Dear Raven,

When Jedi Outcast came out I was another enthused star wars fan in heaven. I loved the game very much and overall it was balanced between lightsabers and guns in the beginning.

woops, i goofed and hit tab enter. the rest of the post is here...


Then Raven decided to patch the game and change all the ammo requirements for certain guns and the manna requirements for certain force powers. I'm sorry guys but once a game is out and has been for a month or 2 you cannot change 90% of the gameplay and expect people to continue playing your game. I feel I represent a majority of jk2 players which are not represented on this board who want a fast paced game to come out this fall. I can understand the saber enhancements to a point, but if this game is to be played by the masses and beat out games like Counter-strike it will have to be fast. In order for the game to be fast you must revisit jk2 before the patches. Battles were quick and decisive. People weren't always looking for ammo in games. Games were relatively high scoring. The game resembled an insanely popular ctf/tdm game known as Qauke 3. Raven followed Id software's lead and created a fast paced ctf/tdm game that anyone who had played Quake 3 or one of its clones could enjoy. But, if Raven were to enhance the saber so much that it would be the weapon of choice to many gamers mainly because they want that RPG element then Raven will have failed and scared away most of the potential gamers out there. Increasing saber abilities will only slow down the game mainly because you have to be standing 2 feet away from someone to kill them. People can run away very easily. This brings me to another point. There needs to be a gun that causes an incredible amount of damage to a person like the rail gun from Quake 3. The disruptor was nice, but you had to zoom in order to use it. This made it very difficult to use. Also a suggestion would be to increase the speed of the rockets from teh rocket launcher and give it much more ammo and possibly decrease the damage a little bit.

This is all i can think of for the moment. But Raven please listen to this post because a majority of the people who played the game do not post here because of the RPG people who do. This post will get flamed i'm sure, but there are only a few hundred, maybe a thousand members to this board. Thousands who do no post here will play the game. Remember this is a minority of the people who play the game!

Here is a quote from one of my clanmates, who at the time was one of the best ctfers in the game(keep in mind this is within its first 2 months of existence).

He played until the patch which changed ammo requirements came out. And this is what he has to say: "basically jk2's problem was the push/pull factor. There was two maps where u couldnt fall off the edge, and the other 2 were a nightmare when everyone on the other team would just throw you to your death. Push/pull is way to easy to do. The only solution is to either make them weaker so it takes more than one push/pull to take someone off an edge, or simply make maps where the voids aren't such a factor. One idea that came to my mind was to each base for ctf. One would be the faster route, but there'd be a void for someone to push/pull the fc/offense into. The other way would be longer, but have no void to be thrown into. I felt that weapons weren't as important as powers, and a balance needs to be achieved in future jk games."
-pds.dynom|te
Right now he is an avid Quake 3 player mainly ctf.

What soul has just posted is absolutely true. JK2 was a very good game for the first two months. 1.03 nerfed the game completely, and when 1.04 finally got to the community, it slowly died. Please focus more on gameplay, and the guns rather then graphics and sabers. I know you are near complection, but please take suggestions and implant them into the game from the competitors point of view.

Suggestions for guns.

Both the Bryar and Blaster were perfectly balanced and perfected, so if you keep the ammo consumption the way it was in JK2, everyone would be happy.

Crossbow is perfect

I know most people loved the repeated gun when it wasn’t nerfed, so keeping the settings like 1.02 would be perfect

The Fletchette should have one direction for its shot, and not have a different direction each time you shoot it. Those balls go differen’t places randomly each time, and if it would just go the direction you aim, it would be perfect.

Possibly change the rocket launcher to the concusion from DF2, if not, boost the speed, add more ammo, and maybe a little damage as soul clearly stated.

Most guns are perfect, and I’m just putting down the guns MAINLY used for the competitive point of view.

Force
I know you guys are implementing more force powers, but for the default ones, Most people would like to see every power back in. Please take into consideration of balancing the force powers, it is a key thing to competitive play.

Mostly what soul, coming from a very well known “clan” in the jk2 competative world, said everything that would be very nice to have.

I have very high hopes for jk3, hopefully it will be the next q3 of competition. Please consider the following Raven Software.

