Server has rules? Fine.
So you understand that some servers have those rules, and you refuse to follow them? Silly as it may sound to you, the admin there has every right to kick you. It's not like he's kicking you for no reason buddy. You're the one who shouldn't be trying to force your will upon people by disobeying server rules just to piss people off.
There are different signals for seeing if an opponent is ready. The most used i've seen are the following.
Bowing
Chat Confirmation
If an opponent bows to me, indicating he's ready, then i'll bow as well, indicating the same. I don't care if he wants to do this for respect or not, either way he's showing me he's ready, and I certainly won't try to earn a cheap kill by flooding him with lightning or pushing him off a cliff. I like to earn my kills with skill to be quite honest, not because a person wasn't ready.
If someone is like " Rdy?", and I don't respond and just flood him with lightning, then guess what? Thats lame. If my preference is bowing for indication that im ready, and someone floods me with lightning. Then sure...I may think its lame, but the other person may not, because he may not believe in bowing for "readiness", so I won't whine.
BUT... if I chat, asking if he's ready and he doesn't respond and immediately uses lightning on me, then i'll probably say something about that. Chat indication is a CLEAR way for both players to know if a person is ready.
If you believe in simply flooding with a force power once a person questions if your ready in chat speak, then thats cheap.
The thing is....if its an NF lightsaber duel, then I actually like to use bow as an indication that im ready. If I bow and the person runs at me to slash and I just sat there dumbfounded and died...then thats my fault. Its idiocy. If a person runs toward you with a saber...he's ready. But like I said, I like to use bow as an indication on nf duel servers. The person will almost always try to use a DFA on me, and i'll get out of the way and take him out extremely quickly, already knowing what he was about to do.
Bah...so much rant
In short...these are my beliefs
Killing when someone uses chat to ask you if your ready = Cheap
Being attacked by bowing = Not
And if you bow during FFA...its stupid. Unless you initiate in a "k" duel, but you should already be ready to be attacked. Haha, I think its funny. I've actually seen a person bowing to every opponent he came across in an FFA match before attacking.
Originally posted by GC256
So you understand that some servers have those rules, and you refuse to follow them? Silly as it may sound to you, the admin there has every right to kick you. It's not like he's kicking you for no reason buddy. You're the one who shouldn't be trying to force your will upon people by disobeying server rules just to piss people off.
I would have been more than content to let you guys play in your happy little "Ok this gesture signifies I am ready to proceed with combat in an honorable way" world and never bother any of you.
Problem was, as it has been established time and time again, these people felt the need to try to force people to follow this nonsense wherever they went.
That means they left those servers with “established rules” and started going out harassing players on public servers that had no established rules.
So if it seems like "lamers" are now coming to your servers for the sole purpose of pissing you off, good observation. They are.
People are sick of having this stuff crammed down their throats and are finally doing something to prevent it from rearing it's ugly head in the new game soon to be out.
I mean really guy think about it.
You’re a 13 year old kid who just got JK2 for his birthday.
You’ve played many online games before so it’s not like you’re a newbie who is playing his first mp game.
You fire up mp, connect to a server for the first time and wow, your first fight!
You run up and whack some dude with a saber and…. 4 seconds later you are suspended in mid air being choked and called a **ggot lamer noob by the admin.
Ok, gay server, try another.
Same result.
Repeat.
Repeat.
Repeat.
Finally out of frustration you quit and say screw this crap, how the hell am I supposed to enjoy this?
That is exactly how I would have felt if I started JK2 in the last 6 months. I would have uninstalled it and tossed the cd in the trash because I know I sure as hell would not pay $50 just to be ****ed with by admins because I did nothing more than try to play the damn game.
And while JA is going to have a lot of returning players, there will be a lot of new ones and if you want anything more in this community than a bunch of bitter angry little trolls and their silly codes of honor after the first 6 months maybe you should let them play the game this time and not give them crap for it.
exactly
also
There are different signals for seeing if an opponent is ready.
my favorite is seeing the player move. its kind of hard to see at first but if you practice you can get good at it
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
me disconnects and happy to know another pack or RPG noobs have been frustrated to the brink of a mental melt down over a silly video game. [sarcastic rant]Silly video game?? You 5ux0rs! Don't you gay d00ds know that JO is about Jedi honoR? It is bout folloing teh Jedi Code which teaches us to show respect to all hte other Jedi! are you a newB?? This does not mean being polite and not verbally abusing people on teh server, but hitting the crouch key and tilting your torso forward. That shows respect!!1! That means that saber down = peace!1!! That means when someone hasn't bowed taht means they aren't ready to fight with honour! They are still setting up thier binds to sit and kiss! Then they cna sit and kiss and be honourble Jedi. If someone lames me with a move I cannot avoid, the jedi Code says, "Thou shalt call them gay and lame. Thou shalt not learn to counter the moves of lameness because then thou wilt be counted amoung those who are gay. Thou shalt extinguish thy honourable lightsaber and delare upon high thus saying 'Oh ye of lame moves. Thy lack of skillz shows thou hast no honour. Thy newbish ways requires thou shalt be smote from this server.' Once the lame newb has been smoten, thou shat use thy sit bind to meditate and know that thou has honourably defeated another gay pagan who did not see thy most honourable light." [/sarcastic rant] :rolleyes: :)
Originally posted by Mith[OmNi]
I'm talking about NF Duel servers moron. In FFA I couldn't care less if people bow or not. Why are the two different? Why is dueling a "more honourable" gametype? Isn't the goal of both to defeat your opponant?
Originally posted by Mith[OmNi]
Roleplaying? Who said anything about Roleplaying? Rushing your opponent when he has a chat sign above his head at the beginning of the duel is a sad way to win. Its not about "honor", its about respect. Respect for your opponent. Why is it a sad way to win? Many people just want to play to rack up the frags. Why is taking an advantage of someone leaving themselves open sad? I don't play for those reasons, but many do, and it is perfectly valid. You are trying to apply your reasons for why you play to other people, and it doesn't work. That is why the whole "honour" system in JO doesn't work. The only respect and honour system that does work is being polite and not verbally bashing someone.
Originally posted by Mith[OmNi]
When I kill someone in a duel, I want them to be able to say: "Wow, he has great skills" not "He rushed-killed me while I was trying to ask him a question". Again, not everyone plays to try and show skilled they are. Because they have different goals, they are going to play the game differently than you are.
