welp, i guess i'll kick this shindig off with this (
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28397813/). basically israel decided to bomb civilian targets as schools were letting out and a killed a few hundred civilians in response to one israeli woman being injured in an attack carried out by a small faction of palestinians in a response to an occupation and blockade in response to rocket attacks in response to the last thing.
to finish up this post: am i allowed to hate what israel is doing (bombing one group for the actions of another) or is that still against the rules?
I think that Israel's response, as usual, is a little overblown. And they can hardly continue to portray themselves as the injured party when they act in such a manner.
I think that Israel's response, as usual, is a little overblown. And they can hardly continue to portray themselves as the injured party when they act in such a manner.QFT
Although Hamas seems to be the initial instigator, Israel, as always, is using excessive force. I wouldn't be too surprised in Israel goes in for the kill and tries to capture Gaza entirely. Of course, the U.S. government is eternally loyal to Israel, so they'll probably give them even more weapons.
QFT
Although Hamas seems to be the initial instigator, Israel, as always, is using excessive force. I wouldn't be too surprised in Israel goes in for the kill and tries to capture Gaza entirely. Of course, the U.S. government is eternally loyal to Israel, so they'll probably give them even more weapons.iirc this time israel was the provocateur when they broke the ceasefire november 4th and have been essentially starving the palestinian people since then.
iirc this time israel was the provocateur when they broke the ceasefire november 4th and have been essentially starving the palestinian people since then.Hm... that too, but I was more or less referring to the recent operation. Of course, you could also say that the conflict started several thousand years ago when those damn Israelites just had to go to Canaan and drive everyone else out.
iirc this time israel was the provocateur when they broke the ceasefire november 4th and have been essentially starving the palestinian people since then.
Yeah, the whole ****ing thing is stupid. They're like two stupid children fighting and one of them is going to get hurt. And then they're going to run crying to us, or to the caliph, (depending on which one gets hurt) and then ****'s goin' down.
_EW_
Now tell me Israel didn't knew that this would only render the palestinians more eager to fight on the only way they can cause real damage: more terrorist attacks.
As long as these two nations keep fighting, there will not be peace.
Tolerance
Yeah, pretty much been said, Israel's concept of diplomacy is "do what we say or we kill you", and their responses to violence against them are "we kill you moar!". It's moronic and annoying. I mean, what was one of their leading arguments as to why they did this according to the paper I read? Oh yeah, they wanted the Palestinians to give in to more "favorable" "peace" terms.
I really wish the US would stop backing them.
I mean, what was one of their leading arguments as to why they did this according to the paper I read? Oh yeah, they wanted the Palestinians to give in to more "favorable" "peace" terms.
Favourable in Israel's eyes must mean no terms for the other guys, then.
Yeah, if Hamas would stop going for their stated goal of driving the jews into the ocean, then maybe we could actually hate the Isrealis properly. Don't get me wrong, I hate what the Israelis have done to the Palestinians. They always answer death with a hundred deaths. Hamas has answered death with death as well, but the only thing they do differently is answer peace with death. Well I guess the Israelis do that too...
Ah well, The only way there will be peace in that area will be when the Israelis give up the land they bought from those that are now called Palestinians, but are really Jordans(Jordanians?) because they want their land back. Strangely enough I get to hear both sides of this argument from an Israeli friend and a Palestinian friend. You can guess why I don't ever let them meet up haha. but from what they have said:
Israeli side: They bought the land legally from the Jordans, and established themselves there. The people that are fighting now are trying to steal back the land that was legally purchased. The Palestinians have already stolen much of the land.
Palestinian side: The Jews worked shady deals to scam them out of the land in the first place, and the Palestinians are taking back what is rightfully theirs. The Israelis broke their word to them on numerous occasions, and attempted to drive the remaining people out. They treat them as slaves and second class citizens. If they treat them as citizens at all.
My take: Chances are there were probably some shady deals, and the palestinians actually have a point for their hatred. But stealing the land back isn't the best option. Neither side is right in the conflict. Until both sides agree on that, they won't have peace.
