What do you guys think of the space shuttle explosion? While it might seem like terrorism, the chances of terrorists planting a bomb or hitting the shuttle with a missile are basically nil.

The shuttle is very carefully weighed since every pound of stuff on the shuttle costs thousands of dollars.

Also, a normal AA rocket couldn't reach that far into the air.

Still, with the first Israeli astronaut on board it was a tempting target....

Just a fine example of why we need to get the new one in the air...that old piece of **** can't handle it anymore :D

That's easy to say but NASA's budget has been getting cut back every year.

I don't think it's was a terrorist attack. Too unlikely and illogical. If the Israeli did it, what would be the motive? To cut off Israel as USA's ally? Go figure.

I never even suggested that the israelies would consider bombing the shuttle! Where you pull that from?!

Originally posted by razorace
I never even suggested that the israelies would consider bombing the shuttle! Where you pull that from?!

That was how I heard it on the news - They thought an Israeli onboard a US space shuttle was too good a chance...

Sting'ering the shuttle is both impossible and unthinkable in US land. Planting a bomb in a tight-security shuttle sounds ludicrous as well.

Let' put it this way: If it was indeed a terror attack, it has failed. People are passing it off as a structural failure (and rightfully so). For terror attacks to be effective, you need to show, with no inkling of doubt, that it's you who did that.

9/11 was a success because it was immediately apparent it was no mere flight plan gone astray.

If it was a terror attack, I wonder how the terrorists are feeling right now, when no one are even thinking about connecting it to them. If it looks like an accident, smells like an accident and sounds like an accident, it probably is an accident. The terror attack has failed by now if there ever was one.

Of course, I'm open to the possibility that the terrorists are going to appear on TV with a confession that it was them who did it. But I doubt they have the guts to do that, seeing what happened to Afghanistan. If it was Palestinians who did it, I seriously don't think they'd risk for the US to obliterate them.

No way "terrorists" as you call them did it...no point....you have to think strategy...they are up against such a big force....about the only way to win is to destroy key things in the U.S.'s economy.....

What possible interest is there in a space shuttle flight?


I know they make it out as it's all for the sole purpose to kill innocent lives....but that is complete bull****.

Originally posted by RoguePhotonic
What possible interest is there in a space shuttle flight?


Space shuttles are a symbol of the US.

"What possible interest is there in the Statue of Liberty?"...

'Thing is, if it doesn't get known that it's a terrorist attack, it has failed.

Very good point C'jais. I do not believe it was a terrorist attack, if it had been, it would have been made know that it was. Astronauts must always be prepared for danger or something going wrong when travelling to and from space, in a day and age when space travel is relatively new to us. They all take the risk, and risk their lives, just like these people did. I believe that it was a genuine accident, and a tragic one at that. All we can extract from this tradegy is what went wrong, and how we can stop it happening in the future.

Razor, it cost more than thousands, try billions. ;)

I said, per pound, not per year. Check your math/source.

It wasn't terrorists. We've already had reports and stories of what happened:

During take off, a chunk of ice fell off one of the external fuel tanks and hit the wing, knocking off a few vital heat tiles. During entry to the atmosphere, the kinetic energy transfered to heat energy, heating up the structure of the shuttle beyond capacity, causing it to break up. Nothing extraordinary or terrorist related.

However, if it was terrorists....one word.

Bastards.

Boy if that's true, the whole team that said that the shuttle was ok-dokie after some telescope checks are canned for sure.

I'm not sure that's the case thou. If that's what caused the accident, ether that team is totally blind or it was a 1 in million chance that came up snake eyes.

