I wouldn't open up the sleeves too much more then they already are. If you do, it might end up looking like the sleeves on Toonces Sidious/Palpatine model... with the sleeves defying gravity pointing straight back instead of hanging down. Since there is no way to animate fabric in the JO engine, I suggest not making the sleeves so big they look ridiculous (as is the case in Toonces otherwise excellent model).
-Anakin
If you do, it might end up looking like the sleeves on Toonces Sidious/Palpatine model... with the sleeves defying gravity pointing straight back instead of hanging down.
KevinCoyle: Yeah, when I said refer to it, I didn't mean to make it look the same. When you look through the reference pics, you'll see that the robe sleeves are indeed baggier than you have them. It's your call though as to whether or not you want to change it.
You should have seen how disasterous it was trying to "trick" the skeleton in an attempt to animate the sleves on Palp. Even using some of the lowest possible weight settings it looked horendous.
The only way to solve the problem is to either have gravity defying sleeves, or model the sleeves as close to the skeleton as possible.
Keo, How's this? I modified the hood (On the hood-down version only so far) to the screenshots you sent. Look any better?
BenRobedfull2.jpg (
http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benrobedfull2.jpg)
Yes, it is better. The textures however need to be more crisp or the shading more distinctive.
Edit: Kevin, you may want to model that hood in there instead.
BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wasn't that a little unnecessary, Frendon? This thread isn't that far down...
what an improvement. much better kevin.
Originally posted by JEDI_Anakin_S
Wasn't that a little unnecessary, Frendon? This thread isn't that far down...
so what? i want it to be the first in the page what's wrong with that? BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Question for Toonces, when you segmented the emperor model, how did you work out the segmentation of the knees?, or did you not segment those parts at all. I don't believe I've ever seen the emporer or the Tuscan Raider cut along the knee when using dismemberment
I believe its done by segmenting only at the knee joint, thus allowing the leg to fall free from the robes when dismembered.
Kevin,
sorry if you've already gone over this, but are you planning on adding facial animations? that'd definitely top it off.
I actually segmented him a little under the pelvis. The whole area from the pelvis down to the floor became the hips. I also made caps for just the legs. So when he gets dismembered at one of the legs just his boots fall out. I'll make a little diagram if you wanna see it.
I've fixed the hood and worked on making the textures sharper so they're not so blurry. I think it looks better now, I don't have any screenshots yet but will soon.
I've got unrobed ben in the game and he looks good for the most part except for the legs, I'm having trouble getting the robe around the legs to deform correctly. I'd appreciate any tips from anyone who's had experience with weighting long robes or dresses.
As far as facial animations go, I think I want to get the model in game and release it first, then maybe I'll release a second version will facial animations.
try studying the emperor model, that seems to work quite nicely:vsd: :vsd: :vsd: :holosid:
I'd have to have a copy of the original .max file for the emperor (if it was made in 3dsmax) to see how the vertices are weighted
Shoot me an e-mail Kevin, I'd be more than happy to send you the max file. What version of max are you using?
toonces@drivingcatstudios.com
Oh, the facial animations are easy, that's also setup in the max file, really simple to do
Just sent the e-mail, thanks man! I really appreciate it.
heh, I'm just happy to help :) Rigging anything out of the ordinary in JKII is a pain in the neck, hopefully it'll be a good refrence for you.
Anyway, he's on his way
Here are a few Screenshots of Ben in the game, ignore the gloves he's wearing, I forgot to texture his hand before I put him in the game, so I just slaped on Kyle's textures for now. I'll skin his hands properly after I fix a few animation problems.
BenIngame 1 (
http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/beningame1.jpg)
BenIngame2 (
http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/beningame2.jpg)
Thanks to Toonces for lending me his emporer model, I've managed to fix most of the problems with the legs. The only problem left is that his boots clip through the front of the robe when you view him running forward. It seems no matter what I try it doesn't change much. I noticed Major Clod's Tusken Raider has a similar problem. I think the only reason the emporer doesn't have this problem is because his robe is much wider at the bottom, but Ben starts looking funny if I make his robe to wide. Here some screenshots of the leg problem in both Ben and Major Clod's tusken model.
BenRunning1 (
http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benrun1.jpg)
BenRunning2 (
http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benrun2.jpg)
Tusken1 (
http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/tusken1.jpg)
tusken2 (
http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/tusken2.jpg)
I'd appreciate any ideas that any of you may have.
You'll also notice his hands clip the sleeves a little also, but I don't think that will be a problem to fix, I just haven't gotten around to it yet because I'm still focused on fixing the legs.
I'm also considering removing the modeled tabbards for skinned ones, the modeled ones really don't look right and clip way too much when he moves, but I'd like to get some other opinions before I proceed. Here are a few reasons why I think this will benefit the model
1. Old ben's tabards are much thinner and looser than the Jedi from the newer movies, they pretty much lay flat on his robe except when he walks, and since clothing can't be animated in JK2 anyway, thats kind of makes it pointless anyway.
2.because his tabards are so thin unlike the other jedi, the robe behind them shows through too easily which really looks bad in game.
Here is a screenshot
bentabarderror (
http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/bentabarderror.jpg)
I may be able to fix this but it's going to take quite some time, I've already spent a lot of time trying to get it to work to no avail. The model looked better in 3d max with modelled tabards but I think ingame it will look better with skinned ones, but let me know what you all think.
