I think that the concept of giving this new pirate the SSD Eclipse is really pointless . In addition,isnt the Eclipse supposed to be at the hands of the reborn Emperor? I hope this is just a joke and that the devs are gonna fix that as soon as possible

How exactly do you know, is it the Eclipse, or some other SSD?
And he doesn't have it at start of the campaign afaik, he gets it somewhere during it or at the end of it..

Your whinging of the expansion before nothing else than just 1 tiny blurb of information is out..Petroglyph is creating their own story you know, they might not follow what you would think as canon to the letter.

Yeah exactly... don't start throwing stones yet as we dont even know that much about the expansion itself. The deal is at the very begining you can expect the pirate leader to be VERY weak but over time he builds up his powers of corruption, etc. So by the end you will be strong enough to steal the ship.

The Eclipse is a 16 km long SSD with a superlaser. It belongs to the reborn Emperor Palpatine and it is seen in the Dark Empire series. No way it gets into the hands of that noobish pirate (he is a noob afterall, since its a new character)

True, but we don't know if it is that same Eclipse they are talking about. Sure it was a bad mistake to name it the same thing but we don't know for sure. At this point I would tell you to attend the live dev chat on May 25th so you can voice your opinion to the devs themselves.

I really like your noobish pirate remark :p haha

i suggest this thread to be moved to the FoC(k) (LOL) forum

Actually I don't think I'd mind the Eclipse being the ultimate prize the Crime Lord saught. This game has been promising the ability to change the fate of the galaxy. Well, that's what you're doing here too, trying to change the fate of the galaxy in a way.

Also with characters like Durga the Hutt (http://www.theforce.net/swenc/newdescr.asp?search=7384&tab=d) who've had superlasers (http://www.theforce.net/swenc/newdescr.asp?search=6073&tab=d) in their hands in the past, and rogue warlords with SSDs (http://www.theforce.net/swenc/newdescr.asp?search=12397&tab=d) , or Booster (http://www.theforce.net/swenc/newdescr.asp?search=25335&tab=d) with his Star Destroyer (http://www.theforce.net/swenc/newdescr.asp?search=8048&tab=d) similar incedents have happened within the EU.

well its pretty obvious it is going to be the executor, seeing as how that is the time it is being built, right after the destruction of the 1st death star

EDIT: my bad i misread....WHY WOULD THEY PUT THE ECLIPSE IN THERE???

As mentioned by Darth Fergie, there have been several occassions of similar merit. After all, Warlord Zsinj was in command of an SSD, in fact he was in command of 2 SSDs for a short period of time. He was considered a rogue pirate, and there you have it.

As for the Eclipse, I'm all for that :D

Overall , i think that the idea of making pirate scums a major faction isnt bad at all. However, i strongly belive it would have been better to do that in a SECOND post ROTJ XP... Indeed, i hardly imagine the omniscient emperor letting pirates getting such a weapon. Secondly, if this pirate XP would have been set post ROTJ, it would have had all the time to develop this superweapon ala Darksaber....

The only way to make the pirate campaign "realistic" is to make the Empire defeated at Endor and let the story go on with the New Republic fighting the Imperial Remenants

We all seem to have forgotten that Empire at War is marketed as "Make your own Star Wars History." Well this is exactly that, we get to create a pirate faction and let it steal a SSD. Definetely make our own history time there.

Perhaps tis expansion goes all the way through Ep. 6 and beyond? Mabey the priates are fighting for survival until one side wins, and then they attack. You can still be the imps or rebs, just prevent the pirates from stealing it!

I was just about to ask that, can you still be the rebellion or the empire? Or are you forced to only be the pirates?

Actually I don't think I'd mind the Eclipse being the ultimate prize the Crime Lord saught. This game has been promising the ability to change the fate of the galaxy. Well, that's what you're doing here too, trying to change the fate of the galaxy in a way.

Except that the Eclipse class Super Star Destroyer is Post ROTJ. There are only a few Pre-ROTJ SSDs that I know of (Executor, Brawl (Iron Fist), Lusankya to name a few).

My guess on the Eclipse is that it is not the one that the Reborn Emperor had, but an earlier sister ship of the Executor with the same name.