The problem is not that they need to not focus on sabers and graphics, but moreso that if they decide to do so, they don't need to totally neglect the guns competitive side of the game. As long as that is not neglected in lieu of doing 100s of things for saber combat, it should be fine. That being said, here's my opinion:

1) Make pull cost more, or put a delay after its use, or make it have to be aimed with the crosshair, or all of the above.
I think pull is the primary thing that takes this game away from being a skilled competitive game. It's really annoying when you are trying to play, and 10 people constantly pull you to your death, doing nothing but standing there. Absorb often isn't even effective against that many "pull newbies".

2) Make people who rage take more damage than they do.
Constant raging by people makes things hella borish. When one person does it, it's bad enough...but if 3-4 are, forget about having a good time in a CTF game, unless everybody's raging. And that's just stupid. People need to be able to be "de-raged" in some way, and quicker. For example, make detonation packs or mines always kill them or blow away their rage.

All I can think of now.
-Sphinx

Actually, in the very beginning, i thought that jk sabers were bad after things got exploited, Dfa was the first thing, it was the main prob, it was fine until plyers jsut started spamming it and you could be killed when there saber is in the ground... In 1.04 i thoguht the fixed alot of bug and made the game pretty balanced comapred to 1.02 and i think i they hadn't rushed it out to meet LEC's requirments we would never have noticed. 1 patch is enoguh but 2 is a bit much since people had already adapted. twice. My advice to Raven is to finish the game to perfection before you release and not to get bossed around by LA to meet deadlines.

And make Team Energize balanced, in JK2 two players using TE constantly can get unlimited force.

I dont agree with ppl who say that "JK2 is about the saber". Its combination of saber/guns/force powers which makes it unique.

I m sure that JA will be great game if u ll manage to balance guns/force powers and also if saber wont be useless toy like in JK2 1.04 (in TDM/CTF on servers with enabled weapons).

I disagree with the saber issue. Somehow, you have to make it so a saber can compete with a gun if you are to use it. And personally i dont understand why you'd want to run around with a saber all game. It's like running around with a knife in Counter-strike or a guantlet in Quake 3. You have to physically touch someone to kill them, and you have to touch them many times. There is no real way to make the saber a ranged weapon. I used the saber in the beginning of the game's launch and about a week later i ditched it for a gun. Personally, and i believe i speak for the competative ctf/tdm part of the community, guns are faster killers and can kill from a distance. This increases the overall speed and intensity of the game and supplements to its overall joy in playing.

Perhaps the return of the concussion rifle is an idea ?

oasisfan

if anything, PLEASE fix force pull. this over used power was responsible for turning a very large amount of potential competitive jk2 players away from the game.

one of the great things about jk2 was the movement. you could get yourself going at insane speeds and do crazy high jumps.... only to be stopped DEAD in your tracks by the talentless power know as force pull.

how does one become skilled at a first person shooter? generally, you must master the the weapons (aim, prediction, etc) and the movement (dodging, jumps, etc). This is what separates the good players from the newbies. But what was the point of mastering movement in jk2? all that dodging and high speed strafe jumping only to be stopped by any random newbie who can stand still and mash the force_pull bind over and over. there is no reward for mastering the movement of jk2 and that is sad.

it is very frustrating for skilled gamers to be easily foiled over and over again by random talentless newbies. I'm sure that 99% of the players from competitive jk2 scenes (http://www.teamwarfare.com/forums/forumdisplay.asp?forumid=18) and the euros - esl/clanbase) will agree with me on this one. It is a MUST FIX. Please consider this in the development of JK3.

I Totally agree fellow oasis lover :D with FF of course

Originally posted by oasisfan
Perhaps the return of the concussion rifle is an idea ?

oasisfan

definately. replace that ****ty 2ndary repeater lob shot with the good old conc.

