Ok, guys. Phunk's a really beleiver of beta testing and I agree for the most part with him about it. To make sure all the components of OJP are working properly, we need to get as much game time with them as possible.

However, I'm stuck on a dail up and Phunk's busy with MB2, so we need someone to lead up beta testing OJP under true MP conditions. As such, I'm suggesting we change the way beta testing occurs around here.

The deal is that I'll start creating regular beta packages of whatever distro you want to beta in exchange for you playing the mod to check for bugs. And since the project is already open source to start with, I'm going to suggest we do open beta testing.

Those who regularly beta test and/or report bugs will be given beta tester credit and much more consideration when it comes to me personally implimenting their ideas.

Please let me if you're interested.

Enhanced v0.0.2 beta 1 (ojp.jediknight.net/files/betas/ojp_enhanced_002b1.zip)

EDIT: Ytmh just pointed out that I screwed up the install directory inside the zip file. Instead of going in the /GameData folder of your JKA install, it should go in a /GameData/ojpenhanced folder in your JKA install directory. Sorry about the mistake.

Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers!

ROFL ...

Originally posted by Wudan
Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers!

ROFL ...

Hey, you got the reference. :)

First thing I noticed by checking the info given by the Console upon loading JA:

WARNING: Unknown token ROOT in models/players/_humanoid/animation.cfg

It appears something is mistyped in animation.cfg, but apparently doesn't affect much.

Aqua saber color only has the white core, no aqua blade color is present.

More as I continue to test it and read the documentation to know what I'm exactly testing and how it's supposed to behave.

Edit: Nice idea with the manual block, works well but... are the saber swings supposed to be about 1/4 or 1/3 of the regular speed?
Played with this for a while and hitting (or being hit for that matter) was quite impossible unless katas or special moves were used since they are the only thing moving in normal speed.
Normal moves are way too easily dodged by simply doing a hop, roll, sidestep or backstep.

Edit 2: Bots become rather useless with this swing speed.
I spawned the Alora bot and just stood there, saber off, while it continuously kept trying to hit me.
The result was the bot constantly stepping back in the wrong moments, thus missing the swing entirely, or constantly missing due to dodge bar (nice work with the dodge system by the way) refilling fast enough due to the constant bot swing misses; it took about 10 minutes for the bot to manage to kill my iddle, saber off, character.

I saw my opponent being knocked to the floor from simply swinging a dual wield saber at me, while I was just simply standing, doing nothing, holding a double saber; not sure how normal this is, but I didn't see it mentioned in the sabersys.txt readme.

Edit 3: The run up the wall animation is also slowed down just like the swing animations, making it look like they are sliding up the wall; the consequent jump off the wall animation at the top of the run is also slowed down.
Jumping off a wall animates propperly, but if you stick to the wall and then jump off, the animation is slowed down.

Originally posted by Darth Sun
First thing I noticed by checking the info given by the Console upon loading JA:

WARNING: Unknown token ROOT in models/players/_humanoid/animation.cfg

It appears something is mistyped in animation.cfg, but apparently doesn't affect much.

It's a general bug with the JKA debug system. Raven didn't account for the "root" animation when they created the system.

I'll fix that soon.


Edit: Nice idea with the manual block, works well but... are the saber swings supposed to be about 1/4 or 1/3 of the regular speed?
Played with this for a while and hitting (or being hit for that matter) was quite impossible unless katas or special moves were used since they are the only thing moving in normal speed.
Normal moves are way too easily dodged by simply doing a hop, roll, sidestep or backstep.

try increasing the saber animation speed with the new saber animation speed cvar (g_saberanimspeed) I think. I personally like .5. It defualts to .25 (novice speed). Since I've been hearing complaints about that speed, I think I'll boost the default to .5.

Edit 2: Bots become rather useless with this swing speed.
I spawned the Alora bot and just stood there, saber off, while it continuously kept trying to hit me.
The result was the bot constantly stepping back in the wrong moments, thus missing the swing entirely, or constantly missing due to dodge bar (nice work with the dodge system by the way) refilling fast enough due to the constant bot swing misses; it took about 10 minutes for the bot to manage to kill my iddle, saber off, character.

Noted, the bots are pretty retarded when it comes to the new system.

I saw my opponent being knocked to the floor from simply swinging a dual wield saber at me, while I was just simply standing, doing nothing, holding a double saber; not sure how normal this is, but I didn't see it mentioned in the sabersys.txt readme.

Running while attacking has a much higher chance of critical failure (dropping saber/knockback/knockdown).


