yeah, i was thinking about that there can't be another jedi knight because of the non-leinear game play. What if you are a dark jedi and you destroy the academy or something.
topic
Well, I don't think the gameplay is that non-linear. I believe your chices will affect your character mostly, who is nothing but a guest star in jk series. I believe in JK3 (4?) Kyle will be back in action regardless of what you will manage to screw up as a custom Jedi apprentice.
I agree, I don't think we'll be seeing our apprentice destroy the academy or rule the republic. The most he'll do is turn into a dark jedi or something.
Unless LA pulls a JK1 and says that the "light side" choice was the true ending.
It would be interesting if Raven/Lucasarts made 2 Jedi Knight 3s... one with the Lightside ending and one with the Darkside ending.
Originally posted by Mith[OmNi]
It would be interesting if Raven/Lucasarts made 2 Jedi Knight 3s... one with the Lightside ending and one with the Darkside ending.
Or one with 2 starting points :) And you'd have an option to 'fall' to the other side at the end of both games, so JK4 would have 4 starting points ;)
Originally posted by Blademaster_109
yeah, i was thinking about that there can't be another jedi knight because of the non-leinear game play. What if you are a dark jedi and you destroy the academy or something. Or what if you destroy all enemies and friends, seize infinite dark power for yourself and take over as emperor, with Sar ... oh never mind ...
;)
Seriously, who knows what they'll do next. MoH has you play a different soldier each time (difference is that Kyle is a character, Jaden Korr will be a character, but the generics in MoH:whatever are just that ... generics like any FPS). Maybe they'll have something happen to nearly kill Kyle and you'll have to train back into the Force ...
Mike
Originally posted by txa1265
Maybe they'll have something happen to nearly kill Kyle and you'll have to train back into the Force ...
[/B]
GAH! I really couldn't play the first 2-4 hrs of Jedi Knight 2 again. That was just unpleasant.
Originally posted by Mith[OmNi]
GAH! I really couldn't play the first 2-4 hrs of Jedi Knight 2 again. That was just unpleasant. I actually liked it in a way, since I had just been replaying Dark Forces, I saw it as an updating of that ... only much harder because the enemies wouldn't do you the courtesy of standing around waiting to be shot!
But that's not what I was talking about - I was talking about Kyle being in a terrible crash or whatever, and having to retrain and rebuild his skills from a low level (not zero) almost like he was a Padawan.
I don't like the need to start out low skilled each new game, but understand it from a gameplay standpoint.
Now THAT would be an expansion pack ... start off where you leave JA, and the new adventure gets you new powers and levels and moves and such ...
Mike
I still think the next game should be Jedi Knight: Jedi Master - where you start of with quite a few maxed out powers and just have to play the hell out of difficult levels. Maybe rather than focusing on ramping up powers they could focus more closely on different aspects of level design - maybe have to apprentice a padawan, or control and organize a squad of jedi - and get a really good story going - the galaxy thrown into a fracas only a true master could rescue it from - rather than a half-burned-out mercenary or a padawan who just started to shave.
Originally posted by Reprehence
I still think the next game should be Jedi Knight: Jedi Master - where you start of with quite a few maxed out powers and just have to play the hell out of difficult levels. Maybe rather than focusing on ramping up powers they could focus more closely on different aspects of level design - and get a really good story going - the galaxy thrown into a fracas only a true master could rescue it from - rather than a half-burned-out mercenary or a padawan who just started to shave. In a way I agree ... but there is a reason why all games get harder as you go on - you get more and more skilled at the mechanics of the game as you play, and at handling the weapons, etc.
So if you got everything from the beginning, I'm not sure how that would play ...
Mike
If the next game comes out, I think Kyle has to be back in it, most definitely and that we should have Jedi Master powers, this I lost my connection to the force is getting very old now, also I think it should be done on another engine like the Doom 3 engine, or the Half Life or Unreal Tournament engine, the Quake 3 engine will make it look very similar to the other two.
Well the thing with this game is that you will be starting off as jedi apprentice who WILL have force powers... they may not be a threat to even Luke back in Return of the Jedi, but it should be enough to make a couple
Stormtroopers
shake in their attire.
So its not going to be like Jedi Outcast where your blaster is more powerful that your hand.
Originally posted by HertogJan
Or one with 2 starting points :) And you'd have an option to 'fall' to the other side at the end of both games, so JK4 would have 4 starting points ;)
that is the only way i can see a jk 4
i wont a jk4, but i will have to wait and see what the ending is like for jk3, when i get to the ending, then i will decide if there will be a sequil, cuz i kinda thought this one was gonna be the last
I think JK3 should have been called Jedi Apprentice. It just seems more appropriate than Academy. Might as well have called New Jedi Order... :rolleyes:
And it leads up to 'Jedi Master' or whatever...
