Wind always goes AWAY from its starting
point for 180.[put a LOT of zeros here] 1 degrees around the Earth, the heads straight TOWARDS where it started.

[Happy?]
------------------
Name: HiddenTalon
Email: HiddenTalon@mail.com
Occupation: Crashing virtual X-Wings
Webpage: www.scabmaps.cjb.net) (http://www.scabmaps.cjb.net)
=) (http://www.fungrams.com/haha.html)
Don't click on Mr. Smiley!



[This message has been edited by HiddenTalon (edited July 13, 2000).]

Umm, HiddenTalon, could you abbreviate that so we don't have to scroll sideways? Thanks, hu-man. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/smile.gif)

"The wind goes where it is wanted."

At least, that's the scientific view. Wind is nothing more than air moving to balance low pressure with high. This interplay of pressure in our atmosphere is generated by the sun's heat warming (and expanding) different areas as the Earth turns. Underlying landscape mean temperature gradients and seasonal temperature fluctuations play their part...but essentially, the wind is just getting 'sucked' into low pressure cells.

This notion of attacking koans scientifically is totally un-zen, BTW. I just thought I'd point that out before someone else does. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/rolleyes.gif) It is, however, our approach, and I think it a valid effort.

Anyone else have a different take on the wind koan? It could be so many different things, depending on what the wind stands for... http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/wink.gif)



------------------
"I sought the true nature of reality but discovered instead the real nature of truth."

--Thrustweasel of Earth

Not until I DON'T have to scroll over to read every thing. Abreviate it HIDDEN TALON! Now!

Wind and air is what makes airplanes fly. Yep. Wind's sole purpose is to make air planes fly. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/wink.gif)

One thing is for certain; the wind is not there to be broken...!

Okay. Totally new approach. Instead of working on modern, westernized koans, let's try out some real, Japanese ones. I've recently read The Gateless Gate, a classic collection of zen koans, and there were a few there that I thought might bring this topic back to life.

In the more authentic zen tradition, these koans will point directly at a subject which cannot be described with words. Rather than finding the answer to the riddle (if it's even phrased as one), the point is to walk up to, and around, that indescribable zen something, exploring with words as far as we can. If anyone asks me what zen is, I will smack them in the head with a stick. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/smile.gif)

I am paraphrasing these koans, but this is not my work.

The Wheel:

Keichu the wheelmaker was teaching his apprentice one day. He held up one of his finished wheels, one with fifty spokes. He said, "Suppose that I removed the nave uniting the spokes. What would become of the wheel? And if I did this, could I be called the master wheelmaker?"

http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/biggrin.gif)

If the wheel-maker removes the nave then it would no longer be considered a wheel because every bit of that wheel is what makes up that wheel. If one piece is removed or broken then it is no longer a wheel but something else. I suppose you could call it a bunch of spokes and a rim, or a broken wheel, but even a broken wheel is not a wheel. Example, if a planet was destroyed then in wouldn't be a planet anymore, it would only be so much space junk.
So what the koan is trying to teach us is that we should work together and unite for the greater good. If one person does not pull his weight for the wheel(society) then he/she begins to slow down the rest of the wagon, then that part must be either replaced or the rest of the wheel must work harder to make up for the other parts imperfection.
And as for the wheel-maker(the government) if he does not shape the wheel right and keep it well oiled and taken care of then the wheel will colapse. And so the wheel-maker(government) would no longer be considered a wheel-maker because there would be no more wheels to make, or rather no more country to govern.

Oh and I went painballing today, it was fun, I have many bruises, but it was worth it, just reporting back as ordered.

------------------
Uhh, any suggestions?

Just one...instead of looking at the wheel, try thinking like one. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/biggrin.gif)

A wheel, in this case (Buddhist symbology) representing the universe's cyclical nature, is taken to have a circular nature. No beginning, no end...but supported by the nave (or hub if you will) and its spokes. The phenomenal plane can be compared to the wheel in this case, and the spokes to what the easterners call the gunas (a guna is supposed to be one of the primal forces physically sustaining the universe.)

When looked at in this way, what does the nave become? And what of the wheelmaker who could build a wheel without one? http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/biggrin.gif)

Okay. Here is another authentic koan, and simply another approach from another angle at this 'zen' thing. Call it this:

Moving or not?

