TechTV (http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.asp?reviewid=69397)

(Italics Mine)

"There's been a disturbance in the Force, and it's this game. The game is flawed on so many levels (and in so many ways), that its occasional glimpses of greatness almost get lost in the Bespin Clouds."

WTF? I am at a loss at that statement, I feel like Navaros wrote it.

"Had the rest of "Jedi Knight II" lived up to the presentation, this would have easily been one of the best games of the year. Regrettably, the level design seems to have succumbed to the Dark Side. To say "Jedi Knight II" feels incredibly rushed would be an understatement. The whole game felt more like a Jedi combat simulation or a never-ending series of gauntlet runs. Mixing insane combat situations with bizarre jumping puzzles (inevitably involving crates of one sort or another), it's almost as if these maps were designed by Mario fans, not "Star Wars" aficionados. "

WTF?? Hmmm, I take it this reviewer didn't like Jedi Knight 1 either, I took a long time to beat this game, and it didn't feel rushed one bit to me....

""Jedi Knight II" is full of illogical and usually frustrating situations. Its first problem is that for the first four levels, Kyle is just a normal non-Jedi merc, stuck in storm trooper infested bases. Unlike the original "Dark Forces," however, these levels lack any distinctive flair, making the game feel like a "Quake III"/"Star Wars" mod, instead of a stand-alone product. Unfortunately, as much fun as it is to run around and hack up troopers with a lightsaber, not to mention the joys of Force powers, the problems with the game's design just get worse. "

WTF??? ...."illogical and usually frustrating situations", yet he fails to mention just one of these "illogical and usually frustrating situations." I don't consider myself a genius, and I didn't have any problems figuring out the puzzles.

"But Kyle's powers aside, the levels just make no sense. The movies proved that the Empire is intent on providing the most inanely unsafe work environments in the universe, and Raven seems to have taken that to heart. There are enemies in places where no one short of a Jedi could reach -- like on huge killer power conduits right in the middle of a ship -- for no apparent reason, and other cheap, amateurish map-design elements.

WTF???? Ummmm, Hello, this is the Star Wars universe, it is SPACE FANTASY, not real life...

For example, right after you finally get the lightsaber, the game sticks you in a huge, fantastic-looking "Star Wars" city, which is great, except for the fact that it's almost completely filled with snipers who have one-hit kill weapons that can't be deflected by the lightsaber. To make matters worse, through the whole game, aside from the occasional droid, there are absolutely no bystanders or noncombatants at all. You'll occasionally have artificial intelligence (AI) teammates (with terrible AI, making them next to useless), but the game is focused on throwing bad guys at you, and it almost ruins the "Star Wars" atmosphere. "

WTF????? I wonder if this reviewer was expecting Everquest or something, he contradicts himself over and over......the game is focused on throwing bad guys at you <----DUH! I am glad Raven took this approach instead of throwing good guys at me. I let Luke kill off the reborn by himself, so I really don't know about this so called "terrible AI"

"In the movies, there were always things going on in the background, always civilians around in the cities and towns. Yet here, when you walk into a crowded bar, everyone starts attacking you. Later in the game, the designers decided to throw in a stealth level just for kicks, with the excuse that there were too many enemies for Kyle to deal with -- despite that fact that he had probably killed more troopers at once in a hallway a few minutes before. As usual, stealth works poorly with the "Quake" engine, and this segment just felt tacked on. "

WTF?????? First of all this is not a movie, it is a game, secondly the stealth level was excellent.

"For all the problems and bouts with juvenile level design, occasionally the old Raven style shines through, and the parts that work in "Jedi Knight II" work tremendously well. Some of the battles are especially engaging, some of the level design is fascinating, saber fighting is visually spectacular, and the solid story line helps keep you playing despite irate bouts of frustration. But the good parts of "Jedi Outcast" are fleeting in the face of so much that's done badly, and all but the most devoted "Star Wars" fans will have a lot of trouble trying to overlook these flaws. "

WTF??????? "Irate bouts of frustration".....ok, now I get it, this review makes perfect sense now, the reviewer totally sucks at FPS, that's all he had to say, but noooooo, you have to read the entire review to get to that part....sigh



Final thoughts: Stay off the crack TechTV, That had to be the single most horrible review I have ever read for any game ever, seriously. Now I know why I never watch this show...TechTV is full of idiots.....