I believe we've played the last of Kyle....
JK3 (when it happens, and it will), will probably be in a new engine.... mabye once raven are done working on Quake 4, LucasArts will get them to use the Doom 3 engine to make JK3.
Who knows :) But it will come....
I sure hope JA is the last JK game. LEC should let the JA editing community thrive for years as Jedi Knight did, then let it die and rest peacefully. Any more is milking a dead cow.
There's five thousand years of timeline to play with before ANH, potentially more. No reason to keep cramming games into the twenty years that come after it.
I hear KotOR is nearly as epic and incredible as the original trilogy, because there's so much more they can do with all that time and aren't bound to restrictions like the JK games are.
I don't think JA should be the end of lightsaber combat in games, infact it's probably the start. I just don't want another game tacked onto the end so LEC can make more money.
Originally posted by Emon
I just don't want another game tacked onto the end so LEC can make more money. Have you really taken up that cynical view that a few here have been bashing:
- That Jedi Outcast was just a rush job to cover for the Obi-Wan PC cancellation and get *something* out?
- That Jedi Academy is just a glorified expansion pack done to milk profits?
- That the only reason it *isn't* being done as an expansion pack is because they can make more money by calling it a full game?
- That if it comes on 1 CD rather than 2, then it is to make more profit, and they cut something (cutscene quality or whatever) to make it happen?
Sure LA/Raven want to make money - ALL companies want to make money, and the people who work in them want to make money - I sure know I do! I'm not overly greedy or materialistic, but I do like giving the family a certain lifestyle. But there is a huge difference between these guys putting out some very good games and the type of pure crap that litters the game industry - movie tie-ins, endless sequels of fight or riding games.
We sit and complain about this or that detail with JA compared to JO, and along comes UT2004 - which will be a full proce tweak pack for UT2003, or the year after year NHL or NFL or Golf or whatever games, each costing $50 each. JA is giving is some really new things, and I think we ought to step back and appreciate that a bit.
Mike
Originally posted by txa1265
Have you really taken up that cynical view that a few here have been bashing:
- That Jedi Outcast was just a rush job to cover for the Obi-Wan PC cancellation and get *something* out?
- That Jedi Academy is just a glorified expansion pack done to milk profits?
- That the only reason it *isn't* being done as an expansion pack is because they can make more money by calling it a full game?
- That if it comes on 1 CD rather than 2, then it is to make more profit, and they cut something (cutscene quality or whatever) to make it happen?
Sure LA/Raven want to make money - ALL companies want to make money, and the people who work in them want to make money - I sure know I do! I'm not overly greedy or materialistic, but I do like giving the family a certain lifestyle. But there is a huge difference between these guys putting out some very good games and the type of pure crap that litters the game industry - movie tie-ins, endless sequels of fight or riding games.
We sit and complain about this or that detail with JA compared to JO, and along comes UT2004 - which will be a full proce tweak pack for UT2003, or the year after year NHL or NFL or Golf or whatever games, each costing $50 each. JA is giving is some really new things, and I think we ought to step back and appreciate that a bit.
Mike Very well put Mike. I usually find that the people who make comments like the above are young teenagers who haven't really entered the workforce yet. They don't realize that for the most part people who work for companies like the one I am at and Lucasarts also take pride in what they make. Sure, they want to make money and make a living, but they also want a make something that they can be proud of. Not only that, but scamming people and ripping them off is bad for business.
No, not at all, I don't think that about JO or JA. I'm just saying that JA is probably going to be the last game they can make without it starting to suck.
Think about what could happen after JA. Where would they get their dark Jedi from? A student goes to the dark side, takes control of the empire, trains other apprentices, make some more Reborn and tries to attack the Jedi Academy? I mean really, it would suck to have another one of those. The whole Empire and Dark Jedi revival of JO/JA is pushing it enough as it is, I don't want another one of those.
If a sequel to JA is to be made, I don't want Kyle in it. Period. It would seem like a step down from being able to customize your own character's race, clothes, appearance, etc. One idea would be having the ability to import your JA character to the sequel....how would they manage that? I have no idea, but it's a thought.
