Ha ha! I have figured out the answer to your riddle.
All these too-in-depth MI fans talk about this to death, so listen up:
THE SECRET OF MONKEY ISLAND WAS REVEALED AT THE END OF MONKEY ISLAND 2: LECHUCKS REVENGE. How do I know? Well:
1. When Ron Gilbert wrote the first game, he could not have predicted how popular it would be. Therefore, he would not have concoted a huge story which would span over a decade and last 5 games, only to reveal this secret at the end. (I know there are only 4, but there will be 5 in total.) For all he knew, Monkey island could have been a huge flop, and a sequel wouldn't have been commisioned.
2. Ron Gilbert said after the first game was released that the vending machines and the other 'modern day' items in the series had a 'deeper relevance' which would be 'revealed in the sequel'. At the end of MI2, Guybrush is a little kid at the Carnival of the Damned. This would mean that the significance is that he has been a kid the whole time, and thus vending machines would not have been out of place (assuming he is from the modern era. A kid in the 17th century WOULD have found vending machines wierd.)
3. Ron Gilbert did not make CMI or EMI. These have been made to extend a popular franchise beyond its sell-by-date, as has been done with Nightmare on Elm Street, and hundreds of other films. What I mean is, there may well be a secret that will be revealed in MI5, but it was thought up at the very earliest in 1995 (conception of CMI.) At this time, MI2 had been out for 3 years, and Rons secret (ie, the real one, as he created the series) must have already been revealed.
Sorry kids. MI5 will be released saying that it will finally answer the secret of Monkey Island, but it will be the fake secret. The secret that LucasArts created almost 10 years ago, when they realised that no-one had figured out that the secret had already been revealed. Because, the real secret is that LeChuck is guybrush's brother, and they were at the carnival the whole time. Don't believe me? Then tell me, how did Guybrush escape from the carnival? LucasArts didn't tell us how, did they? Ron tried to stop them from making MI3 by ending MI2 with that impossible to solve problem, so they got around it by just pretending the whole thing didn't happen.
Thank you, I'm here till Thursday.
We had a discussion about the secret in an another thread and the evidence there was quite similar.
Did you think this up on your own?
It's a possibility.
Yes I did. I've thought about it a lot since the last E3. Impressed? Why not go to my site.
Of course, Ron Gilbert also said that MI always was meant to be a triology, so he actually didn't try to "to stop them from making MI3 by ending MI2". Still, one can always speculate, and if MI5 will give away the secret, the odds are that it isn't what Ron had in mind.
That is news to me. You know your stuff. What you said souns about right.
Yes, but Remi's version is a whole lot easier to read ;) Welcome back Lucastones (i.e. ghostpirate_lechuck). We must talk...
I've pretty much always thought that the secret was that Guybrush and Chuckie just became lost in their imaginations upon entering some sort of cursed pirate-themed carnival.
As for the non-Ron 'secret', wasn't it revealed in EMI? And it was, of course, a really stupid joke that didn't make any sense because it contradicted the other games.
Didn't... everything in EMI contradict the other games?...
are they really going to make a 5th game?
thats great.
i should really get mi2 and mi4, shouldnt i?
You HAVE to get 2... but 4 can wait until it's worth 5 bucks. :D
I hope you mean until it costs 5 bucks. We all know how much it's worth now. :guybrush:
I heard the exact same theory on the old board.
EMI is worth the cheapest CD-R money can buy. *AHEM* no I do not own a pirated copy, I don't own a copy at all... you read this didn't you:
http://pub6.ezboard.com/fdosuserforumsgeneraldiscussion.showMessage?topicI) D=382.topic ?
=mek=
Originally posted by Schmatz
Didn't... everything in EMI contradict the other games?...
No, that was CMI
EMI too.
I see it as two separate series.
Or Ron's Monkey Island is like two films, and CMI and EMI are the animated series based on the films.
ok, i'm really scared to answer this incase i accidently reveal how much of a fool i am - but hey, it's not as if i'll be surprising anyone
did anyone else notice that at the end of MI2 the carnival is a parody of the port at booty island? if everyone noticed this, i never said it and you're imagining this post - otherwise maybe thats something to do with the secret?
I believe at least most people noticed that, and I also think it's somehow related to the secret. Seeing that all the random modern items are most likely meant as hints of what the secret is, the carnival at the end is probably directly linked to that.
splendiferous - my intelligence hasn't been compromised *phew*
I realized that... but that might only be because the creator's were too lazy to remake the entire thing. Besides... I don't have a clue how it would relate to Booty Island... Is the Weenie stand supposed to be related to a costume shop? I don't think it is related, but that's only my opinion.
