Originally posted by WhiteChedda

trying to tell the world that zip drivers were replacing floppies, err, uhh, no, they are useful mass storage devices, but CD's are replacing floppies, considering they cost a few pennies per CD, and hold 600+MB, rather than #10/sick and only hold 100MB.....

sorry, but thats definitely wrong. are you going to tell me you're burning your cds 3 times a day? the CD is the mass storage device and i guess more people are using zips than rewritable cds. or in short: cds are completely different from floppies.

visit a university and ask what they use to transport their files between home and there.

cd's are more popular but definitely NOT the successor of floppies.


btw. anybody wonder why kyle still needs to find keys when he could just saber through the door? *gg* maybe it would have been time to come up with something more creative than the good old 'red door requires red key'. how about finding access codes for consoles? at least just destroying them wouldnt work just as good as having a key.

I have to agree with the very stressfull amount of jumping puzzles....I think I heard kyle's 'waaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh'
falling down scream tons of times......the distance between some platforms are just SO....exact, with no room for error even for a few inches. also, the levels somehow prevented the 'non-stop action' I was hoping for this title....I mean puzzles are good, but going back and forth beetween places takes more time than actually fighting bad guys.... and um,....sorry, but the "so-many-troopers-i-need-to-sneak" excuse was lame. kyle can whip their sorry asses anytime.

However, I can't possibly give it a review less than 80%, IMHO its a great game despite its flaws...I just hope the level design next time is more 'action-oriented' and less 'explore-until-you-find-the-damn-switch' style.

peace.








:)

Originally posted by Phoenixhunter
Hey, can someone tell me what the last AAA quality game was?


Baulder's Gate II? Diablo II? UT? I seem to recall all of these getting a game of the year award, and while I agree Baulder's Gate II is in a league of its own, JK2 matches the other two in my opinion. But then, I buy games for single player being a low bandwith dial up modem user and all.........

Perhaps BG3 multiplayer sucked ass, though I seem to recall it being just as enticing at our LAN's, albeit somewhat buggy and too easy to cheat in......... :(

Last great game, starcraft. Heh.........I still play it, so...............its taken its lumps and stood the test of time, last great FPS, Q2. OR Max Payne if you allow 3rd person.........

Originally posted by Trienco


sorry, but thats definitely wrong. are you going to tell me you're burning your cds 3 times a day? the CD is the mass storage device and i guess more people are using zips than rewritable cds. or in short: cds are completely different from floppies.

visit a university and ask what they use to transport their files between home and there.

cd's are more popular but definitely NOT the successor of floppies.


btw. anybody wonder why kyle still needs to find keys when he could just saber through the door? *gg* maybe it would have been time to come up with something more creative than the good old 'red door requires red key'. how about finding access codes for consoles? at least just destroying them wouldnt work just as good as having a key.

Err no its not, when is the last time you bought software on a ZIP disk? CDROM? Yeah...... Visit a University? Does UF count? In that case, they are using a VPN network over DLS/Cable.. I work all of 20 feet from UF, and sometimes in UF at their Ag. department. My job is with the State of Florida, Dept of Ag and Conumer Services, and while we have a few old relics who can't let floppies go, the majority of us use the Network & Cd's to transfer files from one computer to another, because ordered correctly they are cheaper than floppies, and oh, you can write to a CDROM multiple times, you just can't REWRITE to it or Delete data on it, there is a difference. As long as you don't seal it other CDRW's can read and still write to it. I have a zip drive in my computer right now, it is unplugged, just sitting there..... Worst purchase I ever made.

Heck we are looking into getting Cable/DSL deployed to out field offices over a VPN is possible, but it looks like the availability of the services is our limiting factor. Some of our offices are technically in a swamp.