Ok, KevinCoyle, here's my two cents on the robe issue. If you look at the Mon Mothma model in-game you will notice that the movements of the legs and robe are less extreme than the other characters. The legs do not move apart as much when she is running. I have been able to get this effect with my Joruus model. I weight the legs and feet to their respective bones, then I select all the vertices of the legs and feet and weight them 50% (.5) to the pelvis. This restricts the movement of the robe and feet and they don't move around as much. It usually solves all clipping issues. Hope this helps.
Cool, I'll have to try that out, I'll let you know how it turns out. Toonces Emporer model had the back of the robe weighted almost completly to the pelvis, which works well for that model because it gives the appearence that his robe is dragging along behind him because it is very large. I was planning I doing the same for Bens outer robed but his inner robe is to close to his legs for that to look right
I have no problem with you tossing out the modeled tabards. They detract from the model if they clip like they're doing. I would like to see more detail in the brown turtleneck, it just looks like flat brown... doesn't really look like cloth, and it looks out of place. It's too bright and shiny. Try to get the texture to look like wool or some other heavy fabric perhaps?
-Anakin
Yeah, that's a good idea you got there about the feet Darth, I didn't try anything like that for Palp, I should have though
For the robe version it might be worth segmenting the inner skirt, to a front and back segment, and removing the back half from the robed version with a .surf file.
It worked! Thanks Darth Vigrid, good idea.
I'll see what I can do about the turtleneck. I also need to work on the robe textures more. That is one of the other aspects of the model I didn't like after getting him in game. In levels with bright lighting, his robes appear more like plastic than cloth, especially in the death star level. I'll work on the textures to make them appear more like cloth and darken them so they don't shine too much.
hey guys, i see ur testing the model ingame already!! looks cool
so the model nears its completion....
*off topic*
do any of u guys want to film famous duels from starwars, like luke-vader, ben-vader, anakin-dooku??
if so, email me
:duel:
Kevin, any shots of the hood?
Kevin I have a suggestion,
its about the lightness of his inner robes. you see the problem I have is how the color white looks ingame. the lighting of the level makes the color white look almost fluoresent, glowing, it was one of my main problems with great models like Padme by Tetsuo and the Clone trooper. Im sure you could fix this by adding alittle more color to the robes.
just my two cents. great model.
Originally posted by §ith Lord
Kevin I have a suggestion,
its about the lightness of his inner robes. you see the problem I have is how the color white looks ingame. the lighting of the level makes the color white look almost fluoresent, glowing, it was one of my main problems with great models like Padme by Tetsuo and the Clone trooper.
Yes, §ith Lord brings out a very good point. You don't want the inner robes to glow in maps with alot of lighting (i.e. the Death Star).
hey kev its good to hear you fix the leg problem. i guess theres only a few touch ups left. so i'm thinkin is there a release date??????
Well, I thought I fixed the problem... When I tried it before after I applied Darth Vigrid's suggestion, the robe looked good, it didn't split anywhere and the legs didn't show through, I noticed the feet doing something funny but I thought it was just a small weighting problem. Unfortunatly, it's not a small problem. The legs don't deform right at all when weight 50% to the pelvis, and 50% to their respective bones, they skrink when the bone moves and huge spikes pop out in all directions and looks horrible. If I can't fix the problem soon I may post a screenshot to show the problem I'm having incase anyone else may know what it is.
if u dont mind my asking when will this be done
Originally posted by KevinCoyle
Well, I thought I fixed the problem... When I tried it before after I applied Darth Vigrid's suggestion, the robe looked good, it didn't split anywhere and the legs didn't show through, I noticed the feet doing something funny but I thought it was just a small weighting problem. Unfortunatly, it's not a small problem. The legs don't deform right at all when weight 50% to the pelvis, and 50% to their respective bones, they skrink when the bone moves and huge spikes pop out in all directions and looks horrible. If I can't fix the problem soon I may post a screenshot to show the problem I'm having incase anyone else may know what it is.
That's very strange. I haven't had any problems like that.
Kevin, what's the status? Have you fixed the problem? Are there any updated screenies?
-Anakin
No luck on fixing the problem yet, but I've been busy the past few days and haven't had a chance to work on it. Hopefully I'll fix the problem soon. I still have a few ideas to try.
Thanks. Was just wondering. Take your time.
LBuRNa that is one very sweet looking avatar you got there.
:D
LBurna, do you have SivyB's permission to use that avatar? He just made it, and it is nice, but i'm just making sure...
Figures people like u guys get dragged into a lame discussion like taht in a good thread then its closed plz get back on topic i doubt they would close this but u guys will start going and going
back to the model
this one is the BEST Vahl's anakin was good too but seems a tad bit too buff and the face here looks AWESOME nothing more nothing less
It's not a lame discussion. It would've been resolved in 2 posts - his and mine. This is an 'A'-'B' discussion so 'C' your way out.
jedi_anakin_s, sivy b is teaching me how to create custom avatars. for now since he changed his avatar sivy b is letting me use his old avatar. i ask him if he wanted to get credit for this awesome work he said no i din't have to.
everybody this is sivy b's avatar. so don't get it twisted. in a week or so i'll have my own.
That's what I figured. Sivy is very nice, and makes good avatars to boot.
hey jedi_anakin_s, how about this one, i made it. what you think.
Not bad... it looks a little squished, though (out of proportion)... did you shrink it correctly?
Sorry guys, Just been busy for a while, hopefully I'll have an update this weekend