Originally posted by Jubatus
Your beliefs and statements of oppinion offend me, yet I do not threaten you with banishment.



I hope you can see what I want to point out here. Look closely.

Yeah but you called him names ITS AGAINST THE RULES!!!:mad:

Originally posted by Thrackan Solo
Yeah but you called him names ITS AGAINST THE RULES!!!:mad:

The rules are flawed.

EDIT: Actually I need to rephrase that. My flaw in my statement of oppinion on Christianity was referring said oppinion to participants of the thread. I let my emotions towards socalled Christians lead me astray, not from my oppinion of course, but in the writing of them.

Stop it, you two.

Any bickering from here on will be deleted at first sight.


Before writing anything, take a deep breath and think of the kittens.

:)

Mmmmm...kittens...

I'm hungry. Must go eat. Mmmm... :)

Originally posted by Thrackan Solo

America is a christian dominated country and we allow people of other religions to live here and practice there beliefs.

But In Muslim countries, christians are persecuted and killed for spreading there beliefs so dont say that we are closeminded religion. [/B]

the thread is about christians .. otherwise i would have mentioned these muslimic-folks too.

The most problem with the most religions is .. they dont let their people have an own mind and opinion. nearly everything is given.

the role of the woman in most religions is .. let's just far behind time. So does the role of the man too.

Knowledge and science.. these are things which hardly fits to 'religious concerns'

so i dont have to speak about a special religion .. i just have to count on things like we have the year 2003 guys.. there are things going on in this world.. and the only thing you mind to do is to disturb our parlament with shouting "read the bible", "being gay is sin" (the major of berlin is gay.) "be shameful"



:confused: Err? Hello?

Okay... per C'Jais' warning, all of the meaningless, off-topic bickering that masquaraded as posts to this thread have been vanquished.

The topic is, "Why is it okay to bash Christians?"

A very touchy subject to discuss without loosing some semblance of reason and seriousness, so from this post on, try to validate your thoughts and feelings rather than simply tossing them in.

Cite some reference that someone of the opposing viewpoint can rebute or attempt to respond to.

Sadly, I dont think people are mature enough to discuss this like gentlemen(women). Too many people try to take the moral highground and look down their noses at those who dont agree.

I think there are a few reasons why more people bash christianity here.

I think the big thing is that Christians (more specifically, the Catholic church) have a flat out horrible track record. More awful things have been done in the name of god than you can shake a stick at.

This is really the case with most major religions. But Christianity is the major religion of most highly established countrys, of which most of the members here are part of. It tends to get shoved in a lot of peoples faces, and they begin questioning it. They look at it's history, and off it goes....

A lot of christians here get "bashing" confused with "discussing and questioning." I've seen countless people, both on and off the boards, ask for various changes in things because it "offends" them, often on religious basis. I sometimes wonder how seeing something you dont agree with is offensive, but thats a different thread.

But when someone questions your religion, I dont think they're bashing it. Just questioning it.

I agree Shock, on most cases, it is just simply quesitoning it. But it is not quesitoning it when We get called naive and weak. =)

No, not at all. That is bashing, and uncalled for.

There are valid reasons why many now oppose christianity. To state one faction. The satanic Church. Many christians will have you believe we worship Satan, when if you do your studies (as opposed to just listening to a preacher) you will find that we do not. My point being, many people see the contridictions in christianity. We have entered a digital age, which has brought us so much closer together. And because of that, many people are deciding for themselves what to believe. The difference between satanists and christians are as so. Christians purely state that you should deny any earthly pleasures. Yet while doing that, you deny what makes you human. That is what many of us see as flawed with christianity. Which is why many people have left the faith. Not to mention the christians stand on gender and Homosexuality. One last thing, I believe it has become "cool" to bash chrisitans these days. Almost a trend. And that's truely sad. With so many people attacking them, it must be hard for them to worship their god in peace. As a person with completely opposite beliefs than christians, I can state so many flaws in their books and beliefs. But, in doing that, I would be widening the gap between satanists and christians further. I can personally say that I have met very few actual satanists that go out of their way to oppose chrisitans. In closing, this fad of christian bashing will pass in time.

im catholic, a christion denomination, and we are not taught that other religions are the wrong ones, we are taught to beleive that we all warship the same god, with different ways. im not a strict catholic, havent gone to church in a long time, but i go to a catholic school. as for not hving simple pleasures that is not true, i can do whatever, and rthey dont say if you do this you wil go to hell!!!! booga booga, thata mainly the born agains who arnt alloud to drink and stuff, not all christians.

