I read an article a while back, but for the life of me I cant find it. Either way, its irrelevant, what it displayed through common and obvious evidence was the real reason Bush wants war.
Oil. The US has the largest trade debt in the world. US citizens arent buying. The US economy is swaying precariously (sp?) on the sale of oil, and its starting to tip over.
For some time, the currency of oil has been the US dollar, because its more stable than the currency of most oil exporting countries, and its common. Iraq just recently (some time last year) switched to the Euro for its sale of oil, and that has jeopardized the US economy. The Euro is steadily gaining worth (and more importantly, use) while the US dollar drops. The US government can make no changes at home that will stabilize the coming fall, so they look outward. They aim to invade Iraq, and gain control of its government so it can switch them back to US currency for oil.
Now, invading a country to steal its resources is not something that will make you popular, and especially with those (like Euro-users, perhaps) who stand to get ass-****ed if you do. What to do? Simply invent a threat. Bring them on your side so you can ass-**** them quietly while they cower in fear of some evil threat. Protect them with your big army, and fund it by stealing from them.
Behind every war there's an underlying, shady motive of profitting from it in some way, even if it's just to secure stability in the region that one's country can take advantage from.
While oil certainly plays a role, I don't think the 'mericans are only in it for that. They genuinely believe in what they do (at least Bush does), and see themselves as great presevers of freedom. I'll let them have that, as Saddam clearly is a mad, unreliable leader (though it's been hyped to huge, unreasonable heights).
I just wish they'd care to look at the consequences of USA stepping on more arab toes down there. They're going to ignite the smoldering hatred for America, and I could easily imagine retaliations on Israel or Kuwait.
My advice is to save those resources, and pour them on the solving the Palestine-Israel conflict, or perhaps to do something about Pakistan or N. Korea if you're so hell-bent on getting rid of nukes.
I'm pretty sure that everyone said we were doing it for oil the last time we fought Iraq. We really must have done a good job, considering the price of gasoline doubled in 10 years. I wonder what kind of spoils of war we're gonna get this time. A kick in the nuts maybe?
I wouldn't have any problem if the U.S. went in and occupied the mid-east for the sole purpose of oil. Maybe make another territory or something. Hell, if it was up to me, I would have done it about 30 years ago, when there was a fuel crisis. If another country has got you by the balls in a situation such as this, why not just invade and occupy, especially if you are well capable of doing so?
Sadly, I doubt the U.S. will gain anything in the form of cheaper oil. Maybe this war is solely based on political gain, as are most conflicts by the U.S. Apparently, if you do well, it is a surefire way to get re-elected.
We're going to get their weapons, their oil, and their little dog, too! eeeee hehehehehehe!
Despite what the war is about, it will happen. I hate to sound like the pessamist, but that's how I feel. No matter how many people protest, no matter what the cause, it will happen. No way to prevent it.
Originally posted by obi-wan13
We're going to get their weapons, their oil, and their little dog, too! eeeee hehehehehehe!
you stole my saying. :mad: grrrr.... oh well.
Yes as Obi has said. This war will happen, whether we want it or not. And after Iraq is taken, Bush will reveal his true intentions.
i didn't think he was smart enough to have intentions, its probably for the oil, could be wrong though, just a guess.
Originally posted by Lime-Light
I read an article a while back, but for the life of me I cant find it. Either way, its irrelevant, what it displayed through common and obvious evidence was the real reason Bush wants war.
Oil. The US has the largest trade debt in the world. US citizens arent buying. The US economy is swaying precariously (sp?) on the sale of oil, and its starting to tip over.
For some time, the currency of oil has been the US dollar, because its more stable than the currency of most oil exporting countries, and its common. Iraq just recently (some time last year) switched to the Euro for its sale of oil, and that has jeopardized the US economy. The Euro is steadily gaining worth (and more importantly, use) while the US dollar drops. The US government can make no changes at home that will stabilize the coming fall, so they look outward. They aim to invade Iraq, and gain control of its government so it can switch them back to US currency for oil.
