Yeah...the ultimate question :D
(I realize this is a touchy subject, but let's not turn this into a flaming-contest.)
Ok:
Is sex only meant for reproduction?
Let’s take a normal(?) guy like me. Let’s say I have sex twice a week. Let’s say I stick with my wife for the rest of my life and have 2 kids with her. I’d end up having sex simply because of the pleasure it gives me...about than 6.000 times. The ratio here (reproduction/pleasure) is 0,0003 to 1.
Does the Bible regulate sex? Sex for pleasure = sin?
Whether or not it is ”safe” or happens before/after marriage is not the point here.
And if casual sex is not a sin, where does the God draw the line? Is S&M a sin? What about pooping on someone? Use your imagination…I’m sure you get my point. :D
And if sex is okay, who’s to say what is allowed and what’s not? During certain times only the Missionary-style was accepted. Is that what the Bible says? No ”tricks”? Thou shalt not spank?
And does sex = intercourse in the eyes of God? We all know there's lots you can do with your pants on. :naughty:
Opinions?
If sex was indeed only meant for reproduction, I'm absolutely sure that it has never been practiced that way.
In all marriages, no matter how pure and saintly, I think sex plays a role beyond merely making kids.
Bonobo monkies routinely engage in sexual intercourse as well as other sexual practices for pleasure and relationship building. That would indicate that in nature, sex is accepted in non-reproductive instances. Their sexual practices include homosexuality, oral sex, and the use of objects for sexual pleasure (masturbation).
Bonobo monkies have never been observed engaging in sex as aggression (rape), but rather for what appears to be improving relationships. Female Bonobos appear to strengthen friendships between one-another by engaging in various forms of lesbian sex. This also helps them counter dominance by male Bonobos.
I think that one has to look at sex not as good or bad, when not for reproduction, but rather the ethics involved in comparisson to societal norms. It is unethical in most societies to engage in sex with anyone who does not consent, is exceedingly young, unable to make decisions for themselves, etc. Many would argue that it is wrong to engage in sex without protection from disease and pregnancy, and common sense dictates that if you don't put a raincoat on and end up with a child, you are 50% responsible for that child's well being.
SkinWalker
Lord have mercy :roleyess:
To quote Monty Python, "Every sperm is sacred" :D Every one has the potential to create life, and to waste them on self-gratification is the sin.
Besides, studies show that Catholics who wait til marriage have more and better sex than your average person :naughty:
How do they know it is better if they have no other experience to compare it to?
Originally posted by Luc Solar
Ok:
Is sex only meant for reproduction?
No it is meant for pleasure also BUT as the Bible says, ONLY WITH THE PERSON YOU ARE MARRIED TO. Thats the only time I believe and the Bible says you can have sex, whether for reproduction or for pleasure.
Originally posted by Luc Solar
Does the Bible regulate sex? Sex for pleasure = sin?
Whether or not it is ”safe” or happens before/after marriage is not the point here.
Actually that does matter. In the Bible, sex for pleasure BEFORE marraige IS SIN. Sex with YOUR WIFE for pleasure is NOT sin. I think the only regulation the Bible has sex is do things that you both agree on. Don't force your wife to do something she doesn't want.
Originally posted by Luc Solar And if casual sex is not a sin, where does the God draw the line? Is S&M a sin? What about pooping on someone? Use your imagination…I’m sure you get my point. :D
I don't see how pooping on someone consists as sex. See my above response.
Originally posted by Luc Solar
And if sex is okay, who’s to say what is allowed and what’s not? During certain times only the Missionary-style was accepted. Is that what the Bible says? No ”tricks”? Thou shalt not spank?
Where did you hear about the "only the Missionary style" thing? That is untrue. The Bible doesn't talk about positions. See my response 2 things up.
Originally posted by Luc Solar
And does sex = intercourse in the eyes of God? We all know there's lots you can do with your pants on. :naughty:
Umm you can have oral sex with your pants on. Anything that involves the genetials can be considered "sex." Kissing is not sex. I am allowed to kiss my girlfriend if I'm not married to her. But I can't give her a hand job because that would be sin because I'm not married to her.
Just my $0.02 :D
Sex with your wife is fine. Doing it constantly may not be healthy phisically but I suppose it's fine.
other than with your wife it's wrong. And I suppose that is were God draws the line. Based on my knowledge of the BIBLE that is what I think.
