Topics: Saddam's Execution & The U.S. Government
I am about to make a wierd prediction, and I hope that no-one will hate me for it. After listening to the news for the past few weeks, I began to realize a very scarry reality. Now, I am not saying for 100% fact that this will happen, but I am saying that it is a possibility. A few weeks ago, one of Saddam's half-borthers broke out of American custody. For several weeks now, I began to realize that Saddam may not meet his fate. I am beginning to think that somehow he will be sprung from custody, and then he will reign over Iraq again. Please, don't hate me, but I am getting a bad feeling about this.
One thing that keyed me off to this is a statement made. Someone went on record saying, "Iraq was better off under Saddam's control."
I hope I am dead wrong.
I may be a little rash when I say this, but if your feeling is correct, good for Saddam!! We all know Iraq was invaded under false pretenses and we all know it was never a threat to the US. Who knows if Saddam's trial was a real trial.
Don't kill me for this, I am not a supporter of any form of terrorism, but we can't be sure Saddam is one. Not by listening to the US media. Maybe I'm just rambling nonsense, maybe someone knows something I don't, but as far as I remember those supposed mobile weapon factories, or whatever, were never proven to have existed.
The local news just reported that Iraqi officials have not received Saddam from American custody. I am a supporter of hanging Saddam. There are just times when I get very bad vibes.
I may be a little rash when I say this, but if your feeling is correct, good for Saddam!! We all know Iraq was invaded under false pretenses and we all know it was never a threat to the US. Who knows if Saddam's trial was a real trial.
Don't kill me for this, I am not a supporter of any form of terrorism, but we can't be sure Saddam is one. Not by listening to the US media. Maybe I'm just rambling nonsense, maybe someone knows something I don't, but as far as I remember those supposed mobile weapon factories, or whatever, were never proven to have existed.
He still did orchestrate almost an entire genocide though, people have been sentenced to death for less than that...
He still did orchestrate almost an entire genocide though, people have been sentenced to death for less than that...
People have been allowed to do far more as well.
*shakes her head* I some how stumbled across the black helicopter crowd. Excuse me while I return to reality...
It was still a completely dumb decision to invade Iraq. Not only did they have no connection to 9/11, but they had absolutely 0 WMDs. And now we refuse to leave because "the job isn't done."
So Saddam shouldn't even be in our prison. He did absolutely nothing to us. The only reason we have him is because the president wants revenge on him for "tryin to kill his daddy."
Saddam was an evil man, so he deserves execution. Saddam's life is confusing me all the time. One minute, I thought he was dead, then he's alive, then he's dead. It's confusing me!
Saddam was tried and is being executed by his own countrymen, not the US, for crimes against humanity (wiping out entire Kurdish villages with nerve gas, just for starters). He's scheduled to be executed sometime before 9p CST/3am GMT today/tomorrow. They are going to videotape the hanging but will not release it publicly.
I guarantee if Saddam escapes, he will not stay underground long at all--he likes power too much and enjoys attention. He likely wouldn't stay alive very long, either--the Shi'a majority, who were oppressed by him for years, would find him and end his life very quickly.
Makes one wonder what they'll do with the body. If his hanging is merely videotaped, would not the "black helicopter crowd" assert that he didn't really die afterall? Maybe he'll end up in Rio with Elvis, Hoffa and ET. :xp: But seriously, even if SH's death were "miraculously" avoided or even somwhow faked, he's been effectively marginalized. With his power base essentially destroyed, it's unlikely he'll return to power in any real sense of the word.
I hope he dies slowly for all the suffering he has caused.
Saddam's Execution
I am about to make a wierd prediction, and I hope that no-one will hate me for it. After listening to the news for the past few weeks, I began to realize a very scarry reality. Now, I am not saying for 100% fact that this will happen, but I am saying that it is a possibility. A few weeks ago, one of Saddam's half-borthers broke out of American custody. For several weeks now, I began to realize that Saddam may not meet his fate. I am beginning to think that somehow he will be sprung from custody, and then he will reign over Iraq again. Please, don't hate me, but I am getting a bad feeling about this.
One thing that keyed me off to this is a statement made. Someone went on record saying, "Iraq was better off under Saddam's control."
I hope I am dead wrong.
Why would anyone hate you for speculating that Saddam might avoid execution and reign over Iraq again? Because it could happen, but it is unlikely.
EagerWeasel wrote:
It was still a completely dumb decision to invade Iraq. Not only did they have no connection to 9/11, but they had absolutely 0 WMDs. And now we refuse to leave because "the job isn't done."
So Saddam shouldn't even be in our prison. He did absolutely nothing to us. The only reason we have him is because the president wants revenge on him for "tryin to kill his daddy."