Now, invading a country to steal its resources is not something that will make you popular, and especially with those (like Euro-users, perhaps) who stand to get ass-****ed if you do. What to do? Simply invent a threat. Bring them on your side so you can ass-**** them quietly while they cower in fear of some evil threat. Protect them with your big army, and fund it by stealing from them.
What? This war is about OIL?!?!?! That's AMAZING!!! How did you come up with this theory? [/immense sarcasm];)
Though i agree with C'jais, that it's not JUST about oil. That's an added bonus for doing something that we probably would have done anyways.
Originally posted by ET Warrior
What? This war is about OIL?!?!?! That's AMAZING!!! How did you come up with this theory? [/immense sarcasm];)
Though i agree with C'jais, that it's not JUST about oil. That's an added bonus for doing something that we probably would have done anyways.
Um, maybe you didnt read the rest of what I said, or just pretended to read it, but I know oil is the obvious reason. What I was talking about was the economic reasoning behind it, and the real reason Iraq is considered a "threat". And about political gains, yes I forgot to mention that even if the US falls into depression, St. Idiot Bush will be seen as a patriotic hero for squashing this "threat". But hopefuly some poeple will realize that for a recognized nation and its government to attack the US is suicide, and that no matter how nuts Saddam is, he's not stupid, just nuts.
One thing I dislike about the US is the knee-jerk reaction for war. Nobody is really going to attack us in a conventional manner, so fighting it in a conventional matter is stupid, and it makes us even more unpopular.
I think the root of this whole terror thing is hippocrisy. The terrorists hate us for war mongering and wealth, while they steal and kill poeple. The US is afriad of attack from terrorists, so they kill poeple for wealth.
What really needs to happen, as with all conflicts, is compromise. How do you compromise with lunatics and zealots? I dont know, but somebody better ****ing figure it out.
(four to go, wooooooo)
Originally posted by Lime-Light
Um, maybe you didnt read the rest of what I said, or just pretended to read it, but I know oil is the obvious reason.
Bush hasnt announced it because it would take away any reason for a war because the UN wouldnt allow it. So you ASSUME, not KNOW.
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
...you ASSUME, not KNOW.
Ok, its PROBABLE. I dont KNOW that if I eat a razor blade it'll kill me, but its PROBABLE.
Does anyone have something to say about the topic?
no comments, we already knew all of this, and it's been discussed already..........a LOT
but I know oil is the obvious reason
Yes.....so do I.......
Hey....uh...I mean, you guys are mean.
I've presented some logical evidence as to the reason for the war. You already assumed it was oil, and so when I presented some actual evidence to support that, you consider it old news. Anyone can assume or form an opinion.
Lime no offense but just because you don't get 100 replies for a topic that has actually already been discussed before doesn't make us mean.
And yes, I agree that everything you said is probably a factor. So do most of the other people who replied it seems. Only when I see something that I don't agree with or I know otherwise will I form an opinion. But why post a whole thing just rewording what you said and call i tmy opinion. I agree with your opinion.
Actually, oil was the assumption that I rejected for a long time as reason for war with Iraq. I just couldn't see how it factored in:
1) When Saddam is conquered and Iraq is "freed" from his oppression, they won't just give us the oil. We'll still have to pay for it.
2) In paying for the oil (that we already were able to, since Iraq has been exporting it to us), it is unlikely that the price will be advantageous because a) OPEC will still have say so in the price and b) a lowered price with increased production would threaten other, friendly oil-producing nations like Venezuela.
3) It's likely that aggression toward Iraq will result in Saddam sabotaging the oil fields as he did in Kuwait (it was effective... I coughed up black sh*t for weeks).
But then I read this essay (
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html), which highlights the idea that war with Iraq will prevent OPEC from continuing to move toward the Euro as an oil transaction currency rather than the dollar.
It's an interesting read. I haven't fully bought it yet, as I am still reading the essay. But I did skim it fairly well and the essay's references seem to be legitimate at first glance.
It is possible that this is a biased essay, designed to create dissention and that the references are biased as well. But is equally possible that the essay is reporting an opinion based upon the author's interpretation of what he's gleaned from his listed sources.
Either way.... I'm of the opinion that oil sucks. Can't live with it, can't live without. Not in today's consumer oriented culuture.
