Christianity differs from other major religions quite a bit.
When you walk around the streets you don't see anything religious. Go to Islamic or Hindu countries and you see the difference. There everything is controlled by religion: what you wear, where you can go and with whom, what you're allowed to do and when/with whom/where, what you can eat, what you can say etc. etc. etc.
Can christianity even be considered a religion anymore? Am I Christian? I suppose so, technically anyway. I'm Evangelical Lutheran (sp?).
Does religion play any part in my life? Sometimes, I guess. I pray every night, but mumbling through the same litany without even thinking can hardly be considered as praying.
When do Christians pray? I'd say never except if they are in trouble, except if something really bad is about to happen. We pray only when we are scared and need something.
Are most Christians hypocrites? I believe so.
What about the Bible? Do you live by it? Do you believe every word it says or only the convenient parts? Does the Bible form you morals or do you simply use it to back up you opinions when it serves your purposes?
Do you Christians even believe in the Biblical God? Was Jesus his son? Was Maria conceived through the wholy spirit? Does the communion-wine turn into Jesus' blood?
Do you think you must agree with the Bible in order to be a real Christian? Can you be a good person even if you are not a Christian and if so, why would we even need the Bible?
are you asking us what we say about you or about ourselves?
Ummm.. I already voted, so you don't need to wonder what I'm all about. :)
The question was directed at everyone. Are *you* a true christian or not?
...or just general dicussion on the subject.
I'm Buddhist. so i said im not even pretending to be christian.
I'm glad my parents didn't Christen/baptize me. Otherwise I would have been officially "Christian" by now.
In our modern society, there are two ways to become Christian:
You parents pass on the tradition. Brainwash, no matter how well intentioned it is. You get no choice in accepting the customs and rituals as real facts. Belief in God becomes a natural thing, senseless and pointless to question. Praying becomes an automated process with no active belief needed.
The other way is done by dying people on their deathbed, who seeks a way to prove that their life wasn't completely meaningless.
How many pick up Jesus in the middle of their lives without haven been presented to him as childs? None that I know of. If it was outlawed for parents to pass on their customs, the world would be secularized in no time.
In real life, I have never ever met a religious young person. Only on the internet.
Posted by Cjais
I'm glad my parents didn't Christen/baptize me. Otherwise I would have been officially "Christian" by now.I'm eternally thankful to my parents for the same reason.
When I was five or six, however, I felt like an outsider because so many of my friends had either been Christened or Baptised... I'm unbelievably glad I didn't give in to the subtle pressure that was there.
In our modern society, there are two ways to become Christian:
You parents pass on the tradition. Brainwash, no matter how well intentioned it is. You get no choice in accepting the customs and rituals as real facts. Belief in God becomes a natural thing, senseless and pointless to question. Praying becomes an automated process with no active belief needed.I'm actually working on a thread right now about that... It might take me quite a while to post it though, as I'm still gathering sources and info... :(
The other way is done by dying people on their deathbed, who seeks a way to prove that their life wasn't completely meaningless.
How many pick up Jesus in the middle of their lives without haven been presented to him as childs?A few, but they tend to have been inducted into groups at vulnerable times in their lives... I saw a fairly impartial documentary about it a little while ago... It wasn't pleasent viewing, I can tell you, but it did vastly broaden my understading of several things.
If it was outlawed for parents to pass on their customs, the world would be secularized in no time.That would be fantastic, IMO... It'll never happen on a wide scale, though :(
In real life, I have never ever met a religious young person. Only on the internet. Same here... Odd really.
*edit*
And turn off invisible, dammit, Jais! :p :D
I am a christian, and I strongly believe in Christian ethics. That includes not insulting others for what they believe.
Originally posted by obi-wan13
I am a christian, and I strongly believe in Christian ethics. That includes not insulting others for what they believe.
Sorry Obi, I was thinking aloud. I meant what I said though, I truly do believe that there aren't any other real ways to become Christian these days. That's just how it has always seemed to me, here in heathen Denmark. Over here, anyone who calls himself a Christian has probably never prayed, read the Bible or gone to church apart from the usual ceremonies. Not kidding. They simply believe there's a higher power and leave it at that.
But hey, if it's different conditions over there, I'll gladly listen.
Are most Christians hypocrites? I believe so.
Sadly some Christians are hypocrities. But not as many as you may think. The problem is that people only notice when a Christian is doing something bad. But we as Christians make mistakes too, or else there would be no need for Christ or the Cross. But again I know that there are a lot of Christian hypocrites out there.
Am I Christian? I suppose so, technically anyway.
Respectfully I dont think that anyone can "technically" be a Christian. Either you are or you aren't, period. Its a matter of the heart.
I pray every night, but mumbling through the same litany without even thinking can hardly be considered as praying.
Your right; prayer comes from the heart. If you are just paying lip service to God then in my opinion you should stop wasting your time. You should pray to God because you want to.
When do Christians pray? I'd say never except if they are in trouble, except if something really bad is about to happen. We pray only when we are scared and need something.
:rolleyes: Sadly thats ture a lot of the time. We as Christians have this great tool with which we can speak directly to God and we sometimes forget it is there. :)
What about the Bible? Do you live by it? Do you believe every word it says or only the convenient parts?
Yes. In my opinion, and according to the Bible, every word in it is true. Even the parts we dont like :). No one ever said that life as a Christian is a "bed of roses." But I would not have it any other way.
Do you Christians even believe in the Biblical God? Was Jesus his son?
How can you be a Christian and not believe in the Bible. Its not possible.
Yes Christ was Gods Son and it was a virgin birth.
Does the communion-wine turn into Jesus' blood?
That was and still is a big argument in the church today. In my opinion it is just a symbol of the blood Jesus shed not the actual thing.
Can you be a good person even if you are not a Christian
Anyone can be a good person. But as a Christian you definitely need to be a good person, there is not question about it.
Now after all that :D I want to say that these are just my beliefs and if you believe something different I respect that.
Originally posted by Rogue_Ace
Now after all that :D I want to say that these are just my beliefs and if you believe something different I respect that.
They are not just your beliefs, but they are mine as well. ;) In fact, I cannot think of a better way to say it.
When I talk to people about Christ, some give me a dirty look, or even threaten me. I care not what they think, for I am not trying to please them. The only one I am trying to please is God, and if someone else doesn't like it, well, that is their problem. ;)
You parents pass on the tradition. Brainwash, no matter how well intentioned it is. You get no choice in accepting the customs and rituals as real facts. Belief in God becomes a natural thing, senseless and pointless to question. Praying becomes an automated process with no active belief needed.
No matter that you were baptised at birth, that your parents have raised you on the traditions--there will always come a point in everyone's life when they must decide what they truly believe. I reached that point, and I decided I do believe in the traditions passed on to me, but not every Christian-rased person does--far from it.
How many pick up Jesus in the middle of their lives without haven been presented to him as childs? None that I know of. If it was outlawed for parents to pass on their customs, the world would be secularized in no time.
Every Easter, thousands of adults are innitiated into the Catholic Church. There's not an Easter Vigil service I've been to where there weren't at least a half-dozen people being innitiated. The majority are probably protestant converts, but there are many from non-Christian lifestyles who have decided to join the Church. And if the passage of traditions from parent to child were outlawed, it would hardly be a free society.
