Using the middle mouse button seems to be the easiest option for controlling the elevation and orientation. The odd thing is, stoffe, while I agree that in many ways the toolset really is an interface nightmare - I've never had any stability issues at all. Strange the way different setups yield different results, eh?

I've never had any crashes either. It's very stable on my PC, although it can be slow sometimes (try to paint an armor..it takes ages to change a color :gun7:)

The interface is also a problem, but i'm guessing that once you get used to it, it's fine. Overall, i don't think the toolset is that bad. Not much worse than Oblivion's anyway.

Speaking of the toolset, do you have any idea how to properly build a module? It's so simple with KotOR, though with the toolset all the contents of the module is erased if I ever open it again after saving it.

I would recommend Neverwinter Nights 2 World Editor Guide by Phillip Marcus. I have never done any modding in my life, and it is helping me a lot with my first attempt. It really explains a lot of the things I have seen people asking about with regard to the toolset.

There are still some bugs that agravate me, like the one that will not allow me to place my newly created custom items in a chest, armor rack, etc. unless I save the new item into my module, save my module, close and reopen the toolset. You can see how that would get annoying after awhile.

I'm not sure why you would be losing your module saves. I have kept mine. When you open your mod are you seeing the areas show up in the areas window on the left?

@stoffe, I'll have to get to your post later. I don't have the time to reply to it all right now. :)

I would recommend Neverwinter Nights 2 World Editor Guide by Phillip Marcus. I have never done any modding in my life, and it is helping me a lot with my first attempt. It really explains a lot of the things I have seen people asking about with regard to the toolset.

Does it address the toolset's many random hiccups (such as this)? I've modded KotOR for a few years and NWN 1 for about half of one, so I'm familiar with the modding system already.

There are still some bugs that agravate me, like the one that will not allow me to place my newly created custom items in a chest, armor rack, etc. unless I save the new item into my module, save my module, close and reopen the toolset. You can see how that would get annoying after awhile.

I've completely lost my patience with the item creating. I just dump the item somewhere on a floor, or put in an an NPC's inventory. Exiting and saving took long enough with the NWN 1 toolset, let alone this one.

I'm not sure why you would be losing your module saves. I have kept mine. When you open your mod are you seeing the areas show up in the areas window on the left?

It got rid of them entirely. Perhaps it's due to that 'baking' feature (sheesh, KotOR and NWN 1 never needed such a thing), though I'll probably be able to discover why after experimenting with several modules.

Baking is to do with the walkmesh :).

From what I understand, the walkmesh contains all the data about the rolling terrain, be that what it looks like, or whether or not you can run beyond that rise over there. It also controls the data for tile sets too (though it seems you can place tiles down and save without baking and still see the tiles - you cannot walk on them, however). When you bake, the area saves so it shouldn't really be all that much trouble for you.

It got rid of them entirely. Perhaps it's due to that 'baking' feature (sheesh, KotOR and NWN 1 never needed such a thing), though I'll probably be able to discover why after experimenting with several modules.
You do not have to bake to save your module. Baking makes placeable objects or areas unwalkable. You have to bake in order to move around in your module when you want to test it, but not to save it.

Geez, you guys sound like you're making bread or cookies or something, rather than modding the game. :D

Just for anyone who hasn't realised yet: NWN2 1.04 final has been released (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=545765&forum=109)

Edit: I can't be certain but the new autopatcher seems to respect edited files, so no more reinstalling every time there is a new patch (it seems).

Just for anyone who hasn't realised yet: NWN2 1.04 final has been released (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=545765&forum=109)


Well, that patch certainly gives the impression of being rushed. What I've noticed during my first 5 minutes of testing:
There's a group of radio buttons on the options screen without any text caption on them saying what they are for.

Half the entries in the Voicechat menu have "(null)" instead of a descriptive name, and some play the wrong animation.

Any voicechat commands you move the the quickbar gets dimmed whenever you're shapechanged or polymorphed (though they still work if you use the voicechat menu instead)

I can't move/drag anything into the new extra Quickbars you can add to the screen. For some reason the extra quickbar decided to mirror one of the quickbar pages on the main bar, but I can't figure out how you set which.

Spell Resistance granted by items still expire after being hit by a single spell (making creatures such as Fiends much easier for spellcasters to deal with since even the SR 31 of a Pit Fiend will vanish if you cast Ray of Frost once on it).


Makes you wonder if they do any testing at all before releasing those patches. Feels more like an early beta than a Final version to me. :)

OK, I gotta learn how to mod this game so that Casavir can actually give his lady at least a hug, if not a kiss, instead of standing 10 feet away from her declaring his love....
Sheesh.

