obi,

Your first post backed up with scripture what you had previously stated. Incidently, I was a Christian for a long time so my decision to no longer be one is not a result of misinformation.

However, neither post addressed the issue I brought up, which is that God cannot both have unconditional love for all mankind and also place a condition (i.e. accepting his son) on salvation.

If he loves everyone unconditionally, he'd send you to heaven regardless of whether or not you believe in him.

Ive never seen a group of more fearful atheists, all who argue with every religious person who comes in, fear is the first step to believing.

Congradulations!

Oh ya and i dont think youll be sent to hell just because you dont believe, but then again that is your fear talking.

Originally posted by CagedCrado
fear is the first step to believing.

Very true. Good point, and especially applicable to religion.

Which is why I'm not afraid of what goes on in your head.

When I die, I die. When you die, you'll go to heaven.

We're all happy now, ok? It's all in the mind.

Originally posted by C'jais
Guys, the idea is that if you had followed Skinwalker's rhetoric and arguments in those debates about religion, you'd know that there's zip chance of him turning 180 degrees just like that on the spot.

Would you believe Shadowtemplar if he told you that he had lost faith in science, all of a sudden?

Or me, if I admitted that evolution was just a hoax?

Not going to happen any day soon.

Ever read the story of Saul? That was a powerful example of how this could have happened.

Originally posted by Aru-Wen
However, neither post addressed the issue I brought up, which is that God cannot both have unconditional love for all mankind and also place a condition (i.e. accepting his son) on salvation.

If he loves everyone unconditionally, he'd send you to heaven regardless of whether or not you believe in him.

God and his Son are one being, just in different forms. So we are not loving one conditionally.

Originally posted by obi-wan13
You're absolutely right, Aru-Wen. God is the head hancho, and does have the final say. He has already done so in his scriptures.


John 3:16


For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth shall not parish, but have ever lasting life.
well according to that you dont have to except him as your saviour but if you believe in him/ his existence, then you are not parishable.but thats just my interpretation. also what bibles do ya'll follow? if it's king james then woah you need to check queen annes or .... this other one that i have somewhere ill update this soon when i find the name. i say woah because the king james was changed severely by king james to place the ruler's of the kingdom in more power and many other things. lots of the stories were heavily edited too. also why is incest so despised yet the only possible way for the creation story to work is by incest? (I don't agree with incest but still just pointing some stuff out)

Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
Ever read the story of Saul? That was a powerful example of how this could have happened.

I remember I've read about it, but I've forgot what it was about.

Plotline?

God and his Son are one being, just in different forms. So we are not loving one conditionally.

Not quite.

There's a condition on this love - you have to believe in his son, or, a specific form of him. The Jews don't do this, so they're screwed.

Quite the paradox.

Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
Ever read the story of Saul? That was a powerful example of how this could have happened.
I'm guessing you read king james? anyways in the unedited bible/ queen annes bible, saul turns to paul after a year of thinking on his views and opinions and eventually decides to accept christ as his "saviour" and spends the rest of his life preaching the "gospel" of christ. well in the KJ version its the same but he instantly becomes christian. well according to ya'll religion is a serious matter therefore it had to take him longer than a split second to decide his religious pursuits. so either religion is no big deal, or at least not to paul, or the bible has got a few flaws (which it has many)

All that stuff is to scare you into believing, i believe in god but i also believe that God cannot be so cruel to damn people to hell for something like that, because hell is a horrible place, i believe in purgatory.

Originally posted by obi-wan13
[B]What about the muslims? What do they have to do with this?

Well, last I checked, they read the Koran, which is kinda like the Bible, as it just adds to existing texts. The Koran has the Old Testament(Jewish Holy Book), Bible(Christians), and the Koran(Muslim). Soooooooooooo, are they condemned because they believe MUHAMMED is the last messiah and NOT Christ?

Mohamed was a prophet and muslims do not believe in the christian bible, just some parts and that jesus was also a prophet, same with the jews.

I agree with cagedcrado. except i'm not sure about all that being put in the bible just to scare people. I actually have no oppinion on that, I mean, I don't see why they'd put a lie in the bible but i also don't see why God would send a good person to damnation just for not having faith or losing their faith or whatever the case may be.

Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
God and his Son are one being, just in different forms. So we are not loving one conditionally.
As C'jais pointed out, that's not exactly true. That depends on what branch of Christianity you believe in. There was a big debate about whether or not Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit (often referred to as the Trinity) are one collective being or 3 separate ones. Those who believe they are separate believe Jesus was human, not divine (this means they can not be one being) nor his son.

Originally posted by C'jais
There's a condition on this love - you have to believe in his son, or, a specific form of him. The Jews don't do this, so they're screwed.

Quite the paradox.
Exactly what I was trying to point out. Exactly.

I actually kinda have a theory on the whole Muhammed and Jesus thing. You all will probably think it's dumb but it's just a thought... Maybe they're the same:confused: because the stories of the bible and koran have been taught for thousands of years and we all know how stories and things like that can get mixed up and confused so maybe somewhere along the line the story was told wrong and it got some people confused:confused: lol i know it sounds dumb but it's just a thought. maybe when christians and muslims pray, they're praying to the same God and they just don't know it:D lol I can only imagine what everyone is thinking right now. you're probably sitting there like :rolleyes: hehe, sorry:lol:

umm, we do all pray to the same god.... I am kind of into the hindu thing where every religion is for the same purpose but believe in different ways, also literally it is the same god, as well as the jewish faith.

oh ok, i guess now i dont feel so stupid:D :o

that dancing cow is so cute:D

Dont spam, that was an entirely uneccesary post.

Please stay on topic.

Originally posted by mememe123
I because the stories of the bible and koran have been taught for thousands of years and we all know how stories and things like that can get mixed up and confused so maybe somewhere along the line the story was told wrong and it got some people confused:confused: lol i know it sounds dumb but it's just a thought. maybe when christians and muslims pray, they're praying to the same God and they just don't know it:D lol I can only imagine what everyone is thinking right now. you're probably sitting there like :rolleyes: hehe, sorry:lol:


Actually I think Islam started around 622 ad on the Christian calendar. The Jews came, then some spun off and became Christians, and later Mohamed sat in the cave and Voila! Islam!

But you are correct sir, they all worship the same God. Sad to think Christians Jews and Muslims all praying to God for him to be on "their" side. "

Originally posted by CagedCrado
Dont spam, that was an entirely uneccesary post.

Please stay on topic.

The topic was April Fools.... it's now April 4th.

What's done is done. To all those who got a laugh out of the humor of the joke (which was intended), it gladdens my heart to know I can make someone laugh in times as serious as these.

To all those that were offended, embarassed, hurt or otherwise irritated, please understand that I would never intentionally use another's beliefs as a way to harm them. I obviously didn't think anyone would be more than a bit bothered by an April Fool's joke that used religion as it's vehicle. I was wrong. I've learned. I expected that those that I debated against about evolution/creation would be the last ones to believe the scam.

I CERTAINLY didn't intend to create Yet Another "Religion Debate Thread." So I have two more things to say:

1) What's needed is a dumb joke. One that is so dumb, that it will nag you for days. You'll think of it and smile. Not only that, but a dumb joke gets funnier with time. But in case you are offended by dumb jokes, I'll use the Spoiler. If you pm me saying you were offended, it's your fault not mine.[/disclaimer]

Two cannibals were sitting around eating a clown. One lifted his head and looked at the other while making a face. He asked, "does this taste funny to you?"

2) Cjais... Please CLOSE THE THREAD! Let it end with no more debating/slandering other peoples' beliefs (too which I accept full responsibility for starting).

I don't think there was any slandering of beliefs, but the thread probably should be closed.

BTW, I like that dumb joke, and am in no way offended by it. :lol:

Actually i find that really really offensive, i was happy for you and that makes me feel bad. Not funny at all.

Well, you can't please everybody all the time.

Originally posted by Aru-Wen
Well, you can't please everybody all the time.


NO, but you can please griff some of the time. That was a funny joke.

Well, I've always disliked debating reliogion. Mainly because we will see who is right some day. Don't get me wrong, I defend my religion with all of my being, but debating its truthfulness is sort of pointless.


SkinWalker wanted C'Jais to close the thread, so...

*puts on C'Jais mask*

*closes thread*