Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ
Sounds interesting, i'm worried about the state of multiplayer with all these "improvements", seems to me its going to become too complex for its own good...
But, if Raven actually use the concept of multiplayer tests prior to release, we might just end up with a game we can all enjoy.
Agreed. I spent a few days on the single player, and liked it, but I spent months on the multiplayer aspect. I'd like to see it get the attention it deserves.
I think that it would be fairly nifty if you could break out of a saberlock with a swift backhand/other punch, or a knee to your enemy's chest, or headbutt...or something. That would spice up the combat a bit. :) Kinda like what Qui-Gon Jinn did in Episode 1 to Darth Maul (even though they weren't in a lock)...elbowed him in the stomach and then pimp-slapped him (sorry...couldn't think of a more appropriate phrase ;)) across the face. That...was cool.
I guess we'll all just have to wait and see how it turns out. There's so much they could do to make this series good again.
Anyone else got their fingers crossed?
Originally posted by ArtifeX
Agreed. I spent a few days on the single player, and liked it, but I spent months on the multiplayer aspect. I'd like to see it get the attention it deserves.
Or ... at least have LEC define the attention it will get, and tell people. Is it SP 1st, MP 2nd? The reverse? Are they actually trying to make both 'equal priority' (sorry, enough years project management experience to know that doesn't work well)? Or ...?
Mike
2. Implement different character classes than just jedi. The whole issue of Jedi shooting rocket launchers is completely contradictory to the Star Wars universe, and it made those who liked stepping into the shoes of a "pure saberist" jedi a free kill for anyone with a Golan or Merr-Sonn. Use character classes to limit weapon, equipment, armor, health and force power availability.
:rolleyes: Kyle Katarn is a Jedi. Kyle Katarn uses guns. Kyle Katarn is a character in the Star Wars universe. A rocket launcher is a gun. Jedi shooting rocket launchers is not contradictory to the Star Wars universe. QED.
This gets brought up so much and I find it very annoying that some people seemingly want to force their ideas of what these games should be on others. A new class-based MP gametype would be cool. But if they force people to choose between using guns or using the Force in normal FFA/CTF games, it would kill the DF series.
Originally posted by Jeff 42
:rolleyes: Kyle Katarn is a Jedi. Kyle Katarn uses guns. Kyle Katarn is a character in the Star Wars universe. A rocket launcher is a gun. Jedi shooting rocket launchers is not contradictory to the Star Wars universe. QED.
You don't play Kyle Katarn in this game.
You are not a mercenary in this game.
You play a jedi padawan in this game.
QED.
I was talking about multiplayer (i.e. whether or not we should be able to be gun-toting Jedi in MP).
Originally posted by Jeff 42
I was talking about multiplayer (i.e. whether or not we should be able to be gun-toting Jedi in MP).
Ahh... fair point.
Still, given that the whole game is supposed to be designed with the saber in mind, I think it's obvious if it's the most powerful weapon.
But, they did mention a truckload of guns to go with the saber - even more than in JK2.
I wouldn't like to see "gun totin'" Jedi. Twould' be cooler if there were specific character types.
I'm guessing that no Jedi has picked up a blaster besides Kyle...since Luke did. ;) I mean, keeping a pistol with you...that's not a bad thing, just in case something happens and you're unable to use the Force, and your lightsaber is out of commission.
Originally posted by ArtifeX
I guess we'll all just have to wait and see how it turns out. There's so much they could do to make this series good again.
Anyone else got their fingers crossed?
Personally - and I'm almost as much SP biased as you are MP biased - I think JKII was objectively one of the 3 or 4 best 'post half-life' action games, and the reviews reflect that. Subjectively it is my favorite game ever - not perfect, just my fave.
'Good again' doesn't relate to that. It relates to your desires for MP. I assume the MP for JK1/MotS is your metric for 'good'? (innocentt question, only played MP for JK1 once, and that was post-JK2 release).