Well either Terrorist got brave or a undetectable missile etc. So that counts them out...Personally I think on of the heat shielding had enough stress that it flew off CNN reported earlier today or yesterday that a few of them was getting ready to fly off. I think when that happened if it happened, the heat hit the fuel I mean like CNN.com said reentry can reach up to 3000 degrees. And yes most of the shuttle fleet needed alot of work redone you think with all the Technolgy we have now of days we could of at least come with a way to enter space alittle easier.

i have to agree with invader here, my thought exactely

Let's clean up a few facts -

Whilst Columbia was the oldest Shuttle, built in 1979, it had just gone through a 19 month retrograde, the first planned for the rest of the fleet. Whilst it's shell may have been 23 years old, many of the inner components were not, most of them being the latest and greatest pieces fitted to the Orbiter.

Whilst it is 1970's design, that of the same era, or later than that used in Boeing 747's, F-14 Tomcats, F-15 Eagles, F-16 Falcons, E-6 Prowlers, SU-71 Blackbirds and U2 spyplanes, which are all currently operational US military hardware, it is agreed upon if the Shuttle had been designed now, the basic shape would still remain the same, the aerodymanic design is right.
The speeds that it had to cope with meant that little changes would have been noticable if we had designed on recently.

It is known that there was loss of hydraulic pressure to elevons on the left wing, which help control the shuttles descent in what is nothing more than an unpowered glide back into earth's atmosphere. Along with this is the change in pressure in the landing gear in that same wing, with the nitrogen filled tyres starting to feel the effects of what ever was going wrong up there.
It is also known that a piece of foam insulation, which was most likely covered with ice due to the extreme cold needed to keep the propellants stable, did break off from the large external fuel tank. This fuel tank is no doubt already in NASA's hands, being examined along with any remaining debris. It did appear to hit the left wing, which was later examined via high quality footage, and telescopes from Earth, and engineers passed it fit.
No one has confirmed, or denied that any tiles actually left the wingtip of the Shuttle Columbia. It is not actually rare for the shuttle to be missing some on return to earth. What may have been where this one that might've fallen off was positioned. On the leading edge of the wing is where most heat is built up, any heat allowed in through here would heat up the aluminium airframe. The wing would then most likely fall off, followed by an out of control Shuttle exposing areas to heat that they were not designed to handle.

It may have been the piece of ice, or it may have just been that the hydraulics had failed, causing the computer controlled glide and slide, to end up destroying the craft as heat entered the airframe.

Known current technology allows SAM's to reach 40 km altitude, along with the ability to track and hit targets that travel at approx Mach 3. This is approx where the SU-71's operating limit, at these heights, perhaps up to 50 km's from the earth's surface.
The Shuttle was 63 km up, along with travelling at Mach 15 or more. I assume if it was AAM, the US would've detected the intruding aircraft or missile in their airspace.
To even assume terrorism, or even mention this word in association with this event, is ludicrous.

The left wing was missing some tiles. You can see it in the video. It doesn't matter if someone that said it was ok to return. Even if they didn't how in the world would the repair it up there? Send another shuttle and risk the two running into each other? It sickens me that one of the first things that was said by some news station(not sure which one) was that it was a terrorist attack. Even before anyone at NASA had said anything. They didn't check it will a telescope, the shuttle has tons of cameras on board that are used to check for something like this.

Thank you BCanr2d2. I hate it when cowboy Americans (no offense to professional cowboys) go out and say things like "Its terrorists!" Without doing any scientific exploration of any sort...

Hate to see anyone go off at situations, and not even logically think about what is possible.

Hard to understand that as NASA looks harder at the video of the piece of ice/foam falling off the external fuel tank, that NOW they see what it has done....

Anyway, it would be technically impossible to have cameras on the bottom of the Shuttle to look for any problems there. Not only would they burn up on re-entry, they would also give small areas on the bottom of Shuttle that would allow for heat leak into the main structure....

The cameras in the Shuttle are actually more associated with the cargo bay, so that they can monitor the astronauts and robotic arm. If NASA told them to look for damage, I am pretty sure there was a way to get around them not having to return. The Robotic arm with a camera, or an astronaut in a suit could've done it for them. The only reason they actually checked for the piece of foam hitting the wing, was that everything had gone so well, they had nothing else to do...
After all, there is the International Space Station they could've docked with, and then send up another Shuttle to get them home.