SkinWalker
BTW, LimeLight... this may be the story/article you referred to originally.
Follow the money...
Although completely suppressed by the U.S. media and government, the answer to the Iraq enigma is simple yet shocking
Statements like this one always make me frown slightly. But maybe it's just because I have seen too many lame creationist conspiracy hypothesises starting with that phrase.
BTW: Iran has publicly kicked out the UN weapons inspectors from their nuclear program, and all the while they admit that they have been mining and refining Uranium... Methinks the US should talk with their insane Priest-rulers before 'negotiating' with Hussein.
Have any of you heard the news about the two Taleban prisoners getting tortured to death in a prison camp during interrogations, while the guv'mint covered it up as suicide?
If true, it speaks volumes.
Originally posted by C'jais
Have any of you heard the news about the two Taleban prisoners getting tortured to death in a prison camp during interrogations, while the guv'mint covered it up as suicide?
I haven't heard of it, got a link?
If this is true, however, then the people doing the torturing are going against what America was supposed to fight for in the first place.
Originally posted by obi-wan13
I haven't heard of it, got a link?
Sorry, I read it in a Danish newspaper.
Although I could find the newspaper's website, I somehow doubt you'd be interested in reading gibberish (:
Originally posted by obi-wan13
I haven't heard of it, got a link?
If this is true, however, then the people doing the torturing are going against what America was supposed to fight for in the first place.
Try this link (
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/ISL243253?view=PrinterFriendly). There was NOTHING in the US Press that I could locate. Interesting indeed.
SkinWalker
Originally posted by SkinWalker
Try this link (
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/ISL243253?view=PrinterFriendly). There was NOTHING in the US Press that I could locate. Interesting indeed.
SkinWalker
Holy ****. I seriously thought it was just a rumour blown to epic proportions by that (dubious, I might add) newspaper.
However, they were a bit far off in their conclusions, if this was what they based the article on.
They also wrote that US interrogators use such "stress and pressure" tactics, such as not treating their wounds, subjecting them to bright light and loud noises, and making them stand up blinded for several hours (as noted in the link).
Thanks Skin.
oh i choose choice 4: bush must be smokin some varnish soaked weed.
Well regardless of all the stuff written above here is the truth of the matter. Being the history guy that I am I can recall a similar situation.
There was once this country that was defeated in a war and it was forbidden to have weapons or a military of any kind. along comes this guy and takes over. He starts building up the countries military again. All the countries around it don't want to enforce the treaty that was imposed on the country because nobody wants another terrible war. The U.S. not wanting to get involved this time tries to encourage the countries around them to do something about the treaty breaking. They don't so the upstart country starts making pease treaties with the countries around them. Saying there not going to go to war with them. At the same time invading other countries one after another. Tell they get to the countries they made treaties with a bomb them to hell....
It may sound slightly similar. Not totally because Iraq hasn't been given the opportunity, but it's Germany 1940's and Hitler is in power.
I agree with most people lets not go to war and leave Iraq alone. Let him have his anthrax, let him have his Nukes who cares as long as he doesn't bother us right. Let him kill his own people and invade other countries when he feels like it. Hell I say we pull all are troops from all the countries of the world and cut of all diplomatic funding to 3rd world starving countries. Let the rest of the world handle there own problems after all Europe could have handled Hitler without us right lol
History will never repeat itself. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
There was once this country that was defeated in a war and it was forbidden to have weapons or a military of any kind.....
...History will never repeat itself. :rolleyes:
Gosh! I don't think I've seen Saddam compared to Hitler before... since you put it that way... perhaps I was wrong about the whole situation. Perhaps the United Nations Security Council (which didn't exist in 1940) is, actually, incapable of monitoring and inspecting (which was not done in 1940 Germany).
Perhaps world pressure isn't enough to keep a lone dictator in check (Quadaffi and Castro are flukes).
Perhaps the military forces of today's nations cannot react quickly (in 1940, the jet engine did not exist).
Perhaps it would be difficult to know what's going on behind the Iraqi border (can you imagine U-2 surveillance and sat photos in 1940?).
Man, I'm glad I read your analogy! I'd have never looked at it from that perspective.....