OK, I gotta learn how to mod this game so that Casavir can actually give his lady at least a hug, if not a kiss, instead of standing 10 feet away from her declaring his love....
Sheesh.

Seems like both Bioware and Obsidian favor long-distance relationships. Was the same in KotOR with Revan and Carth shouting their love across the beach on the Rakatan Homeworld. :)

Not much in the way of romances in NWN2. Even the HotU expansion pack was much better in that regard.

Seems like both Bioware and Obsidian favor long-distance relationships. Was the same in KotOR with Revan and Carth shouting their love across the beach on the Rakatan Homeworld. :)

I guess Bastila and male Revan's relationship was portayed better...with a black screen :p Oh well, at least they were standing close to each other. :D

Well, that patch certainly gives the impression of being rushed. What I've noticed during my first 5 minutes of testing:
There's a group of radio buttons on the options screen without any text caption on them saying what they are for.

Half the entries in the Voicechat menu have "(null)" instead of a descriptive name, and some play the wrong animation.

Any voicechat commands you move the the quickbar gets dimmed whenever you're shapechanged or polymorphed (though they still work if you use the voicechat menu instead)

I can't move/drag anything into the new extra Quickbars you can add to the screen. For some reason the extra quickbar decided to mirror one of the quickbar pages on the main bar, but I can't figure out how you set which.

Spell Resistance granted by items still expire after being hit by a single spell (making creatures such as Fiends much easier for spellcasters to deal with since even the SR 31 of a Pit Fiend will vanish if you cast Ray of Frost once on it).


Makes you wonder if they do any testing at all before releasing those patches. Feels more like an early beta than a Final version to me. :)

They screwed up quick casting from 1.03 to 1.04. In the 1.04 version you target your NPCs not your enemies. :roleyess: :swear:

Dumb question--do you have it on hardcore, Aratoelder? Your NPCs will take damage from spells if they happen to be in the area/cone/line of effect.
I discovered this when Jimbo had turned it to hardcore for his new game (and I didn't realize it also affected mine), and I started playing and saw that Sand had just done 71 points of damage to all my party members with some uber-spell. :)

I tried the new patch yesterday and had to uninstall almost instantly. It seems to me that it breaks more things than it fixes. I couldn't even access the quickcast menu by pressing "f" (and no quick cast for a warlock makes the game unplayable) , nor toggle the minimap on/off. I wonder if they did any testing themselves or if they just left it to the community to report the bugs from the beta patch... :dozey:

Maybe it would be worth mentioning those bugs here: http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=545775&forum=109)

I couldn't even access the quickcast menu by pressing "f" , nor toggle the minimap on/off.

Hmm, haven't noticed any problems with the quick-cast or minimap. Try resetting your key-bindings to the defaults and re-set them, it's possible one of the INI files have become messed up during the update.

The game works fine for me, with the patch. Maybe you should delete nwn.ini or nwnplayer.ini and try again.

Dumb question--do you have it on hardcore, Aratoelder? Your NPCs will take damage from spells if they happen to be in the area/cone/line of effect.
I discovered this when Jimbo had turned it to hardcore for his new game (and I didn't realize it also affected mine), and I started playing and saw that Sand had just done 71 points of damage to all my party members with some uber-spell. :)

When I press "F" the quick spell menu comes up. After I have selected the offensive spell that I want. I can only target my my NPCs not the enemy. Yet casting the same spell from a quick slot works fine. :rolleyes:

Edit: This is on the normal difficulty.

Edit2: Yes I know how AoE spells work I have been playing PnP-CRPG DnD games since version 1.0. Hell I remember the first edition of "Legends of Lore" containing H.P. Lovecraft Call of Cthulhu information. There was another mythos group that was included only in the very first edition of "Legends of Lore". However I cannot remember what group that was.

Sorry Aratoelder, I wasn't trying to make you look dumb or be patronizing. :)
In problem solving I start with the simplest/obvious stuff first, and the hardcore thing had just happened to me like a day or 2 prior, so it was fresh in my mind. If we had installed the patch right about then, I would have assumed it was a patch problem and not necessarily have thought to check to see if the hardcore setting had also been applied to my game when Jimbo changed it for his.
And off on a tangent, I wonder if the devs ever thought about more than one family member playing the game at the same time and allowing the difficulty settings to be individualized by each player for their own personal play-throughs.

And off on a tangent, I wonder if the devs ever thought about more than one family member playing the game at the same time and allowing the difficulty settings to be individualized by each player for their own personal play-throughs.