Yep, Still the best gun in the series i think :)

I agree with silentsoul, PeTr and Sphinx. When reading up information on JA, you hear alot about the creators focusing on the saber combat. And honestly, from what I have read, it doesn't sound like muchb is being done to it. Everyone in jk2 tried to play the game as an RPG, when it was a FPS. If saber combat was going to be focused on, and that it was final, I would reccomend adding ALOT to the saber battles. I used to be quite the saberist in my day (sadly) and all the battles seemed to be the same. Saber battles need to be ALOT more.. free. Doing some crazy high flips in the air, landing near opponent exchanging swings. That's what the experience needs to be like. Someone spectating the game should be able to go like "OOOHHH sweet move!!" after a nice kill. In jk2, after a kill, it was like, wow, never seen that done before.There was what, like 3 combos in the game and 3 different kinds of swings? Everything was so repitive.

I also like the point soul made about the balance of the saber and guns. Pro gun players and pro saber players did 1v1's often in jk2, and not once did I see a saberist win. Sabers are what makes starwars unique , and in CTF games they had no use. So why not just go play Quake or another game that specialises in gunning? CTF was great because of the fast game play, but nobody ever really used the saber too much. the most use you could get out of it was to block shots and guard yourself when making a flag run.


-Saber battles need to be alot more "free" and fast paced, and not so repetive.
-Guns/Sabers need to be more balanced in CTF Games (all types of games for that matter)
-Force powers (eg pull) need to be fixed. Like what sphinx said about being a "pull newbie". I hated that in ctf.

Ok, as a member of the greatest team to ever grace competitive jk2 I will lay down some fact and opinions of mine.


the entire push/pull argument is boring. basically what happens with push and pull is that whether or not raven meant to do it, players with superior movement are actually handicapped becuase that same movement makes them a much easier target to get pushed or pulled. im sorry but the more time i spend playing the game and learning how to move fast within the games phsyics i should not be penalized because someone just bought the game and decided to press the push button pushing me back 15 feet while the next guy he pushes is also new to the game and is walking and doesnt even get pushed back in the slightest. in my opinion push and pull should be merely a continuation of pull from dark forces 2 : jedi knight. by saying this I mean that if someone presses the button to use force pull then it should pull my weapon assuming i do not have absorb on. as for push i am thinking that it should merely push back a weapon shot or if you are say within 3-5 feet of an enemy then it can push them off of their feet. it really pained my team to the point that at times this game was too frustrating to play because teams we should be beating 150 - 0 we were only beating 50 - 0 becuase our superior movement was hampered by the push/pull phsyics of the game.


second note, guns are good - all energy weapons arent. the flak gun oops i mean golan in my opinion was a bad choice. i understand that you wanted to mix up q3 and unreal weapons but sometimes it just doesnt work. there were really 2 worthwhile weapons in the game because of how quickly with good aim you could dispatch an opponent, with those being golan and heavy repeater. then you make them require more ammo thereby limiting the shots one can make without running for more ammo. im sure others will say the other weapons were good too and im not saying they werent i for one thought the stormtrooper rifle and bowcaster were really good incarnations from the original jedi knight. im not saying just copy the q3 weapon set but lets be honest for a fps the quake weapons are very tried and true. i would love to see the concussion rifle and rockets from jedi knight make a return, without taking a serious hit to speed or damage either. theres nothing more boring than being able to out RUN a rocket fired at me. let me know if anyone needs further explanation on this area.


lastly i do not know what happened with the butchering of the q3 engine (alas i kid i kid) but one thing i did not like was the relative unsmooth feeling jk2 offered. by saying this i mean that i could jump somewhere and stick to walls rather than sliding off of them. i didnt like making force jump the jump button also you have no clue how much mana i lost becuase no matter how long i paused in between jumps in my superfast strafejumping madness i would get charged for force jumping. its hard to explain but i could hit corners in jk2 and just warp into abyss instead of getting up the ledge.


i will undoubtably add more later



dsbr-logan
#darksaber on irc.enterthegame.com
Dark Saber - the uncontested gods of jk2

I totally agree with matt. In the beginning of the game, the first 2 months, nobody knew the power of the push/pull and the game was great for it. Once all the force powers were changed around after the patches people started to rely too heavily on the team energizing, pushing, and pulling. CTF is an insane challenge with the over emphasis on these powers. Raven i hope to god your reading this. If you guys do not take into consideration teh ideas said in this post the game may make money but it wont have replayability. Nobody will play it in the long run. Look at jk2 online competitive play is totally and completely dead. The game's concepts are great, they make for excellent CTF/TDM play, however the push/pull and ammo/force changes you made were waht killed the game.