Originally posted by daring dueler
im catholic, a christion denomination, and we are not taught that other religions are the wrong ones, we are taught to beleive that we all warship the same god, with different ways. im not a strict catholic, havent gone to church in a long time, but i go to a catholic school. as for not hving simple pleasures that is not true, i can do whatever, and rthey dont say if you do this you wil go to hell!!!! booga booga, thata mainly the born agains who arnt alloud to drink and stuff, not all christians.

Agrred

Answering to the topic. It's not OK. I don't think it's ok to bash any religion, no matter what it is.

Why is it OK to bash Christianity?

Because it offers a definite truth about existence that constitutes a barrier in front of intellectual insight and enlightenment. That is my basic beef with Christianity.

As for the vast millions of hypocrites calling themselves Christians, that's quite a different matter....

Wisdom really ought to be a highly contagious disease.

It is ok to bash Christianity because it has no compassion to pregnant women, and homosexuals among other people.

As for the vast millions of hypocrites calling themselves Christians, that's quite a different matter....

*sigh* Some people just dont know when to keep their mouths shut.... :disaprove

ok i may not be a mod but this is getting out of hand. no more bickering. this is a debate forum, so debate. don't argue.

Originally posted by Jubatus
As for the vast millions of hypocrites calling themselves Christians, that's quite a different matter....

You must understand that it is my oppinion that hypocritical Christians are a serious crime to mankind, the crime being in essence that of serving as a barrier in front of intellectual progress, and I wrote it as such. In this post, from where the quote is taken, I did not use unnecessary namecalling. Hypocrisy is the word that covers my view on many selfnamed Christians; your antagony against it resembles the antagonism many have against the word ignorance. And that was not written as some hidden insult (even more not so in that I do not regard ignorance as an insult, merely a description of an observation), just an observation sprang to mind.

So please, cease the unnecessary spamming as it is against the rules of the Senate. An honest and sincere request. Allow the debate to continue beyond this hurdle.

[edited my own post for the greater good of the debate...]

well dudes,

I have this to say:-

Christian bashing as such is wrong, its is wrong to bash anyone for holding a certain point of view even if they are wrong, however it would appear that it is viewed by some that it is wrong to question the word of the lord.

Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but is it not right that we question that which is given as being unshakably true? We would still be living on a flat earth if so. If something is truly righteous then surely it can withstand scrutiny at every level and indeed scrutiny should re-enforce it's righteousness and hence be encouraged?

To state that the lord's word is correct without questioning is foolhardy in my view. The problem is that the written word of the bible has time and time again been proven wrong, contradictory and in turn entirely hypocritical.

I've at first hand witnessed this hypocrisy and have seen proof with my own eyes that rock to the very core of the bible, yet to question the very word of god is wrong? Perhaps it is if you are a christian whose faith is based on following the word of god without questioning it. For the rest of us questioning god is and always will be fair game for as long as the christian faith imposes cultural and moral obligations that may or may not be righteous or indeed just.

The title of this thread spoke to me when I read it, because in the past I have thought of posting this same thread, but I chose not to because I knew the kinds of things that would be said.....much of it has already been said I see.

I do not understand why discrimination against religous people is considered okay in a society where discrimination is so forcefully looked down upon. I understand that being religious is a choice, I can choose to be Christian, whereas a given race is not a choice, and homosexuality is not a choice. But it is STILL discrimination against a certain group of peoples who have not necissarily done anything wrong.

Accusing christians of being evil based on acts carried out by christians in the name of God is akin to ME deciding that ALL Middle Easterners are Vile and Evil because Osama Bin Laden had airplanes flown into our World Trade Towers.

Also, attacking a person for making this choice strikes me as arrogance. You have to assume that you must of course be smarter than all of them, because they chose this and you did not. But in the case of religion, there is no way on knowing. All current evidence we have, of course, is that there very well could be no God. We have no proof of God. But we have no proof of NO God either. Therefore, your opinion is JUST as valid as ours. But that makes our opinoin just as valid as yours.

So perhaps it would be in the best interests of everyone here if all such hositilities were ended, all the Christians here can forgive everyone who has personally insulted us, all those who insulted us can appologize, and everyone else can just sit around and watch to see what kind of reaction my suggestion will cause :p;)

First of all ET (or do you prefer the shortened Muad? ;)), you have to realize that a f*ckwit is still a f*ckwit, religious backing or not. To put it bluntly.