Do you use your own user accounts on the computer? From what I can see there is a Difficulty setting in the nwnplayer.ini file that is kept in the NWN2 folder inside the user-unique My Documents folder.

We don't have separate user accounts, but we could try that. And unless we're missing something, they don't have an option in the save/load game section for different characters like they do in TSL, so all our savegames are jumbled together. We solved the problem by putting our first initial in each of our own savegames, but it'd be nice if we could organize the savegames by player. :)

We don't have separate user accounts, but we could try that. And unless we're missing something, they don't have an option in the save/load game section for different characters like they do in TSL, so all our savegames are jumbled together.

If you use separate accounts on the computer that should take care of this too, since savegames are stored in the NWN2 folder inside My Documents as well. Just keep in mind that anything you put inside this folder (mods, characters etc) only will be available when that user is logged in on the computer. Things that should take effect for everyone needs to be put inside the main NWN2 folder. :)

Sorry Aratoelder, I wasn't trying to make you look dumb or be patronizing. :)
In problem solving I start with the simplest/obvious stuff first, and the hardcore thing had just happened to me like a day or 2 prior, so it was fresh in my mind. If we had installed the patch right about then, I would have assumed it was a patch problem and not necessarily have thought to check to see if the hardcore setting had also been applied to my game when Jimbo changed it for his.

No problem Jae.

I am running three different characters my first time through. I have no problems moving save files in and out of the Save folder.

Edit: Do what stoffe posted and you shouldn't have any problems.

Spoiler Warning





Ending:

Narrator: Yay!!!! You beat the King of Shadows!!!! Too bad you're dead. So sorry.
:roleyess:


OK, what class to play for the next playthru--so many possibilities.... :D















Spoiler warning

! Too bad you're dead. So sorry.
:roleyess:

It happens whether you want to replace the KoS in the typical bad guy manner, too. I could swear Obsidian thought up that ending just to annoy the fans.

Nothing modding can't fix... Provided you can get the toolset to work, and that it won't conflict with the patches.

OK, what class to play for the next playthru--so many possibilities.... :D

I'd try a spellcasting class (wizard, cleric, warlock, etc). Preferably with a different gender and alignment, too - my playthrough as a lawful good female paladin has been very different from being a lawful evil male wizard.

Ending:
Narrator: Yay!!!! You beat the King of Shadows!!!!
:roleyess:
OK, what class to play for the next playthru--so many possibilities.... :D


The ending narration was one of the worst game endings I've seen in quite a while, almost rivalling the awful ending in Planescape:Torment. But, given the ending in TSL (and that some of the PS:Torment designers now work at Obsidian) that probably shouldn't have come as a big surprise. Good endings seem to be hard to make, even in otherwise good games.


Though techicaly you aren't really pronounced dead, just that the old Illefarn temple collapses around you. Since I still had the Tome of Iltkhazar in my inventory I prefer to assume they used it to escape to another plane (NWN:SoU-style) rather than get killed by falling debris.


As for class I would second eDevon's suggestion to pick a spellcasting class, since those require quite a different approach to playing. Trying another approach on the Law/Chaos scale or a different race or gender can lead to dialog differences as well.

My first playthrough was as a Female Aasimar Cleric (Lawful Good), my current one is a Female Dark Elf Warlock (Chaotic Good), and I've seen numerous small gameplay differences between the two games so far.


It happens whether you want to replace the KoS in the typical bad guy manner, too. I could swear Obsidian thought up that ending just to annoy the fans.
Nothing modding can't fix... Provided you can get the toolset to work, and that it won't conflict with the patches.

Those are both problems for the moment though (half-broken toolset and auto-updater conflicts if messing with the campaign modules). Personally I think I'll just stop playing after the end battle and skip the ending narration entirely. :)

Did anyone notice that the voice actor for the ending narration sounds exacly the same as the TV news reporter from Vampire: Bloodlines?

Personally I think I'll just stop playing after the end battle and skip the ending narration entirely. :)
I was thinking of simply cutting down the .dlg file for the ending narration for my next playthrough. This ending is probably the worst I've seen. I hate those you win but you loose endings :mad: And the evil ending is not an evil ending, it's a completely moronic ending...I don't see any reason why would my evil pc who has the power to destroy this abomination (edit: would) chose to become his thrall? :rolleyes:

Did anyone notice that the voice actor for the ending narration sounds exacly the same as the TV news reporter from Vampire: Bloodlines?
Didn't noticed that. The only thing I noticed is that he sounded as if they asked forced the janitor in the building to do the narration...and he sounds extremely bored too.