The terrosist thing is pro-war propaganda. Why not blame every disaster on terrorists so we go into the middle east with flags a wavin' and guns a blazin'...... really! Pathetic! :mad: NASA makes mistakes people, alot. Space Exploration is dangerous, especially since I have known Navy ships that have been Decominished that are much younger than that old ass shuttle. I don't care how much maintenance you put into it, you cant make the damn thing last forever.

Read and despair. (http://www.godhatesfags.com/fliers/feb2003/The_7_Are_In_Hell_2-2-2003.pdf) (PDf. file)

Just one question: Can we all agree that this zealot needs psychiatric treatment?

Just a comment to the notion of repairing in space: The damage was on the underside of the hull, which means that it was impossible to repair in space. As for sending up another shuttle: Without being an expert I don't think that they have the oxygen supply to hang around in orbit while another shuttle is prepared.

Read and despair.

Just one question: Can we all agree that this zealot needs psychic treatment?

I doubt that they could even get a priest to back that. And that's saying something.

And yes, he does need psychiatric treatment (or a firing squad detail).

I too first questioned if this was perhaps God's way of telling us to stay out of space. I too am a Baptist, however after reading that, one cannot help to wonder if he had a nice tall glass of intolerance with his breakfast. What I was always tought, was that it was our mission to save people and forgive, not to condemn. Guess I didn't go to the same church this guy did. Thank God for that! :smirk2:

Originally posted by Darth Groovy
I too first questioned if this was perhaps God's way of telling us to stay out of space.

And if it is interpretted that way, it will prove once more that God doesn't know what he is doing. Seriously: We have to expand beyond Terra, or be destroyed in a specicidal war, or so I believe, at least.

Well, thinking long term here. We'll have to leave earth eventually. The sun isn't going to last forever.

Originally posted by razorace
Well, thinking long term here. We'll have to leave earth eventually. The sun isn't going to last forever.

Well, that's thinking long term indeed! :D

I'm thinking in the more immediate future than that. We're already getting too many people on the planet, and while the population growth will be less enourmous than it is right now, there's no indication that we'll ever stop getting more and more people.

Resources are also a concern. Unless we found that miraculous cure for all the energy problems, we're going to have a power shortage.

All in all, when too many people are crammed together with inadequate supplies, violence is bound to erupt sooner or later.

i dont think anyone was behind it at all i think it was a freak acident-now they are saying people warned of it and all that but think about all the sept. 11 rumors.

My girlfriend's dad and myself both agreed mere minutes after learning of the disaster thought that we had heard of the piece of foam, not ice, that fell and struck the left wing of the orbiter. We also thought, well, there should have already been a contingency plan to get the astronauts out of the shuttle to personally inspect the damage of the shuttle. They had 16 days to work with, surely they could have taken 5-10 hours out of the day to inspect the damage and relayed their findings to NASA whether through voice communications or even email for that matter. NASA really botched this mission big time. if I was in charge of the Mission and learned that there was damage to the shuttle, I would have grounded it before it even entered space. But because of NASA's overconfidence and stupidity, 7 people are dead, and they are rightfully taking the heat, which they should.

I guess i should also note that it would be impossible for any surface to air missle projectiles to reach the orbiter, so any land-based terrorist attack would be futile. The Personal Stinger missle according to classified specs, can only reach 5-10 miles, where as the shuttle was over 200,000 feet (207,??? in the air) or almost 40 miles into the air. So firing the missile at it would be a wasted missile and waste of time.

It's a true pity for NASA, the guys down there must feel so guilty, it's a shame. Unforunately it seems that our explorations into Space will be ultimately delayed, I can only hope that we send another shuttle up in the next 3 years. Damn freaking wars, they waste so much money so that lives can be destroyed; if only the world could come together and fund NASA so that colonies in Space could be a possibility..

