lucas (and lucasarts) seems to work in trilogies ... and academy is the third in the series, so what's next?

i started this post for no real reason other than to hear what other people would like to see in the next jedi-style series (i'm sure they'll come up with another excuse to put out some more games). who knows maybe someone high on the totem pole will read this and start thinkin':)

now battlegrounds is coming out soon, which looks cool for those who just like to shoot eachother (my friends fit in this category). i happen to really like the sabres though.

i think lucasarts should put their money where their mouth is and abandon the quake engine they've been using for the jedi series. i think it's time for something new. i feel that an engine that really defines the power of the jedi would be best. something that allows for saber-dismemberment not only for humans but for the environment they fight in. the ability to cut support beams at their base and then force push them off their mooring, possibly into other combatants. tired of walking around in a circular level, why not just whip out your saber and cut a whole in the wall from one side to another. did someone lock a blast door in front of you, why not go qui-gon on it and just cut a hole in it. you get the idea.

also there is mention in books of seven U]forms[/U] of saber combat; it would be cool to see those all, maybe you make a character and choose the form he uses. also i think it would cool if they possible slowed down the saber speed a little, that way its no longer a hackfest (or button pushing contest) but you have observe what your attacker does and attempt to counter as quickly as possible. example, someone winds up to take off your head with a form 5 cross thrust (i made that up:)) and there are 3 moves that you can perform to counter with one possibly leading into an attack of your own. make it almost more (dare i say it) like a fighting game, but not too much.

i also think an rpg-style would be nice .. someone who really practices his moves is going to be better/stronger than someone who just bought the game yesterday. maybe make how you play the single-player missions affect your character in the online arena, etc.

i also think since the jedi knight series is now over (?), it would be nice to set the story way back during the great sith wars, a story revolving around darth bane, lord kaan, general hoth, the battle of ruusan and the likes.

alright that's my shpeel, thanks for letting me practice my first ammendment rights (i love democracy). anyone who wants to post a reply to this feel free to. thanks again.

I think klye katarn still has some life left in him for another Jk game. I'd love it if they made another jedi knight set during the New Jedi Order series. I know many people don't like that series of books but I thought they were awesome and I think if you could jump between Klye's character for harder missions(since his powers would be pretty strong by then) and a new apprentice of his(for missions that are easier but might require a little more physical vigor and agility.) Plus I think you should see more civilians and have to protect them to stay on the lightside. Maybe alter some of the force powers a bit, throw in a few new one, improve the saber system a lot(Im hoping the OJP system will do that for JA) and you got yourself a real contender. Well that's all folks!

Well, technically, Jedi Outcast is the third. (DF, JK, JO, JA) I just hope that a geo-mod type system is in the next game!

im looking for more of a RPGish game

For an RPG get KOTOR, or SWG :)

something that allows for saber-dismemberment not only for humans but for the environment they fight in. the ability to cut support beams at their base and then force push them off their mooring, possibly into other combatants. tired of walking around in a circular level, why not just whip out your saber and cut a whole in the wall from one side to another. did someone lock a blast door in front of you, why not go qui-gon on it and just cut a hole in it. you get the idea.

Good Idea... they did it. Its possible in the engine. Very Possible. Just not implemented (not to the level we would like)

Civilians are possible too. Even in MP. Yes.. mp too.. you could have NPCs walking around, talking, not fighting, doing things (sitting, jumping, sleeping, interacting with the environment)Really. Check out my map: Dark Crypt (http://jk2files.com/file.info?ID=23198) It has an NPC walking around, NOT attacking. I called it a ghost, even though its just a cultist you can walk through. Its sort of buggy... but as long you dont interfere with him, he will work fine. Like i said, its very basic, because no one really knows what will work in MP, and what will not. :) Thats sort of RPGish.... Not to the level you would like, but still.

I liked how you visited places like Hoth and tatooine in the game. It made it feel like the star wars universe. On the same note, i didnt like some of the made up worlds. Especially Korriban, it just seems like tatooine, with yavin temples.

If they make a new game, i would love it to take place during the actaull star wars period: The Original Triolgy :) Imagine, being luke skywalker, or han solo (even JKA now supports switching player models, if Raven wanted to, they could have made you switch to chewie, or kyle in the middle of the game, which ill be implementing later on) They touched this with the Hoth winter suit... but you were still Jaden. Anyways... back to what i was saying. They should make an OT game, but expand a little. Maybe be luke on the death star for one level, then han... you know like when they split up. You could be obi, and maybe add a small fight with the tusken raiders.. or add to the bar fight. Make it so luke couldnt die or you would lose... or something (still... all possible with the current engine)

The engine is good right now, its excellant, with some more coding it could support RPG elements. But you will be happy to know that JA is the last game using the Quake 3 arena engine. The graphics just cant compete with the latest engines :(

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
For an RPG get KOTOR, or SWG :)




i would get SWG, but i heard its like just running around in space and no action

and i LOVE KotOR :)

Basically I'd like to see a dedicated "Dark Side user" game (speaking of the single player campaign). We've played as the good guys in all three games, with only the first one really offering a real choice (JA's was pretty much a throwaway option).