I was thinking of simply cutting down the .dlg file for the ending narration for my next playthrough. This ending is probably the worst I've seen.

That might be a good way to do it. If you stick the DLG file in the override folder it should replace the one in the module without altering the module file. Unless they've goofed up naming files uniquely again...

I hate those you win but you loose endings :mad: And the evil ending is not an evil ending, it's a completely moronic ending...I don't see any reason why would my evil pc who has the power to destroy this abomination chose to become his thrall? :rolleyes:

At least evil-aligned players had the option to be idiots. :) Good aligned players were given no choice but to do the right thing.


Did anyone notice that the voice actor for the ending narration sounds exacly the same as the TV news reporter from Vampire: Bloodlines?

It does sound familiar now that you mention it. At least the voice somewhat fits for a bored news reporter having the midnight shift. Doesn't really fit at all for the narrator of an epic fantasy adventure. :)

Spoiler: End game discussion below














Personally I think I'll just stop playing after the end battle and skip the ending narration entirely.

Is there any way to change the end video a bit, rearrange the sequence of images, and then change the writing/remove the voiceover? That way, we all get the ending we _really_ want.... :)

In the images, you're seen running, then the explosion. Change that so you see the flash first and then the building collapse. You see the Kosh's energy start to explode and you run. If you take the voiceover out, you could change the writing in the collapse scene to something like 'you're running, but you a. escape in the nick of time or b.use the tome to teleport out. Then you can show the Crossroad keep and just say everyone's celebrating. You can remove the Breilana/Kana scenes (who cares about them at the end to be honest, they're minor characters). Daeghun can go patrol the Mere for any sign of return of evil, since that's very much in his nature. Bevil can get knighted if you have to have Bevil's story tied up, otherwise delete that scene also. I don't even need my party members' lives tied up--we can just be one happy party at the end of the story and leave major life decisions about 'what to do next' for another time--all you really need is the celebration, like at the end of Kotor. Maybe the scene with Nasher is just showing him defeating his bunch of enemies, and he then travels to the keep to make you an Earl/Countess or something like that. Having Daeghun patrol the Mere for more evil is a good enough hint of another adventure/expansion, and since Daeghun has been with you off and on thru the whole game, seeing him at the end makes sense.

If it's an evil ending you're after, say you've tapped into the Weave, become the new KoSh, and you're going to go destroy Neverwinter and take over all of Faerun or something like that.















Spoiler: End game discussion above

Jae, go into the toolset and open up 3400_Merdelain.mod. The dialogue in question is 3430_ending. From there you can remove the voice over in the "node" tab of each dialogue node :). It should be fairly simple from there to edit it as you wish and save the file into the .mod file (backup your old one, in case future patches have issues with edited module files).

Those are both problems for the moment though (half-broken toolset and auto-updater conflicts if messing with the campaign modules). Personally I think I'll just stop playing after the end battle and skip the ending narration entirely. :)

I'm too much of a nitpicker to leave the game the way the devs made it. Creating backup copies of the original and my modified modules isn't that bad. :)

And the evil ending is not an evil ending, it's a completely moronic ending...I don't see any reason why would my evil pc who has the power to destroy this abomination chose to become his thrall? :rolleyes:

Because your PC was enough of a moron to believe s/he was 'being pledged to a greater cause'. Yay, an eternity of undeath and servitude in a small patch of the Sword Coast.

all you really need is the celebration, like at the end of Kotor. Maybe the scene with Nasher is just showing him defeating his bunch of enemies, and he then travels to the keep to make you an Earl/Countess or something like that.

That shouldn't be too hard. You'd have to make a new area, write up the dialogue and make a few scripts for it.

Making the PC a Lord would be more fitting IMO. It looks like the highest title the nobility have, and the PC probably has a similar status to an Earl or a Count already (being part of the Neverwinter Nine).

If it's an evil ending you're after, say you've tapped into the Weave, become the new KoSh, and you're going to go destroy Neverwinter and take over all of Faerun or something like that.

The Shadow Weave, actually. :)

A standard-fare evil ending of a bunch of troops marching around with the PC sitting on a large throne should do it.

Because your PC was enough of a moron to believe s/he was 'being pledged to a greater cause'. Yay, an eternity of undeath and servitude in a small patch of the Sword Coast.