As far as hating them I don't see what good it will do, but it's understandable at the very least. It's tragic, but we all know that, and with the bad blood between the two it won't be easy to come to a resolution, much less a good one. But we all know that as well, I suppose we can only hope some good will come out of this. That perhaps Israel's supporting nations will not continue to enable them to do things like this.
Stating the obvious: Israel had better hope that the U.S. is never over-extended and thereby forced to fold up shop. What goes around, comes around.
Stating the obvious: Israel had better hope that the U.S. is never over-extended and thereby forced to fold up shop. What goes around, comes around.
As a citizen of the US it does feel as if were the parent spoiling the child, perhaps that's a bad analogy but it is the best that comes to mind. I think the global community is waiting to see what we do since, in my opinion, we do share an amount of responsibility ( large or small is debatable in my mind) for Israel. Though what we should do... I'm not sure, a stricter policy of compliance sounds like a good first step.
As a citizen of the US it does feel as if were the parent spoiling the child, perhaps that's a bad analogy but it is the best that comes to mind.How about arming the neighborhood bully and then pressuring our friends to threaten any of the smaller kids that threaten to stand up to him? I like that one.
I think the global community is waiting to see what we do since, in my opinion, we do share an amount of responsibility ( large or small is debatable in my mind) for Israel.I vote for "large". It's staggering how much money we give them every year.
And then when you find out what they do with it...
Though what we should do... I'm not sure, a stricter policy of compliance sounds like a good first step.Yes, or less hypocrisy. That would also be good.
PS Welcome to LF
How about arming the neighborhood bully and then pressuring our friends to threaten any of the smaller kids that threaten to stand up to him? I like that one.
I don't quite have your flare, I suppose looking at it as playground politics is a good way to illustrate it. Though I think our role would be more of an adult exerting negative influence on the child, perhaps it's condescending but we are a world power so it does seem more accurate.
I vote for "large". It's staggering how much money we give them every year. And then when you find out what they do with it...
I've heard varying things in my discussions about amounts and what they are doing with it, so I've taken it with a grain of salt. Have they released a federal report or such thing, I realize it could be inaccurate but I'd be more willing to believe it. I suppose my ignorance is showing.
Yes, or less hypocrisy. That would also be good.
Well the only thing we can do about that is exercise our rights to vote and to speech when we see these hypocrisies. Well, I suppose I'm trying to look at it from a perspective of 'What can we do?' Perhaps that's inappropriate for the discussion.
So instead, yes the human element will always be a problem. Politicians are corruptible and are not infallible... jeez talk about stating the obvious lol.
PS Welcome to LF
Thank you very much!
How about arming the neighborhood bully and then pressuring our friends to threaten any of the smaller kids that threaten to stand up to him? I like that one.stop hitting yourself palestine stop hitting yourself palestine stop hitting yourself palestine stop hitting yourself palestine stop hitting yourself palestine
I vote for "large". It's staggering how much money we give them every year.it's staggering how much we give them in just a single day.
And then when you find out what they do with it...buy stealth planes so they can get around palestinian radar.
Well, there has been yet another day of attacks. More wounded/killed.
Lastest news (
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/12/28/gaza.israel.strikes/index.html)
According to this article, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told Cabinet ministers Sunday that the situation "is liable to continue for some time."
I don't quite have your flare, I suppose looking at it as playground politics is a good way to illustrate it. Though I think our role would be more of an adult exerting negative influence on the child, perhaps it's condescending but we are a world power so it does seem more accurate.It mostly at matter of opinion anyway. There might be good arguments for an adult/child argument, but I tend to view global politics as cranky, unwashed children in a sandbox, so that probably influences my analogy.