How about a game where we start on the Dark Path right at the start? (with maybe the option somewhere if you do certain things to pull a Vader and "come back" with a noble sacrafice if the designers are still dead set on making you good).

The mould for Jedi Academy is pretty good, though of course it could stand a few improvements here and there.

Mainly I'd like to see more interaction with NPC's and coop possibilities explored and more of the class and objective based modes (and vehicles integrated into combat) that were only briefly touched on in JA.

Of course ideally this game would be more open ended as far as editing is concerned (ie: SP SDK), but with a liscense as tightly clutched as Star Wars that may not be likely for some time.

Heck, look how long it took them just to allow a Star Wars game to have Dedicated servers!

While JA I think is truly an evolution of the series so far, I admit there are still a few things in the spirit of JK1 and MotS that the series could benefit from, namely better guns combat in Single Player, a more compelling story/characters, more animations to give the characters and the world life, truly swimmable water, inventory items that are actually useful, more work with dynamic lighting (ie: seeing in the dark, hidding in darkness, more glowing objects and cast shadows), more destructable and interactive environments (like what was planned for Obi-Wan PC).

But all those things are icing on the cake for me. In general I'd just like more of what came before, but with an option to finally play as the bad guys.

The JK series doesn't need to nix the guns play (this would be a big mistake) or first person view. It doesn't need to turn into an RPG either. The greatest strength for the series is the unique combat experience in both SP and MP with a mixture of projectile weapons, melee weapons and ability enhancing and cool force powers (and it goes without saying the Star Wars name, which conjures up far more than just Jedi swinging sabers).

I don't think a game based on the NJO would work too well, so it should either be an original adventure, or perhaps taking on the role of a famous evil force user like Darth Vader, etc.

A game like this may already be in the works for all we know. ; )
It seems like the natural evolution of the series, it's what hasn't really been explored yet on that level.

PS: Nitpick but JA is actually the the fourth game in the series (fifth if you count MotS, the JK1 expansion as a seperate game, which it almost was).

I think the one thing it really needs, (aside from an involving story and good voicework for once), would be a new combat system. The JO method of combat has gotten old and as far as making new moves or different things to do there's not a lot new to do with the exception of preprogrammed junk like katas. I know it's a broken record, but for a new game to be even justifiable they need something with much more saber control, say, possibly, being able to stand in place and fight? Something where you controlled the saber instead of setting off various swings.

Originally posted by Darth-Bane
im looking for more of a RPGish game

holy christ...

I think we shold have another game like JA with a customizable character , just with more vehicles and weapons. I also think if you have JA, you could somehow tell the new game you had it and have a different storyline than if you hadn't got JA.

They should use the Havok engine for the next JK game

I'd like to see something along the lines of DF2 ; npc's, your actions determining your alignment to the force (not that drop your glow stick to decide bs), a semi-decent story, perhaps on a new engine. I'd also like them to bring Kyle back, Jaden just don't cut it, IMO.

oh man, geo modding all the way. i don't understand why new games don't use it since its been used in a really old game, its soo much better than havok. imagine havok and geo modding combined :o

I think they should make a game set during the prequels. Maybe have a game where you play as anakin and obi-wan during the clone wars (not based on the cartoon) but something along those lines, between episodes 1, 2, and 3. Or even as an original character coming out of the academy during the clone wars being sent to fight separatists on some world with a squad of clones, ultimately being betrayed by the republic and fighting for your very survival.

On the subject of the engine, i think lucasarts should come up with or contract a company to come up with a completely new engine, a la jedi knight with the idea to maximize effects such as sabers and lighting, vehicles, models, etc. to get a constant framerate, which was something the quake 3 engine had a lot of trouble doing, even with top of the line hardware.

I would like to see a real time star wars rpg along the lines of morrowind but i would think that day is not forthcoming for some time. But the games being brought out this year do look very promising indeed.

From what little I know, id software is in the engine-building business...Doom 3 existing mostly to show off their latest engine. From an economic standpoint, it probably makes alot of sense to use an engine from someone else & modify it a bit to suit your needs as a company, instead of reinventing the wheel.

As someone mentioned earlier, all I want is more of the same, though with a first-person saber mode...lol. I'm still miffed about that. I just hope they continue making spectacular games as they have...since I try to stay away from the multiplayer aspect, as CS ruined my life (damn near, with no exageration) I just want some solid SP storylines to get involved with for about 20-30 hours, and then be done with the game for the most part.

I feel your pain Aegis, witht the loss of the 1st person mode in this game i just lost interest, unlike JO which i played over and over and built about 20 unreleased SP maps for it. There was something else, i guess the story was better, i can't really put my finger on it but the point was that it inspired me, not only as a gamer but as an artist and introduced the world of game modding to me, as a result i became an even bigger star wars fan. I then spent the next year planning a huge mod based on what i knew was going to be in academy as it was going to supposedly be more modder friendly, but after playing the game i felt the magic was lost somehow. Support for the game was nill, the awesome JK2 radiant which i learned to use for JO was not updated to JK3 radiant, i didn't like GTK at all, then I let my big project go down the drain lost faith and have moved onto other games. I just hope that the next jedi game, if there is one, restores that magic like JO and that it will be easy to mod.