In real life, I have never ever met a religious young person. Only on the internet.
I go to youth group every Sunday, and am surrounded by very devout teenagers.
As for me, I follow the New Testament and the Dogma of the Church (and, yes, I believe in the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist). The Old Testament is a history of our faith, which stemmed out of Judaism, and a record of prophesies of the Messiah. But the New Testament supercedes the old for Christians, which is why the Church is against the death penalty, when it was allowed under the Old Covenant. I pray every day, morning prayers and the Chaplat of Divine Mercy (a variation of the Rosary), and I also pray for strength whenever temptation creeps into my mind. I go to Church every Sunday and every Holy Day and it's not a chore for me. I go to youth group after Mass and help run it as well. The Church and religious life takes up a good portion of my life.
I do not question my own faith, but I am having some troubles on my walk. I recently got engaged and then she decided to changer her mind in a week's span. I am kind of lost now, and I do have a serious disposition with churches as a whole.
I do not question my own faith, but I am having some troubles on my walk. I recently got engaged and then she decided to changer her mind in a week's span. I am kind of lost now, and I do have a serious disposition with churches as a whole.
Wow that sucks :( . It sounds like you are a believer so you have this before but I'll say it anyway. Everything happens for a reason and although you may not see it now i'm sure that God will reveal it to you in the future. I know that those words are not really that comforting but thats life, it goes on even through the suckey(is that even a word:D ) parts. I know other Christians have felt the same way you do. I have. But looking back on those bad times I'm glad they happened, I learned valuable lessons. So understand that God had a good reason for letting that happen to you even though you may not see it now.:)
I believe in Jesus, and stick w/the morals that are taught in the Bible. I prefer to let my actions speak louder than words when it comes to the 'preaching the gospel' part.
Now when I was younger, around 8 I think. I was baptised into a methodist church. [I think that's christian *shrugs*]
Obviously, I don't practice it much.....I do think that most christians are hypocrites. I'd go into detail but I'm way too tired and I should be in bed. :o
I do thinks I can be a Christian without believing every word the Bible says.
The Old Testament is horrible. It is barbaric, cruel, prejudiced. The Old Testament is a symbol for the very opposite of what *my* God and *my* faith represents.
The Old Testament symbolises the sort of religion that is the root of all evil.
* waiting for a bolt of lightning to strike me down *
Okay. Phew!
If you look at the Talebans or other highly religious communities, you see what I'm, talking about.
"Only WE are righteous, everyone else is an abomination to GOD and must be punished/destroyed! Women are but dogs, breeding machines trying to entice our holy Men into acts of sin! Women must never show their faces or walk in public without their husband or brother and when they sit in their room, they are not allowed to open any windows! If a woman opens the window and seduced a man to do sinful acts with her (=gets raped), the Husband must slaughter her immediately in order to maintain the honour of his family."
Hmmm.. enough about that.
The new Testament is a whole different story however. It's a great book with lots of info that is still useful. I just don't think that one should take it literally. An example:
The bible says: No sex before marriage.
What *I* think the bible says here is this:
1) Do not screw around because that may cause emotinal distress to your partner, if you both are not in for it solely for the "fun".
2) Do not screw around because having sex with multiple partners upps the chance of getting or forwarding STD 's.
3) Do not screw around because it might lead to the woman getting pregnant, which leads to a lot of problems.
4) Sex is meant to be a beautiful thing. Only have sex with people you care about, with people you love.
5) Always use protection to protect you and your partner from STD's and unwanted pregnancies.
6) Have childres only at the point when you are both ready for it. The good of the child is your first priority.
But instead the Bible says: "No sex before marriage period"
Times have changed. The point is still valid, but it needs to be interpreted differently now that things have changed (contraceptives etc.).
My god is not the god of Israel or the god of Christians. Simply the fact that we have so many religions in the world proves in a way the fact that none of us is right.
Is the true God an alien race or just a blob somewhere beyond our universe? I don't know. But what I do know is that no damn god takes every drop of community wine and changes it to the blood of a person who allegedly lived some 2000 years ago.
Neither do I believe that God really wants me to bend over and mumble some mantras 5 times per day or else I face his horrble wrath. God must have better things to do.
Perhaps God has given us guidelines, codes that we should strive to live by. But ATM a certain code is passй. It can not be taken literally anymore. That is my opinion.
Religion is the root of all evil in the hands of men. How many wars have we fought that would have been prevented if no religion existed? How much hate and suffering would disappear this day if suddenly the whole world would turn Buddhist?
Think about it.
The Old Testament is horrible. It is barbaric, cruel, prejudiced. The Old Testament is a symbol for the very opposite of what *my* God and *my* faith represents.
I dont think that the Old Testament is horrible at all, have you ever read Psalms. Psalms contains some of the most beautify poetry ever written.
You say that it (OT) is cruel and barbaric, so you are saying that God is cruel and barbaric, not true. The OT is the history of the Jewish people and when you read it you can see that they screw up a lot , yet this cruel and barbaric God does not blast them from the face of the earth like they deserved. Yes He did punish them severly, but when they came back to Him and asked his forgivness.
Yes New Testament Law supersedes that of the OT but that does not mean that we should throw all of its teachings out the window. It is still the Bible, the Word of God and it should be followed. The reason that we are not "struck down by a bolt of lightening:)" is because we now have Christ intervening on our behalf.
If you look at the Talebans or other highly religious communities, you see what I'm, talking about.
Very true. But those communities do not represent the Christian Community, in fact they are the exact opposite.
I know what you are going to say, to just look at the Jews and all the crap that is happening over in Israel at this time. But the Jews are not Christians, they only believe in the OT, they do not believe that Christ was their Savior. They expected that the King would come and fight all their wars for them and make them the supreme rulers of all the word; what they got was a carpender. I dont even consider most Catholics to be Christians, most of them are just "sunday Christians" and go to church for what they believe is "fire insurance," they dont want to go to hell so they figure that good works and going to chruch once a week will ensure them a place in Heavan.
But instead the Bible says: "No sex before marriage periodTimes have changed. The point is still valid, but it needs to be interpreted differently now that things have changed (contraceptives etc.). "
Yes is does and that still stands for today, and not just in the OT. When you start to take the Bible as partially true then you are destroying the whole concept of it. You start to take only the parts that are fun and lovey and get rid of the rest. Whats the point of believing only certian parts that make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
Solar I hope that you dont think that I am singleing you out, you are making some great points that I think I can help add perspective to. So no hard feelings right?:D
Yes I am a christian.
I am a Baptist to be exact.
and I don't beleive you should be baptized as a child because you are supposed to be baptized as a public statment that you have faith and want to be a christian. When your a baby you don't have faith you dont even know you exist yet. How many of you remember being baptized? You only know your baptized because you were told.
I strongly believe in the doctrins of grace.
I am against abortion, infant baptism,and women preachers.
I don't believe in speaking in toungs, or a secret rapture. I believe in a very loud and public rapture.
