:Trapazoid sinking deeper and deeper into a pile of sh*t:
Whoops. :) I guess I was wrong the first time. I'm sure if they came out with a terrible Monkey Island shooter I'd be pissed. But if they came out with a new MI with MI2 level complexity and humor, people would still find excuses to hate it.
If they used SCUMM and the old graphics... I wouldn't complain one bit.
Originally posted by Schmatz
If they used SCUMM and the old graphics... I wouldn't complain one bit.
So is that the problem? Sound like hopeless purism.
Originally posted by Squinkee
Was there a huge outrage when MI2 came out?
No one answered this! Honestly MI2 is quite a bit different than the first one, so there had to be some detractors...
Also, Meksilon, chill.
Originally posted by Squinkee
No one answered this! Honestly MI2 is quite a bit different than the first one, so there had to be some detractors...
Also, Meksilon, chill.
Nah, no huge outcry when MI2 was released. Probably 'cause it came out so close to MI1, with the original team, etc.
Yeah, kinda like the deal with the Lord of the Rings Trilogy. Next year the next one will be out, by the same creators, so it won't have a different effect on us. Same with MI1 and 2, but, once CMI comes, the team is scattered, and it's not the same (but I'm not complaining... I liked CMI). If, say, the next LoTR movie was made by a different director or a different group of special effects people, we would see differences between the two movies, such as characters may not look the same, etc. It's not the greatest way to compare, but I couldn't think of anything else :D
Originally posted by Trapezoid
But if they came out with a new MI with MI2 level complexity and humor, people would still find excuses to hate it.
Of course they would Trap, for instance it may have terrible graphics, sound, music.... but that being said there are thoes who hate The Secret of Monkey Island, theoes who hate it's sequal... and thoes who hate computer games all together.
=mek=
I love all MI games. And anyone who doesn't isn't a Monkey Island fan, but a Ron Gilbert fan. And that is totally unfair towards the people who have worked hard to create two wonderful sequels, and they actually succeeded!
heh, i thought i'd be yelled at for never playing mi2!
(thanks for not yelling)
maybe the reason for mi4 not being as detailed in some areas -ive never really played it before, im just going on what some people say- is because it was originally a 2d game.
have you ever seen a good movie that was originally a video game? (or vice versa?)
i know thats a horrible example, but im just saying, its hard to take something and use it in a different way and still be true to the original, expecially if you didnt make the original.
and for CMI
i liked CMI, i thought it looked great, and liked the style of it.
but i dont know how it carries on the story.
Originally posted by Haggis
I love all MI games. And anyone who doesn't isn't a Monkey Island fan, but a Ron Gilbert fan. And that is totally unfair towards the people who have worked hard to create two wonderful sequels, and they actually succeeded!
See Trap? This is the problem! I am NOT a "Ron Gilbert fan". Yes I think he was a very creative individual and one of the few great adventure game makers; but I am certainly not a fan of his work. I didn't like Maniac Mansion, I got sick of Loom, and I just happen to love Monkey Island.
You beleive to ba a Monkey Island fan you have to love and accept all the games. Well I can confidently say I'm quite a fan of Adam Sandler, but I absolutly hated Little Nicky, I thought it was the worst movie I have ever seen, I did not laugh once during the entire duration of the film, and I found it to be very Satanist. If I had it my way it would be banned in Austalia.
=mek=
Originally posted by Meksilon
See Trap? This is the problem! I am NOT a "Ron Gilbert fan". Yes I think he was a very creative individual and one of the few great adventure game makers; but I am certainly not a fan of his work. I didn't like Maniac Mansion, I got sick of Loom, and I just happen to love Monkey Island.
I didn't say that though. You're replying to Haggis.
Anyway, sure, you're a Monkey Island fan. But you're in the MI1-and-MI2 subdivision of MI fans. I'm in the All-of-Them subdivision. I'm far from alone, so obviously EMI and CMI have appeal that you're blind to. That's not an insult... I'm blind to the appeal of most drama movies. I'm sure I'm missing out on many classics.
You beleive to ba a Monkey Island fan you have to love and accept all the games. Well I can confidently say I'm quite a fan of Adam Sandler, but I absolutly hated Little Nicky, I thought it was the worst movie I have ever seen, I did not laugh once during the entire duration of the film, and I found it to be very Satanist. If I had it my way it would be banned in Austalia.