Originally posted by Mith[OmNi]
If an opponent runs at me swinging his saber without bowing, I don't bow to him and then whine about it... I automatically assume he's never played before, and I'm always right. LOL. So anyone who doesn't bow has never played the game before? I guess people sign up for ladders and so on without ever having played before. And when someone logs onto a server and bows, thus leaving themselves open, many people assume that they are new to the game, because who would be foolish enough to leave themselves so open right at the beginning of the game? Since the goal of the gametype is to defeat your opponant, turning off your weapon and looking at the ground is a silly way to start, isn't it. :)
Originally posted by Mith[OmNi]
On Duel servers, all bowing is a sign that says: "Yes I'm ready. Bring it" You shouldn't attack unless your opponent attacks you, or gives some indication that he's prepared. I ALWAYS bow to my opponent. I never really understood why people have to set all their settings up after the game has started. Especially on a server with more than two people there is really no need for this. Players should be ready to play as soon as their turn comes up. It can be quite annoying for those waiting to have the someone who is supposed to be playing have a chat box above their head. They should have been ready to play! :)
And I think ryudom put it well when he said, "my favorite is seeing the player move. its kind of hard to see at first but if you practice you can get good at it."
Personally, I think the community would be in a lot better shape (and would be better able to attact new players) if everyone was just nice to each other instead of trying to enforce a silly code od honour. I think it has been shown at length that the goal of the honour system has not been achieved, and actually has backfired. It has done more to fragment the JO community than anything else, IMO. But I suppose politeness is never going to happen either :(
Personally, I think the community would be in a lot better shape (and would be better able to attact new players) if everyone was just nice to each other instead of trying to enforce a silly code od honour.
Amen :D
Well hopefully we can get rid of the honor codes during the early months of JA. Though I feel it will forever plague the JO/JA series.
It is truly amazing how hypocritical the fanboy community is. They preach honor and respect and that you're suppose to fight fair and not use any combos that aren't in the manual.
But the truth is that the people mentioned above are the worst kind of players. They will attack you saber down and bitch when you kill them, they are in no way willing to learn combos besides the 3 swing red one, and some how believe pull/kick is cheaper than becoming empowered and gripping you.
Unnamed shows more respect for his fellow gamer than 99.9% of the fanboys out there by simply answering questions about combos and and being helpful to newbies(new to the game).
Here is a shell shocker for mith, GC, and everyone else with like minds...
And he doesn't bow :eek:.
The odd thing is.. I've never seen a jedi in the movie bow... the nearest thing to honor they have is allowing each other time to take their robes off and turn their saber on...
I'm personally sick of the rare times of joining a server finding everyone standing around with their sabers off and being forced to duel and only duel.
Is this "bowing" when they do that weird crouchy bob thing..?
My form of honour is laughing when I make a silly mistake, complimenting someone who whooped my ass with a cool combo and being generally cheerful to all..
I won't kill someone standing around with a chat box over their head or with their saber off (unless they do nothing BUT stand around otherwise I will decapitate them).. if their saber snaps on and they charge me, all the more fun. As for RPGs.. weeeell...
Prehaps someone remembers old Jedi knight RPGs.. they were fun... golden days..
Originally posted by ryudom
exactly
also
my favorite is seeing the player move. its kind of hard to see at first but if you practice you can get good at it
i always wondered about this thing that happens in FFA duels and duel gametype.
it says begin and prints it on their screens. WTF is that?
Originally posted by Rumor
i always wondered about this thing that happens in FFA duels and duel gametype.
it says begin and prints it on their screens. WTF is that?
dunno never see it. I'm usually blinded by the 47 multi colored lines of rules telling me about all the things I'm not allowed to do in the motd...
Please don't assume that this person is more honorable than who just by what they say here. I didn't feel it was important to say that I go out of my way to help people who are new at the game. Thanks.
Unnamed, I remember the good old days, when JK2 first came out, no admins getting in the way. It hasn't been the same since they started showing up. Unlike you however, I like to make the best of things. I don't go complaining about it and insulting people in online forums or threaten to throw my game away if it doesn't stop. I just accept it and move on. And if you don't have enough will power to follow simple rules in a server, (not any of the pull or grip kick nonsense in FFA's) then there's no chance of JA ever getting rid of the honor thing. Complaining the way you are and also going onto 'h0n0r' servers to piss them off is not helping anything, as much as you think it will. When someone like you comes into a server, and an admin kicks that person, the people there feel better about what they're doing. So why not try to be a little *less* offensive. I'm not asking you to sit down with them and kiss and have tea, but just don't go out of your way to bother them and you'll gradually notice a difference.
It's working on me so far ;).
EDIT: Just as easily I got used to the bowing thing, I could get used to not bowing.
Originally posted by GC256
Unnamed, I remember the good old days, when JK2 first came out, no admins getting in the way. It hasn't been the same since they started showing up.
agreed. and like many others here have agreed, admin mods played a big part in that.
sure they may not have been intended for annoying 12 year olds to use as a tool to **** w/ other players but that is exactly what 75% of them use the punishment commands for.
It may have been intended to "keep order" but in reality it's more like "HAHAHAHAHA YOU ***GOT I MADE YOU INTO A BUNNY!!11 I OWN YOUR ASS!111"
I just accept it and move on.
I possess a backbone and was raised not to conform to things if I don't believe in them, that's not an option for me.
*that was not an insult, just my way of saying I'm very hard headed.
;)
(not any of the pull or grip kick nonsense in FFA's)
uhh right, I’m not even going to lay into that one, far too easy.
Complaining the way you are and also going onto 'h0n0r' servers to piss them off is not helping anything, as much as you think it will.
Sure about that?
I see all of maybe two people taking your side out of the 100 or so replies in this thread.
Thing is guy, we *tried like hell to "turn the other cheek" and all we got for it over the last year was an /amslap to the face.
And really, I seriously think you are missing the point I'm trying to make with my attitude towards the bowing/honor stuff.
I am 100% all for people being civil to each other.
I view "respect" in an online game as just treating people like you would if you were speaking to them in person.