Catholics,and Jehovah witnesses are not christians even though they call themselves christians.
And Christianity is not a religeon its a faith!
And duh you have to believe in the Bible to be a christian, thats like saying I don't believe in Christ but I'm a Christian. not believing in the Bible and still praying and stuff is like saying your an ian with no Christ on the begining.
No one should be 'brainwashed', as you put it. No one should follow a religion just because their parents did. No one should 'just believe.' Likewise, no one should discount a belief system because of a bad circumstance (i.e. believing that God is evil because you lost your job.) No one should be afraid of asking questions about religion out of fear of punishment. If you can't ask questions and get logical answers, it's not worth believing in. Everyone should be able to back up their beliefs with arguments. Otherwise, it's not worth believing in.
Now, I have found that Christianity is the only belief system (philosophical, theological, and otherwise) that is able to answer my questions adequately. And yes, there was a time when I doubted the religion, but it was because I was able to get thorough and logical answers that I stayed with it.
The Testaments:
The New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies. They go together, and can't be taken seperately. Some of the laws and regulations in the OT were negated by Jesus' words in the NT, and that was because Jesus changed the way man related to God. The OT isn't wrong, per se, it's just the other half of the story; just the way past history is the other half of what is going on in the world today with these international conflicts and whatnot.
And about that 'no sex before marriage' thing: it's still valid. Just because we can do it more safely than in their times doesn't mean that we should. Sex is a precious thing, a sign of commitment to a partner, not just a 'good time.' After sex, what is the most intimate thing a couple can share? Answer: not much.
Hypocrisy:
Sadly there are hypocritical Christians, and they often get most of the publicity. But that is only because they are humans, and humans are flawed. If we weren't flawed, we wouldn't need God. If anyone says they are perfect, it's a sure sign that they aren't.
Summary:
Don't judge Christianity or any other religion by the people who practise it. Judge it by what it says at its core and how well it applies to the real world.
(Whew, sorry about all that...)
And Christianity is not a religeon its a faith!
Right on man!!!:D
Try this one: Christianity is not a religeon its a relationship. :)
The OT isn't wrong, per se, it's just the other half of the story; just the way past history is the other half of what is going on in the world today with these international conflicts and whatnot.
Exactly
While I generally don't concern myself with Christian beliefs, I must speak aloud now:
Catholics are just as much Christian as you are. No less. They believe in Christ and the Bibler, ergo the are Christians. This cannot be debated, or you'll have to pervert the current language.
Christianity is a religion. I don't know where you got this from, M54, but the idea of it not being a religion is absurd.
The Old Testament is barbaric. God kills women, kids and innocent people. He is outright violating his preachings in the New Testament. And it contains the worst hogwash known to date - the Genesis. This alone should be reason enough to disregard it completely as nonsense.
And Luc is doing the right thing. Interpreting the Bible for himself. If you acknowledge the fact that there are metaphors in the Bible, he isn't doing anything wrong at all. He is not picking the bits he like - he's trying to fold an outdated text to fit modern problems. It can't be done by assuming that everything in the Bible is literal truth. It has already been proven false on far too many accounts.
And our church would behave the same way today if the western world hadn't got secularized at the end of the dark ages. Society put a gun to the church's head, and it was forced to comply. This has not happened in the middle east, as their conditions now equal those of the dark ages. Yes, the Christian church once did the exact same executions and bloody rituals.
Catholics are just as much Christian as you are. No less. They believe in Christ and the Bibler, ergo the are Christians. This cannot be debated, or you'll have to pervert the current language.
I didn't say all Catholics I said some . Those who just go to church and the second they leave they become a different person. That really ticks me off because its them that give Christians as a whole a bad name. Do people usually notice when a Christian is doing something good? Almost never unless they are getting money. But like I said earlier the second a Christian does something bad everyone points a finger at h/s.
Also in my opinion the Catholic church has perverted the faith beyond belief. They do believe in Jesus and the Bible but thats not the only thing they believe in. They think that the pope is holy, no way. The only person to be Holy was Jesus. The Catholic church has strayed from the original rule book, the Bible and made up their own rule books, that they put just as much value on. Wrong the supreme law is the Bible, period. That was one of the reasons for the Reformation. Luther and other saw the corruption that existed in the church and realised that it was no longer following God, thus the Protestant church.
Christianity is a religion. I don't know where you got this from, M54, but the idea of it not being a religion is absurd.
Its a relationship with Christ as a personal Savior.
And Luc is doing the right thing. Interpreting the Bible for himself. If you acknowledge the fact that there are metaphors in the Bible, he isn't doing anything wrong at all. He is not picking the bits he like - he's trying to fold an outdated text to fit modern problems. It can't be done by assuming that everything in the Bible is literal truth. It has already been proven false on far too many accounts.
I never said that interpreting the scripture was wrong. Yes we can look at the Bible and compare it to modern things. But we cannot twist it around until it makes us happy and says what we want it to say.
The Old Testament is barbaric. God kills women, kids and innocent people. He is outright violating his preachings in the New Testament. And it contains the worst hogwash known to date - the Genesis. This alone should be reason enough to disregard it completely as nonsense.
Technically no one is innocent. We all deserve what we get, we are sinners, no one but Christ was perfect. Its only by Christ that we do not get the Wrath of God. Thats not to say bad things never happen to Christians, God lets things happen for a reason and who are we to say any different.
Originally posted by Rogue_Ace
Also in my opinion the Catholic church has perverted the faith beyond belief. They do believe in Jesus and the Bible but thats not the only thing they believe in. They think that the pope is holy, no way. The only person to be Holy was Jesus. The Catholic church has strayed from the original rule book, the Bible and made up their own rule books, that they put just as much value on. Wrong the supreme law is the Bible, period.
And this makes you... a fundamentalist. No better than Muhammed Atta and his crew. Someone who would die for their God.
Listen, don't flame Catholics because they believe in something else than you. You're technically equally wrong, since none of you have succeeded in proving your postulations and beliefs with objective, empirical proof. And both of your doctrine's theories about the Bible being true has been nullified.
Its a relationship with Christ as a personal Savior.
Gah. According to 3 dictionaries, a religion is a belief in a god. That fits the bill. You are wrong. Or you are not speaking the same English as me.
I never said that interpreting the scripture was wrong. Yes we can look at the Bible and compare it to modern things. But we cannot twist it around until it makes us happy and says what we want it to say.
Yet Luc Solar did none of these things.
Technically no one is innocent.
Technically, none of you Christians have ever backed up your beliefs with facts. Like Maverick Knight said, you should be able to provide arguments and proofs of your religion. Applying circular reasoning on the Bible isn't proof of anything - IE you know the Bible is true because it tells you so, and you trust its postulations because you know its true. I cannot take this Christian lecture seriously until you do.
Yes I would die for my God. I would die for something that I have these convictions about. But I won’t blow myself up in a suicide bombing if that’s what you mean. But if someone put a gun to my head and asked me if I believed in God I would say yes. But don’t lump me in with those Psychos who blow themselves up.:(
And Cjais your right I cant show you any evidance that I'm right other than the Bible which you dont believe. I respect that. I do believe that I am right but its cool if you disagree with that :) . Its a thing I have thats called faith and I can only show it to you by my actions. I guess I was not doing a very good job at that with the whole Catholic thing. Sorry. :( As for the relationship thing its just a saying that my friends and I have :rolleyes: .