Argh! My post was supposed to read "would chose" and not just "chose". Ok, I admit that I reloaded after the end and tried that option once just to see the final narration but I had to turn on god mode as even with Bishop's help, I got by butt kicked in seconds by my party as they all had an armor rating of 35+, Casavir and Khelgar being in the 40's, and they were equipped with resist magic and regeneration items and the best weapons I could find/make...the KoS was a child's play in comparison :p

Yeah, I forgot to properly equip Neeshka before that. :D I'm going to alter the equipment of certain other characters before the final battles in the future. :D

even with Bishop's help, I got by butt kicked in seconds by my party as they all had an armor rating of 35+, Casavir and Khelgar being in the 40's, and they were equipped with resist magic and regeneration items and the best weapons I could find/make...the KoS was a child's play in comparison :p

The obvious benefits of being a wizard... Several empowered Ice Storms, and the battle was over in seconds. :p

Yeah, I forgot to properly equip Neeshka before that. :D I'm going to alter the equipment of certain other characters before the final battles in the future. :D

It actually won't make much of a difference if you equip them with rusty butter knives. If the equipment your companions have isn't worth much, the KoS will give them all shadow gear. (Which is actually pretty decent stuff - especially with how it reduces all weight by 80%)

A hotfix (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=547573&forum=109) has been released so that you can actually use helmets in the toolset again :).

*Does happy dance*

I can just imagine a paladin in a feathered hat.... :D

Mod note: Now that there is a whole forum for other games there is no need to put everything related to NWN2 in one thread. Separate threads for each NWN2-related topic make it more easy to browse so I'll close this. Feel free to continue discussing this in new threads.

Still, now that they're not making sequels to other people's games, Avellone might get back into the swing of things.

Play MotB. It's well worth the cash. Hell, it's worth buying NWN2 just to be able to play MotB. Unfortunately, George Ziets (the creative lead) has left Obsidian now to spend more time with his family -- I thought only Tory MPs could do that over allegations about their sexuality.

Edit: The only poor parts of MotB are the Academy (which is essentially one giant puzzle) and the fact that it isn't long enough.

Come on... how can you not like a fallen angel who is of good alignment and sees morality only in black and white and is, as such, literally colour blind?

Yeah, I might sometime later, but at the moment, I don't know where my copy of NWN2 is anyway, so it's a moot point.

Is the mediocore game NWN2 ? I atleast thinks it good. Some part of the game is really bad, like Old Owl Well, but the rest i think it's good. Evrything after you have got Ammon is in my opinion very good, and the ending didnt bug me as much as many people seemed to have been by it

ROCKS FALL EVERYONE DIES.

And, yes, the kingdom is situated on a featureless plain.

They never say evryones dies, that what you assumed happend. If you have a IQ over 10 you probaly figure out there would been a expansion that told you what happend, that was atleast the first thing i though


Mod note: Let's leave the speculations about the intellectual capacity of other posters out of this thread, shall we? :tsk: ~M

Okay, let me quote it directly. The dungeon begins to collapse. Your party makes a run for it, but you cannot escape. The walls tumble down around you. Nobody knows what become of you. You and your friends are never heard from again.

That says rather clearly to me "Oh, we couldn't think of a decent ending, so we decided to just kill you."

And, two things. One, when I finished the NWN2 campaign, Mask of the Betrayer hadn't yet been announced. And, two, the original Neverwinter Nights had extremely little to do, plotwise, with Shadows of Undrentide and only tied into Hordes of the Underdark near the very end.

split NWN2 discussion from Alpha protocol thread and merged here. Carry on. :)

@Corinthian, it's just a conspiracy to whip fanfic authors into a FRENZY!! They scream! They wail their misery! They writh in awful agony as plot bunnies compress their brains into a mush of tangled stories!!

Ahem.

Anyway, it's more or less meant to be a standalone game, no? But out of curiosity, does anyone know how much time passes between the first and second games? (enough time for Nasher to go completely bald, it seems:p)

And, two things. One, when I finished the NWN2 campaign, Mask of the Betrayer hadn't yet been announced.

So you didn't play MOTB? I got NWN2 and Motb.. and I was massively disappointed by Nwn2 as well. I stopped playing it mid-game and went on to play motb..

And let me tell you, motb is far far better. In the original campaign, it took me at least 15 hours to get half way interested in the story, whereas in motb I was drawn into the story right at the beginning. Give it a try.

Actually, I should re-acquire Mask of the Betrayer within four hours. My brother currently has it and he's at College, but he's moving out sometime today, hopefully. I put myself through the campaign again for giggles just so I could get freshly ticked off when Shandra died and I had to team up with Ammon, the tat-faced scumbag.

Have all the bugs mentioned in the reviews I've seen been fixed by patches yet?

My last few playthroughs of MotB were entirely bug-free, so I'd venture so.

Playing NWN1 is like taking valium.