I don't care if someone believes that there's a God that cares deeply about homosexuality being regarded as "unnatural", unfit, weird or plain wrong - they're not one bit better than those who think racial differences are bad and the aryan race superior, but they still respect each and every black person for the one he is.

He's not. There's always this underlying prejudice, even if the person loudly proclaims that "he hates the colour, but loves the person". Same thing with homosexuals. It just doesn't work, and I don't care if said person is religious or not - he's being respectless to that person's nature, something he's just not in control of. Again, same thing if someone respected you "as a person", but neatly looked down on your love for your dog or girlfriend.

Same thing with the inexcusable "creation" mumbo jumbo - I don't care if you have a 2000 year old fairy tale that says otherwise - you better start dishing up some real facts and tested theories or I'm not gonna take you seriously at all.

And all this goes double for when someone tries hard to implement his jingoist, racist viewpoints in the law. Again, religious backing or not. That the church has such unwavering, blind support from many people allows it to do many of these things, and that's not even digging into how the organizations bully its members mentally into submission.

Sorry, looks like I flied off the handle there again - it's mostly a problem of empathy. Empathy is the ability to see another's viewpoint, as if you were in his shoes. Something which religious people are notoriously incompetent at. The problem is that Christians have a hard time understanding that their neighbors might not want to become Christians themselves and don't care about their rantings. They can't comprehend that other people might not be very interested in seeing impartial laws changed to suit their bias.

Then, we have the die-hard atheist, who have a tendency to look down on Christians for following an organization with a core of "logic" different from their own. They can't imagine believing in a god, and sometimes have this nasty habit of yelling God's apparent inexistence in their face, when they're unaware that these people *need* their beliefs, just as these atheist unwittingly need the belief that they somehow matter as well. I am of the *belief* that we all have beliefs that makes us important to ourselves - for Christians, this has been expanded to include God, but it' still the fundamentally same. Some atheists think their faith in themself and themself alone makes them morally superior to Christians, and for this they should be spanked. I find the Christian ideals of sacrifice for Christ and realizing of one's own imperfection fascinating, yet their idea of salvation through Christ alone is less sympathetic to me (though I can understand it well enough).

Empathy, my friends.

Yes, I'm aware of my own prejudice, sweeping generalizations and somewhat superior attitude - but I have this here online personality test that says I'm bad at practicing what I preach ;)

Originally posted by C'jais
First of all ET (or do you prefer the shortened Muad? ;)),

You will refer to me as The Kwisatz Haderach, b**** ;) J/K

You can call me ET or Muad if you want. I probably won't keep this name for TOO long, but who knows. I kind of like it..hmmm.

*edit-almost forgot the whole point of my post*

I understand that being an idiot is not justified if you are a christian as well, I'm just saying I dont like the way that it is acceptable to discriminate against christians as a group, or even to judge us as a group.

True, afterall, christians are each different. With individual views on even their own religion.

*edit* I am personally not a christian, but that is indeed a worth while comment to make. Too many people bunch christians together, and that's as bad as saying all germans are nazi's, or that all african americans are thugs.

Not even all Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin, myself included. The reason most do is because a few (and I do mean a few...in fact only one comes to mind at the moment) verses forbid it, and there is much argument on whether those verses were translated properly in the original English version (which most other countries have used as a basis rather than the original Greek and Hebrew). A simple online search will show you what I'm talking about. I must decline to post a better explanation myself at the moment, because I'm far too tired. (not to mention that it's getting a bit off topic :D)

Note: This doesn't apply to Catholicism, because if you're a 'true' Catholic, you must believe homosexuality is a sin, because the Pope said so. :dozey:

I believe it is fine to bash anything, but not anyone...and it's better to be careful what you say, if you want to be kind.

Note: This doesn't apply to Catholicism, because if you're a 'true' Catholic, you must believe homosexuality is a sin, because the Pope said so.

I'm Catholic, and I don't believe that. I believe that its not a sin if you decide to have a different life style, as long as it isn't hurting anyone else.

Originally posted by ET Warrior
We have no proof of God. But we have no proof of NO God either. Therefore, your opinion is JUST as valid as ours.

I have to address this argument now, it's been used too many times to be merely amusing anymore. Asking people that they have to disprove something that hasn't been proved, nor even observed, is absurd, and to use the argument that there is no proof of the nonexistence of something not proved, nor even observed, is equally absurd.

We cannot disprove God because by design he cannot be disproved, and by that same design he can only be proved if he wishes it so. But to accept the inability to disprove something not proved as proof of its validity is futile folly. All you can have for God is faith.