I've heard varying things in my discussions about amounts and what they are doing with it, so I've taken it with a grain of salt. Have they released a federal report or such thing, I realize it could be inaccurate but I'd be more willing to believe it. I suppose my ignorance is showing.It varies slightly from year-to-year, but IIRC it's about $3 billion in foreign aid. I believe military aid is a separate number and I wouldn't trust any number I saw published because not all military spending is reported.
Well the only thing we can do about that is exercise our rights to vote and to speech when we see these hypocrisies. Well, I suppose I'm trying to look at it from a perspective of 'What can we do?' Perhaps that's inappropriate for the discussion.
So instead, yes the human element will always be a problem. Politicians are corruptible and are not infallible... jeez talk about stating the obvious lol. You are correct, however I'm not sure how we even begin to take on the Israel lobby in Washington.
Intro (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_lobby_in_the_United_States)
You are correct, however I'm not sure how we even begin to take on the Israel lobby in Washington.
Intro (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_lobby_in_the_United_States)
That is a pretty serious problem, one group having that much power. I'm a little stunned frankly, I hope the quotes of senators in their camp were exaggerations, but I suppose it would make sense when you look at what Israel has gotten from us.
That is a pretty serious problem, one group having that much power. I'm a little stunned frankly, I hope the quotes of senators in their camp were exaggerations, but I suppose it would make sense when you look at what Israel has gotten from us.Pay close attention to the "Coalitions with other interest groups" section. If any of the names look unfamiliar, I recommend Googling them.
Pay close attention to the "Coalitions with other interest groups" section. If any of the names look unfamiliar, I recommend Googling them.
My... aren't they all a bundle of joy.
I saw a newsclip a few nights back where Isreal voiced concern over Obama. There was talk about how Isreal is insecure with Obama's abilities. Isreal may feel as though our new president will not support their efforts; thus, they took a preemtive strike to remove Hamas. Gaza strip was handed over to Palestine as a act of peace. Palestine ended up using it as a tool to strike into Isreal. Hamas came in and took it from both sides. I'm not surprised this has happend. You can only be poked so many times until there is a reaction.
I saw a newsclip a few nights back where Isreal voiced concern over Obama. There was talk about how Isreal is insecure with Obama's abilities. Isreal may feel as though our new president will not support their efforts; thus, they took a preemtive strike to remove Hamas. Gaza strip was handed over to Palestine as a act of peace. Palestine ended up using it as a tool to strike into Isreal. Hamas came in and took it from both sides. I'm not surprised this has happend. You can only be poked so many times until there is a reaction.
Which does not excuse this attack. Israel blew up 230+ people, not soldiers, not paramilitary, not terrorists, just random people.
The same holds true for Palestine, you cannot expect them to do nothing when Israel doesn't give a damn who they kill.
I saw a newsclip a few nights back where Isreal voiced concern over Obama. There was talk about how Isreal is insecure with Obama's abilities. Isreal may feel as though our new president will not support their efforts; thus, they took a preemtive strike to remove Hamas. Gaza strip was handed over to Palestine as a act of peace. Palestine ended up using it as a tool to strike into Isreal. Hamas came in and took it from both sides. I'm not surprised this has happend. You can only be poked so many times until there is a reaction.For God's sake, please don't drag Obama into this, he has little to do with Israel's decision to strike Gaza. Israel had been planning this attack for months, not just several weeks.
Which does not excuse this attack. Israel blew up 230+ people, not soldiers, not paramilitary, not terrorists, just random people.
The same holds true for Palestine, you cannot expect them to do nothing when Israel doesn't give a damn who they kill.
Isreal is tired of being bossed around, and the death toll keeps pilling up. I don't see any other course of action. They are a democracy surounded by terrorist states. Does this excuse 230+ civilian deaths? Pull some reality into the mix. How many civilians has Palestine killed over the years? They are both guilty of killing civilian; nevertheless, something had to break the cycle. One way or another this has to end. Diplomacy was not working out.
For God's sake, don't drag Obama into this, he has little to do with Israel's decision to strike Gaza. Israel had been planning this attack for months, not just several weeks.