If anyone feals that I am flaming them I'm sorry that was not my intention at all, I was just stating what I believe.
Yet Luc Solar did none of these things.
Then it was my bad I misunderstood him.
Unfortunately I don't have time for a proper reply, but I'll just say this:
If someone thinks that they have insulted or flamed me in any way.... oh please! I can not find a single "flameish" comment in all those posts no matter how hard I look. So no need for apologies. :)
cjas you have a lot to learn about christianity, only a non christian could think of it that way.
unlike other religions you are not a christian for believing.
This is why people who believe because there parents are christians are not christians.
and people are not christians because they were baptized.
this is why christianity is not a religion but a faith. A relationship with GOD.
Catholics turn "Christianity" into a religion, with all there rules and there holy water they loose sight of GOD and get focused on doing whatever the priest says and there inscence and there confessions. None of that is in the Bible. well it's in the catholic Bible, because the Catholic Bible has two books added to it. And adding to the Bible is wrong.
but do you even care, or would you rather ignorantly believe what you want to? Or would you know the truth?
If you think of christians as whoever says there a christian than Maralin Mansin could be a christian. But he's not.
you say who am I to say who a christian is, I'm only saying what GOD said.
I dont think that the Old Testament is horrible at all, have you ever read Psalms. Psalms contains some of the most beautify poetry ever written.
I give you this link:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty.html)
Browse the site a bit and tell me the OT is not horrible. Sure, there are really nice things there too - things that make you wonder if God isn't a vengeful psycho after all. But some of the stuff is simply disgusting. :(
Catholics,and Jehovah witnesses are not christians even though they call themselves christians.
Well...this does not help much. A believer of which ever religion can say for example: "You all are worshipping a false god. My God is the only real God. No I don't have any proof but I *know* it is true so you have to believe me."
Saying that seems silly in the eyes of someone who simply doesn't believe in the "magic" you do.
...just as saying mister X is holy but Mister Y (The Pope) isn't like it's a fact. (Btw - what the hell does "holy" mean anyways?)
...like saying: "Duh. You guys are so dumb. Everyone knows elves don't exist! Santa does all the work by himself! And only He can make the reindeers fly!
There's some things all religions have in common:
None of them can prove $hit, yet they all are 100% sure that only they are right while everyone else is wrong.
Seems kinda silly to me. :D
Technically no one is innocent. We all deserve what we get, we are sinners, no one but Christ was perfect. Its only by Christ that we do not get the Wrath of God.
This is one thing I can't understand. This whole story about every new born child being a sinner 'cause..what - Adam bit the apple? God won't judge us by our actions? He thinks we are sinners and should burn in hell because of something that happened thousands of years ago...something that we can in no way correct anymore?
Btw - I do believe Jesus sinned while hanging on that cross. But I guess it was understandable; I would have been sorta upset too. :)
What about the whole basis of Christianity: God sacrificed Jesus. Because Jesus died, we are all forgiven.
If you think about that for a moment, it makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!
WHY would he sacrifice his son? Couldn't he have forgiven mankind without doing that?
What good did it do? Did God think that he'll lay some sort of guilt trip on humans so that we'd behave?
What good did Jesus' death accomplish? He suffered and we got our sins forgiven, which God could have done anyways without horribly torturing his only son.
It all sounds great when a charismatic priest says it in a beautiful church with the choir singing in the backround, but... it makes no sense if you think about it.
To tough questions all religions have their patented answer, naturally: Who are we, puny humans, to criticize something all-powerful, all-knowing like God?
God knows best and if you don't "get it" you're just dumb.
Well, I for one have a problem with that.
Still.. I do consider myself a Christian. I'm living a good life and if I'll burn in hell, you can count on burning there with me. :D
M54: You can spare me the religious lectures. The Muslim religion is just as wrong as you are. I'm wrong too, but less, since I can actually make consistent theories with real, empirical proof beind them. Of course, I might be utterly wrong, but in the meantime, I'll be less wrong than you.
Your definition of "Christianity" is hilarious to non-believers, and incredibly nonsensic. You're going up against the English language here, and you simply cannot win this one.
Luc Solar: You seem to have it all figured out. Can I ask you a question on this? Why are you religious at all? :confused:
Wow I guess I got ot this thread a little late haha
Originally posted by Rogue_Ace
No one ever said that life as a Christian is a "bed of roses." But I would not have it any other way.
Ahh but it is a bed of roses... it's just that roses have thorns. :) Thats what makes the going tough. But once those thorns break off, it is even more than a bed of roses. It is something so beautiful it cannot be expressed in words.
I am a Christian, I go to a great youth group and here are my opinions on some of the things said...
Originally posted by Luc Solar
This whole story about every new born child being a sinner 'cause..what - Adam bit the apple? God won't judge us by our actions?
Btw - I do believe Jesus sinned while hanging on that cross. But I guess it was understandable; I would have been sorta upset too. :)
What about the whole basis of Christianity: God sacrificed Jesus. Because Jesus died, we are all forgiven.
If you think about that for a moment, it makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!
WHY would he sacrifice his son? Couldn't he have forgiven mankind without doing that?
OK where to start... God does not believe that newborn babys are sinners... I don't see where you are getting this assumption from. Only when they are old enough to understand that they are doing something wrong can they sin.
Why do you believe that Jesus sinned? Can you show me some evidence in the Bible that Jesus sinned while hanging on the cross... in fact he did the exact opposite. He prayed to God to forgive the people who were doing this. Here is the actual scripture...
From Luke 23:34 "Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
God sacrificed his son not because it would lay a guilt trip on people, but to show us that he really did care. He sacrificed the perfect being, all for humans who sinned thousands of times daily. He did this becaue it is the only way it would let us know that he really did care about us. To sacrifice ones son or daughter must be a terrible thing but God did it becuae he loved us, and Jesus did it becuase he loved us. He loves us more than anyone in the world could even come close to.
And Cjais I understnad where you're coming from but I just wanna say something. Like other people said, Christianity is not a religion. It is a personal, one-on-one relationship with God. Ohter religions might require someone to go to church a certain amount of times or pray for a certain amount of hours but God wants none of this. He only wants us to love, respect, serve and fear him. I do not fear God like I should. You don't have to go to church to be a Christian and thats what makes Christianity special. Going to church helps you become closer to God, meet other followers, and learn about Gods word. But if you truly believe that God is your personal savior and would do anything for you. If you believe that you are a sinner, are not worthy of being with God but will do anything to help become more worthy (committing your life to him) and ask him to come into your heart and make it your temple, then He will grow within you and take you on a journey of a lifetime that you will never forget, as long as you stay true to him. God does not care how long you pray for or how many times a week you go to church. If you can give 15 minutes out of your busy day to speak, one on one with him in real, personal prayer. If you can make that connection with God and serve him as best you can. If you can tell other people about His word and stay true to your committment, that is all He wants.