All of the above.!!!

Ok, as a member of the greatest team to ever grace competitive jk2 .
Heh, maybe in jk but not quite in jk2 imo.
Though saeriously, The push pull crap was well out of order, thast's why i think ledge grab sohuld be implemented, to stop the crazy crap in CTF, and the pull backstab stuff :rolleyes:
Raven should sort this out before the game is released.
Also, i think that the Conc should be put back in as it was seriously missed in jk2 (the G thing was a bad replacement imo)

Originally posted by DSbrLogan
basically what happens with push and pull is that whether or not raven meant to do it, players with superior movement are actually handicapped becuase that same movement makes them a much easier target to get pushed or pulled. im sorry but the more time i spend playing the game and learning how to move fast within the games phsyics i should not be penalized because someone just bought the game and decided to press the push button pushing me back 15 feet while the next guy he pushes is also new to the game and is walking and doesnt even get pushed back in the slightest.

quick followup


you cannot balance sabers and guns in a ctf environment. theres no point you shouldnt penalize regular competitive players that dont care about the saber unless in an enclosed space with an opponent, just because some saber fanatics believe that EVERYTHING SHOULD BE EQUAL OR YOU GUNNERS CAN GO PLAY QUAKE. you would not believe how many times i was told to go play quake in regular public servers because i didnt choose to play with a saber. HELLO I AM A GUNNER I CAN STILL ENJOY THE GAMEPLAY OFFERED BY SUPER MAGIC ABILITIES KNOWN AS FORCE POWERS. that whole argument about "if you like guns go play q3" is so utterly stupid considering i too like playing jedi knight.

and those that claim saber is too under powered compared to the guns, it SHOULD be. i shouldnt be killed just because someone decides that since he cannot stop me with skill that he will simply script up some saber moves and blindly hack away with it killing me in 1 or 2 hits. personally theres no point for a saber in weapons ctf save for deflecting small energy shots. i would rather see a beefier "stun gun" that carries the same damage as the gauntlet in q3. in jk2 it was ridiculously weak


what i would suggest is just a simple "tournament mod" like OSP for q3 or TTM for ut2k3. allowing saberists to enjoy their sabers only combat on their own servers with very easy to set up server configs. hopefully constructed by raven so that the entire community can accept it from the beginning instead of further splintering every competitive scene with 350902 different mods.

Originally posted by DSbrLogan
theres nothing more boring than being able to out RUN a rocket fired at me.

Another thing raven should consider is add some life to 1v1. In quake 3, alot of people were into 1v1. It also had some of the biggest tournaments. Which advertises companys, which makes raven money ;).

Anyways, 1v1, JK had THEE BEST 1v1 IMO. The fast paced skill of Oasis FF blew any game away. With grade 2 drawings for gfx, the game still dominated every FPS game out there.

Consider the following:

Make fast paced 1v1 for JA
Make a variety of maps with different trick jumps etc. (Oaisis FF and BGJ did get a little boring after many years you know! ;) ).
Add the concusion rifle.
Boost speed to go insanley fast, also with strafe jumping, it really could ad a unique INSANLEY fast style of gameplay.
Add a SURGE, not a BOOST, a surge would implement and very new unique style for CTF and 1v1 if added in JA.

What people would like to see for CTF was basically narrowed down in all of the above comments.

and those that claim saber is too under powered compared to the guns, it SHOULD be. i shouldnt be killed just because someone decides that since he cannot stop me with skill that he will simply script up some saber moves and blindly hack away with it killing me in 1 or 2 hits. personally theres no point for a saber in weapons ctf save for deflecting small energy shots. i would rather see a beefier "stun gun" that carries the same damage as the gauntlet in q3. in jk2 it was ridiculously weak
I mostly agree with this, but there was the same argument when jk2 was due to ocme out, they really want to balance everything out rather than making 2 dif camps liek in jk and jk2. Though, I don'ty believe the game should be like the movies but i think they should pay attention, it deflects energy and melts small bullets. A rocket SHOULD kill a jedi, just because he has a saber doesn't make him important, If it was balanced between how the sbaers and guns could contend with each other it would be pretty spiffy.