Originally posted by Schmatz
I realized that... but that might only be because the creator's were too lazy to remake the entire thing. Besides... I don't have a clue how it would relate to Booty Island... Is the Weenie stand supposed to be related to a costume shop? I don't think it is related, but that's only my opinion.
Nah, the whole scene was actually recreated from scratch. It wasn't just a re-edited Booty Island. I believe Trap did some overlays of it a while back that showed it.
I've said this numerous times:
Ron had two Secrets: one was the "Guybrush is a kid" secret that MI2 apparently ends on... Another is some mystery Secret that was never revealed. He wasn't sure if there would be any MIs after MI2, so the game was ended in such a way that if it was the last game, then Guybrush was a kid, but it was still open to a sequel and a different Secret. (Elaine's appearence in the credits.)
Oh, Meksilon and Schmatz, and don't flame EMI for Jolly Roger. Chances are he'll like EMI. Sorry if you don't like it, but most people do. So don't try to convert everyone to your minority. ;)
Originally posted by Trapezoid
Oh, Meksilon and Schmatz, and don't flame EMI for Jolly Roger. Chances are he'll <I>like</i> EMI. Sorry if you don't like it, but most people do. So don't try to convert everyone to your minority. ;)
Since mr hacher is going to hasche-out any attempt at saying anything even remotly mean I'll just say: Jolly Rodger will love Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge if he liked the original game - NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.
But I KNOW you couldn't say the same for Escape From Monkey Island.
=mek=
Originally posted by Meksilon
Since mr hacher is going to hasche-out any attempt at saying anything even remotly mean I'll just say: Jolly Rodger will love Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge if he liked the original game - NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.
But I KNOW you couldn't say the same for Escape From Monkey Island.
=mek=
Most of us played MI2 years ago. It holds a special place in most of our hearts. Most of us love CMI too (except you, Meksilon) despite the apparent slew of disappointment when it was released and in the spotlight. EMI bashing has died down too now that the game's over a year old. Whiners make themselves heard until they're bored.
MI2 is a classic, it's an old fashioned stable adventure that's easy to love. Chances of liking it are higher than EMI's for that reason... But EMI is still for the most part enjoyed by the less cynical among us.
Originally posted by Trapezoid
Most of us played MI2 years ago. It holds a special place in most of our hearts. Most of us love CMI too (except you, Meksilon) despite the apparent slew of disappointment when it was released and in the spotlight. EMI bashing has died down too now that the game's over a year old. Whiners make themselves heard until they're bored.
MI2 is a classic, it's an old fashioned stable adventure that's easy to love. Chances of liking it are higher than EMI's for that reason... But EMI is still for the most part enjoyed by the less cynical among us.
I guess it depends on your point of view. From my end, everyone I know personally or through the net who made initial claims still maintain that they didn't like EMI... myself included.
Originally posted by Trapezoid
Most of us played MI2 years ago. It holds a special place in most of our hearts. Most of us love CMI too (except you, Meksilon) despite the apparent slew of disappointment when it was released and in the spotlight. EMI bashing has died down too now that the game's over a year old. Whiners make themselves heard until they're bored.
MI2 is a classic, it's an old fashioned stable adventure that's easy to love. Chances of liking it are higher than EMI's for that reason... But EMI is still for the most part enjoyed by the less cynical among us.
Whiners? Well it seems to me neither CMI or EMI deserve a fan-site - my personal oppinion. Get it?
=mek=
I loved EMI myself. But yes, it has a different type of humour to CMI (which I thought was boring) and to the first two games. It's inevitable with different writers and different designers. CMI managed to capture a lot of the innocent humour of the first two games; EMI the sharp sarcasm and pop-culture cynicism. Arguably, they both failed to capture the other half of the Monkey Island magic.
Originally posted by Snapcase
I loved EMI myself. But yes, it has a different type of humour to CMI (which I thought was boring) and to the first two games. It's inevitable with different writers and different designers. CMI managed to capture a lot of the innocent humour of the first two games; EMI the sharp sarcasm and pop-culture cynicism. Arguably, they both failed to capture the other half of the Monkey Island magic.
And likewise, the first two MIs failed to capture CMI and EMI's magic. It's good that they're different. Variation keeps the series interesting. Strange but true.
