SW01 posted very well i think imho
A few days ago, I would have whole-heartedly agreed. But BioWare have been clear that this will not be a standard MMO. If they manage to implement half of what they promise, it may be worthwhile.
I think in the long run it will depend on the attitudes of those playing. If people set out to ruin it for us, the MMO will, likely, be awful. If everyone plays it properly, who knows?
Let's be cool and wait and see, there is a HUGE effort going on here by Biowar, they have committed incredible resources and all their integrity and mojo to make this an awesome sequel and continuation of a much beloved segment of the SW universe....so lets give them a chance to do their thing and share with us as they are, they are being very open and candid and clearly both BioW and LucasA are really working hard to make a masterpiece. It takes time. :) Let's see what they do.
I don't think TOR will be nearly as good as the original KoTOR games were and more importantly, I don't think it's a conclusion to the series as this game will probably have very little to do, story-wise, with the KoTOR games. We'll just wait and see, I guess. :(
I don't think TOR will be nearly as good as the original KoTOR games were and more importantly, I don't think it's a conclusion to the series as this game will probably have very little to do, story-wise, with the KoTOR games. We'll just wait and see, I guess. :(
My thoughts exactly. Under normal circumstances I would be ecstatic that this game was being made. But I wish they had not said "The wait is over" The wait for what? A totally random game?
Surely they couldn't mean the KOTOR series because then it would have been called Knights of the Old Republic III. Apparently this is their way of giving us a K3. I am glad they made this, but why not just make a continuation to the KOTOR series? Obviously that is what they were aiming for...but 300 years? Not much of a continuation...the KOTOR centered around Revan, Exile, and had tradmark charaters like T3 and HK. This game looks like it will have none of that. It does not have the stuff that defines KOTOR and makes it stand out from other SW stuff.
IMO, I don't think they can fairly call it a continuation, unless they finish the ending of K2. What about Revan etc? I don't think it will be nearly as good either. I'll have to see more before I decide whether I want it or not. I appreciate the time and resources Bioware has put into this, but lets face it - when we thought of a continuation of KOTOR we thought "oh, Revan, Exile and the true sith" not "oh, hundreds of years later with totally new people and storyline."
Oh, well. I guess I just don't understand why they just would not make a continuation of te series. There are mixed feelings about this game, and a real KOTOR 3 would probably have made more money. *sigh* I just don't get it...why are they so adament about not making a true K3?:confused:
~HOP
^^^
This is just a guess, but maybe because of all of the bad press surrounding KotOR2's rushed and incomplete nature?
HOP the problem is that TSL kinda killed Revan's story. They booted him off to "Unknown Space" to get rid of him without officially killing him(because the revan worshippers would whine). The period after the Exile had left, virtually no jedi are left. TSL kinda killed the Knights part of it. So until more jedi are around it would be hard to justify KotOR3.
I personally am not bothered at all with this game and although I'm disappointed about the lack of K3 I'm hardly surprised that LA have come up with yet another money spinner rather than what would probably have concluded the KOTOR series, which seems to be a more logical thing to do rather than start yet another storyline in yet another era. Ah well...
I personally am not bothered at all with this game and although I'm disappointed about the lack of K3 I'm hardly surprised that LA have come up with yet another money spinner rather than what would probably have concluded the KOTOR series, which seems to be a more logical thing to do rather than start yet another storyline in yet another era. Ah well...
I think it would be too hard to make sequels that make sense to a series like KOTOR, due to the multiple, drastically different endings in both Knights of the Old Republic and The Sith Lords. No matter which direction you go in a sequel you're bound to piss someone off, making them feel like nothing their characters did in the past two games matter.
Sure, with both Dei Ex Machina from the past two games shipped off into the unknown never to be heard from again (in the light ending at least) it could focus on (yet) another new character with a separate story with no solid connection to the previous two, but then it wouldn't be much of a sequel. :)
I personally am not bothered at all with this game and although I'm disappointed about the lack of K3 I'm hardly surprised that LA have come up with yet another money spinner rather than what would probably have concluded the KOTOR series, which seems to be a more logical thing to do rather than start yet another storyline in yet another era. Ah well...
I agree with that to a certain extent. Maybe, because TSL was finished several years ago, LA considered a, KOTOR 3, a step backwards rather than forwards. I really don't know why they went with TOR, only that they (Lucas Arts, Bio ware) seem to be satisfied with there decision. It seems to please most people, that is. I'm happy with it...
Originally Posted by stoffe
I think it would be too hard to make sequels that make sense to a series like KOTOR, due to the multiple, drastically different endings in both Knights of the Old Republic and The Sith Lords. No matter which direction you go in a sequel you're bound to piss someone off, making them feel like nothing their characters did in the past two games matter.