Well, within the year we are getting a prequel based FPS for the pc with full multiplayer capability (Republic Commando) using a recently modified Unreal engine, but there isn't any sign of usable Force powers or lightsabers in it.

I agree that First Person saber (in SP and MP) should be brought back in any new Jedi Knight games for sure.

Official sources have already publically said that JA is the last Jedi game that will use a modified Q3 engine.

And I think the initial poster was referring to Battlefront (based on the BF1942 engine), not Battlegrounds (which is based on the Age of Kings engine).


And there actually ARE "Seven Lightsaber Forms" in Jedi Academy.

First off there are the three styles for the Single Saber, and one unique style each for the Dual and Saberstaff.

Then (Single Player only) there are two additional styles (available through the use of cheats), "Tavion's Style" and "Desann's Style."

Actually, there are more if you think about it. There's a "Reborn Style" which is basically like the staff if one blade were turned off but still using the same moves including kicks. This is also usable with cheats.

Finally the player styles in SP and MP are different. For example the standing swing in SP is like the running swing in MP. The moves also behave differently (ie: you can walk and spin with certai moves that you can't in MP; you have spin kicks and long jumps in SP, etc).

A lot of potential is right there in the series, it just needs to be implemented in a nice way in a new polished game.

As for making a brand new in-house engine for Jedi Knight IV, that sounds like a great idea. I think the game would benefit from it the most.

However there are a few things to bear in mind when we wish for something like that.

Developing new engines takes TIME. As was pointed out in various interviews and statements by the developers of JA, if you want a new engine each game you have to be prepared to wait 3-5 YEARS for each new game.

Second, companies like Raven software don't make new engines fr their games. Being a smaller company this is understandable. Thus they can have shorter development cycles, build on what they have worked on before and save money.

Third, if you look at the games that LucasArts has released recently, a large portion of them are contracted out to other smaller companies and use modified versions of pre-existing engines (based on popular selling games not very coincidentally).

In the PC gaming industry, which isn't as profitable these days as they'd like to be, it makes sense that they'd be trying to "cut corners" like this. It doesn't mean their games can't be good, but it does make it harder to make totally in-house games with as huge budgets and attention to detail as we saw in the original Jedi Knight.

Plus, as was said, you have to re-invent the wheel everytime you make a new game, or start with a new engine, because the majority of FPS games don't have melee weapons and force powers in mind when they are designed. Plus you have all the legal restraints (especially if you're not LucasArts) based on what you can and cannot do with the liscensed characters and themes.

Frankly, I find it amazing that so many good Star Wars games get made at all (and believe me I agree there have been some real stinkers made in the past few years).

Still, I think the reason developers keep coming back to Star Wars is because Star Wars is so popular and the developers themselves are such big fans. To them it's a labor of love. But love alone isn't enough, they need money, man-power and time.

So with all that to take into account I begin to understand the extereme difficulties and restraints put on developers who work on Star Wars games.

I havent been through the whole topic yet, but Id just like to get my ideas down:

Character customisation: Obviously if the game features speach its hard to name your character exactly as you wish, but maybe you could select from a number of titles, first and last names?

And i feel a greater impact of dark/light allignment on the single player game would be good. Prehaps have a kind of mission tree, where you start either as a padawan on Yavin 4, a dark jedi/sith initiate on some Remnant world (Pre dark empire Byss prehaps, or Bastion?) or a mercenary, whos game would feature more gunplay. Though along the line you can choose to change allignment to light, dark, or a Kyle esque maverick using powers of both sides, based on the descisions you make and the ways you obtain your objectives. Furthermore, it would be cool to have things like 'Darsiders with good intentions' with an ending reflecting how they are doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.

Further to customisation, customised saber styles? Start with a basic fast/medium/heavy stance and buy from a selection of acrobatics, kicks, throws, katas and such to get your own style. Prehaps an experiance system that automatically level ups certain skills (such as force jump so you can always complete the next level), but allows some customisation, whilst over skills can only progress past a certain point with use (so in order to get level 3 lightning, you need to use level 2 alot).

And Id like more 'film-style' dueling. I think normal jump, though enhanced by increased force jump levels, should not cost force points but not take you so high, and have a dedicated force jumpo power for the massive jumps. In the films when we see such jumps (the Carbonite chamber duel and the Naboo reactor) the Jedi had to brace themselves, they couldnt just bound about like that. So implementing this should keep duel grounded.

And leading AI allies would be nice, so your jedi would lead a commando team to blow up a base or something.

And leading AI allies would be nice, so your jedi would lead a commando team to blow up a base or something.

Possible.... just not implemented. A lot of things mentioned here is possible, just not implemented. But i agree, A new engine would be nice.


Finally the player styles in SP and MP are different. For example the standing swing in SP is like the running swing in MP. The moves also behave differently (ie: you can walk and spin with certai moves that you can't in MP; you have spin kicks and long jumps in SP, etc).

Like i said in another thread, i think they cut those out to reduce lag. In single player, 5 people at the same time might be doing that, but in MP, there could be 32.