Was there a huge outrage when MI2 came out? I would think there was, however I don't know because at that point I wasn't really old enough to care about how a game compared to its predecessor(s).
Okay, here are my two cents:
I enjoyed the first three games the most. CMI was great, beautiful graphics and the voice acting was perfect. Somehow, Guybrush sounded just like I expected. Okay, CMI looked different than the two previous games, but it captured the right MI feeling immediately.
Then EMI came...
I don't think it was the story (although it's a tad weak)... I don't think it was the humour (although the funniest part for me in the whole game was Guybrush tied up in the intro). It definately wasn't the music and voice acting (LucasArts know what they are doing on that part).
I think it was the 3D part.
Now, I don't want to say that 3D is bad, because I enjoyed Grim Fandango very, very much.
I think 3D just wasn't right for a Monkey Island game.
The 2D graphics in Monkey Island 1, 2 and 3 had far more detail. Characters were much more interesting (I think because of the facial expressions or something).
Instead, the latest game looks flat and misses the warmth of the gorgeous hand-drawn images from Monkey Island 2 and CMI.
Action elements like 'Monkey Kombat' didn't add much goodness to the game either, it just did the opposite.
I think I would have enjoyed this game much more with hand-drawn images looking like pictures from a pirate-story capturing the feeling Ron Gilbert had in mind. The feeling of Monkey Island has gone away in EMI...
Of course this is all in my opinion, this is how *I* feel about it.
--Erwin
It's the old skool vs 3d people all over again. ;)
Hm... I have a feeling that MI5 will be cel-shaded. That could have some potential.
I don't find fault with the nature of 3D, but rather the way it is used. EMI could have looked better than it did... I felt the backgrounds were really lacking in many places (like Lucre Island)... but I don't agree about characters being more expressive in 2D than 3D. It depends on the artist and how 3D is used. I, however, felt that much of the animation in EMI was really quite good. SCUMM 2D animation is actually a tad limited in terms of the more common animation like talking. EMI had lip sync technology, which I really enjoyed.
But I do theorize that the art direction on EMI was more of the problem than the nature of 3D. Bill Tiller commented on how he drew all of the backgrounds himself in CMI, then had others paint them. It gave the backgrounds a unified style. EMI didn't adopt this method, and it may show.
On a side note, I hope for the next game, LEC uses non-photorealistic rendering to make a 3D Monkey Island that looks 2D.
Originally posted by remio
Hm... I have a feeling that MI5 will be cel-shaded. That could have some potential.
over on the milegend forums I suggested they did it using cel-shading like this:
http://www.sega.com/images/p_jetslide_ss3.jpg)
On a side note, I hope for the next game, LEC uses non-photorealistic rendering to make a 3D Monkey Island that looks 2D.
Yeah, or just the next game period. Cel shading is cool. But it looks best with black outlines.
Yeah, EMI wasn't THAT bad... I just said it's probably best to wait until it COSTS five bucks... because, honestly, I don't think it's worth it. I mean, they used Murry from time to time in CMI and that was cool, but then he made a one-scene appearence and all he did was hang out on a stool. Plus the fact that they made him shaped like a real skull, not like the cartoon one in CMI. I also found it funny how all the characters changed heights and looks. Otis didn't have reddish-brown hair and had like facial hair, etc. In this game he just wasn't cool... and the Swordmaster, Carla, looked like she was friggin pregnant. EMI wasn't a bad game, it just followed the story horribly compared to the other MIs. If you want it for an adventure game go for it, but if you want another great MI game, don't bother.
Or if you want a great MI game, DO bother. I think it's a great MI game. And so does my hairy little friend. And Max does too.
Originally posted by Schmatz
Yeah, EMI wasn't THAT bad... I just said it's probably best to wait until it COSTS five bucks... because, honestly, I don't think it's worth it. I mean, they used Murry from time to time in CMI and that was cool, but then he made a one-scene appearence and all he did was hang out on a stool. Plus the fact that they made him shaped like a real skull, not like the cartoon one in CMI. I also found it funny how all the characters changed heights and looks. Otis didn't have reddish-brown hair and had like facial hair, etc. In this game he just wasn't cool... and the Swordmaster, Carla, looked like she was friggin pregnant. EMI wasn't a bad game, it just followed the story horribly compared to the other MIs. If you want it for an adventure game go for it, but if you want another great MI game, don't bother.