and yes agen_terminator whoever you are im sure you have never heard of the great feats of clan darksaber in the arts of jedi knight two. maybe you should visit our page and take a look at the record.


http://www.gorilla2.net/dsbr)


maybe the fact that before dsbr retired its original steady lineup we were undefeated since the release of the game, with the only loss in the revival of dsbr coming when none of the starters were around for matchtime and even after being told to reschedule one of the pathetic bench players so eager to prove he was as good as anyone else on the team forced other benched players to play. the dsbr starting lineup is undefeated in well over 40 games. we have not always kept track of our wins.


but now that you mention it yes dsbr was also the unstoppable god of dark forces two : jedi knight.


and undoubtably if there are somewhat decent guns in jedi knight : jedi academy and we have any fun playing it we will be the unstoppable gods of that game also.

good day to you random newbie that felt the need to reply to that one minor bit of text in a rather huge post by myself.


dsbr-logan
#darksaber on irc.enterthegame.com
Dark Saber - Unstoppable gods of jk1/jk2 making pathetic newbies cry and throw tantrums since '98, making down syndrome followers stutter out incoherent ramblings since '02

nice post logan, some good points.


Hopefully Raven will listen, and not make the same mistakes.

I know most of the people that post here prefer the saber aspect of the game. But CTF is easily the part of jk2 that required the most skill. I think alot of the "saberists" here, are some that tried to play the game as an RPG (no offence, but it's just not how the game was ment to be played). So it's good to hear from the competive half of jk2.

Yea, I'll have to agree with the rest of the TWL guys here.

1)Pull is really overused and it's effects negate the point of absorb. Pulling can be done continuously and when two defenders couple it with team energize, a flag carrier can be pulled indefinitely and completely stopped in his tracks and easily killed.

2)Energize is too easily spammed. Please if this force makes another appearance put a timer on it or make it so that the exact amount of force donated is the amount received and you dont receive quirky bonuses that can be exploited to fully regenerate the force pool.

3)Rage should not make you invulnerable. If this force reappears the speed and weapon bonuses are quite fine, but it shouldnt take 8 direct hits with both golan balls to kill a rager when it takes only 1-2 on a normal person and 4 on a person using protect.

4)If protect reappears please make it so that it costs a certain amount of force and does not require a force drain. That kind of defeats the purpose of protect doesnt it? I mean if you leave it on for more than 20 seconds you do not have enough force left to absorb any damage

5)I agree with petr who talked about the random factor of the golan. I hated that i would be on my target and fire only to miss by just a little bit.

6)Increase saber damage and uphold that area of gameplay, but PLEASE dont nerf our aspect of gaming (full force CTF) in favor of others. We never complain about them and we never whine about "that person dfa'ed me so i want the dfa nerfed" so next time if you decide to make a patch please dont influence another aspect of gaming (ctf) just because duelists complain when they cant get out of the way.

7)I also very much so agree with Logan on the aspect of sticking to walls. I hated that I would be strafing along full speed and then accidentally bump a wall and stick to it thus completely reducing my velocity to zero (and even moving me backwards a bit).

8)Please if the rocket launcher reappears, do something about the rocket exploit (where you get a partial circle with secondary switch to saber switch back to rocket and fire primary)

9)Please make more and bigger open maps where we can jump around and enjoy playing. So many maps are incredibly small or cramped that they are very hard to enjoy. Also if you make another smaller type map like CTF_Imperial please never again put a large shield booster in the base. This makes the game take FOREVER as there would be at times 30 minute + stalemates

10) Also please in the next installment find some way to make the force powers heal/drain/lightning somehow useful. For example make heal a certain force requirement (about the same as mindtrick) that will slowly regenerate health over a period of 20 seconds. that way a capper could turn it on before he entered an enemy base and then constantly receive health as he's being chased away. Instead of push or pull i think drain should be the only force power that can somewhat penetrate absorb. what i mean by this is if an enemy flag carrier comes to your base and you have drain, and he has absorb on you can drain him and drain for 1/3 the amount that you would normally be able to drain for. So if I Drained an opponent of mine using my entire force bar he would lose 1/3 of his. This way Drain could be used strategically to weaken flag carriers and would be somewhat useful. Lightning I suggest be replaced with Destruct so that it can be used somewhat as a weapon but is a very slow moving orb but causes mass damage that bypasses absorb when it hits (or maybe absorb can absorb all the force used but not the damage?).