I plan to make a SP level sometime, it will focus on some of these things. Wont be for a long time though :(

I'd be interested to see what road the developers of the next game will take. Would they use the doom, half life, or unreal engine, or even something else? I could be wrong but from what i've heard, the doom engine doesn't really support multiple npc's and large environments, even with the top hardware. Didn't deus ex use this engine? I haven't heard much in terms of the half life engine, but i heard theirs allows for a bit more freedom but you do need top of the line video card, processor and ram. I think the most malleable engine would be the unreal engine. The graphics are good, the environments seem very large in certain areas, and i believe it allows for multiple npcs. It actually played better for me than the quake 3 engine if you can believe that. To me it would seem the logical way to go but then again i could be wrong.

I would also like to see a darkside storyline. A real one. The realistic saber effects on the environment would be awsome, but I honestly dont think they would be willing to modify an engine to get that kind of effect. Leading squads is also a great idea, after all isnt that what the jedi were doing in the clone wars?

Actually, I was looking forward to a Jedi game based inside them movies, and I hope they make one before im 50:rolleyes: . I have to agree that JA didnt have the "magic" JO did. Back in JO I never played online, and must have played the single player game 20-30 times. Now when I try to play JA single player, after about 15 minutes i get fed up with it and quit and go to multiplayer. I use guns preferably, so if they took those out I would be dissapointed
:(

I'd like them to set the next game in the Clone Wars. The one clone wars game that has been done was mostly vehicle fighting with a few short lightsaber levels. I'd like them to do a game that kind of a reverse of that. a first person shooter with maybe a level with two or three levels of vehicle fighting( hopefully with at least one starfighter battle) but mostly level that require lightsaber use(with the option of 1st or 3rd person views). like in the 1st clone wars game you would be different characters for different levels For instance you would play as Obiwan on Munilist maybe with a level after it where you fly a jedi starfighter as Anakin( a planet they fought on during the clone wars cartoon) Anakin and Obiwan on Jabim ( a planet they fought on in the comics) were you start as Obiwan and then switch to anakin in attempt to find a missing Obiwan and Mace on the planet from Shatterpoint. Other levels would have you play as Eeth Koth and/or Ploo Koon or Kit Fisto, and for good measure the female master from Approaching Storm(a novel set pre ATOC) and/or Adi Galia. Once you go through the game once you could then be able to play any level as any character like in EA's Return of the King game and maybe have a few secret characters like a playable yoda. Sorry for the long post put I put alot of thought into this after playing JA and The Clone Wars and then watching the Micro series.

I remember these threads ... of, well, I don't have the time to get into full detail ...

SP:
- More skill development. I'd love to see a 'train-up' based skill system, where you learn and apply various skills.
- More RPG-lite elements. Choosing dialogue, taking a character path, etc.
- The morality meter, and rewards for keeping to your character type. If you are playing a stealth character and get through a level without killing anyone or tripping alarms - you get some type of bonus to your stealth abilities. Or whatever.
- I'd like to suggest a 'versus' game type. You can start as either a light-sider or dark-sider and work your way towards the battle at the end against the other one.
- All of these things would greatly enhance the gameplay and replayability.

MP
- I don't care if the next game has MP or not. So what does my opinion matter?
- That said - I'd like a MP-focused game that involves Jedi campaigns.

Mike

txn, that is a dope idea, the next game should have you choose whether you want to be a lightsider or darksider from the outset and have a branch-like storyline towards the end like if you were a jedi then had to decide if you join the darkside or stay a light jedi, then the game would act accordingly, plus keep the character build option and have more dress options. I always wanted my female jedi to be able to wear other clothes as opposed to being restricted to one set.

The game could be awesome having the morality meter, kind of like KOTOR in that if you choose to say more evil things or threaten someone, the game would act by giving you more evil choices as opposed to good, thus changing your character. Cool.

Geo mod is too buggy. That's why only RF and RF2 used it. Havok is the future

I like what txa1265 and Tyler posted. What KOTOR did with the morality meter was good. What you said affected you and the outcome of the game. Opening up special powers and such. So combined, both of you made very good points which I totaly agree with both of you.

Now I've read through the thread and didn't here anything about co-op. Personally I would love this feature. Some friends and I going through with lightsabers facing stormtroopers or republic troops (sticking with the light side / dark side idea from txa) and sith/jedi. Of course there can't be too many people though. Maybe 2 other people including yourself so a small group of 3 jedi/sith. Internet co-op would be awesome as of couse LAN capable as well. Each player can level up the way they want to keep things unique.

I think it would be nice if next JEDI game would have less combat
and more talking, investigation, sneaking, ... And it should be far
in the future or past... (pretty much like KOTOR but where the
control of the character works like in JK fps...)

Originally posted by darth makaan
Geo mod is too buggy. That's why only RF and RF2 used it. Havok is the future

by Havok do you mean the engine used in Half Life 2 ?

if so thats the Source engine , Havok is the physics engine that has been added in to the Source engine

I've thought of this idea and started notticing more and more ppl are becoming interested in the idea of an rpg side to JK. It would be amazing, just to think of it, going from planet to planet (single player + planet in multiplayer = server) getting robes, saber hilts/sabers and power ups for them, armor, guns, swords, etc. It would be so intriuging moving through planets meeting new players, being able to duel with them, trade with them and TEAM UP WITH THEM!!!!

