher, anyone?), some easier to medium saber enemies (reborn), and then the difficult enemies (dark jedi in DFII, Tavion & Desann in Outcast). I felt that there were too many saber-wielding enemies in Academy...it was an accomplishment to kill someone with a saber in DFII & Outcast, but I found myself thinking, "Gee, another reborn?" That's just my opinion, though That's true. But at the same time, I like the idea of the Reborn in the sense of having more than a few saber battles. You are right that it shouldn't be overdone.

Originally posted by Rumor
Prime, you owe me $10 for using one of my lines Really? Sorry, man. You must be rubbing off on me. The check is in the mail...

Originally posted by txa1265
Check the calendar Doh! :D

Originally posted by Kurgan
Frankly I think that the series would lose an awful lot if it were only about saber dueling and role playing being a Jedi.

'Nuff said. Yep. JK is about both sabers and guns.

Originally posted by rccar328
JK should stay a FPS. So true. Let other games tackle other genres. Not to say it can't incorporate other elements, but I want JK to remain at heart a FPS.

Originally posted by Tidus01
a) when you are OFFLINE it is the exact same as ONLINE although you are not able to meet/talk and play with real players(obviously) but replacing the online players will be bots
and there will be missions/quests for SP and MP(becauase remember: SP is MP- except for the fact that bots(npc) will replace players if you are offline.
But this won't work. To have a SP story you need the opponants controlled so that they act according to the story, and that the events fit in with the story. This is simply impossible with player controlled opponants. Players are going to play they way they want to play. If they can't, they simply won't play at all. How do you propose to get players to perform the same actions as the SP AI?

In order to have a satisfying SP and MP experience, they really need to be seperate. If you don't, you have to start making compromises. Either you have a co-op thing where players are all on the same side, or you have players on opposing sides with no story (or an indepth one anyway). Once you have players on opposite sides, you will end up with something like Seige. How do you progress a story with something like that? How players follow their own path without ruining other players' storylines? When one player goes to by weapons, how is the story more immersive when the seller says, "I m teh uber guy!1 Buy my 1EE7 gunz so u can lame hte noobs!"

Originally posted by Tidus01
And for those of you yelling out "i dont want an RPG!" well, this game is not really meant as an RPG in the way that you imagine. All you need to do to fight is just do some missions, get some money and get some items/weapons and go to a Dueling area of your city and from there Do some quests. Check
Gather gold/money. Check
Gather items/weapons. Check

Sounds like an RPG to me.

Originally posted by Tidus01
and from there it is a free for all world with - dinosaurs I love Star Wars dinosaurs! I'll call the big one Stampy!!

Originally posted by Tidus01
This game is VERY much like JA although it is in A MP/SP world, with detailed gameplay where you outfit your character and live in worlds where everything feels so much cooler.

so this game , I repeat, is not like galaxies. I repeat, it is just like Galaxies. Apart from the combat system, how is it different? And a FPS combat system won't really work (apart from the lag issues) because people die constantly in FPSs. Would you have to start from scratch every time you die? Boring (and frustrating). Would fights be so that you never die? Boring.

Originally posted by Tidus01
so forthose non- rpgers, and i know ure out there everywhere, youll be able to play this game without worrying about rpging. all you need to do is get some stuff and ure set for the rest of the game.......unless you want to get better weapons/vehicles to whoop your friends. You're saying I would need to do some quests, gather some money, gather some items, and gather some weapons. And to survive I would have to keep doing this to get better weapons and vehicles.

So I have to RPG to be able to not worry about RPGing.

And how would I be set for the rest of the game? Either I get killed and have to do it all over again, or I can never die and thus am bored out of my skull. And how does the singleplayer story fit into all this again? How do I deal with progressively more difficult enemies and bosses? There are more difficult enemies and bosses, right?

Originally posted by Tidus01
about laming(killing people inside a city - outside city= okay)...well...All you have to do I guess is pay money or items So I have to RPG.

Originally posted by Tidus01
( or maybe you have another idea) How about get rid of the concept of "laming?"

Holy **** what a long post...

