I'm not sure- but the storm troopers- their helmets look different to the origional trilogy. More pointy I guess? Or am I imagining it?
Also- in the scene at Naboo where it pretty much looked like the sound of music- Amidala standing on the hill while Anikan rides the 'thing' and falls off and she goes running over to see if he's ok, I coulda sworn I noticed her wearing sneakers. Has anyone noticed this? Or am I imagining it?
those helmets are different but its because they are not stormtroopers
they are clone troopers
What's the difference then? I thought the storm troopers were clones? Why do they have literally the same outfits then?
As time passes I assume the armour will change for some reason and clone troopers will be made to upgrade (or downgrade) their armour to standard Stormtrooper armour that we see in the later episodes.
Say, did anyone notice Jango hit his head as he went up Slave I's ramp after his fight with Obi-Wan?
I cant wait to find out how the Clonetroopers lose their NZ accents and become crap when changing to Stormtroopers.
Can only assume that Stormstroopers are NOT clones of Jango Fett- probably of Jar Jar. LOL
Also bet that Anakin kills Dooku/Tyrannus in Ep3- the Emperor probably goads him to do it, as he did to Luke in ROTJ.
How about when Amadala falls from the "chopper" to the sand and lays there unconscious. Then Obi-Wan and Vader fly to fight Dooku for a good 30 seconds or so. When Amidala wakes up she tells the trooper that they need to continue on to the "hanger". How the heck did she know this?
Clone troopers
i think leave with the wars
davin felth
was the guy who said "look sir droids"
remember post clonewars there is really no need for a large stanbding army
(stromtroopers are basically a police force)
Stormtroopers are not clones. They are recruited from planets withen the empire. Read this in the books Jedi search, dark apprentice, and champions of the force. Good stuff. Yah according to all the fiction, clones were outlawed after the clone wars. Why we do not yet know. Possibly because the emporer uses them to erradicate the jedi.
Yeah, and is it just me or don't some things add up through the movies
for example c3p0 spends AGES on tatooine but then in "a new hope" he can't figure out ( i think he says something like "im still trying to find out where i am" or something along those lines)where he is even though he lived their for at least 10 years ?
did anyone else notice these sort of things ?
In response to OldSkoolJedi, 3po had his memory wiped, which was why he didn't remember who Obi-Wan was when R2 had a message for him in Ep 4. I'm assuming the Jawas did this but I could be wrong about that. It might have happened before that.
I am 99% Stormtroopers ARE clones. And much more than a policeforce!
For a start this has been well known since 1977- for those of us old enough to have been there- plus putting clones in armour similar to stormtrooper armour also points to this. After all why abandon the effective troops who help you rule the universe- that would make zero sense!!!!! Well outside of the mind of Lucas- where he can make it up as he goes along!!!
The following link shows they ARE an elite unit, NOT A POLICEFORCE- although mention of clones is limited to Admiral Thrawn- presumably because for younger fans this will be an Ep3 spoiler (or worse Lucas has changed his mind). Also check the original Star Wars novelisation for more info on them being clones:
http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/stormtroopers/eu.html)
We will know for sure in 3 years time!!
Oops- remember the books ARE NOT CANON. We must ignore these- as Lucas has always said the films will at times contradict the books, and that we should see books and comics as an alternate universe/story.
Clones were not outlawed by the Empire, the New Repulic outlawed them- after all why would the Emperor again outlaw something that works in his favour, an army totally loyal?
If it turns out that Stormtroopers are not clones- then I would bet that the Jedi destroy the cloning facility, ceasing Palpatine supply.
Plus the books do not tie in with the films, in the books the Empire had its own cloning facilities, one of which on Byss made clones of the Emperor.
Christ I think Episode III is gonna be 5 hours long if Lucas is to tie every loose end together!!!
I believe that Stormies are not clone troopers. The reason i say this is because I read ,in the thrawn trilogy i believe, that the clones will go insane. Murderous rages and eye twitching, just plain mean. When they are incubated for five years< they will go insane in five years. I think I heard somewhere that Boba Fett is the exception to the rule because he was naturally grown?
Remember this isnt in the movie and cant be called "canon", so do with the information as you will.
Remember god made you unique, just like everyone else.