::walks out from underneath rock::
ok...is this the wrong place to ask what "S&M" is?
back on topic, i think that sex is meant for pleasure and also for reproduction. perhaps its because im an atheist and have never read the entire Bible, but i think that God should have no say in it. however, i also think that abstinence should be observed until you find THE someone.
back on topic, i think that sex is meant for pleasure and also for reproduction. perhaps its because im an atheist and have never read the entire Bible, but i think that God should have no say in it. however, i also think that abstinence should be observed until you find THE someone.
just asume for a moment that if God did exist, do you still think he should have no say. That's like playing the game the sims but having no say in what thier house looks like or what possessions they can and canot use.
ill go with choice A bob.
Originally posted by ImmolatedYoda
::walks out from underneath rock::
ok...is this the wrong place to ask what "S&M" is? Good question to ask, as you can't really infer the meaning from context. Sadism & Masochism. It's sort of like kinky sex I guess.
Sadism means they derive sexual pleasure from recieving or inflicting pain. The word comes from Marquee De Sade, a twisted gentlemen who has written some interesting works. Check them out sometime.
Masochism means someone derives sexual pleasure from humiliating, or being humiliated. A situation would be one person is dominated, and the other is the dominator.
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
I am allowed to kiss my girlfriend if I'm not married to her. But I can't give her a hand job because that would be sin because I'm not married to her.It's a sin to give a tranny a handjob, unless you are married to her/him :confused: ? Dude, I'm pretty sure that topic is not covered anywhere in the bible.
Originally posted by Jedi_Monk
Lord have mercy :roleyess:
To quote Monty Python, "Every sperm is sacred" :D Every one has the potential to create life, and to waste them on self-gratification is the sin.
Besides, studies show that Catholics who wait til marriage have more and better sex than your average person :naughty:
Um...you just said sex for pleasure bad, and then that Catholics who wait have more and better sex. Thats sex for pleasure. I dont really like insulting people, but someone has to let you in on it. You're an idiot.
And as far as sex for purposes other than procreation being wrong, its stupid. Sex isnt a sin because sins are irrelevant.
Originally posted by munik
It's a sin to give a tranny a handjob, unless you are married to her/him :confused: ? Dude, I'm pretty sure that topic is not covered anywhere in the bible.
I'm just giving an example. I'll do some more research on this and get back to you.
Originally posted by Lime-Light
lol
Such spam. C'jais please do something about this.
Munik what I meant was, giving someone a hand job is simulating sex, therefore I believe it is wrong as does the Bible. Oral is simulating sex, sloppy thirds and all that are simulating sex.
Ah here we go,
Matthew 15 18-19
But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
Romans 13 12-14
The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature
1 Corinthians 6 17-19
But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
Ephesians 5 2-4
and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.
Oh and there's a lot more where that came from.
well who said a handjob is immoral? i dont remember hearing anything about a handjob being immoral. not to mention did god say it, if the bible said it how you know its true, maybe the dude made that up?
Personally, I think anything that get's you aroused is sex. If you get off by licking a salmon, then that is sex for you.
The "marriage thing" or "only with thy wife"-thing is not the issue here in this thread.
It matters when talking about sex in general, but since we already have a thread about that, I wanted to avoid repeating it.
I don't see how pooping on someone consists as sex.
You'd be amazed of what sort of things turn people on. Ever heard of "Golden Showers"? If not, use your imagiation. :D
Where did you hear about the "only the Missionary style" thing? That is untrue. The Bible doesn't talk about positions.
You're right (I suppose). The Bible says nothing about that, but as the name of the position implies, our Christian missionaries have had something to do with it. :)
It was (is?) taught to infidels as the only acceptable way to have intercourse. (Don't want to know how the missionaries found out that they needed to teach this to locals. :D )
This is a bit beside the point, but I think it is much MUCH worse to kiss a woman (other than your wife) than grab her butt or whatever. I feel kissing is worse than a handjob.
Sex with your wife is fine. Doing it constantly may not be healthy phisically but I suppose it's fine.
Sex is great for the relationship and it affects your health in a positive way. There are countless researches on the subject. Have lots of sex and you live longer and stay healthy. It's exercise for the body and the mind. :)
On the other hand we do have "studies" that show masturbating and doggy-style sex causes hair to start growing from you palms, you go deaf, blind, impotent and sterile. :rolleyes:
Now... you can't talk about sex. No-one can know that you have done it. Be quiet so that no-one hears. Hide all evidence of what happened. That's just common (religious?) courtesy...right?