Edit 3: The run up the wall animation is also slowed down just like the swing animations, making it look like they are sliding up the wall; the consequent jump off the wall animation at the top of the run is also slowed down.
Jumping off a wall animates propperly, but if you stick to the wall and then jump off, the animation is slowed down.

Ok, I never noticed that, that's not right. I'll fix that soon.

Thanks for your input. :)

Glad I could be of assistance. ^_^

Indeed, having g_saberanimspeed at 0.5 is much better; I personally prefer 0.75 though.

I checked out the wall moves issue that you mentioned and I didn't see the problem. Could you please explain more in detail?

When you have debugmelee enabled you can press and hold jump to remain stuck to the wall; when you release jump to hop off the wall, the animation is played with the speed the saber animation is set (by default 1/4th of the speed).
Same goes for the run up the wall animation (forward+2xJump in front of a wall).

I've only just run a test of the mod with bots, but I hope to do a group testing with my clan sometime soon.

Apart from the previously mentioned things, I noticed some clipping issues with TrueView.

This happens when doing a Blue/Fast full turn swing and facing downwards.

[Screenies]

1 (http://lucid.no-ip.com/ojp/HeadClipping1.jpg), 2 (http://lucid.no-ip.com/ojp/HeadClipping2.jpg), 3 (http://lucid.no-ip.com/ojp/HeadClipping3.jpg) & 4 (http://lucid.no-ip.com/ojp/HeadClipping4.jpg)

One other clipping I noticed is facing down in the Red/Heavy stance.

[Screenies]

Clickie (http://lucid.no-ip.com/ojp/HeavyStanceClipping.jpg)

Also in all of the screenshots, what is that meter up top?

Most of the clipping during a spin are occuring because you don't have any of the camera movement while spinning activated. See the readme for details.

As for the saber clipping in heavy stance, there's not much I can do since that's due to a variety of factors beyond my control.

However, I suppose there's some additional things I could try if people really want less clipping in True View.

List of bugs, anoyances and tedious features that were turned on and forgot the cvars to turn them off. I think saber speed should be by default, normal speed IE 1, I felt like it was a matrix scene with all the slow moves, it drove me nuts, atleast have it in the menu so people don't always have to remember the cvar. 2, force regen, dang not being able to regen force while moving sucks, I run to test the force fall, I jump, suprisingly enough it's a normal jump and a perfectly normal fall even though I hadn't used the force since 3 minutes ago, again have it by default set to normal, regen at any time except while using force, give it a menu thing. The blade colors, rock. Everything is fine except for what has been mentioned in previous posts and the tedious features which were automaticly turned on, dang I just can't remember all those cvars. note that I am not trying to sound rude, idiotic or whiny in any way.

So, basically, you want to be playing OJP Basic when you're playing with the OJP Enhanced beta. If you don't want to play with the additional features, that's fine, that's exactly why there's two seperate distros.

no I realy like OJP enhanced, u don't have to be so rude about it, I just don't like slow saber speed by default which can be adjusted without ojp :p and I don't like having to stand there to regen my force pool. People aren't going to stand for 2 minutes then jump, they are jumping on the run. The mod is realy great but u should atleast make certain features optional

Obvious bugs:

- When destroying the pillars in the fortress map I got this message at the top of my screen:

i: Client 183550 was an invalid self entity in G_DoDodge.

- When the mod is loaded, and you return to the mod list under setup, only the first letter of each mod is shown.

I also encountered a few of the previously mentioned problems (the wall climb speed bug).

Gameplay stuff:

- I could get my saber stuck in a wall when I was running by it with only a single saber, but not with either the double saber or the dual sabers. I don't think I should be getting stuck on walls to begin with.

- The lack of force regen is too much. Either greatly increase the regen rate while not moving and walking, or put it back to theway it was. Having to stand around for a while to let your force regenerate is not a good feature for an action game. Reminds me of an MMORPG =(

- With the saberanimspeed at 0.5, while the speeds for dual sabers, and blue and yellow stances for single saber are fine. The animation for red stance and the double saber are painfully slow.

- I have yet to see a clean hit with a saber. I watched two bots sit in a corner and wail on each other for almost a minute before one died. I even tried to take a swipe every now and then, but my saber would just bounce off. So, I stood still, without my saber out and let a bot have at me. When I wasn't hit for 2-5 damage, the saber would pass clean through me and do no damage.

- Maybe manual block should slow you down? Just seemed to make sense to me.