Originally posted by WhiteChedda
Err no its not, when is the last time you bought software on a ZIP disk? CDROM? Yeah......


it's not about what software is sold on, it's about whats talking the place of floppy discs. and there a zip is just as 'useless' as a floppy disc.

of course you can write mutiple times and even overwrite it a few times but how many people do this? floppies were used to transport stuff from one pc to another and today i dont know anyone wasting his time burning a cd if a zip would be big enough.

you have floppy discs and cds. even technologically they're completely different, a cd isnt even a magnetic medium. so i dont know why they should be wrong to say that zips have replaced floppies? just like dvds will replace cds sooner or later. just because cds are so dominant today doesnt mean they're the successors of floppies. you had data to transfer you used a floppy, you had a lot of data to transfer, you had a problem. but if anything is used like a floppy was used earlier its the zip. it even looks and works pretty much the same and thats the whole point. personally i dont need floppies or zips, i got dsl *g*. cds are only used to store large amounts of stuff.

but thats one of those 'point of view' discussions and im afraid i share their point of view as a zip is pretty much the same like a huge floppy and a cd is not.

Originally posted by Trienco

it's not about what software is sold on, it's about whats talking the place of floppy discs. and there a zip is just as 'useless' as a floppy disc.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't that the primary use of floppies in the early 90's. Software distribution? So logically that which is currently the primary means of softwre distribution would theoretically be replacing the floppy, right?

The other use of a floppy was storage of data to be used later on this or antoher computer, correct? Which CD's are being used for and being used for greatly, or at least as greatly as zip disks are anyway, networks are by far more popular than either, today as cost for thier parts come down...

of course you can write mutiple times and even overwrite it a few times but how many people do this? floppies were used to transport stuff from one pc to another an

Anyone with current CD writting drivers can write mulitple times, overwritting required different knowledge, but I left overwritting out of it for CDROMS, and heck, CDRW's are cheaper than zip disks if we want to go this way, so........

today i dont know anyone wasting his time burning a cd if a zip would be big enough.

I don't know wnayone that has a Zip disk at home and at work that actually uses it, does that mean its not done? What wasting his time do you refer to anyway? My CDRAM drive burns 100MB as fast as a ZIP drive writes it? I have an IDE zip and I believe a 24Xwrite CDRAM drive, and if I need more than 100MB the CD is certiainly more convienant, plus older computers that do not have CDRAM drive certainly do not have an internal Zip, but do have a CDROM drive. Of course going from them you'd be stuck with floppies still but I alredy said I yield if you claim nothing replaces floppies. .... and if you suggest using parerellel zips your high, those things lock a system up more than anything else, and floppies are actually faster, I swear.

you have floppy discs and cds. even technologically they're completely different

The average consumer/user is not concerned about technlogical comparison, they are concerned about convienance, and in some cases looking cool, CD' s get him/her that as every computer UF and FDACS orders has a CD ROM if not RAM drive.Not everyone has a zip disk, everyone also has an ethernet port. The average geek is concerned with whats the safest method, and agian the answer is Network, CD, then zip/floppy disk.

If someone in our building walks off with a zip, you can bet fiscal is looking for them, oif they walk off with a Clank CD, no one notices, they are CHEAP.

a cd isnt even a magnetic medium. so i dont know why they should be wrong to say that zips have replaced floppies? just like dvds will replace cds sooner or later. .

So now a new medium cannot replace an old one? Thererfore HDTV will never replace TV in your eyes, right, after all ones analog, and the other digital, higher resolution, better definition. By your belief, internal combustion engines never replaced steam engines either, but reality dictates otherwise. Different technology and all.

Give it up, TechTV was wrong about zip disks, and in my opinon, they are wrong about JK2.

just because cds are so dominant today doesnt mean they're the successors of floppie

:rolleyes:

What does then? Some technology no on is using?

you had data to transfer you used a floppy, you had a lot of data to transfer, you had a problem.

No you used a lot of floppies and a compression/archive program like PKzip. Though part of what floppies were originally used for was replaced by harddrives, Floppies became secondary storage and distribution [data and software], which a CDROM is a cheap replacement method.......

but if anything is used like a floppy was used earlier its the zip. it even looks and works pretty much the same and thats the whole point. personally i dont need floppies or zips, i got dsl *g*. cds are only used to store large amounts of stuff.