You have to remember that there were 2 Unnamed SSDs in the Black Sword Command. one of them could be this "Eclipse"

Bah, why the debate? Does anyone actually think that common guy playing EaW #786 even knows that the Eclipse was post-RotJ? It's Petroglyph's moves and it affects only a few members of the community. Frankly, not worth the debate.

A congratulation Scaling pic from LoW

http://legacy.gamemod.net/images/renders/i%20got%20your%20scale%20for%20ya.jpg)

Sovereign, ISD and SSD Scaled side by side

News from PFF

http://pff.swrebellion.com/index.php?topic=3627.msg51198#msg51198)


Simple fix, make Tyber sponsored by some rogue moffs during the civil war to run their shadier operations. He's second fiddle to Xixor until Xixor buys the farm, then after endor the Moffs use his connections to try to figure out what the emperor was hiding at kuat as a secret project, but Tyber has already become a semi-warlord like Zsinj from thier wealth. Run the game 2 years post endor when the eclipse hull is withdrawn to Byss. If he is more of an evil Talon Karrde it will play better, make sense in continuity as well, since quite literally the machinations would be in the shadows and secretive and we wouldn't have a missing highly visible character in the existing storylines.

I can't go into any further detail at this point, but your suggestion is not far from the mark in several respects. Bravo! ;D

*looks around office for the EvilleJedi's hidden microphone*

There's no reason whatsoever why they can't invent a new SSD and christen it 'Eclipse'--it doesn't have to conform to every single aspect of the EU, comic art, made-up force dispositions, etc. After all, Michael Stackpole invented the Lusankya all by his self--the thing never existed before. Petroglyph can do the same thing. The one from the comics looks stupid anyways.

I have no problem with a crime lord gunning for the ship. It's the ultimate Star Wars heist!

Being the nerdy nerd that I am..... I have the Essential guie to vehiles and vessels of Star Wars.... Released back in '96 of course...

This book has the following under the Eclipse Super Star Destroyer...

-----------
Kuat Drive Yards Eclipse-Class Super Star Destroyer

Emperor Palpatine was never one for subtlety. His Empire had been built on a foundation of rule through terror. When he reappeared on the galactic stage six years after his apparent "death" at the battle of Endor, he returned to his old ways of grandioseweapons and attacks of stunning brutality. Renewed in a fresh clone body, Palpatine gathered his abilities from the remaining Imperial factions and directed his forces from a new command vessel, the Eclipse.

The Eclipse was a new Super Star Destroyer that was a stunning 17.8 kilometers long: it was twice the size of the original Super Star Destroyer and over ten times the size of Imperial Star Destroyers. The Emperor's new flag ship was as much a symbol of Palpatine's thirst for power as it was military materiel.

The incredible ship was deliberatly designed to frighten enemy forces, for a frightened enemy is a defeated enemy. The ship was solid black, and it's hull resembled that if naval warships of eras long past. The Eclipse easily achieved its objective of demoralizing enemy troops.

In combat, the Clipse's hull and shields were so strong that it could ram enemy vessels without hesitation. The ship was equipped with ten gravity-well projectors to prevent enemy vessels from escaping into hyperspace. Five hundred heavy laser cannons and 550 turbolasers made the ship capable of engaging entire New Republic fleets. The Eclipse carried fifty squadrons of TIE Interceptors (six hundred ships) and eight squadrons of TIE Bombers.

The Eclipse was also intended to devastate entire worlds. Its main weapon was a superlaser weapon, although its power was only two-thirds that of the main weapon aboard the first Death Star it was "merely" powerful enough to crack the crust of a planet rather than destroy it outright.

For ground assaults, the Eclipse carried five prefabricated garrison bases and one hundred AT-AT walkers. With a crew of over 700,000 beings and 150,000 troops, the destroyer rivaled the Death Star in sheer manpower.

The Eclipse was stopped over the Pinnacle Moon when Luke Skywalker and Leia Organa Solo joined Force energies to engulf Emperor Palpatine in a wave of life energy. This action stunned Palpatine, forcing him to lose control over the Force storms he had summoned. As Luke and Leia escaped from the Eclipse, the storms consumed and destroyed the vessel.