Mike
I wouldn't like to see "gun totin'" Jedi. Twould' be cooler if there were specific character types.
i think i read that they were going to make a classed based gametype, and alot of people like gun toting jedis so i don't see why they'd only make class based. the games sounds really good accually. i think i'm gonna try to go in "ignore mode" until it comes out to avoid any more spoilers heh
i object to the fact they let you carry more hardware than the canadian army ;)
seriously. i think its ridiculous that they still produce games where the player carries every single gun they collect. take a leaf out of the halo book of gamage.
I wouldn't like to see "gun totin'" Jedi.
I take it you didn't like Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II or Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast then?
Raven blows. Ken blows. Go get yourself a copy of JK2 and enjoy the comedy of the game such as sabres passing through your opponent that dont register damage(oops, we forgot the defence animations), or how about that sabre that hits you 30ft away(nice netcode)... Raven is second rate. Ken is a over glorified graphics person and his netcode abilities as seen in previous games leave a lot to be desired. You want a game with server side prediction that fails to inform your pc of where a person is, go get this game when it comes out. If you are just really in for a hard on for graphics get this game. If you are looking for any type of precision in netcode, this ain't going to be it. Raven's netcode is a shambles and Raven is perceived by lots as a company that leaves lots of things unfinished. JK2 1.04, still has all the problems I mentioned above. Nobody responds on any technical issues or even remotely talks about patch. 1.04 came out and that was it.
Be prepared for yet another prediction chaos game. Search for your opponents with sabre swings.
Trust me, borrow a copy of JK 2. Play with a friend, test out the above, you will see it to be true.
Want to see a shooter with the same kinds of issues made by Raven, go get Soldier of Fortune 2. What a disaster, shooting all over the place to hit your opponent, point blank shotgun blasts that register no damage. Tents that are bullet proof, cheats, exploits even with protection in place people still cheat.
And watch as this post gets deleted. But what a shame for Lucas to hire these guys again... I guess the price was right for Raven, cheap.
All I can say is, get JK2 and play it. That's what you can expect in JK 3. You will see the above is all true. Oh and don't buy the game, rather borrow it from a friend. Save your money. Unfortunately I lost mine.
Really too bad Raven is doing this one, I hoped Lucas would go with a better company. One that finishes what it started.:rolleyes:
Originally posted by ArtifeX
Anyone else got their fingers crossed?
Fingers, toes, eyes...you name it!!!
I'm so darn excited about having playable vehicles! This has been a wish of mine for a long time in the StarWars games. The ultimate would be the blending of JKII style shooters & the X-Wing series style games into a single gametype. I realize we may still be a ways off from that, but anything heading in that direction is VERY COOL INDEED!!!
I'm also looking forward to using the Maul type saber staff & dual sabers. It would be really cool in MP if the Maul type staff could be broken & the player would then automatically default to one of the other stances (as in episode1).
On the technical side, it would be nice to have true analog controller support. I don't know if it is really possible with the game engine, but it would be cool.
Originally posted by Jeff 42
I take it you didn't like Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II or Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast then?
I'm talking MP here, bub.
All I can say is, get JK2 and play it. That's what you can expect in JK 3.
Sounds good to me! :)
You know, it's sad that people like you have to kill perfectly productive threads like this. Seriously, leave it be. That was so uncalled for, given the subjects of these discussions.
Fluke,
You sir, are an idiot.
(:
fluke....all my points says your 10 times a worse programer then Ken is, Ken is amazing at what he does which is why he got to where he is, stuped ass mother ****er
I know everyone is throwing out 1,000 suggestions a minute, but I would like to add a few of my own:
1- Multiplayer levels:
A-Hidden "Saga" gametype levels shipped with JKIII - There's only one for JO, probably cuz people don't really understand it.
B-as D-IQ said, more than 4 CTF levels, and give the levels the ability to play single flag CTF (is this what CTY is? I've never played CTY)
C-Ability to script in MP. For instance, the original JK had cog, and people used that to create great new level types like Infiltrate!, and to port over other game's level types like Domination from UT. (of course, this might be tough, since it could be easier to cheat with MP scripting.