You have to pay attention to the news. Obama is not directly responsible for anything; however, it doesn't mean others don't have a problem with him.
:words: It's all Obama fault AGAIN. :rolleyes: Please explain why Israel practiced preemptive strikes in the 80s, 90s and 2000s under Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush. Is someone in the Israeli government clairvoyant and knew back in the 80s that we would one day elected Obama president?
Israel practices this procedure because they believe it give themselves the best chance of remaining secure. I happen to disagree.
What else can we blame on Obama? I broke a shoelace today. I suppose that is some how his fault too.
It's all Obama fault AGAIN. :rolleyes: Please explain why Israel practiced preemptive strikes in the 80s, 90s and 2000s under Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush. Is someone in the Israeli government clairvoyant and knew back in the 80s that we would one day elected Obama president?
Israel practices this procedure because they believe it give themselves the best chance of remaining secure. I happen to disagree.
What else can we blame on Obama? I broke a shoelace today. I suppose that is some how his fault too.
For God's sake, please don't drag Obama into this, he has little to do with Israel's decision to strike Gaza. Israel had been planning this attack for months, not just several weeks.
Everyone is missing the whole point. Scan over my posts again so you don't make a false accusation.
What else can we blame on Obama? I broke a shoelace today. I suppose that is some how his fault too.Obama wanted to bring jobs back to the U.S. from third-world countries, therefore, Nike wanted its sweatshop workers to labor harder before they actually have to pay American workers a reasonable salary. The eight-year-old boy in Pakistan who was fitting the plastic tip on your lace did it poorly due to increased production. Therefore, Obama is undermining our own feet, the cornerstone of human productivity.
Obama wanted to bring jobs back to the U.S. from third-world countries, therefore, Nike wanted its sweatshop workers to labor harder before they actually have to pay American workers a reasonable salary. The eight-year-old boy in Pakistan who was fitting the plastic tip on your lace did it poorly due to increased production. Therefore, Obama is undermining our own feet, the cornerstone of human productivity.
You folks are not paying attention. You have to read posts carefully.
No, it attempts to make Obama look bad.
On the Israeli part, Obama is merely an excuse and a terrible one at that. No matter who the U.S. President is, they will support Israeli. Especially if he/she wants a second term in office.
You folks are not paying attention. You have to read posts carefully.And I was. I'm saying that there is no way that Obama has anything to do with Israel's strike in Gaza. They've been doing this for decades, and with our weapons, they can.
For example, in 1981, France was helping Iraq build a nuclear reactor. Now, Israel assumed that this was for the procurement of plutonium for nuclear weapons, however, it could've just been for peaceful purposes. Well, Israel didn't really care about what the reactor was being used for, so they simply bombed it, without any warning in advance. Now, that's pretty damn devious of Israel to do that, and although Iraq was being led by Hussein, who would later kill many more innocent civilians, it doesn't just allow Israel to barge into any other country and impose their beliefs on it. Hm... just like the U.S. :p
No, it attempts to make Obama look bad.
On the Israeli part, Obama is merely an excuse and a terrible one at that. No matter who the U.S. President is, they will support Israeli. Especially if he/she wants a second term in office.
I don't think its a attempt to make him look bad. I do however see this as a legit concern on Isreal's behalf. Its has to do with where you live in the world, and how that affects your views from the other side. You and I can live in the US under any president; however, people on the other side of the world can have a different tolerance. Isreal views Obama as a very inexperienced president. We know he is not experienced in foreign policy; nevertheless, US citizens lax a blind eye to give him a opportunity. We don't see the world through Isreal's eyes.
And I was. I'm saying that there is no way that Obama has anything to do with Israel's strike in Gaza. They've been doing this for decades, and with our weapons, they can.
I'm on your side. Obama didn't do anything directly. This war has been going on for years. They just don't have faith in our next president. I'm certain it has happend sometime in the past as well. Different president but similar conditions.
