Interesting Interview with Lead Writer Daniel Erickson about the New Force user Classes, Tanks and Healers, and a few titbit's about Revan and malak :)

Clicky (http://gameinformer.com/games/star_wars_the_old_republic/m/star_wars_the_old_republic_media/108340.aspx)

Delicious Sith peanut butter. Too bad we don't know what happened to Revan after KotOR. =/

Don't fall to the dark side of the Sandwich, Luke!
I'm not sure about this, I mean, it brought nothing new and didn't really get any theories to extenguish or enchance their probability.

The lead writer doesn't know a damn what he's talking about; Revan was never an "emissary" for the True Sith. Revan called himself and the Republic forces under his command "Sith" to usurp the Republic's dominion, in an effort to build a strong, central government to withstand the eventual True Sith onslaught. Honestly, I hope that Mr. Erickson only misspoke, as his statement equates to a retcon of KotOR 2 proper, save the True Sith concept.

^ I noticed that too and im pretty sure Revan and malak only found the star forge, even If they were emissarys im pretty sure malak would have said something about that when he was tellling you, you were Revan.

Would be kinda lame if Revan turned out to be bad...

I'm firewalled from looking at any type of gaming site. If this is a text interview, would someone mind pasting it here?

I'm afraid it's a video, but another thread on the same topic is in the SWK section of the forums (in the Unknown Regions) that has some people quoting it. You'll also see some more strongly opinionated thoughts there. ;)

What I don't think the developers are understanding is that a Jedi Consular is a Jedi Knight. It's a specialized office within the rank. The way they describe the Jedi Knight sounds more like a Jedi Guardian. For this reason, I hope they change the name, offering classes such as "Jedi Knight: Guardian" and "Jedi Knight: Consular."

Also, the only way I can see Revan, Malak and their followers (just the dark Force users, not the foot soldiers) not being "real Sith" is if they did not have the Sith they conquered on Korriban ordain then into their lineage. You see, we know from The Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide that Revan and Malak declared themselves the Lords of the Sith before going to Korriban and conquering what remained of Exar Kun's Sith (and Kun, in turn, was ordained a Sith by the spirit of Marka Ragnos, making him of the same unbroken line of succession). That would mean that Revan and Malak were indeed self-proclaimed Sith in name only at the point of their declaration. Once they conquered Kun's Sith (who truly were true Sith), if they wanted those titles to be valid, they would have had to have forced one of the Sith Lords they conquered to ordain them into their dark order, and then go on to rule over them, Revan being a true Dark Lord. If this did not happen and Kun's Sith were merely destroyed, then yes, Revan and his followers were not Sith.

This, in turn, would mean that the only "true Sith" within the Sith Triumvirate in The Sith Lords was Darth Sion, since the KOTOR Guide says that he originally served under Exar Kun. No wonder the dude was pissed off all the time: he had to bow down to Traya, and then Nihilus, both of whom were "fake Sith."

Anyway, I theorize that if they are going down this particular road, that it will be from the "true Sith Empire" that the line of succession from Ruin to Bane to Palpatine will come, and not from Revan's. Although that makes it sort of problematic because Revan was the primary person responsible for Bane's shaping of the Rule of Two, and Bane even praised Revan as a "true Sith."

Anyway, those are my musings for this evening. Kudos to anyone who has the faintest clue as to what I'm talking about.

Yet another basket for my theory that they are basically going to ignore most of Sith Lords.

I have a hard time accepting Revan as a pet hound for the Sith Emperor.

It's possible that Revan came back to the known galaxy, said '**** that ****,' and proceeded to take over the Republic for himself. Mayhaps he actually did the whole 'leave the Republic in fighting condition' thing so he could take on the Sith Lords when they eventually decided to go after him.

Revan actually has multiple personality disorder and "Revan" and "Sith Emperor" are one and the same.