I'm not going to make racial slurs to some kid at the check out counter at Wal-Mart and I see no reason to do it to a stranger in an online game either.
You ask me for directions on the street, I'll help you.
You ask me how to do a combo in a game, I'll help you.
But you (not you, I just mean people in general) start insulting me for no reason, online or not you're going to get an "eph-yew" from me.
And really, I find the whole "conform to MY way of what JK2 should be or I kick/ban/vote you off/sleep/slap" mentality to be quite insulting.
I 100% agree that if you provide a server you can do what ever you like on it.
I don't have a problem with the true role players in JK2 because they don't bother anyone. When they want to RPG, they go to places where others RPG and do so.
What they do not do is go to a friggen CTF server and start voting people off because they won't stop playing the game and pretend to be space bar tenders.
The saber off = peace crowd does just that. No matter where they go they expect others to conform to what they view as the GOD given "rules" of JK2.
Hell go dig up some of those old -SC- threads from 1.02.
The whole bow/honor/saber code stuff started out as something to be *spread to and enforced on public servers buy a bunch of people who felt it was their duty to tell others how they should behave and play.
I mean really, would you guys like it if come JA all the competitive players banned together and started kicking people and banning them from the servers we run because you bowed before a duel?
What about ganging up to beat the hell out of players or voting people off on public servers simply because they said "gf" after a duel?
Sounds pretty damn silly right?
So does getting banned from a public server and/or being insulted for attacking a player just because his little reborn/boss model did not have his saber up…
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
[B]agreed. and like many others here have agreed, admin mods played a big part in that.
sure they may not have been intended for annoying 12 year olds to use as a tool to **** w/ other players but that is exactly what 75% of them use the punishment commands for.
It may have been intended to "keep order" but in reality it's more like "HAHAHAHAHA YOU ***GOT I MADE YOU INTO A BUNNY!!11 I OWN YOUR ASS!111"
I get the point, you've said this continously. Again, you can't speak for everyone, but I do agree that the majority of admins are exactly like you said.
I possess a backbone...
Sorry, I did take that as an insult. I have a backbone too! :(. ;).What I meant was, if you can't change it, why worry about it. It's called going with the flow. You should try it sometime, great for stress.
...and was raised not to conform to things if I don't believe in them, that's not an option for me.
To each their own. This is a videogame by the way.
Sure about that?
I see all of maybe two people taking your side out of the 100 or so replies in this thread.
You can't use this forum as a tool to get a census of how the majority of people play. Like you've said yourself, or someone has, most people haven't heard of this forum. (I found it just by chance). On top of that, people may not speak up with all the complaining in here (both sides ;)).
Thing is guy, we *tried like hell to "turn the other cheek" and all we got for it over the last year was an /amslap to the face.
Of course you're gonna get a slap to the face for disobeying rules, with good admins at least. Most admins do give you warnings.
And really, I seriously think you are missing the point I'm trying to make with my attitude towards the bowing/honor stuff.
Same goes for you.
I am 100% all for people being civil to each other.
I view "respect" in an online game as just treating people like you would if you were speaking to them in person.
I'm not going to make racial slurs to some kid at the check out counter at Wal-Mart and I see no reason to do it to a stranger in an online game either.
You ask me for directions on the street, I'll help you.
You ask me how to do a combo in a game, I'll help you.
But you (not you, I just mean people in general) start insulting me for no reason, online or not you're going to get an "eph-yew" from me.
You've already said this and I understood it before... what are you trying to say?
And really, I find the whole "conform to MY way of what JK2 should be or I kick/ban/vote you off/sleep/slap" mentality to be quite insulting.
Again, you've said this, and I understood. I still think you're wrong. It's really the other way around. People can't follow you around and tell you what to do, and since you're so heavy headed (not an insult, you said it yourself) it shouldn't affect you. On top of that, admins can't follow you around and ban you in whatever server they want. They don't have passwords for all servers and no one's out to get you. You have to come to them.
I 100% agree that if you provide a server you can do what ever you like on it.
Finally, we agree on something ;).
I don't have a problem with the true role players in JK2 because they don't bother anyone. When they want to RPG, they go to places where others RPG and do so.
What they do not do is go to a friggen CTF server and start voting people off because they won't stop playing the game and pretend to be space bar tenders.
The saber off = peace crowd does just that. No matter where they go they expect others to conform to what they view as the GOD given "rules" of JK2.
Most servers I play in aren't basejk and/or have voting disabled, you should find servers like that.
The whole bow/honor/saber code stuff started out as something to be *spread to and enforced on public servers buy a bunch of people who felt it was their duty to tell others how they should behave and play.
I wasn't here, and I'm too lazy so I'll take your word for it.
I mean really, would you guys like it if come JA all the competitive players banned together and started kicking people and banning them from the servers we run because you bowed before a duel?
I agree. But if it's a rule, I wouldn't do it. I don't have too much time to waste so I wouldn't be going in servers bowing just to piss people off and get kicked. If I was so set on bowing even though I would be banned, I'd just find servers that let me bow whenever I wanted.
What about ganging up to beat the hell out of players or voting people off on public servers simply because they said "gf" after a duel?
Read above. I don't see how difficult it is to press the C button. Even if you do it before you challenge someone. Once the duel starts, it wouldn't be that different for you. I mean I understand standing up for what you believe in but over a split second thing? In a videogame no less.
Originally posted by GC256
[B]To each their own. This is a videogame by the way.
[B]
Something the others fail to grasp, by the way, but you fail to see it so why bother.
You can't use this forum as a tool to get a census of how the majority of people play. Like you've said yourself, or someone has, most people haven't heard of this forum. (I found it just by chance). On top of that, people may not speak up with all the complaining in here (both sides ;)).
No, but we can come here and listen to arguements that makes me wonder if the other party is even listening or just has repetition go in one ear and out the other
Of course you're gonna get a slap to the face for disobeying rules, with good admins at least. Most admins do give you warnings.
Once again, failure to acknowledge a point and also lack of knowledge in how most admins conduct their business in their servers.
Again, you've said this, and I understood. I still think you're wrong. It's really the other way around. People can't follow you around and tell you what to do, and since you're so heavy headed (not an insult, you said it yourself) it shouldn't affect you. On top of that, admins can't follow you around and ban you in whatever server they want. They don't have passwords for all servers and no one's out to get you. You have to come to them.