Don't equate CMI and EMI with Little Nicky. Now that's just insane.
Although I did think a few parts were funny. But it wasn't very Satanist, it was more of a parody of stereotypical Heaven and Hell. Oh well, I don't want to talk about Adam Sandler.
EMI wasn't that funny really. It's just the same few jokes repeated and stretched out. It tries too hard to be funny.
MI1 and MI2 only had really clever humour, and it was only put into places where it was appropriate. They didn't base the plot around the humour. They had a more serious plot, and the humour was outside the plot. At least CMI stayed true to that, mostly.
Another thing... MI1 and MI2 were more mysterious. They didn't reveal everything. You didn't know if Guybrush was a kid or not... you didn't know where Guybrush came from... You didn't know the reasons for various things happening. It allowed fans to theorize and have interesting conversations about it.
CMI went and explained everything, and I wasn't very satisfied by its explanations of the story up to that point. They just seemed too clichй. I, like many other fans, just see it as another 'theory', so we still talk about the first two games like CMI and EMI didn't happen.
EMI contradicted the other games. Beh.
why is my nick in the sig starred?!?!?!
MI1 and 2 had humour outside the plot because while Ron wrote the story, it was the other writers (Schafer et al) who worked on the jokes. Ron would read the jokes (Which didn't really have anything to do with the story) and stick them in, and it worked.
The problem with CMI was that LEC were obliged to resolve the end of MI2 so you could carry on a new story, this obviously hurts the plot. CMI's project leaders were the only ones really writing it, and both were doing the story, so there were no "dedicated" jokewriters. CMI captures the look though :)
Then along came EMI. EMI fails IMO because it doesn't do anything new, especially in terms of writing (jokes and story). Much of the jokewriting is salvaged from the previous games, and overused so it feels "thin". The reasons MI1 and MI2 are as they are, is becuase they didn't have to build on something past, but introduced something new. In EMI I would suppose LEC felt obliged to use the same jokes and running themes etc. Such is the price of a successful franchise :P
Originally posted by Twilo
MI1 and 2 had humour outside the plot because while Ron wrote the story, it was the other writers (Schafer et al) who worked on the jokes. Ron would read the jokes (Which didn't really have anything to do with the story) and stick them in, and it worked.
The problem with CMI was that LEC were obliged to resolve the end of MI2 so you could carry on a new story, this obviously hurts the plot. CMI's project leaders were the only ones really writing it, and both were doing the story, so there were no "dedicated" jokewriters. CMI captures the look though :)
Then along came EMI. EMI fails IMO because it doesn't do anything new, especially in terms of writing (jokes and story). Much of the jokewriting is salvaged from the previous games, and overused so it feels "thin". The reasons MI1 and MI2 are as they are, is becuase they didn't have to build on something past, but introduced something new. In EMI I would suppose LEC felt obliged to use the same jokes and running themes etc. Such is the price of a successful franchise :P
Well, I thought it was a very funny. I really can't see how the humor was "salvaged" from the previous games. CMI reused old jokes a lot more than EMI.
Well the most obvious example that comes to mind is the "That's the second biggest..." line. Any more you can find youself, I'm not in the mood to compile a list.
Originally posted by Twilo
The problem with CMI was that LEC were obliged to resolve the end of MI2 so you could carry on a new story, this obviously hurts the plot. CMI's project leaders were the only ones really writing it, and both were doing the story, so there were no "dedicated" jokewriters. CMI captures the look though :)
Actually, people like Chris Purvis (and others I can't think of right now) wrote a lot of the jokes for CMI, so if CMI's humour failed, the lack of writers wasn't the problem.
If they had sooooo much trouble (obviously they did because they started off CMI a bit ridiculous and ignorant) with continueing on the story after MI2...why didnt they do..
A Monkey Island episode that falls BETWEEN the Secret of Monkey Island and LeChuck's Revenge. You see because MI1 and 2 really don't connect to each other like its not possible to have a episode between it.
Also some things changed like with Elaine becoming Booty's governor and all. So they could think up something. That way they didn't have to deal with the whole carnival of the damned thing and they wouldve left Ron's ending alone.