D-Co-Operative levels, with the ability for the mapper to control how many players would be in level, by how many spawn points or whatever, (so that some missions would just be a Jedi and his padawan, and others can be an all out battle) and have checkpoints so if you die, you don't have to catch up. I can see a problem develop synching everything up in co-op. I would assume it would use a lot of bandwidth, but at least allow a 2-4 player co-op.
2-Other stuff
A-at least 2 lightstaff and two saber stances
B-a underhand stance and two saber underhand stance (like Adi Gallia has in Jedi Power Battles for PSX and Dreamcast)
Looking great so far!!!
It's unfair to flame Fluke, we are afterall all entitled to an opinion which should be respected. If someone doesn't like something that you like, feel thankful that you got a better experience out of it.
Personally I'm glad Raven are doing the new one. The two SoF games and Jedi Outcast provided enjoyable Single Player campaigns and I believe they are a competent developing studio and one of the best out there for this genre.
Originally posted by Fluke
Raven blows. Ken blows.
Now wait a sec. Yes, there's a lot of room for improvemt in JK2 but the ghoul2 system kicks ass. Boltable models, perpolygon collsions, the works!
Originally posted by AKPiggott
It's unfair to flame Fluke, we are afterall all entitled to an opinion which should be respected.
Sorry, but if Fluke can voice his unnuanced, insulting, uncostructive "criticism" of an opinion, then so can f*ckin' I.
You can't expect to simply waltz in here, rage and personally insult a Raven programmer for nothing, walk back out and assume people aren't going to give a damn.
I see your point though - but one of the lessons of life is that people are going to react when your're just being an ass.
They say that the game is 60% done, but when did they actually start making the game? :confused:
Would be nice to know. :D
Fluke, I know that's your opinion, but calm down, OK?
LUCASARTS AND RAVEN STAFF, PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING SHORT SENTENCES:
Do not listen to people with bad grammar, they are spamming idiots and they know not of what they speak. If there is by some strange chance someone with bad grammar that has a good idea, it will be restated with someone who doesn't sound like a trolling moron. Thank you.
Anyways, I have a lot of faith in Raven and LEC this time around. Just the fact that they are doing this sequel and have added so many wonderful things really restores my trust in LEC (Raven never did anything wrong, LEC controls just about everything).
yeah when did they start making the game:?????? in secret no duh, for awile, a long while, its funny how no one knew either untill now
Don't know if anyone from Raven is still watching, but will there be any ships that you can explore, such as the Lady Luck (Lando's ship) in JOII?
BTW, I'm relatively new to mapping, but I'm working on an explorable Millenium Falcon and would love to see something similar in JKIII. I've got the exterior pretty much finished, along with the interior of the cockpit. I'm working on the interior at the moment in a separate map, but will eventually combine the two. I'm currently getting some help on exterior textures from Chuckles. If you're interested, check out my thread in the showcase forum at Massassi.net. It's under the subject YT-1300. CMAC
C'jais i totally agree, he has the right to have his own opinion but in the way he used "sux" he was bang out of order.
Yah Raven and LEC , how about a multiplayer demo before it's release so u can fix last min things and stuff ? It helped alot on other games so why not the upcoming game ?
Oasisfan
or a SP demo....and btw I think there could maybe MP modes with and wothout classes, since I personally am a fan of no classes ;)
Multiplayer demo releases could help. A lot.
4 words:
Manual Blocking with lightsaber
Well done Pnut, saved me the trouble.
Single Key manual blocking. That's the only way to make blocking a skill at all.
I would like to see a vast improvement in the Saber moves. While i will concide that JK2 was better that many of the 3rd person shooters melee systems. I personaly that it was a let down. I was expecting it to be a little more. Then there were the issues with multipayer and sigle player diferences in the saber fighting. there were some other things that concerned me with the game i shall list them. I however wont hold a grudge, just hope that JK3 will implement improvements.
Here is my wish list, based on the concerns I had with JK2.
1) More veriety of moves, and make every useful in sume manor.
2) I would like more distinction between the stances. They seemed in JK2 to be nearly identical, other then speed and damage effects. (I know this is a game, but as an expereince real life swords man, damage, is about commitment, strikethough, and location of strike through. Simply balancing the by slowing the actack, i see as crazy.)
3) Stances, I think should focus more on Angle and position of attack and defence.
4) a suggestion i thought for a long time, whould be to add a secound attack button for melee of the saber. Have one that dose more chopping up and down attacks, and the other more slashing left to right attacks. That alone would make saber fighting a lot more realistic, as well as workable in the game. You then can ferther add veritey of the moves by the adding in the directional controls and etc. You can then add in chops swings, in verious combinations, to produce a endless veriety of striking.
5) I am Sure that many will yell at me for saying this, but i think that it should be added that Backwards movement should be slower then the other directions. This will also help make saber battles more realistick, and ovoid situations where people simply run backwards to escape and attack at the same time which I always see as insainly bizzar, and its not realistic either.
6) I want to be able to Wall Walk and Roll without the light saber.
7) It also be nice if you can jump of the walls and get some far distence.
8) I do not thing that the same powers should not be Stronger for the NPC in the game. To often in JK2 I would see Reborn use force push, or pull to flip over the tripod auto guns, and mines. to that they never were hurt from them. That power is fine, except for the fact that I as the player could not do it. Either make it imposible for them to do it, or give the player that ability to.
9) For saber through, I actualy am fine the way it is, but would prefer if you could throw it in two ways. One I would like to see it thrown like one throws a baseball. Fast with as asmuch strenght. Basicly i am think over head with lots of power. YOu can use the force to pull it back, or keep it out in its spining fasion. I also think spinning is unnecassary but it does increase the threat area.
10) Some have suggested a defence button, I am aggreable to that, but I also thought up the idea of having a "Combat stance" button this woul work like the styles. you could cycle through options like "Devensive" "Agressive" "Balanced" "Fast" and etc. That gan determain the amout that you put into protection, and attack excet. where as Style determans the angle an methode of attack.
11) For sake of movie likeness. I would also like to see nice kicks, elboins, and disarms incorperated. I like the disarming stuff. And I like the saber locks. I would add to saber loks the option to back out and to hold the other person in. Hence push backwards, to get out, but if you want to stay in push farward. Also it would be nice if you can move while in a saber lock... It makes it look more like a test of wills.
12)I have stuff for the other weapons too. I would like the blaster beams to move faster. as well as a lot of the other guns. I found that it was realy difficult to hit target with the blasters, they moved to slow. Other shooter games were able to have very fast shots while still making them visable. Dodging blasts was also quite easy. One hardly needed Force speed to accomplish.
13) Back to wall walking, I would like the distence to could do it to be doubled.
14) Something i wish form nearly every game I have played: I would like the NPCs in the game to be smart and effective in a realist fasion. Also I would like them to have limited ammo too. They could also have weapon veriety too. (I know its madness to desire that but i do)
15) The AI of the NPCs in the JK2 i thought were stupid. They moved, and did thinks I found annoying. I would like to see them do things, like jump behind cover, and move in realistic ways. They could do things a little more like Half-life. In JK2 they operated to much from a "Game Mechanics" mode of stratagy. Not very believable even if it worked.
16) A thing that also i didsliked in JK2 was the ability for the enimies to know ehre you are instentainiously, and through walls. I could see them using 3rd person view, bad guys around corners, who can see me, and they could keep their cross hair right no me, no mater where i moved, and the could not see. Also then there was those sniper guys too, how difficult it was for the player to be a acurate they were.
17) When operating the AT-ST I would have like a 1st person veiw. On that level where you used it, I hardly bothered with it, because the altitued i had to aim at 75% of the time was totally obscured from the very walker i was operating. Or a more ofset camera up or down would have worked.
18) I also agree that Fists would be nice. Especialy if your light saber is not in your hands. Also I would like to be able to swich weapons when the saber is out of my hands.
19) I am ot against the idea of having to aim on you fallen light saber in order to pull it back.. IT would make it interesting if you had to deal vs a light saber with out one becasue of were it fell, works well with hand to hand. And be nice if you can pick up other's light sabers. make battle interesting if you switch sabers back and forther, or pick up fallen opponents to get a secound one.
20) In multipayer I would like to sipulate specific powers as open or closed. I was not pleased with the point system implemented in Jk2.
21) In multiplayer I also would like an assult mode, where teams act as defender and attacker, like in Unreal, and more so Counterstrike.
22) In multiplayer, would like the bots to work much better. The moved so strangley, in little circles, and always moving their view up and down. Slowing the speed of backing up i think would help with them.
23) I would like Multiplayer to work like single player. I want them to be only diferent by human players. In JK2 they were like two differnt games. The powers work diferntly, the NPCs work diferntly, and visuals were all difernt. Also only allowing one personal Duel, needs to be eliminated. I think also if adding extra benifits to the personal dueling would help. Give more then just full health. More points, or bonous idems. exct.
24) I want to have harder difficulty settings of the game to include increasing number of opponents. Not simply making them super fighters.
ok, that was long. I spent to much time thinking about it. :atat:
There easier to read now.
uh, guys. Just asking for manual blocking "button" isn't very helpful to Raven. There's no explaination on how it would work or be balanced in the game.
Asking for a more "involving" blocking system is a more reasonable request because that gives Raven room to figure out how to impliment it since you don't seem to have a specific concept in mind anyway.
Depends how they do the blocking, it may get annoying having to hit so many buttons at a time. It's hard enough with all the force power keys.
Jesus people, Raven or anyone else can't read your suggestions when it's one huge paragraph. Use your enter key!! It's the big odd shaped one on your keyboard. :)
hmm, it would be cool if secondary fire for lightsaber was block! heh then block + attack could be like the counter i was talking about...
Originally posted by ryudom
hmm, it would be cool if secondary fire for lightsaber was block! heh then block + attack could be like the counter i was talking about... Well, that's sort of what I'm doing for MotF.
no no no. auto block is great (st least in SP). block button=bad :(
1. If you guys have read the latest interview, you'd know there's already some very hefty enhancements to the lightsaber combat, and more to come no doubt.
2. A manual block button sounds good on paper, but when you impliment it, it's rather horrible.
Originally posted by Emon
1. If you guys have read the latest interview, you'd know there's already some very hefty enhancements to the lightsaber combat, and more to come no doubt.
2. A manual block button sounds good on paper, but when you impliment it, it's rather horrible.
Uh...the latest interview says that they're using the same blue/yellow/red system with some "enhancements". There's no evidence that the enhancements is anything more than some balancing changes and the dual/double saber stuff.
And, I agree, fully manual blocking DOES NOT WORK for saber combat. It would, however, work for something like sword combat which is slower and where the fighters don't "see the future".
Well, here's hoping that the "enhancements" include less uber-moves, more depth to the combat, better blocking code, and true lethality. Damage should not be dependent upon how fast or hard you swing a sabre. All hits should be equal in damage, if you ask me (which nobody did, I realize).
I don't mind the blue/yellow/red system, but the differences should be how well they defend and attack, not how much damage they take off.
On another note, I'd love to have a class-based objective-focused game mode a la RTCW. I too have a bit of a problem with missile-launcher wieldin' jedi. That said, I would hope that this would simply be an additional game mode, and NOT that one style of play would end up taking the place of others. IE: DM should be left as it is and included, but also include the team/class-based multiplayer mode.
Anyway, I'm crossing my fingers for this one. I REALLY hope that it can finally give us the JK game we all hope for.
As much fun as it would be to block shots on your own. I don't see how that would work out. Like they said somewhere in one of the interviews they could not add to many force powers or it would be a mess. So the same thing applies with the saber combat system, things would be messy with an manual auto block system.
This game sounds great except for one little thing Quake 3, I seriously recomend switching to the Doom3 engine imagine it ohhhhhh a sequel on the same engine is hardly a sequel in my book.
Doom, Doom II, Final Doom....
They all were on the same engine. :)