The Universe resides inside a purple peanut governed by the sevenlegged ant, Woonawoona Wantagi....I can't prove it, but prove me wrong. That oppinion is just as valid as that of God.

EDIT: Corrections.

And it just may well be, we'll never know. But will I call you naive and stupid for believing in the purple peanut? No. I will allow you to believe it because it is what you wish to do, and I will be a nice guy and just let you have your beliefs so long as you aren't actually harming anyone.





And for the record, I know you were being sarcastic.

Originally posted by ET Warrior
...and just let you have your beliefs so long as you aren't actually harming anyone.

But that's exactly the point I'm trying to get across here; these beliefs are harmful, because they keep mankind delusionally persistent about the justification of its continued existence. These beliefs are obstructions against any further evolving of insight. They say "So it is, let us question nothing beyond their boundaries." What they represent, the submission to ignorance through subconscious fear, is the uttermost crime against mankind.

mankind delusionally persistent about the justification of its continued existence.

So you are saying that mankind does NOT deserve to exist?

Originally posted by ET Warrior
So you are saying that mankind does NOT deserve to exist?

Deserving does not apply here.

Perhaps you could actually explain what you mean by that, or at least explain the quote of yours I have in my post above.

Originally posted by ET Warrior
Perhaps you could actually explain what you mean by that, or at least explain the quote of yours I have in my post above.

Suffice to say that the notion of mankind deserving its existence is either indicating that we must answer to some higher authority or purely subjective to oppinion.

As for your quotation of me in your former post, I will ask you to justify pain. I'm not talking about everyday disappointments like 'Dang, I didn't get that job I wanted' or 'Aww, my dog died'; I'm talking about the many millions through history that have experienced despair, hunger, disease, torture of body and mind, persecution, terror and profound loss.

What I was saying with that quote is that Christianity, though merely a symptom of the disease that is determined ignorance through fear, is persistently keeping us delusional in the vain hope that we all might once and forever thenceforth be happy, i.e. Utopia.

Add to this that happiness is the wrong thing to pursue. One should seek contentment, the balance point. Two ways to accomplish that; be one with everything or don't be at all - either works for me.

So the fact that people believe there is a chance for them, after they are dead, to live a life of complete bliss is a disease of humanity?


I dont understand exactly how this affects humanity as a whole. It seems like it would help a lot, because this prevents people from completely despairing and killing themselves. Even if it's all wrong and their is no God, believing in a God is what keeps some people alive.

Originally posted by ET Warrior
So the fact that people believe there is a chance for them, after they are dead, to live a life of complete bliss is a disease of humanity?

I wasn't referring to Utopia being some paradise after death; I am talking about life, both that of the the past and of the here and now.

Originally posted by ET Warrior
I dont understand exactly how this affects humanity as a whole. It seems like it would help a lot, because this prevents people from completely despairing and killing themselves. Even if it's all wrong and their is no God, believing in a God is what keeps some people alive.

You're right, you don't exactly understand. You hold the same dogmatic belief like that of the majority of the world: That life, or rather conscious existence, is unquestionably precious. As you say, "believing in God is what keeps some people alive", and I will add, "despite the pain"...That is exactly the crime of Christianity.

i personally find it humorous that people think that when they die they continue to live in another plane of existence, instead of rotting in the ground. but still even if there was a life after death i think that would be terribly boring after a while.

Originally posted by InsaneSith
i personally find it humorous that people think that when they die they continue to live in another plane of existence, instead of rotting in the ground. but still even if there was a life after death i think that would be terribly boring after a while.

I agree with everything but the boring part; I'm convinced eternity in any 'place', Heaven or Hell or what have you, can only lead to pure and total insanity.

Originally posted by Jubatus
I agree with everything but the boring part; I'm convinced eternity in any 'place', Heaven or Hell or what have you, can only lead to pure and total insanity. hell i'm bored just being in this plane of existence practically all the time:(
hence my name and location :p

Originally posted by ET Warrior
So the fact that people believe there is a chance for them, after they are dead, to live a life of complete bliss is a disease of humanity?

This, in my opinion, is why the world is so fouled up. Of the 6 billion people that are alive, nearly every one of them has some hope that they will live past their deaths. Most of them get this nonsense from religion (christianity, budism, hinduism, islam, ).

If people had it in their heads that they [i]might get 70+ years if they are lucky and healthy, they might just live their lives more carefully, healthfully, and compassionately. Because, in their minds they know, "this is all I get."