Want to bet? I have been banned from other servers just by word of mouth because I opened a can on a different server. Once again, chalk above comment up to lack of prior knowledge.
Most servers I play in aren't basejk and/or have voting disabled, you should find servers like that.
Ignorance again, gg.
I wasn't here, and I'm too lazy so I'll take your word for it.
*insert lack of prior knowledge comment here*
I agree. But if it's a rule, I wouldn't do it. I don't have too much time to waste so I wouldn't be going in servers bowing just to piss people off and get kicked. If I was so set on bowing even though I would be banned, I'd just find servers that let me bow whenever I wanted.
zzzZZZzzz... You're putting me to sleep again. Chalk this up to lack of prior knowledge AND ignorance, again.
Read above. I don't see how difficult it is to press the C button. Even if you do it before you challenge someone. Once the duel starts, it wouldn't be that different for you. I mean I understand standing up for what you believe in but over a split second thing? In a videogame no less.
Good going, your arguement completely beats around the bush AND acquires the typical attitude of the "do this, do this, and do this." And I quote earlier passage.
That argument, the imposition of a persons will upon others is the very reason why that whole *ASC* thing got started.
Also, I'm starting to get weary of the "it's my server, I do whatever the **** I want" arguement because most of the time, the owner or designated admin are 13 year old whining *****es that live in their own little dream world. Case and point, look at Mith's line of post.
I'm tired of refuting each of these points, because every time we do it ends up being as I said above, "do this, do this, etc."
To each their own, bow all you like.
Just make sure you bring a book to read while you sit in spec mode after being killed (duel servers tend to have pretty long lines when the game was popular/launched).
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
To each their own, bow all you like.
Just make sure you bring a book to read while you sit in spec mode after being killed (duel servers tend to have pretty long lines when the game was popular/launched).
And if you're playing 1.02, don't plan on changing your force config when you're in the first waiting to duel slot.
I always bow. I never kill people with a text thing above there head. I also never kill people with there saber down.
I'm the ignorant one? Whatever guys. I try to come here with an open mind, I even say that I'm slowly changing to agree with you guys, and Blackrose insults me and fails to give anything a decent response. And I'm the ignorant one. You act like you've been to every server in the game, which you have not. If you would've came to my server, you would've seen that there is no abuse whatsoever. Oh well, it was worth a try.
By the way, thanks for speaking up Sith. There's countless more people like him and I, if you weren't so ignorant not to see it and base everything on what goes on at these forums.
While im not to much in favor of honor, if a server specifically says " Bow before each duel" or " Don't kill when saber off" then you SHOULD be kicked when you fail to follow these rules.
No matter how "foolish" the rules may be, YOU were the one who chose to join the server.
Of course people may come in your servers and whine and the like, but im just talking about joining these types of servers.
if you can't change it, why worry about it
you CAN change it, and thats what uj and rad are doing here. if some fanboys can wreck it then why can't we fix it.
Originally posted by GC256
I'm the ignorant one? Whatever guys. I try to come here with an open mind, I even say that I'm slowly changing to agree with you guys, and Blackrose insults me and fails to give anything a decent response. And I'm the ignorant one. You act like you've been to every server in the game, which you have not. If you would've came to my server, you would've seen that there is no abuse whatsoever. Oh well, it was worth a try.
I would wonder which server that is, then we could see for ourselves....but wait, I already know your response to this, and that is that you think that folks like unamed and rad are going to go and cause havoc in your server if you do release the name of the server.
Well I do try to obey the server rules regardless of how I've started to view those rules after listening to the opinions of the fk clan and the shockwave clan and they're followers. In the past couple of months they've started an uprising and I'll say that they've certainly changed my perspective on things, I would/will give competitive play a whirl once I get a new computer in the winter. What I find most interesting is that 99.9 % of everything the anti saberist code folks have explained and brought forth makes sense to me. It's a video game, this respect and bowing jargon is really quite ridiculous imo, I don't have much else to say because there isn't much else to say that would benefit this thread.
score one for the good guys.
:cool:
I doubt I'll start playing competetively once JA comes out. I'm too much of a play-for-fun guy... I do not have the patience you need to win a drain-duel. I don't have the time needed to be actively involved in clans and matches.
But who knows... perhaps I'll pick up CTF. It seems to be the gametype that has the least HONOR and idiots whining about it.
For crying out loud: Grow up. The lot of you. The lack of respect in here is amazing.
"Chat-killing is lame." "Bowing's for n00bs." Gee, they're a couple of strong points, and coming up with a rebuttal for them is going to be difficult, although "You are ignorant" seems to be the most commonly used in this miserable excuse for a thread.
Personally, when I played Multiplayer (I stick to map-making now) I'd abide by whatever rules the server dictates. If there isn't a server available that you like, how about making one of your own? Of course, you can stay here and whine like immature brats in the Jedi Academy forum if you'd prefer. Perhaps you could reasonably prove your point in logical debate as opposed to all this pointless mudslinging if you wish to continue this line of "discussion."
This thread is both off-topic and a disgrace to the Jedi Knight dot Net forums. I came to the Jedi Academy forums to see what people thought of the upcoming game, not listen to people blather mindlessly about their JK2 multiplayer grudges. I should've known that this thread would be a complete waste of my time by the Subject Header.
obviously you haven't been paying attention. i suggest you re-read the thread.
I'm well aware that the subject is Honor and jedi academy (
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=107827), but all I read in this "thread" were gripes about current MP servers, such as:
Like the others said, if your idea of “serious” servers are only the little saber off = peace isolated RPG play grounds then I feel sorry for you.
And yes, they think the silly little RPG saber rules the newbies follow are… well silly.
and
I'm talking about NF Duel servers moron. In FFA I couldn't care less if people bow or not.
I don't know about you, ryudom, but that sounds like negative talk about current MP servers to me, and not talk aboutJedi Academy (
http://www.lucasarts.com/products/jediacademy/).
<Sarcasm>It's been nice, positive feedback you've been giving eachother, too. very constructive.</Sarcasm>
If there isn't a server available that you like, how about making one of your own?