Two monks were arguing about a flag that was flapping on a pole nearby, when their master came upon them.

'The flag is moving,' insisted one.

'No, it is the wind which is moving,' said the other.

'The flag is not moving,' said the master, 'nor is the wind; mind is moving.'

At this, the two monks were suddenly enlightened, and all three could see that he, too, was wrong.

(From a 4000 year old Sanskrit text called 'Centering') "Look upon some object. Then, slowly withdraw your sight from it...then, slowly withdraw your thought from it. Then."

Fine. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/mad.gif) We still don't know what is moving--!

(This one is an original.)

Zen for cats

My kitty Bebee (pronounced 'Bay-bay') enjoys the benefits of motherhood, which in my house include both dry and 'yummy' food for her nutritional needs.

When she has weaned the kittens, Bebee must return to the dry food diet. She doesn't use words like us, so I cannot tell her why this is so. The truth I must impart to her is beyond her ability to communicate...so I must use zen on her. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/smile.gif)

I will give her a small bowl of dry food which she must eat in order to receive the yummy food. Each day, this amount of dry food will grow larger, until she has no more appetite for the yummy food when it it presented to her.

Hopefully then she will need no more yummy food from me.

http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/biggrin.gif)

------------------
"I sought the true nature of reality but discovered instead the real nature of truth."

--Thrustweasel of Earth

I tried that on my pet Raptor.(it was grass)
And he bit my hand off!
And ripped out a rib http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/biggrin.gif)

------------------
I rule this ocean with an iron fist,an iron tail, and for that matter an iron everything-Metalseadramon

I used to have a cat. He would skrit in the 'center' of his sand. Does that mean my cat had the Zen thing down? http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/smile.gif)

Actually, it sounds like the raptor has a better grasp of zen. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/biggrin.gif)

The evil Vulcans from my universe have their own kind of 'dark zen.' The following is a koan from my own native tradition. Prostrate thee in humble awe of my beneficiance, little humans.

Too many masters

The very hottest part of Vulcan, called 'The Forge,' is also the location of the Kolinahr monastery. One day, three great masters of Kolinahr were gathered at a cliffside meditation shrine, observing the desert far below.

'Behold the sky,' said the first master. 'It is not the world. This is truth.'

'You have the rind,' commented the eldest master.

The first master looked pleased, but the second had this to say: 'Behold the sky. It is the other side of my self. This is truth.'

'You have the melon,' said the old master.

The first master thought long on this, and then pushed the old master off of the cliff face. The old Vulcan fell screaming to his death on jagged rocks below as the two others quietly watched from their perch.

'I wish it would rain,' said the second Kolinahr master.

------------------
"Beware the bearded one."

Right, Vulcan zen is very conmfusing indeed.

http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/biggrin.gif) A brief zen treatise: Anahata shabda (the unstruck sound)

Sound is not physical,
nor is it of the mind.

It does not perish,
but conjoins onto other forms.

In this lies its power.
Listen:

This may not have anything to do with the other post but i'll say it anyway.

Every sound has a form...

<font size=15>AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
!!!!!!!!!!</font>
<font size=20>BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!</font>
There went the strategy section... http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/biggrin.gif)

------------------
Mission Accepted...<font size=-2>

[This message has been edited by Lujayne (edited July 31, 2000).]

The stratagy section? <font size=9>Nooooooooo!!!!!!!!!
<font size=2>How could you?!!

<font size=1>scrolling.
Management

[This message has been edited by Lt Cracken (edited July 19, 2000).]

Commander 598, you have almost made an enlightened statemement. Let us look at what you said, and see if we can winnow down to the kernel of truth. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/smile.gif)

"Every sound has a form."

Well, not every sound can be said to have form...remember, being simple monkeys we don't have the ability to know all sound. We just know those sounds which fall within our range of hearing.