The only way to live past your death is to leave a legacy. If your memory and deeds are honored through time, then you live on. Thomas Jefferson is still living. So is Charles Darwin, Einstein, Ptolomy, Da Vinci, Aristotle, Gengis Khan, Alexander the Great, and even Hitler.

The legacy of the latter three is quite telling of their deeds.... though I've no doubt that Hitler wanted to be remembered a little better, he earned what he got.


Originally posted by ET Warrior
I dont understand exactly how this affects humanity as a whole. It seems like it would help a lot, because this prevents people from completely despairing and killing themselves.

If anything, it seems to encourage despair and suicide among other societal taboos. By it, I'm referring to religion.

Originally posted by ET Warrior
Even if it's all wrong and their is no God, believing in a God is what keeps some people alive.

But it's what kills many and encourages many more to not bother with this life, because, as long as they get forgiveness before their time is up, they can go on to "eternal life."

It bothers me why people are so close minded and not creative in their approach to existencial matters. Why they can't think of it another way either than feeling. Why they can't understand (and probably don't want to) how can it be a different form of existence with different properties, how something can exist not breathing, not feeling, not understanding. They think: "That's f**king boring", but they don't understand that they judge that from an angle of their own existence. Not that we can do otherwise, just we need to be open minded to be able comprehend such matters. How can a man exist in latters? It's very simple. No dispair here, no emotion at all, no thought, it's just different from how we do it. Is it boring? One could never tell, this category is only for humans.

well.... look at it like this, Hell-burn forever thinking about your sins, heaven-live in peace forever knowing your sins are forgiven... slight difference dont you think.


Christianity for the weak? We have strong virtues, loyalty, trust, LOVE! So were weak... but were willing to die for God?


Another thing.... CATHOLICS ARE NOT CHRISTIANS. How many times do i got to say this, they are considered christians. There bible is different to ours!!!!!!!! Which yes, allows them to burn people to death, kill people, and yes they contradict themselves constantly. Yes, they disobey there bible, with forgivness of sins, the god your supposed to worship, mary, how to get to heaven, and many more things. Yeah, they tell you whats right and wrong, but dont dare tell the church whats wrong, i know all of this! Dont get them confused with christians who are trying to follow the way God commanded them. Yeah it s a denomination (there shouldnt even be denominations!!!!) but catholics arent christians, they are catholic... believe me, ive done research on this. Hey, disagree with this, post and prove to me why your a true christian?



They think: "That's f**king boring", but they don't understand that they judge that from an angle of their own existence.

Mostly everything is perspective, thats why the bible is misinterperated, there is only one 'true' interpertation (prolly misspelled) (like with the kill all gays.... which ill explain in a min) Many people interperate the bible in many different ways, but that doesnt mean that there way of interperating its right. I mean, theres only one interperatation of it, but you could think it means this... when it means that.

About the gays, leviticus is in the old testament, it was a rule for the irealites. Its not applyed any more. God saw there needed to be a new system, so he made it, with Jesus. In Romans, the death Paul is talking about is Hell. Hell is the 2nd death. But that doesnt mean just cause your gay youll go to hell, theres always the other path, turn to christ.

Someone said about born again christians not being able to drink and stuff..... bull. EVEN CHRIST DRANK WINE!!!!!!!!!! remember the wedding? THis was a catholic who said this, the way he spoke about born agains was like they were different.


I have to address this argument now, it's been used too many times to be merely amusing anymore. Asking people that they have to disprove something that hasn't been proved, nor even observed, is absurd, and to use the argument that there is no proof of the nonexistence of something not proved, nor even observed, is equally absurd.

give me a break! You cant observe the big bang! Crap, you cant even prove half of science all the way, so that means theres a chance. Untill you prove %100 that there was a big bang, or whatever other theary there is... theres always room for something else. yeah i know you wrote other stuff, but since you cant prove your science, that means that there could be something else, and probably is.

Note: This doesn't apply to Catholicism, because if you're a 'true' Catholic, you must believe homosexuality is a sin, because the Pope said so.


Hey... the pope thinks hes God.... popes have said it in the past... yeah, popes have said that they are god.

I've at first hand witnessed this hypocrisy and have seen proof with my own eyes that rock to the very core of the bible, yet to question the very word of god is wrong?

like what? I just want to know... ;) im being open minded :)

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
well.... look at it like this, Hell-burn forever thinking about your sins, heaven-live in peace forever knowing your sins are forgiven... slight difference dont you think.

The point is, eternity in either Hell or Heaven, representing respectively torment and happiness, cannot be healthy for the mind in my oppinion.