I came to the Jedi Academy forums to see what people thought of the upcoming game, not listen to people blather mindlessly about their JK2 multiplayer grudges.
talk about backwards logic. if you want to preach the first statement, then how can you make the second? if you don't like the thread, don't read it. Or better yet, how about making one of your own?
Perhaps you could reasonably prove your point in logical debate as opposed to all this pointless mudslinging if you wish to continue this line of "discussion."
Some if not most of us have been, but go ahead and paint us all with a broad brush. I guess the second someone, anyone throws a single flame in any thread it becomes invalid. I concede that the thread has taken a harsh tone, but such is the way of life and debating.
I'm well aware that the subject is Honor and jedi academy, but all I read in this "thread" were gripes about current MP servers, such as:
Well, then read harder. The gripes about JK2 are an asset to the argument regarding JK3. We're trying to talk about the problem of some players imposing their ideas of the way things should be done upon others, and how we want more than anything for this NOT to continue to jedi academy.
I admit that some people (but definitely not most people) have refrained from flaming in their posts in this thread, but those who have managed to tarnish it for the rest. I felt that a "broad brush" was the best way to address the situation, and that I'd state my disgust of the contents of this thread.
I fail to see how telling people how they should play Jedi Outcast has any bearing on what Raven should put into Jedi Academy. You can't make someone not saber you if you have your lightsaber down just as you can't stop people from attacking you if you have your saber down (I'm using the "Saber down = peace" argument because it seems to have featured highly in this thread). Hence my suggestion for those spoiling for a fight in the forums make their own servers and leave eachother alone in here.
And Intrepid_JKII, you're right. I've expressed my opinion on the whole sordid affair, clarified through a few follow-up posts, and am now letting it rest. You'll notice that I've actually kept out of the discussion other than to say it's too rowdy to be productive.
I've had my say. Continue your pointless fighting over something that could so easily be fixed by creating your own server (in JK2 and the upcoming JA) if you wish.
:gben: The Force will be with you, always.
Originally posted by Chewie Bakker
"Chat-killing is lame." "Bowing's for n00bs." Gee, they're a couple of strong points, and coming up with a rebuttal for them is going to be difficult, although "You are ignorant" seems to be the most commonly used in this miserable excuse for a thread.
Here's a tip for you: use the search engine, then proceed to look through any and all past posts involving server rules, laming, Anti-Saberist Code, Saberist Code, and any other thing you want to throw in there, and you will see that the rebuttal has been said so many times, there's no more blood coming from the stone. So please, cut your holier than thou attitude and have a nice glass of STFU.
Personally, when I played Multiplayer (I stick to map-making now) I'd abide by whatever rules the server dictates. If there isn't a server available that you like, how about making one of your own? Of course, you can stay here and whine like immature brats in the Jedi Academy forum if you'd prefer. Perhaps you could reasonably prove your point in logical debate as opposed to all this pointless mudslinging if you wish to continue this line of "discussion."
Ditto to Intrepid's reply, backwards logic.
This thread is both off-topic and a disgrace to the Jedi Knight dot Net forums. I came to the Jedi Academy forums to see what people thought of the upcoming game, not listen to people blather mindlessly about their JK2 multiplayer grudges. I should've known that this thread would be a complete waste of my time by the Subject Header.
Please, who died and made you the head honcho? As I said in the above quote, lose the holier than thou attitude and start downing that STFU.
EDIT: MB tags
I've had my say. Continue your pointless fighting over something that could so easily be fixed by creating your own server (in JK2 and the upcoming JA) if you wish
that creating your own server argument is BS. first of all, alot of people can't create there own server. secondly, who is going to play in your server if the fanboys have imposed their ideas on all the players. thirdly, one of the points made was honor freaks coming on to others servers and kicking people that don't abid by their rules.
Rad BlackRose has demonstrated the sort of garbage that I'm talking about.
I'm well aware of the countless ASC posts there have been in regards to the objection of 'saber off = peace' (which is something I don't agree to, by the way), the SC posts which started this whole fiasco, and the concept of 'laming.' I'm also well aware that this is a forum dedicated to Jedi Academy, not the multiplayer feuds of JK2.
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
So please, cut your holier than thou attitude and have a nice glass of STFU.
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
Please, who died and made you the head honcho? As I said in the above quote, lose the holier than thou attitude and start downing that STFU.
Someone pulls you up on your immaturity and they all-of-a-sudden have a "holier than thou" attitude, and you tell them to shut the #%&@ up? This only confirms my earlier statements. There is no argument there, just hostility. Congratulations, Rad Blackrose.
:confused: (
http://www.lucasforums.com/member2.php?action=usub&threadid=107827) Please feel free to flame away, as you just did. Such assaults will be falling upon deaf ears.
Rad...your attitude and insulting manner to other members is unwarranted, and not appreciated. That goes for some others too. Feel free to disagree with someone else's point of view, but don't insult them while doing it.
I've let this thread stay open so far, even though some comments are hard. But let's just cool it down, eh, people? If you start throwing flames around, this thread will roast in 'closed thread' limbo...
As far as 'stopping' people from playing the way they want...good luck. Raven have already stated that in terms of JA they just build the game, and it's up to the community to decide how they want to play it. You can't stop people from doing stuff on servers that they're not supposed to, until you kick/ban them. The RP and Honour stuff is likely to continue (it not actively expand) in JA, so I guess the answer is, as always, get a group together and start your own server to play by your own particular rules. If you don't agree with the rules of a particular server...well, I don't know about you, but if it's not the way I want to play, I just leave. Simple as that. The same goes for servers with egotistical Admins out for their own gratification.
Anyway, instead of trading insults and bitching about the current situation, why not get proactive, and constructive, and pull together into 'groups' to set up servers run by your own rules - then maybe we can all agree to 'stick to our own turf'. Sure, I know...not everyone's going to do that, and there will always be someone out to spoil someone else's fun...but it's a start, and there's still the kick/ban option for troublemakers.
Maybe it would also be a good idea to have somewhere for people to post about particular servers, with more defined sets of rules for playing on those servers. You get X amount of info when you join a server, but it's often still not enough, and doesn't take into consideration some of the 'rules of play' adopted by regulars.
Bottom line...have some more respect for other members who post here. After all, this place is a community, not a Free For All. Thanks. :cool:
Originally posted by Chewie Bakker
Rad BlackRose has demonstrated the sort of garbage that I'm talking about.