40% my ***.

I already started a post about this... it's a ways down, but you can read everyone's comments on it if you'd like.

Hmm, I scrolled back 5 pages and didn't see anything on it, was the thread maybe removed due to someone's language/spamming ??

That's because that reviewer is a total ****ing moron. He has no base to his conclusions, he just doesn't like Star Wars or Dark Forces, or both.

That "distinctive flare from Dark Forces" REALLY bothered me. Dark Forces was a bunch of boxes with door ways! WTF is he talking about! In the first level, the entire outdoor canyon area is a giant cube of gray rock! All ONE texture! It's like impossible to find your way around in that level. The most distinction was those stupid gray rock sprites lying on the ground that looked more like gray baseballs...

I like how in the end he says some of the level design is really good, the saber combat is really excellent and overall it's a great game, but gives it a 40% and contradicts himself in every other paragraph before that.


This guy's additude is, "I suck at FPS games, therefor ones that I am not god at suck in every maner. I'm a total ****ing moron and I base my opinions off of nothing, and I make an ass out of myself ALL the time, because I suck at FPSs!"

I just read the actual article... that moron bashed the multiplayer! I'm not going to quote but you can see the link in the post above mine. "level design unimaginative" my @$$. "unless you don't want to have saber bouts with stormtroopers and aliens" HELLO @$$ face! Thet's the whole point!. Just read the link.

i doubt that everyone here who plays it is a star wars fanatic ... hell, i havn't even watched the movies and i love the game ..


i am fine with someone not likeing the game but his review kind of makes no sense ... he talks about how dumb the levels are, and then at the end he comments on how they are good?



o well, hes an idiot, problem solved

I was extremely surprised at the review myself. Both reviews seem similar so theres no point in summarizing the one I saw on the TV... 2 out of 5... 40% :)

You'll occasionally have artificial intelligence (AI) teammates (with terrible AI, making them next to useless)

But you're the HERO which means... YOU DO THE WORK! In a fire fight in SW there is Han and a thousand guys and the only one that will hit anything important is HAN.... thats the way being a hero works!? Does he want the rebels following him around to actually do the fighting for him?

"In the movies, there were always things going on in the background, always civilians around in the cities and towns. Yet here, when you walk into a crowded bar, everyone starts attacking you.

This is actually an ok point. It would have been kind of neat (and would have created a more absorbing world) for there to be other people in Nar Shaada or Bespin that were innocents and not part of the general scum. People just walking about that you had to avoid killing. Or that would say funny things (instead of the annoying anger-causing comments the neutrals in JK1 had to say... 'Get out of my way!" "Leave me alone!") behind their store counters and such.

As usual, stealth works poorly with the "Quake" engine,

This guy ever play Urban Terror? Stealth works fine.

and all but the most devoted "Star Wars" fans will have a lot of trouble trying to overlook these flaws. "

I think the people on these forums prove this wrong. Most of them are in love with it and they range from just gamers to die hards from what I can see.

I agree with his assessments on the single player game. The huge, hanging in mid-air comm array was the most ridiculous thing I'd seen in my life. Apparently the Empire outfits its technicians with rocket packs for whenever their ships need to communicate. The lack of any citizens made Nar Shaddaa feel fake. The levels before Bespin were pure tedium.

Now, I'd not give it a 40% for that. Once the game put you in a place where you could actually use your saber and force powers and had jedi to slash, it was pure fun. Multiplayer's a blast. But that doesn't mean I'm blind to the game's faults, it has them.

I'm not saying this game is a 100%, but come on, a 40%, the reason I posted this review was to show everyone how reviewers can contradict themselves in their own review repeatedly.