So you contradict your argument? Now its DSL replaces floppies for you? But we are not talking about you, we're talking about mainstream America, and Zip drives, simply are NOT that popular, and in order for floppies to be suceeded, the product has to be used. I will stand down as in truth, a floppy drive still comes with every computer so one could argu nothing has replaced them, and that would be correct, but ZIP drivers fall short on every instance, except being a magnetic media. Which for both consumers and geeks means jack ****.

Works similar in tech means nothing in this world, take cars. Everyone should know what a distributor is. How mnay people own cars with a distributor? How many have a cylinoid in stead? My 93 grand prix had a cylinoid, most newer cards do, Trucks [which I currently own a 1999 silverado] are not caught up yet, but they are heading that way. Do they serve the same purpose, yes, do they do it the same way, no.

but thats one of those 'point of view' discussions and im afraid i share their point of view as a zip is pretty much the same like a huge floppy and a cd is not.

Tech TV did not say "Zips are like floppies though", they claimed they are replacing them, there is a difference. The Probe is 'Like' a mustang, but contrary to Ford's intention, it did NOT replace the mustang, they currently produce both.

To replace a floppy the replacement has to be USED.

I'm a huge star wars fan but everyone of the guys points is valid. Who didnt wonder about the level designs? the uncrowded streets and the stealth section?

I still love the game though and 40% is a tad harsh....60's maybe?

the review reminds of the Simpsons episode where Homer becomes a food critic...he just write for the sake of saying something bad. Unfortunately its the only way many people will get noticed in life is to do something bad. I'm not saying JK2 is perfect, but everyone knows it deserves at least an average to above average score.

I think there are two ways one can rate a game:

1.) Break it down piece by piece. If you have five pieces, then each would stand for 20%. If you thought level design was crappy, then give it 5 out of 20, so it is worth 5% of the overall score.

2.) Assess it as a whole. Rather than breaking it down, think of it more as the overall experience. Using this method, such weaknesses as level design and illogical puzzles could be pushed aside as the graphics and gameplay were exceedingly well-done.

Now if we broke it down like we did through this thread then maybe we would get a score in the 60's (maybe) but a 40? Nope. On top of that previous reviews by Jason did not seem to show any kind of orderly break-down in terms of scoring seperately and then combining.

That all said, we can fairly deduce (and not just saying "Jason is some kind of weanie who lives in his parent's basement" to paraphrase), that Jason failed to experience the game as it was intended (and has been experienced by the vast majority of players). Whether that means he lacked the ability to integrate using force powers in combat, failed to employ somewhat simple strategies (like using Force Speed with Tavion to make up for her speed), or perhaps something as simple as having a bad day...or week.

Case closed.

I watched the review on TV... and you know what? They had video playing from the first few levels, and went into detail with the first few levels, but they didn't mention anything after the level where you first have your saber.

I don't think they even finished the game.. what great reviewers they are! And they said MP was lacking... lol. I don't even want to go there. They ripped off 60% because they didn't like the level design (I don't think it's much different from normal shooters. You have to keep in mind that "realistic" isn't always "fun."). And besides, so what if the level design doesn't make much perfect arcitectual (sp) sense? It's still a heckuva fun game.. isn't that all that matters? Since when do we need realistic environments to have fun?

And does everybody remember Obi-Wan in the original Star Wars movie? On the 1st Death Star, they had switches to turn forcefeilds off suspended over a huge bottomless pit with a TINY catwalk to reach them. That's where this game got it's level design - from the Star Wars movies. Isn't that was we're supposed to want?

It's a bad review - not very well written, not scored in any logical way, and incredibly over-harsh. I don't know what they were expecting from a game, but they were expecting way too much considering today's technology in games.

That's my 2 cents.

Every single review I've read cites exactly the same problems...however the scores vary wildly.

Problem 1) First 4 levels. Everyone agrees they're just plain FPS style shiznit. I agree with them too. I even got stuck plenty of times on them as well, they annoyed me.

Problem 2) Jumping puzzles. Everyone agrees they're extremely annoying, and not realistic in the universe. We had a similar discussion about continuity in the universe for Wizardry 8...however, most of the people in on the Wiz8 board tore the guy to shreads, up and down and across the board. Mainly because they (we) knew the universe and the game FAR better than said guy.