Sorry it was a little long. :)
OK where to start... God does not believe that newborn babys are sinners
I'm not exactly sure which "sects" of christianity believe in this. But it is said however, that even newborns are "tainted". I do not know the right term for this in english, though... :( ( The Basic Sin? That's what it's called in Finnish)
Why are you religious at all?
Since I'm already late from work, I can't answer your question Cjais. :D
I'll try to figure that out at work. It's not like I'd be using my brain there anyways.. :D
When you walk around the streets you don't see anything religious. Go to Islamic or Hindu countries and you see the difference. There everything is controlled by religion: what you wear, where you can go and with whom, what you're allowed to do and when/with whom/where, what you can eat, what you can say etc. etc. etc.
...
Can christianity even be considered a religion anymore?
Are you saying that it is the clothes you wear and daily rituals you perform that make a relgion?
This is what Jesus critisized of the Pharisees. They dress up in their robes praying on the street corners proclaiming how much better they are to the others. However, the law was not created so that they may have [i]pride]i].
Its all material. I even think a church is just a building with four walls and a roof. Its not the church or going to one that makes you Christian either. One of my friends was shocked when he saw what I was wearing to church. It really doesn't matter. You don't need money to buy good clothes to go to church or be Christian. It's not important.
Its your belief in Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour who died on the cross for your sins that makes you Christian. None of that material stuff matters in my opinion.
Catholics are just as much Christian as you are. No less. They believe in Christ and the Bibler, ergo the are Christians. This cannot be debated, or you'll have to pervert the current language.
Read Ephesians Chapter 2. Read the books of Timothy, read the New Testament. Now go and read the Catholic Catechism, do you notice the differences?
Bible: You are saved by faith alone not by good works. (read Ephesians 2)
Catechism: You are saved by good works and faith.
Bible: There is only one mediator between man and God. Jesus Christ.
Catechism: St Mary is the mediatrix.
I've been to both Protestant and Catholic churches. Catholic church they pray to Mary to save their souls then they pray to Jesus to save their souls. They also pray to a statue of Mary. Why don't they pray to a golden calf? Would that be idolism then?
They are a people torn between the Catholic church beliefs and the bible. That is my personal experience.
Catholic church also believes that the Pope is inerrical (can not be wrong). I believe that the world does orbit around the sun. Am I a heretic? The Popes been wrong many a time, yet it is still absolute truth? He prays to a statue of Mary each day. Is that Christian, does the bible say to do that? I am not silly. Why should I believe in Mary when the bible says Jesus. Why should I believe both? Which is Christian. The one who believes in Christ or Mary?
I have personal eperience over the course of a year weekly with the Roman Catholic church. I can't see how they believe what the bible says. The new testament does not supercede the old testament but fulfills it.
Just some other stuff I'd like to add from what I've read on this thread.
Holy means Seperated.
CJAIS, Christians can use their definition of Christianity, you can use yours. Don't really care if you have ten different dictionaries. Means nothing to me. ;)
To everyone,
I think when you start talking about 'I'm right your wrong' you should state precisely why. Like original sin. I'm right your wrong but I won't say why. Means nothing. :)
Your definition of "Christianity" is hilarious to non-believers, and incredibly nonsensic. You're going up against the English language here, and you simply cannot win this one.
Whats so funny? BTW, do I get something if I win this one. Didn't know prizes were being handed out?? :D
Christian people, listen up.
Christianity is a religion.
1. a)Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b)A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
Your religion falls under them all. There is no doubt about it, but you can call your religion whatever you want, as long as you realize it's also a religion.
The reason why you can't simply have your definition of it, is because by doing so, you place Christianity above and beyond other religions (which is plain false). This could lead to some very messy situations if every Christian got that idea, since you're the largest religion in the western world. Christianity is a religion, similar to others.
I know why you like to state this, though. Every religion is scared at acknowledging other religions. They like to pretend they don't exist. They like to pretend that other people haven't gotten the same bright idea as them, and wrote down some perfectly clear dogmas.
If I should give a valid reason why I'm not religious, I'd say "Look at the world. Which religion is more right than others? They all look very good on paper, that's for sure, but so far I haven't seen any evidence of people getting into heaven for believing in just this religion."
Now, Christian:
n 1 A person who believes in the teachings of Christ or belongs to a Christian church.
adj 1 [no comp.] (Believing in or belonging to any of the branches of Christianity.)
No doubt here as well. Within the Christian church, there's a subdivision of protestantic and catholic Christians. You can call them bad Christians all you want, but they're still technically Christians. And please stop with the flamy stereotyping - I know for a fact that there are Catholic Christians visiting these forums, and this could well escalate into something unpleasant.
We need some clear-cut definitions folks. To a colorblind person, red might look like something else, but to those not seeing as him, red is objectively defined. And last time I checked Christianity still hasn't convinced over half the world to believe in what they do. Therefore, perverting the English language to suit your needs isn't a viable option for you. You cannot do this.
I think when you start talking about 'I'm right your wrong' you should state precisely why. Like original sin. I'm right your wrong but I won't say why. Means nothing.
This is an excellent idea. I propose you go right ahead and explain to us just why we should believe in your religion. Sure, it makes us feel good, and I can't really argue with the holy Bible, but if I were to look at it in a objective, rational way - why should I believe?
Whats so funny?
You're right. It's not funny. It's starting to get downright scary. I've read of several who would die for Christ, and happily take pain in his place. Yet they still insist they're different and better than the WTC suicide bombers. You're not. If your religion was on retreat, your country on the brink of devastation, I can assure you all that many Christians would without a second of doubt kill themselves in the name of Christ to save everything they believed. It's happened before, and it can damn well happen again. Your religion is no better than others when it comes to this.
I've read of several who would die for Christ, and happily take pain in his place. Yet they still insist they're different and better than the WTC suicide bombers. You're not. If your religion was on retreat, your country on the brink of devastation, I can assure you all that many Christians would without a second of doubt kill themselves in the name of Christ to save everything they believed. It's happened before, and it can damn well happen again. Your religion is no better than others when it comes to this.
To what point would killing ourselves accomplish anything. Christians believe that sucide is a sin and is wrong in Gods eyes. Killing ourselves would solve noting. Our religion is much better than others when it comes to this.
Your religion falls under them all. There is no doubt about it, but you can call your religion whatever you want, as long as you realize it's also a religion.
Yes, Christianity falls under the dictionary definition of religion but to believes it is something more. But you are correct it fits under the definition of religion.
I'm not exactly sure which "sects" of christianity believe in this. But it is said however, that even newborns are "tainted". I do not know the right term for this in english, though... ( The Basic Sin? That's what it's called in Finnish)
Yes all are born into sin. Meaning that yes we are born impure. But until you reach the age that you realise the difference between right and wrong you will not be sent to hell. I think that was what Reborn Outcast was getting at. But yes because of the original sin in the garden of edan all babies are born impure.
Still.. I do consider myself a Christian. I'm living a good life and if I'll burn in hell, you can count on burning there with me.
I do want to warn you that according to the Bible you cannot get into heavan on works alone. Eternal life comes from a relationship with Christ and Christ alone. Not that works are a bad thing, they are centeral to any Christians walk, but they are not the source of salvation.