I am agreement with some of you here, that it has taken less time than the Shuttle was in space for them to almost make quite a clear statement about what happened. As for the foam piece, remember that it surrounds an extremely cold tank, which makes the piece of foam most likely to be full of water, or frozen into ice, not just simply some foam..

Andy, it only takes 8 1/2 minutes, or 510 seconds for the Shuttle to be at orbiting height, it is one hell of a quick ride, tell me you could've made a decision in the 2 or 3 minutes that they had, to jettison the external tank, and external rockets, along with somehow manouvering the shuttle - in air it is only a glider, THEN not to have it too high in the atmosphere to have the problem of heat in the landing. I think you ask way too much of NASA to be able to do that.

It should be noted that NASA doesn't think that the foam caused the accident. They're estimating that the piece of foam would only weighed 2.5 pounds. There's no way a 2.5 pound peice of foam could have cause that much damage (if any).

But take 2 or 3 pounds accelerate it to roughly 500-1,000MPH, and aim it at your car, and see what damage it does. You have to realize that once the orbiter started taking off the mere inertia or force driving the Shuttle would cause the some proportion of force to throw the foam into the wing, which NASA themselves agreed caused a roughly 7" long hole in the left wing, which is more than enough to cause critical problems to teh orbiter.

I'm not sure I agree with your math.

This foam came off the shuttle, it wasn't falling from the sky. Yes, the shuttle is accurating like a bat out of hell, but I'm not sure that a piece of foam could come off the shuttle and hit at a speed to cause mission critical damage.

Originally posted by razorace
but I'm not sure that a piece of foam could come off the shuttle and hit at a speed to cause mission critical damage.

A gram of paint is enough to rip through the hull of your ship in space. A bucket of paint is enough to tear the ship apart in half at that speed.

It's a case of the Shuttle hitting the foam, not the other way round, think of that way.

It's the same kind of logic that people tell you when you drop a coin from a height, if it hits something, it will do a lot of damage to whatever gets in the way. It will also leave a mark in the ground, or concrete that it lands on too.
Grab a 1 kg weight, and then think about how something like that being hit by something going at about Mach 1 or so, then tell me it wouldn't do any damage. The tiles aren't indestructible, they are extremely heat resistant, which would tend to make me think they are of a ceramic base, which explains the ease in how they might've chipped/broken/moved.
Perhaps at the end of this, what may happen is that the leading edges of the wings will have some form of protection. The Shuttle will not be out of action for the same kind of 32 month time delay that happened after Challenger. Challenger was a case of faulty equipment, not an accident. They had to go through every single supplier and audit their production so that an act of shoddy design and manufacture wouldn't cause such an accident..

I don't care if it was either terrorists, human mistake or system faliure. It was just terrible. Think of the familys, who have to live on, without their father, uncle etc...I feel for them.

I'll remind everyone that the foam had the momentum of the shuttle when it detached. It's not like it was traveling at terminal velocity straight down. The math is very complicated and I can't say what the foam impact speed would be.

But in all seriousness, Echuu, it is because of severe human error that the families are having to deal with this great loss. If NASA had implemented an in-orbit repair procedure, there is a good chance that columbia would have landed in one piece. So, as you can see the cause and effect theory taking place. The cause: The foam hit the wing. The Effect: All 7 members of the space shuttle Columbia died in-flight.

Well razorace, if it was going the speed of the shuttle, which i have heard numerous times as well, it was going approximately 1,100mph into the wing.

yeah, in the SAME direction as the shuttle, the impact speed would be far, far less.

NASA doesn't think that the foam cause the accident. I don't think it did either. It's just the scrapgoat of the media.

I remember hearing just mere hours after the explosion, NASA was saying that body parts had been found.

Originally posted by Yahoo! News
_Forensics experts say they are confident remains of Columbia crew members can be genetically identified. Johnson Space Center spokeswoman says remains of some astronauts have been found in rural east Texas.