- Dodge.... I think I only had it work once and it made me roll backwards. Not cool. If I was fighting on a ledge or bridge, I'd have rolled off.

I really don't understand what you are trying to do with this mod. On one hand you try to make it more realistic and give more freedom, and make it less random and automatic by adding manual saber blocking, but on the other hand you add a dodge system where it seems like the idea is to totally automate all forms of protecting yourself from a saber.

- View lock... Even though I saw mention of it, I couldn't find how to activate it in the documentation. If it is what I think it is, a console-esque system to automatically lock your view onto another player, then I don't want it anyways. If this is true... Again, are you trying to automate saber combat or add freedom? Please don't do both.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you can no doubt tell, I didn't have the opportunity to play with another person, which is unfortunate. If anything does actually work different with real opponents than bots, just mention it.

I must say though, I'm impressed with how much you have got to work. It looks very promising!

After lowering the dodge regen speed, turning off always run and increasing saber speed I found it more playable..

I feel like this new system is hard to master.. but quite cool...

Things I noticed

While using a pistol it displays the message "charging up" for some reason... not a big issue really.

When using grapples, if another player swings at the person your grappling they go into a dodge anim and break out of your grapple..I can't remember if you continue the grapple animation.

Manual blocking... this could just be me but it seems you have to walk backwards while blocking before you can go into a pure forward block...

Dodge roll can be annoying if it chucks you off the edge.

Wow you actually found a use for meditating, walking and standing still.
Nice one!

Umm... results of manual blocking and even normal blocking seem...random. My imagination again prehaps.

Everything else seems damn cool. I'm not entirely sure having stamina and force share the same meter was a good idea but apart from that everything seems fine..

Had a little more time to spend with the mod.

However this time the mod acted completely different, and the only thing I have changed was the animspeed.

Instead of the sabers just bouncing off of opponents, they dodged everything.

I still believe the rolling dodges are a huge no no. I am very much against the game launching me off in a manner I do not intend.

Dodging seems overly effective, so much so that it over shadows manual blocking. I had to get insane amounts of clean hits (which were all dodged) on my opponent to kill them.

I'm also still in the dark as to what viewlock is.

Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
no I realy like OJP enhanced, u don't have to be so rude about it, I just don't like slow saber speed by default which can be adjusted without ojp :p and I don't like having to stand there to regen my force pool. People aren't going to stand for 2 minutes then jump, they are jumping on the run. The mod is realy great but u should atleast make certain features optional

oh, ok. You had just been railing on Enhanced previously and I thought you were complaining about it in general rather than specific features of it.

The saber speed has been boosted to .5 by defualt.

As for fatigue, the concept is to make it so players will walk and block attacks instead of running everywhere while spamming attack.

- When destroying the pillars in the fortress map I got this message at the top of my screen:
i: Client 183550 was an invalid self entity in G_DoDodge.

Fixed.

- When the mod is loaded, and you return to the mod list under setup, only the first letter of each mod is shown.

Yeah, I think that has to do with Teancum's menu enhancements. I've already asked him to look into it.

Gameplay stuff:

- I could get my saber stuck in a wall when I was running by it with only a single saber, but not with either the double saber or the dual sabers. I don't think I should be getting stuck on walls to begin with.


- With the saberanimspeed at 0.5, while the speeds for dual sabers, and blue and yellow stances for single saber are fine. The animation for red stance and the double saber are painfully slow.

Agreed.

- I have yet to see a clean hit with a saber. I watched two bots sit in a corner and wail on each other for almost a minute before one died. I even tried to take a swipe every now and then, but my saber would just bounce off. So, I stood still, without my saber out and let a bot have at me. When I wasn't hit for 2-5 damage, the saber would pass clean through me and do no damage.

You need to boost your "sv_fps" setting. I really need to document that issue. Anyway, set it to 50 or 100 and try again.

- Maybe manual block should slow you down? Just seemed to make sense to me.
Why?

- Dodge.... I think I only had it work once and it made me roll backwards. Not cool. If I was fighting on a ledge or bridge, I'd have rolled off.

I really don't understand what you are trying to do with this mod. On one hand you try to make it more realistic and give more freedom, and make it less random and automatic by adding manual saber blocking, but on the other hand you add a dodge system where it seems like the idea is to totally automate all forms of protecting yourself from a saber.

The idea is to give maximum control but at the same time preventing the sabers from being unrealistic (IE pass thru or a lot of touching without killing the victim).

I agree that the dodge rolls probably need some sort of check to make sure you don't just roll off cliffs. I'm still thinking of ways to do that.