Revan actually has multiple personality disorder and "Revan" and "Sith Emperor" are one and the same. Okay, that I'd buy.

I don't think Erikson actually played either game tbh lol, and his questionable history lesson lends itself to this (What seems to be a) Re-launch of all parts of Star Wars for a not in the know fan base. But, the game itself will tell the tale.

Also, He seemed like he was caught off guard with the Revan subject, as he stuttered, and his story changed a bit from start to finish, ie; Revan and Malak were sith, then they werent then they were... I think he was probobly just trying to Big-up the characters in HIS Story, unfortunately at the expense of ours :)

I don't like the idea of Revan being the Sith Emperor. It sort of undermines the light side ending to KOTOR and all he fought for if he just falls to the dark side and rules over the Sith again.

People need to get off of their Revan fetish, I think. They want him to be this super person who is responsible for, and involved in, absolutely everything. I think that's quite cheesy, if you ask me.

I must have missed the part about Revan and Malak serving the Emperor when I typed up my last post, but I actually don't really have much of a problem with this (mainly because I was never a Revan groupie and always thought he was a bit overrated, actually liking Malak better), and it may actually solve the problem I mentioned of the whole true-Sith-false-Sith. Revan and Malak may have been ordained as Sith by the Emperor, and the Revan, and Malak after him, were only puppet Dark Lords in service to the big Dark Lord of the Sith: the Emperor.

I don't like the idea of Revan being the Sith Emperor. It sort of undermines the light side ending to KOTOR and all he fought for if he just falls to the dark side and rules over the Sith again.

People need to get off of their Revan fetish, I think. They want him to be this super person who is responsible for, and involved in, absolutely everything. I think that's quite cheesy, if you ask me.

I must have missed the part about Revan and Malak serving the Emperor when I typed up my last post, but I actually don't really have much of a problem with this (mainly because I was never a Revan groupie and always thought he was a bit overrated, actually liking Malak better), and it may actually solve the problem I mentioned of the whole true-Sith-false-Sith. Revan and Malak may have been ordained as Sith by the Emperor, and the Revan, and Malak after him, were only puppet Dark Lords in service to the big Dark Lord of the Sith: the Emperor.
^ That. Stories adapt in this universe. We've seen it time and time again. I'm OK with Bioware re-writing, slightly, what Bioware wrote in the first place.

^ That. Stories adapt in this universe. We've seen it time and time again. I'm OK with Bioware re-writing, slightly, what Bioware wrote in the first place.Ah, no. The entire "True Sith" concept; the ultimate motives of Revan; etc., were all written by Obsidian for KotOR 2. Therefore, it's already been established as canon, and for the past five years now, to boot. So... it would would constitute a retcon, and one of someone else's contribution to an intellectual property, without the author's consent or approval.

Isn't the whole canon thing in the hands of Lucas Arts. IIRC, the whole Lucas mostly keeps a close eye on what gets written and drawn.

Doesn't each game, comic & book pass a certain "test";before launching it.
Its really strange, they don't care about it anymore.

Its just painfull when a franchise needs retcons and reboots. Just creates a reall mess.
Plus its doublely painfull to hear, that in most vids Bioware so far released, music of TSL gets used a lot!

Really each vid so far had a few melodies taken from TSL, next to the usuall tones of the films.

That just kind of sits wrong with me, they ditch the whole story and background of TSL, but can rip the music? pppffff...

EDIT: What's the most disturbing of this rewrite is that's kinda lame. But, I'll keep bying optimistic.
To early to go, bitch, moan and whine, for something that isn't released.

Ah man...the Revan fanboys will be SO pissed that he was serving someone else.

This does...ruin the Kotor 1 story and feel though :(
I had hoped the game would, some months into the story, release a content patch in which you trail Revan's story back to the source and receive some nice story items (Telos Survivor Band anyone? Taris Duelling Champion Crown etc) and a raid instance where some Dark Side cult is worshipping Revan.