11) Also if it's possible i would love to see a point system that takes into account assisting a flag carrier. It would be a system that detects if you shot or used force on an enemy within a certain proximity of the flag carrier or if you used some force power directly on the carrier. Not that points are overly important but this bonus would be nice.

12) A system that showed the percent of hits you have made with each weapon would also be nice. Although this is completely unneccessary it would be a neat addition.

In conclusion I really loved JK2 as it was my first FPS. This game has completely changed my perspective about online gaming and although i didnt agree with the constant patches and changes i still stuck with the game because it was unique in that it had force powers which added a whole new strategic element to playing instead of simply running around with a gun. I hope that you (Raven) improves saber combat as much as possible, but i also implore you not to neglect us the competitive aspect of the community. We are the ones who promote the improvement of newer players and we are the ones who provide new and interesting tactics that are later emulated by the rest of the population. Without the competitive support of a game it will never grow beyond it's infant stages so i ask you to include us when you think about the game so that Jedi Acadamy can reach its full potential and be a landmark in gaming for years to come.

BF_Aoshi

Of Course i have heard of DSBR :mad:
I'm not saying that yous are unsuccessful, You were always da best of da best but (Phoenix was my fav :), he still there?) they pretty much sorta failed to make an impact on people compared to jk1, WD and BSB were always inferior and everyone kenw it - Everyone had heard of Dsbr but msot people in jk2 had never heard of any of these clans and therefore that might mean - not a big impact. I'm quite sure was ASC was more popular yet unsuccessful compared to dsbr. Happy?

Agreed. I bought JK (ie DF2) shortly after it was released but neglected the multiplayer aspect until about 6 months before JK2 was released. Up until then I had played occasionally, a few role-playing games (Drazen, Barons Hed etc) a bit of Spork craziness, but generally not much experience of JK multiplayer (or any multiplayer for that matter). Then I was challenged for a game by an experienced player, I thought "what the heck" and gave it a go, needless to say I was completely owned and it was frustrating to say the least. But the first thing I said after the game was: "teach me how the heck to do all that". Shortly after I realized just how incredible multiplayer JK was. The odd thing was, the most enjoyable (and addictive) part was the gunning. Soaring through the air picking people off with the Concussion Rifle using force seeing to see people moments before they emerged from round a corner. pure class.

Obviously there were issues, the bug of "super-gripping" and the ease of which it was to cheat meant you could never really be sure if the games were being played on fair terms, yet the game still remained addictive. Because despite balance issues, there was nothing like the pull/push of JK2 to make the game completely frustrating for even the best players.

So when I heard of JK2 I wanted more of the same, but enhanced, both graphically and in terms of game balance.

JK2 for the first couple of months was close to delivering, push/pull were a novelty at that time and nobody had really mastered kicking. Times were good, but then (and I don't know if this is directly related to the patches) people starting relying on "cheap" and boring methods of winning the games. It was no longer about lightening reflexes, skill, timing or accuracy...

CTF suffered mostly I believe, pull/push became an easy way for beginners to beat even the best, every strategy which was adopted by the competitive community to counteract this annoyance were quickly shouted about on just about every JK2 forum, aka the endless "selfkilling is so lame" threads.

Good gunners had to put up with clans of beginners exploited the kick-vote feature to take over public servers and kick anyone who they deemed "dishonourable".

Now, like all of the above members of the competitive community, i'm awaiting Jedi Academy with anticipation but also caution. So far the game sounds interesting to say the least, but so many of the features mentioned could easily become the source of numerous exploits and gaming agrivations. Raven, please don't neglect gunners in Jedi Academy, we've all but stopped playing JK2 because we were neglected there.

At the very least give the state of push/pull and dark rage some serious consideration, CTF should be about teamwork just as much as speed (in my opinion).

Yep, I still think it was a bad idea to take out the map (makes force seeing useless)

Originally posted by Aoshi




7)I also very much so agree with Logan on the aspect of sticking to walls. I hated that I would be strafing along full speed and then accidentally bump a wall and stick to it thus completely reducing my velocity to zero (and even moving me backwards a bit).