----------------------------------


So... It would appear that they're creating their own rendition of the ship as the Eclipse is AFTER RotJ... The TIE Phantom however is BEFORE RotJ (See Rebel Assault 2, the TIE Phantom is a TIE fighter capable of cloaking)

Vader had a Super Star Destroyer capable of cloaking in Rebel Assault 2, though to my recolection is was destroyed by 'Rookie One' and Ru Merline when they destroyed the TIE Phantom production facility it was docked with. However, it is important to bare in mind that the 'Rookie One' had stolen a TIE Phantom, which was then destroyed remotely at the end of the game.

So yeah... They appear to be re-writing Star Wars history, unless this Eclipse is a predessor to the Eclipse I described above....

So, yeah....

The expansion will most likely cover a wide period of time, starting at the destruction of Death Star I and possibly going into beyond the battle of Endor to the Eclipse. It is going to be fun to see how this works out. The TIE Phantom is an intereasting thing to include... Im not quite sure how that will work.

I bet the Phantom will be cut :p

Do the Rebels have any real counterparts to the SSDs?

If it's a ship available to GC or skirmish (like in most future mods), wouldn't the player be overwhelmingly powerful? It would kinda screw the balance, well.....unless you give A-Wings a "crash into the bridge" option ;).

Remember, the B Wing was designed to attack capital ships. I think that the rebel's counter to the SSD are going to be the B Wings, which are heavely amored and armed. I assume that they will also be very expensive

In X-Wing vs TIE Fighter the SSD was destroyed with a Corellian Corvette filed with explosives crashing into the bridge...

In RotJ the SSD was destroyed by an A-Wing crashing into the bridge....

lol, it just seems to me that most SSDs tend to either:

-Crash into larger objects
-Get blown by saboteurs
-Get rammed by some self-sacrificing suicide squad

One thing I do miss from Rebellion is the capability of disabling a planets shields or defenses using spec forces/spies. It would be nice if that concept made a return here.

The only canon SSD to be destroyed blew up for three reasons:

- "Concentrate all fire on that Super Star Destroyer."
- "Sir! We've lost the bridge deflector shield!"
- "AAAAAAAAAH!"

Turns out they were talking about the Eclipse-class Star Dreadnought <_< This has to be the worst storyline ever. A common criminal competing against a Galactic Empire and a Rebellion powerful enough to defeat it, and managing to get a giant weapon capable of destroying planets? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

It's the Eclipse-class Super Star Destroyer for sure. This will be interesting. I just hope they name it in game as the "Eclipse-class Super Star Destroyer" or "Eclipse SSD" and not "the Super Star Destroyer: Eclipse."

I guess I'd let them get away with it since they're going with the "You can change Star Wars history" line, but the Eclipse is still Post-ROTJ. Does the expansion go that far into the timeline?

Hopefully they will name all the units right(Executor-class Star Dreadnought, Eclipse-class Star Dreadnought) and actually replace non existant units(tartan) with the cannon versions that do the EXACT same thing.

Lancers were invented for the X-Wing games; they are no more 'canon' than Tartan Patrol Cruisers, which are now in the StarWars.com Databank and entered Imperial service pre-Lancer. Give that fight up already.

Lets get back on subject. One idea that petroglyph could have done is allow an eclispe to be built on each side, although only one may get it. In the regular lore, the eclipse was destroyed with the Emperor Inside it above Kuat. But once again, they are going for the, you control the outcome view for the game.

Hopefully they will name all the units right(Executor-class Star Dreadnought, Eclipse-class Star Dreadnought) and actually replace non existant units(tartan) with the cannon versions that do the EXACT same thing.

I doubt that any units will be replaced in this expansion.

I really don't like the thought of the Eclipse in the expansion; it seems more like they're trying to draw everyone back with the big toys, but failed to see that introducing TWO new Super Star Destroyer classes is overkill, in my opinion.

Besides, the Eclipse should even be there. If it were there in the movies, the Rebellion would have been crushed, no doubt.

No, the Lancer is featured greatly in the realms of EU, and is considerably more cannon that the Tartan(a ship made for one game!)

Lancers were invented for the X-Wing games; they are no more 'canon' than Tartan Patrol Cruisers, which are now in the StarWars.com Databank and entered Imperial service pre-Lancer. Give that fight up already.