SkinWalker
Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
It may sound slightly similar. Not totally because Iraq hasn't been given the opportunity, but it's Germany 1940's and Hitler is in power.
Hussein is no Hitler. You can't make a case on comparing him to another tyrant. While he does have the capability, he doesn't have the intent.
In fact, apart from recently, Iraq has had their state and church seperated far more the US. That he's cooperating with the fundamentalist Al queda is ridiculous - it should be obivous that they hate each other's guts from this.
Iraq has no nukes. Israel has a running nuclear program and nuclear armaments.
Washington sought to protect Israel from a resolution condemning Israel for one of its attacks on its neighbors. Since then, the United has cast its veto a total of 38 times to shield Israel from Council draft resolutions that condemned, deplored, denounced, affirmed, endorsed, called upon and urged Israel to obey the world body.
38 times, ladies and gentlemen. And USA has the guts to call France traitors.
Hell I say we pull all are troops from all the countries of the world and cut of all diplomatic funding to 3rd world starving countries.
Oh, you refer to peace keeping missions? USA does nothing of the sort compared to the rest of the UN. As witnessed in Afghanistan, the US is way more into arse-kicking, than arse-building... errr.... but you get my point, I hope.
What do you expect will happen once Hussein is out of power? He's the only leader capable of keeping the country together. There is no "Iraqi people" to speak of - only Kurds, Sunnis, Shi'ites and Saudis who all want a slice of the oil cake once this war is over. Do you expect democracy can be forced at gunpoint just like that? That there will somehow be less terrorist actions after that little incident?
Let the rest of the world handle there own problems after all Europe could have handled Hitler without us right lol
Wow, that's a good point.
If it wasn't for Europe, you wouldn't even exist today, for better or worse.
Originally posted by C'jais
If it wasn't for Europe, you wouldn't even exist today, for better or worse.
Or maybe I would be speaking Cherokee. :p
Comparing Hussany wainy to Hitler is there anybody else he is more like? He isn't like Hitler huh? Well did you forget the Gulf War or were you alive at that time ?
He invaded Kuwait for there oil supply he had a long drawn out war with Iran so after a stale mate there he invaded Kuwait to build back his losses, but that's not like Hitler invading his neighbors is it. No its not. Hitler was let alone while he went from small country to small country lol Hessian was stopped by the US and has been kept in check by us for the past decade.
Hussain is not like Hitler here ither killing his own people. Hitler just killed Jews in his own country that's ok right. Hussain killed the families of the people against him. He has used gas on his own people. What would happen here if we had used nerve gas on the protestors of the Rodney King Trial lol
Hussain even cam to power in a vary similar way to Hitler and keeps the same kind of controlled on his Country. Hitler was just more popular in Germany people thought he was the best there lol
The truth about Hitler is if you took away all the crap he did he was the most productive leader Germany had had for a long time and he really got the economy moving. Hell you can't even say that for Hussany
The truth of the matter is he has the intent he wants the capability. Hmm the terrorist and Iraq hate each other ? Have you ever heard the saying the enemy of my enemy is my friend ?
The UN doesn't have the balls to make the hard choices and never has. Europe couldn't handle Hitler they can't handle Hussain and when the hell has France not got there but kicked in war besides the time of Napoleon.
And if it wasn't for the USA. Europe would have been wiped out by Hitler and than he would have gone for the rest of the world. We would all be Nazis and Hitler's grandson would be running the show
One more thing there was jets before 1940. Germany had developed them. Hitler didn't think they would be of any use so they weren't implimited tell the end of the war as a last ditch effort. They were also close to making a Atom Bomb wonder how the world would be if they had done it 1st lol
Iraq has seperation of church and state lol. So your saying killing your own people is ok as long as you have seperation of church and state. lol
One more thing if you people don't like the US or what it does. It is a free country leave.......Go to Iraq sence you love it so much :D
Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
Hitler was just more popular in Germany people thought he was the best there lol
What's that "lol"? Why is it funny thay they supported Hitler? Its not that they were dumb or anything, they just thought he was right. If I would live in Germany at the time of Hitler it is extremely likely that I would join the rest of the gang and supported Hitler, he did his propaganda real well, and no one's immune to propaganda. And then we have the fact that people fear him too. If any of you belives that if you lived in Germany before and while WW2 you would think of Hitler as people think of him today, then you are not really truthful.