I must state : teaming up within a partenership if by bots or players would just be the next best thing.
Thealso introduce vehicles...and yer they already did, but im talkin' about creating/customizing/buying a vehicle that will either transport, fight (or both) for you.
They should introduce buildings where only you have access to... there by, to save your progress you must go to yiur appartment in the building and it will save from you. ( this way no abuse of getting killed = losing items perhaps, etc.)
This game should let you control the factor ofbeing able tochoose your deignated possition within the game ( Jedi, City Gaurdian...aka Police, etc.)
What I am trying to propose is that a Jedi Universe/Galaxy is created with certain boundries set to keep the game enjoyable for all.

Thats all folks!

Also I would like to mention that the Jedi Academy/Outcast style fighting should remain the same(if not changed for the better!) That wayall would be intrested in the game: RPG lovers and JA lovers and FPS lovers. This game, if created , would be a very "free will...be what you want game"...just asi said, with boundries.

I think the next Game should be done with the Doom 3 engine or done in house. I would aslo like to see some more vehiles, and have them well implemented. Also, many force powers. I would also like to see faster more powerfull bullets. The guns in this game are a joke. Also would like to see you actually be able to choose your path. Mabey 100+ missions, and the choises you make actually affct what game you play. My idea of non-leiarlity is NOT "choose what order you do the missions in the three piers" and NOT You can choose the DARK side right before the last mission and if you do the light jedi will fight you instdead of attack you." That was realy stupid. The levels had almost no puzzles, and were very short. That big fuss Raven made about it not being linear was a big lie. They lied about alot of srtuff in JA. It wasnt an expansion pack, it was a 50$ patch!
I want to play as Kyle agin also, and if its not too much to ask have a story line that a 2 year old, MIGHT have some kind of a passing intrrest in.

I think true non-linearity is something you would find in games such as grand theft auto or even kotor to some extent. Moreso GTA because you could accept missions in any order you choose, plus you have a HUGE world to explore, not even a world, a city. Now if this were done in terms of a jedi/star wars game, not galaxies, but a First Person game all it's own for SP/MP , with similar gameplay to JO/JA without the need to play online, i think it would be the greatest SW game ever. I have posted ideas on other topics of this nature but here's a review:

First of all you start out as a regular person making his/her way around the galaxy. From the outset you assign points to your profile, thus crafting the person you would like to be in the game. You could assign yourself as a force sensitive, go to the academy and train to be a jedi or you could have good hunting instincts and are a fast talker so you could be a good bounty hunter. You choose your path by your actions via the dark/light side meter, so if you get your kicks picking off innnocent bystanders you would be more prone to evil, thus the game would act accordingly by having people be afraid of you or being unwelcome in a certain town or planet.

The thing that would be the hardest but the best feature is to be able to travel from planet to planet, also there would be a flying mode, so you can go to different space stations and what not or have battles in space, picking up left over junk from the ships you destroy. I also thought there could be a way to aquire npc's to help you so if you need a squadron to get a certain job done, you would just have to hit a cantina or station and put out some credits. You would also have the option for them to help you out on ground missions so you could tell them to cover you while you take out a squad of troopers. It would be cool too if the game had a feature so if you want to go to a certain planet, you would just hit a button and go into hyperspace.

I think a game like this could be done with the morrowind engine or the engine microsoft used for freelancer. This would save time and money because the engines are a little older but i'm sure the developers could modify it so that it would look cool and get the job done.

Is my point not getting across, basically, all ive read is possible, or unrealistic. 100+ levels? You want to wait 10 years? Why dont you make a map (with scripting, and a story line, and we will see how long it takes) A good duel map can take hours upon hours, and with the quality they put into JA, days, maybe weeks, for one map. My first FFA map took me about a month and a half to make. SP is a bit more complex than MP though. You need scripting for it to be good. And the problem is, a lot of scripting was done (more than you realize) but you just didnt notice it. I mean, its small things and big things. Ill tell you from experience, scripting takes a looong time. But its 100% necessary, and required to make a good game.

More vehicles? No problem, make one. If you dont have modeling software, no problem, load up good old MS paint and notepad, and skin one.

I mean, I see what you people are saying, but it is all possible in JA. Go make the levels you want. They give you the tools to do it.

Another thing, RPGing and FPS cannot mix. Its obvious, look around the forums, and on any JA server. Unless, the company decides to put in an RPG game mode, then that would be alright.

you would just hit a button and go into hyperspace.


Hyperspace is possible in JA. You just most likley have not seen it. Its only being used by the asteroids team right now, but its in the code already. This means, you can have your traveling from planet to planet, by using hyperspace. Raven did a lot of work on the game, it just wasnt implemented. They should have implemented it, but.... they didnt, for reasons we dont know about.

I've thought of this idea and started notticing more and more ppl are becoming interested in the idea of an rpg side to JK. It would be amazing, just to think of it, going from planet to planet (single player + planet in multiplayer = server) getting robes, saber hilts/sabers and power ups for them, armor, guns, swords, etc. It would be so intriuging moving through planets meeting new players, being able to duel with them, trade with them and TEAM UP WITH THEM!!!!


