I'm not really one for in-depth explanations of every point from every angle, so please forgive the bluntness of this post.

I believe that the single-player software development kit should be released. Not only would that allow great modmakers to extend their works into sp, with massive gameplay changes, and even able to make their own campains with custom cinematics/voices, ect. Just about anything would be possible *think's of single player forcemod 3*

I'm not certain, but from what I've heard, they're worried about losing money (for some obscure reason no one would tell me) For making the game's single player so moddable. I give you an example of why that is just as wrong as could be: Morrowind.

I haven't played the game for two years, so forgive me if this is out of date, but it was one of the most amazing fantasy games ever, got great reviews, ect. But one thing that made it stand out from the rest, was mods. It came with a user friendly program for making them, where you literally had everything you needed to tear down the world and rebuild it as you like, creating items, spells, places, ect, as well as editing anything already in game. There were even three Quality (as in, as close to developer quality as you can get) Expansions, made by groups of fans using nothing but the mod software.

Just my thoughts on the subject, anyone agree/disagree or see something I missed?

We know. We agree. They won't. If anything, they'd release the SP code for Jedi Outcast, because it's older, but even that is very doubtful.

BTW, NWN also has a very nice toolset also. It takes as much time to learn how to play the game as it does how to learn to use the toolset. That's quality. :)

They're not going to release the SP SDK. They've moved onto other games. The Jedi Knight series is done and done as far as they care.

Mostly i think it's done for the sake of the universe as star wars has a "history" and all that whereas morrowind doesn't, also Luca$art$ is a lot more protective of its property which is why, in my opinion, they haven't let the sdk out. But then if People are allowed to make fan films that take place within star wars, why not allow people to make games? If anything, it's the community that suffers as evidenced by the lack of SP campaigns and oversaturation of MP maps.

There is nothing stopping modders from making indepth and engaging SP maps and stories now. The fact that there is no SP SDK is not the reason there is a lack of SP maps.

Besides, Raven does not control the SW license, so even if they wanted to release the SDK they cannot. Lucasarts controls this.

Well, it does take significantly more effort to make SP maps/campaigns than MP ones. Try it and you'll see. :)

I have to agree with my favorite quote on this.

"Sucks, don't it?"

Yes, yes it does. :mad:

Originally posted by Samuel Dravis
Well, it does take significantly more effort to make SP maps/campaigns than MP ones. Try it and you'll see. :) You are absolutely right!

I'm just saying that the fact that there is no SP SDK is not the main reason for the lack of SP maps. It is because of what you mentioned :D

Well, as much as we'd like to see it, id has never even released the original Q3 SDK, I don't think. Their licence takes even higher precedence than LA's does - and unfortunately, despite our earlier hopes, the new president of LA doesn't seem to be inclined to make the sweeping kinds of changes that would make LA back into a great gaming company.

We won't get the SP SDK. Period. It sucks. But what can you do?

ok, what is the reason for the lack of SP maps? Here's mine, the game was just decent, the lack of support for the community is a contributor, and most importantly, GTK radiant is not as user friendly as JK2 radiant was for JO, i don't care how better the compiles are, it sucks, so i guess the main reason is because a JK3 radiant was not released after the game and i can't get JK2 radiant to work with JA. A seemingly inept complaint, yes, but a valid one.

Anyone else feel the same?

There's a couple of things I miss from JK2Radiant but overall it's no contest, Gtk kills it. From what I understand Raven Software used GtkRadiant. What do you think all those JA MP mappers used? ;)

Maybe GTK is more user-friendly towards MP maps which are unltimately smaller than SP maps. Also JK2 radiant had a kick ass feature that enabled you to click on door brushes and stuff without having to physically click on the door itself which saved me hours with SP mapping. GTK does not have this feature, plus the cool stuff on JK2 was defaulted as opposed to GTK you have to adjust the draw distance, the only cool thing about GTK was the lighting was a bit better but you could still use Q3map2 just fine with JK2 radiant. In the end i guess JK2 radiant is better for SP mapping and GTK better for MP, damn.

I've used GTK for SP mapping, I really think it has the edge over JK2Radiant in most departments. Multiple face selection for texturing is a massive plus, just a few little things like that. On the whole, I can't say they are that different, a few hours of using GTK Radiant was enough to set me largely at ease with it, after having used JK2 Radiant.

BTW, if you mean being able to select all objects on the map you can hold down I think Alt with shift and click repeatedly to select objects 'under' the one radiant selects first.

The one thing that *really* bugs me with GTK is the draw distance, I admit, its unbelievably annoying how I can hardly see anything in the 3d view sometimes.

But in all fairness, I don't think we can blame GTK for the lack of SP maps. I....really have no idea why there have been so few, my best guess is that JA just didn't capture people's imagination like JO did for SP content. The lack of an SP SDK doesn't bother me at all, I can't code and have no intention of learning any more programming (I hate Java, with a vengeance). I wouldn't mind seeing some cool SP mods from coders, but theres still an awful lot you can do with standard SP modding!

Originally posted by Tyler_Durden
Maybe GTK is more user-friendly towards MP maps which are unltimately smaller than SP maps. Also JK2 radiant had a kick ass feature that enabled you to click on door brushes and stuff without having to physically click on the door itself which saved me hours with SP mapping. GTK does not have this feature, plus the cool stuff on JK2 was defaulted as opposed to GTK you have to adjust the draw distance, the only cool thing about GTK was the lighting was a bit better but you could still use Q3map2 just fine with JK2 radiant. In the end i guess JK2 radiant is better for SP mapping and GTK better for MP, damn.

GTKRadiant is awesome! I remember when JK2 came out and I started using JK2Radiant...I remember bugs. Switching to GTKRadiant was great...I didn't have to worry about Radiant doing something odd at any time. (Like turning every brush into an entity...almost lost one of my levels because of that...Radiant won't load a level without a worldspawn) GTKRadiant is a lot faster than JK2Radiant, as well, since it's so much more optimized...this brings me to my next point...

You want big levels? Well, there's no way I'd be able to develop a level, like the one I'm currently working on, in JK2 with JK2Radiant and Sof2map...the level I'm working on is 1 square mile in size, and already contains over 13,000 brushes. JK2Radiant would be a slide show if I tried loading it, and if Sof2map could manage to compile the level without running into an error, it would probably take it a month to finish. Then, of course, JK2 itself wouldn't be able to load it.

Really, I've found GTKRadiant to be a great help in making my SP levels, and once I switched over to it, I got a lot more done. It's been well over a year since I last used JK2Radiant, and haven't once looked back. :D

Big game companies sometimes are too dence to realize that the reason thier games did so well is because of: Hello!, mods! Duh! Instead they think that thier old out dated game just did well on it's own, and had nothing to do with mods. So then they don't give any mod support on the next game and it dies in a year.

lousy gtkradiant and its damn 3d mouse navigation :)