Hmm the terrorist and Iraq hate each other ? Have you ever heard the saying the enemy of my enemy is my friend ?
I've heard about it, but it's not true.
The UN doesn't have the balls to make the hard choices and never has.
If you support Bush, don't talk about others not having the balls. You know why Bush&US wants to attack Saddam? Because they're dead afraid of him. It takes real guts to not attack him.
And if it wasn't for the USA. Europe would have been wiped out by Hitler and than he would have gone for the rest of the world. We would all be Nazis and Hitler's grandson would be running the show
Don't talk BS. GB was still strong enough to last a while, and after Hitler attacked Sovjet, he was constantly being pulled back on the east front, and they would eventually have taken Berlin. And anyway, no matter how successful they would be, a nazi empire would never last more than a few years.
One more thing if you people don't like the US or what it does. It is a free country leave.......Go to Iraq sence you love it so much
Thanks, but no thanks, I prefer it up here in Norway.
Oh man... please drop the Hitler-analogy already.
It means nothing.
>>>
Hitler's middle name is Habib just like Saddam's!!
They both prefer wearing boxers!?!
Hitler was born on the 4th of January whereas Saddam was born on the 1st of April! 1 and 4, 4 and 1 - coincidence??? I DON'T THINK SO! :rolleyes:
And if you add the last two digits of Saddam's year of birth to the number of days Hitler was waging war you get a total of 666!
And they both drink their coffee black!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
OMG-OMG HOW 'BOUT THAT! Now me surely must kill all Iraqi people! Let'z go! Who's with me??
...What? My logic is flawed? .... :confused: noo.. can't be? :rolleyes:
Personally I like how the mindset of everyone is basically the same as before WW2. Its interesting the people never learn anything from the past.
Well it wont happen again because the militaries respond faster or we have the bad guys under constant surveillance.. Whatever your reasoning.
Hmm afraid of Hussian you say well. Bush probably is afraid. Of what can happen if he gets what he wants.
Hussain wants to be like Hitler. Hitler wanted to be like Napoleon. Napoleon wanted to be like the Caesars lol They all almost succeed each time and all because people like the ones on this forum turn there heads and say they're not that bad. They wont ever amount to anything.
Each time we give in and when it comes to the point where there has to be a war. More people would have died than if we had nipped them in the bud in the beginning. Imagine all the lives that would have been saved if Europe had enforced the treaty on Germany with force before Hitler built up his military. Instead of trying to talk him down. Maybe Iraq isn't all that much of a threat if only because of the US.....Just leave him alone now and give him 5 or 10 years than lets have a Bang up of a war were millions die and Nukes are used.
For the most part I see a lot of US bashing from people in other countries on here and when it all adds up you don't like the US because of your own countries "propaganda". Lets a terrorist fly a plain into one your large buildings and see how your countries react... Assuming you are in counties that can build large buildings that is.
As for the people here who are against the US Hope you don't live next to any large sky scrapers because the terrorist don't care if your for or against your country they just want to kill you because your an American, because of the "propaganda" they are led to beleave.
Originally posted by Luc Solar
...What? My logic is flawed? .... :confused: noo.. can't be? :rolleyes:
Yep looks pretty screwed up to me.......can you even define logic :confused:
You don't want to kill Iraqy people.......:confused: If thats all we wanted to do. We would just leave Hussein alone.
Ahhh I see its ok for Hussein to do it, becouse he is there dictatore. I get it now I see what your all saying. Who cares what kind of ruller he is to his own people let them handle him lol
ok ok let him kill his own people great idea :cool:
Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
Yep looks pretty screwed up to me.......can you even define logic :confused:
Hey,
I think he was being sarcastic.
Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
One more thing if you people don't like the US or what it does. It is a free country leave.......Go to Iraq sence you love it so much :D
Wow, what a interesting idea!
Love it er Leave it, hmmmmm no. Instead I'll stay and try to make it a good place for everyone not just the lucky or privileged.