Isnt that SWG?

I must state : teaming up within a partenership if by bots or players would just be the next best thing.

Ever hear of Team FFA? Ok, maybe not what you want. Hmmm.... bots can team up together in FFA. There might be a way to get an NPC to recognise you as an alli in MP (half of scripting doesnt work in MP) but, if you can get the NPC to realize your an alli, it should follow you. Not to mention, you and someone else in an FFA server can team up, and attack everyone else. Clans do it all the time :)

Now I've read through the thread and didn't here anything about co-op. Personally I would love this feature. Some friends and I going through with lightsabers facing stormtroopers or republic troops (sticking with the light side / dark side idea from txa) and sith/jedi. Of course there can't be too many people though. Maybe 2 other people including yourself so a small group of 3 jedi/sith. Internet co-op would be awesome as of couse LAN capable as well. Each player can level up the way they want to keep things unique.

You know what, I know a guy making Co-Op for JA right now as we speak! And guess what, its for MP, and can obviously support more than 2 players. You want to play with a friend, well... just play on LAN, or the internet.

- More skill development. I'd love to see a 'train-up' based skill system, where you learn and apply various skills.

They did that, notice how you gain lightsaber stances as you go up in levels. It was done in JK2 too.

The realistic saber effects on the environment would be awsome, but I honestly dont think they would be willing to modify an engine to get that kind of effect. Leading squads is also a great idea, after all isnt that what the jedi were doing in the clone wars?

Like I said before, possible. Good NPCs follow you, and attack bad NPCs. They even communicate with each other, and *can* with the enemies.

The stuff (and more) of what I listed above is possible, without codeing. All you need to know is a little mapping, scripting (maybe some modeling on the side, for a little variety) and then your good to go.

The good thing about a game like JKA is, you can customise it yourself. With some work and effort this stuff isnt that tough to do, just a little time consuming.

When I first heard about the non linear single player, i thought maybe it was a decision you had to make ingame. This is a bad example, but, if you go left, it loads one level, if you go right it loads another. You know things like that (which are possible, and very easily done) You just need a good story.

You can make an RPG map in JKA very easy... just the money system would not be possible without coding. Personally, I like to frag things, but everyone has an opinion. As it looks right now, there wont be another JK game for at least 2 more years (this assuming there will be one, and they have already started) You might as well try to get the most out of what you have. Think of how great JKA would be if someone included (but not overused) this stuff?

Originally posted by AJL
I think it would be nice if next JEDI game would have less combat
and more talking, investigation, sneaking, ...
splinter cell with a lightsaber. :dev7:

I thought 100 levles was impossible too, but i hear HL2 will have that many. I rather wait awile for a good game the blow 50$ every 6 months for a bad game.

There are three areas I think need to be messed with in the next JK series.
1. Combat- The saber system needs to be altered to make it so fighting another saber wielder is a truly interctive experience. Ex: your opponent attacks and you parry in response. Some of the defensive side of the saber system should remain automatic( blaster deflection) but some of it should definetely be put under the player control. Stealth and stealthy knockout and attacks should also be an option.(ala thief or splinter cell). Also, a force power should be included that allows jedi to shrug off powers non force users are vunerable to( mind trick and grip in particular)

2.Skills- I really think they need to put in a Kotor style skill system. That way if you want to access codes from a computer or pick a lock or mess with a base's security systems you either need an ally to do it(NPC, co op buddy, whatever) or you learn how to do it yourself. You should not be an human swiss army knife from the start of the game. It doesn't make sense and it would let you include allies regularly on mission to fill in the roles you don't want to deal with.


3. Plot- Personally I think Kyle katarn still has plenty of life in him as a character. Since most people here don't seem to like an NJO based storyline, why not chronicle Kyle's continued endeavors to guard the valley of the jedi. Or if you hate playing kyle you could jump ahead a hundred years or so to his decendant(s) still trying to protect the valley and maybe stopping darksiders from getting their hands on artifacts and places of force energy. That's basically been the story behind all of the JK series anyways. Throw in some training missions and some stand alone missions and you got a game.
Phew! Well that's my two cents folks.

Actually, RPGing and FPS DO mix. Check out elder scrools 3 morrowind. That is an fps style rpg that could be altered to support a good star wars rpg. Another thing is that the MP code is radically different from the SP code, a lot of people, myself included were turned off by this so in that respect it wouldn't work, plus the scripting in MP is second-rate compared to the script potential in SP. This is all speculation though, as JA was the last game to use any quake 3 code. Personally, i found making levels, scripting, coding in doors and all that was rather cumbersome, i'd like to see it simplified with a different engine. Hopefully they'll make the next game with half life source, i heard somewhere that valve is gonna release the source code for HL2 soon after release, a great example of encouraging and helping out that community. Other devs should take note. Peace.

Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet
I thought 100 levles was impossible too, but i hear HL2 will have that many. I rather wait awile for a good game the blow 50$ every 6 months for a bad game. Yeah, but HL2 will also wash your socks for you ... oops, wait, they stole that code, too ... oh, well ...