I thought nothing in that review was really any good. It isn't the best game I have ever played but it isn't only 40%. I have never liked TechTV because it is a newbie station with newbie people. They are newbies because they dont know what they are talking about or doing. I posted a comment on that thing at the bottom that shares all my thoughts. Hopefully all the bad comments will prevent any reviews like this to take place ever again.

i completly agree with the reviewer myself...

i'd give it higher than 40% though, more like 75%

When I saw the communications array I also thought... this isn't a very efficient way to dial a phone... but I still had fun doing that part. There were a couple of things like the above that could have been a little more realistic... challenging in a different way but I would never give this game a 40%.

I would have liked to see them do something that wasn't a throw this switch and then go here... in example maybe you have to find a certain power cell to charge something up and then find out you need an access key from some guy then you have to come back again to change the communications array on a regular panel. Or maybe you would need his handprint on the panel... force him to walk in front of you (like when you open the bay doors with that other guy). Something like that... more than just finding the right button. More objectivey stuff.

Original Thread (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42254)

my response to review:

"the review is probably closer to reality than most of the reviews that are giving it 90+%...

with the ability to have superior graphics, sound, level design, overall game complexity, how on earth can you wind up having a game that is LESS atmospheric and immersive than past DF games?

You do it by having extremely linear level planning, 3D-platformer gameplay, and perhaps not a very involving plot (which tends to make the hit-switch-open-door puzzles seem oddly brainless)...

I can deal with jumping puzzles to the extent that JK2 has them... but when you have cities as large as bespin or nar, your eyes show you a huge map, yet your brain still feels the claustrophobia.. any kind of atmosphere originally experienced by you during the first 30 seconds of playing a new level is slowly worn away in the following minutes as you realize just how simple and linear the path is to be taken.."

"the best games are good because of intelligent game design, smart level planning, involving gameplay, atmospheric tension and feeling, and deep gameplay that allows for a relatively different experience for every user who plays the game... can you honestly tell me that there is a unique difference of experience for every user who plays JK2 single player? Some people may enjoy the game more than others, but the actual path and experience from the beginning to the end of the game is virtually *identical* for every single person who plays the game due to the level+game planning...

if you play any of the quality single player FPSs out there and use a walkthrough, you are *definitely* losing something of the experience - as many of the things you find are due to exploring and discovering them for yourself.. the things that you don't need to progress in the level are lost by using a walkthrough, and the game goes from becoming a much more open-ended unique experience, to a more linear experience like JK2...

if you play JK2 with a walk through, not much (if any) of the experience is lost... the levels are designed to lead you where you need to go and nothing more, doors that would normally lead to unnecessary paths to other parts of a base are simply painted onto the walls and are seemingly 'locked'... the doors that can be opened, *need* to be opened so that you can progress further..."

I agree with the reviewer on several points, especially the stealth level IT FELT TACKED ON; and there werent even that many troopers...

I especially disliked the sporadic force power effectiveness, sometimes you can pull an object out or push a button and other times you cant.

And Nar Shadaa was a horrible level, it was nothing other than constant quicksaves as you would get zapped by a sniper somewhere on a ledge as you walked near a window or out the door.

I do like the game, but it has its' flaws.

Ill give the mic back to the zealots now. :fett:

I agree with allot of what the reviewer said. Though I wouldn't give it score of 40%, I wouldn't go much higher then 60%. As it stands if I wasn't enjoying the multiplay so much, I would have shelved the game right after I beat it. I don't think I'll be able to manage a second run through the game, if only because of the ns_streets level.

The guns really were not all that interesting or useful or...starwars...for that matter. We had the bowcaster and the storm trooper blaster but the rest of them just didn't seem to fit the star wars theme. Heck, the sniper rifle is almost a complete copy of the Phase Compression Rifle from STAR TREK away team. And as for the wookie bow caster, its ALT fire bears a considerable resembleance to the ALT fire of the tetryon pulse something or other from star trek away team as well. The alt fire of the repeater rifle bears a strong resembleance to the alt fire of the scavenger rifle, also in star trek away team. And why the heck did they have to add in a rocket launcher? I'd almost give my right nut to see a FPS without a rocket launcher of some type.