Happens to me all the time....
I personally think that a sequel should be better than it's prequel. Topping Kotor is not the easiest of things to do.
I think it's a good idea that TOR takes placed 300 years after TSL. That way, they don't have to screw up the story if they don't want to. (Unlike Warcraft 3 -> World of Warcraft). Hopefully, Revan's and the Exile's fate remains a mystery.
I'm curious how Bioware is going to attempt to tell a story in a MMO. I'm certain that it won't be as good as any good RPG in that regard, still,...
I think it's a good idea that TOR takes placed 300 years after TSL. That way, they don't have to screw up the story if they don't want to.
I couldn't agree more. Not to mention that leaves enough time to possibly make a KotOR 3 SPRPG.
If they made a third KOTOR III, it would suck because you already would know how it was going to end. No doubt they will specify what happened in TOR.
That would make the game have to last for 300 years at the minimum. They don't have to tell what happened in that 300 years, just leave it a mystery.
If they made a third KOTOR III, it would suck because you already would know how it was going to end.
I know, the original two KotORs sucked because I knew the Emperor was going to be killed in RotJ.
I know, the original two KotORs sucked because I knew the Emperor was going to be killed in RotJ.
Ironic QFE.
If you don't believe me, ask the people that are still waiting for Warcraft IV.
lol, that was me for a very long time, until I finally gave up along the lines of two years ago. :p
I'm a bit undecided on this one. At first, I was dissapointed at no KotOR3. But then I started to think. Even though the storyline of TSL was fantastic, I didn't really like the situation which it left off; Exile and Revan off to fight sith Empire, Exile's companions off to rebuild Jedi, Republic recovering from Jedi civil war.
I like how I can play this for as long as I want, and as the story can't be as good as KotOR 3 would have been, it has more depth and opportunity to it.
That would make the game have to last for 300 years at the minimum. They don't have to tell what happened in that 300 years, just leave it a mystery.
That could be true. The Sith could be one everyone's good side because for the last 300 years they made a cover-up story about the Jedi.
I know, the original two KotORs sucked because I knew the Emperor was going to be killed in RotJ.
No, the KOTOR's didn't suck, but it sure made the first three episode a lot less exciting >.>
I have to admit, while some aspects of the premise behind TOR sound interesting and I hope it does well, I also feel like others here that this is not a true sequel or continuation of the KOTOR series at all, it's rather a different series set roughly in the same time period (similar to the Darth Bane series of books). I would have no problem with it if it would involve K3 coming out as well, but since this is it, then I have to admit I'm pretty disappointed at the moment.
For me, this would be like the movie saga ending with ESB (which the ending of TSL always felt to me to be similar to) and shooting straight into the Legacy era of SW, just informing us somewhere in Cade Skywalker's adventures that Vader turned back to the light due to his son, killed Sidious and the Rebellion won. And I think most would feel that would have sucked, rather then seeing the movie trilogy completed. And I feel the same way over this, though some of the potential of TOR sounds interesting with KOTOR they had the makings of a story that was at least just as good as the original movie saga, and they've effectively killed it and allot of the great characters in it mid-way, without us being able to follow that story to it's conclusion.
Anyhow, I hope this MMO does achieve what it sets out to do (as it is effectively carrying the KOTOR flag), but I'll always be bitterly disappointed that they never finished the KOTOR trilogy.
Who was the antagonist in KotOR? What happened to him?
Who was the antagonist in TSL? What happened to them?
Now answer Who the antagonist in ANH and ESB were and what happened to them at the end of those films.
That is how the analogy to ESB is flawed. See in both the previous games the antagonist in the stories was killed by the end of the game. In the movies, the antagonist was killed in the last movie(by a prior antagonist). The protagonist in the first game never made it past a cameo in the second. So to be totally fair, TSL wasn't a continuation of KotOR. TSL was more like jumping from ANH to Legacy era.
The protagonist in the first game never made it past a cameo in the second. So to be totally fair, TSL wasn't a continuation of KotOR. TSL was more like jumping from ANH to Legacy era.And was better for it, IMO.