The books don't tie in with the film, Jake. There are many contradictions in the novels and the films, Jake.
Besides, George has already displayed how much he cares about the continuity of the series. Lucas makes his own rules, and is going to follow through with Star Wars the way he wants it, and is not going to be dictated on what the novels play out.
Stormies are elite troops, not clones.
Not police, but highly trained, efficient troops. The reason they seem crap is because they are the badguys. Leia v Stormie: Stormie is elite troop, Leia is a senator. Leia wins, she's the goodie. It is slightly less unfair now than with the original trilogy. Modern times.
STORM TROOPERS ARE NOT CLONES
Davin Felth!
( He is the trooper who says "Look sir. droids" if you read up on him you learn he joined at the age of 18)
General Veers!
(if you don't know who he is you should just leave now, in the clone wars all of the officers were highly trained clones. and yes general veers was merely a stormtrooper at one time, though it was not a very long time)
Captain Needa, Admiral Piette, DS-61-2, DS-61-3, DS-61-4the list goes on even from a Grandmoff Tarkin to traines all positions were held by clone troops other than the highest positions, and all of these officers were at a time troopers/pilots
If you say the clones were not pilots then why did the pilot's have the same voice as Jango and the rest of the clones?
That is all I have to say to prove that troopers are not clones
not to mention if you watch ANH i think i saw a recruitment poster
And for the police force deal that i said earlier
- they are infact a police force for the empire
but they are also more.
sorta like the US troops in some 3rd world countries.
If you read the books you learnt hat the when the CLONE WARS
end clones are outlawed
True, clones were outlawed at the end of the Great Clone War. Unless Lucas is changing that, too. As for the Star Wars canon, I treat the other books (outside of the movie novelizations) like an alternate reality or a "what if" scenario. Since we probably won't see Lucas do 7,8 & 9, then who's to say they can't be close to the mark, remember Lucas has to approve them before the go to press.
As has already been stated a few times, dorian, the EU is not canon and has no bearing on the movies. All of the people you mentioned--where does it say they were stormtroopers in the movie? Where is Davin Felth's name in the movie? No where, therefore it's liable to change if Lucas wants to.
In Episode 4, Ben says something to Luke about "The Clone wars" ie. Episode 2.
Storm troopers aren't clones, because if they were, there is the simple fact that the 'Clone wars' technically would still be going.
Stormtroopers, like all imperial officers and pilots are recruited from Planets that the Empire control.
Han Solo is an imperial officer, when he meets chewbacca, whom he rescues, thus finishing his career. And Han Solo as we all know is not a clone.
I bring up that point because: Why, if you can clone your general troopers, would you not also just clone your officers? It doesn't make sense cloning half of your troops, but recruiting all of the others.
Originally posted by Moses
In response to OldSkoolJedi, 3po had his memory wiped, which was why he didn't remember who Obi-Wan was when R2 had a message for him in Ep 4. I'm assuming the Jawas did this but I could be wrong about that. It might have happened before that.
And possibly Owen Lars' memory was wiped by Aunt Beru as he didn't pick out 3p0 from the jawa lineup in A New Hope. Man, that marriage was doomed from the start.
:D :c3po:
No- Owen forgot about 3PO. Who wouldn't want to?
20 or 30 years pass. The Republic falls. Stormtroopers are marching all over the galaxy. You expect a man to rememer 1 droid.
yeah i had a real dork of a roomate who use to read the star wars books non stop.. i would always argue with him about them.
" are they made by lucas?" i would say and he would be like "no they are made by all types of authors but lucas OKs them."
then id say how they are useless and i wouldnt take them at face value in terms of the movies and the REAL star wars story. and he would get sooo pissed rofl, but i was right anyways.
JEEEEEEEEEEZUZ you people lol
Well has NOBODY thought to look at the most obvious piece of evidence? Voices!
Jango Fett and HIS clones = Aussie accents
Stormtroopers = US Accents
Stormtrooper Officers = English, American
Stormptrooper officers are also simply stormtroopers who have been promoted. Look around the Death Star - is everyone coned? Why would the Empire only keep cloned ultra-dedicated soldiers when they could clone the best and most dedicated officers and not have people like Motti and Ozzell who question and mess up? What would be the point in having super-dedicated cloned troops, but inept, normal humans for EVERY SINGLE OTHER JOB!