- View lock... Even though I saw mention of it, I couldn't find how to activate it in the documentation. If it is what I think it is, a console-esque system to automatically lock your view onto another player, then I don't want it anyways. If this is true... Again, are you trying to automate saber combat or add freedom? Please don't do both.

No, it is a system to pretty sabers from passing thru objects on impact unless you actually killed them first. So far, it seems to work fine against wall objects but I haven't had much luck testing it against players/sabers. This needs more testing.

It's always on and it is the cause of the "getting stuck on walls" issue that was mentioned before.

While using a pistol it displays the message "charging up" for some reason... not a big issue really.

That's a debug compile message. Just ignore it since it will not be in the final compiles.

When using grapples, if another player swings at the person your grappling they go into a dodge anim and break out of your grapple..I can't remember if you continue the grapple animation.

Great job catching that one. I totally forgot about that. I've added a fix. It will be in the next beta.

Manual blocking... this could just be me but it seems you have to walk backwards while blocking before you can go into a pure forward block...

Please explain farther, I don't know what you mean.

Umm... results of manual blocking and even normal blocking seem...random. My imagination again prehaps.

It is random to some degree (luck, freak accidents, and all that) but I'm trying to make it as dependant on the situation as possible. Do you have some suggestions on how I can improve it?

Enhanced v0.0.2 beta 2 (http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/ojp_enhanced_002b2.zip)

Now I might have missed it while looking through the cvarlist, but it would be nice to have atleast a cvar to turn the force regen only when not moving thing off. It can get anoying, ur running, u jump, u land, u keep running, u jump and fall into a pit of lava :p no offense, just gets a tad anoying,

Regen only stops when you're running. The point of that is to accurately prevent people from regenning fatigue while running away from their attackers. Plus, we really want people to slow down to walk speed when battleing each other.

still please atleast make a toggling cvar for it

Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
still please atleast make a toggling cvar for it

I don't currently see a need for it. Adding cvars only muddles up the server waters and would throw off the game balance. While it does take some getting used to, I think it's for the best.

most people have run on by default, there is a need for it, for those who like to explore maps or only duel in certain locations. How would it throw off game balance? Note that I am not trying to be anoying and yes I know it's ur mod, and yes I know I cannot controle what u do, it's just an anoying feature that I bet alot of people would like to turn off on certain servers.

If people want to explore maps then they do it offline and not online.
If people are only dueling, then surely they are also standing while doing nothing waiting for the next opponent; during that time they can simply meditate and the Force regenerates fully quite quickly.

IMO I don't want to turn it off, I love this feature.
I have "always run" on by default, but I also have a button which I can easilly press to make me walk if I have to, thus this doesn't affect me in any way.

Adapt, that's what the objective of this system is, to make things more strategic and less random; if you don't want to stop running in the moments you strategicly find are good to regenerate, then play OJP Basic instead of OJP Enhanced.


quote:
----------------------------------------
Manual blocking... this could just be me but it seems you have to walk backwards while blocking before you can go into a pure forward block...
----------------------------------------

Please explain farther, I don't know what you mean.


What he means is that if you press forward+block you don't block, because blocks only work in 7 directions and not when pressing forward; you have to press another direction to cause the block animation to occur before you can walk forward with that directional block activated.

first of all, I've been on servers, duelers don't stand and wait for passers by. Second of all, do u mean this should be meant for those with high speed comnnections only? 56k sucks, I know, UPGRADE TO CABLE!, I know. The mod should be offliner freindly aswell. As for strategy, Yeah I'm all for strategy, adapting and such, but such an option should be toggleable for those who don't like slowly walking everywhere, people don't use walk often, just durring duels mostly from what I've seen, if it were to be for the dueling game mode and for ffa duels, then it would be a nice feature to stop force spamming and cowards, but it affects normal gameplay, running and jumping becomes a hassle. All I ask is a simple cvar to turn it off

I also play on servers.
The majority I tried are just people dueling in a FFA envirognment, so things don't change too much from just dueling in those kinds of servers.

Duelers sometimes do stop and wait for the next person if the place they are at is a known dueling spot in a FFA map, especially if there's other people around them watching the duels; someone will quickly fill in the spot if that's the case.

Regardless, what really should be done is to ensure the Force bar and Dodge bar are filled once the duel is over (assuming people use the call duel button) and also when the duel begins.
That should solve things in FFA servers.
If it doesn't, it means you're spamming special moves in the middle of a crowd trying to get a lucky hit and kill a couple of them in the mess of swinging sabers, which is something this system aims to correct.