Well I have never been Lucky or Privileged and had to work for everything I want or have.....I like the US just fine other than the hippies and the gang bangers. as far Luc Solar being sarcastic I knew he reread my comment a few times.
Originally posted by griff38
Hey,
I think he was being sarcastic.
Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
For the most part I see a lot of US bashing from people in other countries on here and when it all adds up you don't like the US because of your own countries "propaganda".
Don't talk to me about propaganda. The country I live in has been neutral all the way until WW2 (when it was forced unto the allied side, as it was occupied by the Germans), and has remained pretty neutral after that, especially in the last years. Here, you'll get to see cases from both sides of view. I do not say it's 100% free of propaganda, but don't accuse others of being affected by it when you live in a country where the largest newspapers says France and Germany is siding with Saddam.
Imagine all the lives that would have been saved if Europe had enforced the treaty on Germany with force before Hitler built up his military. Instead of trying to talk him down.
Germany would've attacked anyway, I suppose. They were mighty pissed after WW1, mostly because of the treatment France, UK and US gave it after the war. And how many unnessisary wars would have started if everyone bombed first and asked later? Pretty many. Actually, a lot of wars have been started that way, wars that could easily be avoided if the parts sat down and talked.
Lets a terrorist fly a plain into one your large buildings and see how your countries react... Assuming you are in counties that can build large buildings that is.
:rolleyes: Just because a country doesn't need to build large buildings doesn't mean they can't.
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
Germany would've attacked anyway, I suppose. They were mighty pissed after WW1, mostly because of the treatment France, UK and US gave it after the war. And how many unnessisary wars would have started if everyone bombed first and asked later? Pretty many. Actually, a lot of wars have been started that way, wars that could easily be avoided if the parts sat down and talked. [I]can't.
Norway lol need I type more.......YES
I bet you justifyed 911 didn't you.......
You are real screwed in the head justifying the Nazis in any shape form or fashion..... Gee lets go a tad bit further we wouldn't have gone to the moon if it wasn't for Nazis rockets. We wouldn't have jet plains if it wasn't for the Nazis. We wouldn't know exactly how much heat the body can take before you die if it wasn't for the Nazis......
WOW we do oh a lot to them don't we. I guess its a good thing countries like yours with its mindset set by and let them happen. because its better to let them BOMB you 1st rather than take them out before they kill you. That's a Great Idea.
"Sat down and talked" not everyone wants to do that you know. If I want to kick your ass and take you crap asking me to set down and talk isn't going to stop me :rolleyes: Why don't you go hang out in the Bronks of NY and when some guy comes up and says give me your wallet ask him to set down and talk lol :D PLEASE !!!! Now take that guy with the gun and give him controle of a country called IRAQ
Don't get me wrong I like countries like yours... Okinawa had that same idea back a few hundred years ago. Japan walked right in and said guess what your belong to us now lol
Jack, don't push it.
This goes for all of you - I've seen enough national stereotyping. Add personal insults to that, and I'll get mightily pissed.
Ok :rolleyes: So its ok to bad talk countries and poeple as long as it is the USA and Americans I'm bad mouthing :confused:
Don't get me wrong, but thats the impression I have of this hole post.......:mad:
Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
Ok :rolleyes: So its ok to bad talk countries and poeple as long as it is the USA and Americans I'm bad mouthing :confused:
Don't get me wrong, but thats the impression I have of this hole post.......:mad: :eyeraise: i think he doesnt realise how things work. meh.
Originally posted by InsaneSith
:eyeraise: i think he doesnt realise how things work. meh.
What way are things supposed to work ?:mob:
*suggests we should all ignore Cosmos Jack's posts until he gets a grip on himself*
*goes to bed*
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
*suggests we should all ignore Cosmos Jack's posts until he gets a grip on himself*
*goes to bed* agreed.*hides plans to destroy jack inside JM's bed.* :D
Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
Don't get me wrong I like countries like yours... Okinawa had that same idea back a few hundred years ago. Japan walked right in and said guess what your belong to us now lol I liked his posts. Anyhow, as I don't have much knowledge of the Okinawans from hundreds of years ago, I do know that they were lacking in advancements compared to the rest of the world. So I doubt they could've stopped the Japanese anyhow. Hell, Okinawa wasn't even on maps untill after WWII. Now you should see what kind of place it has become. I guess it's similiar to the US accepting Hawaii into the union. If it wasn't us, it would've been someone else.