But then again something else.. I think the ending of MI2 was not the intended ending. Somehow it doesn't fit with the rest of the game. Because its all so sudden. The game was made like; "oh guybrush is hanging there on a rope and everything but he has Big Whoop in his hand in a 'chest'" And then at the end the rope suddenly snaps and he falls. And then he's in that corridor system 'below the themepark'. But where's that whole chest he had? Where is Big Whoop? And I thought Big Whoop was something the four pirates of the map pieces had buried. Something physical. They brought it there and buried it there. And there was a chest. But when Guybrush falls the chest is gone. And suddenly the story wraps itself up quickly. A starwars take-off-my-mask joke and the story's explained. As if the creators were suddenly past a dead line and couldnt finish the game like they would like to, and chose for plan b; a quick ending. At least it seems to me that way...
So; they shouldve tried to make a third mi game BETWEEN mi1 and mi2 (looking back on it now i think we can be glad they didnt because the way they ignored history facts of mi they obviously wouldve confused a lot of people playing mi1 then the third mi and then mi2)
And the ending of MI2 looks like a 'quick' ending like it wasn't meant to be. That would explain the carneval looking like Booty's port. Because they didn't have much time to do a whole new scene. They had to wrap up quickly..
The chest didn't disappear... it was smashed up on the floor in the first room. There was an E ticket inside.
there was? hmmm...
/me quickly starts up mi2...
brb
still the ending wasnt very monkey island-ish. It happened and I only want to believe its a spell of LeChuck, cause I want to believe so hard that the whole world Guybrush adventured in was real. Not a themepark. *sniff*
hmm yes a ticket with an "E" on it....
what does it mean? an Escape ticket?
E tickets are real things, I think. At some theme park or something. Maybe Disneyland. I don't know what they are.
I don't think it was a curse from LeChuck... I think the theme park itself was cursed, which basically made all that stuff become real.
Another possibility is that there were portals and alternate realities.
The E tickets are something they used to have at Disney Land. I believe the letter indicated what kind of rides you could go on, or something along those lines.
Eureka!!
http://www.wdwinfo.com/wdwinfo/eticket.htm)
"E-Ticket nights are available only to Walt Disney World resort guests. For $12, resort guests can have access to the Magic Kingdom for 3 hours after closing to the general public. During E-Ticket nights, the most popular attractions at the Magic Kingdom remain open."
this is interesting! I always thought they said the Big Whoop was a way out of 'there'. But an e-ticket (Big Whoop treasure!) is a way to stay in the park a little longer after closing time!! So rather and escape its a way to enjoy it for a bit longer!!!
Big Whoop!
Plus this.....
Elaine: "I hope LeChuck didn't put a horrible SPELL on him"
so Guybrush finds Big Whoop, can enjoy being a pirate a little longer (because he likes imagining being a pirate since he ran off into the theme park) So that would be the ultimate thing he could get; to spend some MORE time. And then LeChuck puts a 'spell' on him! Which is that he is brought to his parents (you help your brother back on your feet, and he gets and brings you to your parents, who then take you home"
Big Whoop is the treasure of being in the park longer!
whooooooo i love this =]
yes, well a fantasy, imaginary fantasy thoughts while he was walking by himself through the rides of the theme park =]
"Come beat the swordmaster! Hey there you kiddo, why don't you try it" ...... "And the kid wins! Here you go son, have this fantastic tshirt!"
that kinda stuff shows it is a real world, mixed with guybrush' fantasy =]
now i kind of like MI2's ending....now its fit with the rest of the whole games =]
big whoop! :D
:thread goes RIGHT over Schmatz's head:
I'm lost :confused:
what is it you can't follow? :) its so clear! :D
Originally posted by QueZTone
Plus this.....
Elaine: "I hope LeChuck didn't put a horrible SPELL on him"Just to confuse you, Elaine doesn't say this in the Amiga version of MI2. Obviously LucasArts realised that you dumb PC-owners would need spoon-feeding... ;)
No, I think LucasArts figured Amiga owners deserved a more hopeless feeling ending and shiatty graphics. :P
Originally posted by Trapezoid
No, I think LucasArts figured Amiga owners deserved a more hopeless feeling ending and shiatty graphics. :P
... but we got a lot better music...