I think religion must keep it's hands off sex. (Other than the marriage-thing). I don't see how religion could regulate it. Sex will always(?) be seen as something dirty, something sinful in the eyes of God.
All I believe God can say is: don't do anything that you both don't want to.
Anything that goes beyond that is just silly.
Thou may wiggle this but not that! :D
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
Matthew 15 18-19
But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality......
Nice quotes BUT the whole point of this thread is, in fact:
What is sexual immorality?
:D
That's the whole problem. What's is ok, what's not? Obviously we are not free to do whatever we want according to the big book, right?
What I'm saying is; there's no way any religion can satisfactorily regulate sex. It's impossible...unless the rule is: "do whatever you want" or "sex is for reproduction only".
Um...you just said sex for pleasure bad, and then that Catholics who wait have more and better sex. Thats sex for pleasure. I dont really like insulting people, but someone has to let you in on it. You're an idiot.
Self gratification as in masturbation (where there's no chance of procreation) and casual sex where contraceptives are involved (where there's little chance of procreation and no openness to it). You have too much sex with too many different partners and you're playing Russian Rulette, that's a fact.
You can have as much sex as you want (in the context of marriage), but you must allow for the possibility that life will be created. It's less stressful and therefore better sex because you don't have to worry about the condom breaking :rolleyes:
You're lying if you're trying to say you've never beat the meat. Anyone who forces a man to not do it as well as not have any sex until marriage (which could be as late as his 30s, depending on the person) is asking for one pent up, frstrated, easily pissed off guy. I'm sorry, religion aside, it's simply biological. Men have needs that need to be released from time to time. If they dont, they get a little wiggy on you.
And for you 13-14 yr olds out there... dont try to comment on the above statement, you're simply not old enough (trust me).
(you know, this could explain a lot of violence that occured in the past. Religion kept men from releasing their tensions in any way, shape, or form... so they went buggy and waged wars instead)
its been known that pented up sexual feelings lead to rape.
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
You're lying if you're trying to say you've never beat the meat. Anyone who forces a man to not do it as well as not have any sex until marriage (which could be as late as his 30s, depending on the person) is asking for one pent up, frstrated, easily pissed off guy. I'm sorry, religion aside, it's simply biological. Men have needs that need to be released from time to time. If they dont, they get a little wiggy on you.
Its ok to do that. If someone else does it to you and your not married to them, thats when it becomes wrong in my eyes.
but then you miss out on all the fun;)
it is hard to draw the line, but that's why we have a concience.
A hand job is definetly sin. but it's not sex.
if you can't have fun any other way than sex, you obviously have no life. But I know what you mean. no you don't miss out on all the fun, just get married.
and until your married, wait patiently, it will be worth it.
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
No it is meant for pleasure also BUT as the Bible says, ONLY WITH THE PERSON YOU ARE MARRIED TO. Thats the only time I believe and the Bible says you can have sex, whether for reproduction or for pleasure.
Again a part of the bible that can do immesurable damage...
In most Inuit cultures a standard gesture of hospitality is to offer your wife to the stranger. This is done simply because your village's gene pool needs to be stirred up once in a while and these communities are very isolated. So in order to escape the problem of genetic degeneration, you share your women with strangers...
But of course if you don't realize that there is such a thing as evolution this concern is irrelevant...
Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
In most Inuit cultures a standard gesture of hospitality is to offer your wife to the stranger. This is done simply because your village's gene pool needs to be stirred up once in a while and these communities are very isolated. So in order to escape the problem of genetic degeneration, you share your women with strangers...
But of course if you don't realize that there is such a thing as evolution this concern is irrelevant...
Are people living in places like New York City, Hong Kong and Boston like the Inuits? The Inuits don't follow the Bible, they have their own religion. I don't think its customary for a New Yorker to offer his wife to a stranger.
Originally posted by Mandolorian54
Doing it constantly may not be healthy phisically but I suppose it's fine.
Actually it is supposed to be quite healthy...
[...]God draws the line. Based on my knowledge of the BIBLE[...]
Welcome to the "random fundamentalist on my Ignore List to win a hundred credits" draw. Next draw is on the next 30th of February. Void where prohibited and everywhere else.