My two cents.

What he means is that if you press forward+block you don't block, because blocks only work in 7 directions and not when pressing forward; you have to press another direction to cause the block animation to occur before you can walk forward with that directional block activated.

Well, the main reason is that there's no bottom/down block position in the game. Personally I think it works out since it allows you to move forward with a block position. I might do something about that at some point.

first of all, I've been on servers, duelers don't stand and wait for passers by. Second of all, do u mean this should be meant for those with high speed comnnections only? 56k sucks, I know, UPGRADE TO CABLE!, I know. The mod should be offliner freindly aswell. As for strategy, Yeah I'm all for strategy, adapting and such, but such an option should be toggleable for those who don't like slowly walking everywhere, people don't use walk often, just durring duels mostly from what I've seen, if it were to be for the dueling game mode and for ffa duels, then it would be a nice feature to stop force spamming and cowards, but it affects normal gameplay, running and jumping becomes a hassle. All I ask is a simple cvar to turn it off

The point is to prevent people from just turning and running away when they run low on fatigue. I want people to have to be able to conserve their energy to win battles.

The only time when this will affect running around and jumping is after you make at least 3 full powered without slowing down to a walk/stop to regen. All the maps are set up so you don't have to jump everywhere anyway.

Enhanced v0.0.2 beta 3 (http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/ojp_enhanced_002b3.zip)

- Dodge Blocking works now.

- PreCog (IE dodging before something happens) Dodges for thermal weapons and other explosive weapons.

- Walk speed increased.

I don't know if this was intentional or not, but saber attacks seem to be draining force. I know force spam is a problem and all, but for heavens sake man, sometimes jump during fights, go get health, Yes people run away and get health and come back, yeah, thats sorta the point of the medpacks, no offense but u need to stop with the force restrictions :( it kinda makes them worthless and pointless to use. Which defeats the purpose of having the force at all, the way this is going, u might aswell disable medpacks and armor packs, get rid of force, make it guns and single sabers only. And u might very well attempt to do this, which would suck, but it's ur mod, I just hate everything draining my force pool, even when I don't use force, it gets realy anoying, when I say anoying I mean ANOYING. I'm not saying I hate the whole mod, just the dang force draining & no regen while running parts. People will run away with or without force, then they will use medpacks and they will come back, thats the point of the medpack, it's not meant for just strong players only who have just one a duel match. There will be cowards yes, there will be newbies, yes, are all mod made maps made for non force users, no, certain things require force u know, not everyone only plays the raven maps, and even then u have to use force in some to get to certain areas. I'm not trying to sound rude, I'm not trying to sound like a controle freak, I'm not trying to force u to change ur mod, I just think that u will screw ur whole mod with these dang features which can't be turned off, because u don't want to go through the hassle of making cvars, or because u want people to play ur way, ur vision, and it alone. I'm afraid u'll ruin ur mod, thats all. I don't want u to screw it up. I like ur mod allot, just not these new features designed to impose ur version of gameplay, I know, I know it's ur mod, I just wish to help, thank u for reading this, have a great day modders and good luck

Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
I don't know if this was intentional or not, but saber attacks seem to be draining force. I know force spam is a problem and all, but for heavens sake man, sometimes jump during fights, go get health, Yes people run away and get health and come back, yeah, thats sorta the point of the medpacks, no offense but u need to stop with the force restrictions :( it kinda makes them worthless and pointless to use. Which defeats the purpose of having the force at all, the way this is going, u might aswell disable medpacks and armor packs, get rid of force, make it guns and single sabers only. And u might very well attempt to do this, which would suck, but it's ur mod, I just hate everything draining my force pool, even when I don't use force, it gets realy anoying, when I say anoying I mean ANOYING. I'm not saying I hate the whole mod, just the dang force draining & no regen while running parts. People will run away with or without force, then they will use medpacks and they will come back, thats the point of the medpack, it's not meant for just strong players only who have just one a duel match. There will be cowards yes, there will be newbies, yes, are all mod made maps made for non force users, no, certain things require force u know, not everyone only plays the raven maps, and even then u have to use force in some to get to certain areas. I'm not trying to sound rude, I'm not trying to sound like a controle freak, I'm not trying to force u to change ur mod, I just think that u will screw ur whole mod with these dang features which can't be turned off, because u don't want to go through the hassle of making cvars, or because u want people to play ur way, ur vision, and it alone. I'm afraid u'll ruin ur mod, thats all. I don't want u to screw it up. I like ur mod allot, just not these new features designed to impose ur version of gameplay, I know, I know it's ur mod, I just wish to help, thank u for reading this, have a great day modders and good luck

With Dodge in place, health and armor packs are going to be much less utility.