Something NOT ruining Revan but rather enforcing he was important BUT gone in this game.
This ruins Revan and shows he was just a pawn of what you are fighting now.

Isn't the whole canon thing in the hands of Lucas Arts. IIRC, the whole Lucas mostly keeps a close eye on what gets written and drawn.

Doesn't each game, comic & book pass a certain "test";before launching it.
Its really strange, they don't care about it anymore.

I think Lucas has either lost some of this control or is slacking off, particularly in the case of an MMO, which by nature is hard to keep canon, and with the kid-oriented "Clone Wars" series. I have always praised Lucas for trying to keep most things canon, when most major series don't even bother. But of late I think he's been backing off or his company has pushed him back in order to just make more money.

And you would think that sticking to canon would be more important in the days of Wookieepedia, where it's all right there and easily accessible. Give it what credibility you want, but a lot of people use (and cite) that site.

I think Lucas has either lost some of this control or is slacking off, particularly in the case of an MMO, which by nature is hard to keep canon, and with the kid-oriented "Clone Wars" series. I have always praised Lucas for trying to keep most things canon, when most major series don't even bother. But of late I think he's been backing off or his company has pushed him back in order to just make more money.

He's always been 'hands off' with the EU, having relatively little to do with canon beyond the Films and TV Series. He might drop in a word from time to time, but I think it's mostly up to Lucas Licensing.

"I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."

Although I do believe he's consulted over the big decisions (such as the death of main characters from the film).

I think it's mostly up to Lucas Licensing.


Ah, yes, its those people I mean :p

I always thought the EU of Star Wars was rather nicely done, because there where so few retcons and odd bits in it. It all hangs together in a nice way.

Though I guess that has made way for the cash cow now. But I'll keep half an eye open on this game, it could be this person is just talking "crap", as he's not allowed to say much.

I'm sure Bioware has some other top-dogs that keep watch, to ensure decent quality. Anyway, if it turns out bad, nobody forces me to play it or believe this is the true story.

There is far far less retcon trouble than people believe... People just google "EU" and get blogs bitchin about Convoluted timelines and retcon, 80% of retcon is due to GL changing his films and plot points (Ruusan Reformation (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ruusan_Reformation#Behind_the_scenes)) or making Cartoons in era's already covered (His prerogative, but still).

Revan, Although Property of Lucas, is still Biowares invention, and they are back as holders of the Contract again, so, Not Ideal (And still questionable, as the game isn't out yet) but kinda moot... Obsidian and Avellone are a non factor

adamqd has a point. Bioware created Revan and Malak. It is their creation that got messed with by TSL. Revan got turned into a different animal by TSL. In fact the whole story of TSL kind of seems out of whack with Star Wars canon. So Bioware retconning TSL out is ok I guess... Still would have liked to see them actually DO the story from the point of after TSL. But since Revan was their creation and Revan was just thrown out as a name drop in TSL, It seems fitting that Bioware resurect him and redo his story.

Kinda sad but not terribly so. My excitement for the game has dropped a bit, but I still want to try it out.

Yes, a good point. But IMO TSL was a great game, that brought a nice depth to SW.
Its kinda sad Bioware just flushes it out, well, I wouldn't be so bugged by it, if it got replaced by something good. Or better.

But after reading that, I'm not so impressed, so I've got more doubts now if this game is going to be as good, as other Bioware things.

I've got to disagree with you guys regarding the quality of The Sith Lord's story. I think it was very well done and may have even been better than the first game's story had they had time to finish the game (which was LucasArts' fault, mind you, not Obsidian's), but the very different storytelling style ended up becoming really messed up once they were suddenly forced to wrap it all up in just a few months. I don't think it is that far of a departure from Star Wars canon as Star Wars has become a boiling pot for many different types of storytelling methods, from lighthearted to very, very dark (there's even a horror novel out now, which contains lots of gore that you most certainly would not see in one of the films).