The levels never really instilled suspense or tension in me. Perhaps because I was spending too much time playing "Spot the Sniper" and falling to my death, I never felt like I was beating the game 'on the fly'. I've hit the quick load key more times then I can remeber, and got into the habit of saving every other minute. At times it felt more like work then fun :(

Still the game DID have its moments. The sound was awesome, and the saber duels where all fun. Several of the puzzles where enjoyable as well. Multiplay is fun, though I would have prefered to see classes. Despite the no classes, MP adds considerably to this game. And I must add that the death star MP level has got to be one of the best I've ever seen. You can fire the SUPER LASER on it!!!

So all in all, an average game that could have been better if it didn't feel like a giant quake mod. Its not a 40% by a long shot, but I dont' think its deserving allot of the praise many reviews are giving it.

OOO

if you play JK2 with a walk through, not much (if any) of the experience is lost... the levels are designed to lead you where you need to go and nothing more, doors that would normally lead to unnecessary paths to other parts of a base are simply painted onto the walls and are seemingly 'locked'... the doors that can be opened, *need* to be opened so that you can progress further..."

OMG, I cant BELIEVE he faults the game for this. EVERY SINGLE FPS I have ever played has done this. I wonder what he expects? Has this guy ever even, you know, played any kind of FPS before? jesus...

HL, Deus Ex, Unreal... god, even Duke3d, RTCW, SOF, etc, etc... are far less linear...

only games that come close to how linear this game is, are maybe Quake1, Doom.. and neither of those games are really built on any kind of story, plot, etc...

Yeah, that is pretty common.. painted on doors.

I especially disliked the sporadic force power effectiveness, sometimes you can pull an object out or push a button and other times you cant.

Yes.... now that I am being critical of the game and not eagerly making my way through it... it would have been nice if more things responded to the Force... if you had a little more control over your Force targeting when you reached the higher levels. I think I would have liked it better if push/pull only pushed/pulled multiple targets if you charged it up a little (like jump jumps higher the longer you hold it). That way a little pull would grab a single weapon or item and yank it... holding it would pull several Stormies toward you. A tap of push would push one targeted object and a longer hold would push several guys over.

It would be nice to be able to push debris or crates... smash them into guys... crush them between a crate and a hard place or if they're standing on them, they would tumble to the ground as the crate/barrel is yanked from under them.

HL, Deus Ex, Unreal... god, even Duke3d, RTCW, SOF, etc, etc... are far less linear...
Dude... these are all linear games. There are very few nonlinear story driven games out there. No one wants to make a story that can radically divide itself. In each of the above games you HAVE to go from point A to B and kill C before moving to D. Granted Deus Ex lets you choose how you want to tackle an objective and that is VERY cool. The storyline still progresses along certain guidelines though. HL... you HAVE to go to the test chamber, Xen and then RIGHT at the end you have a choice of how you want the story to end... linear. Duke3d? You walk through every level hitting buttons and killing things until you smack the big nuke button... thats linear! :p

Well the rreason for the communications array thing was BECAUSE gee golly gosh you didn't have the security access to the computers to dial, if you noticed there was 3 computers to dial the symbols by they 'weren't online' ie you didn't have the access codes or authority to bring them online, so what are you going to do? go slaughter the bridge crew and try it from there? or do it the jedi way and do it manually?

bah it's obvious, they're trekkies

Yes sartis, but there is no earthly reason, not even in a fantasy, that a group would build their spaceship so that you have to jump from small box room to box room to boot up a computer. In all likelihood they would just put the controls in a locked panel somewhere. Hehehe...

my opinion of Tech TV went down a notch when i heard of the review... grrr:mad: oh well, i guess i wont kill them :evil3: hehe, anyway, well i guess its not for everyone, but i still love the game, a 110% from me the reviewer :D course im biased...

I have to admit, I agree with a lot of that. The stealth level in particular was ridiculous. I had faced and killed far more enemies at once than I was having to avoid, and that was the ONLY section in the ship that had alarms for troops in danger? Get serious.