8)Please if the rocket launcher reappears, do something about the rocket exploit (where you get a partial circle with secondary switch to saber switch back to rocket and fire primary)

9)Please make more and bigger open maps where we can jump around and enjoy playing. So many maps are incredibly small or cramped that they are very hard to enjoy. Also if you make another smaller type map like CTF_Imperial please never again put a large shield booster in the base. This makes the game take FOREVER as there would be at times 30 minute + stalemates





7 Totally fix that wall glitch, it really was a pain.

8 That was another big pain, someone just locking down a person, and firing the same rate as primary with no aim? That glitch really bothered me alot.

9 TOTALLY take everything in that paragraph into consideration. Have the center vest/armor in the middle, and add smaller shields scattered around and in the best. (not to much though)

actually tormentor newbie dsbr rarely played jk2 on the zone. i must assume that you think the zone is the center of the universe for jk2 considering your level of obvious newbieness. truth be told that considering the client/server nature of the quake three engine playing on one persons host is one of the least intelligent ways to play jk2 i can imagine, one even less intelligent being playing dsbr with all its starters playing. instead of the zone the actual good ( i say good becuase they had some idea of what was going on, if you were to compare them to dsbr then you couldnt call them good ) players instead used such programs as gamespy3d and allseeingeye to search for games. this allowed people to play on real servers with close to equal ping.


you can go back to the saber herd and ignore this thread now tormentor

I agree with a lot of what has been said in this thread. I hope Raven takes into consideration the needs of the competitive/gunning players when they make this game.

As far as weapons go, most of them are good already. I especially like the disruptor and the Bryar and hope they are not changed in the next game. The weapons that I would suggest changing significantly or getting rid of are the stun baton (worthless), the Golan (doesn't really feel like a DF series gun, and can be annoyingly spammable), and the missile launcher (the concussion rifle and the rail detonator in JK were both much better, I thought). Maybe bring back the concussion rifle in some form. Also, the lightsaber definitely needs to be more powerful, but that does not mean that people who foolishly insist on using only the saber in all-weapons games should be able to rack up as many kills as skilled gunners.

For Force powers, I think a good solution to the push/pull madness is making it so you have to target someone with your crosshair to affect him. And something should be done to Rage to make it less annoying.

:rolleyes:
Logan, I only played JK2 on the zone once..... very first day.
Also i've been very loyal to ASE, been using it since it was first public cause of the great pings and flag images (so you don't go on a cs server with a bunch of germans)
And i spent most of my time playing jk2 on Hermes then going (got slagged because of the way i play :)), you can ask any swampie about that, i only used the zone for jk1. Especially with all this passport crap that's flooded it, it's only good for chess now :rolleyes: The zone is no way to play jk2 and suggesting that i didn't know this is just a cheap attempt at insulting me.

Yeh, and my name is terminator :p

Disruptor damage should be increased.

also, tormentor != terminator

Originally posted by DSbrLogan
actually tormentor newbie dsbr rarely played jk2 on the zone. i must assume that you think the zone is the center of the universe for jk2 considering your level of obvious newbieness. truth be told that considering the client/server nature of the quake three engine playing on one persons host is one of the least intelligent ways to play jk2 i can imagine, one even less intelligent being playing dsbr with all its starters playing. instead of the zone the actual good ( i say good becuase they had some idea of what was going on, if you were to compare them to dsbr then you couldnt call them good ) players instead used such programs as gamespy3d and allseeingeye to search for games. this allowed people to play on real servers with close to equal ping.


you can go back to the saber herd and ignore this thread now tormentor

Keep the flames down please. There is no reason to be condescending like that and telling someone to leave a thread.

terminator are you a euro or from some other foreign to the usa country?



also id like to be able to pick up guns for ammo in the stock game and not require a mod to change that. you have no clue how it was pointless trying to control areas when you cant even pick up a spawned weapon to keep the enemy from picking it up.