;)

But remember that SoFII had '60+ action packed levels' ... but was less than 20 hours long. What we'd want is a long game, not a 'numbers game'.

As for the whole RPG thing - Morrowmind is an action-rpg, not a 'real' RPG. Not is it an FPS. But I do like the skill system.

I think the melding point has to be adding RPG elements to a FPS core. I also think it has to be optional - just like you have a difficulty level, you should have a RPG-level. The game length should not include side-quests, and still be long. Of course I'm not saying there shouldn't be side-quests - OF COURSE there should be.

Mike

I agree that the saber combat should be improved upon. In JO especially, matches tended to boil down to two people bouncing around a level trying to get the drop on each other with a heavy red attack, with the occasional saber lock occurring. Greater things could be done, particularly on the XBox. What about using the normal look-move system with the two thumbsticks to traverse a level, with the usual method of employing attacks to take out groups of weaker enemies, accompanied by the option of a lock-on system, where activation one stick could be used for movement, and the other for determining the placement of your saber, in order to deflect incoming blows and change stance to launch various attacks.
I especially agree with yolkboy's comments on co-op multiplay.
Two (or more) Jedi fighting back-to-back against an overwhelming force of Remnant and Reborn troops is an immensely appealing idea.
Someone else also commented on a different way to handle the force jumping. A nice idea-if done right, it could indeed ground the saber battles...make 'em a bit more hardcore.
A geo-mod style engine is definitely needed. They're LIGHTSABERS, for god's sake! They should be cutting through everything! But element's of Deus Ex: Invisible War's engine wouldn't go amiss either. Advanced lighting affects are the very thing this series needs to make the battles even more dramatic.
The discussion over rpg elements is unearthing some nice ideas, but I feel they shouldn't be taken too far. Done right, the JK series could well become all things to all people, but I think a cap should be put on them if these elements where ever to make it into the series. JK has always been an action game at heart, and for the time being at least, that's what should be concentrated on until they get that particular aspect RIGHT. Then they can fiddle about with the overall depth of the game.

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
You know what, I know a guy making Co-Op for JA right now as we speak! And guess what, its for MP, and can obviously support more than 2 players. You want to play with a friend, well... just play on LAN, or the internet.


Do I sense a little hostility? I was implying to the SINGLE PLAYER aspect of the game when I said Co-Op. You know, going through the SP story with other people. Obviously I can play with my friends in Multiplayer. They don’t call it MP for nothing. I might have misled you a bit. It is probably that LAN/Internet Co-Op thing that I mentioned huh? Well here’s what I mean. (*Note - I’m still talking about single player) The game can be played on multiple computers. That way we don’t have to deal with split screens (I’ve always hated them). Now I know that not everyone has 3 computers that would be able to run the game. Therefore, I also proposed the Internet option of playing with two other people over the Internet. They can be a block away or half way across the world. I hope that clears up everything.

Yeah, the guys is making a co-op mission for MP. You go in, and fight. Just like SP. You fight NPC (non playable characters) who attack you back.. not bots. You know you can load a SP map in MP. But because the MP scripting is not 100% like SP, many aspects do not work. Thats why you design a MP level, that includes SP parts, that will work correctly. :) Im not talking about normal MP, where you fight your friends.. i know what co-op is.

BTW, DL the new Siege map, you will see


Hyperspace
Scripted NPCs (at the end)


Just like I said.. all possible.

Well, if that's the case, I'll be sitting here by my computer waiting for this mod to come out.... I just hope that it is implemented into the next game right out of the box.

Check out the mapping forum, youll see him mention it. Im not sure what his name was..... BTW, you have JA on Xbox? This is a player created mod/map thingy, so.. you might not be able to get it, unless you can DL player created stuff....

This is something i've thought about alot, and how they could do it for the better.

MULTIPLAYER:
First off you would need something that would change how the fighting takes place completly. what i hate about JA is the movement you have to do to avoid a saber, sure give the play the option to RUN around swinging wildly, however give someone the ability to WALK slowly and still be able to defend, heck make defence even higher.

Another thing that vex's me is the stances. One thing i loved about DFII is that there was no stances, you could move in 8 different directions with walking and running to do different moves (i'm talking SBX basicly). I like the idea of FORMS, give a jedi a different feel and let them customize.

The Life Meter. As far as i'm concerned sabers should be lethal, they should cut through HP like it was butter, and jedi's dont wear shields. If your fighting a merc your saber should hit there shield perhaps, and then when the shields gone thier hp just vanashes. however when fighting a Jedi the "shields" need to be blocking ability, perhaps like in MOTF mod for JK2 but with actual blocking animations, none of this I HIT YOU WITH MY SABER, oh.. dang.. your not dead. then it becomes a game of being able to hit the oppenent while he's swinging, and it stops the wild swings, or hitting the oppoent enough times so that his defence gets knocked down to nothing (he's off balance) and hitting him before it goes back up.