Wrong.. Lancers were introduced in the Thrawn Trilogy

No, the Lancer is featured greatly in the realms of EU, and is considerably more cannon that the Tartan(a ship made for one game!)

I say it again; I doubt any units would be replaced.

Turns out they were talking about the Eclipse-class Star Dreadnought <_< This has to be the worst storyline ever. A common criminal competing against a Galactic Empire and a Rebellion powerful enough to defeat it, and managing to get a giant weapon capable of destroying planets? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Prince Xizor's Black Sun was so powerful that he could consider, and actually did, face off against Lord Vader himself. So no, your perception of the storyline is what is the worst ever, not the story itself. Who said anything about Tyber being a common criminal?

who is Tyber afterall ?? its sad they havn't chosen the hutt faction, as they DID get a superweapon (the darksaber), which is a far more realistic superweapon then the Eclipse SSD, as it features a far smaller crew, and is more suitable for a pirate faction

Prince Xizor's Black Sun was so powerful that he could consider, and actually did, face off against Lord Vader himself. So no, your perception of the storyline is what is the worst ever, not the story itself. Who said anything about Tyber being a common criminal?

When exactly did he face off against Vader? I remember Xizor trying to subvertly destroy Vader, like killing Luke, etc. I never remember Xizor going into open conflict with Vader.

Why would he? He was the Emperor's friend; he had nothing to gain inciting a war between the Black Sun and the Empire. And there has, as of late, been no correlation between Tyber and the Black Sun.

So yes, I believe his storyline perception IS correct. I also believe it not to be very pliable that the Empire would allow their most POWERFUL Star Dreadnought to fall into the hands of Pirates; the Empire may have been sloppy, but not that sloppy.

To solve this is simple, edit the XML that makes the eclipse a pirate side and then make another unit on the pirate that is amost as equally powerful. In the end you can solve the problem yourself. It is not a big deal right now, coincidering how moddable the game will be.

I still prefer the Executor anyway..... Stupid palpantine wanneby pirate...

Stop whining, we get to play with the Eclipse! Eclipse = teh secks!!

Maybe it's just me, but from watching the videos it looks like the Eclipse is a "background" unit, like the Death Star. It hangs untouchable in the background and fires its laser at certain intervals. Is this correct?

I Doubt it and who ever said Tyber Zann steals ESSD is correct but if that is true we would need 2 super weapon killers :P

we have Lando now we need a job interview for heros :P

Well, the Empire gets Super Star Destroyers and the Pirates get an Eclipse. Maybe you can take on the Eclipse with 20 SSDs?

If it is true and Eclipse super star destroyer would have a looooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggg recharge Time atleast Tyber Zann gets IG-88 and the lady of the sith bire or what ever..

I'm not so sure it's set in stone that Zann gets the Eclipse. My guess is that the Underworld campaign is centred on GETTING the Eclipse, and if you succeed you get to use it in the last mission. If it is in the Galactic Conquest game at all I'm betting that it costs a bundle, requires level 5 research and moves really, really slow.

But I still think it's a background unit. It doesn't seem to have any hardpoints in any of the screens I've seen, and no one seems to be targetting it. I'm thinking it'll be like Death Star II, hanging back from the action and taking potshots at other ships, maybe even spawning some garrisoned units like the Death Star does.

After having waited with baited breath for the expansion and having just watched the trailer all I can say is the expansion looks…stupid…a pirate faction getting a capital ship that dwarfs a super star destroyer, with enough power to destroy a planet (effectively) is just nuts. The Eclipse is simply titanic. If you want to see a comparison from the Dark Empire sourcebook regarding ship scales then go to this site below. Mind you this site argues the true length of the standard Super Star Destroyer is 19km, which is that of the Eclipse. http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/books/weg/ships.gif)

I have already seen a lot of points raised already, and this is just my two cents worth but it just stuffs up the accepted star wars history and is really implausible.

Some have said that since Xizor’s outfit could take on Vader that this criminals power grab is plausible….wrong. Xizor got owned and got owned by a small portion of the Empires military might. If any faction in the SW universe grew dangerous enough they would be dealt with accordingly by either the Rebels or the Empire, especially if they have such juicy technology as claimed in the demo. The Empire can spend unimaginable amounts of credits on R&D but some glorified smuggler/galactic drug dealer gets his hands on advanced tech first? Yeah right. And a Sith witch? C'mon, give me a break. The two Sith dudes running the galaxy would be more closely aligned to her than the criminals.