If you are doomed to consciousness for eternity I see only two ways; either perfect balance through enlightenment or total insanity. We're talking eternity here, not 100 years or 1 million years or 1 centillion eons (which is quite alot; 225*10^606 years). Impossible to fathom, yet I can imagine the result easily enough.

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
Christianity for the weak? We have strong virtues, loyalty, trust, LOVE! So were weak... but were willing to die for God?

Your strong virtues are misguided, and even were they not you'd not need Christianity to embrace them. You're willing to die for God?...A hollow boast at best.

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
give me a break! You cant observe the big bang! Crap, you cant even prove half of science all the way, so that means theres a chance. Untill you prove %100 that there was a big bang, or whatever other theary there is... theres always room for something else. yeah i know you wrote other stuff, but since you cant prove your science, that means that there could be something else, and probably is.

Never said I was a devout follower of science, that's your wrongful assumption. But in the defence of science, they unlike Christianity can and do provide an immense load of proof for their case.

And there will always be room for something else than what science can explore and explain, but that does not validate your arguments for God one single iota more than my theory of the sevenlegged ant, Woonawoona Wantagi governing the purple peanut inside which our universe resides.

Your strong virtues are misguided, and even were they not you'd not need Christianity to embrace them. You're willing to die for God?...A hollow boast at best.


How is it a hollow boast.... millions of people have died 4 him! And Christ died for me! Look at Paul-he got his head cut off, Peter-hung on a cross upside down, Stephen-stoned to death... and many more.

Look this whole christian bashing stuff has been happening for 2000 yrs. What do u hope this thread will solve? One day i think it was maybe 1000 (dont know exact number) christians traveling to one of the countries in Europe (dont know exact country). Well any ways.. to make a long story short, they were in Rome.. i think... and the king (or govener... someone important) didnt like christians, juas cuase they were christians. Some building burned down somewhere, and the kind (or whoever) blamed noneother than the christians, who were just passing by. Guess what happend.... all em died. They stopped in a church to rest i think.. well they burned the church down. Many of the christians were hung on crosses, or tied to a stake and burned (they did that for fuel... or something). 1000 deaths... or more..... and right in the middle, paul and peter. And why did those 1000 + people die? To satisfy one man's hatred. The point of this is that christians will always be 'bashed' just cause they are christians.


Look... call christians dumb or whatever... i got another story far ya. One day there was a man named Stephen. He was a man of God. Jewish people were against him, cuase he spoke the word of God, and did many miricles with God's power. Well, they argued with him, and i guess you could say he won cause the spirit was speaking through him. So they got mad, they left, and started telling people that he said stuff against Moses, and God. That was against the law so he got taken to court, they put him on trial. Then Stephen gave this huge speech to them, about Moses. So then they got really mad cause of the speech. So they gave there coasts to a young man, named Saul. Saul, was a leading member of the pharacies. He watched them stone Stephen, and even said it was a good thing that they killed him. Well, he was really smart, and knew a lot about the law, and was really moving up. I guess he was good looking, and got a paid a whole lot. Anyways, he started telling the christians in Jerusalem, saying that he would kill them. So he went to the high preist and he asked them to send a letter to Damascus, and if he found any followers of christ, men or women, he was ganna arrest them and take them to jerusalem. i think he was planning to kill them :/ not sure. But anyways, he was heading to Damascus, and then a bright light shone from heaven, and Saul fell down, and a voice said to him 'Saul, Saul! Why are you persecuting me?' Saul said 'Who are you, Lord?' The voice said, 'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. Get up now, and go into that city. Someone there will tell you what you must do.' Everyone with Saul heard the voice. Anyways, theres more to this story, but, you might already know it. You might already know this guy, he later became know as Paul. So whats the point? The point is, is that just cause your a christian, that doesnt mean your ignorant, or whatever. Sorry that was so long, but at least its interesting.

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
How is it a hollow boast.... millions of people have died 4 him! And Christ died for me! Look at Paul-he got his head cut off, Peter-hung on a cross upside down, Stephen-stoned to death... and many more.

Was talking about you personally.

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
What do u hope this thread will solve?

Nothing, of this I'm perfectly aware.

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
The point of this is that christians will always be 'bashed' just cause they are christians.

Indeed, fortunately alot of people stand up to your crime, and hopefully more and more will do so for the right reason.

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
Look... call christians dumb or whatever... i got another story far ya. One day there was a man named Stephen. He was a man.........The point is, is that just cause your a christian, that doesnt mean your ignorant, or whatever. Sorry that was so long, but at least its interesting.