So, while it may be true that they are glazing over The Sith Lords' story, they certainly are not overriding it. After all, the whole idea of having this other mysterious faction of Sith working from the Shadows that Revan had come upon in his journeys is clearly inspired by the "true Sith" mentioned by Kriea. In fact, I believe that one of the timeline videos even mentions that the "true Sith Empire had returned." (As an aside, I am getting really tired of hearing - or reading - that term mentioned among fans, so I hope what ever they are called in The Old Republic sticks in everyone's minds and replaces the now annoying title of "true Sith.")

So yeah, they're obviously using a idea from the second game quite heavily - indeed, the idea, the one mystery that has kept fans waiting for answers for years.

Actually I think I remember the "true Sith" was given mention in the first game's loading screens.

As for the big problem with Obsidian's story, it's the same problem I have with other Obsidian stories. The ending. And ya can't tell me that if they were given more time the ending wouldn't have been so bad. I mean NWN2 had a similarly dissapointing ending. It also had the whole wiping out of the Jedi thing which was a pretty big retcon in itself. I also personally hated how they turned Revan into some sort of Sith GOD. He was strong enough in the first one. Then Obsidian decided to make him into some super being.

Actually I think I remember the "true Sith" was given mention in the first game's loading screens.

It was.

As for the big problem with Obsidian's story, it's the same problem I have with other Obsidian stories. The ending. And ya can't tell me that if they were given more time the ending wouldn't have been so bad. I mean NWN2 had a similarly dissapointing ending.

Granted. But the story would have been better. LA did cut Obsidian's produciton time from 36 months to 12 months.

It also had the whole wiping out of the Jedi thing which was a pretty big retcon in itself.
While true, I see little else by which a second KOTOR could have been made. L.A. wanted it in the first place, Obsidian was only doing their bidding. *shrug*
I also personally hated how they turned Revan into some sort of Sith GOD. He was strong enough in the first one. Then Obsidian decided to make him into some super being.
I can agree there--Exile seemed upstaged that entire game by Revan's previous accomplishments, *and* by Kreia the whole game. It still seemed like it was all about Revan and that was kind of insulting to the character. Still if Revan were relegated to *a mention* would'nt that have had the effect on the other side of things that they were "too easily invalidating" Revan by basically putting him on the back of the shelf?

I suppose it's just as well but I still think they could have made TOR without crunching TSL. Just my opinion, my friend.

It was.
Thanks, I was pretty sure it was... Just needed verification.


Granted. But the story would have been better. LA did cut Obsidian's produciton time from 36 months to 12 months.
I disagree here. I think it might have been longer, and possibly had those missing scenes back. But at the time Obsidian didn't exactly have a track record of good endings. It may have been more polished. but if you give Avelone more time he makes the story longer and slaps a roughshod ending on it.

While true, I see little else by which a second KOTOR could have been made. L.A. wanted it in the first place, Obsidian was only doing their bidding. *shrug*
LA wanted the Jedi wiped out?

I can agree there--Exile seemed upstaged that entire game by Revan's previous accomplishments, *and* by Kreia the whole game. It still seemed like it was all about Revan and that was kind of insulting to the character. Still if Revan were relegated to *a mention* would'nt that have had the effect on the other side of things that they were "too easily invalidating" Revan by basically putting him on the back of the shelf?
Well they also kinda kicked Revan out of the Galaxy anyway. Threw him right outta the known universe. (S)He was only a remnant. But built up into godly status. Then thrown out. So they did both. The character you played was in Revan's shadow. and he was nowhere to be seen(save the one scene in that place... vague to avoid spoiler).

I suppose it's just as well but I still think they could have made TOR without crunching TSL. Just my opinion, my friend.
As I noted, I would rather they hadn't squashed TSL. But it just don't see it as too much of a loss if they do.