When Im talking about saber fighting and being able to control blocking Im thinking of a parry button you hit right before the attack falls. It would be a timing thing. As for offense I think that the red style needs to have faster strikes with a long time between attacks. Its silly how you look like you're swinging a sledge hammer in Red stance. Overall the animation speed of the saber moves would probably have to be slowed down to make it look a little more natural and let actual swordfighting take place.
As for having RPG elements in the next JK I think a morality scale like the one in KOTOR or the one in the original JK game would go a long way to making people feel like their actions really affect things in a much bigger sense. You should not be able to kill civilians or strike down a helpless enemy and not pay the consequences for it. But throwing in money and equipment buying and quests? That I don't like so much. I mean, your usually in unfriendly territory anyway so why include a feature you rarely use? Also I definetely agree vehicles need to included. I'd love to fly an Xwing or maybe the Raven's claw against some tie fighters. That kind of combat would just add to the level of immersion the game could have.

MAbey make it kinda like MW4 mercs in mission selection? Be able to choose sevral pathes, and get paid by the people that hire you, buy new wepons ect. that would own.

This game, while maybe not as bad an idea as some here have made it sound, doesn't appeal to me either. I'd like to see a merger between styles of SP games sometime in the future - but you can't try to mix SP and MP and get it to work very well. That's why they're separate games in the Jedi Knight series. This also doesn't sound like a JK-type game to me. What makes these games great (besides the storylines) is the way they play - FPS action games. ou can't get great storylines in MP and you can't get great ppl interaction w/real persons in SP. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

Oh - and JediLiberator, that block stuff you're talking about. Have you been paying attention to OJP recently? B/c it's exactly what you're talking about, dude...

What I'm saying is, maybe people don't really want JK4, they want Galaxies: Free Jedi Edition or KOTOR 2: Online Edition.

Those games seem closer to what they want in terms of gameplay and atmosphere/immersion.

Master_Keralys, yea that's what OJP is doing, but their putting in a bunch of other stuff that I think is unecessary. Also I don't like it when a game requires mods like that to make it good. If the next JK game can't stand on its own two feet then I won't even buy it. If they even make that is. I was so mad after beating JA SP, it was SO pathetic. But that's another matter.
For the next game I want to really have some interactive saber fighting, throw in some space fighter combat(ala Rogue Squadron or starfighter), and a good storyline to back it up. Oh and like I said earlier, bring back the old JK morality scale for some RPG element.

What new stuff do you want to be there in JK4?

Here's my list-

More realistic gameplay
Levels to be less linear and console-type
A more bouncy and fun saber
Less enemy comparison (stormtrooper is too weak, rockettrooper is too strong etc.)
Less dual/staff opponents (how many such guys have you seen in the movies?)
A more definite way of conversion
Various sub-missions and sub-objectives
Lots more models, skins, vehicles and levels
New saber colours
A saber-type slider (to fine-tune your saber)
Side indicator (the force colour in the lower-right corner turns reddish if you are turning to the dark side)
A more realistic Force Sense
More importance to weapons
Lots more cool saber moves
Ability to change clothes (Can't Jedi have any fashion statement??")
Overtime change in looks (Faces broadens, moustaches/beard grows etc.)
5-10 Tiers
A better way to improve force powers
Bonus missions
Bonus stuff (like movies, music, BTS etc.)
Better menu
and lots, lots more....!

Well there might not even be a JK4. Maybe for the next few i dont know how long....

Even if there is, i want better graphics better than the old jk2 one.

As long as it uses the newest Quake based engine at the time. (If it even goes with Q)

I'd rather see JK3 first. ;)

Originally posted by GothiX
I'd rather see JK3 first. ;)

Huh? You mean all this time you dont even have jk3/JA?

geo modding man, geo modding!!!

1. No NJO.

2. No NJO.

3. More Cowbell. I mean, more Concussion Rifle.

4. Better hidden areas. I don't want health packs, dammit. Give me some dancing droids and Max again!

a new engine
more customisation, i.e more species, faces, clothes, sabers etc.
as rhett said, no NJO crap
more RPG type of stuff, e.g. like XP points
longer missions
more movie-like saber duels

I'd like a longer development time so you get the feeling they are really working on something massive. They did IMHO a great job in limited time for JO and JA, I'd love to see what Raven could come up with given like two, two and a half full years.

