we all saw in episode 2 that obi wan kenobi blocked Dooku's lightning with his saber.

who wants this to be encorperated into the new game?

oops didn't get to finish the post!!

i think that it should but it should be at the cost of force, and it it should only be possible in the strong defensive stances

Maybee they should make different animations for absorb. Instead of the blue aura, your character would react to the
force power affecting them. For example, if affected by lightning your character would block it with his saber (like obi-wan) IF he was using absorb. If the enemy would grip you, your character would make a weak force push.

But I dont think Raven should do this, because I'd rather like them to concentrate on getting the saber combat near perfection ;)

I didn't like how obi wan just casually blocked the lightning. I think it totally downplayed the way yoda absorbed it. So i dont think sabers should be able to block lightning. But maybe there can be an animation where your character holds up his/her hand and absorbs the lightning.

I think that perhaps you should only be able to block lightning in light stance, since it's the most defensive (supposedly)

Maybe you should have to pay 2 points for it in yellow and 3 to able to block it in red. Of course, i think that your crosshair must be on the attacker (so it's red) just to keep it fair :)

Oh and rock, you can press the edit button to change you post.

I don't like the idea, simply because I'm no fan of Ep.II. I didn't like the way it felt. Plus, I don't really want to see lightning as much in JA anyway. Of course, this is just my own opinion, and I'm in something of a minority. As long as the gameplay isn't greatly affected, I wont mind using lightning rods as weapons.

I'd like to see it ... perhaps because I AM a fan of EPII (and Obi-Wan is my model, maybe that's why I liked JO so much, I could play like Obi in EPII).

But - in SP or MP - I would like to see a significant Force cost. Also agree - facing attacker, Blue stance, defensive only.

Mike

i not quite sure where i've heard this, but obi was using a lower form of abosrb where the lighting was channelled to the lightsaber and since lighting doesn't hurt any non-living thing (ever seen da siths using lighting on anything other than peopel??) it just cancelled out, but yoda was actually taking the lighting into his puny green body :)

Originally posted by kusanagi
i not quite sure where i've heard this, but obi was using a lower form of abosrb where the lighting was channelled to the lightsaber and since lighting doesn't hurt any non-living thing (ever seen da siths using lighting on anything other than peopel??) it just cancelled out, but yoda was actually taking the lighting into his puny green body :) Which seems to indicate that Yoda is a big dummy. Why didn't he take out his lightsaber sooner, if it is so easy to block lightning that way.

Originally posted by Prime
Which seems to indicate that Yoda is a big dummy. Why didn't he take out his lightsaber sooner, if it is so easy to block lightning that way.

That would be a little dummy ;)

Actually, I think you can see that Anakin got tossed like something from the HL2 demo with little effort, and Dooku thought he was going to do the same with ObiWan. When it came to Yoda, he was very intense, and Yoda is not one to be quick to pull a weapon.

Mike

yes obi wan is cool

tho it would be quite cool if one could stop lightning like that.

yoda didnt' pull out a weapon. why? coz he didn't have to.

he almost "intimidated" dooku as he mearly caught the most powerful dark attack

Yeah, the whole first part of the battle between Yoda and Dooku was a force/mind battle. Remember Dooku saying something about settling it with thier skill with lightsabers when he realized his powers were useless against Yoda?

It's not really blocking lightning with the saber. It's a weaker and more simplified absorbsion method, like what Yoda used, only where the Jedi channels energy through an object.

Originally posted by Emon
It's not really blocking lightning with the saber. It's a weaker and more simplified absorbsion method, like what Yoda used, only where the Jedi channels energy through an object.

That sounds reasonable. I hope that if we have Force Absorb (in SP) we can do that ...

Mike

Remember all Jedi manipulate the force to their own use...Obi-Wan probably used the force to direct the lightning to his saber or the lightning prolly made its way to Obi-Wan's saber and his saber,being electrical,could have cancelled the electrical charge.

Yoda,on the other hand,he manipulated the force so that he could 'catch' or 'absorb' all the lightning and direct it back to Dooku.

i don't see how it would work ingame though... most people would have their sabers out, so anyone using lightning would find it automatically blocked... since there isn't a block key or anything...

Originally posted by toms
i don't see how it would work ingame though... most people would have their sabers out, so anyone using lightning would find it automatically blocked... since there isn't a block key or anything...

It would have to be using Absorb, so you would have to activate it to block.

Mike

Something else to note - Dooku used a single stream of lightning. This seems to me like a low level of Force lightning. I expect a spread form of lightning would be harder to block with a thin lightsaber.