Who gives a flying what the bible says?
Are people living in places like New York City, Hong Kong and Boston like the Inuits? The Inuits don't follow the Bible, they have their own religion. I don't think its customary for a New Yorker to offer his wife to a stranger.
Read up on the History of the World. The Inuit communities were christened... Their culture was all but wiped out (well, surprise, surprise).
So they actually were forced to follow the foolish christian doctrines... And besides, we are getting to a really good point: Only follow the bible if and when it is rationally advisable... Good point. Keep that in mind.
Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
Who gives a flying what the bible says?
I could say the same for an atheist. Who gives a flying what an atheist says because I know I'm saved by the Bible? I don't say that however because there's a thing called respect for others people beliefs/religions/anything. I don't believe that you have that.
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
I could say the same for an atheist. Who gives a flying what an atheist says because I know I'm saved by the Bible? I don't say that however because there's a thing called respect for others people beliefs/religions/anything. I don't believe that you have that.
I may at times fail to respect people whose bodies are in the 21st century, but whose philosophical background belongs in the pre-Dark Age nonsense of the bible. You may wish to remember that Christainity has done nothing of value to the world, whereas atheism has... So you owe atheism a BIG favor, but I don't owe Christianity anything.
One of the reasons Christianity hasn't been able o do anything is because it HASN'T BEEN ALLOWED. Atheists push it away whenever it tries to, it has been disallowed in public school whereas "atheist ways" are being taught in things like Science all the time. Christianity hasn't been given a chance and thats why its very hard for it to do anything.
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
One of the reasons Christianity hasn't been able o do anything is because it HASN'T BEEN ALLOWED. Atheists push it away whenever it tries to, it has been disallowed in public school whereas "atheist ways" are being taught in things like Science all the time. Christianity hasn't been given a chance and thats why its very hard for it to do anything.
Christianity had 18 ****ing centuries to create progress before atheism even showed up. But what did it do all the time? Not a single ****ing thing! So DON'T feed me the "religion is being discriminated by science" crap.
Chill, guys... :cool:
Schools dont teach "atheist ways." Rather, they simply dont teach a religion. Are they to choose one particular religion to teach? That would be a violation of church and state (schools being state institutions), and besides, it's not feasible. If you taught christianity, you'd alienate the muslim population, the jewish population, the wiccan population (growing, in most schools, even if it is a little odd), and so on. It's best to stay neutral and let the kids pick their own religion (or their parents, as it usually is). Besides, isnt that what the bible promotes? Free will? Let people choose, dont brainwash them at an early age. Thats why I think that of all the christian factions, Born-Again is the best one. Probably where I'd go if I had to choose.
As for them teaching science... come now. Science is far too important to our society to not teach it. It's not a religion. Science has an advantage over religion in that it's, generally, hard facts with solid evidence. Religion is based on faith (very intangible and subsceptible to human errors and flaws) and ancient books that may or may not have been modified from their original forms.
Science is best taught because it's a surefire thing, there's usually no arguing with it. You can argue that Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead. You cant argue that night and day are exactly the same amount of time on Sept 21 and March 21.
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
Chill, guys... :cool: i agree. this man is a wise one.
Originally posted by InsaneSith
i agree. this man is a wise one.
Confucius say... ;)
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
*runs away*
:confused:
Back so soon, Shock? :D
Btw - our schools teach Christianity.
Hmm..let me rephrase: our schools tell about christianity as well as other religions.
That reminds me >> A while back some muslim parents took their kids (3-5 year olds) away from nursery school and started "rioting", because the kids had a play where everyone was dancing around in a circle wearing a red hat (just like Santa).
They thought it was horrible that their kids were taught such disgusting insults against islam. :rolleyes:
I hate what religion has done to some people.
OK, let's solve this "faith/fact controversy": Let someone use "the Christian way" to create something useful such as a nuclear power plant that doesn't blow itself up... If you can do that without science, then I will accept "the Christian way" to be the basis for school classes. Until you have done that, I hold Christianity to be useless, crappy, murderous BS. And unlike you, I'll have something called proof...
Originally posted by Luc Solar
I hate what religion has done to some people.
yes .....blowing up etc.
Originally posted by Luc Solar
:confused:
Back so soon, Shock? :D
Btw - our schools teach Christianity.
Hmm..let me rephrase: our schools tell about christianity as well as other religions.