As for the jumping puzzles, I was wishing m cieling fan would fall and knock me out through most of them. They just made no damn sense. Normally I have no trouble with suspension of disbelief, but when it affects gameplay then that is something else.

And finally, multiplayer. Ah multiplayer. I play the duel servers on a regular basis and have a good time doing so, but I have to admit it feels like a wasted opportunity. After Medal of Honor, RtCW, hell, even Unreal Tournament, I expect more than deathmatch and Capture the Flag. That is why I never bought Quake III. Deathmatch, in my eyes, is dead. The team-orientated, goal-based multiplayer of other games opened my eyes to a new way to play. A way with strateg and depth instead of running in circles shooting anything that moves. Can you image the battle of Hoth, faithfully rendered and executed? Wasted opportunity.

In the end, I think it is very fair to say that if this wasn't
A) Star Wars
and
B)Lightsaber ready

then this game would be bashed into oblivion for its level design, multiplayer, and yes, even plot (Dinosaur uses force to get to room under Jedi Academy that has no apparent purpose except to make players use Force Speed to reach it? Come on). The lightsaber is the only thing that saves this game from complete mediocrity. And with that, I will go visit the Duel servers and hope for users to mod where Raven failed.

--R--

"In each of the above games you HAVE to go from point A to B and kill C before moving to D. Granted Deus Ex lets you choose how you want to tackle an objective and that is VERY cool. The storyline still progresses along certain guidelines though. HL... you HAVE to go to the test chamber, Xen and then RIGHT at the end you have a choice of how you want the story to end... linear. Duke3d? You walk through every level hitting buttons and killing things until you smack the big nuke button... thats linear!"

I said they are far LESS linear than JK2... all of those games of course had a beginning and an ending, however through better level design they made each level experience seem like an actual place *enough* that it gave the level some atmosphere..

*edit*and if a level seemed to play easier if you went the route of stealth, then you employed such a strategy... the fact that JK2 had to spell it out like that just seemed: 'bleah'.. but in Deus Ex if you ever wanted to go the stealth route, it was usually because you were actually worried about staying alive.. not because some guy would flip a switch that triggers a cut scene where you're auto-captured... even the stealth level in RTCW fit a whole lot better into the environment.. they had people in watch towers.. with binoculors.. and you had to time their routes and watch-periods in order to get by... and then after that you could disable their alarm simply by sniping out the alarm switch before they have a chance to hit it...*/edit*

which kinda points back to my reasoning of comparing the playing experience of with and without the help of a walk-through.. in any of those games I listed, using a walk-through would hurt the atmosphere and experience.. because a lot of the places you go to seem to have some element of discovery and adventure to it.. even without a walk-through, JK2 feels like one of the Raven developers is constantly leading me by the hand to each switch I have to hit... because the levels are designed to do just that, and only that...

I guess I just keep remembering back to how I felt, "oh cool, a bar! with regular people I can talk to, to try and find this guy I'm looking for.." and outside it seems like this massive city at first glance.... and by the end of the level.. you have just enough time to look back at it all and trace the path that you've taken.. and you realize just how linear it is... it had the most potential of all the levels (imo), to deliver an atmosphere and experience that could be somewhat memorable.. it ended up being the biggest disappointment..

The SP game has it's share of flaws, it is quite linear in it's design and the puzzles are pretty simple. I don't think it gets a 90 (we love ALL quake games no matter how boring and repetative it's become!) or a 40 (I suck at FPS and live in my parent's basement, I hate everyone and everything). I'm in the middle ground like most people. As far as examples of FPS games that are not so linear how about Operation Flashpoint? Not only can you do a mission pretty much as you please (as long as you meet the mission's goals) but it has a pretty easy to use mission designer so you can MAKE missions. Most people who play it online don't play overdone deathmatch, they play hundreds of player made missions either coop or missions for both sides of a game (attack/defend a town/base, snipers vs. officers, endless list). My biggest problem with JK2 is the MP side of it. Deathmatch and CTF are all way overdone. And they made lightsabers too clumsy and random (quite like how Obi Wan described a blaster). All in all it's fun for mindless fragging, but after all is said and done....it's QUAKE WARS.