Wikipedia wrote:
Saddam initiated Iraq's nuclear enrichment project in the 1980s, with French assistance. The first Iraqi nuclear reactor was named by the French "Osirak", a portmanteau formed from "Osiris", the name of the French experimental reactor that served as template and "Irak", the French spelling of "Iraq". Osirak was destroyed by an Israeli air strike (Operation Opera), because Israel suspected it was going to start producing weapons-grade nuclear material.
I saw a documentary on the History Channel about this. It was absolutely fascinating. Until then I had no idea this had ever occurred. But anyway, my point in all this is, just because we apparantly didn't find any wmd's, doesn't mean he didn't have them.
I don't see how any plan to spring him could succeed, now that the execution is to happen in about three minutes. I think we're actually going to get rid of the scum! :D
EDIT: Yeah, Yeah he's dead! :D:D
Well it is not a question anymore. They just hung him, he is dead, and they just have announced it on CNN and most likely BBC for the UK too. His reign of terror and dictatorship is over.
Will be very interesting to see what happens worldwide in the next few days/weeks.
This is so stupid, they should of reconsidered executing him, now that its done their will be more terrorist attacks and controversy... they should of just left him in prison for the rest of his life.
This is so stupid, they should of reconsidered executing him, now that its done their will be more terrorist attacks and controversy... they should of just left him in prison for the rest of his life.
They actually could not have left him in prison because of the fact that the government of Iraq wanted to see the former dictator hang for the crimes agianst the country and it's people. America nor any other country had a say in this decision as Saddam is technically a citizen of Iraq and has to go along with the governments policy over there. I any case I am just glad to see it is finally over.
Yes, he's dead! Finally...
Rightfuly its never going to be over, theres always going to be terroists theres always going to be terroism, and i just hope that sadam's supporters don't... begin more reigns of terror.. i can easily see it happening for the next days, weeks and months to come.
No offense HZ, but the terrorists don't need SH as a reason to do whatever they'll do. They are slick enough to use western media to try and make us believe that's the case. Frankly, all SH's execution might do is serve as an excuse to "misbehave" now, much like sports fans will often use their respective teams win/loss as an excuse to riot. If the govt in Iraq hadn't hung Saddam, many of those same people would've commited acts of violence in attempts to force the govt to release him. SH's sentence was basically a Catch-22 situation. Whether he lived or died, it wouldn't make any true difference to the terrorists opposition to the west or modern culture in general.
I may be a little rash when I say this, but if your feeling is correct, good for Saddam!! We all know Iraq was invaded under false pretenses and we all know it was never a threat to the US. Who knows if Saddam's trial was a real trial.
Of course the media has major influence on our opinions. But imo, even thinking he is innocent is wrong. The man killed hundreds, if not thousands of people by torture, war, terrorism, without breaking a sweat.
When the sentence was spoken he said:
"For the people!"
"For the country!"
Or something like that. He's just like Albert Speer..."Wir haben es nicht gewьsst."
Don't see this as a personal assault, but I just know (and feel) the guy is a murderer.
And although I'm not a fan of execution, this is what he deserves. Prison would be to easy. With his connections, prison would be heaven for him.
Justice is served.
I still think he looks like Boycie from Only fools and horses. Still, good riddence. One less dictator to worry about and less people will die as a result sooo result!
I still think he looks like Boycie from Only fools and horses. Still, good riddence. One less dictator to worry about and less people will die as a result sooo result!
He looks nothing like Boycie from OFAH. It's only because they both have moustaches. But still, I'm looking foward to what the BBC News have to say about his death.
But still, I'm looking foward to what the BBC News have to say about his death.
Probably say that he died screaming he loved Tony Blair, England and America.
Probably say that he died screaming he loved Tony Blair, England and America.
:lol:
This does not bode well for how the Iraqi government will solve future problems.
Saddam's capture and trial were important and necessary. His execution, not. He is another martyr now. Islamic and other radical groups around the world will only use him as an example of the woes of American Imperialism. This is bad, and in no ways furthers any reconciliation between the nations or the ideological and social barriers that exists between the peoples of the involved nations.
Saddam was an evil mofo, who subjected Shia Muslims and Kurds to imhumanities and cruelty we cannot imagine, let alone have endured if we were ever put in the same situation.
But did the US invade Iraq to protect the Kurds ?? The answer: Post Sept 11 - Colin Powell sat up in front of the UN Security Council and *lied* that Iraq was producing WMDs. Despite protests from within the UN and the Global Community, the US marched into Iraq and deposed Saddam. No WMDs resulted, the world is *not* as safer place - and Iraqis have exchanged one open despot for a more insidious one.