Mercs Vs Jedis really sucks, it needs to be fixed slightly, however this could be done in a mod of JA. Such as non-pullable weapons even though it could be possible, it really sucks being a merc fighting a jedi losing your weapon ALL the time. Other then that there needs to be defensive bonus' for the walking jedi and such, oh yeah, i have a gun, why can't a roll? make it a short roll just dont make it so i can't roll at all.. again.. jedi's dont have shields, if a merc hits a jedi in the back, they get hit and lose HP. Allow double weapons with double aiming with a lock on system, much like they do in consoles, although this seems UNFAIR because they can aim at you, they dont get the advantage of aiming at your head with it, and they have a greater chance of missing (toggle-able in controlls)

Other advancements: Such as if you stand still you become atuned to your enviroment, you get little markers on the side of your screens telling you that there is someone around and pointing to where they are, so you can get those pesky Merc's before they hit you in the back with a Bryar Pistol. Better Force powers, fix lightning please, make it so that it works and doens't just spit everywhere (IE it gloms onto one person or 2 people depending on how you aim), give the ability of force absorb to either absorb with a hand or by holding your saber up against it (like yoda did in EP2). Fix the sounds, give it actual saber sounds from the movies, and actual force sounds from the movies. in general add more force powers, and make them more player controlled, like throwing your saber at someone is only 1/2 of it, you have to pull it back or go up and pick it up. Add more acrobatic moves, for example if you jump up there are 5 different annimations, it's random on wich one you get and doesn't affect the outcome of where you land or anything, just makes it more asthetic, because that what the jedi are really about in the end.

A game isn't only the major things , it's the little details that make it a seller.

SINGLE PLAYER:

I'd like to see 2 campains. One from the Light Side, and one from the Dark Side. But make it realistic, for example if your on the Dark Side your not going to be going around saying your the vile evil of the story, your going to think your in the right about everything you do, make it seem like that.

Give it a good story, DFII had a not bad story, JO's was weaker, and JA's as much as it was somewhat user powered was weak for what they did. It could have been so much better.

Now for my responses to what people have said in some cases:
When you guys say that offline play affects online play, i personally think that stinks. I buy games for thier ONLINE play, i rarly play single player, i play the single player on Jedi Games so that i can learn how to play, not so i can affect what i do in MP. thats too much like Phantasy Star Online, and it gets boring to have to start a new "character" when everyone else is so uber powerfull. Go play Diablo II non-ladder and start a new character, had you been dueling others it would be next to imposible. You'd have to go around and kill creeps constantly to get anythign that would be good

Seige was good, for about 20 minutes. It gets old fast, it's always the same objectives, give it some sort of life somehow, either make LOADS of maps for it, or make the objectives change at random

Sorry if alot of this is rambling, but i'm just trying to say it all at the same time, and i'm rather unorganised inside my head, if it doesn't make sense, dont complain.. just move along, this is not the post your looking for.

Actually some good thoughts, Xemoka - not that I agree with all of them, but what does that matter ;)

I think one clear thing - the whole SP vs. MP thing.

Personally I don't care *AT ALL* if JKII or JA had no MP component. Sure, I've played it - but not much. It just isn't my thing. I'm not big into MP - and it isn't that I'm lousy, I actually do pretty well - about the upper middle of the pack on average (except on Jedi Master, where I was generally first or second, but that's another matter).

Max Payne 1 & 2 are horribly short, SP only games. Yet they are very good games and immensely popular. Despite being linear and having no player-based character development. Why? They are fun. The stories are good.

I love the Jedi games for the stories and the development - and for having the best weapon ever in a game.

As for the essentials of engines - things like ragdoll, solar flare, dynamic lighting, geo-mod and the like are just window dressing. The best game can have none of them and be good - and the worst game can have all of them and still be crap.

To figure out what you want, break down what matters most to you in these games. To me, it is:
- Action
- Story
- Role-playing

That's about it. I like nice graphics, but am not beholden to them. If a new Jedi game used the Q3 engine like JKII, but added more role-playing (more than JA as well) and lots of NPC's and side-objectives to a fresh story ... I'd be quite happy.

But that's me.

Mike

I have the PC version. I'm anti-console actually. Anyways, where can I find more information on this mod?

I agree that graphics aren't the be-all and end-all of games, but they certainly help. Compare the original X-Wing to X-Wing Alliance. Wasn't the atmosphere so much better? While I'm on the subject of atmosphere, the makers of the next game in the series should turn their attentions to the use of music. I feel this area is one that could (*should*) be much improved. Atmosphere is one thing that all Star Wars games should have by the bucketload, and anything that can boost it should be considered, as long as it doesn't get in the way of interactivity, or, indeed, the game in general.
For this particular series, action and story would be at the top of my list, also. I would dismiss RPG elements (for now) for reasons earlier stated. The developers simply haven't come close enough to unleashing the full potential of the series as it is, without weighing it down with further aspects.
Those are my thoughts, anyhow.

Originally posted by PhobicDagger
I agree that graphics aren't the be-all and end-all of games, but they certainly help. Compare the original X-Wing to X-Wing Alliance. Yeah, but X-Wing Alliance came out 7 years after X-Wing. Jedi Academy came out 18 months after Jedi Outcast.

Originally posted by yolkboy
I have the PC version. I'm anti-console actually. Anyways, where can I find more information on this mod?

I dont think theres much info out... just talk.

Luke, you wouldn't be referring to the project of Freyr, Alien and Arkon, would you?