Aside from the Qui-Gonn / Obi-Wan / Darth Maul duel, the prequels have been less than inspiring. Regarding Obi-Wan's blocking of Force Lightning with his lightsaber, I was just like, WTF? Then I began thinking of how Luke threw his saber away before the Emperor toasted him - if blocking Force Lightning was that easy, then Luke really....chose pooooooooorly.

vagabond.... luke threw his saber away in a statement of refusal to do any more harm to his father (whom he had defeated and need do anything else)

people say that absorb is really only an elite jedi move, which it probably is. ... what most people don't seem to see is that lightning is the dark equivelant of the most elite force power.

nobody BUT the empiror would really beable to eminate a fan of lightning like in the games.... actually i thought that force lightning was so powerful that ONLY the empiror could use it... when dooku used it i was like WAAAT!! NO WAY!! . but then again he is the apprentise of the most powerful sith there has ever been.

i can't quite remember, but didn't yoda train obi wan for some time aswell?

i thought using the saber to block it was cool. Yoda took it in so he could reflect it. what's dooku to lose if the opposition may block it... on the other hand if the opposition can reflect it then thats your que to ignite your lightsaber. hehehe

to your statement about luke skywalker, even if he'd kept his saber i he would have had the knowledge of the force to do this. he definately had the power... but not the knowledge. so it would've made little difference.

just my 2 cents :D

Perhaps blocking low-level lightning makes sense, but how woul you block a fan of lightning that filles the whole screen? :confused: Just by blocking the lightning that reached you?

Rockstar, gee, duh ... you think? Believe me, I know far more about that topic than you give me credit - I could talk for hours about it.

But if you'll read what I said, I wasn't commenting on why Luke did it. Rather, I was speaking to the fact that if Luke had know that the Emperor was going to fry him, and that all he had to do was to simply bring up his lightsaber, he may have thought twice about demonstrating, in such a reckless manner, his defiance of the Emperor, and his determination and love for his father.

One could say the reason Yoda tosses the lightning back is because it was something that showed he was more powerful (he didn't just block it, he USED it as a weapon!). It also put off his taking out his lightsaber for dramatic effect (since so many probably didn't fully grasp that Yoda would be a full fledged acrobatic duelist... except those who read the spoilers of course!).

The whole "blocking lightning with a lightsaber" bit actually comes from the EU. In Timothy Zahn's first trilogy of books Luke block's Joruus C'Baoth's lightning with his lightsaber.

There may be other examples. I don't know if Lucas himself was influenced by this, but I can't help but think that he was (just as the double bladed lightsaber came from the EU, from Exar Kunn, and other examples).

The trouble with blocking lightning with the saber, is that people could just keep their saber out all the time and be virtually immune to lightning, making the power even more useless than it already is (in the face of absorb for example). It could be made to work, but I think its taking the "it has to be just like the movies" a little too far past the point of game balance and doing it just for its own sake.

How they could do it (just to make a nod to AOTC and the EU) would be to have it so that if you are using absorb, but have your saber ignited, it would show an animation of you automatically blocking it with your blade, and if you didn't have it on, you'd block it with your hands like Yoda did (but toss it back? why not just use your own lightning?).

Anyway, there comes a point when imitating the movies too much takes away from the gameplay by making it unnecessarily complicated just for a few "wow" visual effects.

those that say that force absorb should make the jedi bring up his saber....... WTF IS THE POINT of blocking it when you can convert it into force energy you can use

i agree that to block lightning automatically would just suck

i think that if it should be blockable, lightning should have to be blocked manually and at hte cost of force energy

tho some agree and others disagree. i think that the problem with lightning RAKING up the kills should be solved...

i still think that the dark side should be able to counter lightning by using their lightning, and it should cancel out

and the lightside should be able to absorb and reflect lightning. and the reflected lighting should be able to be countered by hte dark lighting (the dark would outpower tho, because the darky has more force than the lighty has absorbed energy)

still, any solution to stop lighting spammers. i just don't like newbies being able to get frags in FFA's so easily i guess

oh and i am sorry vagabond

but i don't think luke would've had the knowledge to use the force enough to counter Sideous' lightning as it is probably too powerful.

Originally posted by Rockstar
still, any solution to stop lighting spammers. i just don't like newbies being able to get frags in FFA's so easily i guess

Ummm...what, who and where are these "lightning spammers who keep racking up frags"? I have not seen a single one yet. Sure, I've seen lightning spammers, but never one that gets even half way up the score board.