There are Saddam-like despots committing atrocities all over the world, the absolute mess that nations like Zimbabwe and Sudan are in dont seem to warrant as much attention from the White House.
All the while, troops from lower to middle class, and disadvantaged communities make the ultimate sacrifice. It's not fair on their families. They are not safeguarding Liberty or Justice, or protecting a way of life - like in WW2 for example. They are doing what exactly ??
It's at least heartening to see elements of the US political community trying to discern the truth of the situation, and show some consideration of the interests of the troops and their families.
*sigh* what a downer :(
mtfbwya
Justice is served!
Here is a video Iraqi TV aired of Saddam's body after the hanging (It is clean and PG-13...unless if you can't handle looking at a dead body)
[tasteless link snipped]
For any one interested in seeing the actual video of him being hanged, just keep checking back with the ^provided link's^ website for updates. I guarantee this site will have it.
Saddam's capture and trial were important and necessary. His execution, not. He is another martyr now. Islamic and other radical groups around the world will only use him as an example of the woes of American Imperialism. This is bad, and in no ways furthers any reconciliation between the nations or the ideological and social barriers that exists between the peoples of the involved nations.
Yes, he will be viewed as a martyr to some. However, to many others his death, or rather proof of his death, is a great sigh of relief.
Its hard for most of us to think this way, but many Iraqis feared Saddam would return to power. One reporter said, while she was stationed in Iraq, that she was asked by a group of Sunnis "why don't you put Saddam back in power and we can handle the Iran problem together?"
Many Iraqis feared Saddam was not gone for good.
Saddam's supporters hoped he would return to power and his enemies fear it. We, as Americans, Australians, Canadians, and Europeans simply can't grasp the power of the belief he could return to power. For us it was simple after he was captured. Hes gone. The end. For Iraqis, it was not so simple. His death ends the fear he could return to power and allows Iraq to look to the future without fear of Saddam.
That is what his death means. Its a meaning lost to most of us.
Iraq has many problems that need to be solved. Anyone who thinks a government can be put in place overnight is naive. Look at US history, for instance. We like to think in 1776 we declared independence, defeated the British and set up a legitimate government overnight. The Civil War, which happen in the mid 1800s, shows that the legitimacy of the US government was not unquestioned over fifty years after it was put in place. How long has has the current Iraqi government been in place? Not even three years. Of course there are problems.
So, as we stand now, the fear is that Saddam is a martyr to some people. Yes he is, but the people that view him as a martyr would have found another rallying call if Saddam was not killed. Does anyone seriously believe that they would just sit by and let things unfold? Are they going to attempt terrorist attacks because he was killed? If he wasn't executed, they would have just went home and lived peaceful lives trying to better their country, right? Apparently, thats the view of many who opposed the execution.
So thats a bit of a rant, but its something thats been on my mind since his execution. I've heard many talk of Saddam being a martyr, but on balance, I believe his death will have a greater impact for good than ill.
Thank god I was wrong. Sometimes I get a bad feeling that is so strong, and then it comes out true. Justice has been served.
Justice is served!
Here is a video Iraqi TV aired of Saddam's body after the hanging (It is clean and PG-13...unless if you can't handle looking at a dead body)
[tasteless link snipped]
For any one interested in seeing the actual video of him being hanged, just keep checking back with the ^provided link's^ website for updates. I guarantee this site will have it.
Why would anyone be interested in seeing a video of Sadam being hanged?
I know, that SH was a criminal, who commited terrible crimes. But so have many, who are still alive.
SH did not harm anyone here (at least to my knowledge... if that's not the case I apologize) yet everyone praises his death like a big victory?
If we take a look at some African states, there are situations worse than Iraq had been under SH reign.
For all those who speak of how much of a threat Saddam would have been if he were kept alive, I ask: how much of a threat was, say, Rudolph Hoess while imprisoned for the rest of his life? Honestly?
Justice wasn't served. Revenge was. And that is why I must condemn his execution as a cowardly act that gives in to base emotion and has nothing to do with justice. Killing him won't resurrect those he killed.
Justice wasn't served. Revenge was.
QFE. I just found out a few minutes ago on CNN. I have to say that it frightens me to know that someone like Bush can attack a country for no legitimate reason, get its president imprisoned and then killed. I don't know if Saddam was the criminal everyone says he was, but I don't dismiss the possibility. And if he was truly guilty, he should have still been sentenced to life imprisonment, instead of an execution and a hanging, no less. Disgusting.
But anyway, my point in all this is, just because we apparantly didn't find any wmd's, doesn't mean he didn't have them.