The reason why you can't simply have your definition of it, is because by doing so, you place Christianity above and beyond other religions (which is plain false).
Yes we do place Christianity above other religions because we believe that it is the only true one. We believe that the only way to heavan is through Christ not Budda, Mohammad or any other.
Originally posted by Rogue_Ace
Yes all are born into sin. Meaning that yes we are born impure. But until you reach the age that you realise the difference between right and wrong you will not be sent to hell. I think that was what Reborn Outcast was getting at. But yes because of the original sin in the garden of edan all babies are born impure.
Yes that is what I was trying to say. God will not send someone to hell until they understand the difference between right and wrong.
Originally posted by Cjais
The reason why you can't simply have your definition of it, is because by doing so, you place Christianity above and beyond other religions (which is plain false). This could lead to some very messy situations if every Christian got that idea, since you're the largest religion in the western world. Christianity is a religion, similar to others.
I don't mean to sound ignorant or high and mighty (and I don't want to offend anyone) but it is above all other religions because it is the only one that leads to Heaven. All others do not.
Originally posted by Cjais
And last time I checked Christianity still hasn't convinced over half the world to believe in what they do.
And neither has any other religion last time I checked. But the people turning to the Christian faith are many.
wheather christianity is a religion or a faith then depends on each christian individually. there are many different kinds. So from that perspective, you have to be more exact. you cant just say christianity as a whole, you have to be more precise.
some forms of christianity are faiths some are religions. the religious ones are more often the hipocrytical ones.
Myself. I am a BAPTIST. a baptist christian goes by faith and not religiouse rules.
from the worlds aspect of what christianity is I'm almost ashamed to call myself one. I think I'll just call myself a follower of christ then.
And yes my GOD is real yours is not!
You know what christianity needs. PERSACUTION! where christians are persacuted and it is unpopular to be a christian, that is where you find the "real" christians.
like ancient roman times.
oooooooo our faith falls under some catagories as other religions. wopty frikin doo.
that doesnt make it a religion.
Christianity is above and beyond other religions, it's the only true one. Thats what we believe. You cant believe more than one, no one can, you would be contradicting yourself.
wheather babys go to hell or heaven I'm not sure, I think if a baby dies it goes to hell.
even if it's baptized, a little sprinkle or submersion doesnt change anything.
I've heard scripture to support and contradict this belief, it is hard to interperate the Bible sometimes. But I am more convinced of the scripture that contradicts it.
Was your dictionary written by a christian cjas?
holy doesnt mean separated, Is God separated? NO!
holy is like righteouse and all that is good and stuff. geeze.
Christianity, at least my christianity, is not about pleasing people, or making people feel comfortable, ooooo we don't want scare people away from our church oooo nooooo.
Its about TRUTH.
Buy dieing for our religion we're not talking about suicide, at least I'm not. I'm talking about roman days and nazzi and stuff, like when they say "if you deny GOD and say your not a chistian you will live if you still profess to this foolish religion we will throw you to the lions"
then I say "I am a christian" then they kill ya.
that's what I'm talking about not suicide. Man you just don't get it.
WOW! This is my favorite subject!
Also being a former Youth Pastor, I would love to sit in a conference call with all of you to hear if the passion is in your voice as much as it is in your posts. Not a heated yelling match, that is where wars stem from, but a civilized sharing of opinions that hopefully would enlighten all of us to our diversity.
I stumbled on this post by accident and am short on time for now, but I will say this to hold you over.... get away from two words.... "christian" and "religion" :eek:
Yes, for this reason...they are a hinderance to the real issue. Salvation.
I was not raised in a christian or religious home, nor was I in any tragic circumstance, but one day I accepted that God was real. I did not name Him i.e. Ala, Buddha, Mohommed, etc, I just knew I had been created and the Creator was speaking to me deep inside. I listened. I cried. I still cry. I accepted that Jesus was real that day.
Perhaps not having all of the "religious" teachings in my upbringing helped me here. I did not have to struggle with making a decision of whether or not I believed. I just did. I could have been alone on an Island somewhere, and the creator would have still spoken to me.
I received salvation that day by admitting to God that I was a sinner, and asked Jesus to come into my heart. My life has had many ups and downs since that day (20+ years ago) but one thing that has never changed.....the Creator speaks to me, and I listen. I don't always like what He says, but I listen. We all listen. What actions we take after we listen is what defines our "religion". That is why there are so many different ones, we all take different actions.
I do not believe there is one sole correct version of religion, the closest I find in line with what I believe is Pentecostal.
I do believe however that there is one sole correct version of salvation.-----"I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except by me" - Jesus
When I have some time I have insight to the questions raised above which I would like to share. Until then, one other quote-
Above all, love eachother deeply, for love covers a multitude of sins"
I'm a Catholic Christian.
We do not pray to statues, or paintings. We do pray (defined, "To make a fervent request or entreaty", "To ask (someone) imploringly; beseech") that Mary and the other members of the Communion of Saints pray for us to God, "For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears turned to their prayer," (1Pet 3:12). And who is more righteous than those who have proceeded us into heaven? And on the cross, Jesus gave Mary to us as our mother, so we turn to her as a mother who loves us and who will go to bat for us with her Son.
We did not add two books to the Old Testament; the books you claim we added were included in the Septuagint, the Greek version of the Old Testament translated from the Hebrew between 300 and 130 B.C. and used by the early Church; these books were removed (after the fall of Jerusalem) to foil the early Christians who used them as proof of life after death, specifically Macabees which says, "...for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death..." (2Mac, 12: 44)
We do believe in the Real Presence, as the Church has since 33A.D. Read the early Church documents, the Didache and the letters of the first several successors to Peter, read the Apology of St. Justin Martyr to the Emperor Marcus Aurelius from the second century. Read John 6, and the 1st Letter to the Corinthians, in which Paul says, "Whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord... For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself." (1Cor, 11: 27, 29)
Christians have always gathered together, "They devoted themselves to the teachings of the Apostles and to the communal life, to the breaking of the bread and to the prayers." (Acts, 2:42). The Apostles were their authorities, and the Apostles ordained people to follow after them as Priests to continue to guide and "feed the flock" after their deaths. The Popes can be traced back, in an unbroken line, from John Paul II to Simon Peter. Yes, not every Pope may have been a good person, strictly speaking, but one of the disciples that Jesus himself chose betrayed him to his death! The wheat will grow along with the weeds until the harvest. And no Pope is infallible unless he is speaking ex cathedra.
We listen to the readings, from the Old Testament, the Psalms, the Epistles and the Gospels, and we recite the Nicene Creed (circa 325 A.D.); we baptize in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit, as Jesus instructed, and we believe that Jesus is God and died to save us from our sins.
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, Our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilatem was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He arose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.
We are Christians.
Mandalorian 54, you should move to Indonesia, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, China, and other Middle Eastern countires. Sounds like you really would love to live at those places.
Jedi Monk, if God chose the first Pope (St Peter) who was a married man, why is it forbidden for the Pope then to marry?