No use about Raven giving what people wanted. When it was heard that staff and dual sabers would be avaliable in JK3, it was awaited with much anticipation. But nowadays, people are complaining about them, saying they're not 'balanced'. They even term the staff 'noobstick'. The less new things there are, the better. People will just find more things to whine about. My suggestion is, make the old things better.

I'd hope the make better AI, cause they are kinda dumb. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by |GG|Crow_Nest
Huh? You mean all this time you dont even have jk3/JA? He probably has JA, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't have JK3...

More character customization definitely, loads more levels, lots more NPC's, maybe more weapons and a customizable name. And more vehicles would be nice.

I have to agree with Rhett on the dancing droids and Max! I also think that some elements from JK and MOTS should be tossed in: civilians running around in the cities etc. AI also needs to be improved and I would also like to see more movie like duels..But thats just me...

Look at the cover of jka, do you recognise a certain symbol??

Anyhoo, in jk3, I'd like a longer game (jk lasted for ages!),
geo-modding,
better physics,
more concentration on MP aspects (there were a lot of things that could have been added. I believe nasty people from Activision and LEC (whatever) made them rush it),
More advanced saber combos,
Better storyline,
Better characters and development (dessann and tavion are kinda weak),
more interesting levels,
more thought invloved,
cutscenes... better ones. A reward,
better darkside/temptation elements (bad force powers = darkside etc.)
BIGGER levels,
A big replayability factor (make the game remember that it has been played, different levels and characters... a lot of work but I'm positive it would make it a way better game and more replayability. Maybe RPGish so that it calculates which story branch to take depending on your behaviour and saber skills.
Lots of variety,
more realistic AI etc.
There's much more and more important but I'd like to keep those ideas to mehself ;),
More NPCs,
improved weapons.

I think JA's a great game but these would make the ultimate jk game imo :)

Actually, I think I'd settle for an engine where they really, really got the saber combat to film esque standards. Don't get me wrong, its good now, but if tactics came into play a lot more it would be great. It still has a little of a Q3, slightly random feel to it, good as it is, and you rarely see two people going toe to toe for 5 minutes ducking and sidestepping and such, ala the films.

In essence, I'd like a bit of a departure from current FPS standards rather than another FPS that happens to have the saber, which is how JA felt to me a little. It's good, but Raven can do better.

Totally off topic but LEC better not have cancelled Sam and Max 2...

Originally posted by Prime
He probably has JA, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't have JK3... What do you mean? jedi knight 3 and jedi Acadamy are the same thing?:D

No, JK:JA and JK3 are not one in the same, according to Raven Software and LucasArts. However, from an article I read back when JA was first announced, they did say that although they really did push the Quake3 Engine to its very max, they knew that JA would be the last of the Jedi Knight games to use the Q3TA Engine.

For me, I would love more of a Jedi-Space based missions, like in the Clone Wars Episode where Anakin led a space assault. And I wouldn't mind a MMORPG-like game where different jedi could explore the universe and meet up every now and then, isntead of being stuck on teh same mission together, so it would be liek Co-op online, but then not.

In fact, I wouldnt mind a prequel Jedi Knight game that takes place before DF. To have you be a jedi that finds out about the death star plans and relay the information to Mon Mothma who then hires Kyle Katarn. Definitely would be cool to see Kyle Katarn at some kind of meeting that takes place right when he launches to the Secret Base in Dark Forces:) The possibilities are endless. :)

But for me, I'd prefer to see enhanced graphics, more animations, and features like NPCs in maps, and tie in more movie-material into the games, like more characters and familiar settings from the OT. maybe tie in both post episode 3 stuff with the original trilogy.:)

I know this is purely wishlist material, so I'm not going to let a little thing like 'realism' hold me back.