Another example of an FPS that's not linear....System Shock 2. Every door can be opened (no NPC allies because everyone is dead) and the atmosphere on it is creepy.

When I want a creative online community that everyone can contribute to I'll play Operation Flashpoint. (VERY realistic too, things like you can't run and shoot at the same time, you have to use a weapon's REAL iron sights like the M16)

When I want a good lightsaber experience I'll make lightsaber noises and blast a star wars music CD from my stereo and play Bushido Blade. That's what lightsaber combat SHOULD have been.

When I want mindless fragging I'll play JK2.

Wow, I agree with a lot of what the guy said, but Id still give the game a 80% mark. Hes right about the level design, hes right about the Ai, hes right about a lot, but hes missing all the good parts.
For example:
-Insane coolness and gameplay. Quite frankly this game has the best game play of any game Ive played in a LONG time. I remember when I played Max Payne thinking "this would be cool with lightsabers" well here it is.

And the parts the guy complains about, troopers on top of power things, those are other jedi.. it kinda makes sense since they can "feel your presence".

I remember a line from the movie "Cool Hand Luke" it was
"What we've got here is failure to communicate"

From my time on this planet I have noted there are two major species of people.........The ones who love Star Wars and those other ones who love "Star Trek" call me biased, but I'd rather not live in a society where we all wear tight jumpsuits have no jobs(there abouts as everyone has function within society) let alone get dirt under our fingernails..as we rush off to moderate peace and good will to all and sundry.....call me Mr boring but i'd imagine the Star Wars universe would be a whole lot more interesting!

Folks, what we have here is deeper than a failure to communicate
we have someone who is useless at playing FPS shooters, and probably went to the office fancy dress party as a Federation Security person with matching phaser and handbag (you know the one...the one that always gets killed in every episode)

Pay it no mind there are those of us who know, and there is those who dont care as we are on the company (federation) payroll...I suggest some of you talented skins artist's create a Star trek style bot that we may smite with our sabers and level 3 force grip's over and over and over again......

PFFFFFFfff Universal peace? what a loser......

The reviewer is clearly an idiot, but I do agree on one point he makes. I too hate every kind of jump puzzle in FPS. It is just so damn boring to jump from place to place and even more frustrating when you fall down. Whenever I play a FPS and come to a jump puzzle i go "OMFG Not again... not in this game also?".

But the jump puzzles are not a big part of this game, so it wasn't annoying for long. I like JK2 and anything less than 90% is simply idiotic.

Originally posted by Swamp
i doubt that everyone here who plays it is a star wars fanatic ... hell, i havn't even watched the movies and i love the game ..




WTF Man, You never saw the Star Wars films.. Have you been locked up in a cave.. Do you not have a DVD player, VCR, VHS, BETA, RCA Disc. OMG..

Make it a Block buster weekend... get the popcorn and Beer..

clearly an idiot? come on...he's right about pretty much everything...the score he gave is pretty low--but i, for the most part, see where he's coming from...

at least up until i got the saber...it was all awesome after that...just my $0.02


go read the actual article

http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.asp?reviewid=69397)

he basically said everything we've been *****ing about--it looks great, but level design in the start kinda sucks. is he wrong? come on---the crate jumping blows


mp--kinda boring..-as a result of lack of co-op.

oh well--i agree with him. and even if oyu dont--he's not a "f-ing idiot" or "obviously a complete moron"
come on guys, dont be so tunnel-visioned.

read what hughj wrote. i agree 100%.
its not that these other games weren't linear--they really were...however, you didn't FEEL like they were. that's
what's important. a real non-linear game (besides something
like GTA) would be HUGE--as in gigs and gigs

i have mixed feelings about this review

first, it is contrary to about every other review we've seen...

second, it is somewhat generic, but reviews are supposed to be



but...

i agree very much on the subject of level design

for a long time, i have been noticing that games have strange level design for no apparent reason...i mean its nice to be able to find secret areas, but why would someone put them there? if i was being invaded by a rogue jedi, i would want my ammunition and weapons and explosives at the fingertips of my troops, not at the mercy of my attacker....