That reminds me >> A while back some muslim parents took their kids (3-5 year olds) away from nursery school and started "rioting", because the kids had a play where everyone was dancing around in a circle wearing a red hat (just like Santa).
They thought it was horrible that their kids were taught such disgusting insults against islam. :rolleyes:
I hate what religion has done to some people.
lol I couldnt keep quiet.
I'm all for being informed about all the religions. Heck, I'd even go so far as to suggest that all schools teach about all the major religions (which many of them do). It's good to be informed, and religion is such a large part of the world society that not being aware of the aspects of it would just be ignorance.
What I'm against is school being taught on certain religious outlines. Ex. Science class teaching the creation theory as fact, citing god and the bible as their main sources. Or history class not teaching anything about the effects the muslim religon had on much of the world, or teaching it with a bias against muslims from a christian point of view. Thats simply wrong. Teach neutral, let the kids decide where they want to be. School is not the place to preach.
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
School is not the place to preach.
Which is what many Christians in here interpret as a serious insult to their religion, because not preaching is viewed as "unchristian".
Horsesh/t.
Originally posted by C'jais
Which is what many Christians in here interpret as a serious insult to their religion, because not preaching is viewed as "unchristian".
Aaah, but it is. It is heathen.
Originally posted by C'jais
Which is what many Christians in here interpret as a serious insult to their religion, because not preaching is viewed as "unchristian".
Well, they are right in that not preaching is unchristian. It's part of being a christian to try to convert other people to christianity. But school isnt the place for it, and if it's insulting... boohoo, cry me a river. You dont see muslims or jewish people whining about it...
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
You dont see muslims or jewish people whining about it...
Actually you do. Every branch of faith creates its own fundamentalists...
True. I guess we should be thankful that the Christian fundamentalists dont fly planes into buildings. (they just blow up abortion clinics... :rolleyes: )
Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
Christianity had 18 ****ing centuries to create progress before atheism even showed up. But what did it do all the time? Not a single ****ing thing! So DON'T feed me the "religion is being discriminated by science" crap.
Umm atheism has been around for well past 18 centuries. In case you didn't know:
Atheism:
1.
a. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
b. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.
2. Godlessness; immorality.
Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
OK, let's solve this "faith/fact controversy": Let someone use "the Christian way" to create something useful such as a nuclear power plant that doesn't blow itself up... If you can do that without science, then I will accept "the Christian way" to be the basis for school classes. Until you have done that, I hold Christianity to be useless, crappy, murderous BS. And unlike you, I'll have something called proof...
Ok you don't seem to get it. Christianity is a RELIGION. RELIGIONS DO NOT TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO BUILD MACHINES. Therefore your analogy about the power plant is flawed.
well shock, you act as if the christians are out of place and it's the athiests country and they get to make all the rules. This country was founded by bible believing christians, which is why it's a free country. evry other country at the time was like comunist, or muslim.
you can't stop people from preaching, many have tried, even killing those who preach for preaching. If we were just tring to expand our religion we wouldn't exacly be willing to die would we?
so if you don't like our preaching you can cry.
and you do such a good impression of people when they cry, you must have a lot of experience with crying. I kid, I kid.
Originally posted by Mandolorian54
well shock, you act as if the christians are out of place and it's the athiests country and they get to make all the rules.
But they should get to make the rules, simply because they aren't affected by religion (wich might decrease their ability to rule, sorry to say it (BTW, don't say I'm flaming your religion, because I didn't say "christianity", I said religion in general)
This country was founded by bible believing christians, which is why it's a free country. evry other country at the time was like comunist, or muslim.
Fer one thing, it didn't exist communism at the time US was founded, so all the "civilized" countries were christian, but they still hadn't a lot of freedom. A lot of the most oppressing countries throughout time has been christian.
And you say that all the muslim countries were oppressing. But for most part, they were more free than countries based on christianity.
so if you don't like our preaching you can cry.
And if you don't like your religion being critisized, you can cry as well.
Antheism is not taught in school. Science and evolution(note that's it's a theory,and most teachers(mine at least) cautioned that while it's an accepted theory,the pupils dont have to follow it.) are taught.
Now,if you're saying that Science shouldnt be taught in schools..Dark Ages here we go again...
Edit- as for the um..subject...I withold all ideas on the matter,as I havent experianced it first hand.
...I think...
:D