Foooooools.
STORMTROOPERS DO NOT = CLONES
Also on the C3-PO issue. If you BOTHERED to watch EpII and the OT, you would notice that C3-PO has a change of coverings. AND ALSO do you reeeally think that C3-P0 is the only droid of his kind..my oh my, i seem to remember one JUST LIKE HIM only silver in the Tantive IV and on the Trade Federation droid control ship in EP1....but no.....WAIT! It's George lucas who's the complete idiot! I mean droid factories OBVIOUSLY only make one kind of droid, each with their own individual personalities and voices...god how stupid of me :P
it's obvious people. Just think instead of mindlessly criticising.:deathstar
Accents aren't in the genes. If you live somewhere long enough, you will adopt the accent of the region (like my dad, when he lived in Texas, and then he's lost it since we moved north). The voices of the Stormtroopers in the original trillogy are very similar to eachother and to the tone of voice of Jango Fett, despite the lack of an accent.
I want to add my 2 credits to the stormtrooper issue. In the first couple of pages of the new Star Wars book series, "The New Jedi Order", there is a very good timeline. It shows that ATOC takes place 22 years before the original Star Wars. A lot can happen in 22 years, including new uniforms/armor getting created for the Empire's troops. Also, only 2 years will pass between ATOC and Episode III so I don't know how much will actually change between the 2 movies.
I don't think they're clones. If nothing else, they have individuality and the clones don't. Besides, stormtroopers were named after Hitler's stormtroopers.
i dont think there clones either,in anh when luke + solo mug the stormtroopers gear dont u think they'ed have seen there faces and gone"hey up,these guys r identical......etc" but.....emmm........ this gives me a idea 4 another topic.
I believe that stormtroopers are a mixture of clones and recruits. I imagine that clones would be very expensive, so why use such expensive measures when you can simply conscript the population of a planet when the Empire comes to power. The Empire would use the expensive clones as crack troops and the recruits/conscripts (Davin Felth) as the stupid can't hit anything garrison troops
Another reason that Stormtroopers aren't clones...
Part of the reason that Jango was kept around Kamino was because they had to keep taking DNA samples from him as the previous samples would become tainted or something.
Since, Jango dies in EP2 the clones would have to stop being made.
So, does that mean the stormtroopers are just normal humans? That doesn't make sense, because the Empire has an infinite supply of them, almost. Are normal people really that willing to die.
Another thing, stormtroopers always die really easily cause they can't move about or see out of their helmets. How about they wear normal clothes-maybe then they'd live a little bit longer, eh?
somebody call Lucas up and ask him
OYA TO THIS
Where is Davin Felth's name in the movie? No where, therefore it's liable to change if Lucas wants to
Stormtroopers abandoned individuality in exchange for their loyalty.
RIGHT OUT OF THE HORSES MOUTH
goto starwars.com look at the stormtrooper section
CLONES NEVER HAVE INDIVIDUALITY!!!!!
SO THEY CAN'T BE STRIPPED OF IT
you don't know who davin felth is tisk tisk
YOU CALL YOURSELF A STARWARS FAN!
i know about alot of this stuff because i not only watched the movies read most of the books
BUT I PLAYED THE CCG GAME
(card game)
which lucas made just for the movies
NO EXPSANDED UNIVERSE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO BOOKS HERE
straight from the movies!!!
Jango Fett and HIS clones = Aussie accents
NOW ACCENTS ARE ONE THING
but completely different voices are another
an accent you can fake
a pitch of a voice and its tone impossible!
OYA IF YOU WANNA KNOW WHO DAVIN FELTH IS BUY
THE ESSENTIAL HANDBOOK TO CHARACTERS
HE IS IN THERE
HIS 1ST APPEARENCE IS EP 4
So, does that mean the stormtroopers are just normal humans? That doesn't make sense, because the Empire has an infinite supply of them, almost. Are normal people really that willing to die
THINK OF HOW LARGE CHINA'S ARMY IS
THEY ARE 1 COUNTRY ON THIS PLANET
HOW MANY MORE TROOPS DO YOU THINK CHINA WOULD HAVE IF THEY CONTROLED
COUNTLESS PLANETS????????????