Okinawa was a rich country however they were pasivist and didn't beleave in a military. Japan at the time being closed off to trade and the Samuri war lords wanteing to get rich. Not being able to do that they not Japan invaded Okinawa for the most part so they could opin trade routs. I said it wrong I guess.
Okinawa didn't change hands again tell WW2 when the US invaded the island and was given back to Japan in the 70s. We built roads on the island and cities on the island even after we rolled of the Japanese just as we rebuilt helped rebuild Japan.... I have lived in Okinawa and spent some time in main land Japan they don't hate the US there and we droped 2 bombs on them funny how things work...........but I guess they were brain washed by teh US .........
If you people want to egnore me fine I don't really care...
you insult me I insult you, but for some odd resion I'm the one singled out.
If you support Bush, don't talk about others not having the balls. You know why Bush&US wants to attack Saddam? Because they're dead afraid of him. It takes real guts to not attack him.
If being brave requires leaving a tryrannical dictator in power where he can eventually get or perhaps already has access to WOMD's, then I hope the US is full of cowards.
Don't talk to me about propaganda. The country I live in has been neutral all the way until WW2
Ummm, you are from England right? If not, then I'll appologize in advance for my incorrect assumption. Now i'm not entirely certain what you mean by remaining neutral, because I can list at least 10 Wars that England was involved in before 1890.....probably more....so perhaps you could explain what you meant by neutral...
Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
Well did you forget the Gulf War or were you alive at that time ?
I didn't forget. I'll give you a hint: I took this photo (
http://images.deviantart.com/large/photography/photomilitary/MLRS_in_Kuwait.jpg)
Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
He invaded Kuwait for there oil supply he had a long drawn out war with Iran so after a stale mate there he invaded Kuwait to build back his losses,
But one cannot ignore the fact that he was able to do all of this because the we (the United States) supplied him with weapons systems and billions of dollars. He was our monster.
Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
Hussain is not like Hitler here ither killing his own people. Hitler just killed Jews in his own country that's ok right. Hussain killed the families of the people against him. He has used gas on his own people.
Before pointing the finger at the genocides of others, it is helpful to be familiar with the genocides our own country has commited. Our government killed a significantly higher number of ethnics than Saddam and Hitler put together. Not that this excuses either of their actions.
Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
Hussain even cam to power in a vary similar way to Hitler
As did most of the world's leaders throughout history.
Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
The truth about Hitler is ... he was the most productive leader Germany had had for a long time and he really got the economy moving. Hell you can't even say that for Hussany
Interesting statement. The interesting thing about Saddam's governmental style is that it is, ironically, one of the only secular governments in the Middle East. His tyranny is, unfortunately, successful. This will bear out as true as we attempt to rebuild a democratic government amidst the ruin, chaos and anarchy that will follow in the wake of his destruction. Getting the Kurds, Shiites, etc. to agree will be interesting if not impossible.
Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
The UN doesn't have the balls to make the hard choices and never has.
I won't disagree with you there. There are plenty of indiscretions that have occurred and are still occurring the world over that make Hussein's reign look petty. The Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, the Tutsi genocide of Uganda, East Timor, and Chechnya for example. India and Pakistan absolutely hate each other and both are nuclear powers.... nothing being done there. It's time to continue to let the Arabs deal with the Infidel Hussein and focus on the real threats of the world.
Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
One more thing there was jets before 1940. Germany had developed them.
Yes... but not in military use. Or any other use... so as I said... no jets before '40.
Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
Iraq has seperation of church and state lol. So your saying killing your own people is ok as long as you have seperation of church and state. lol
Good point. Church / state is irrelevant. Genocide is bad regardless. The U.S. was considered to have a separation of church and state when it commited it's genocides.
Cheers
oh remember the fact that hitler himself was homosexual and a jew. sorry just thought id make sure people remembered that little fact.
also hitler didnt only kill jews but blacks, homosexuals, and handicapped(mentally and physically)