*** Edit ***
We learned about Obama's parental connection to Islam. We also learned Obama became a Christian through educational exposure. U.S. citizens can live knowing the unorthodox cards that have been played; however, what and how does the world view Obama's past? Does Isreal and Palestine have the tolerance to play diplomacy with Obama? I can't answer these questions. We have to wait and see how the world changes. Isreal's actions can be taken as a light precursor to events yet to unfold.
How does the world view a United States president who has experience with Islamic and Christian traditions? Will this cause insecurity to be felt around the world? Will this make other countries change their stance with us? I don't have enough political science knowledge to answer these questions. I don't think anyone here does.
Isreal views Obama as a very inexperienced president. We know he is not experienced in foreign policy; nevertheless, US citizens lax a blind eye to give him a opportunity. We don't see the world through Isreal's eyes.
First off, you know nothing of me or how I view the world beyond what I post here. You don’t know about the tattoos on my Great Uncle and Aunt’s arms. You may not even know the meaning of those tattoos. You don’t know where they lived from 1976 until their deaths in the late 80’s. Does not mean I understand what the people of Israel have been though, but it does mean I care about Israel.
Second, Obama is not the first president to lack experience. George W Bush had absolutely no experience beyond being Texas governor (which means he had no experience). The Lieutenant Governor runs the show in Texas. Which explains how Texas has survived the last two idiots we had in the office of Governor. Beyond pardons and appointments, the Governor of Texas is a figurehead and nothing more (Explains why my aspiration in High School was to be the Governor of Texas). Of course, in fairness to Israel, if the last President with little (no experience) is any indication of how things will be handled in the Middle East, they may want to primitive the entire region into glass.
You can only be poked so many times until there is a reaction.Funny, that's what the Palestinians say too.
Funny, that's what the Palestinians say too.
Its a endless cycle. Peace settles in for a brief moment, and then all hell breaks loose from a twitch. One sneeze sets everything off. Its a horrible way to live.
First off, you know nothing of me or how I view the world beyond what I post here. You don’t know about the tattoos on my Great Uncle and Aunt’s arms. You may not even know the meaning of those tattoos. You don’t know where they lived from 1976 until their deaths in the late 80’s. Does not mean I understand what the people of Israel have been though, but it does mean I care about Israel.
I keep forgetting people from around the world visit here. I do have sympathy for anyone who lives in such harsh conditions. My apology for making a fast assumption. How long did they live in Isreal?
I saw a newsclip a few nights back where Isreal voiced concern over Obama. There was talk about how Isreal is insecure with Obama's abilities. Isreal may feel as though our new president will not support their efforts; thus, they took a preemtive strike to remove Hamas. Gaza strip was handed over to Palestine as a act of peace. Palestine ended up using it as a tool to strike into Isreal. Hamas came in and took it from both sides. I'm not surprised this has happend. You can only be poked so many times until there is a reaction. gaza was given to the palestinians, however israel cut off gaza from shipments of food, water, and electricity, that being said, attacking israel is the obvious logical progression for hamas
as i said before, ISRAEL BROKE THE CEASEFIRE, NOT HAMAS
Isreal is tired of being bossed around, and the death toll keeps pilling up. I don't see any other course of action. They are a democracy surounded by terrorist states. Does this excuse 230+ civilian deaths? Pull some reality into the mix. How many civilians has Palestine killed over the years? They are both guilty of killing civilian; nevertheless, something had to break the cycle. One way or another this has to end. Diplomacy was not working out. israel bosses others around, you seem to be confused
237 (
http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualties.asp), versus 4781 palestinians killed by the israelis since 2000, roughly 1/4 of them were actually involved in conflict and another 1/4 were kids.
gaza was given to the palestinians, however israel cut off gaza from shipments of food, water, and electricity, that being said, attacking israel is the obvious logical progression for hamas
as i said before, ISRAEL BROKE THE CEASEFIRE, NOT HAMAS
Who should be responsible for the Palestinians? Israel or Palastine? Why should Israel grant food, water, and electricity to a foreign nation when their own government should take up responsibility?