Yep, Scotland.
And i also thoguht the not being able to pick up guns as ammo was a pretty hasty decision.

ah no wonder then you dont have any point of reference. supposedly "pg" was the best european clan to play jk2. well one of our members "matt" defeated "pg.retry" really badly in a euro server. so while matt had 200+ ms lag compared to retry's 50 matt still easily dominated him.


dsbr > all

I'm sure everybody is enthusiastically enthralled by "Darksaber success", but it is not, after all, the point of this thread. Damn dude..Please go flame on TWL...not in this thread.
-Sphinx

Of course pg would get beat, Dsbr are far superior and i'm no fan of pg. Anyway time to get back on topic.

I just hope this game doesnt turn out to be a saber rpg game, its true that its funny in the beginning but after that its just boring.
Take a look at some of the vids that were made.
Im not going to write what i think bout all the force powers, but indeed something should be done with force push/pull.
The game became a force power whoring all the way, rage whoring, push/pull, auto team energize whoring, etc etc
And in my opinion, one of the most important things for the multiplayer topic - We need more than 4 maps, in jk2 case only 3 maps were playable cause almost everyone hated the imperial one. If nothing is done with the force push/pull at least make less pits in the maps, but more maps.
Also and since its a q3 engine, do u know how boring it is to make a vid without the possibility to do a fast forward/rewind while seeing the demos so we can extract a few secs of a demo.
We all know its star wars, sabers and force powers existence is a requirement but changes need to be done so we can have some skill in the game.
Finally i ll add that i agree with almost every post above mine (matt, aoshi, petr, det, logan) , forgetting about the flame posts, which should be deleted to make this thread a little bit more serious.
edit: All the weapons should stay, all but the impregnator one, forgot the name...

As the point of this thread is to suggest the ideas of the competitive community to Ravensoft in the hopes of improving on the predecessor JK2, I would like to request that all flames and nonrelated replies to be deleted so that our ideas can be taken more seriously.

Other than that, I agree on points made by Aoshi, a bar where u can see how much % u have hit would make people maybe practice their aim more. Hopefully at least.

Again, radio messages plus a personlocator would be very very nice and make the ctf game more decent.

Oasisfan

Yea... it'd probably be better that on the off chance Raven actually checks this thread they'll find constructive ideas instead of pointless flames.

It would be useful if the players locations could also be a variable that could be used in speech binds (I think xmod may have featured this). So players can easily announce to their team where they are.

Originally posted by P4ulo
Also and since its a q3 engine, do u know how boring it is to make a vid without the possibility to do a fast forward/rewind while seeing the demos so we can extract a few secs of a demo.


yes this is also a MUST FIX. the q3 engine allows us to view the console while watching a demo and type commands in as the demo plays. it also allows for us to press f1 to f12 so we can bind commands to those keys to use during demo playback. This makes editing movies a hell of a lot more easier.

in jk2 if you press any key at all.. the demo stops. we can't even bring down the ****ing console. also pls remove the stupid "shift" + "~" combo to bring down console and put it back to just "~" like in q3.

If nothing else, the demo player needs to at least be able to pause, rewind, and fast forward.
-Sphinx

I agree, if raven wants to take consideration into implementing any of our ideas, flaming must be down, and should be deleted immediatly.

High hopes for raven. What has been in development so far looks awesome, and I know it will kick ass!

How about this, so Raven will take our ideas seriously, I'll take all the good/correct points, research the threads, compile and edit the points. Afterwards I'll post it up as a gameplay specifications document (or in other words what should be done about different areas of gameplay; gametypes, weaponry, etc...), then get some feedback from you all for any points missed out/points which should be changed and edit accordingly. Only serious comments please. Does this sound reasonable or acceptable? Will Raven even take these points into account being so far into the development of the game?

Personally, I highly doubt we can change what Raven is doing this far into the game. I mean, they've got a lot of it down, and may not be able to go back and do some of the things we want.

*shrugs* :)

Originally posted by Jedi220
Personally, I highly doubt we can change what Raven is doing this far into the game. I mean, they've got a lot of it down, and may not be able to go back and do some of the things we want.

*shrugs* :)

We want vs Should have. Otherwise more patches will come having to do the same thing, just later on. Perhaps Raven should think about letting certain groups for testing prior release (Gaming teams/Editing teams)? ; ) Unless Lec is against that then I suppose there's nothing that can be done except wait.