If you're light - simply put on absorb. If youre dark - drain. We all know this. But if someone owns the server with lightning spamming then the rest of the server *really* should practise a bit more. ;)

Well yeah, but since FFA is pretty chaotic at times, you can have an advantage when 5 ppl are fighting close to each other. Hooray you can damage 5 ppl pretty hard and then slash them up a lil' :) Although I have nothing against lightning, I think it should be altered to a single beam, that can lift your victim :)


Oh and about absorb, I think absorb should only work when you are facing the attacker. If you have the lightsaber on (+absorb) it will block the lightning / drain and if you don't you absorb it with your hand. That way it's pretty balanced I think; it doesn't really alter the game but adds a nice effect :) Maybe you could even include a client side option "Absorb using lightsaber". If unchecked, you will absorb the normal way :) And lightsaber absorbing could also be random, you won't allways use your saber to absorb the lightning...

Kurgan is right. Keep in mind that the movies are scripted sequences designed to have special moments that are really spectacular. If you try to implement something like into a game, it usually screws up balance, and isn't as fun when everyone uses it over and over.

Originally posted by HertogJan
Oh and about absorb, I think absorb should only work when you are facing the attacker. If you have the lightsaber on (+absorb) it will block the lightning / drain and if you don't you absorb it with your hand. That way it's pretty balanced I think; it doesn't really alter the game but adds a nice effect :) Maybe you could even include a client side option "Absorb using lightsaber". If unchecked, you will absorb the normal way :) And lightsaber absorbing could also be random, you won't allways use your saber to absorb the lightning...

i agree about lightning being a single stream, that should change.

as for your thoughts of absorb, that would really disadvantage the lightside. i think the only way the that absorb could work fairly the way you described (the jedi raises his hand and only absorbs what is infront of him) would be if the lightside after absorbing lightning could reflect roughly half the ammount of lightning absorbs

however, if the saber could block lightning (which i agree would be good as a server option) and it would also allow darkies the chance of some defence against lightning spammers

as for solars comment:
i actually have no problem with lightning spammers myself (good ol absorb = free force :p) its just when i see newbies that should be bottom of the ladder up maybe 4 places when they don't even have a clue which end their saber blade comes outta the hilt.... i just think :confused: lol. its no deal really

the whole block lightng with lightsaber thing is gone a bit far, if u wanna implement it in a game, its nothing more than an animation....
Kurgan's got a point, just slap it in so putting on abosrb lets u block it with the saber on low level and with hands on the high level,

changing the lighting into a single stream would make it kinda useless....how bout turning lighting into a burst that last for a couple of seconds, each burst doing a set amount of damage and a buffer between each attack? u can be able to lift ur opponent with the few seconds that is given or at least push them away from u, that would stop it from being overuse

umm your proposing lightning be made VERRY powerful if you can eminate a fan that can affect 5 people and throw them about

i must agree saber blocking lightning would get a bit far. reflecting absorbed lightning would still be cool tho... :)

Originally posted by Rockstar
i must agree saber blocking lightning would get a bit far. reflecting absorbed lightning would still be cool tho... :)

I share the idea that it could just be an animation. That would satisfy the 'movie-like' crew without compromising gameplay.

Reflecting is a problem in the same way level 3 mind trick is a problem - I would rather have had level 3 give me 'jk1 persuasion' effect, or better yet a choice - convert one or confuse a whole room. For top level absorb I would like to choose to reflect or take the energy and turn it into a 200% force power limit for some time period.

Mike

I really like Agen terminators idea, but it would be cooler if you could only use it with blue. :)

I think the idea of blocking force lightning with a lightsaber is idiotic. If I saw that in that game I'd toss it right in the garbage. I could see however being able to catch it and perhaps reflect it back at them. With the option of incorperating more power to the lightning, depending whether or not you're player is a Jedi or dark Jedi (not sith :rolleyes: )

Originally posted by <JOTD>Jedi Hunter
I think the idea of blocking force lightning with a lightsaber is idiotic. I have to agree. I thought it was pretty silly in the movie, and I really don't want it in the game, unless perhaps it was just part of the absorb animation.

In AOTC, I just think that Obi-wan absorbing lightning with ease sort of ruined the threat of it. Now when I watch ROTJ, Luke looks pretty silly rolling around on the floor like that :) Jeez Luke, just use your lightsaber. Even Yoda struggled to deflect lightning by himself, and I was wondering why he didn't just raise his lightsaber. If it is that easy to defend against, then lightning isn't really any threat at all...

As for gameplay, I don't think it would be a good thing to be able to deflect lightning with a lightsaber for reasons that have already been mentioned...