I also think creating a Star Wars game with JK2's lightsaber combat with a story line set possibly thousands of years before ANH, something like KOTOR, would be cool. I'm aware that there were some big "outcome will decide the fate of the galaxy" wars many many years before the original trilogy and if they had your Jedi character play some sort of small, yet significant role, it would be really interesting, meh just another thought. I do concur there are many more possibilities than continuing to create sequels to the Jedi Knight series.
I agree - a natural progression has been made through Five games:
- Kyle as Mercenary (DF)
- Kyle as Merc turned Jedi (JK)
- Kyle as Jedi with apprentice Mara, Mara grows into a Jedi and saves Kyle (MotS)
- Kyle as force-avoiding Merc, needs to reconnect to Jedi ways to save Jan and the galaxy (JO)
- Kyle as NPC teacher in Jedi Academy, you as a new apprentice.
All of which happens within ~10 years.
For the next game they would need to make a significant change - but note that Jedi Academy already represents a significant change in that it isn't about Kyle. So they can do it, it is a question of what it will look like. They are Star Wars fans like us, they won't want it to suck.
Mike
my 2 cents ...
don't do a sequel to jedi academy, to a prequel to this whole series, and play as morgan katarn or that jedi guy killed by jerec. i'd buy that for a dollar.
:D
I too would like to see something from before ANH - maybe set 10 years before phantom menace - you could apprentice with Yoda or something.
Regarding a Jedi Master sequel - I agree that the ramping up of powers relates to one's experience with the game - but I do think it would work well as an expansion pack to either JA or whatever project is next.
I'd say I'd agree with a prequel like setting to Dark Forces, because every sci-fi is doing it now.. Star Wars, Star Trek with "Enterprise" (Ducks the avid flames from anti-star trek fans) and the alike. I'd say Raven could venture into coming to explain on how it all leads up to the Rebels hiring Kyle Katarn because as we learn, Kyle was going to get the Death Star Plans, which could tie in Episode 2 and beginning of episode 3, because when we see Katarn in Jedi Knight, he is greying due to time and aging over the course of the Star Wars OT. So that all ties in appropriately. He simply went into hiding during the OT since mercs helping the Rebels were probably sought out by the Imperial Navy for a personal interview with Darth Vader with a nice, short-lived "trial". I mean I didn't finish Dark Forces, but obviously the plans got delivered to the Rebels from Katarn after he successfully obtained them. What do you guys think?
Originally posted by Emon
I sure hope JA is the last JK game. LEC should let the JA editing community thrive for years as Jedi Knight did, then let it die and rest peacefully.
I hear KotOR is nearly as epic and incredible as the original trilogy, because there's so much more they can do with all that time and aren't bound to restrictions like the JK games are.
I have to admit that Jedi Knight did die and rest peacefully. It was and still is a great game. If JA went out that way, I would be glad that it went that way.
KOTOR looks good though. Going to buy that. And a prequel seems more logical in continuing the JK series. I mean, we got Kyle Katarn's story. It's pretty much over for him after JA. Though it will be sad for him to leave :( I vote for a Prequel! :D
Well, I hope that JA certainly is the end of the series for now. I would rather have a PRE Episode 1 FPS in which sets eyes on lightsabers on a new engine than this happening for DF3.
I don't want JA to be the end honestly, i'd like to control Kyle when that happens ( Im sick of Kyle...but only for now). But I don't want to see Kyle for another 4 years or so ^_^.
I think that Star Wars: Republic Commando is using the UT2k3 engine, and preview thingar looks nice. But I would like no more to do with the lightsaber system for JA/JO if they used a Doom 3 engine or something to that nature.
Don't get me wrong! The saber system certainly is great, but if a new game came out on a new engine, im expecting a few years or so for the game to come out. And me seeing some of the same moves as JA would not please me, even if they were spectacular.
I hope that the next major "Lightsaber" focused game is set in a KOTOR type timeline.
KOTOR had plenty of lightsaber fights, and they did it in such a way that was cool and wasn't really expected. So whenever I saw a dark jedi I was more like " oh crap I didn't expect that" unlike with JO. And it was also fun to fight non lightsaber wielding characters. Unlike JO, where as soon as I got my lightsaber I was ready to fight Reborn every 5 seconds.
It would be incredibly cool if you got to play as one of Jerec's minions, or another dark Jedi or Sith, anywhere in the timeline. LEC did this for TIE-Fighter, and that turned out to be an incredible success. It's gotten a ridiculous number of Game of the Year and Best Game Ever awards it's not even funny. It's also argued to be the best space simulation ever created.
no agrue about it, it is!
Originally posted by Andy867
Star Trek with "Enterprise" (Ducks the avid flames from anti-star trek fans)
...