it would have been nice to have a reason to go searching for stuff....i really liked the hiding spots of many of rtcw's secret areas, and the gold that was in them....it made sense...in JO, the context of the game basically dictates that there SHOULD not be any hiding spots

but for an fps, this is understandable for gameplay reasons....

something i REALLY agree on is the lack of civilian interaction.....i mean there was very little neutral/non ally chat, and it seemed out of place in many of the places...in ESB, even when the empire had taken control of cloud city, the city was still a bustling hub of trade and simply people....there werent any civilians in JO....that would have been nice...

but overall, gameplay has to take preference over upholding fantasy reality truths, and this game had a so-so way of balancing it....i dont really think that this game has been warranting 90%s, but hte 40% is way out of place...

the latter review did have insight, after all

tech tv did give MOHAA a 5 out of 5. So I still read their reviews occasionally.

Well, the bottom line is giving the game a 40% is outrageous, if anyone here agreed with it, they wouldn't be posting on this forum (barring your occasional 3 day trolls) 40% is reserved for games like Diakatana, not games that are mentioned when "game of the year" comes up.


btw this in not the Game of the year in my opinion, but it should be mentioned in that category.

yeah i agree the 40% was a little uncalled for..

Their points were somewhat accurate but 40% is low. I would say 70-80 imo.

The level design in the game did Suck. They violated so many rules on making realistic levels that flow together it is Nuts! I loved the action sequences of the game, but moving from sequence to sequence made the game one of the most annoying I have played in years. I am just glad I finished so I can now go back and just play my favorite parts.

yo wtf? 40 pacent yo I be all str8 up fo givin thiz game at least a 45

OK I've seen tons of complaints about the Doomgiver comm station level where you must force jump in that cavernous room between the cubicles with different signals...

1. The game points out - as Kyle says "I guess I have to set it MANUALLY" ie. the Imperials would not normally go down there to change signals, it's just that Kyle was locked out of the controls. Only a Jedi could do that without some kind of floating skiff or jet-pack.

2. It is very in-keeping with Star Wars classic environments from the movies. 'Bottomless pits' abound in ESB and RotJ.

I think there's other 'puzzles' more worthy of complaints.

manually or not, it doesnt make sense. nobody would construct something like that, nobody would waste so much space on a ship and theres no way for the troops to get there that seem to stand around in those small rooms all day long, hoping for some jedi to come along.

something like that would never appear in the movies because its nothing more like 'hey, we need some more mario-like parts in this level'. if there is the option to set and activate it manually there must be a way to DO so for them because else they wouldnt bother to have it. and i doubt anybody (well, obviously except some braindead imperial architect) would scatter consoles in as money unaccesable small rooms as possible.

also: i wouldnt even call that a puzzle. a puzzle is something that requires someone to think not just jump around and search the right room.

"not games that are mentioned when "game of the year" comes up"

i honestly can't imagine a single respectable reviewer even considering this game as a 'game-of-the-year'... that's something that's reserved for the 'AAA' titles out there that can offer a hint of depth... JK2 has the polish of a AAA title, but it doesn't come any where close to how a AAA plays and feels.. which is what counts (or should count) most above all other features of a game..

you'd have to be a pretty deluded human being to be able to look past all the game design flaws, to give it a mention solely based on laber saber 'coolness' appeal..

Why don't you all stop preaching to the choir and email TechTV and the guy that wrote the review.

the partner AI is EXTREMELY well done, i had 2 jedi (1 jedi and 1 trainer) on the second time to Yavin, and they worked very well as they should. Jan worked grand when she was with ya.
and well... this isn't a team game! Kyle is a solo merc, in truth he prefered solo in DF1, and jan was only supposed to be his informant through the missions, twas DF2 that got them together :p, but still Kyle worked alone.

I said they are far LESS linear than JK2... all of those games of course had a beginning and an ending, however through better level design they made each level experience seem like an actual place *enough* that it gave the level some atmosphere..