I've yet to hear you say anything positive about any of Enhanced features before or after the betas. Again, you sound like you're more interested in the non-gameplay altering Basic distro rather than the Enhanced one. If you want to constantly run around, jump like a monkey, or spam attack, stick to Basic.

The point of Basic to provide the non-gameplay alter features of OJP to the people that don't want other changes to the game. With Basic in place, we can then use Enhanced as a playground for more radical changes. My particular additions to Enhanced are focused on making the game more "realistic" and more challenging.


In addition, please use paragraphs to seperate up your posts. Not doing so makes it very hard to read your posts.

razor is currently trying to fix that problem, we arent sure exactly how though as of yet, he wants to stop spamming, but freedom and ability to do stuff must be kept. any ideas are welcomed, dont critisize without an idea to help him out.

hrm I've noticed that the Force Fall abilty is pretty annoying when trying to strafe jump...
Perhaps you could avoid that by activating force fall through a key combination.

ok here is the best setting that ive found, everyone use these

g_forceregen 325
g_dodgeregen 2000
g_saberanimspeed .7
sv_fps 100


and does anyone know the saberlock cvar???

why not have force fall activate when you hold down crouch and jump at the same time? Just a thought.

chage that, make saberanimspeed .65 perfect for aiming, dont worry we'll change reds speed.

Originally posted by Pahricida
hrm I've noticed that the Force Fall abilty is pretty annoying when trying to strafe jump...
Perhaps you could avoid that by activating force fall through a key combination.

Yeah, I'll fix that. I gotta find the speed at which fall damage occurs and then set Force Fall to activate a little above that speed.

why not have force fall activate when you hold down crouch and jump at the same time? Just a thought.

I'd like to see that turned into a dive move actually.

jump and then immediatly press crouch to dive. It's one of the things on my to-do list once Corto releases his animatable skel.

Along two versions of it. One where you hit the ground and roll and another where you continue the dive when you hit water.

yeah, sounds like a cool move.

Anyway....

Enhanced v0.0.2b4 (http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/ojp_enhanced_002b4.zip)

- Removed manual blocking button. Replaced it with block/parry button. Hold to block incoming saber attacks. To parry incoming attacks, press and hold the block button right before an attack will hit. Entering block/parry mode costs 1 FP but you can stay in it as long as you want without cost. However, remember that your parry bonuses (chances of forcing your attacker into a knockaway, etc.) go way down after a second or so off holding the block button.

- Totally hacked the bots to walk instead of run everywhere.

- Remember to make sure that...
sv_fps is set to 50 or 100.
g_saberDmgDelay_Wound = at least 100
cl_maxpackets = sv_fps

- g_debugsabercombat 7 = Debug messages for the parry bonus results.

- g_dodgeRegenTime changed to 1000

- g_forceRegenTime changed to 500

Suddenly the title of this thread reminded me of the Steve Balmer "Developers!" video. lol


Good luck with the test guys. ; )

The dodge roll is very, very, very annoying.

It's just rediculous when your character and your opponent are rolling every single strike. Not to mention the falling off the cliff issue.

Takes a looooooooooooooooooooong time to kill someone. 4 or 5 strikes one after another in yellow stance. I had damage scale set at 2, does this even change dodge? My guess is no.

When you auto block it automatically repositions your saber as you hold down the button, sometime this is annoying because I am lining up the block and all of a sudden my saber moves. Maybe if the saber would stay in it's initial position as the button is held down?

Force fall still works if no force is on.

It'd be nice if force fall had a seperate button other than jump, I find it kind of annoying when I'm landing and goto take a second jump and I force fall just before I hit the ground and mess up my second jump.

Originally posted by Soruss
The dodge roll is very, very, very annoying.

It's just rediculous when your character and your opponent are rolling every single strike. Not to mention the falling off the cliff issue.

make sure that g_DmgDelay_wound is set to non-zero. I recommend 100. That will help. I'll work on the falling off cliffs issue.

Takes a looooooooooooooooooooong time to kill someone. 4 or 5 strikes one after another in yellow stance. I had damage scale set at 2, does this even change dodge? My guess is no.

That is intentional to some degree. Set g_regenDodgeTime to something higher. Ive been playing with 1000 but it might need to be higher than that.