I disagree here. I think it might have been longer, and possibly had those missing scenes back. But at the time Obsidian didn't exactly have a track record of good endings. It may have been more polished. but if you give Avelone more time he makes the story longer and slaps a roughshod ending
on it.

No I mean the story itself, I was conceding the on the ending actually b/c I happen to know from my bitchy (now) ex-girlfriend that their games hadn't been stellar on endings.

I mean so far as other content and to articulate the threat and perhaps bring it to a little more believable level, if they had more time to refine the story it would have done...better. Though possibly not to a GREAT HUGE deal, but noticeably at the LEAST.

LA wanted the Jedi wiped out?


Ok, then I want you to come up with your own alternate storyline premise/point that was a worthy threat to call a galactic wide catastrophe in the making.

And it better be perfect in every way while making millions of dollars. :p


Well they also kinda kicked Revan out of the Galaxy anyway. Threw him right outta the known universe. (S)He was only a remnant. But built up into godly status. Then thrown out. So they did both. The character you played was in Revan's shadow. and he was nowhere to be seen(save the one scene in that place... vague to avoid spoiler).

Wha???

So while we agree that Revan has been insultingly overblown...you're saying TSL should have been about Revan again? :confused:



As I noted, I would rather they hadn't squashed TSL. But it just don't see it as too much of a loss if they do.

It'll be what it is, but considering all things they might not purge it so utterly. Think of how much has been since made canon. We'll have to wait and see.

No I mean the story itself, I was conceding the on the ending actually b/c I happen to know from my bitchy (now) ex-girlfriend that their games hadn't been stellar on endings.

I mean so far as other content and to articulate the threat and perhaps bring it to a little more believable level, if they had more time to refine the story it would have done...better. Though possibly not to a GREAT HUGE deal, but noticeably at the LEAST.

Well, honestly aside from the ending the story was relatively complete. A few more months would have been plenty to complete the game. Maybe a bit mroe to bug-fix.

Ok, then I want you to come up with your own alternate storyline premise/point that was a worthy threat to call a galactic wide catastrophe in the making.

And it better be perfect in every way while making millions of dollars. :p

A promising young Jedi padawan begins his trials to become a full fledge Jedi Knight. During his(her) trials (s)he and her master are attacked by Sith that had been in hiding. They had secretly been placing themselves in all areas of the Republic. Biding their time. Now revealed they begin their overthrow of the Republic.

Best I can do without a few weeks workup. And I would have started you off with a lightsaber.


Wha???

So while we agree that Revan has been insultingly overblown...you're saying TSL should have been about Revan again? :confused:

Not necessarily. I just feel that it was crappy to throw the character away as "went to the unknown regions" but instead the character could have been used as something more than a mention. Perhaps in the case of my story, Revan could be the master that gets slain. Or if he went all dark sidey, perhaps Revan was the Sith you meet on your trials. Some form of closure to the character.



It'll be what it is, but considering all things they might not purge it so utterly. Think of how much has been since made canon. We'll have to wait and see.

Either way, I'll be playing it. I really hope that they at least acknowledge more of TSL than in just passing. I have my doubts though. Looking at the timeline, it doesn't appear to even show any of the TSL events.

Wow. Great thread. It's fantastic to see all the excitement around the KOTOR lore. There is much that we obviously aren’t revealing but I did want to clear up any misconceptions about what I was talking about in the interview.


Revan and Malak went into deep space and met the Sith Emperor. They were turned and sent back to prepare the way for the return of the true Sith.
Being Sith and away from the Emperor’s direct influence neither Revan nor Malak followed orders exactly as they were supposed to. Then, of course, Malak betrayed Revan.
The Jedi took in Revan and returned him to the light, though as it was not a natural turn for him when he went dark, there was much they couldn’t undo and they decided to remove his memories and hopefully his taint with it. Yes, Revan’s return to the light (and his gender as male) are canon.
Later Revan returned to deep space to confront what he knew was out there but how much he actually remembered and how clearly he remembered it is still a mystery, as are the events that followed. What we do know is that it took hundreds of years for the Sith to re-emerge as originally planned.

