Dev, how many times have you played MotB?

@DI, hey, bashing in countless orc skulls may be adequate stimulus for some:/

@DI, hey, bashing in countless orc skulls may be adequate stimulus for some:/
Oh, it's fine. Up until Port (ever)Llast(ing)...

It's lackluster Official Campaign (yes, it SUCKED) and horrendous graphics aside, after playing BG2 I found NWN1 a real letdown. Not in the least because of the smaller party size (three at the most -WTH?) and the severe limitations (when compared to BG2) imposed on the amount of control the player has over their NPCs (leveling, controling their actions in combat, etc). It simply did not appeal to the micro-management control freak in me as BG2 did.

How does NWN2 compare in this regard?

It's better in every way (I stopped playing when I got to port everlast, but actually finished nwn2), though I'll not call it exactly good. You controll your party members, you can have more of them (3or4+pc iirc, more using cheats). Besides, it has some truly epic moments, and the last boss is one of the harder around, try to beat him on hard without pausing if you want a micro challenge:D

I haven't quite finished NWN1--NWN2 came out about the time I got midway through it, and I found NWN2 far more interesting and with much better graphics. I love the dialog--Sand and Grobnar have some of the most hilarious lines peppered throughout the game. I use the party member cheat just so I can hear all the banter back and forth.

Some of the banter in BG2 is pretty priceless as well. Have you ever played it, Jae?

Most remember that one on my next playthourgh that you can ahve more party members. They maybe are to many on vanila, but in MotB it should work good

I preferred the OC to what I've played so far of MotB (Apart from the OC's horrendous rockfall ending). This has nothing to do with how bitter I am at having spent 2 hours running about Death God's Vault before realizing I was supposed to go back to the mortal plane and talk to the priest. Not at all.

I just found the OC welcoming and enjoyable to play, even when surrounded by the forces of darkness. MotB is just one "Ha ha, you've been screwed over" after another.

Can't really comment on how it compares to NWN1, as my only experience with the first is playing the tutorial on a friend's laptop a few years back and becoming horribly bored and confused, whereas I finished NWN2 with great pleasure and would do so again had I not gotten my mildly grubby mitts on Baldur's Gate.

How does NWN2 compare in this regard?

Depends which campaign you want to compare it with. While NWN2's OC had better party members and a generally more interesting storyline, at heart it was really just a 'save the world from the bad guys' story without any deeper meaning or theme to it.

Not to say it didn't have some moments or interesting characters - the haven at the end of the second act could've passed as something of Avellone's (though only stylistically), and the party member who joins you at the start of the third act had quite a bit of depth to him. There was also some amusing banter with the various companions, and various snippets of the game were enjoyable.

Bah, all my comments are coming across as contradictory. From beginning to end, I find the whole of the OC to be rather like this:

(Optional tutorial) meh. Start of game - pretty engaging. Pre-Neverwinter - still engaging, but definitely less so. Neverwinter - blah. Boring. Orc caves/Old Owl Well - why the **** am I even playing this? Oh my god. Blacklake District - things are getting interesting again. Ember - plot twist. Also later consequences to actions that currently seem trivial. Githyanki caves - very interesting and very engaging. Best part of Act I and the game yet.

Opening cutscene and start of Act II - definitely grabs you in. Pre-trial quests - mostly boring, in one instance annoying. Trial - very fun (it was written by Avellone). Prelude to post-trial fight - very good general mood. Assault on CRK - also done very well. Managing your keep - mixed blessing. I cheated in the required gold. Illefarn ruins - tiresome hack and slash, even more tiresome puzzle you must work with. Engaging only insofar as it contains details of relevance to the plot. <spoilered> location after that - sets a very good mood and adds depth to the plot. Haven - best part of the game. Avellone's touch was there, stylistically at least.

Castle Never - engaging. But the 'puzzles' with the statues were both unrealistic and uninteresting. Quests prior to battle - tedious, pretty meh all around. Nolaloth - pretty interesting. <spoilered> location after all the shards are found - excellent mood. If only it was like this in the more boring parts of the game. <optional spoilered area> - a rare moment where character development can take place, also worth doing. Siege of <spoilered> - all around pretty fun to do. Fortress of the main bad guy - extremely tedious, wearisome, generally pointless hacking and slashing. Final battle - done pretty well. Ending - terrible. Probably different for anyone who knows there's going to be an expansion.

One of the biggest grips I had with the OC, though, was how railroaded the plot was. There's very little player choice (and even less consequence) to it all.

For the expansion pack, I must defer to Vault Dweller's (excellently written) review (http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=159). He's clear proof you can despise the OC and still enjoy the expansion. Personally I think it gives PS:Torment and KotOR II a run for their money. If you liked either of those games, playing MotB is a must. You can always skip the OC if you find it boring - playing it isn't entirely necessary. MotB is mostly independent of its story, which is all given in a summary to you in your journal anyway.

This has nothing to do with how bitter I am at having spent 2 hours running about Death God's Vault before realizing I was supposed to go back to the mortal plane and talk to the priest. Not at all.

I'd hope so... gameplay, however annoying or fun it may be, really isn't what makes a game what it is.

I just found the OC welcoming and enjoyable to play, even when surrounded by the forces of darkness. MotB is just one "Ha ha, you've been screwed over" after another.

Personally, I find the best stories are ones where the PC is tied into them, has a vested interest in their outcome and a general reason to say 'I care what happens. I have a reason to!' Whether it's Irenicus stealing the PC's soul in BG2, trying to discover your past in both TSL and PS:T, there has to be something the player has invested in the story or they have no incentive to participate in it.

Typically, screwing the PC over is what gives them that reason to care. It's really the only objective reason they have to. Part of what didn't make NWN2's OC as engaging as it could've been for me was that my PC didn't have any reason to care about the story. Yeah, Neverwinter and West Harbor could get screwed. But my PC was totally uninvolved in it all. (The shards of Gith's sword were, oh yes, but they weren't my PC.)