Well, atmosphere and linear gameplay are two completely seperate things. In linear gameplay the story line moves from one incident to another in an unchangeable manner. With atmosphere that linear storyline has a lot of flavor, excitement and mood. I just got confused as to what you meant.

If you were talking about the fact that this game could have had better atmosphere... I agree. All in all I think they did a decent job but some neutral NPCs and less button related objectives would have put this game over the edge. The part where you lead the commander at gun point to open the bay doors.... cool. More things like that would have been sweet.

I agree that there are things that could have been better but I also think there are things that were done very well. Whereas I thought some things could have been done better as far as level design... the levels never fell below standard for me so I couldn't rate the game any lower than 75%... my fan appeal probably kicks that up to 85% / 90% though. ESB was the first movie I ever saw. Saw it in a drive in theatre in my pajamas.

jk2 was linear, and there are some problems (particularly with last levels and nar shadaa), but how you come to the conclusion rtcw was not as linear. Jk2 suffered because it was set in installations and/or ships all the time, as such unlike rtcw (or moh which hid linearity much better) it couldnt always use big levels to hide it. that sneaky rtcw level, nice big level, but of course, you have to go the proper way or you get seen, and its game over...its the same difference and its just as obvious and just as annoying, at least in jk2 the guards would have been able to see you unlike some hawk eyed guards in other game's sneaky parts...

Originally posted by Swamp
i doubt that everyone here who plays it is a star wars fanatic ... hell, i havn't even watched the movies and i love the game ..


i am fine with someone not likeing the game but his review kind of makes no sense ... he talks about how dumb the levels are, and then at the end he comments on how they are good?



o well, hes an idiot, problem solved

Thats the first and only negative review, I never read TechTv, probably because I watched the show yet, and the guy was clueless, trying to tell the world that zip drivers were replacing floppies, err, uhh, no, they are useful mass storage devices, but CD's are replacing floppies, considering they cost a few pennies per CD, and hold 600+MB, rather than #10/sick and only hold 100MB..... Oh well, wonder what he thinks of Barbie fashion designer, I bet he liked it..........:rolleyes:
\


As to you having not watched the movies mister

[vader voice]Don't make me destroy you![/vader voice]

TechTV hurt themselves more than anything. When people see the tens of reviews that reputable organizations such as Gamespot, PCGamer, Gamespy, that have given it at least 90%, they'll realize that those people over at Extended Play are just full of ****.

I know I'm never going to go to that show for reviews anymore...

"Well, atmosphere and linear gameplay are two completely seperate things"

yup, they are completely different things, when on their own... linearity within itself doesn't necessarily cause a bad result either... it's blatant linearity that does this... and blatant linearity can, and will hurt atmosphere by drowning out the possibility for the suspension of disbelief to be maintained..

(imo), the (by far) most involving atmosphere of the entire game is created on Yavin (prior to getting your force powers and saber).. coincidentally that map also offers the least linear of gameplay (the simple ability to walk around, see what the Jedi are like in their home, etc), the most use of regular people whom belong in that setting, and it actually is designed like it could be used by the people who inhabit the level.. rather than simply leading you where you need to go..

"that sneaky rtcw level, nice big level, but of course, you have to go the proper way or you get seen, and its game over"

when I originally played that level (assuming we're talking about the grass level, with the watch towers), I orginally thought how linear it was going to be (being that I needed to sneak through without much option)... but as I continued playing it, I realized I had more options open to me.. being able to disable alarms themselves.. or choosing to sneak through it completely.. and none if it felt scripted... it didn't feel to me like I was, "supposed" to do anything in particular.. just play the level the way I felt best in each situation...

the maps in JK2, on the other hand, start off looking large and open-ended, but at the end they are very obviously linear.. every level *actually feels* like it's scripted from start to finish, it almost doesn't feel like I'm playing the game anymore, rather just getting lead from checkpoint to checkpoint by whomever designed the map.. it reminded me more of my experiences playing Rebel Assault 1+2, to be honest..

Hey, can someone tell me what the last AAA quality game was?