LEMME GUESS EWOKS WERE ALL CLONES OF EACHOTHER 2
You need to lay off the trip man...and about the subject, I'll take your word for it.....
CLONES NEVER HAVE INDIVIDUALITY!!!!!
SO THEY CAN'T BE STRIPPED OF IT
Boba Fett is a Clone, he has a personality. We also get a look at a Clone in Episode II who looks as though he doesn't like being surrounded by thousands of people who look just like him (while Obi-Wan is going through the Cloning Facility and we get a look at the clones eating). Clones are just like identical twins, as someone else has said--they're not droids.
If they aren't clones then why does Leia ask Luke in ANH "aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper." You'd think if they weren't clones they'd have varying heights. Or was that just purely a joke?
Originally posted by Duncan Barr
I am 99% Stormtroopers ARE clones. And much more than a policeforce!
For a start this has been well known since 1977- for those of us old enough to have been there- plus putting clones in armour similar to stormtrooper armour also points to this. After all why abandon the effective troops who help you rule the universe- that would make zero sense!!!!! Well outside of the mind of Lucas- where he can make it up as he goes along!!!
The following link shows they ARE an elite unit, NOT A POLICEFORCE- although mention of clones is limited to Admiral Thrawn- presumably because for younger fans this will be an Ep3 spoiler (or worse Lucas has changed his mind). Also check the original Star Wars novelisation for more info on them being clones:
http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/stormtroopers/eu.html)
We will know for sure in 3 years time!!
ANH shows that you're wrong in a rather clear way. Ben's point is good, but there is also the fact that Han and Luke are walking down the corridors and Han is obviously taller than Luke, Officers would notice this immediately if they were used to Troopers being the same height.
What's more, since in AotC the officers are all Clones as well (Different colored uniforms), it would stand to reason that in the OT the officers would be clones if the troopers were clones.
This may not be absolute proof that they are not clones, but if it only leaves 1% doubt in your mind, there's something wrong...
I think Caliban had a good point.
After AotC there are millions of Clone troppers, and they are going to wipe out the sepratists. As they showed in AotC they are superior to the droids, so still maybe millions of clones will survive the Clone wars.
(By the way, the Clones are troops on these Ships looking like Star-Destroyers)
And as we see, the Kamonians are still producing millions of them. So you can't say, that there will be no clones left at ANH.
It may be possible that the Jedi (or the rebbels), had been clever enough to destroy the cloning facility.
So a mixture of clones and recruits makes a lot of sense.
(By the way. Cloning Officers would make no sense at all. The imperial Officers had to manage a great variety of jobs, while the clones just had to fight or lead a war. But as we heard in AotC they modified the DNA of Jango to make the clones more compliant. That wouldn't be effective for the imperial Officers.)
The clones wouldn't live long enough to be in ANH.
They were only 10 years old in AOTC and looked about 25-30 years old. That means the 1 million more on the way would be about 50-60 by the time ANH rolls around.
Not much of an army.
Okay, so much to post...
First to say Stromtroopers are not clones based on books is like saying Boba Fett is named Jaster Mereel and used to be an imperial journeyman, um... not anymore! So, books are not canon and are obviously subject to being changed and/or refuted.
Secondly, the accent thing. Sure Clones of Jango are going to have an accent, but Jango's dead. The next "template" for the clones may not have an accent. Something to think about...
Then, who would have outlawed clones after the war? Well, it's kinda obvious... that's right... Palpatine. Now tell me that makes sense. Palpatine is going to eliminate his source of a fast and extremely loyal army right when he's about to rock the boat by declaring himself Emperor. I don't think so! Maybe he would make it illegal for other people to be making clones, but do you honestly think that this purely evil man who uses clones as the backbone of his rise to power is going to stop using them because people don't like them? right...
Yes, Leia says to Luke in the detention area "Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?" This implies that Stormtroopers are a set height. But this is not damning evidence, just a little help that's all ;)
But here's another food for thought:
In Episode 4: A New Hope the Imperial officer on the Death Star called for teh Stormtrooper who was ambushed by Luke, Chewie, Obiwan and Han on the Falcon. Remember what he called him? That's right TK421, a serial number. That's all clones are: numbers. If they were conscripts , then why not call them private smith or trooper smith. We already see the definate conscripts (The Generals, Admirals, and officers) being referred to by name, not number. i.e. General Veers, Admiral Needa, Captain Piet. Are you telling me they started out as numbers and then get names? That doesn't work so well.