That's not entirely true, at the back of both KOTOR and TSL is references to a greater threat in the Unknown Regions, in K1 we were told the Council suspected something was behind the Mandalorian Wars and consumed Revan and Malak, and Canderous tells you that the Sith were the ones who came to the Mandalorians with the offer to fight the greatest war of their era initiating the Mandalorian Wars. In TSL this thread is picked up and throughout that game we are told Revan went off to fight a greater threat then the current Sith that you are facing, which Keira eventually revealed this to be the 'true Sith' Empire that was waiting in the Unknown Regions and had been manipulating allot of the events and enemies encountered in the first two games (much like the Emperor is only referenced in ANH in which the big threat was the Death Star which was destroyed in that movie, and then only shown in a hologram in ESB, being only fully revealed in ROTJ), with the expectation that the true enemy hinted and further revealed in the first to games would be revealed fully in K3 in the same way.
So I would say there is a continuing enemy throughout the KOTOR series (which will survive to TOR apparently), so I still view it as a trilogy cut short by this jump to TOR
The wise course of action would be to ignore this thread altogether, but so long as I ignore others... so I won't directly quote or make reference to anyone from now on.
My greatest reason for disliking this MMO is because it is NOT the expected conclusion that was implied at the end of TSL. It is placed 300 years into the future... long after all everything established in the first two are left in limbo indefinitely. 300 years is not a significant enough time that they could leave the possibility open for a true KOTOR III.
Before this was introduced, the cliffhanger of TSL was at least open to the imagination. Now even the imagination has been killed off because this MUST explain where Revan and the Exile left off. The thing that I despise is that Lucasarts used only enough of KOTOR content to call this the conclusion if it succeeds. If it fails, they could say it's completely independent of the original two and it would not ruin that franchise any more than the ending to TSL being incomplete.
This is all speculation, but no sources, no facts, and anyone could chose not to believe any of this.
TOR and KOTOR III are NOT the same, but TOR as it is known explicitly declares that Revan and the Exile leave and never return. Then 350 years later, the enemies they went out to fight invade and conquer the Republic. This means that the climactic end to KOTOR is that the heros died or were converted.
But like in KOTOR you can imagine yourself what happened with Revan and the Exile...also it could be the emperor they did say he prolonged his life
ToR sounds OK, but what I really want is KotOR III or, better yet, KotOR IV: The Galactic Civil War video game! I mean, seriously, we can call the Galactic Civil War old, right? I mean, it's beyond 100+ ABY now. And between that huge gap is lot of stuff
I'm genuinely diasppointed that this is set 300 years after Revan, any kind of hopes I had for an amazing finish in KOTOR 3 are now destroyed and i'll have to make do with just reading about what happened rather than experiencing it :(
I'm glad to see that I'm not alone on this issue. I was very saddened not to see KOTOR III but I was frustrated that Lucasarts carved in stone that the spectacular ending I was anticipating would never be. I could understand that they would change the game from RPG because an MMO would be more profitable, but to set the game 300 years in the future?
I know I've already made my opinion known, but there was a 4000 year window that they could have used and to choose 300 years was just too close to KOTOR era for me. If they had chosen... 1000 years later, then I would have been satisfied to think that KOTOR ended positively, even if they didn't make the third game. Any timeframe greater than 15 years, but less than 500 years is too close to the KOTOR era.
I say again that the ONLY way I would be interested in the MMO is if they change the setting from 300 years to <15. That's all there is to it for me.
I say again that the ONLY way I would be interested in the MMO is if they change the setting from 300 years to <15. That's all there is to it for me.But with no/handful Jedi running around in that timeframe, how would that work for a MMO?
I think I am probably just as excited for SWToR as I would be for a KotOR 3.
What he said.
But with no/handful Jedi running around in that timeframe, how would that work for a MMO?
After thinking about it, it does seem that the timeframe immediately following TSL is spent. As Prime says, few Jedi about except the Exile's followers, even fewer Sith about (all-but destruction of Korriban's Academy infrastructure; destruction of Trayus Academy), and even the armies are strained.
I for one think that the later timeframe would in this case be necessary for a decent story involving all the usual Star Wars sects. Suddenly having a few thousand Jedi only a few years after a time with only a small handful left would cheapen TSL, imo.
How many Jedi were there at the end of ROTJ? I really don't believe numbers have much to do with why they chose 300 years after TSL.
Personally, I would have been much more for the Jedi facing nearly impossible odds than with a leveled playing field. When it is naturally expected that the Jedi would win 300 years down the road, then it seems a bit ironic that they would be beaten out by the True Sith when they were at full strength.
This shows that even after almost becoming extinct, the Jedi still didn't learn anything from the Mandalorian and Sith Wars. That completely demeans everything in the KOTOR story if they recover from those wars only to be crippled again by the same enemy.
300 years is enough time to have a new set of heroes, villains, organizations and so on.
300 years is enough time to have a new set of heroes, villains, organizations and so on.
Same villains, same conflict as before.