Originally posted by CNN.com
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Photographs taken by an Air Force tracking camera shortly before the space shuttle Columbia disintegrated show serious structural damage to the shuttle's left wing, an aviation magazine reported Friday.

The images, captured about a minute before the shuttle broke apart, show a jagged edge on the left wing structure near where the wing begins to intersect with the fuselage, according to a report in Aviation Week & Space Technology.



Razor, one thing we have to remember though is that once the foam was detached from the shuttle, for a brief second it is suspended in air, and within that second, the shuttle is still moving at 1,100mph+, which then strikes the foam piece, which when weighing 2lbs, can cause some serious damage.

You're still not understanding the momentum issue. The foam doesn't just stop instantanously when it deattached from the fuel tank. Yes, the air resistance slows it down, but the impact speed isn't easy to guessimate.

But anything even past 100MPH, which is probably underestimating would be enough fpr a 2.7 lbs piece of insulation foam(with probably some ice formed on it) to do some damage. And apparently,we all know that it was enough damage to place those 7 astronauts into their graves.
But one thing that confuses me is why NASA didn't implement a repair procedure. Oh wait, I know, they only wait till they kill of some of their own before they should do it. Perhaps one day they will actually learn to think ahead of time before making yet ANOTHER crucial mistake or wrong assumption. Perhaps this disaster will get NASA to get on top of the ball for once, and actually implement safety procedures. Shuttle repair procedure should be a basic procedure, not some idea to be considered.

I think the reason why is because they didn't think it was an issue.

First off, minor tile loss was expected and non-mission critical. The shuttles always came back with some tile lose.

Second, all the tiles are custom made. You can't just bring up some spare tiles.

Third, there's not enough time. The shuttle has a limited amount of fuel, oxygen, etc. Even if they had found major damage, they wouldn't have been able to do much. They didn't have the equipment, time, or fuel to either repair the damage or cut and run to the ISS.

Finally, there's the money issue. We could come up with a safer way to do our space exploration but it would take many more times NASA's current budget. Yes, losing the astronauts and a 2 billion dollar shuttle was bad, but we accepted those risks when we cut NASA's funding dramatically since the Apollo program.

Space Shuttle repair should already have been a primary procedure when space travel came to be.
NASA and anyone with a basic understanding of thermal energy and space shuttles knows that even the slightest crack at speeds of MACH 18 and 3000 centigrade is not good. Once that heats get up into the aluminum shielding, the astronauts are basically chicken in the oven as they are heated up to that fatal 3000 centigrade.

Third, there's not enough time. The shuttle has a limited amount of fuel, oxygen, etc. Even if they had found major damage, they wouldn't have been able to do much. They didn't have the equipment, time, or fuel to either repair the damage or cut and run to the ISS



All they would have to do is stop the shuttle. Then get a couple people out in the suits, and at least inspect the damage so if needed, another shuttle could come up with a repair crew. Because right now, there is more money being spent on the recovery then would be on any procedure that even I could conjure up.

And if losing the Challenger, and the 3 astronauts in Apollo 1 was bad enough, NASA still doesn't have more safety precautions? Hell, Apollo 1 was an accident waiting to happen with its suicide door.

They didn't have the money to DO that. Having a emergency shuttle preped and ready to go for every shuttle mission would have cost billions in additon to the money spent on all those extra spacewalks. Our political representives and NASA decided that it wasn't worth it. They made their bed; now they have to lay in it.

Well, If NASA would have quit screwing up with their heads up their asses, they would have seen all these problems, and the Government would still be helping in funding NASA. The gov't will only fund project that work, and with NASA repuation being less than reputable, they kind of screwed themselves over for a long time or until they can get themselves onto the positive side of the spectrum, like discovering intelligent life outside of Earth.