I'm well aware of the countless ASC posts there have been in regards to the objection of 'saber off = peace' (which is something I don't agree to, by the way), the SC posts which started this whole fiasco, and the concept of 'laming.' I'm also well aware that this is a forum dedicated to Jedi Academy, not the multiplayer feuds of JK2.
Someone pulls you up on your immaturity and they all-of-a-sudden have a "holier than thou" attitude, and you tell them to shut the #%&@ up? This only confirms my earlier statements. There is no argument there, just hostility. Congratulations, Rad Blackrose.
:confused: (
http://www.lucasforums.com/member2.php?action=usub&threadid=107827) Please feel free to flame away, as you just did. Such assaults will be falling upon deaf ears.
*insert eyeroll here*
Yeah, there's open hostility over people who come here thinking they can spout utter fallacies then expect not to get hammered back.
Since this board opened the question, "How can we stop the honor crap" was immediately popped, and it wasn't by me either. Considering the fact that this IS a continuation of the Dark Forces series, and also considering the fact that this IS almost the same gameplay as JKII, you can bet your ass that the honor codes will be back.
But no, you come in here trying to act like a bitchy mother scolding a child, and you got burned. GC256 was one thing, but your attitude takes the cake.
EDIT:
Rad...your attitude and insulting manner to other members is unwarranted, and not appreciated. That goes for some others too. Feel free to disagree with someone else's point of view, but don't insult them while doing it.
Well, half these posts are practically flamebait...
i think storm and, to some degree, bakker, have a point. maybe instead of flamming the fanboys we should think of possible ways to convert them.
here's mine:
first you'd go to differant servers, and own some people up. but make sure you follow the server rules, somewhat (maybe bind a key to /say ready instead of bowing heh). anyway after you pwn them up and maybe give them some advice on their game, tell them of an upcoming tourney or ladder happening.
i think the key is getting them involved in some competition. i think most people on those servers are competitive, but have been brain washed with the SC. anyway it would take some work, but i'd really like to see this community turned around
Originally posted by StormHammer
Rad...your attitude and insulting manner to other members is unwarranted, and not appreciated. That goes for some others too. Feel free to disagree with someone else's point of view, but don't insult them while doing it.
I've let this thread stay open so far, even though some comments are hard. But let's just cool it down, eh, people? If you start throwing flames around, this thread will roast in 'closed thread' limbo...
As far as 'stopping' people from playing the way they want...good luck. Raven have already stated that in terms of JA they just build the game, and it's up to the community to decide how they want to play it. You can't stop people from doing stuff on servers that they're not supposed to, until you kick/ban them. The RP and Honour stuff is likely to continue (it not actively expand) in JA, so I guess the answer is, as always, get a group together and start your own server to play by your own particular rules. If you don't agree with the rules of a particular server...well, I don't know about you, but if it's not the way I want to play, I just leave. Simple as that. The same goes for servers with egotistical Admins out for their own gratification.
Anyway, instead of trading insults and bitching about the current situation, why not get proactive, and constructive, and pull together into 'groups' to set up servers run by your own rules - then maybe we can all agree to 'stick to our own turf'. Sure, I know...not everyone's going to do that, and there will always be someone out to spoil someone else's fun...but it's a start, and there's still the kick/ban option for troublemakers.
Maybe it would also be a good idea to have somewhere for people to post about particular servers, with more defined sets of rules for playing on those servers. You get X amount of info when you join a server, but it's often still not enough, and doesn't take into consideration some of the 'rules of play' adopted by regulars.
Bottom line...have some more respect for other members who post here. After all, this place is a community, not a Free For All. Thanks. :cool:
well stormie, you might as well let this thread slide. we have gotten a whole lot of flack for a year and a half about laming, etc. if they can't let it out in this thread it will just fester....people just need to get it out in the open so they can move on.
Originally posted by ryudom
i think storm and, to some degree, bakker, have a point. maybe instead of flamming the fanboys we should think of possible ways to convert them.
here's mine:
first you'd go to differant servers, and own some people up. but make sure you follow the server rules, somewhat (maybe bind a key to /say ready instead of bowing heh). anyway after you pwn them up and maybe give them some advice on their game, tell them of an upcoming tourney or ladder happening.
i think the key is getting them involved in some competition. i think most people on those servers are competitive, but have been brain washed with the SC. anyway it would take some work, but i'd really like to see this community turned around
Getting them into competition? I'm all for it.
Anyway, instead of trading insults and bitching about the current situation, why not get proactive, and constructive, and pull together into 'groups' to set up servers run by your own rules - then maybe we can all agree to 'stick to our own turf'. Sure, I know...not everyone's going to do that, and there will always be someone out to spoil someone else's fun...but it's a start, and there's still the kick/ban option for troublemakers.
Maybe it would also be a good idea to have somewhere for people to post about particular servers, with more defined sets of rules for playing on those servers. You get X amount of info when you join a server, but it's often still not enough, and doesn't take into consideration some of the 'rules of play' adopted by regulars.
Stormhammer, I think you're failing to see one of the main points being brought here.
The problem of the origional Saberist Code was that the followers wanted to maintain that level of "honor" on all servers, even on servers where there were no rules, or had rules set against them. Whenever they felt one of their rules was violated, the started kick votes, whining, the whole nine yards.
That is where the problem with JKII is, and where JA will also start the minute people boot up multiplayer: people will expect anyone and everyone to abide by their rules, and if they don't, they're a "****ing lamer" as so aptly put while I was in an FFA today. And this sort of behaviour will not be contained in just those regions where there are those rules. For example, I cite g// FFA's rules in summary:
No bitching, this is a fighting server. If you fail to fight, you will be kicked or banned. Tryouts on yadda yadda blah, etc.
Yet people from the fanboi community come on grendel's server constantly and raise a maelstrom of crap.
And even in FFA duels, don't get me started. I accepted a duel today on the Grendel server, and immediately opened a can on the person. All I got was him putting his saber away and asking, "WTF, don't you know how to duel?" I mean, what do you want me to do, hold C to an ad infinitum point of time, then proceed to inch my mouse down very slow? I was called an ass afterwards, oh bloody well.
My point in a nutshell is this: You can't stop the crossovers, and educating the crossovers is like talking to a brick wall: it's just not possible, and makes you look very stupid.