When you auto block it automatically repositions your saber as you hold down the button, sometime this is annoying because I am lining up the block and all of a sudden my saber moves. Maybe if the saber would stay in it's initial position as the button is held down?

Yeah, I don't exactly like that much either. I like your idea thou. We might try that.


Force fall still works if no force is on.

It'd be nice if force fall had a seperate button other than jump, I find it kind of annoying when I'm landing and goto take a second jump and I force fall just before I hit the ground and mess up my second jump.

Noted. I'll fix the no force bug ASAP. As for Force Fall activation, I'm going to be upping the minimum fall speed to activate it so that should fix the problem.

Only bugs I've noticed so far (in only about half an hour of testing last night on beta 3) were:

The RGB Sabers, though they work great, have a little wierd stuff in the menus. You can (manually, by clicking just past the edge) or actually type in, values less than 0. I think the lowest it'll go manually is -12; I haven't messed with it that much with typing. Not a big deal; it just subtracts whatever neg # you have in from 255, apparently.
The aforementioned saber passthru - you said this can be fixed with sv_fps and whatnot, so I'm not worried about it. I'm assuming you're going to make all those standard at some point?
Did you update the walk speed? B/c holy crud that was slow! I can see what you're doing and whatnot, but raising it even by a fourth from its b3 value would help immensely.


The only other recommendation I'd make after playing it so far is this: have a separate Force regen bar from the Fatigue bar. (Maybe just put fatigue in the same area as Dodge, which would make sense). The reason for this is that I personally feel Fatigue and Force should affect each other but not necessarily be the same thing. Perhaps the more fatigued one is, the slower Force regens. It also leads to the idea of thus having a Force Refresh power that refills your fatigue bar but drains a ton of Force.

Fantastic gameplay; the little bit of work I did with the saber stuff is excellent; I've already modified the sabers I used to be compatible with it ridiculously easily, so nice job. I like the manual blocking, so Ii'll have to see with the parry. Is it still directional like the manual blocking?

enhanced features I like :D
New menu options
New saber color options rgb and such
Old Gametypes Available, Jedi Master, Holocron.... :cool:
True Veiw :eek:
Better Hit detection :p
Upped vehicle limit

Enhanced Features I dislike :mad:
Force drain with saber attacks :(
lack of force regen while running
slow walking to force regen
bot problems having to do with the new saber system :bdroid1:

Perhaps u should make an enhanced lite LoL :p or the easiest solution, cvars :D

If u were already planning to put the features I mentioned in the enhanced features I like list in basic, then nm

Okay, I've put about another hour and a half in. There seems to be little or no problem with the rgb saber stuff, true view, menu. Most of the cvars seem to be fine.

Now, maybe it's just me doing something wrong, but cg_sabermelee doesn't seem to work at all; it's doing the stupid "Let's make it a text chat" thing instead of a command. Is it just me screwing something up or is there actually something wrong with it?

After playing around with it this much, I haven't noticed but a few major bugs. First, even with the settings all set at least where razor and the others have been having success, my disgusting saber passthru without damage is still happening, more so with two or staff sabers than with single, but still there will all of 'em.

Obviously the bots are screwy, so I'm taking that into account (that's all I can play against for now). Even so, I'd stand there with my saber off and just watch several different bots just hack like mad at me and see the pretty little trails go through me and take no damage. It's almost like it's doing dodge code - but without the animation or the meter dropping. Not sure on that one.

The other big problem that may or may not need to be addressed within this release is that the grapple moves are seriously overpowered. I could just run around in melee mode and annihilate Jedi Master-level saber user bots with ease. The grapples (the forward and standing still are ridiculously easy to land) destroy the people, and there doesn't seem to be any way out. On the other hand, it's nearly impossible to land the head-knee bashing back grapple ever. Some balance there would help immensely.

Admiral - go check the readme, but I'm pretty sure that all of those are in Basic. Hit detection might be the only one that isn't... As far as the bots go, they weren't programmed to use this system, so the fact that they're working at all is enough for me.

I love the slowing of the anims when low on Fatigue points: I would make it happen at a slightly higher value, though (I think it's at ten right now, 20 would be better). And, after playing it this much, I think there definitely needs to be a difference between Force and Fatigue. My suggestion would be that the less fatigue points one has, the slower Force regens, and vice versa. As I mentioned earlier, one could even create a new Force power that would regen some Fatigue but at high cost. This seems to fit in better with the movies and books, where Jedi often use the Force to refresh themselves - but are a little drained of the Force itself afterwards. I think this would eliminate the problem of Force depending on walk speed (not so consistent with the SW universe, as evidence by Jedi enhancing their speed with the force ie Speed). Likewise, using a lightsaber doesn't drain a Jedi's ability to touch the Force, it simply physically tires him. Instead, only Fatigue should depend on walk speed, and Force it's own thing that regens on its own. Just my two cents...