Nah, I don't think NASA did anything wrong. They just quit having the needed leadership and support from the Prez and Congress. If the Prez said TODAY that we'd be landing on Mars in a decade, NASA could do it (with the financial/political support).

Didn't do anything. Let's recall these dates:

1995: Independent specialists, hired by NASA, warn NASA that a piece of foam striking the shuttle and cracking even tearing away the ceramic heat tiles would be sufficient enough to cause probems.

Jan 16th, 2003: During launch, a piece of foam(possibly coated externally with ice) strikes the left wing. Several NASAengineers and specialists confront the mission leaders and other experts that the incident could prove critical in the re-entry of the orbiter.

Feb 1st, 2003: At approximately 9:00am EST, NASA loses contact with the shuttle, and amateur home videos show the shuttle breaking up into many pieces, while specialized Air Force Tracking cameras take photos of the re-entry, which show a jagged/damaged section of the left wing.

"The Columbia is lost."

So, because NASA ignored many warnings over time, they DID do something. They did many things wrong.

Hindsight is 20/20. There's ALWAYS some group saying that such and such is a danger. If we pissed our pants everytime a "danger flag" is raised, we'd never get anything done.

Originally posted by Andy867
And apparently,we all know that it was enough damage to place those 7 astronauts into their graves.

Actually, making that statement would be making a blanket assumption. The dislodged foam is definately a possibility (and looks very probable), but there is still much left to examine and several hypotheses left to test. It could easily have been micro-meteorites or tiny space debris. Many contend that it is only a matter of time before a spacecraft encounters some nut or bolt that is orbiting the earth. These bits of debris, themselves, could be traveling at 8 km/sec. Factor in the orbital velocity of the spacecraft, and depending on the bearing of both.... well, bullets on Earth aren't that fast.

Originally posted by Andy867
But one thing that confuses me is why NASA didn't implement a repair procedure.

There was no way to do so. If one has a flat tire, the driver stops his vehicle and uses the spare. This analogy doesn't work for the shuttle crew for two reasons: 1) they could not possibly carry enough spare tiles. It would require that they have one spare for each in use, since they are that unique; 2) The crew did not have that kind of EVA capability and were probably not trained in EVA since that was not in the mission profile.

Originally posted by Andy867
Oh wait, I know, they only wait till they kill of some of their own before they should do it. Perhaps one day they will actually learn to think ahead of time before making yet ANOTHER crucial mistake or wrong assumption.

That is a completely ignorant statement. I use the word ignorant because you obviously know little of how NASA works. They are the original thinkers when it comes to contingency planning. So, obviously they "think ahead." I will, however, conceed that it may be time for the Space Program to rethink it's vehicle design. Also, to even suggest that the folks at NASA would be careless with lives is a very calleous and thoughtless statement. NASA is a very tight-knit family. Most of the mission control people consider the mission specialists their friends. I cannot imagine what level of professionalism allowed them to continue calmly at their jobs as their friends perished.

Originally posted by Andy867
Perhaps this disaster will get NASA to get on top of the ball for once, and actually implement safety procedures.

NASA has been more "on top of the ball" than any other government agency in US History. I wish their level of efficiency existed elswhere. Safety procedures? Going into space is inherently risky. These astronauts knew this. The use a hydrogen bomb to get there for Pete's sake!

Originally posted by Andy867
Shuttle repair procedure should be a basic procedure, not some idea to be considered.

You're obviously a smart guy.... write a proposal and submit it.

Originally posted by Andy867
Well, If NASA would have quit screwing up with their heads up their asses, they would have seen all these problems, and the Government would still be helping in funding NASA. The gov't will only fund project that work, and with NASA repuation being less than reputable,....

NASA has always had, and still has, a reputation of being professional and of planning missions to the very second with contingencies for contingencies. I'm not surprised, however, that those that are largely ignorant are willing to step out into the limelight and nay-say as a highly successful organization experiences a tragic loss.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

SkinWalker