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
The saber off = peace crowd does just that. No matter where they go they expect others to conform to what they view as the GOD given "rules" of JK2.This is ultimately where the bitterness against RPGers (I use the term for lack of a better one) comes from. Most rational people don't have a problem with people having dedicated RPG servers. It is when people go on public servers with no rules and get abusive when others do not follow saber down = peace. Even if just this problem was addressed, I think the community would improve drastically.
Originally posted by GC256
To each their own. This is a videogame by the way.This is very true, and people need to remember that. However, it can be frustrating (for me at least) when I see that the online game has degenerated into name-calling and the spaming of moves. I see such huge potential that (IMO at least) is being wasted. JO could be one of those games that people play for many years. I think that discussing these problems (but not flaming, of course :) ) is a worthwhile exercise because I think JO/JA is worth the effort to try and improve.
Originally posted by GC256
You can't use this forum as a tool to get a census of how the majority of people play. Like you've said yourself, or someone has, most people haven't heard of this forum. (I found it just by chance). On top of that, people may not speak up with all the complaining in here (both sides).Certainly any sort of accurate polling this way would be a waste. But even though this forum does not contain the majority of the JO community, it still likely covers a reasonable demographic. I think this thread probably provides enough evidence that there is a large percentage of the JO population that are upset about the current "honour" system.
Originally posted by GC256
Most servers I play in aren't basejk and/or have voting disabled, you should find servers like that.But those non-basejk servers have really done nothing but increased the problems as far as non-RPGers (again, a general term) are concerned. IMO (perhaps too sweeping a generalization here), most mods have done precious little to improve gameplay, and have only added useless animations and emotes, and giving the admins power that the majority of them abuse. These aspects only encourage players to do anything but play the game as it was intended. I mean, were admins really that powerless with basejk (an actual question)? From what I have seen, the JO world would be a better place with just basejk.
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
And if you're playing 1.02, don't plan on changing your force config when you're in the first waiting to duel slot.People still play 1.02?? :)
Originally posted by GC256
By the way, thanks for speaking up Sith. There's countless more people like him and I, if you weren't so ignorant not to see it and base everything on what goes on at these forums.Certainly there are lots of people that follow the "honour" conduct of you and SithOfDoom. But surely you don't think that those of us who are upset with this system are basing everything on what people post here. We do play the game, and we are not imagining all these things.
Originally posted by Obi-Wan X
While im not to much in favor of honor, if a server specifically says " Bow before each duel" or "Don't kill when saber off" then you SHOULD be kicked when you fail to follow these rules. I agree. I am not trying to ruin anyone else's fun.
Originally posted by Luc Solar
I doubt I'll start playing competetively once JA comes out. I'm too much of a play-for-fun guy... I do not have the patience you need to win a drain-duel. I don't have the time needed to be actively involved in clans and matches.Ah, someone else like me. :)
Originally posted by Chewie Bakker
his thread is both off-topic and a disgraceA won't argue whether this thread is a disgrace or not, but I don't think this is off-topic. The discussion about the "honour" system is a big issue in JO, and potentially an even bigger one in JA. In this regard I think it is more than relavent.
Originally posted by ryudom
secondly, who is going to play in your server if the fanboys have imposed their ideas on all the players. thirdly, one of the points made was honor freaks coming on to others servers and kicking people that don't abid by their rules.I've seen a lot of this too. IIRC, I've seen people kicked from their own servers.
The whole "well why dontcha find another server"-thing does not work. It doesn't work in JO and it will not work in JA. It's not a solution to the problem. It's giving in to idiocy.
95% of servers have people enforcing some stupid honour-code and it spreads like a plaque.
Like someone pointed out in this thread: If a guy simply attacks instead of going through the saber down-bowing-charade, he is obviously a newbie who has not played the game before.
We all know what happens next >>> the empowered admin grips the poor newbie and yells "Hey stupid lamer n00b that's not how you're supposed to play!! If you don't [insert silly honour code] then I'll ban you. Understand, n00b!?"
Naturally, the newbie assumes that the rules presented by Mr. HonourJedi are the ones everyone is supposed to follow. The next day he logs on to another FFA-server and newbie2 attacks him. Newbie1 tells Newbie2 that he is a laming fag and should follow The Rules unless he wants to be kickbanned.
The next day both newbies (or SaberRPGn00bFanbois..what they have evolved into :D ) log on to a server and start "honouring" each other. Along comes Rad and Rumor. Rad kicks Newbie1 and Rumor drains Newbie2.
Newbie 1 & 2 start insulting the two LAMOURZASS NOOB GAYFAGGOTS who have no skill 'n play gay and are lame and complete faggots.
It's a plaque. It must be stopped. We must stop the people who are spreading it: The retarded clan d00ds who infest servers 24/7 and think their rules are universal. We must reach the newbies first, before they are brainwashed into believing all that honor-crap.
I have no pity for the fools who get flamed by "Rad's" or "Rumors"... Fanbois have deserved it, and we've deserved the right to point out their retardedness after putting up with all the BS during the JO-times.
:)
Originally posted by Luc Solar
The whole "well why dontcha find another server"-thing does not work. It doesn't work in JO and it will not work in JA. It's not a solution to the problem. It's giving in to idiocy.
95% of servers have people enforcing some stupid honour-code and it spreads like a plaque.
Like someone pointed out in this thread: If a guy simply attacks instead of going through the saber down-bowing-charade, he is obviously a newbie who has not played the game before.
We all know what happens next >>> the empowered admin grips the poor newbie and yells "Hey stupid lamer n00b that's not how you're supposed to play!! If you don't [insert silly honour code] then I'll ban you. Understand, n00b!?"
Naturally, the newbie assumes that the rules presented by Mr. HonourJedi are the ones everyone is supposed to follow. The next day he logs on to another FFA-server and newbie2 attacks him. Newbie1 tells Newbie2 that he is a laming fag and should follow The Rules unless he wants to be kickbanned.
The next day both newbies (or SaberRPGn00bFanbois..to what they have evolved :D ) log on to a server and start "honouring" each other. Along comes Rad and Rumor. Rad kicks Newbie1 and Rumor drains Newbie2.