Also, I was speaking from experience, while I did not personally take part in praying before statues and such because I do not believe we are supposed to. From what was going on, it seemed to contradict the bible.
We do not pray to statues, or paintings. We do pray (defined, "To make a fervent request or entreaty", "To ask (someone) imploringly; beseech") that Mary and the other members of the Communion of Saints pray for us to God, "For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears turned to their prayer," (1Pet 3:12). And who is more righteous than those who have proceeded us into heaven? And on the cross, Jesus gave Mary to us as our mother, so we turn to her as a mother who loves us and who will go to bat for us with her Son.
I'm curious as to why we need Mary to go to her Son for us. Can she change his mind? That is honestly not said in a sarcastic tone. I'm actually curious as to why the Catholic church believes it is necessary or even possible to talk to Jesus through Mary. Why not just speak directly to Jesus the guy who gets you into heaven. Dont get me wrong Mary was a special person to say the least but she was just that, a person. No more perfect than you or I and definatly not Holy, she was just a human, sinful as you or I.
I'll write more later when I have time
BTW Holy- seperated or set-apart, in the sence that God is set apart from us in that he is perfect and w/o flaw, not seperated in the sence of not being able to effect the things in our life.
OK, first off, I don't know what dictionary some people are using, but mine says
-Christian
adj.
1.Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2.Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
3.Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
4.Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
n.
1.One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2.One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus
I don't see "religion" in there anywhere.
"Religion" is following all of the rules and rituals. "Religion" is standing around the cross.(I'm not saying that all religions involve the cross, but making Christianity into a religion instead of a belief is just following the code)
Christianity is a Faith, a lifestyle, of following Christ because of what he sacrificed for us on the cross to allow us to be forgiven.Christianity is taking up your cross and following Jesus (Matthew 10:38)
Also, many people are Christians because of people doing what they are supposed to by witnessing, being missionaries, and sharing the Word of God, not because of their parents.
I also think that "interpreting" the Bible into your own version is wrong. God put what he put there for a reason. If he says "no sex outside of marriage" then that is what he means, not "unless your using protection" or "only if it's for fun" the Bible says"no", and making it say what you want it to is making your own faith, you could say that God says killing is good if you acted like that.
Also, by giving your life to Jesus we don't mean to give it in a suicide bombing, we mean that if you have to die in Christ's name, that you will do it, but not dying when it goes against God's laws of not killing (yourself and others included). A Christian should do all things to glorify God, and God won't reward you for going against his Word, no matter what your intentions are "Vengence will be mine, I will repay, sayeth the Lord" (Romans 12:19), he doesn't expect you to kill others in his name, and that is what seperates us from the Taliban, and other extremist groups.
Well anyway, thats my thoughts, and I wasn't really attacking anyone (or at least didn't mean to), I understand that we're all different, and that your opinion is as equal as mine, but I wish that you would listen to Christians, because my belief is that if you don't, that you are doomed to eternity in Hell, and I wouldn't want anyone to end up there because Heaven is so easy, and so much better than the alternative.
Originally posted by Rogue_Ace
To what point would killing ourselves accomplish anything. Christians believe that sucide is a sin and is wrong in Gods eyes. Killing ourselves would solve noting. Our religion is much better than others when it comes to this.
Not really. Did you know that Islam has much the same values as your Christianity? It may surprise you to find that they also do not like killing, and that suicide is also a sin in their eyes.
No big religion likes killing, because it's so obivious that it's not a good thing.
Christianity has commited genocide on a huge scale. Christians have killed innocent women and children in a grand display of religious affection. Islam has done the same. They're both equally bad.
But you are correct it fits under the definition of religion.
Thank you. You can call your religion whatever you want, as long as you realize that it's a religion.
M54, what exactly is the difference between a "religion" and a "faith"? If you like persecutions, go on and start to preach your god in Islamic countries. Die for your God like the missionary who was shot down there and be happy. I am on the verge of not taking your seriously at all.
Yes all are born into sin.
Until you can prove that to a completely objective bystander with no religious affiliations it is not fact.
We believe that the only way to heavan is through Christ not Budda, Mohammad or any other.
Watch where you're going. It's clear you do not know anything about Buddhism nor Islam.
I also think that "interpreting" the Bible into your own version is wrong. God put what he put there for a reason.
Can you prove that? No? Then you're free to interpret a piece of text the way you want to.
I don't see "religion" in there anywhere.
If you'd care to look, you'd see that religion is written two places there. Try running a search for "Christianity" and "religion" and you'll see some more.
but I wish that you would listen to Christians, because my belief is that if you don't, that you are doomed to eternity in Hell
Did you know that I am, in fact, God? I'm sure you'd like to see proof of that, which is why I've conveniently written on this piece of paper that "Cjais is God". Go on, believe such nonsense, you know you want to.
I've written here that anyone not following my standards, my universal codex of morality, my legions of believers shall forevermore be tormented and experience the infinite pain of a thousand hordes of grotesque demons in hell. Your skin shall be stripped off and serve as my coat. Your brain shall fry and your mind shall despair from looking at Me. You shall know true terror if you do not bow to my ever vigilant eye.
I'm sure you don't want that. I'm sure you'll all follow me, now since I've now shown you what happens if you defy my rule. See the faulty logic? I'm sure you do.
I'm glad a Catholic Christian took up the call and showed you Protestantic Christians that I wasn't wrong.
Ah, the firm believe of Cjaisism :P
A couple of things I'd like to say to some folks:
1: If you are indeed Christian, do not tell someone blatantly that they are going to hell, and shal burn and get eaten by some sort of zombies, while getting tarred and feathered by angered colonists. That will not help them change their views at all. ;)
2: Take into consideration what others say, and try to se it from their point of view before you flair off.
___________________
Ok, now that that is out of the way..... ;)
Originally posted by Cjais
Watch where you're going. It's clear you do not know anything about Buddhism nor Islam.
Ah but I do.
Islam:
Founder: Muhammad (570?-632). About A.D. 610, in Mecca and Medina. Headquaters in Mecca, Suadi Arabia. Main sects: Sunni, Shi'ite.
Writings: Qur'an (Koran), scripture in Arabic. Hadith (Muhammad's words and deeds). Biblical Law of Moses, Psalms, and Gospel of Jese (the Injil) accepted by Qur'an, but considered by Muslims to be "corrupted".
God: God (Allah) is one. God revealed the Qur'an to Muhammad through the angel Gabriel. God is a severe judge (though sometimes merciful) and is not depicted as loving.
Jesus: Jesus was born of a virgin but is not the Son of God.
Other Beliefs: Followers are called Muslims. Go to the mosque for prayers, sermons and counsel. Holy efforts to spread Islam (jihad).
Five Pillars of Islam: Confess that Allah is the one true God and that Muhammad is his prophet. Pray five times daily facing Mecca. Give alms (money). Fast during the month of Ramadan. Make pilgrimage to Mecca (once in a lifetime).
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As you can see Cjais, they think that Jesus is not the Son of God and that Muhammed was the divine prophet. They think the Bible is corrupted. They do not even see Allah (God) as loving. That is not the way to heaven.
Now...