I didn't think it was lame at all. Obi was channeling the lightening into the saber. I don't think this was effortless. Yoda was absorbing and reflecting it with his body - I see that as a big difference - and as for Luke - he was so clueless I'm sure he didn't even know lightening came out of bad guy's hands. Luke was not much of a Jedi - I think even Lucas pointed out that in the prequels he wanted to show real jedi as opposed to jedi who were half-dead, too old, or didn't know the difference between push and pull.

I have a dumb question: Is Force Lightning actually electricity or is it just force "magic"? It seems to me that Yoda channelling an actual lightning bolt is pretty far out; if it was just "the force" it would make more sense, I think.

Originally posted by Reprehence
I didn't think it was lame at all. Obi was channeling the lightening into the saber. I don't think this was effortless. Yoda was absorbing and reflecting it with his body - I see that as a big difference - and as for Luke - he was so clueless I'm sure he didn't even know lightening came out of bad guy's hands. Luke was not much of a Jedi - I think even Lucas pointed out that in the prequels he wanted to show real jedi as opposed to jedi who were half-dead, too old, or didn't know the difference between push and pull.

First off - I like the idea of lightning absorb as a defensive saber-on animation and nothing more. You get a bit of homage, without messing up the game.

Now back to the movies ...

If you watch ObiWan & Dooku, you can see that Obi squares and pauses to absorb, and that Dooku isn't trying all that hard ... just trying to stun Obi like he blasted Anakin. When it came to Yoda he bore down full force (pun intended) with 'killer' lightning.

As for Luke, it is also clear that he is one of the strongest Jedi ever (if not well trained) - in a very small amount of training he comes up to being strong enough to stand off witth Vader (stonger than Obi or Anakin relattive to Dooku), with the prescience to see the path to destroy Jabba and his horde, and finally to better Vader, use his power to turn him, and face down the Emperor. He was clearly not expecting what Emp delivered, which was much stronger tyhan what Dooku gave, but was able to sustain it for a long time, and recover quickly.

Mike

Solbe - I'd like to know that too - my first guess is it's just "magic" energy.

txa: A respectable opinion, however:
Yes, Luke probably had the greatest potential - assuming he was more naturally powerful than his father. I believe his short training time (how long is that actually supposed to be anyway) can be attributed to two things - 1) the force was particularly strong with him and 2) Lucas was focused on making a movie rather than creating a world consistent with prequels that were barely more than a twinkle in his eye. Regarding his conflict with Vader, I don't think Vader was trying particularly hard to kill him - they really wanted him to join them - plus Vader is barely alive - and he killed Obi because Obi stopped fighting. Finally Luke didn't use his powers to win - he simply surrendered. He throws his lightsaber down and says he will not fight - and that is what turns his father. In the end it was the content of his character (to borrow a phrase) and not his power that overcame and redeemed evil. Twice he was willing to die rather than join the dark side.

Originally posted by txa1265
If you watch ObiWan & Dooku, you can see that Obi squares and pauses to absorb, and that Dooku isn't trying all that hard ... just trying to stun Obi like he blasted Anakin. When it came to Yoda he bore down full force (pun intended) with 'killer' lightning.
I good theory.

However, it still comes across to me as Obi-wan having an easy time, and in my eyes that reduced the necessity of what Yoda did. And even though Luke doesn't know about this ability, now when I watch that scene I still think, "Luke, if you only knew..." :)

Just my opinion...

Originally posted by Prime
I good theory.

However, it still comes across to me as Obi-wan having an easy time, and in my eyes that reduced the necessity of what Yoda did. And even though Luke doesn't know about this ability, now when I watch that scene I still think, "Luke, if you only knew..." :)

Just my opinion...

I know ... let's remember that it is really just establishing the heirarchy within the context of EpII - Anakin gets totally whacked by casual lightning, Obi-Wan manages the same casual lightning fairly easily, and Yoda can take everything Dooku can give him and block, reflect, and finally squish it in his hands ...

As for Luke ... put in context of watching Yoda, imaging the RotJ scene but with Luke taking the first hit and getting knocked down, then putting up his hands and forming an absorb field, struggling to maintain it while the emperor slowly breaks through it and then he starts getting major-ly whacked ...

Mike

Originally posted by txa1265
As for Luke ... put in context of watching Yoda, imaging the RotJ scene but with Luke taking the first hit and getting knocked down, then putting up his hands and forming an absorb field, struggling to maintain it while the emperor slowly breaks through it and then he starts getting major-ly whacked ... In retrospect, Luke was a fairly inexperienced Jedi going up against two (and possibly the greatest) Sith Lords...