There's been fighting in and around Israel for the last 5000 years. Anyone who thinks either side is going to back down soon does not understand the deep-seated, utter hatred these people-groups have for each other. The world can exert all the pressure we want on Arab and Israeli groups, but until they actually want to sit down and really talk it out instead of getting ticked off about stupid things like who sits where at a table, the fighting is never going to end. Who's right? Neither side. They're killing each other. Who's wrong? Both sides. Neither will do the give-and-take required to resolve the conflict. Until one side unilaterally sets the weapons down, they're always both going to be in the wrong, I don't care who's done what to whom.
Who should be responsible for the Palestinians? Israel or Palastine? Why should Israel grant food, water, and electricity to a foreign nation when their own government should take up responsibility?first off, do you not understand the phrase "cut off"? second, the palestinians elected hamas (since a large portion of their operations are humanitarian in nature) a while back then israel threw a hissy fit and incited a civil war between hamas and fatah.
There's been fighting in and around Israel for the last 5000 years. Anyone who thinks either side is going to back down soon does not understand the deep-seated, utter hatred these people-groups have for each other. The world can exert all the pressure we want on Arab and Israeli groups, but until they actually want to sit down and really talk it out instead of getting ticked off about stupid things like who sits where at a table, the fighting is never going to end. Who's right? Neither side. They're killing each other. Who's wrong? Both sides. Neither will do the give-and-take required to resolve the conflict. Until one side unilaterally sets the weapons down, they're always both going to be in the wrong, I don't care who's done what to whom.
I absolutely agree with your comments. Most of the wars are biblical territory disputes, right?
Which does not excuse this attack. Israel blew up 230+ people, not soldiers, not paramilitary, not terrorists, just random people.
So you're saying it's Israel's fault that Hamas uses civilians as human shields, also the UN is practically the worst source to get anything from when it comes to Israel.
The same holds true for Palestine, you cannot expect them to do nothing when Israel doesn't give a damn who they kill.
Okay I'm guessing you're using the United Nations as a source, and they aren't exactly a valid source when it comes to Israel. Fact is this moral equivalency argument doesn't hold any water whatsoever.
Fact: Hamas has fired approximately 6,000 rockets into Israel if I remember correctly from the news today. The fact that either Hamas has extremely bad aim or the hand of God is protecting the Israelis is besides the point.
Fact: Civilians being killed on accident when trying to hit terrorists that are hiding behind civilians is not even remotely equivalent to the evil of strapping bombs to kids and having them go into crowded market places and blowing the kids up via remote. Or having a suicide bomber blow themselves up in a pizza parlor.
Fact: Hamas won't even accept Israel's right to exist, they won't be satisfied until the Israeli people are annihilated.
Fact: Hamas used this last cease fire to sneak in a bunch of weapons including the rockets they've been shooting off.
Fact: Using civilians as human shields is a war crime.
To sum it up there is no equivalency, Israel in this situation is in the right.
So you're saying it's Israel's fault that Hamas uses civilians as human shields, also the UN is practically the worst source to get anything from when it comes to Israel.
Okay I'm guessing you're using the United Nations as a source, and they aren't exactly a valid source when it comes to Israel. Fact is this moral equivalency argument doesn't hold any water whatsoever.
Fact: Hamas has fired approximately 6,000 rockets into Israel if I remember correctly from the news today. The fact that either Hamas has extremely bad aim or the hand of God is protecting the Israelis is besides the point.
Fact: Civilians being killed on accident when trying to hit terrorists that are hiding behind civilians is not even remotely equivalent to the evil of strapping bombs to kids and having them go into crowded market places and blowing the kids up via remote. Or having a suicide bomber blow themselves up in a pizza parlor.
Fact: Hamas won't even accept Israel's right to exist, they won't be satisfied until the Israeli people are annihilated.
Fact: Hamas used this last cease fire to sneak in a bunch of weapons including the rockets they've been shooting off.