I didn't want a new era, but if that's what Lucasarts intended, why not 1000 years later? That way, they can come up with a new series completely. This MMO is meant to be the ending of KOTOR because it involves the same enemy as the KOTOR series.
Same villains, same conflict as before.
I didn't want a new era, but if that's what Lucasarts intended, why not 1000 years later? That way, they can come up with a new series completely. This MMO is meant to be the ending of KOTOR because it involves the same enemy as the KOTOR series.
Not necessarily! It is quite possible that Revan and the Exile gave their lives in order to stop the True Sith, and the True Sith were stopped. But, just like how Revan spontaneously became a sith lord, perhaps another Master of the Dark Side arose out in the Outer Rim 300 years later due to some ancient sith teachings.
There's nothing to indicate that Revan was killed and that the True Sith just waited around for 300 years before attacking the Republic. In fact, that makes even less sense to me than what I proposed off the top of my head as an alternative.
_EW_
Right... nothing is certain. Maybe Bioware has something in store that becomes much greater than anything I would have imagined. This could indeed be the beginning of the best chapter of the KOTOR era.
However, based on what I've seen of the MMO and plot, I see nothing more but a cheap attempt to peal to KOTOR fans with something that vaguely touches upon such a masterpiece as KOTOR (and the second if it had been completed properly) Based on what little info has been released, I'm convinced that there is no conclusion that I will look forward to unless the game takes place... I won't say it again.
To be honest if there is a good story line and 'main quest' line that i can follow through then I will be happy.
I don't really mind the MMO aspect of it, but I feel that having 1,000s of other 'heroes' running around in a game like KOTOR takes away a huge part of the appeal for me. But, as I have been saying for a while now, I wont judge the game properly until I play it, this is all just speculation :p
Can't judge the game until you've played it?
Does that mean that in order to judge the game, one must buy it and pay an additional fee to go online before even knowing whether or not it's worth buying?
My advice... not like anyone asked it... don't buy it unless you know you like it. I do not want anyone buying a lemon because they waste their hard-earned cash and Lucasarts ends up on top whether they make a lemon or a masterpiece. If they indeed make a lemon, DO NOT let them think they can put 'Star Wars' or 'Kotor' on any product and expect profit. Otherwise, they'll keep making lemons and everyone else will continue to be disappointed.
I agree, and until I see some proof that this game is a superior product than previous Star Wars titles, I do not plan on buying it. And I do hope that there is some kind of open beta that will be free for a while or something to allow us to test it out.
Same here, because I don't honestly know whether I'll like it or not. If I do it will be my first MMO, because the overall concept of an MMO has never really appealed to me before now.
A "Yoda" option is needed in the poll, BTW.
The thing is i'm an ex-Star Wars Galaxies player so I've been waiting for a Star Wars MMO for a very long time.
I am also a huge KOTOR fan so... I am completely on the fence about the game because I would of preferred KOTOR 3, but at the same time a KOTOR MMO sounds pretty awesome to me.
As I said I will wait to play it until I judge it though, simple fact is Bioware could sneeze in a box, throw a star wars label on the front and I'd buy it.
I know... im a sucker :/
I have some faith in bioware based on games I've bought though it's the team and they are owned by EA now so it's hard to tell until later in development. Also I worry about art direction.
I've never used an MMO. I would have been open to a KOTOR III MMO simply for the sake that it's a continuation of one of my favorite pieces of the Star Wars universe. I think that is lucasarts was aiming to peal to KOTOR fans, they would have at least provided a single-player option as well as online gameplay.
KOTOR was built upon being single-player, but it would make sense to try something to broaden the horizon. What better way is there than to make a masterpiece that expands on something that has proven its success?
They shouldn't just create something that is ONLY multiple player, but something that can also be multiplayer. That way, it could be adaptable to both single and multi-player game lovers. Is it really that difficult to use NPC's in place of people online?
because it involves the same enemy as the KOTOR series.
If by "the same enemy" you mean the Sith, then you could apply that to every single [post-5,000 BBY] era of the entire Star Wars timeline. Either way, it still doesn't make sense because there's been numerous Sith Orders and the True Sith never appeared in either KOTOR games, anyway. On top of that, they were never even confirmed to exist until now.
I know it isn't feasible but I still wanted to see more of the Rakata. It's kind of a shame they set this in the past instead of the future since they can't do anything too radical without going completely off cannon.
The True Sith were there from the very beginning of the Mandalorian Wars. They conducted everything so that the Jedi would be destroyed... according to Revan via HK-47. The Council believed the true threat... the True Sith... had never revealed themselves because they were afraid to face the Jedi directly. This indicates that the True Sith may not have been so great a power as some have made them out to be... I won't say names.