...And those we happen to perceive. Do I hear a tree crashing somewhere? http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/wink.gif)

The concept of anahata shabda is an ancient (as evidenced by the Sanskrit language used) notion in Tantric teachings, which influenced Hindu beliefs, which influenced Buddhism, which evolved the practice of zen. What is it? Simply stick your fingers in your ears and you will hear it...and it is a sound without form.*

However, most sounds do have form, and this is a key insight, Commander. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/smile.gif) When we hear a sound, our conscious thoughts register the sound's interpreted meaning as well as the actual vibrations involved; it is in this interpretation that distortion can occur. By being aware of the form of a sound, we can get to its true nature and sidestep our own second-guessing. In this case, that form would be created by the strategy section blowing up.

That's okay. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/biggrin.gif) I hardly ever go there, anyway...

*<font size=1>When you do this, rather than hearing nothing, you should hear a faint, barely-perceptible tone just on the edge of hearing. This sound can be manipulated with practice, and is frequently heard by meditators as 'the music of the spheres.'</font>

------------------
"I sought the true nature of reality but discovered instead the real nature of truth."

--Thrustweasel of Earth

Bad little side-scrolling humans! To the dust mines!

------------------
"Beware the bearded one."

Nobody asked you!!!!! http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/biggrin.gif)
Oh and every sound does have a form http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/tongue.gif)
I heard it in a movie(Dune)
I saw it to.
And the same time the Strategy section blew up a At-At outside my base blew up.

------------------
Mission Accepted...

You do realize just how absolute a term 'every' is, don't you? Defend yourself! (Philosophically. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/smile.gif)

I know what I mean when I say that a sound has a form, and it's the same thing Frank Herbert was talking about in Dune. When you close your eyes and concentrate just on one sound, deliberately shutting down thoughts about it and experiencing it directly, that sound takes on a mental 'shape' that is distinctive. A bongo drum, for example, sounds round...while the crack of a baseball bat is clearly a sharp sliver of a sound. Unfortunately, Frank Herbert was writing a science fiction novel rather than trying to establish useful and factual mystic doctrine, and he would not take the additional time to think through a statement such as 'every sound has a form.'

So. Who do you believe on this? Me or Frank Herbert? http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/wink.gif) Try for yourself to hear anahata shabda (earplugs help) and come to your own conclusions. Does that sound have form, or does it change tone and timbre dependent upon the listener's perception? You may find yourself chasing that sound's form into the sky itself...

HO! *Smack!* http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/biggrin.gif)

Feel free to argue with me on this. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/smile.gif) Philosophical debate can be fun.

------------------
"I sought the true nature of reality but discovered instead the real nature of truth."

--Thrustweasel of Earth

I would rather agree with you since I know you better than Frank Herbert. I have known you for about 4 months and Frank Herbert- hardly even know the guy so I guess it is settled with me. I agree with myself. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/biggrin.gif)

I believe I've saved this topic before. This is a cool topic though.

I think every sound is original at one time, then it mixes with other sounds and gets twisted and distorted. We as humans cannot pick out certain sounds and we lack the words to describe many sounds. I think it is possible that some powerful being created these crude bodys as a prison to block us from learning the truth and becoming enlightened.

I would also like to state that I can't stand people that believe themselves to be the greatest things on this earth, for they are fools and most likely the lowest ones here. Especially since on this sound subject dogs are more enlightened than we are.

I just had a sad thought....... Now that Imladil is gone, who gonna make the Zens?

I feal so lost and empty without our zen master.

Me too, I think we should devote a minute to him. The man who we knew ever since entering the forum.

Perhaps it is time for the students to become the masters.

Yes...... It is sad. He was like a father to us all here at the forum. No one can ever replace him. He shall be missed.....

I hope he's over in the corner watchin' us talk about him....laughin' his A%^#* off!!!

------------------
VERY FUNNY SCOTTY, now please beam down my PANTS!!!

Right then, I will start up the old zen koans with this one.....

What is the meaning of life?

First, if he is laughing. That would just be a cruel joke to all of us......

True. I haven't formed a concrete opinion on whether I would care if he was laughing or not. I know you folks will probably Bar-B-Que me, but if he had a strong difference of opinion with one of us I wish he'd come on out and at least SPAM the skunk....Just doesn't sound like our pal Imladil to skulk off into the digital dark. Which leads me to wonder if he's physically alright.

We must have a meeting about this in the chat room some time.