Fact: Using civilians as human shields is a war crime.
To sum it up there is no equivalency, Israel in this situation is in the right.fact: israel has probably dropped around 6000 tons of explosives on gaza by now and unlike the rockets hamas is firing that have designs that are decades old, the israelis can actually aim them since they get some of the most advanced weapons in the world from the u.s.
fact: israel bombed civilian targets <snipped>
fact: that probably has something to do with israel razing palestinian cities and towns and massacring palestinian civilians (you probably ignored it in the other thread but the israelis themselves convicted ariel sharon of war crimes)
fact: ISRAEL BROKE THE CEASEFIRE
fact: murdering civilians en masse is a war crime as well
to sum it up: you're wrong, israel broke the ceasefire and started this conflict and their heavy handed actions will extend it.
How long did they live in Isreal?They lived in Bay City, Texas from 1946 until 1976. They moved to Israel in November of 1976. My Aunt died (natural causes) in 1989. I’m unsure of my Uncle as I don’t really remember him as he was not the friendliest of persons (at least to a kid at the time). Would loved to have understood at the time what they went though. I may have been nicer to them both. Never really figured out the logistic of how they were really related to me. I assume they were really cousin, but at that time, a child either had to call adults Mr. or Mrs. sir name or Aunt and Uncle to use their first names. Still call most of my elderly cousins by Aunt or Uncle.
fact: israel has probably dropped around 6000 tons of explosives on gaza by now and unlike the rockets hamas is firing that have designs that are decades old, the israelis can actually aim them since they get some of the most advanced weapons in the world from the u.s.
I'm going to guess you didn't take into account the fact that Hamas is deliberately hiding behind civilians when they are firing those rockets. Smart munitions are relatively accurate but they aren't so accurate that you can snipe someone from several hundred feet in the air in a fighter jet...
fact: israel bombed civilian targets <snipped>
:rolleyes:
fact: that probably has something to do with israel razing palestinian cities and towns and massacring palestinian civilians (you probably ignored it in the other thread but the israelis themselves convicted ariel sharon of war crimes)
Isn't Ariel Sharon deceased? Anyways, if Israel wanted to, they could level every city, town, and village in Gaza. It would be a heck of a lot cheaper to do than the cost of all the smart munitions they're using trying to hit the people shooting off the rockets in the first place.
fact: ISRAEL BROKE THE CEASEFIRE
Didn't Israel go into Gaza partially because Hamas wasn't doing anything to stop rockets being fired into Israel from inside Gaza?
fact: murdering civilians en masse is a war crime as well
Israel isn't gunning for civilians though, they are trying to hit the terrorists whom are firing rockets into Israel. Fact is it's kinda hard to do so without civilian casualties if their launch site is say a daycare where the kids are still having classes (just an example to illustrate the point)...
to sum it up: you're wrong, israel broke the ceasefire and started this conflict and their heavy handed actions will extend it.
Hamas wasn't technically honoring the cease fire in the first place though, while they supposedly weren't firing rockets into Israel a bunch of other groups were doing various attacks on Israel, hence Israel finally said enough is enough. Fact is there is a lot less violence between Israel and the Palestinians in the West Bank.
Interview on Fox News that is of interest:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,473444,00.html#)
I'm going to guess you didn't take into account the fact that Hamas is deliberately hiding behind civilians when they are firing those rockets. Smart munitions are relatively accurate but they aren't so accurate that you can snipe someone from several hundred feet in the air in a fighter jet...they dropped bombs on civilian targets.
Isn't Ariel Sharon deceased? Anyways, if Israel wanted to, they could level every city, town, and village in Gaza. It would be a heck of a lot cheaper to do than the cost of all the smart munitions they're using trying to hit the people shooting off the rockets in the first place.he's in a coma, but that's beside the point.
Didn't Israel go into Gaza partially because Hamas wasn't doing anything to stop rockets being fired into Israel from inside Gaza?you're making my point for me, that they bombed civilians for the actions of extremists within hamas.