Bush's main justification for the invasion was that they knew for certain Saddam had WMDs and where they are. If that were true, US troops would have had no trouble in finding them and dismantling them. The fact that those WMDs were never found proves that Iraq was invaded with no legitimate reason. If they were real, they would be in the hands of Saddam's supporters right now and if they are the terrorists we are all led to believe, they would have used those weapons by now. Fact is, there were no WMDs.
Spider Al put it far more eloquently than I could, and since he doesn't frequent these parts I'll just quote him.
I see that some of us haven't come very far since the days in old England when hangings were staged for public entertainment.
Personally I'm sickened by all the juvenile comments that have sprung up all over the internet in the past twenty-four hours, essentially gloating over the killing of a human being.
Whether the person being executed deserves to die or not, only complete neanderthals would ever take pleasure in such an execution. Especially when those neanderthals were never harmed by the criminal in question. I would understand Saddam's victims feeling palpable elation at his death... but Americans? What did Saddam ever do to America? Oh, apart from buy lots of arms from the US... and attack the ideological enemies of the US...
As for all this nonsense like "now there's democracy in Iraq it's all okay", and "hooray, the world has one less tyrant", it's just mindless regurgitation of irrational propaganda. But that's all I'll say on the matter, as there's another thread in the Senate in which the topic was thoroughly well explored:
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=172318)
I encourage anyone who's "happy" that Saddam's dead, to go and read it, and ruminate on the questions asked therein.
For all those who speak of how much of a threat Saddam would have been if he were kept alive, I ask: how much of a threat was, say, Rudolph Hoess while imprisoned for the rest of his life? Honestly?
Justice wasn't served. Revenge was. And that is why I must condemn his execution as a cowardly act that gives in to base emotion and has nothing to do with justice. Killing him won't resurrect those he killed.
That's what I wanted to say too, but I couldn't put it into words.
I fully agree with Insidious.
For all those who speak of how much of a threat Saddam would have been if he were kept alive, I ask: how much of a threat was, say, Rudolph Hoess while imprisoned for the rest of his life? Honestly?
The issue is not the the actual threat he posed but rather, the fear he still held over many of the Iraqi people. He posed no threat, but
Many Iraqis feared Saddam was not gone for good.
Rudolph Hoess was no threat. He held no control over the German people. None of the Nazis did once the war ended because the Germans did not fear them.
Justice wasn't served. Revenge was. And that is why I must condemn his execution as a cowardly act that gives in to base emotion and has nothing to do with justice. Killing him won't resurrect those he killed.
You are correct, nothing will bring back his victims, but justice is a funny word. It means such different things to different people. Maybe its not justice. I don't know. I do know, that for Iraqi, it was a great relief to a country in a horrible mess. That might not be justice, but its something I can look at and feel good about.
I am not happy that he died because of personal reasons but I recognize the evil man he was. I've seen the videos of the crimes he orchestrated and I see the meaning his death has for the families of his victims. Iraq can move on. They do not fear Saddam's return. For that, I am happy.
Its still a difficult road ahead for the Iraqis but his death makes it easier. How much easier is impossible to say, but even a little after the horror they have gone through is something to be hopeful about.
The issue is not the the actual threat he posed but rather, the fear he still held over many of the Iraqi people. He posed no threat, but
How much fear can you cause from a prison cell? Given time, he would have faded into the background in his prison, like many serial-killers sentenced to life imprisonment before him.
Rudolph Hoess was no threat. He held no control over the German people. None of the Nazis did once the war ended because the Germans did not fear them.
Really? I'd be bloody terrified of a man who made human skin into lampshades.
As for control, how much control has Saddam had since the war ended? Erm, not much.
You are correct, nothing will bring back his victims, but justice is a funny word. It means such different things to different people. Maybe its not justice. I don't know. I do know, that for Iraqi, it was a great relief to a country in a horrible mess. That might not be justice, but its something I can look at and feel good about.
You can feel good that a human life, no matter how misused, was ended? Perhaps it was a huge relief to the man on the street that Marie-Antoinette was killed, but where do you stop? Where do you draw the line? How many deaths are just? What makes the taking of one life to pay for so many just?
I am not happy that he died because of personal reasons but I recognize the evil man he was. I've seen the videos of the crimes he orchestrated and I see the meaning his death has for the families of his victims. Iraq can move on. They do not fear Saddam's return. For that, I am happy.
Perhaps, but now he has immortality as a martyr, a focal point that can be hagiographed into a messiah-figure. Surely that is an even worse thing than for him to languish in a prison cell, forgotten and alone, far away and unbeknownst to all but a few in the government?