Newbie 1 & 2 start insulting the two LAMOURZASS NOOB GAYFAGGOTS who have no skill 'n play gay and are lame and complete faggots.
It's a plaque. It must be stopped. We must stop the people who are spreading it: The retarded clan d00ds who infest servers 24/7 and think their rules are universal. We must reach the newbies first, before they are brainwashed into believing all that honor-crap.
I have no pity for the fools who get flamed by "Rad's" or "Rumors"... Fanbois have deserved it, and we've deserved the right to point out their retardedness after putting up with all the BS during the JO-times.
:)
:wstupid:
Rumor, I won't even touch that. The thread is full of oblivious idiots. At least Chewie and GC have some sense to evolve (that's credit in your direction boys, not an insult) and get with the game.
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
Getting them into competition? I'm all for it.
Stormhammer, I think you're failing to see one of the main points being brought here.
Not at all. I know exactly what issues are being raised, and some are true to my own heart. However, you can vent about the issue all you like in this thread, and trade insults with whoever you choose...but at the end of the day you will have achieved nothing. If you truly feel that the situation will not change...then by all means say so...but why continue to rant or say the same thing over and over in this thread if it's not going to solve the fundamental problem? That's like someone saying...I'll never be a millionaire, I'll never be a millionaire. So what? Deal with it and move on, and find something you can achieve.
As I said...it would be damned hard to try and segregate the community...people are free to roam to whichever server they choose, and play as they wish, even if it's annoying to the majority of other players. It is a very difficult and complex problem, and at the end of the day we could end up with a situation where you find some close friends and start your own password-protected server that excludes the majority of people. That would be an unfortunate thing to happen, but would potentially solve most of the problem. It's an extreme, and would be damaging to the community as a whole, but it's a solution.
However, I'm not willing to sit back and say nothing can be done, and the situation will simply get worse without any options for recourse. There are no perfect or permanent solutions, and no one can wave a magic wand to make the situation go away. We have to work within the confines of the problem...but I'm more optimistic that like-minded people (i.e., those who want to have some fun playing the game, from different perspectives) can find some common ground, and formulate some counter-measures to deal with the situation. Like RPers and those who really like 'Honour' codes could advertise the benefits for playing on their servers more to these wandering free spirits who can cause so much mayhem to straight frag-fighters. That won't make the problem go away, of course. There will still be those who abide by their own rules no matter what the server, and expect others to play their way.
That might partly be resolved if there was a CD-Key for MP play, so you could ban certain keys from your server permanently.
As I said before...we should be trying to find solutions, not just ranting and making ourselves feel good for 5 seconds. Let's find some lasting solutions, or at least some ideas... One thing I don't want to see is the JA online community die before it's even got off the ground.
Otherwise this thread really is pointless, even if it's allowing some people to get something off their chest.
And Luc...you can flame people all you want. Just don't do it on these forums, thanks.
You know, Edmund Burke once said
"All that is necessary for the triumph of noobs is that good players do nothing."
well.. more or less anyway :D
Originally posted by StormHammer
And Luc...you can flame people all you want. Just don't do it on these forums, thanks.
I was only talking about "pointing out their retardedness". I believe you can do that nicely....sort of :D
Originally posted by StormHammer
As I said...it would be damned hard to try and segregate the community...people are free to roam to whichever server they choose, and play as they wish, even if it's annoying to the majority of other players. It is a very difficult and complex problem, and at the end of the day we could end up with a situation where you find some close friends and start your own password-protected server that excludes the majority of people. That would be an unfortunate thing to happen, but would potentially solve most of the problem. It's an extreme, and would be damaging to the community as a whole, but it's a solution.
Damn you and your ability to predict my rebuttals! ;)
However, I'm not willing to sit back and say nothing can be done, and the situation will simply get worse without any options for recourse. There are no perfect or permanent solutions, and no one can wave a magic wand to make the situation go away. We have to work within the confines of the problem...but I'm more optimistic that like-minded people (i.e., those who want to have some fun playing the game, from different perspectives) can find some common ground, and formulate some counter-measures to deal with the situation. Like RPers and those who really like 'Honour' codes could advertise the benefits for playing on their servers more to these wandering free spirits who can cause so much mayhem to straight frag-fighters. That won't make the problem go away, of course. There will still be those who abide by their own rules no matter what the server, and expect others to play their way.
Agreed, but part of the problem is that there are too MANY servers that cater to the "honor" crowd, and part of the blame falls on the lack of any ladder organization (TWL pulling out of TFFA, anyone?). In all of my time of playing JKII, the number of servers that do not operate for these crowds explicitly has dwindled looking from 1.02 to the present. In fact, the only servers that do operate for the sake of competition/fun without having to practically type +movedown in console are mostly clan servers. And most of the time, they do have force active.
Also, the introduction of adminmods (starting with VAM) has created an atmosphere of complete "control." Now while there are some admins out there that do exhibit control in a mature fashion, a good majority are in the stereotypical "13 year old whose balls haven't dropped and gets his jollies by being a bastard" category (sorry, had to say that). These are the same people who think people can be conformed to saber codes by mass /amslap, overuse of the /amsleep, etc.
NEWSFLASH: You're only pissing the person off.
If you want to operate a server with an admin mod, the only commands you should have are kick, ban, rename, status (knowing the player number is a great tool), whois, and deny/allow vote. None of this protection crap. None of this sleeping crap. Just those 7 up there is enough for an effective admin, and I hope future editions eliminate all the bullcrap to just those 7. I think the atmosphere will change a lot if that happens.
That might partly be resolved if there was a CD-Key for MP play, so you could ban certain keys from your server permanently.
I really haven't thought much of CD-Keys, especially in the case of CD-Key gens from CS.
As I said before...we should be trying to find solutions, not just ranting and making ourselves feel good for 5 seconds. Let's find some lasting solutions, or at least some ideas... One thing I don't want to see is the JA online community die before it's even got off the ground.
Here's a helmet Stormmy, get ready for the firefight.
And Luc...you can flame people all you want. Just don't do it on these forums, thanks.
But I like it when he flames!
EDIT: Spelling
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
Rumor, I won't even touch that. The thread is full of oblivious idiots. At least Chewie and GC have some sense to evolve (that's credit in your direction boys, not an insult) and get with the game.
chicken. :eek: