being french isnt an excuse, i know other french guys who are quite articulate.

and do those french people know how to code?

acdcfanbill i speak too many languages and also to many computer languages.....
this is difficult to speak all correctly...

and you who critize my english, how many languages you speak?
probably just english your native language.....
Try to speak my language...
i am sure it will be funny for all french people



computer does not support any mistakes.....

but human brain does support and can easily understand....
I make a lot of effort when i code because i am forced to.
Now i am not that good in english
But when i have to anwser to many insults, or bashing speaking i make no effort..

Lol, I misspelled Insult as Unsult. Lol.

Slider, I meant no disrespect. I was just wondering. I too speak a few languages, including English and Spanish, and I used to speak a little Arabic and Japanese (I can't remember anything anymore, because I barley learned anything)

computer does not support any mistakes.....


I know. I have coded using C++, its annoying to only miss one symbole, like a ";" and the whole program won't run. It can be the same with Icarus scripting for JKA, not to mention shaders and stuff like that. ;)

Well well well, when push comes to shove and the modder gets scratched, what shows underneath is nothing more than a spoiled brat.

Slider, I'm not going to bother to even quote your poorly articulated dung you pathetically attempt to call your own opinion. Instead, I'm going to lay every little single card out infront of your eyes. Take the blinders off for a moment before you even begin to type a single word to refute the things I am about to lay out.

Frist of all, what Young Jedi Knight said in regards to how JA has died off is partially true:

Most of the competitive clans (who don't believe in this fairy tale honor horse**** made up by a delusional retard after having a session with Bubba *cough Slow Burn and the Saberist Code cough*) refused to move over to JA due to the fact that playing JA was taking a step BACKWARD to playing JKII.

By adding "flashy new acrobatics moves!" and "two more saber types!", what exactly did they screw up in the process?

-The kick: Arguably the best move a competitive player could pick up on, it was nowhere to be found (even in the leaked versions). The kick was ESSENTIAL to certain gametypes with the gimping of sabers from JKII v1.03 and onwards (Full Force CTF, Full Force Duel, etc). Kicking was a drain whore's worst nightmare, especially combined with PT and Grip.

-Force points for specials: This was hardly required to be implemented... Assinine at it's best. All moves from JKII had a counter once 1.04 was implemented (no more of that pivot BS ****). Other force combos that were widely accepted, such as FRage/DFA, were made obsolete. This anti-measure spam was unwarranted, and most mods immediately removed such conditions. This also brought about forceregentime 0, which led to massive force abuse of powers such as lightning and drain... but I digress. I'm talking about sabers and specials. Which brings me to my next point...

-Specials per saber style were unbalanced: They nerfed single neutral's undercut with an unwarranted pivot lock. DFA was gimped beyond all recognition. Dual-bladed saber's butterfly jump was brutal if connected; deadly if someone had their mouse sensitivity/cl_yawspeed cranked and was able to stick to their victim. Dual-bladed saber also had one of the most infamous bugs in JA stemming off of it's own kick. They could have thought of something better for both dual sabers involving duck+forward+attack1. The end result was single saber being gimped while the new sabers started to dominate. I'm leaving katas out of this one because my next point is...

Katas: The BIGGEST, most OBSCENE joke in the ENTIRE Dark Forces series lie in these pieces of crap for moves. "But these are used for dueling!!1" Yeah, like any real duelist is going to take you seriously if you decide to spam a bunch of retarded gestures like a raver on E with glowsticks ad-nauseum? "Say hi to spammy dual saber kata!" "Say hi to saber throw, bitch!"

On, and one minor point, once again all kata were not created equal. A dual saber user could stand in a crowd of FFA players and just suddenly use the kata to oblivion. Not only did this fustrate newbies, but with the adoption of forceregentime 0 by all the retards without a clue, it became a showstopper.

-New maps: What the hell happened here? Was it "Jedi Knight II's top ten rejected maps" that managed to squeeze it's way in? It seriously looked that way.

Poor netcode/server support: This was noticable on most servers I went to, especially when trying to connect to a server with ASE when I was still using that piece of junk. There was a lot of packetloss and lag about in any JA server I went to, and while some of the remaining might have finally stabalized, I wouldn't be surprised if the remaining servers were still utter pieces of garbage.

Not to mention for a while before the one and ONLY patch Raven put out (which subsequentially nerfed rolling as well), the in-game browser did not function as intended. This boned A LOT of the people who originally picked up the game and wanted to shoot for multiplayer right away and didn't know about ASE or Gamespy or other server browsers.

Now, with this and much, much more, why exactly would you want to move on from an established game to, in it's own right, a butchered expansion? It's one of those questions that begs to be asked.

Onto my second point, the honor codes... For christ sake, I shouldn't even have to reiterate the points I have made in the past to how such a mindset is detrimental to a game fundamentally based in a first-person shooter environment.

You think bowing is honor? Not attacking people with their sabers down is honor? You wouldn't know honor if it screwed you from behind and gave you the courtesy of a reach around. Those crybaby sissies you have so catered to in the past to the present Slider wouldn't even know the concepts of humility and respect. It's something old school gamers know that was lost when the new generation came in and got their asses kicked repeatedly.

I remember days where you'd connect into a server playing Quake through TCP/IP and just go all out. You'd frag someone, get the occasional camper, deal with the ****talker, but overall you had fun. You didn't accuse someone of being a lameass for having precise aim with the rocket launcher. You didn't cry cheater at the top of your lungs because someone popped you while you came around the corner making the sound level equivalent of a frightened elephant. In the end, all there was were complements, sharing of tactic, and ggs all around at the end of the map whether by timelimit or fraglimit.

Fast forward to today. It doesn't matter what game you go to" CS, UT2K4, HL2DM, JA. All games have a fundamental problem: The players are a bunch of whiners who can't take their lumps and shut up.

You're playing CS and score a headshot through a wall, lucky or filled with purpose. Instead of a complement for picking up on his sound trail and guessing where he might move to next, he cries that you're a collaborator to myg0t and tries to get you banned.

You're playing HL2CTF and you've been defending the base all map. You've used every weapon in your arsenal, and another wannabe group of flag cappers are coming for your flag. You're down to your Overwatch Rifle, clip of thirty and one Pulse charge left. **** the clip, launch the Pulse. After the group dies from the ricochet of the pulse, you're called a ball whore and people start to whine ad-nauseum.

You're playing JKII in a FF/SO Duel setting on duel_temple. You come across an opponent that cannot escape grip-kick for the life of him. Instead of learning how to counter GK, he might do a number of things... Grief the next person in line with the dis/reconnect bug, whine excessively in chat, etc.

This may be because of the spreading of malicious intent (I cited myg0t earlier), it may be because of the individualist mentality everyone seems to carry around (I'm the ****, no one can beat me!!1). When people can't have the game go their way, they might lose sight of the fact that it is a game (did YOUR parents ever instill that value upon you?). And when that happens, things can get very, very ugly.

The values of the older generation were lost on the younger generation, and now we're seeing the repercussions of it. Namely in the form of my third and final argument:

Admin mods.

The very thing Chosen One and Master Hex tried to avoid this time around was the same bloody monster you managed to create. You brought the one thing that doomed JKII's existence as a serious FPS over into JA, and you expect to NOT be burned for it? Not only that, but you ported over an EXACT replica of Jedi Academy/JediMod++ with potentially abusive commands. What exactly was going on in that ill-conceived mind of yours? I hope the publicity was worth it because the consequences of your actions have now caught up to you.

You gave those whining bitches I brought up a weapon more powerful than any saber or force power could ever match. The powers you gave to those self-proclaimed "I'm the **** and you're a lowly peasant!" retards did manage to do only one thing successfully:

Drive people away from the game.

And now you want to call yourself the redeemer of JA?

**** you.

You are no Master Hex.
You are no Dest.
You are no ArtifeX.
You are no Chosen One.
You are no Razorace.
You are no RenegadeofPhunk.
You are no Wudan.

Each of those people I listed above brought something unique to the Jedi Knight mod scene. Some were more acceptable than others, but none the less what could be done with the tools provided had impacts you wouldn't even begin to be able to comprehend.

Instead, all you are is a second rate hackjob. I'd even go to say you're the second coming of BOFH. This whole dimensional thing is the first (hold on, let me check that again, holy ****!) thing you must have managed to do by yourself. And when someone brings up one minute detail, you flip out like one of those "ninjas" you hear about over at realultimatepower.com.

Get the hell off your high horse. Amidala has had you by the last thread of life you possess this entire thread, I'm just waiting for her to end it.

(Now that this is over... someone want to point me to blademod? :) )

whoo hoo! someone remimbers Artifex's ProMod :)

You sound a little mad, Blackrose.

The only solution is a new JK game. It will take a while for coders to decipher and code a brand new admin mod.

If Raven had removed the duel challenge this whole thing may have been prevented. While I understand its purpose and think it is a good idea, without the challenge these n00bs never would have started thinking it was honorable.

To me, honor is fragging every guy left and right, jumping into a chaotic crowd of psycko saberists and thrashing them all, only to emerge victorious. Thats honorable...

Theres no honor in making human towers, or chatting around a duel pad. If I join a server right now, they will just be chatting. They think if they don't have a 100% fair chance at winning (cause they normally suck) its lame. Its lame to just walk up and stab them. Its lame to do anything they can't do, or something that kills them fast.

About the other deminsion: No one will join the fighting deminsion. Common sense, they will teleport "lamers" there and continue to chat. Meanwhile, the guy who wants to play will be by himself... sort of. Its pointless... you might as well kick him, or something.

Blackrose is not mad, he's just stating the cold hard truth.

Promod is awesome, I reinstalled JO 6 months ago just to play it again. :D

I went server hoping. I found a server with the alt dimension thing. While I was wrong, people are using it... the server lagged (mods just lag.... I never have a lot of problems with basejka) I joined the no rules dimension and started to fight. Problem: 5 people were in the room, 2 in the same dimension, and 3 others not in. How can I tell who is in, and who isn't. I tried fighting someone, and just went through them. Then I didn't attack someone, and they killed me. I just... got annoyed, through lag and everything else I couldn't tell who was where and on what side.

At least make people not in your deminsion invisable... it will save FPS, and possibly cut out some lag.

lukeskywalker1
this is because you don't have the plugin

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
The only solution is a new JK game. It will take a while for coders to decipher and code a brand new admin mod.

LOL that would solve nothing lukeskywalker1 things would start all over. What raven and lucasarts need to do is Code a admin mod in the base game with two commands and that is KICK and BAN and DO NOT GIVE OUT THE SOURCE CODE NEEDED TO MAKE THE MODS....The whole reason there are so many freaking mods is because the majority of the JKA community Whined because they could not kick/ban people that were causing trouble (so raven released the Code so these mods can be made) and the reason for the excessive whining was because most Server Owners Were leery on giving out the Rcon password (which I totally understand because I don't think that even Amidala would want to give out rcon pass)

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
If Raven had removed the duel challenge this whole thing may have been prevented. While I understand its purpose and think it is a good idea, without the challenge these n00bs never would have started thinking it was honorable.


I personally like being able to duel in FFA there is nothing more that I hate then having to wait 20 mins to duel in a duel server only to have some Nut use a exploit in the game (which there are tons of in duel mode). To me that is not fun (isn't that why we play games is to have fun???) sooo I go to the FFA servers and duel when ever I want and for however long I want and I don't have to wait in line for 20 minutes just to play...

Originally posted by Young Jedi King
[B]LOL that would solve nothing lukeskywalker1 things would start all over. What raven and lucasarts need to do is Code a admin mod in the base game with two commands and that is KICK and BAN and DO NOT GIVE OUT THE SOURCE CODE NEEDED TO MAKE THE MODS....

This doesn't make sense. Quake3 engine has always had the ability to kick and ban people. JK2/JA are no exception. It was built into the game from day 1.

The source code is the problem. Yes, without the release of the source code, none of these admin mods could ever have been made. Of course any good mod (like OJP or ProMod3, ForceMod3, Movie Battles) would also never have been made. We'd just have skins, new models, some maps and sounds, but no radically altered gameplay mods.


The whole reason there are so many freaking mods is because the majority of the JKA community Whined because they could not kick/ban people that were causing trouble (so raven released the Code so these mods can be made)

See above. You could always kick and ban. It had nothing to do with that. They released the source code because they wanted to give players the ability to mod this game as so many other games have been moddable in the Quake3 series. It was not a decision they made to quell whining.

There was a group whining very early on about "honorz." They wanted to be able to have a no force saber duel anytime, anywhere, without interferance from people with guns.

The thing is, Raven even did them a favor with JK2, because the lightsaber challenge was a feature built right into the FFA game. You had to disable it for it not to work!

The trouble is, even this wasn't enough for the "honorz" whiners. They wanted to make it so that NO OTHER TYPE OF GAMEPLAY WAS POSSIBLE, PERIOD. So they supported the admin mods makers, which appealed to their snobbery. Thus we end up with servers running JA+ Mod where any other gameplay other than challenging somebody to a private duel is impossible (and if you beat the admin or his subadmin friends too often he'll slap/sleep/bangun you off the map when it suites him).


and the reason for the excessive whining was because most Server Owners Were leery on giving out the Rcon password (which I totally understand because I don't think that even Amidala would want to give out rcon pass)

I don't see the big deal here. Why should the admin of a server give lots of other people admin abilities? This doesn't make sense. How many other games have "sub admins" in addition to regular admins? I don't know of any, but maybe you can name some. The subadmin system in the JK2/JA mods may have had a good intention.. ie: that the admin who wanted to run a server 24/7 but was "too busy" to watch it all the time would give others some limited powers there to keep things running smoothly.

In practice however it's just used as a reward system. If you brownnose the admin enough, he'll let you in on his sleep/slap/bangun antics. Or it just helps to serve the clan ethic.. clan members stick together and everyone else joining the server gets screwed. Of course if clans are about competition you'd think that this would be the total antithesis of such gameplay.

I associate clans with team games. But the honorz crowd favors one style of gameplay, the one on one saber duel with no force. So what is the point of having a clan for that? Just to have a one on one duel tournament ladder? That's about all you could possibly do. The point of training with a group of people to coordinate tactics then becomes pointless. It's just a saber dueling club. It doesn't matter if you have two members or 2 thousand.

The admin mods have become "panic buttons" for admins who get beaten fair and square, and "messing around" mods for bored admins who want to grief people. That and the RPG chatrooms which feature no competitive gameplay whatosever...


I personally like being able to duel in FFA there is nothing more that I hate then having to wait 20 mins to duel in a duel server only to have some Nut use a exploit in the game (which there are tons of in duel mode). To me that is not fun (isn't that why we play games is to have fun???)

Admin mods have done nothing to fix the exploits in the game. Your only recourse is to whine to the admin to "lame" the person who you think or want to claim is "exploiting." Rather than fix the problem, this game just turned the admins/subadmins into thugs who get to beat up people they don't like with impunity. At least in the past a sore loser admin had two options: remove the player beating you from the game and thus look like you're a sore loser, or suck it up and try to beat him using the same gameplay tactics available to all.

As far as waiting for a duel, well that's just how it is. If a server is running duel mode and there's 50 people waiting, that's really boring. I wouldn't host a duel server with more than 8 slots, it's just too much waiting (6 is better than 8).

As far as saber challenges, a duel can last a long time if people are good (or the saber damage is set really low). Some admin mods added the ability for multiple duels, but even OJP has that. You don't need slap/sleep/slay/bunny/empower/bangun for that. You don't need subadmins or teleportation commands for that.

sooo I go to the FFA servers and duel when ever I want and for however long I want and I don't have to wait in line for 20 minutes just to play...

Fine. Though I'd say joining a FFA to play a duel is kind of silly. You say you don't want to wait, ok. But it's impatience. They made it so only one saber challenge can occur at a time for a reason. You wait your turn because this is just a bonus gameplay feature, not the core of the game (which is fighting all out with sabers, guns and force with a bunch of people) intended by the developers.

Don't you think there's other people out there who want to play this game too? Not everyone wants to just duel. For that hosting your own server or playing on a network with your friends makes more sense. And so for the convenience of letting you duel forever, everybody else suffers because they find it difficult to find a server that isn't doing just that. I'm not blaming you for the problem, just this mentality you have that is shared by far too many JK2/JA players, unfortunately. It's the elitest attitude that this 1% of the gameplay is the only one which should be allowed, and which inspired these admin mods to take over. Of course the other side is the sore loser mentality (the idea that we have to "GET those 'lamers' for what they did to me"), but still, I hope you see what I'm getting at.

JA/JK2 were not made as dueling only games, but some players insist that everyone and everything should revolve around this. That's part of what has ruined the game. Some people focusing on 1% of the gameplay created by the developers and insisting that everyone do this or suffer.

No offense intended, but I think I've made my point. I didn't want to turn this into another debate over the issues of gameplay or why admin mods can suck. We've beaten that dead horse already.

If slider can actually improve his mod that has taken over half the JA community and make it less abusive, so much the better.

Originally posted by Kurgan
This doesn't make sense. Quake3 engine has always had the ability to kick and ban people. JK2/JA are no exception. It was built into the game from day 1.

True Kurgan and please correct me if I’m wrong it requires the Rcon password does it not??

Originally posted by Kurgan
The source code is the problem. Yes, without the release of the source code, none of these admin mods could ever have been made. Of course any good mod (like OJP or ProMod3, ForceMod3, Movie Battles) would also never have been made. We'd just have skins, new models, some maps and sounds, but no radically altered gameplay mods.

You are right in that aspect kurgan it would pretty much kill the mod’ing community and the game in the long run…but as long as there are the players that like admin mods (which we both should know there always will be) there will always be some one to make them and of course someone to complain about said mod.

Originally posted by Kurgan
How many other games have "sub admins" in addition to regular admins? I don't know of any, but maybe you can name some.

Your right there is very few games that have sub admin systems if any at all… However there is also very few admin systems that have the power one has with rcon. Now I could be wrong but was that not the whole reason these admin mods/sub admin systems were made was so server owners did not have to give out rcon pasword???

Originally posted by Kurgan
I associate clans with team games. But the honorz crowd favors one style of gameplay, the one on one saber duel with no force. So what is the point of having a clan for that? Just to have a one on one duel tournament ladder? That's about all you could possibly do. The point of training with a group of people to coordinate tactics then becomes pointless.

I have seen some of these “honorz” clans (as you put it) do a team FFA match and some of these matches are just as fun to watch and play in as a FFA with full force and guns… On the other hand I do agree there are a few people out there that I wonder what have they been smoking with the “rules” they have but I also know they pay for the server they can do what ever they want doesn’t mean I have to go to that server…

Originally posted by Kurgan
The admin mods have become "panic buttons" for admins who get beaten fair and square, and "messing around" mods for bored admins who want to grief people. That and the RPG chatrooms which feature no competitive gameplay whatosever...

Well how would you resolve this problem if you release the code needed to mod the game you pretty much have to expect an admin mod to come out…. I guess that what I was trying to point out in my past post kurgan is we have to take the bad with the good and quit the complaining about Ja+ because there will always be that one coder out there that wants to have the popular mod no matter what he/she has to do. Just so all know I know the maker of OmNi mod (from jk2) he was going to release his mod in jka but got beat to the punch by slider so either way there was going to be a admin mod in jka not matter what anyone wanted…..

Originally posted by Kurgan
Admin mods have done nothing to fix the exploits in the game. Your only recourse is to whine to the admin to "lame" the person who you think or want to claim is "exploiting."

I know this Kurgan besides why would an admin mod fix these exploits???? I look more to OJP (and other mods) to fix the exploits in duel mode and FFA then I do for JA+ to me JA+ is nothing more then a FUN mod….

Originally posted by Kurgan
Rather than fix the problem, this game just turned the admins/subadmins into thugs who get to beat up people they don't like with impunity.

To me I blame the server owners and the admin’s abusing the powers more then I do the Mod makers but that’s me..

Originally posted by Kurgan
As far as waiting for a duel, well that's just how it is. If a server is running duel mode and there's 50 people waiting, that's really boring. I wouldn't host a duel server with more than 8 slots, it's just too much waiting (6 is better than 8).

I whish more Basejka duel server’s had that sediment but alas most duel servers that I have come across do not and the ones that do are usually running blademod which is not a bad mod but the players are all concerned about there “stats” to fight….

Originally posted by Kurgan
As far as saber challenges, a duel can last a long time if people are good (or the saber damage is set really low). Some admin mods added the ability for multiple duels, but even OJP has that. You don't need slap/sleep/slay/bunny/empower/bangun for that. You don't need subadmins or teleportation commands for that.
Don't you think there's other people out there who want to play this game too? Not everyone wants to just duel. For that hosting your own server or playing on a network with your friends makes more sense. And so for the convenience of letting you duel forever, everybody else suffers because they find it difficult to find a server that isn't doing just that. I'm not blaming you for the problem, just this mentality you have that is shared by far too many JK2/JA players, unfortunately.

I agree you don’t need the slap/sleep/slay/bunny/empower/bangun/ghost commands infact if those commands were gotten rid out of every mod I would not care…I’m not a Honor player or a Real Gamer To be honest I don’t really care I go to a server if there just standing around doing the honor thing I’m not going to care I’ll play by there rules (since it’s there server same as you ask people to abide forums rules) I also like a good FFA if I find a server that I like I add it to my favorite’s list and I go back I have quite a few server in my favs list one of which is Chop Shop

Originally posted by Kurgan
It's the elitest attitude that this 1% of the gameplay is the only one which should be allowed, and which inspired these admin mods to take over. Of course the other side is the sore loser mentality (the idea that we have to "GET those 'lamers' for what they did to me"), but still, I hope you see what I'm getting at.

JA/JK2 were not made as dueling only games, but some players insist that everyone and everything should revolve around this. That's part of what has ruined the game. Some people focusing on 1% of the gameplay created by the developers and insisting that everyone do this or suffer.

No offense intended, but I think I've made my point.

Kurgan I understand what your trying to strees and no offense was taken infact I understood what the real gamers were trying to tell people but I’m of the logic that people will be people there will always be that sore loser there will always be the coder that will do anything for his mod to be most used and there will always be people out there that want a admin mod so I have come to a point were I just don’t care I’m there to play a game nothing more..

Originally posted by Kurgan
I didn't want to turn this into another debate over the issues of gameplay or why admin mods can suck. We've beaten that dead horse already.

I don’t think you have….this turned into a debate on the first page lol…and yes this horse has been dead for months now....

Originally posted by Young Jedi King
What raven and lucasarts need to do is Code a admin mod in the base game with two commands and that is KICK and BAN and DO NOT GIVE OUT THE SOURCE CODE NEEDED TO MAKE THE MODS....

They should still give out the source code, so mods like ForceMod and MovieBattles can be made. But what they should do is put some line in the license agreement that says they reserve the right to shut down a server using a mod they deem abusive.

What defines abusive, TK? To us, yeah, its abusive. To them its fun.

Besides the Honor Community (sadly) is greater than the hardcore community (in numbers.) LucasArts would be smart to provide for them because it will bring in more cash.

Plus, it would cost too much money to find and shut down abusive servers. The idea, while good, is to unrealistic.

It seems to me, that LucasArts releases the SDKs so that players can fix bugs and add on to the game things that LA doesn't want to be bothered with. :( It also helps promote programmers and such, that could be potential employees later on.

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
What defines abusive, TK?

Common sense.

A competent company could do it. Sure it would take some extra effort, but if a company cared about the game they put out they would do what they can to keep multiplayer sane, at least.

After seeing Jedi Oucast MP go to hell, you'd think Raven/LA would have done something to stop JA from following the same path, but didn't...

Theres not a lot they could do... sadly. They wanted to release the SDK, but the problem is, with coding comes and infinate ammount of possibilities, including admin mods.

Its obvious the admins don't *really* care about banning and kicking, they enjoy slapping and sleeping people.

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
You sound a little mad, Blackrose.

I'm legally insane, not mad. Get it right. ;)

The only solution is a new JK game. It will take a while for coders to decipher and code a brand new admin mod.

And we would be right back to square one. All you would be doing is acknowledging a vicious cycle that started.

Instead, I'd like to see what Kurgan and Young Jedi were bringing up: a sub-admin section within Raven's own game that has access to only kick and ban. That's it. The problem with handing rcon out left and right means that if someone has the password to your server, some clueless idjit is going to bone it. That solves a myriad of problems within itself.

If Raven had removed the duel challenge this whole thing may have been prevented.

I call BS.

Duel challenge was a mediation between the honor and competitive crowd at it's finest. I don't mind the challenging and all that stuff: sometimes I don't mind taking a break from hacking at limbs in FFA just for a 1v1 beatdown. But as the old adage goes, "give an inch, take it a mile." That's exactly what the honor crowd did.

While I understand its purpose and think it is a good idea, without the challenge these n00bs never would have started thinking it was honorable.

I'm thinking more of the wannabe samurai/knights than a gameplay mechanic on that issue... Kurgan's posted a spiel on it before, so I'll spare the detail.

Theres no honor in making human towers, or chatting around a duel pad. If I join a server right now, they will just be chatting. They think if they don't have a 100% fair chance at winning (cause they normally suck) its lame. Its lame to just walk up and stab them. Its lame to do anything they can't do, or something that kills them fast.

At least you get it...

About the other deminsion: No one will join the fighting deminsion. Common sense, they will teleport "lamers" there and continue to chat. Meanwhile, the guy who wants to play will be by himself... sort of. Its pointless... you might as well kick him, or something.

Remind me to remind Raven about naming their next Jedi Knight game with MP packaged:

Jedi Knight II: Jedi Academy: Jedi IRC!

LucasArts wants their products to be as profitable as possible (as does every company) so they copy what other game companies do and release the source code, hoping modders will make another CounterStrike or Team Fortress, which expand the game and greatly increase the longevity and market for the game. Unfortunately, JK2 and JA ended up with two admin mods (JA Mod for JK2 and JA+ for JA) that helped to reduce the popularity and longevity of those games.

They also must realize that there are a large number of "honor" players who like to duel and chat, and they need to cater to those players. Unfortunately, the only way "honor" players can do what they want to do is to pervert and misuse the "Free For All" gametype, leading to the whole "laming" problem and the admin mods and the abuse that have followed them. So-called "laming" and player abuse are problems only on "Free For All" servers. It isn't an issue on Siege, CTF, Team FFA, Duel, or Power Duel servers.

Unfortunately, "Free For All" servers are the logical place for new players to go when they get JK2 or JA. And whether they are total newbies or vets of other games, they are likely to have no idea what "laming" is. They get abused and humiliated when they start going to JK "FFA" servers, and many of them uninstall the game or never play JK MP again. So the game never becomes as popular as it could have been, and the "honor" players become even more dominant, both by brainwashing and assimilating some new players, and by driving out others.

If it was up to me, I would do the following:

[list=1]
Create a new gametype specifically for the chat-and-duel honor players. Call it "Multiple Dueling" or whatever. Make it automatically saber-only and with the usual duel-challenge and multiple simultaneous duels that the mods have. BUT, only players who are actively dueling could ignite their sabers or use Force, if Force is enabled. No one on the server would have guns or explosives, and people not actively dueling couldn't ignite their sabers and couldn't use Force. So-called "laming" would be impossible. There would be no need for admins patrolling the server like prison guards, looking for "lamers".

Restore "Free For All" to its true deathmatch nature. g_weapondisable, g_forcepowerdisable, and g_forceregentime would all be cheat-protected or eliminated altogether. All FFA servers would be full-weapon and full-Force with default Force regeneration, for consistency.

By creating the new saber-only, "no laming" "Multiple Duel" gametype separate from full-weapon, full-Force unrestricted deathmatch "FFA", everyone would be happy. The chat-and-duel "honor" players would have something designed specifically for the way they like to play, and it wouldn't be mislabelled as "Free For All" as it is now. "Laming" would be impossible, and abuse would be unnecessary. New players who went to a "Free For All" server would find exactly what they were expecting, instead of what they find now.

Incorporate some of the admin mod features into the game: expanded ban list in an external file, client IP address or CD key logging, multi-line MOTD, and subadmin accounts. Subadmins could only silence, kick, or ban. This is to deal with the spammers, hackers, cheaters, and griefers in every game that must be dealt with. But subadmins wouldn't be unnaturally powerful as they are now, and they wouldn't be able to humiliate players with the silly amabuse commands on a whim.

Instead of freely distributing the SDK, require people who want to download it to sign an agreement that states what things (such as abuse-prone commands) can't be part of any mod made with the SDK. Make it clear that LucasArts reserves the right to revoke the license of any modder that breaks the agreement, and gives them the power to have file hosting sites remove offending mods from their sites.
[/list=1]

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
Incorporate some of the admin mod features into the game: expanded ban list in an external file, client IP address or CD key logging.

The Problem with CD key logging is if there is a admin with ill intent could/would easily copy the CD key then post it on the Internet then the players that do not like to buy games would have a whole new exploit then to actually pay for the game….

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
Instead of freely distributing the SDK, require people who want to download it to sign an agreement that states what things (such as abuse-prone commands) can't be part of any mod made with the SDK. Make it clear that LucasArts reserves the right to revoke the license of any modder that breaks the agreement, and gives them the power to have file hosting sites remove offending mods from their sites.

I personally foresee one major problem with that suggestion what game developer would and want to spend there time and there money to enforce the agreement???… To me Lucastarts does not seem the type to do this. Raven is a great developers I haven’t run into many developers were the people that actually made the game help other people expand on it. However once they deliver there product they have to move on to the next project I doubt they would want to pull there team off a new project to enforce a agreement (nor should it be there responsibility to). To me that falls on Lucasart’s head but as I stated Lucasarts doesn’t seem the type to spend the time or money to enforce the agreement…

The Jedi Knight games don't currently use CD keys. I just included that in case for the next game they go to a different engine that uses CD keys to ban players.

LucasArts wouldn't have to spend any time or money policing mods. Just making modders sign that agreement would send a clear message that the company doesn't want kids playing their games to be abused and humiliated. What company would want their customers to be treated like that? All they would have to do is provide an special email address where people could report the existence of an abusive or inappropriate mod. It would take less than an hour for someone at the company to verify that the mod is in violation of the license agreement. Then they send a cease and desist email to the modder, and emails to the admins at lucasfiles.com, jk3files.com, pcgamemods.com, etc. to pull the file. Done.

Amidala, while your idea cuts down on abuse there is a problem with it. The ammount of FFA servers would be around 20, and there would be "multiple duel" servers everywhere.

Create a new gametype specifically for the chat-and-duel honor players. Call it "Multiple Dueling" or whatever. Make it automatically saber-only and with the usual duel-challenge and multiple simultaneous duels that the mods have. BUT, only players who are actively dueling could ignite their sabers or use Force, if Force is enabled. No one on the server would have guns or explosives, and people not actively dueling couldn't ignite their sabers and couldn't use Force. So-called "laming" would be impossible. There would be no need for admins patrolling the server like prison guards, looking for "lamers".

Yeah, its annoying to walk into a server and have some guy grip you, then you hit absorb and slash him, and he cries lamer. I can't stand that.

Just for the record, Slider and I were able to meet up and discussed some issues for about an hour, if not more. I was able to confirm a few issues that are still in the latest version and he's already working on it.

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
Amidala, while your idea cuts down on abuse there is a problem with it. The ammount of FFA servers would be around 20, and there would be "multiple duel" servers everywhere.


If we had 20 active "real FFA" servers that would be about 15 more than we have now.

Sure there are lots of so-called "FFA" servers now, but most are really chat-and-duel servers. Making a new gametype just recognizes that reality and eliminates the confusion and false-advertising caused by "honor" chat-and-duelers running so-called "FFA" servers that aren't actually "Free For All". It's a win-win solution with no downside.

i didnt read it all. but as soon as i saw ja+ and understood the amaltdim i suggested slider to make it server pickable.. which dimension u prefered default.

In my oppinion ja+ is an awesome mod. Always been. That other admits completly abuse it is their problem.

I think slider did an awesome job preventing people to abuse the features. I would say JA+ is near perfect.

I would say JA+ is severly flawed, but thats just my opinion.

I think slider did an awesome job preventing people to abuse the features.

I don't. It seems to me (correct me if I am wrong) he agrees with the admins who abuse, because they need to keep order on their servers. If he wanted to prevent them from abusing the features, he wouldn't have included them in the mod.

That other admits completly abuse it is their problem.

No, its not their problem when it disrupts my gameplay. They are perfectly fine with slapping me around the map. I am not.

Let's not forget clans that are just waiting for you to "lame" one of them so they can have an excuse for slapping you around and gangbanging you.

Yes, a bunch of Kyles standing there, twitching and moving now and then, most of them with their chat bubbles above their heads, looking at you as you are "sleeping"

Seriously, I miss Saber Only Full Force FFA servers.

Also what's with some people considering Force being "lame"? I often get comments like "you are lame, force noob"

Master William, I am waiting for them to say Katas are lame... or something. If you beat them, you must have used some kind of "lame" method, because we all know that no one can compete with any clan memeber's 1337 skills. :rolleyes:

I think I'll take a nap as you guys continue to debate. :D Don't lame me, remember, my saber will be down. ;)

Well if you end up in abusive servers just leave and go to another until you find a good one.

Believe me slider isn't for the abusive admins not at all. If he was he wouldn't have made my server a beta test server.

I think ja+ is very good it gives so much more dimension to playing jedi academy. So much more you can do and just because ja+ can make things easier. I never forgot where i came from (jk2 1.02) JA+ never changed me. I still fight the same way, do the same things. JA+ just adds a big list of other things I can do.

Those abusive admins they would have been abusive even without JA+. just leave the server. When I notice another server abusing the JA+ features.. Like disabling all force. I ussualy ask: You think force is lame or something? They ussualy reply with yes.

So then I simply go. If force is lame, darth vader and luke skywalker are lame. if they are lame, then star wars is lame. If star wars is lame, JA is lame. If JA is lame and you are playing it. That makes you lame as well.

Then they ussualy shut up or ban me =P but it's the truth. If you disable like 1 or 2 forces. Ok that's not a problem but a few to all? or all weapons? that completly ruins the game.

I cant wait for slider to enable the option of turning the dimensions the other way around. I really prefer fighting in the no rules dimension because people usually run away with grapple or jetpack and I like the fact that you cant use admin.

Just wish you guys would stop looking at just the abusive servers but also to the non abusive servers. See what a great mod JA+ is. This mod has so much potential. Like I always say. Don't take it out on the mod or slider because hes trying his best to stop people from abusing it. Take it out on the abusive admins. Their the blame. If ja+ wouldn't excist it would have been another mod who would get the blame. BLAME THE ADMINS!

Originally posted by VaSBuffy
If ja+ wouldn't excist it would have been another mod who would get the blame.
No, ja+ is as anoying as boring, i get tired of playing with it seeing all the people laming and escaping with the jetpack or doing an special attack while they are going to you with the grapple, etc. Just look in jk2, there where much more mods (i think the perfect mod was JediMod) and the only one i got tired of it was sliders mod.
I don't know, maybe you should try more mods in your server and then talk. :rolleyes:

Yea the "FFA" fighting is pretty much dead now after the "your laming me" era began. I like JA+, but I can see Slider is now watering down the admin which taking away amslay and watering down amempower. Those two things is the only ones ive noticed of the changes in the latest update. I view JA+ and other admin mods a tool that can be used for good or bad. Slider has been grateful to code this mod for us to use. Buffy is right if you find urself in an abusive server, leave and never go back thats what I do. And with those servers without full weapons or full force, not all people like to play the game that way. Some people just wanna duel with sabers which alot of them are good at. I do agree that alot of these mods has destroyed the game play since the beginning of JO. You could join a real ffa game and have a real battle and no one would yell "Lame".

Light ninja. I played other mods tried them out. JA+ is still my favorite. those things u mentioned are eliminated with the 2 dimensions. In my servers we have ffa fights all the time.

I have a suggestion for slider. Now that the "two dimensions" thing is in his mod, he should do the following:

Put in an EXPLICIT clause in his readme file that says you aren't allowed to host old versions. Send the word out to websites hosting old versions of his mod, that they have to take them down, via author's request (if he can't do it himself).

This will limit the damage done by old versions that don't contain these improved features and help phase out the obsolete ones.

To Young Jedi King:

Originally posted by Young Jedi King
True Kurgan and please correct me if I’m wrong it requires the Rcon password does it not??

Yeah, and your point is? Rcon is Remote Control. Normally a game is adminned by one person, the person who owns the server. I don't see a problem with this. Most games don't allow you to have 50 people adminnning a single server. That's overkill. But for some reason all the admin mods felt the need to put in "subadmins." This just means that instead of one abusive admin, you now can give "admin powers" to all of your abusive friends as well. So in a CTF game you can give your entire team the ability to slap/sleep/slay the other team to death. Pretty stupid.

So admins being reluctant to give out their Rcon password to random strangers is really no argument at all. That's how it's supposed to work. It's like people who want to admin servers but are too lazy or cheap to get their own.


And anyway, having subadmins doesn't mean that all the abusive commands are justified. The only reason subadmins are so popular is because they get access to the "godlike" super powers (like slap/sleep/punish/teleport) that the abusive admins get. If they only had warn, kick, ban and the ability to restart the map, how many people would honestly seek them?

You are right in that aspect kurgan it would pretty much kill the mod’ing community and the game in the long run…but as long as there are the players that like admin mods (which we both should know there always will be) there will always be some one to make them and of course someone to complain about said mod.

The thing is, the ration of people who want to be megalomaniacal "anti lamer" admins is disproportionate to the number of coders able to create admin mods. This small group of coders has the responsibility. If they don't create such mods, the vast majority of power hungry 12 year olds who like to slap people won't bother to learn to code in order to make one. They'll just beg and whine to try to get their way.

Your right there is very few games that have sub admin systems if any at all… However there is also very few admin systems that have the power one has with rcon.

Not sure how this is relevant. Rcon is in all Quake3 based games. UT has a similar admin system built in. Most games do these days (with some exceptions like Republic Commando). Being able to change game settings, kick and ban are just standard features. Being able to do it through a command line remotely is also not that big a deal.

Admin mods take it way too far, by making it so that you can win the game by pressing buttons, using abilities that have no counters and that the other players can't use. It's like having a "win" button and a "make other player lose" button. It's silly.

It's like somebody decided "you know what, I really wish Jedi Academy was exactly like an IRC chatroom with me as the head Op and people I hate as the players" and then went from there, creating admin mods.


Now I could be wrong but was that not the whole reason these admin mods/sub admin systems were made was so server owners did not have to give out rcon pasword???

I don't know, and I don't care. The point is, the subadmin system just encourages the abuse to get spread around to more people. It gives people an incentive to suck up to abusive admins so they can gain some of that "power" themselves. This in turn lends more temptation to the whole "cheating" angle. Now instead of one guy flying around invincible slapping people, you can have his whole team or his whole clan doing it to everyone who connects.

Of course having even one unstoppable player in the game ruins things, but it's even worse when you have lots of them.


I have seen some of these “honorz” clans (as you put it) do a team FFA match and some of these matches are just as fun to watch and play in as a FFA with full force and guns…

So they stand around and duel each other with No Force One at a time?

That's not a team game, that's a ladder. There's a big difference. And if somebody starts typing, they have to stand there and wait for them to finish. And don't get me started on all the bowing and other nonesense. And if somebody turns their saber off, this person is completely untouchable. You can't have a competative game with those kinds of restrictions because it's too open to abuse and subjective judgement calls. That's why games are programmed. Otherwise we might as well be moving flashing orbs around the screen and writing down our scores on a piece of paper, according to whatever rules we want to imagine.

On the other hand I do agree there are a few people out there that I wonder what have they been smoking with the “rules” they have but I also know they pay for the server they can do what ever they want doesn’t mean I have to go to that server…

Right, the trouble is that honorz and admin mods have infected most of the community. It's very difficult to find a stable server that's not part of this honorz/admin mod bandwagon. Thus people who bought the game to play it how it was intended are left out in the cold.

That's a pretty big slap in the face to them and the developers of the game.

It's like if people bought Expensive Cars just to toss them off cliffs. It's like okay, so the people who designed and built the cars are getting paid, but all their hard work is basically being trashed (literally) for a purpose it wasn't intended. Why bother anymore?


Well how would you resolve this problem if you release the code needed to mod the game you pretty much have to expect an admin mod to come out…

Not so. How many online games with open editing have NOT had abusive admin mods released for them? Most have not. It's only JK2, JA, and Half Life, and possibly Quake1 that have done it, according to the info people have posted. More popular games than that haven't had abusive admin mods created.

For some reason these Duelist honor obsessed people have taken over the Jedi community and made up their own dogma that they expect everyone to follow. The admin mods are just their "tool" to punish heretics (ie: people who play the game as intended).

I guess that what I was trying to point out in my past post kurgan is we have to take the bad with the good and quit the complaining about Ja+ because there will always be that one coder out there that wants to have the popular mod no matter what he/she has to do.

We have as much a right to complain when he does something stupid, as he has a right to continue doing said actions. Where does this idea that we shouldn't complain about a bad mod that's ruining the community come from?

If he didn't want criticism, he shouldn't have released his mod to the public, period. So it's an exchange that will continue, indefinately. Sure, he cna't please everyone, but I think anyone can see that his mod, which is extremely popular, has turned the community into something it was never intended to be.

It'd be like if somebody made a mod for Doom3 wherein it made the game FullBright all the time and took away all weapons and monsters. You just walked around the halls and talked to people in a virtual chat room. And this mod was so popular that 95% of Doom3 owners used it all the time.

Then these people started attacking people who didn't use it, and presurring them to use the mod, and if they didn't like it, they were shunned and excluded. It'd be silly right?

People who bought the game and wanted to play it basically aren't allowed to, by these people. They are only allowed to MISuse it.

Just so all know I know the maker of OmNi mod (from jk2) he was going to release his mod in jka but got beat to the punch by slider so either way there was going to be a admin mod in jka not matter what anyone wanted…..

Slider was still wrong to do it. All the people who made abusive admin mods were wrong. They are all to blame. He could have stopped or cleaned up his mod anytime, but apparently he let his pride go to his head, and went with what was popular, rather than what was good for the community or made sense. Sorry to say.


I know this Kurgan besides why would an admin mod fix these exploits???? I look more to OJP (and other mods) to fix the exploits in duel mode and FFA then I do for JA+ to me JA+ is nothing more then a FUN mod….

Because all these admin mod creators CLAIM that their mod is designed to "put the admin BACK in the driver's seat" (as if they were not there already) and "give the admin control of his server" (as if he didn't have it already).

Many of them also claim to be "revolutionary" and "improved." What is improved or revolutionary about a mod that is full of chaotic features that destroy any semblance of game balance, and let an admin basically cheat and destroy the flow of the game? In fact, that encourage such actions?

It's false advertising. Fixing exploits would be an improvement to the game.

Thus all of these admin mods are worthless compared to OJP. There, I said it.

Even the best admin mod that features abusive commands is just chocolate coated dung by comparison. You still get crap when you bite it.

To me I blame the server owners and the admin’s abusing the powers more then I do the Mod makers but that’s me..

They couldn't be so abusive if the tools were not handed to them on a silver platter. So the Admin Mod makers are the #1 person to blame in all this. The fact that people agree with them and gleefully use their mods is no excuse.


I whish more Basejka duel server’s had that sediment but alas most duel servers that I have come across do not and the ones that do are usually running blademod which is not a bad mod but the players are all concerned about there “stats” to fight….

I haven't used blademod. But if it lacks abusive commands, then I don't have an argument with it. A mod is a mod. If you took away the abusive commands, JA+ would just be a poor mod (ie: one that's interesting, but unbalanced). Since Slider is constantly working on it, that might change someday, but until he removes the abusive commands, my criticism of it stands.

What is holding him back? That he'd admit to a mistake? Or that he's reluctant to upset the "honorz" people who want to slap, sleep and fly around while invincible to impress noobs?

I agree you don’t need the slap/sleep/slay/bunny/empower/bangun/ghost commands infact if those commands were gotten rid out of every mod I would not care…

If that happened, it would indeed be a great day for the community. All of that crap began in JK2, and it could have stopped if these guys would just take some responsiblity for their actions and clean up their act. Instead they tried to fork the blame onto others and their supporters did the same (as you did with your "well, I blame the bad people who abuse these commands, not the people who invented them").

Break the chain, that's what I'm saying.

I’m not a Honor player or a Real Gamer To be honest I don’t really care I go to a server if there just standing around doing the honor thing I’m not going to care I’ll play by there rules (since it’s there server same as you ask people to abide forums rules) I also like a good FFA if I find a server that I like I add it to my favorite’s list and I go back I have quite a few server in my favs list one of which is Chop Shop

I didn't get any of the Jedi games so I could stand around and chat with people. I didn't get them so I could have a duel once in a great while without force powers. I got them because I knew you could use Force, Guns, and Sabers in an exciting combat environment, that rose above the likes of Quake and other pure gunning games.

I didn't want to Role Play, and I thought that wouldn't be a problem because these were First Person Shooters, not role playing games.

And this is another point. Various HonorZ and RPG advocates constantly go "well it's NOT a first person shooter!" "it's a third person slasher with RPG basis!" wrong, wrong, and wrong. These people don't even understand what they're saying.


Kurgan I understand what your trying to strees and no offense was taken infact I understood what the real gamers were trying to tell people but I’m of the logic that people will be people there will always be that sore loser there will always be the coder that will do anything for his mod to be most used and there will always be people out there that want a admin mod so I have come to a point were I just don’t care I’m there to play a game nothing more..

The thing is, modders don't HAVE to do what people want. Look at the editing requests thread. Most of the requests in there are IGNORED. Most mods that are created are also ignored for the most part.

So what? A mod maker makes a mod because he or she WANTS TO, not because there was some "demand" from the community. Sure, some modders do it with the hopes of getting community praise, and a few succeed. Some even get jobs in the games industry by getting noticed. But those are pretty rare. Most of the time you hear about some popular idea project that starts, and there's a lot of hoopla, but they end up cancelling, quitting or just fading away with nothing really accomplished, Or it ends in grief and anger because they fight over what to do or their fans lose interest because they want it NOW and the project makers just can't get it done in a reasonable time frame. Making a mod is very difficult when you're not on a budget and a schedule and your group is just loosely connected people doing it in their spare time.

So just because some people out there WANT admin mods doesn't mean that admin mods are inevitable, nor does it mean that admin mods SHOULD be made.

And admin mods COULD be made without abusive commands. You're giving the false supposition that admin mods that are abusive are inevitable. That's just not the case, otherwise every online game with open editing would have one, and such mods would be popular in all games. Instead, only a tiny handfull of games have them. In fact, if such mods were REALLY that great, game developers would just build their games around them, rather than waiting for some 2 bit coder to put one together and release it on the internet.

They wouldn't make games anymore, they'd just make graphical chat rooms where a person could make players explode and disappear whenever he wanted to for fun. Think of the time and money they'd save by making such games! Since they don't do this, this tells me that such things are not inevitable or desirable.



I don’t think you have….this turned into a debate on the first page lol…and yes this horse has been dead for months now....

Yeah, I feel like I'm repeating myself, and I keep responding to the same excuses given over and over in defense of these abusive admin mods.

I know there are other people out there who feel as I do on this, so perhaps I can demonstrate WHY we feel this way. It's not that we're some crazy stupid people, our criticisms are valid. These mods go against everything these games stand for. They don't have to, but the makers created them that way, and for whatever reason, refuse to amend their mistakes.

They can still make good what they have made bad however, if they would just do so, I'd be much happier about the situation!

If slider would remove all the abusive commands and take Kurgan's suggestion (about not allowing any servers to use old versions) everyone would be happy.

Originally posted by Kurgan
Otherwise we might as well be moving flashing orbs around the screen and writing down our scores on a piece of paper, according to whatever rules we want to imagine.

Whoa... KICK ASS!! When does it come out? Can I pre-order? :D :D :D

Originally posted by VaSBuffy Well if you end up in abusive servers just leave and go to another until you find a good one.

You say it as if there is such a thing out there.

Out of all the JA servers I have seen in the past few days with some sort of admin mod installed, each and every one of them has some form of prepubescent social outcast getting off on slapping people around, slaying and just all around being a pompous dick. There will always be those types of people, and even if you turn to another server, or a clan's leadership, or ****, even go as far as repeatedly crashing the server with particular exploits, all they do is shrug their shoulders while they reach for their console keys for /amsleep nublar101.

Believe me slider isn't for the abusive admins not at all. If he was he wouldn't have made my server a beta test server.

BULL****

Since Jedi Academy was released, I told everyone here that I was waiting for the moment that some SOB was going to appeal to the abusive admins and release an admin mod with abusive commands in place. Sure, C1 and Hex were both finding other ways to work adminmods, but it only takes one leak/hand over of a source code to go right back to square one. Guess where that hand over came from?

I think ja+ is very good it gives so much more dimension to playing jedi academy. So much more you can do and just because ja+ can make things easier. I never forgot where i came from (jk2 1.02) JA+ never changed me. I still fight the same way, do the same things. JA+ just adds a big list of other things I can do.

Hold on, if you can listen over great distances, you might be able to pick up the distinct sound that is my extreme laughter over what you just said.

Hey, look, I can sit down! Big deal. While you're at it, can you /amsit on my mine I so carelessly placed?

Not to mention that things JA+ can do have been ripped from other mods, if not by code, then by concept.

Those abusive admins they would have been abusive even without JA+. just leave the server. When I notice another server abusing the JA+ features.. Like disabling all force. I ussualy ask: You think force is lame or something? They ussualy reply with yes.

Once again:

BULL****

rcon does not enable a user to slap, slay, freeze, sleep, etc. It only allows kicking and banning. Both which are the least abusable commands. Not to mention a smart person knows how to get around banning, but I digress...

Futhermore, rcon allows access to server commands which effect EVERYONE. The administrator may be thinking that he's going to screw a "lamer," but in reality he's screwing everyone.

Just wish you guys would stop looking at just the abusive servers but also to the non abusive servers. See what a great mod JA+ is. This mod has so much potential. Like I always say. Don't take it out on the mod or slider because hes trying his best to stop people from abusing it. Take it out on the abusive admins. Their the blame. If ja+ wouldn't excist it would have been another mod who would get the blame. BLAME THE ADMINS!

This mod is at best an IRC extension, contradicting the purpose of the game. If Slider wanted to so much as remove the abusive commands, he would have thought with his head and done the same exact thing C1 and Hex were avoiding when JA was in it's infancy. And now he suddenly has a revelation and decides to do it now that his competition is out of the way?

Movie Battles II is a great mod. ForceMod is a great mod. ProMod was a great mod. Masters of the Force, when it was still in it's concepts and testing, could have been a great mod. JA+ is nothing more than a piece of rubbish that turns the game into something it isn't. A virtual chat room. when the game ORIGINALLY came out. He could have come here during the final days of Jedi Knight II to see what ****ed it up for all of us, but instead he turned his head and didn't give a damn. Look and see where Jedi Academy is now. It is a joke amongst FPS games.

If I had that chance to go back in time to fix something, I'd head back to the 1.03 days, find Dest and beat the living crap out of him until he tells me that he won't release the JediMod source code. That is where things went wrong.

Prior to JediMod++ and JA+, admins had no opportunities to be abusive. However, all it took was two people to give them the tools to abuse to their whims. Both the admins and the creators are to blame.

Face it, guys, this game is nothing more than a piece of **** now. What was originally intended to be an FPS game has been converted into an RPG by the freakin' sore loser honor noobs. I don't know about you, but I've left the game long ago, occasionally coming back only after every few months just to visit some old friends and have a few good frags here and there.

BTW, for you RPG loving people out there, go play Neverwinter Nights. Leave JA and let it be the FPS game it was meant to be in the first place...

In Slider's defense, he did not physically steal the source code from my jk2 mod. Well, I don't think so unless he hacked my machine. I believe it was BOFH who donated his pipe dream of winning the mod wars to Slider along with the poorly coded source. There was also a leak at the Jedi Academy (http://www.thejediacademy.net) for those of you who don't know that, who was a traffiker of information to Slider and my upcoming ideas. I suppose that was my fault for sharing them at the time.

Slider does not yet realize his mistake as I did in jk2 where chasing the fame WAS the "cancer" to the game and I wish I could have realized that sooner. (early jk2 days) I believe things would be somewhat better than they are now. We tried to start fresh with a new game and it was only a matter of days until the admin abuse mod was introduced.

Now only if he mimmicked my jk3 mod...

c1 out!!!

You guys are being a little too hard on Slider. I being a competitive player that love nothing more than a huge fragfest of a ctf match can say that Slider has taken a great step forward with his alternate dimension feature.

Originally posted by zERoCooL2479
In Slider's defense, he did not physically steal the source code from my jk2 mod. Well, I don't think so unless he hacked my machine. I believe it was BOFH who donated his pipe dream of winning the mod wars to Slider along with the poorly coded source. There was also a leak at the Jedi Academy (http://www.thejediacademy.net) for those of you who don't know that, who was a traffiker of information to Slider and my upcoming ideas. I suppose that was my fault for sharing them at the time.



lol choosen one....
poor attempt to say again i stole code or used other code to make JA+

all the code i used in JA+ is described in the readme....
BOFH , is not described....
I made JA+ starting from the raven SDK...

i even don'"t know what is BOFH until razorace told me a few weeks ago...

why do you think i stole code or used code without telling it?

HA i know, you wonder how i can code so quickly stable and steady things?

or perhaps you are jealous so you find excuses to try to say to all the people you know wrong things about me?

CHoosen one this is not my mod which were hacked many times just after a few month after the moment where you released the first version of your JK2 academy mod.....
SO don't compare JA+ to your JKA academy mod or bofh which were a crappy and backdoored mod.....

often people tend to blame other for things which only the blamers are guiltly.

i am tired of hearing you choosen one almost when you accuse me of stealing or using other people code without giving credits.

i

JKA is over. Dead. Unsalvageable. If you are a real player and yearn for the old days there is only one thing you can do. Reinstall JK2 and play basejk. Problem solved. Slider, your mod sucks. You changed the gameplay in ridiculous and absurd ways that have made the game basically unplayable. I won't repeat what has been said over and over about your newbish tweaks like 0 force regen, grapple hooks and jetpacks, protect + absorb at the same time, etc. baseJK2 is perfect.

JKA is over. Dead. Unsalvageable

always with you ethernal jka is dead!!!
do you have nothink more clever to say?

you advice to play on JK2 while there are less servers than in JKA?
what is the more dead game then?

lol
pathetic

Originally posted by Slider744
lol choosen one....
poor attempt to say again i stole code or used other code to make JA+

all the code i used in JA+ is described in the readme....
BOFH , is not described....
I made JA+ starting from the raven SDK...

i even don'"t know what is BOFH until razorace told me a few weeks ago...

why do you think i stole code or used code without telling it?

HA i know, you wonder how i can code so quickly stable and steady things?

or perhaps you are jealous so you find excuses to try to say to all the people you know wrong things about me?

CHoosen one this is not my mod which were hacked many times just after a few month after the moment where you released the first version of your JK2 academy mod.....
SO don't compare JA+ to your JKA academy mod or bofh which were a crappy and backdoored mod.....

often people tend to blame other for things which only the blamers are guiltly.

i am tired of hearing you choosen one almost when you accuse me of stealing or using other people code without giving credits.

i

A few things I need to correct you on.

1) It's chosen not "choosen".

2) Someone giving code to another is not stealing, so I'm not saying you stole the code. BTW, your code is / was not stable. I know a lot of friends that had machines running it and all kinds of screw-ups were happening. I can almost bet that your client commands are like ten pages of if / else blocks.:p

Also, calling your mod JA+ like BOFH's "jediplus" kinda made it obvious.

I believe BOFH said "I gave the code to a friend so I don't care anymore" after his third release of OmniAdmin Mod. If you say you didn't know BOFH until recent, then you probably knew him under a different alias.

3) JA Mod didn't have backdoors in it, silly. Only the rumored OmniMod had those. There were no secrets in there so don't imply that.

I somewhat agree with the people that say the game is dead. No I'm not jealous of you, so don't flatter yourself. Slider, just learn from this experience. When or IF a new game like this is released, and the source is also released, do not place admin abuse commands in there. I'm sure someone else might attempt it, but at least you will know you made the right decision.

Slider, you are a clueless, deranged and delerious newbie. By changing the standard of jka from what Raven intended with their base settings, you have made the game unplayable. There is far more competition in jk2 than jka. JKa is just a newbie paradise.

Anyone interested in anything other than ffa? Team ffa, siege, ctf... those are kind of fun too.

I love CTF, it's just that there are so few CTF servers out there that don't have bots...

There is alot of competition in CTF in both jka and jk2. But honestly, you wouldn't be able to hang, and would just get frusturated and quit. Most of the people still playing ctf have been doing it for years.

Looks like mediablitz is back.

looks like chosen one is lying when he says his JK2 academy mod has not backdoors....


Chosen one can you remember when all the hackers could go on your academy JK2 mod and becoming admin just changing their names with the good char sequence ^^^^^^^^^^^^?



[B]
So,chosen one , there are 2 possibilities:
[list=1]
you coded backdoors with the handling name engine in your mod
or you are a very bad coder that don't know how to code things properly
[/list=1]


once again i don't know what is BOFH until razorace told me a few weeks ago....

JA+ is the name of the mod a friend adviced me to set for my mod because i was searching to make a mod that handle several modules but all in a configurable way so that you can set everything ON/OFF...

that is why the name he advice me to take was JA+ because this is JA witH/+ what you want your game look like

I want to make this real simple so that there is no confusion:

Basejka - Designed by Raven, trusted by ID to balance and make such games as Quake 4 which will definately be one of the largest games ever made. A highly respected game developer. Professional devs with almost a decade of game balancing under their belts.


JA+ MOD - Designed by Slider, an amature coder with no experience who has never been trusted by anyone to balance anything. A newbie in the game with no respect from the highly skilled and older members of the JK community.


So...which version do you think is going to be more balanced for competitive play?