The rest is all speculation and have fun with that. For those of you convinced that somehow we’re going to destroy KOTOR, I ask you to remember that the creative team (including the lead writer and lead designer) that was in charge of KOTOR’s story is on this staff, working on this game. Trust us that our investment in this lore is at least as strong as yours. :)

Hope that clears things up a little.

That doesn't really clear anything up, but only confirms mine and others suspicions that TSL's canon is being ignored and even flat-out retconned. He seems to have pulled Revan's allegiance to the Sith Emperor out of thin air, as that was never even hinted at in K1. Also, notice how he speaks of preserving KotOR's canon as if it is the monastery at Petra, but says nothing concerning K2, not even an allusion or implication.

^Revan's reasons for switching to the dark side was a complete mystery, they even said so in K1. This isn't a retcon, it's just Bioware filling in a blank.

As for preserving K2, he did reuse the idea of Revan going back out there to fight the Sith Lords (which also tells us he didn't go back to the dark side after regaining his memories).

^ That. Makes sense to me- just seems like some people are looking for leaks in the life boat.

Hmmm...at least it's somewhat explained WHY Revan went. And it still leaves the way open that he made an epic last stand there to prevent the Sith from starting the war.

Alas, it STILL ignores the TSL canon :(

EDIT: And it keeps the possibiliy of Revan having joined the Emperor and become a Raid boss (lame)

Good point Ztalker, MMO's revolve around cool bosses, and I bet the devs would think it awesome to have Revan or something like the ghost of Revan as a raid boss, perhaps against his will (to appease the people that love seeing Revan as a hero).

Actually I think I remember the "true Sith" was given mention in the first game's loading screens.

Dude, I believe we (collectively) have been through this many times on these forums now: The "true Sith" mentioned in the loading screen was obviously a throw-away line that they intended to do nothing with. And it clearly does not refer to the same group that Kreia refers to. In the loading screen, seems clear (sorry to be so redundant here) that "true Sith" refers to the Sith species seen in the Tales of the Jedi comics, in order to differentiate between them and the mostly human Sith seen in the game. The "true Sith" mentioned in The Sith Lords originally referred to something else entirely, having nothing to do with the line of succession that was a hybrid of the Sith species and the exiled Dark Jedi from the Hundred-Year Darkness (despite the claims LucasArts is making to the contrary now, Obsidian clearly had something else in mind back when they made the game); but now it refers to the remnant of the Old Sith Empire that has been plotting in secret from the Unknown Regions, fleeing known space after the Great Hyperspace war.

Sorry to sound so snappy, but I'm getting a little tired of people trying to point out that the "true Sith" idea came from the first game when it obviously did not. In fact, I doubt very much that BioWare ever anticipated that that one line from the loading screen - which was obviously used without much thought to describe something very simple to the audience - would gain so much attention later on.

That doesn't really clear anything up, but only confirms mine and others suspicions that TSL's canon is being ignored and even flat-out retconned. He seems to have pulled Revan's allegiance to the Sith Emperor out of thin air, as that was never even hinted at in K1. Also, notice how he speaks of preserving KotOR's canon as if it is the monastery at Petra, but says nothing concerning K2, not even an allusion or implication.

Uh, how? Retconned, yes, but certainly not ignored. Why? because this whole "true Sith" idea comes straight out of The Sith Lords (and if you're thinking of using the but-they-were-mentioned-in-KOTOR excuse, see my above post). In fact, it was because of TSL's ending that fans have been anxiously wondering about these mysterious "true Sith" for years, such fascination clearly being the driving motive behind the story of this game.

How was Revan's allegiance to the Sith Emperor hinted at in KOTOR? Also, kudos for mentioning the Monastery of Petra! :)