Like other people have mentioned, I'd like better graphics. The graphics in JA are better than JO's, but still not nearly as beautiful as a good many games out there. Halo, Metroid Prime, Homeworld II, now there's some excellent graphics. I think Raven could go all out and make some truly stunning graphics, especially in the backgrounds. The backgrounds were the most dissapointing graphical aspect of JA, in my opinion at least.

Courscant in JA looked pretty bland. I mean, in the movies, and even in a several fan made maps for JO, Courscant was a pretty spiffy looking place. Futureistic, yet gothic looking buildings. Floating holograms everywhere. Animated billboards and building signs. You could do a lot with a place like that. Even just compared to the Courscant maps for JO, the official JA Courscant maps just didn't look impressive at all.

I'd also like to see larger, less linear areas. Like, make some places that are difficult to get to that could lead to completely different goals that could end the mission and unlock bonus items (movies, a soundtrack option, an image gallery, things like that) or bonus missions. Perhaps a mission tree that takes you on different paths depending on how you complete various levels.

I like how you gain powers with experience in the JK games, it would be nice to see that idea developed. How you complete a mission limits or expands your options when adding powers to your character.

A larger variety of options as far as species and the look of your character in single player would be nice. I'd also prefere, instead of the same human sounding voices no matter what species you took, if when you picked a Rodian for example, your character would speak the rodian language, and all the text would be subtitled, just like in the movies.

More ease of modding, like making it easier to load and unload vehicles so the game doesn't crash if there's too many vehicles in your base directory. Then you have to go searching for vehicle models and move them to another directory.

Same with character models for multiplayer. I hate having so many character models that it makes many unselectable from the model select screen. I don't understand why there's not a way to make it so all your character models are selectable in a scrolling screen. It seemed like this was the case in JA, but I still find models kicking others off the screen, even though there's black spaces available.

I agree there should be less Jedi/Sith with dual sabers, and two sabers, and though they should be more powerful than a Jedi with a single bladed saber in SP, I think the playing field should be evened out in MP...that or give the admins the ability to dole out dual sabers, and dual bladed sabers as they see fit, without everyone being to pick one the moment they log on. I don't think either way is a perfect fix, but just some ideas.

Like someone already mentioned, civilians running around again would be great, as would whether or not you kill them, or how you kill enemies (such as attacking from behind as opposed to fighting fairly, or sneaking past enemies as opposed to killing them when you don't really have to) would be an interesting twist on the developement of your character. Make the decision between light and dark more of a drawn out affair instead of a single choice at a key moment in the game (like "kill Rosh and go dark side, or show mercy and stay light side"), even at times making it unclear as to which side you'd be going down with certain choices.

Like someone else said, and I kinda said with less linear levels, have multiple mission objectives, and more puzzle solving around those mission objects. Again, how you solve these objectives could determine how your character developes and along which side (light or dark).

I think as you travel more down one side or the other, the missions should change to reflect that. You'll be able to choose to go against what your superiors tell you and take on different missions, or have alternate objectives.

I also think it would be great if the storyline broke away from Kyle Katarn, Luke, and the rest of the post-OT stories, and possibly went to the prequel age, or maybe before that. Taking place in the times of the Old Republic, with the Jedi Council, the Senate, possibly during the Clone Wars. Regardless of how many feel about the prequel movies, I think the times and events of those time periods would make for a very fresh and interesting JK game.

It would be nifty if you started the game as a padawan under another Jedi, then later went out on your own, and towards the end of the game get a padawan of your own to train, depending on how you progress through the story.

Like others have mentioned, multiplayer could be expanded in some great ways. Co-op levels, much like seige mode but more like SP but with multiple characters on the same, or opposing teams, not limited to the models specific to certain roles as in Seige mode. Of course, more seige mode fun is always welcome as well. I'm just thinking mini-campaigns for multiple Jedi would be great. Or Sith, too, have levels from different prespectives. This would be even easier to implement in a game set in the Old Republic and could help to drive a more interesting story, as in you don't know if yout superiors are good or evil until a good partion of the way through the game. Taking missions from both the Jedi Council, and the Senate, and having the option to do your own thing on the side. Choosing between these types of missions, of course, affecting the outcome of the game and along wich side your character developes.