Israel isn't gunning for civilians though, they are trying to hit the terrorists whom are firing rockets into Israel. Fact is it's kinda hard to do so without civilian casualties if their launch site is say a daycare where the kids are still having classes (just an example to illustrate the point)...bombed civilian targets(x1000)
dunno how many times i have to say it
Hamas wasn't technically honoring the cease fire in the first place though, while they supposedly weren't firing rockets into Israel a bunch of other groups were doing various attacks on Israel, hence Israel finally said enough is enough. Fact is there is a lot less violence between Israel and the Palestinians in the West Bank.yes, enough is enough.
*bombs innocent people for the actions of others who were only standing up for their right to not be starved to death by israel*
e: lol your own source sides with me
November 2008: Palestinians resume rocket and mortar fire into Israel after Israeli incursion.
also incursion means "killed a couple of people"
they dropped bombs on civilian targets.
So you're trying to hide the fact that Hamas deliberately sets up its rocket launch sites near schools to maximize the chances of civilian casualties?
he's in a coma, but that's beside the point.
Then why bring him up if he isn't a factor in this?
you're making my point for me, that they bombed civilians for the actions of extremists within hamas.
No, I'm not making your point because after the Israeli ground incursion they used that as an excuse to start shooting more rockets off only this time it was the main part of Hamas. During the cease fire they had also been sneaking in rockets for something like this.
bombed civilian targets(x1000)
So you're saying it's Israel's fault that Hamas uses schools filled with children as launching platforms for their rockets.
dunno how many times i have to say it
:rolleyes:
yes, enough is enough.
*bombs innocent people for the actions of others who were only standing up for their right to not be starved to death by israel*
That's a laugh, seriously Israel has not restricted shipments of food, they have required everything going in to be searched though for good reason.
e: lol your own source sides with me
No, he does not side with you, he had to play devils advocate in interest of being fair and balanced. And the timeline is just a gross simplification of what happened and not necessarily everything that happened.
also incursion means "killed a couple of people"
An incursion doesn't mean you killed anyone, and what was left out was why they went into Gaza in the first place. Seriously painting it that the Israelis having nothing to do that day decided to drive into Gaza with tanks makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Fox News was giving a simplified timeline nothing more. I suggest you watch the video I posted.
So you're trying to hide the fact that Hamas deliberately sets up its rocket launch sites near schools to maximize the chances of civilian casualties?gaza is one of the most densely populated areas in the world <snipped>
Then why bring him up if he isn't a factor in this?an example of israel's actions against the palestinians and how little they care about palestinian civilian deaths
No, I'm not making your point because after the Israeli ground incursion they used that as an excuse to start shooting more rockets off only this time it was the main part of Hamas. During the cease fire they had also been sneaking in rockets for something like this.yep, the israelis only killed some palestinians no reason for the ceasefire to be broken.
That's a laugh, seriously Israel has not restricted shipments of food, they have required everything going in to be searched though for good reason.i return your chuckles to you sir (because you are wrong).
No, he does not side with you, he had to play devils advocate in interest of being fair and balanced. And the timeline is just a gross simplification of what happened and not necessarily everything that happened.so you're own source is what you say it is even if it's contrary to what's posted? interesting.
An incursion doesn't mean you killed anyone, and what was left out was why they went into Gaza in the first place. Seriously painting it that the Israelis having nothing to do that day decided to drive into Gaza with tanks makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Fox News was giving a simplified timeline nothing more. I suggest you watch the video I posted.only they did kill people in their incursion. and it does make sense because the israeli government consists of hardline militants who consider genocide a valid military option.
There's been fighting in and around Israel for the last 5000 years.Yes, but the current iteration of Israel has only been around for 60 years.
Can we just point out the elephant in the room and note that if we offered to give each of these groups one of the Dakotas if they would call it off, neither would take us up on it? This whole thing is over who gets to have pissing rights to Jerusalem.