If the True Sith couldn't directly face the Jedi even after the Civil War, then it's not so outrageous to have the story start shortly after TSL. If there were ever a time that they would have attacked the Republic or Jedi, it was then. They would not have just decided to give them time to recover so that they could have a fair fight. The idea that they would wait 300 years after TSL is ridiculous.
The True Sith are the enemy behind everything in KOTOR and always have been. Naturally, they should be the enemy that is defeated at the end of the saga.
Or maybe the true Sith lacked numbers, and or are really smart, or are long lived and time just sorta slipped by. I could swear the true Sith interbred with those dark jedi...
Or maybe the true Sith lacked numbers, and or are really smart, or are long lived and time just sorta slipped by. I could swear the true Sith interbred with those dark jedi...Yep, this is how the Sith became what they are - native Sith of Korriban interbred with Dark Jedi. You can read about them in our game info (
http://www.starwarsmmo.net/gameinfo/sith-empire/) section.
Is it really that difficult to use NPC's in place of people online?
No, it's not difficult. However it is the content hosting that gets harder and harder.
You know I see a lot of judging going on. They haven't even shown gameplay footage. Do you know what races we can play as? What the missions will be like. What will the stories be like? How can people judge a game that they haven't seen at all? This may be the greatest game ever made. But people are judging it as if it's the worst. Granted it has just as much potential to be the worst. But as it sits now, nobody here has played it. Everything might well change once we get a few registered members here playing the game. There might also be a free trial a few years out(maybe even a year after release). Generally when you get an online game, you also get a month of subscription. So if you get the game you will be able to play.
I'm keeping an open mind about it. With luck it'll be a very good game. I intend as of now to be one of the first people playing. Most of my guild in Galaxies intend to play there as well. We'll see how I feel as more info comes out.
But with no/handful Jedi running around in that timeframe, how would that work for a MMO?
And that is my problem with the MMO's storyline. To me it screams "We weren't crafting a storyline. We were compiling an MMO and then tried to tailor some storyline to it". Seriously. It's like they thought that there just have to be tons of Jedi in the MMO or it won't be E_P-I_C. Of course Jedi need a worthy enemy. Yay! Let's throw thousands of Sith there! But where they came from? Hmmm..... Let's bring back the Naga Sadow Sith Empire. They are ьber evil = EPIC. Ohh and let's call them the Trrrrrrrue Sith. Screw Obsidian's plans to make the True Sith some different faction. Ohh, and let's rip The Original Trilogy once again by throwing some Emperor there, as if Kotor 1 wasn't enough of The Original Trilogy remake. Doesn't matter. Emperor sounds evil and EPIC. EPIC Star Wars experience. But what we're gonna do with Revan? Oh, well, he never returned from the Unknown Regions. Case closed. HAHAHA!
Yes, I'm taking it too far. But the plot for the MMO sounds really cheap and just too generic IMO. Everyone could came up with sth like this. "Hey! LucasArts here! Make me a Star Wars MMO!" - "Sure! It's gonna be a battle between The Republic and The Sith! Clever ha?". BTW BioWare already kinda used this "Cold War" (between the Republic and the Sith Empire) theme in Kotor 1 (Maanam providing kolto for both factions, recruits applying into the Jedi Academy on Dantooine or Sith Academy on Korriban etc).
Alternately there had to be tons of jedi to justify the players being majority jedi/sith,
Also the star wars story was circular from the start, Luke would fall like his father before blah, blah blah.
Are you guys sure you're star wars fans?
Screw Obsidian's plans to make the True Sith some different faction.
What plans?
let's rip The Original Trilogy once again by throwing some Emperor there, as if Kotor 1 wasn't enough of The Original Trilogy remake.
So you're saying that it's a ripoff of the OT just because there's a guy whose title is "Emperor"? That's preposterous.
News-flash: the word "emperor" has existed for thousands of years, so by your logic, the fact that Palpatine's title was "Emperor" is unoriginal, too.
BioWare already kinda used this "Cold War" (between the Republic and the Sith Empire) theme in Kotor 1 (Maanam providing kolto for both factions, recruits applying into the Jedi Academy on Dantooine or Sith Academy on Korriban etc).
Yeah, they did use it already, on one planet out of millions in the galaxy.
Are you guys sure you're star wars fans?
Logic: If you don't like everything in Star Wars, you cannot be a fan. Read one of the Karen Traviss books, or the Dark Empire series, or the LOTF series, and you may change your mind.
Logic: if you've only just noticed star wars is full of iterations you may not be a fan or you weren't paying attention.
Addendum: Screw Obsidian.