I didn't finish Dark Forces
...
What do you guys think?
Well, I think you'd be better to watch out for not finishing Dark Forces ;) ... from the Enterprise folks you should watch out for projectile vomiting ... :D
There are a couple of things in your idea - one I could see a 'Dark Forces IV: Kyle Katarn, Rebel Mercenary' taking place during the OT and putting Kyle as a gun weilder into various semi-familiar situations. It would be interesting if he got some amount of Force powers slowly during the game - ending up <level one, perhaps only speed and sense, and possibly aim. In Shatterpoint, the recent Mace Windu novel, Mace can sense the aim points of blasters ... cool.
The other one would be some type of Jedi-oriented game ... that would be much tougher. You could easily do something say 25 - 50 years before Episode I, and then you'd have to visit the Jedi Council and such ...
Mike
To be quite honest, I like Kyle to a point, but I wouldn't want to have to try to prolong his life span. Lets not go prequel with Kyle, lets just do sequels, until there is nothing more to really be done ( which hopefully is JK3).
Like I said, don't get me wrong, but a new fps concerning guns only should really just have someone else in it. Maybe you could be a rookie stormtrooper on his rise to admiral, or a rookie rebel. But an FPS is already being made ( which im sure will be guns only), called Republic Commando ( I think this is correct), and you are a clone trooper. Which will bring more battles and warish scenes imo. Hopefully we'll see actual gameplay footage or screens soon.
Concerning a more lightsaber oriented game, I don't think ANYTHING after ROTJ would be a good idea really. Or anything in between ANH and ROTJ. All you manage to do is make extremely stupid ideas as to why your jedi is fighting other dark jedi.
( DF2 had a good idea that I liked, but its been used, and can be used no more.)
They could probably find a rational reason, but why not simply do a clonewars or something near the KOTOR timeset. Then you wouldn't have to come up with bogus stories ( I mean...come on, it's obvious the only reason clones were used in JO was so that they'd have an excuse to throw saber wielding enemies toward you.).
But if they used the Clone Wars timeline, they could obviously say that at least a few jedi fell to the darkside in such dark times. And while you wouldn't face to many Dark Jedi, you'd at least face a few, perhaps as bosses. And anywhere near the KOTOR timeline pretty much MUST have dark jedi present, so its sugar sweet anyway you look at it.
Personally, I think it's a welcome change to have Kyle as a master in JA. He's not a 'real' Jedi, but a bit unpredictable, which other Jedi also had, suchs as Qui-Gon Jinn :) I think I'll have more sympathy for him in a master role, instead of a playable Jedi!
Originally posted by Emon
It would be incredibly cool if you got to play as one of Jerec's minions, or another dark Jedi or Sith, anywhere in the timeline. LEC did this for TIE-Fighter, and that turned out to be an incredible success. It's gotten a ridiculous number of Game of the Year and Best Game Ever awards it's not even funny. It's also argued to be the best space simulation ever created.
I totally agree...and I was going to post something along those lines until I saw you'd brought it up.
There's no reason at all why you could not have a Dark Jedi game, where as an apprentice you discovered old Sith relics and from the very beginning of the game, you learn all of the old Sith ways, becoming a Sith Lord, and then actually have to find a suitable recruit to act as your own apprentice. That way...you would have plenty of 'light' Jedi to battle (those who have gone through Luke's Jedi Academy), and the aim of the game would be to carry out some nefarious plan. And because the Sith are secretive, working in the shadows to fulfill their ends, you could incorporate a lot more stealth into the gameplay, and manipulation of innocents to your own ends.
There is just so much scope to become a Dark or Fallen Jedi, and of course you could explore a few 'dark' scenarios to continue the JK series.
And the natural 'further' progression for the 'light' Jedi is to move away from tons of saber combat...and place the Jedi back into the role of peace-keepers and envoys. Using your lightsaber to defend others from non-Jedi opponents, and using your Force powers more often to your advantage in difficult situations. It might not sound as much fun as hacking and slashing your way through hordes of Dark Jedi...but with a solid plot and game mechanics, it would be no less enjoyable in my view. I don't see a reason why there cannot be a return to having just a small handful of dark Jedi opponents, even less than we saw in JK, because you can set the game up in such a way that you can encounter the same Dark Jedi a few times. After all, that happened with Yun in JK (if you chose the Dark path). And in Episode I, Qui-Gon tackled Darth Maul on Tatooine and then escaped to fight another day. There's no reason why your 'light side' character could not suffer crushing defeat at the hands of a Dark Jedi, but manages to escape to fight again...and perhaps even a third time.