The problem with saying that LeChuck put a spell on Guybrush is that it makes no sense. Why place a spell on him when he can just kill him? He's suposed to be the most feared pirate ever, and this wannabe KILLS him, and what does he do? He puts him in some 'Carnival of the Damned' for eternity, but with the slight problem of the fact that its escapable. Right. To me, it makes more sense that Guybrush kinda imagined it all.
That reminds me; a problem with EMI. LeChuck is so pathetic. He would never be anyones right hand man.
I think Tim Schafer is the best at making adventure games, but that has nothing to do with the fact that I like MI1 and 2 more than 3 and 4.
Perhaps the spell = parents. Guybrush getting pulled out of his fantasy.
I still like the theory with the portals/separate dimensions. When Guybrush fell into the darkness on Dinky Island, he fell through a portal and was transported to this surreal nexus of portals that was the underground tunnels. It explains how the elevator just a few rooms away could take him to Melee Island.
The portals/dimensions aren't a sci-fi wormhole type of thing... they're surreal fantasy stuff. When Guybrush made the potion thing in the big pot on the ship, he caused the ship to cross over to the Monkey Island dimension.
The problem with this theory is that it's too far-fetched. There's not really enough evidence for it.
hehe
LeChuck doesnt really want to kill Guybrush. Chuck's Guybrush older brother and he merely wants to get Guybrush and bring him back to their parents...so the "killing" part what LeChuck wants is really bringing him back to his parents. But Guybrush is enjoying himself so much in his imagination he doesn't want to leave the park.
And Wally is also a lost kid who's imagining. That's why LeChuck 'kidnapped' him too. He captured them so that Guybrush was brought back to their parents and Wally was also brought back to his parents..
that's all my opinion anyway =]
[and yes LeChuck was a wimp in EMI, he'd never be a right hand man, but then again, eventually he wasnt]
Flirb, that's what i meant with my earlier posts. I'll repost..
Guybrush, Chuckie and their parents go to this theme park. Guybrush wanders off. Loves the pirate theme and starts imagining things. He would love to be living in the world that is created in the theme park. He would love to be a pirate! (start of SMI). In the park are several things the children can participate in. "Win the swordmaster and win a nice prize, hey you kiddo, whats your name?" "Guybrush is it? Ahh wanna fight the swordmaster?" "Here you go son, wonderful fight, have this nice tshirt". Vendingmachines etc are there because he's really wandering in a themepark though he's imagining stuff.
Now then his parents notice Guybrush is gone and Chuckie as older brother has to find him and bring him back to his parents. Guybrush doesn't want to leave the park, he wants to stay. So this goose chase between Guybrush and LeChuck starts.
**In MI2 Guybrush meets Wally. Another kid who loves the pirate theme. He also wandered off. Eventually Chuckie finds Guybrush and also Wally. He 'kidnaps' them to the 'Lost Kids' Fortress for their parents to pick them up. Guybrush and Wally manage to escape**
So at some point in MI2 Guybrush hears of this treasure with unimaginable wealth. Of course since Guybrush loves the park; the treasure that would be worth most would be to stay in the park for longer! So he goes treasure hunting and finally finds that treasure named Big Whoop. It turns out to be a chest, which contains an E-Ticket. An E-Ticket? Yes a way to be in the park even after closing time! Wow.
But then Chuckie his older brother comes and finds him. They struggle and finally Guybrush somehow manages to floor Chuckie. Guybrush gets a bit of mercy and helps his brother back on his feet. Chuckie grabs Guybrush and puts a horrible 'spell' on Guybrush. Oh no, Guybrush left his fantasy world. He had to leave. Everything slowly became real again, and then Guybrush was back with his parents...
That is probably the best explanation that I have heard so far. Its plausable, and doesn't imply that there was a huge 5-game story planned out right from the start. Well done, 5 merit points.
Queztone, I totally agree.
Your theory is pretty much the ideas I have been thinking of. I just didn't get it all together untill someone else wrote it all down.. Thaks, man.
I also remember reading somewhere that Ron Gilbert said that MI2 was the last game, so I really believe that MI was supposed to end with MI2 and there was no other secret or anything like that.