Oh, and after this - walk speed isn't bad. A little faster might be nice, but overall this isn't too bad.

Finally, I'm not sure I like the current parry system as well. I liked the manual block better. Perhaps some combo of the two would be better?

"make sure that g_DmgDelay_wound is set to non-zero. I recommend 100. That will help. I'll work on the falling off cliffs issue."

I'm pretty sure it was at 100. Is it possible to disable the rolling? It bothers me enough that I'd say I wouldn't bother playing MP against anyone with dodge rolling. I'd prefer that an automated system doesn't have such rash control over my movement. I can roll to dodge quite well on my own =P On that note, maybe rolling should take fatigue? Maybe some of the special jumping moves might take fatigue instead of force, or maybe just jumping in general might take a bit of fatigue? Might stop people from randomly jumping around. Although one of the fun things about JK2 is turning on speed and jumping around the levels. Sorry, random splurge of ideas.

"That is intentional to some degree. Set g_regenDodgeTime to something higher. Ive been playing with 1000 but it might need to be higher than that."

I'll try setting it higher. Would a cvar for the damage done to the dodge meter be a possibility?

Originally posted by Master_Keralys
The RGB Sabers, though they work great, have a little wierd stuff in the menus. You can (manually, by clicking just past the edge) or actually type in, values less than 0. I think the lowest it'll go manually is -12; I haven't messed with it that much with typing. Not a big deal; it just subtracts whatever neg # you have in from 255, apparently.

I checked the menu files and it looks like both issues are just general problems with menu engine. Not really something I can fix. Fortunately, it sounds like sanity checks within the rgb saber system are properly handling the bad values.

The aforementioned saber passthru - you said this can be fixed with sv_fps and whatnot, so I'm not worried about it. I'm assuming you're going to make all those standard at some point?
Did you update the walk speed? B/c holy crud that was slow! I can see what you're doing and whatnot, but raising it even by a fourth from its b3 value would help immensely.

Well, unfortunately, it looks like I can't have the code change the nessicary cvars to boost the fps from inside the code. So, instead I'll be doing a tweak guide to explain which cvars have to be changed for improved internet connections and hit connection.

And yes, I am aware that the walk speed still feels slow. I'm still tweaking it based on beta testing feedback. It will be higher in the next beta.

The only other recommendation I'd make after playing it so far is this: have a separate Force regen bar from the Fatigue bar.

I've had that suggested before but I don't really see the benefit in it. Plus, it would also mean ANOTHER meter on the screen.

Originally posted by razoraceWell, unfortunately, it looks like I can't have the code change the nessicary cvars to boost the fps from inside the code. So, instead I'll be doing a tweak guide to explain which cvars have to be changed for improved internet connections and hit connection.

And yes, I am aware that the walk speed still feels slow. I'm still tweaking it based on beta testing feedback. It will be higher in the next beta.

Okay. Not a problem with the fps thing, I just figured I'd check and see; that will through some newbies at first. I'm glad to hear you're looking at walk speed. In my personal opinion, about 1/4 to 1/3 again as fast would be about perfect.
I've had that suggested before but I don't really see the benefit in it. Plus, it would also mean ANOTHER meter on the screen.

I just personally find it a little irritating. It's no bid deal really; the only reason I'd even make it is to allow for the "Force Refresh" power and to make it a little more lifelike. And I was thinking about it meter-wise: you could just stick it inside the Dodge meter (the same way health and shields) display. If you choose not to do so, it's no biggie. I just think it would enhance the gameplay a little.

One other thing I noticed about the grapple: because of the current dodge system, you're way too hard to kill with a lightsaber when you're in melee mode. Maybe it's the faulty hit detection I'm still getting (and probably a little b/c it's bots I'm playing against), but the insane ease I have of surviving against two or sometimes even 3 saber users with just my fists and feet seems unrealistic. No single person, all else being equal, should be able to take out three saber users who match him in ability with just grapples, punches, and kicks. I'm not sure how to get around that, but the dodge makes you nearly invincible if you're half-way decent at normal manual dodges.

Is the feint system still present? I couldn't get it to work at all.