Its still a difficult road ahead for the Iraqis but his death makes it easier. How much easier is impossible to say, but even a little after the horror they have gone through is something to be hopeful about.
How does it make their lives easier? All it does is maybe quench their thirst for revenge?
And what of the political implications? I ask the question again: where do you draw the line? Will the Iraqi government become akin to the French Revolution, and consume itself in a tide of blood? I find this far more worrying than the continued existence of one man in a prison cell, broken, defeated and eventually forgotten.
@Everyone: BTW, people are 'hanged' not hung ;)
less people will die as a result sooo result!
The opposite is true. More Iraqis have died since the 2003 invasion in a span of just three years than Hussein probably could have killed off in the remainder of his life.
Well we'll never find that out now will we? And I think that's for the best!
People talk about "oh yay a dictator is gone and and so many more lives will be saved." A question I'd like to ask is, why Saddam? There are hundreds of dangerous dictators in the world, so why Saddam in particular?
Well actually, I know the answer. It's because George Bush doesn't like him. They used the excuse that there was "irrefutable evidence" that he had WMDs, when in fact he had none, to invade Iraq so Bush could take out his revenge on Saddam.
Echoing what TK-8252 said, many more Iraqis have died because of our presence there. Also, thousands of our own troops have died, and unlike so many people have said before, they are not protecting our freedom. I get sick of that excuse. Hussein never put our freedom at stake.
Here's a leaked video, you can't see anything after he falls through the trapdoor though, SFW as long as no ones looking over your shoulder.
[Video Link snipped]
Mod note: No links to morbid videos in this forum please. ~M
I would rather not watch a man hang. It doesn't give me pleasure.
People talk about "oh yay a dictator is gone and and so many more lives will be saved." A question I'd like to ask is, why Saddam? There are hundreds of dangerous dictators in the world, so why Saddam in particular?
Well actually, I know the answer. It's because George Bush doesn't like him. They used the excuse that there was "irrefutable evidence" that he had WMDs, when in fact he had none, to invade Iraq so Bush could take out his revenge on Saddam.
Echoing what TK-8252 said, many more Iraqis have died because of our presence there. Also, thousands of our own troops have died, and unlike so many people have said before, they are not protecting our freedom. I get sick of that excuse. Hussein never put our freedom at stake.
"So why Saddam in particular?"
Why not?
List of Saddam's Exploits:
1. Took over a country from within. Not through an election. (By Force)
2. After taking over Iraq, he killed the former government.
3. Used innocent Iraqi people as sheilds during war.
4. Threw babies and children into a pit of angry dogs, and then watched while they were torn apart.
5. Tested various poisonous gasses on his people.
6. Partaken on several ocassion in ethnic cleansing.
7. Went to an Iraqi town meeting. Asked the people who gathered there if they knew particular traitors. Forced Iraqis to turn in innocent people who were in the audience, and proceeded to have each one of them killed.
8. Went to another town meeting, and asked a group of Iraqis who was in charge. He ended up killing several people until he heard the words, "You are."
9. Went into another country, and tried to perform ethnic cleansing.
10. Encouraged his children and half-brothers to kill innocent people.
11. As a result of his own nuturing, Saddam's sons killed children on a soccer team, for they kept loosiing. They also killed kids for fun.
12. Held his own people hostage.
13. Was a fan of Joeseph Startline, and built his government upon Starline's beliefs.
14. Tested Scud Missles on the Iraqi people.
15. Attempted to have several leaders assasinated.
16. ....Fill in the blanks...
Is that enough for you? I can go on if you like. I can also be very discriptive in what I know.
Mac, that's nothing compared to what some leaders did and still are doing today. Just look at Kim Jong-Ill in North Korea. Only country left that still has concentration camps. So why didn't we invade North Korea? Oh yeah, I forgot, they can actually defend themselves - unlike Saddam could.
And I'm not sure why you would call Stalin "Startline" or "Starline."
Mac, that's nothing compared to what some leaders did and still are doing today. Just look at Kim Jong-Ill in North Korea. Only country left that still has concentration camps. So why didn't we invade North Korea? Oh yeah, I forgot, they can actually defend themselves - unlike Saddam could.
And I'm not sure why you would call Stalin "Startline" or "Starline."
Actually...............it's that 800 lb gorilla called the PRC. Were China to sit on the sidelines, KJI's regime wouldn't last a year.
Well, even though the video was removed from the forum here, I've seen it myself. It got me thinking... You hear of all the terrible things he's done, and the people he's killed... and yet, when he's standing there, he seems like just an ordinary man. You don't see a cold blooded killer, or a terrible monster. You just see a man.
I wonder if he was afraid.