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Buddihsm
Founder: Buddha (Siddhartha Gautama). Founded about 525 B.C. in India. Offshoot of Hinduism.
Writings: The Tripitaka (Three Baskets), which has more than 100 volumes.
God: Buddhism is mostly atheistic. Many Buddhists do not believe in God or a Supreme Being of any kind.
Others speak of the Buddha as a universal elightened consciousness or as a god.
Jesus: Jesus Christ is not part of this belief. Buddhists in the West generally view Jesus as an enlightened man.
Holy Spirit: Holy Spirit is not part of this belief.
Salvation: Goal of life is nirvana, to eliminate all desires or cravings, and in this way escape suffering. The Eightfold Path is a system to free Buddhists rom desiring anything.
Death: People do not have a soul or spirit. However, one's desires or feelings may be reincarnated into another person. No Heaven or hell.
Other Beliefs: Eightfold path recommends right knowledge, intentions, speech, conduct, livelihood, right effort, mindfulness, and meditation. Some Buddhist groups talk about an eternal Buddha (life force).
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That is NOT the way to go to Heaven. They do not even believe in Jesus. Not even God.
Originally posted by Jedi_Monk
The majority are probably protestant converts, but there are many from non-Christian lifestyles who have decided to join the Church.
The fastest growing religion in the Western World is Buddhism. Not that it matters really...
Originally posted by Jedi_Monk
And if the passage of traditions from parent to child were outlawed, it would hardly be a free society.
We are not talking about traditions in general, we're talking about religious brainwash. If religion was outlawed, we would have a much more free society, after the adaption was completed.
Originally posted by Jedi_Monk
But the New Testament supercedes the old for Christians, which is why the Church is against the death penalty
The Church is against capital punishment because the Church has been beaten soundly for the last few centuaries. May I remind you of the Crusades and the Inquisition? Torture, murder, and genocide on a massive scale was glorified by the Church.
Originally posted by Jedi_Monk
I go to youth group after Mass
"I go to youth group youth anti sex league after Mass Two Minutes' Hate"
(Youth anti sex league and Two Minutes' Hate are Orwellian concepts used for the oppression of the population.)
Everything happens for a reason and although you may not see it now i'm sure that God will reveal it to you in the future.
Such a "master plan" would mean that humans have no free will. We have. Therefore there can be no "master plan".
I know that those words are not really that comforting but thats life
False. Stick to facts, they'll serve you better, unless you want to oppress somone.
I do not question my own faith
Yet you question your Presidente... What is the big difference.
I believe in Jesus, and stick w/the morals that are taught in the Bible.
Which morals? The Bible contradicts itself in multiple places. Do you just pick and choose? Or are you skitzo in order to go with all of it?
I prefer to let my actions speak louder than words when it comes to the 'preaching the gospel' part.
More power to that veiw.
Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
Which morals? The Bible contradicts itself in multiple places. Do you just pick and choose? Or are you skitzo in order to go with all of it?
Show me where it contridicts itself, and I will provide some sort of explanation. :)
Yes please Shadow.. I would love to see what you find because there will be some sort of explanation.
Originally posted by Luc Solar
The Old Testament is horrible. It is barbaric, cruel, prejudiced. The Old Testament is a symbol for the very opposite of what *my* God and *my* faith represents.
The New&Old Testaments are horrible. They are barbaric, cruel, prejudiced. The New&Old Testament are a symbol for the very opposite of sanity.
Originally posted by Luc Solar
The Old Testament symbolises the sort of religion that is the root of all evil.
Mind your wording. I'm not saying that you mean it that way, but Hitler said pretty much the same thing. Again, I'm not saying that you mean it that way (you probably don't given the rest of your post)...
Originally posted by Luc Solar
* waiting for a bolt of lightning to strike me down *
Okay. Phew!
I have committed blasphemy on numerous occations, and I have yet to feel the gentle carress of a bolt of lightning striking my head on a sunny day...
Originally posted by Luc Solar
If you look at the Talebans or other highly religious communities, you see what I'm, talking about.
Keywords: "Highly religious communities".
Originally posted by Luc Solar
"Only WE are righteous [...]
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. John 10:27-28
Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost its savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out and trodden under foot of men. Matt 5:13
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast your pearls before the swine, lest haply they trample them under their feet, and turn and rend you. Matt 7:6
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Matt 7:19
After this manner therefore pray ye. Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth. Matt 6:9-10 (own italisation)
(According to the American Standard Bible (you need to standardize the Bible? What does that say about its credibility?).)
You were saying?
Originally posted by Luc Solar
Hmmm.. enough about that.
I thought so...
Originally posted by Luc Solar
The new Testament is a whole different story however.
See above.
Originally posted by Luc Solar
It's a great book with lots of info that is still useful.
So is Havamбl. In fact perhaps even more so. What makes the Bible so special?
Originally posted by Luc Solar
I just don't think that one should take it literally.
Well, gee... Why even take it seriously?
Originally posted by Luc Solar
An example:
The bible says: No sex before marriage.
What *I* think the bible says here is this:
[...]
But instead the Bible says: "No sex before marriage period"
I think you overestemate Jesus. After all, he was just a common terrorist.
Originally posted by Luc Solar
Times have changed. The point is still valid, but it needs to be interpreted differently now that things have changed (contraceptives etc.).
But by interpreting the point you have actually changed it to: "You can have sex as long as it is safe and no-one gets hurt."
Originally posted by Luc Solar
My god is not the god of Israel or the god of Christians. Simply the fact that we have so many religions in the world proves in a way the fact that none of us is right.
More power to that veiw. Nothing is right, only more or less wrong (and rationalism has a way of being very little wrong).
Originally posted by Luc Solar
But what I do know is that no damn god takes every drop of community wine and changes it to the blood of a person who allegedly lived some 2000 years ago.
[...]
God must have better things to do.
LOL. If God is so omnipotent as the Bible states, then it must have had better things to do that creating man.
Originally posted by Luc Solar
Perhaps God has given us guidelines, codes that we should strive to live by. But ATM a certain code is passй. It can not be taken literally anymore. That is my opinion.
Then why make the guideline a god-given law in the first place?
Originally posted by Luc Solar
Religion is the root of all evil in the hands of men. How many wars have we fought that would have been prevented if no religion existed? How much hate and suffering would disappear this day if suddenly the whole world would turn Buddhist?
Think about it.
More power to that veiw. But, while still harmless compaired to Judaism and its offshots, Buddhism actually has had wars of faith. Still, fair point.
Originally posted by obi-wan13
Show me where it contridicts itself, and I will provide some sort of explanation. :)
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/)
It's all there, and in plain english too (exept the Bible quotes which are in not-so-plain english).
This is from that website:
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1:16 God makes two lights: "the greater light [the sun] to rule the day, and the lesser light [the moon] to rule the
night." But if God made the moon to "rule the night", then why does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky?
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I'm sorry but that is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. The sun does rule the daytime. The moon does not so it makes no sense to ask why it moves through the daytime sky... but once the sun goes down then the moon does rule the night. I'm sorry but that is just an example of a person trying very hard to prove that the Bible is wrong. Thats not facts or contradictions, its just someone trying to be smart.