Originally posted by Mr. Teliot
Queztone, I totally agree.
Your theory is pretty much the ideas I have been thinking of. I just didn't get it all together untill someone else wrote it all down.. Thaks, man.
I also remember reading somewhere that Ron Gilbert said that MI2 was the last game, so I really believe that MI was supposed to end with MI2 and there was no other secret or anything like that.
It was originally supposed to be one game, but at later dates, he said it was meant as a triology. Make of that what you want.
There's way too much foreshadowing at the end though... Electric eyes, LeChuck theme, etc... Perhaps Ron intended make it seem like it was all just a kid imagining stuff. Just to trick us. It was still very much a cliffhanger in all respects and obviously Ron had something in mind for a MI3. Maybe the pirate world was just as real as the carnival.
yeah but Ron based it on Pirates of the Caribbean, he had been in the ride and enjoyed imagining being a pirate for a moment...
Maybe Ron had no idea what he wanted to do and wanted to leave his options open.
Originally posted by Trapezoid
There's way too much foreshadowing at the end though... Electric eyes, LeChuck theme, etc... Perhaps Ron intended make it seem like it was all just a kid imagining stuff. Just to trick us. It was still very much a cliffhanger in all respects and obviously Ron had something in mind for a MI3. Maybe the pirate world was just as real as the carnival.
The foreshadowing was just part of the fantasy. It implied that the fantasy isn't over... That there's going to be a sequel. Not that LeChuck is real.
Originally posted by QueZTone
Flirb, that's what i meant with my earlier posts. I'll repost..
Guybrush, Chuckie and their parents go to this theme park. Guybrush wanders off. Loves the pirate theme and starts imagining things. He would love to be living in the world that is created in the theme park. He would love to be a pirate! (start of SMI). In the park are several things the children can participate in. "Win the swordmaster and win a nice prize, hey you kiddo, whats your name?" "Guybrush is it? Ahh wanna fight the swordmaster?" "Here you go son, wonderful fight, have this nice tshirt". Vendingmachines etc are there because he's really wandering in a themepark though he's imagining stuff.
Now then his parents notice Guybrush is gone and Chuckie as older brother has to find him and bring him back to his parents. Guybrush doesn't want to leave the park, he wants to stay. So this goose chase between Guybrush and LeChuck starts.
**In MI2 Guybrush meets Wally. Another kid who loves the pirate theme. He also wandered off. Eventually Chuckie finds Guybrush and also Wally. He 'kidnaps' them to the 'Lost Kids' Fortress for their parents to pick them up. Guybrush and Wally manage to escape**
So at some point in MI2 Guybrush hears of this treasure with unimaginable wealth. Of course since Guybrush loves the park; the treasure that would be worth most would be to stay in the park for longer! So he goes treasure hunting and finally finds that treasure named Big Whoop. It turns out to be a chest, which contains an E-Ticket. An E-Ticket? Yes a way to be in the park even after closing time! Wow.
But then Chuckie his older brother comes and finds him. They struggle and finally Guybrush somehow manages to floor Chuckie. Guybrush gets a bit of mercy and helps his brother back on his feet. Chuckie grabs Guybrush and puts a horrible 'spell' on Guybrush. Oh no, Guybrush left his fantasy world. He had to leave. Everything slowly became real again, and then Guybrush was back with his parents...
/me claps.
Almost exactly what I've been thinking for some time. Though you did make me think... The Voodoo lady told Guybrush that in order to defeat LeChuck, he had to find Big Whoop. What she meant by that is, having the E-ticket would allow him to stay in the theme park longer... when it closes up, the staff wouldn't make Guybrush leave. Chuckie didn't have an E-ticket, so he would be kicked out of the theme park. Guybrush would be rid of LeChuck! Seems that it didn't quite work, though... He was pulled out of the fantasy, but with his parents, he was safe from LeChuck.
This brings me to why I don't accept CMI and EMI as true Monkey Island games. If we did, we couldn't have this conversation.
Sumez just reminded me... Dinky Island and Monkey Island are the same thing. I don't know how or even if this relates to the theme park thing, but it's definitely interesting.
Wasn't the Dinky/Monkey island connection made in CMI though?