I'd also like it if fighting in MP was more skill oriented, than the dumbed down combat from JA. As in if someone is just running at you hitting the 'swing saber' button, or limited to one or two movies, then they should be open to better timed, and more strategic attacks. I'd also like it if such moves were not limited by your force bar. Does it really take that much force energy do do anything beyond swinging your saber around like a twit? At least have such moves take away far less force power, that way a longer battle could wear on both opponents, which would be nifty, but a shorter battle wouldn't really hamper or limit them much.

I'd also like to see a death tracker built into the actual game, so that people with tons of cheap kills, but who have died just as many, if not more times themselves, can't sit there and gloat over people who don't have as high a body count, but who also haven't been killed themselves. Perhaps make it a server option to delay respawning as well, to make getting killed that much more undesireable.

Better AI in SP (and in that MP mission idea) would be welcomed, and help with things like interacting with neutral characters and using alternate means to get past enemies instead of trying to hack up every enemy in a given level. Using mind trick to send some guards running down a hall, or even just looking away long enough for you to sneak past.

Another idea, make using either the guns or sabers have an effect on the game. Not neccesarily a saber use=good, gun use=bad effect, but in SP if you use the guns more, you get better with them and weaker with the saber, where as if you use the saber more, you get much better with that.

Of course, instead of monitoring what weapons/forcepowers/etcetera are used more, you could also go the Theif/System Shock route and have the player just put points into skills. I think Raven should look at those games for some great ideas outside of standard FPS combat.

I think I should add that I believe the combat should remain true to it's roots. The JK games are, after all FPS games, and that should stay the same. Still, there's a difference between expanding on the genre, and being a cookie cutter clone of hundreds of other FPS games, and I'd like Raven to keep that distinction in mind.

Another idea, conversation trees! Developing the story through alternate dialogue. If you act like a good two-shoes, perhaps you don't find out till late in the game that your master is a Sith lord, while if you're brash and unconventional, you find out sooner and can choose between fighting or reporting him then, or joining him. Alternately, if you choose at that point to join him, you can either keep it a secret, or tell another Jedi and wind up being a sort of double agent, keeping tabs on your master until he finds out later on.

Finally, though I may have mentioned it already, rewards for completing tasks and objectives. Cinema scenes, soundtrack options, more saber hilts/models/gaining another weapon/gaining skills, things to make it worth going the extra mile to find secrets and beat the game in ways other than simple hack and slash, and rewards for showing superior skill.

I'm certain I could think of many other ideas if I just sat around and thought about it, but that's enough for now. What do you guys think?

Here's how the RPG thing will work - (to my mind)

Remember the mission overview shown after every mission? That data can be used to analyze what sort of Jedi you are. In JK:JA, your core powers advanced with the tier you are playing in (t1=1 force, t2=2 force) etc. But ink JK4, it should be based on your gameplay. If you are a person who jumps a lot, your Force Jump will increase faster. If you go fast, your Force Speed incrases and so on. That really seems Jedi-ish, otherwise, you add a point, and you learned so-and-so power. Gr8!

The character will also have statistics like Attack, Defense, Agility etc. These will increase depending on how you battle and move. There should also be one statistic named "Wisdom". This makes you wiser and more effective with your saber and force. You obtain wisdom by analyzing the style you battle, the choices you make, the sabers and weapons you choose etc.

The conversion is also automatic. In JK: JA, you can learn all Light side abilities and turn to the dark side. Sounds pointless. In JK4, the computer will choose your side depending on Wisdom.

Wisdom will be of to types. Minus wisdom (dark side) and Plus wisdom (Light side). After every mission, you're wisdom is calculated. Suppose in one mission you get +35 Wisdom and in the other, you get -50 Wisdom (Bad, bad Jedi!:D ) then you have -15 Wisdom. In other words, you are a bit on the dark side. At the time of conversion, this wisdom is taken in mind and your character converts or stays.

Rest should be like a normal RPG, like Deus Ex or something.
It should also be based on the Unreal Engine, Q3 engine always reminds me of broken trains...