I don't believe in that story, so it holds no weight with me. I stand by my oppinion that Christians are deliberately ignorant and intellectually stagnant out of fear.

Nothing, of this I'm perfectly aware.

i wasnt talking to you, i was talking to the guy who made the thread, even though you are correct.

Indeed, fortunately alot of people stand up to your crime, and hopefully more and more will do so for the right reason.

crime? being a christain is a crime?


I don't believe in that story, so it holds no weight with me. I stand by my oppinion that Christians are deliberately ignorant and intellectually stagnant out of fear.


I dont see where the fear comes in. So we are ignorant cause we dont believe what you believe? Or... we dont stick with the 'crowd' like scientists say something, but we stick with what we already believe, so we are ignorant. Scientists cant prove anything 100% so it doesnt mean we are wrong.

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
And why did those 1000 + people die? To satisfy one man's hatred. The point of this is that christians will always be 'bashed' just cause they are christians.



how many people died 'by the cross'??

isnt it otherwise around fact that many people DIED because the DONT were christians?? hmmm. YAP.

so believe if you want. but you will always be bashed for THIS fact. CHRISTIANS ARE A CRUEL HORRIBLE SOCIETY .. no matter how many GOD CHRISTIANS (persons) there are..

In my view it's the christianity's fault that we live 'behind time' medeaval age cost us hundreds of years of technological forthcome. bah.

SO. it isnt WHAT christians believe.. it's WHAT they've done.. (and doing) .. founded on their faith..

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
crime? being a christain is a crime?

Already told you this and the reason why - don't you read what I write?

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
I dont see where the fear comes in. So we are ignorant cause we dont believe what you believe? Or... we dont stick with the 'crowd' like scientists say something, but we stick with what we already believe, so we are ignorant. Scientists cant prove anything 100% so it doesnt mean we are wrong.

Already told you I'm no devout follower of science - don't you read what I write?

Your fear is that of mankind being in existence merely by chance. Your fear is that there is no purpose to our existence than what we make for ourselves. Your fear is of seizing to exist.

"but we stick with what we already believe, so we are ignorant." Exactly; you don't evolve from this point - intellectual stagnation.

Science can't prove anything 100%, eh? It means neither that Christianity is right nor wrong. It's like saying "Science can't prove 100% there are no giant blue pingvins in Sahara, so there must be some!" With how big a percentage can you proof the truth of Christianity?

..

plus (sorry to 'interrupt') .. i can see what science is 'leading' us to .. i mean there are definite results .. and the more results the more abilities and so on we have ..

let see.. what do we have from cristianity .. NOT EVEN PEACE .. ..

and dont say science BUILD WEAPONS .. THAT is not right. Because the ABILITY is not the same as the USAGE..
(WO)MAN build weapons .. and use them .. not science or knowledge or some.

and christians CONSTANTLY tried to suppress KNOWLEDGE ..

..

I just thought I'd drop in and answer the original question of the topic:

Why is it OK to bash Christianity? Because you're practically asking for us to do it.

The USA is soaked trough with ignorant christian fundamentalists seeking to impose christian way of life upon those who do not fit their biblical ideals, completely violating the US policies that prohibits citizens from imposing their religious views upon others.

When religious schools and parents literally teach children to hate minority groups and people with different religions and sexual preferences, and the same institutions refuse to let christians learn about other religions and about the evil deeds of christianity, thus promoting that hate and facist attitudes (I once met a student in my 9th grade class who didn't know about the Crusades).

I do not "bash christianity". I, like many others, bash fanaticism, such as "holy homophobia" or "holy racism". And please not that I ban every form of fanaticism, be it Buddhist, socialist, norse unificationist, animal-lovers... or christians.

If you conventional, clear-minded christians could steer the fanatical christians away from the path of ignorance and intolerance, you'd receive less of the unfair anger from people who went their feeling at all christians instead of just the fanatics.

I know I sound harsh, but my harshness is directed at the fanatics, not at you as a regular, nice christian. Oh, and if you are a fanatic, you can't take offense as you've probably said much, much meaner things yourself.