So in my view it doesn't have to be lots of Dark Jedi coming at you...just a few really tough ones who can escape, and then pop up later on. Meanwhile, they can be engaged in some other 'dark' plan to attack the New Republic, and try to swing the balance back in favour of the 'Remnant', or establish their own 'New Order' (not Force sensitive - just a large army of fanatics like the Empire was before)...
Again, there is a great deal of scope.
So the bottom line is...I really hope Jedi Academy is not the last game in this series, because with continued creativity, they can introduce fresh ideas, and move away from scenarios already explored in the previous games. It just takes imagination, and the will to succeed.
When are they going to start making games based on the NJO series? The Yuuzhan Vong are rough, tough, we've never fought them before (in a game) and with the amphistaffs, there's plenty of chances for duels, etc.
I hope it's the last. We wouldn't want the story to go too far and start introducing Vongs.
AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHH!! NO VONG!!! NO VONG!!!:swear:
Uh, errrr, I mean...
I don't think it would be a good idea to introduce the Yuzzhan Vong or any other NJO aspects into the series. For one thing, many folks haven't read the NJO books and would be confused with the changes. Furthermore, a sizable portion of Star Wars fans (myself included) do not like the NJO series and would not buy any Star Wars game that would have that trash. (I mean "content ;) ) Anyway, I know that the Vong issue has been addressed before in other threads, so I won't beat a dead horse.
NJO games are fine as long as they are entirely seperate from the series.
I myself encourage any new SW games as long as they dont interrupt the work on other SW games.
An NJO series would be welcome , though it should be in the form of an rpg or something. Primarily PC ^_^.
Originally posted by Reprehence
I too would like to see something from before ANH - maybe set 10 years before phantom menace - you could apprentice with Yoda or something. I like the idea of playing a JK-style games based at that time, but I don't want it to be a part of the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series. To me JK is about Kyle at various stages of his life (even if it is only as an NPC instructor). If the game is going to be moved out of that timeframe and doesn't involve Kyle, I'd rather if be under a different series.
Originally posted by Patton
When are they going to start making games based on the NJO series? The Yuuzhan Vong are rough, tough, we've never fought them before (in a game) and with the amphistaffs, there's plenty of chances for duels, etc. Have a look around these boards for discussions about why the Vong might not be viable for a Star Wars game from a marketing perspective.
I think that in jk4 you should be the same jedi learner as in jk3 but be chosen by kyle to be his padawan, not just helped by kyle like in jk3.
To be quite honest, I don't expect to see "Jaden Korr" anywhere in JK4, aside from being briefly mentioned.
HEEEEEERes an idea:
some uber-dark jedi bombs yavin 4 eliminating all jedi save kyle and himself. Then kyle and uber-dude fight on uber's ship, kyle kills uber, then the ship blows up ELIMINATING ALL JEDI LIGHT AND DARK THEREFORE ENDING STAR WARS!! (save prequals etc.)
*looks around, very frightened, as many sw fans emerge from the shadows too beat the living daylights out of me*
NOW there's an idea!:rolleyes:
When are they going to start making games based on the NJO series? The Yuuzhan Vong are rough, tough, we've never fought them before (in a game) and with the amphistaffs, there's plenty of chances for duels, etc.
If they were to make an NJO based game with the Yuagsgfha (whatever) Vong, it most certainly couldn't be a Jedi Knight game. Why give the player all these cool Force powers when they'd be mostly useless? Unless maybe the player Jedi has miraculously found a way to use the Force against the Yuzedaha (whoever) Vong, but never got around to telling anyone about it for some reason, but that would just be stupid. A fighter sim would be a much better choice for an NJO based game.
You obviously wouldn't only be fighting the Vong, there are other things to fight as well, including humans and quite possibly stormtroopers if it comes down to it. The game would either have to be an extremely long FPS or long rpg though.
Also, some of the force powers wouldn't be completely useless against them. Not to mention I for one would rather see an enemy that would beat me with sword play alone ( The Vong), than some dinosaur that spams force powers at you ( Desann).
Originally posted by Obi-Wan X
The game would either have to be an extremely long FPS or long rpg though.
Long RPG? What's that ;)... Aren't ALL RPG games long?:):D
Heh its "Yuuzhan Vong". Nice attempt though. :D
Yes they are long, though it would have to be extremely long to capture the beginning of the Vong....to the end of the Vong.
Unless they decided to simply create several such games.