To who thinks blockable ligthning would be always blockable: are blaster shots always ineffective against saber wielders? I don't think so. And would absorb be useless? No, actually they are different features. One only blocks (and could use automatically a few Force points), the other is useful to regain Force points. One is useable only by saber wielders, the other also by gunners. One blocks Force attacks only from in front of you, the other protects you from all directions. And last, one is for all, the other only for the light side.
IMHO it would be a good feature, it would reflect movies and could be a server option if someone don't like it.

Luke did not just use what was in his character to defeat Vader. When he threw down his saber, he knew through the force that his father was breaking. It was through his knowledge of the force that he turned vader. I mean, could you see him doing that in A new Hope? Also, Luke is the most powerful Jedi. He trained for little over two years (as stated by lucas). Most Jedi train their entire childhood and even into adulthood before they even become a Jedi (also stated by lucas). Considoring these factors, I'd say Luke did a great job against Palpatine and Vader. Someone mentioned Vader not trying, I think I could see that. You bring up a gret point. One I actually overlooked. As for force lightning being blockable by a lightsaber, I still think the best course of action, would be through channeling the force through your body (as in, catching it and deflecting it, or returning the blast). I mean, it just seems odd to think you can block the force with a saber. And yes, that would make the ability almost useless. Unless it took a great amount of force to accomplish it. Then I may be able to see it. Still looks stupid though. Keep in mind, these are only my opinions. And I have as much respect for yours as I do mine.

Luke did not just use what was in his character to defeat Vader. When he threw down his saber, he knew through the force that his father was breaking. It was through his knowledge of the force that he turned vader. .
I guess that is one way of looking at it - I take your point that he was feeling the ambiguity and goodness in Vader - but the turning was not an act of force - it was not as if he zapped Vader with some force power was what I meant.

Thanks for pointing out how long he had trained - I've always wondered. From the movies it looked like he was there for about a week or two :). It was impressive how far he came in so short a time and faced down Vader and the Emp. with such composure. As far "the most powerful" I'm not sure that can be accurately posited since he never faced Yoda or Obi-wan or Mace etc. or whether this is even an appropriate measure of which jedi is the most powerful. In a sense he was the jedi wunderkind (a foil for his father) - but once wunderkinds grow up, they still have to compete with adults.

Hah, oh man that made me laugh, the zap part. bam, your good. And a very true statement. As for training with yoda, he was there for only a few days, the remainder of his training I believe was done by himself. Using what Yoda had shown him as a basis. Considoring this, becoming a Jedi with virtually no master, I'd say he's pretty powerful. I believe as a Jedi master, Luke could take any Jedi. But that's going into eu. And I know most of you guys don't dig eu. So I'll say, in rotj, as much as I hate to say it, you're right. He wouldn't have stood a chance against windu. As for ben, I don't know, I think he could've beaten ben. I always keep in mind, that in lucas' eyes, Luke was meant to be the most powerful, why else would he be the one to confront vader. He was choosen for that task because he was Vaders son. As (or more) powerful as Vader. Anyway, you make really good points. my head hurts. ;)

Seems to me like were getting confused!

Yoda was a Jedi master for 900 years befor luke trained with him.
Luke left before he could complete his training. Yoda wanted him to stay(maybe to teach him all the sith's little tricks)Luke couldn't stand by while his friends get killed. As far as luke throwing his saber away! Vader was luke's father Luke knew this and maybe he knew that the emperor was going to zap him! But what does a father feel when he sees his child getting hurt? What does a father do?
Luke wanted to turn his father from the darkside, and this he did!


Mission completed! score one more for the light side!!!


Zen_5
Mind what you have learned, Save you it can!(Master Yoda)

It will be interesting to see how Anakin fairs in the next movie - how will his power be established vs. experience. I.e. will he and the Emp. defeat the jedi mainly through combat or cunning. If I remember right, obi and anakin faced off before ep. 4 and obi defeated him, though perhaps barely, hence his machinery. By ep. 4 vader has come fully into his powers as a jedi and so was obviously more formidable.

Originally posted by <JOTD>Jedi Hunter
As for training with yoda, he was there for only a few days, the remainder of his training I believe was done by himself. Actually, I think it was a lot longer than that. Maybe a month or more. Remember, the Falcon had an unusable hyperdrive, and they had to get from the Hoth system to Bespin before Luke got there. Now, in reality this would take forever without a hyperdrive, but assuming there was some sort of limited backup, it would still take much longer than a few days. Besides, judging from everything we've seen and read, it takes much longer than a few days to get to the level Luke did when he meets Vader.