-Dagobahn Eagle

If you conventional, clear-minded christians could steer the fanatical christians away from the path of ignorance and intolerance, you'd receive less of the unfair anger from people who went their feeling at all christians instead of just the fanatics.

youve given me something to think about here. But heres the thing, the christians who do commit these crimes, arent following the bible. The crusades were catholic right? im sure they were... and if they were christians, then they were disobeying God. Yeah i know what your talking about with these crimes, people killing... blowing up buildings and say they are doing it for God. I got an ex for you:

Tommorrow, i go to the store. I shoot everyone in there. When im asked why, im doing it the name of Jubatus, RayJones, or Dagobahn Eagle. Heres the question, did any of you have anything to do with this? Im talking from the point that God is real ok. So i go out shoot 30 people or something, and say im doing for God, or God told me to do that, or im doing it in the name of God, well whos to say God had a thing to do with it? Just because you call yourself a christian, doesnt mean your really a christian, or it doesnt mean when you do something wrong that its God's fault.

Hope that shows my point.

let see.. what do we have from cristianity .. NOT EVEN PEACE .. ..

Read your bible, does it say anything about christians bringing peace? Dude the bible is the best moral code there is.

Already told you this and the reason why - don't you read what I write?

Im guessing your talking about what i wrote above.


"but we stick with what we already believe, so we are ignorant." Exactly; you don't evolve from this point - intellectual stagnation.

ok, you see a murder, you see the murderer, and the victom. He goes to court the jury say hes inoccent, he goes free. Do you change your mind, even though you saw it? A little bit different to christianity, but same point.

and dont say science BUILD WEAPONS .. THAT is not right. Because the ABILITY is not the same as the USAGE..

You dont need science to make a weapon, you can kill with your hands... and in many other ways. And that has nothing to do with this topic ;)

how many people died 'by the cross'??

isnt it otherwise around fact that many people DIED because the DONT were christians?? hmmm. YAP.

plenty of people died by the cross... I dont really get what you said... but...... im pretty sure you missed the point of the story.




so believe if you want. but you will always be bashed for THIS fact. CHRISTIANS ARE A CRUEL HORRIBLE SOCIETY .. no matter how many GOD CHRISTIANS (persons) there are..

In my view it's the christianity's fault that we live 'behind time' medeaval age cost us hundreds of years of technological forthcome. bah.

SO. it isnt WHAT christians believe.. it's WHAT they've done.. (and doing) .. founded on their faith..

Catholic Church.

But your right... actions are important. Ok, check your bibles, read the new testament, it says how a christian is supposed to act. If a christian is committing these crimes, then they arent obeying the christian rules. Is God to blame for this? No. Its the person's choice.

With crime as the reason you do like christians, you might as well just start hating the whole human race, cause there are laws (just like the bible is the law to christians) and people constantly break them. Everyone has broken the law, whether its stealing bubble gum from a candy store, or killing someone, youve still broken the law.

Look... that 50 asian dudes bombed a building yesterday... oh no.... i hate asian people now, and they deserve whatever they get. I dont care if the rest of the asian population is perfect, some arent, and that gives me perfect reason to not like them, they are a cruel heartless society. Give me a break. No offense to any asian people here, im just trying to get my point accross. No, i dont believe that, and it sounded stupid didnt it? Now then replace the word asian with christian and im sure youll get my point ;)


and christians CONSTANTLY tried to suppress KNOWLEDGE ..

Whats wrong with knowledge... not a thing. Im a christian and im saying that. Yeah medical science has saved millions of lives, and added years to our lives. With out a simple vaccination, or even caugh medicine, millions could be dead right now. Thats perfectly fine, but its things like cloning, and abortion that gets many angry. People constantly cover there backs with abortion by saying its a choice. Your killing unborn and saying its your choice. Hell yeah its your choice, i mean you decide to kill someone or not. My point is, science is all right, untill you take it too fare. Anyways, i havnt heard about christians trying to suppress knowledge. The bible doesnt tell me dont use your computer, or dont go to school.... you might get smarter :rolleyes: Crap.... even catholics (you consider them christians, even though they break just about every commandment and rule/condition God has set up for people) The pope accepts the big bang theory so ive heard, and since he does every catholic will because he thinks hes God...

Already told you I'm no devout follower of science - don't you read what I write?

I read your stuff, i was using science as an example.


-lukeskywalker1

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
Im guessing your talking about what i wrote above.

Since it was my answer to your question, that I quoted, then yes. Seems to me you didn't even bother to find out what I was referring to, and if that is the case; that you don't bother reading your opponent's (as in we are in opposition) postings, then how do you feel justified in responding?

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
ok, you see a murder, you see the murderer, and the victom. He goes to court the jury say hes inoccent, he goes free. Do you change your mind, even though you saw it? A little bit different to christianity, but same point.

First of all the murderer is innocent, in the understanding of not guilty, in my eyes as I do no believe in guilt, but that's besides the argument. I'm not sure what you're trying to get across here, but am I to understand you've witnessed God?