Continuity aside, they had to make you use Force Jump SOMEHOW, so they decided to use the jumping puzzles. The endless crate room seems kinda iffy though, it does need a bottom. The communications box seems quasi-iffy. It can most likely be configured from the bridge anyway, and that's just how you manually configure it. Maybe they have portable ramps....who knows.

The AI seems to be a mixed bag. Some people praise it, some people find it lacking. Me, I actually like it. I think the AI is good, and I also believe it improves on the difficulty setting, which makes me understand the mixed bag scenario.

Weapons were also a mixed bag. Some people like blowing things up, some think it's too Trekkish. Personally, I could've done without the Tenloss Disruptor Rifle, Rocket Launcher, and the EMP gun (the EMP gun is useless). They should've switched the repeater alt-fire back to what it was in JK, and kept the quasi-inaccuracy. I liked the shotgun weapon though. AFAIK there is no such thing as the Tenloss gun, and doesn't the E11 have a scope on it?

However, all of this has to come back to the fact that this, is, in heart, an FPS. FPS games all have their corny parts, so don't expect this one to be any different.

My thoughts :)

1 comment on that - EMP gun is not useless.. it's pretty much the only gun I use.

It takes out anything electrical (turrets, those walking thingies, AT-ST's, etc.) with about 50% less hits than normal guns. FAR from useless.

And I just wanna say that... it's a game. It's not supposed to be real. It's a game. I think people need to realize that and stop nit picking things such as "level design." If it's fun, looks pretty, and doesn't get you lost 50 million times, it's good enough, and doesn't deserve a great game to get knocked down to "crap," which is the 40% range.

And, TechTV gave Obi-Wan for Xbox 3 stars.. I heard that Obi-Wan was the crappiest Star Wars game to come along in awhile.

The only part where level design really bugged me(besides the occasional hard to find method of moving forward) in the game was that absolutely ridiculous hovering code system on the Doomgiver... Maybe had there been ladders and stuff connecting all of them I would have bought it, but half the rooms are suspended in midair with no evidence of being held up by something... Not to mention the fact that the frequency was chosen by navigating a huge bottomless pit and pressing buttons spread one by one across the whole thing. I can't believe they included that in the game.

Besides that, the level design was nothing substandard for most FPSs, and giving the game a 40% is ridiculous.

i make it short this time as we're quite off topic here.

two reasons why we will never get anywhere:
-you talk about 'mainstream america' which should be less than 1/5th of the whole world while i consider europe (which is also less than 1/5th). you obviously work in an high end environment, as over here i guess 95% of the people never heard about cdram.

-different opinions on what replace means.
i consider 'making obsolete' not as 'replacing'. in my eyes zips ARE replacing an obsolete technology (that's why nobody uses them much except people without networks and different pcs at different places... win xp might change that, but zips are more comfortable.. especially if your universities have pc-pools where 50% have a zip and NONE has a cd-rom).

as i said: point of view. yours is economy and mine is technology. therefore i dont consider their report as wrong as you do as i guess TECHtv was rather sharing my tech. pov.

sorry if i got off topic, but i just hate if people start bashing on someone because he has a different opinion. i read it and i could see how they come to this conclusion. why not try to understand why they think so and explain why you dont instead of just calling them stupid for having a different opinion? ah right, human nature.. were would we be without all those pointless wars? we might not even have a pc in every household today *g*

there is some points he make i agree on

1] the com array..

dont these guys ever use the device them self?
dont tell me that everytime they have to use it, some poor guys gotta make all them jumps.. "aaw maaan, is it my turn again allready?"

2] the stealth mission

am i the only one who thought this was outta content?
only 5 min. before, Kyle took on what, like 50 stormtroopers..

so, just becouse some emperial dude pushes a button, they capture you? what, without a fight? it would have been more realistic if when he pushed it, allota stormy's ran in, that way it would serve a purpose to remain hidden.. also you could still fight your way out of it.