They couldn't very well make Murray as cartoony as in CMI as EMI had a very different look to it. I also think I'd argue that CMI followed the storyline of the first two MI games as badly as EMI did. I still dig both new games. I don't think the MI series should be taken too seriously, especially after all of the original team left.
You have to take EMI for what it is, and that's a humor game. Not a pirate adventure, not another installment in an epic series, just a little thing that's meant to make you chuckle. If it doesn't, hey, that's your perogative. But don't bash it just because it dosn't live up to MI1 or 2.
Originally posted by Squinkee
You have to take EMI for what it is, and that's a humor game. Not a pirate adventure, not another installment in an epic series, just a little thing that's meant to make you chuckle. If it doesn't, hey, that's your perogative. But don't bash it just because it dosn't live up to MI1 or 2.
So why'd they call it MONKEY ISLAND? And what other reason is there to bash it? It's crap. Accept it; even you didn't think it was an adventure.
=mek=
EMI was just a high-budget Monkey Island fangame.
Except it wasn't made by people who understand the first 2 games.
=mek=
I seem to recall we talked about this to death on the old forum.
Basically, MI1 and MI2 are special. They are different - RON made them. MI3 and MI4 are bother great as GAMES. They are not great as MONKEY ISLAND GAMES. There is a difference.
The major problem with MI4 is that it seems that Clarke and Stemmle don't respect the originals - I mean, that monkey head: It was the entrance to the catacombs. Wouldn't we have noticed back in 1990 when we first used the Q-tip in the ear 'oh look, controls. Why are there chairs in this Monkey Head?' etc etc.
Basically, MI4 was a MI game for people who had only played MI3.
But you speak for yourself there, I am disappointed that most "Monkey Island fans" are fans of CMI and EMI.
=mek=
Jesus!
Ron isn't a god. He's not as cool as Tim Schafer is. Meksilon, you seem to be obsessed with the first two games and you won't give the third and fourth a break.
CMI was a beautiful update to the Monkey Island mood and style. EMI, yes, didn't respect the first two games, but it had a very 'Who cares, screw you' attitude that I and many other found very funny.
If YOU don't appreciate CMI and EMI, and they aren't hard to appreciate, you shouldn't be complaining about the games. I believe Ron Gilbert said something to the effect that he hates it when gamers complain and think that the creators of games owe them something.
No, you shouldn't be complaining, we should be pitying you because you've become too biased towards the "originals", and as a result you automatically shield your eyes from CMI and EMI's appeal.
Originally posted by Trapezoid
Jesus!
Ron isn't a god. He's not as cool as Tim Schafer is. Meksilon, you seem to be obsessed with the first two games and you won't give the third and fourth a break.
CMI was a beautiful update to the Monkey Island mood and style. EMI, yes, didn't respect the first two games, but it had a very 'Who cares, screw you' attitude that I and many other found very funny.
If YOU don't appreciate CMI and EMI, and they aren't hard to appreciate, you shouldn't be complaining about the games. I believe Ron Gilbert said something to the effect that he hates it when gamers complain and think that the creators of games owe them something.
No, you shouldn't be complaining, we should be pitying you because you've become too biased towards the "originals", and as a result you automatically shield your eyes from CMI and EMI's appeal.
I was sorta sick of this discussion about three years ago, so I'll just say I generally agree with most of Trap's statements. Just for the record.
Originally posted by remio
I was sorta sick of this discussion about three years ago, so I'll just say I generally agree with most of Trap's statements. Just for the record.
What about my Tim Schafer statement? I thought that was probably sacrelige, but I really do think he's got more cool and original ideas stirring in his mind. Even though I like Monkey Island more than his games (except perhaps Grim Fandango), Ron's other works aren't as cool as Tim's. IMO.
But yes, I too am sick of the me-no-like-EMI discussion. But I'm a defensive person and I don't get out enough.
Originally posted by Trapezoid
I too am sick of the me-no-like-EMI discussion.
Just like I get sick of me-like-EMI-it-is-Monkey-Island discussion.
Can't you see that Trap?
=mek=
Maybe so, maybe so. But you can't deny that quite a few people love EMI (and CMI). I don't like it because it's Monkey Island. I like it because it's damn funny. If you don't see its humor it's your problem.
Originally posted by Trapezoid
But you can't deny that quite a few people love EMI (and CMI). I don't like it because it's Monkey Island.
Contradicting yourself?
Originally posted by Trapezoid
You hate EMI and CMI because they're not made by Ron Gilbert, I love them because they're Monkey Island games.
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28990&pagenumber=3)
=mek=