Also, As far as being to old and dying too fast. They were accelerated to full maturity, but then are allowed to grow at normal rate. They don't continue to grow at an accelerated rate after they mature. They need an army fast, not a bunch of kids. But what would be the point of making an army that grows to old to use in a matter of 10 years! Look at Boba, he was taken off the accelerated growth at a youg age, he ages normal now. The Clonetroopers are taken off it at around the age 18-25, then grow at normal rate. Clones don't just age that way because they are clones. They are injected/fed/etc something that allows them to grow faster, but then grow at normal rate when that stimulant is not used anymore. Otherwise Boba would have been ancient by Episode 4-6.
The idea that Stormtroopers are a mix of clones and conscripts is certainly viable. But to say that stormtroopers are not clones at this point, is a bit rash and basically throwing out logic in favor of saving your EU stories being shattered and rendered moot.
Clonetroopers are the Republic army, but when Palpatine becomes Emperor, he makes some changes. The armor will change and he'll call them Stormtroopers for a fear factor and most importantly, to signify taht the Old Republic is truly dead. The clones are led and commanded by conscripts, the officers, Admirals, Captains, and Generals.
Republic-> Clonetroopers
Empire-> Stormtroopers
Same thing!
May be the first million of Clones would be too old to fight. But what about the millions of Babyclones you can see at Kamino in AotC ?
And what about the next order, which the Kaminoian mentioned, which they will need more time for ?
The fact that Jango Fett died answered the question. They kept having to take blood samples, and if he's around no longer, then the army will not survive for long. It's only a matter of time...
Originally posted by She'ba Katana
May be the first million of Clones would be too old to fight. But what about the millions of Babyclones you can see at Kamino in AotC ?
And what about the next order, which the Kaminoian mentioned, which they will need more time for ?
That's right. The creature says that 200,000 are ready and 1 million are on the way, but it will take some time. How long? We do not know.
Originally posted by Darklighter
The fact that Jango Fett died answered the question. They kept having to take blood samples, and if he's around no longer, then the army will not survive for long. It's only a matter of time...
Right, cause as everyone knows, Jango Fett is the only man who can be cloned in the entire Star Wars Universe :rolleyes:
Why can't they use someone else as the clone template? That would explain why the Stormtroopers of the OT don't have an accent.
And do you guys enjoy skipping over posts? I just posted a long post in the attempt to support the "Stormtroopers are Clones" camp. Please read that in it's entirety, then refute all points before posting stuff like:
"The fact that Jango Fett died answered the question"
to prove Stormtroopers aren't clones.
Originally posted by Darklighter
The fact that Jango Fett died answered the question. They kept having to take blood samples, and if he's around no longer, then the army will not survive for long. It's only a matter of time...
Why would they have to keep taking blood samples? They presumably have his genetic structure on file...
ANH shows that you're wrong in a rather clear way. Ben's point is good, but there is also the fact that Han and Luke are walking down the corridors and Han is obviously taller than Luke, Officers would notice this immediately if they were used to Troopers being the same height.
Lucas took that senario from old Flash Gordon serials; doesn't have to make sense, it just had to happen for the story. Lucas is writing a morality play, a fantasy, not something that's 100% realistic.
What's more, since in AotC the officers are all Clones as well (Different colored uniforms), it would stand to reason that in the OT the officers would be clones if the troopers were clones.
The Troop officers were in uniforms, but they were still being commanded by the Jedi. Yoda was taking the place of General Veers in ESB. Stormtroopers are a different entity from any other branch of the Imperial army, and they can be commanded by the officers of any of the branches above them, the army Generals and the Fleet Admirals and Captains...
I keep seeing people saying things about the empire and the republic that differentiate between them. You do all understand that they are one and the same right?
The Republic becomes what is referred to as the Empire when the New Republic (rag tag freedom fighters anyone?) is formed. The New Republic is just a bunch of people who dont like what the republic has become (an empire).
The process really began in Ep2 with Palpatine being given dictatorial power.
Just thought I would point this out.
-TS02