I saw reference to all these storylines where criminals and others got their hands on ISDs and SSDs and to be frank; all that is retarded too. If it’s expanded universe, its just crap. I don’t even want the Eclipse in the game because it’s from Dark Empire and that is nothing but a spin off. That goes for SOTE too. That was dumb. As if the Emperor would get rid of one of the last jedi in the galaxy in favour of some criminal. The line should be drawn at ROTJ. If Empire at War is going down the EU tangent, and messing up the time line; bring on the World Devastators and Sun Crushers and all those other ridiculous super weapons. And I really don’t think the Eclipse will be a background unit. How else are you supposed to destroy it? Good ol’ Red Squadron? What about the Empire? If it is set after ROTJ, Vader is dead and the second DS is space junk? What’s the Empire going to do?

I saw a remark that EAW was marketed as “make your own star wars history” but that is all it is, a marketing ploy. All games where the player can play as the Empire are going to allow the possibility to an Empire victory, but they do so without stuffing up the accepted history too much. Rebellion was a great game for sticking closely to the true Star Wars history and personally, I would have liked to have seen the graphics of EAW with the strategic view of Rebellion. That was such a cool game, even though the ships capabilities were inaccurate for equality. And the mighty Lancer frigate made an appearance in that game if you remember; and in X:Wing Alliance.

I don’t think the TIE Phantoms should be in it; I think they should be Advanced’s instead, at least this ties (pardon the pun) in with Vaders TIE X-1 and the flight sim games etc, although their performance could not be much better than the new Interceptors otherwise they will be unbalancing. The new interceptors will probably be the best fighter available. Though they could always compensate by jacking up the price. Personally they don’t need to include any other fighter than the interceptor for the Empire. The Lancer frigate was described as far back as the WEG SW RPG in the Imperial Sourcebook, first Ed in 1989, two years before Zahn’s books. It was apparently first built after the destruction of the first Death Star. I am one of those in favour of renaming the Tartan.

The B-wings I expect will be overly effective against capital ships but this will be needed for parity. They will be tough but vulnerable to fighters as expected.

Personally, though I love SSDs, I don’t know how practical they are going to be in game. Corvettes are microscopic in comparison; Have a look at IGN’s website:

http://media.pc.ign.com/media/827/827314/imgs_1.html)

What I would like to see is options for star destroyers. Since it’s accepted that there are two versions, the later model should feature heavier firepower for increased cost. And how about these options for debate:

*Rebel Frigates can spawn 1 Sqdn of X-Wings
*Mon Cals can spawn 1x X-Wing, A-Wing, and Y-Wing (or B-Wing) Sqdns
*ISDs to compensate for Mon Cals fighters gains an extra 2x TL, 2x Ion
*Victory SDs weapons changed to 2x TL, 4x Torps, and made slower
*Allow upgrade to Victory II which has 4x TL, 2x Ion, slightly faster than Victory SD.
*Allow upgrade to Imperial II which has 4x Hvy TL, 2x TL, 2x Ion
*Introduce Rebel Bulk Cruiser which has 2xLC and 1x X-Wing, A-Wing, and Y-Wing (or B-Wing) Sqdns
*Introduce Carrack cruiser with 1 TL 2x LC 1xTIE scout sqdn
*Introduce Strike cruiser with 2x TL 1x Ion 1xTIE sqdn
*Maybe even introduce a dreadnought with 2x TL 2x LC 1xTIE sqdn

As for ground stuff, the only real necessary inclusion is TIE fighters for the Empire. Rebels dont really need anything, they kick butt on the ground as is plus they are getting Yoda and Luke.

I hope the developers read this and change a few things before its release. I really wish they went back in time and did a clone wars version with Venators, Acclamators (in the time period they should be), Dreadnoughts and CIS vessels, jedi fighters, clones, droids, gunships etc. Now that would be good.

ahhh finally a reasonable person posting here

First of all, there are no Sith witches in the game. The Dathomiri witches have nothing whatsoever to do with the Sith.

On the subject of the Lancer I agree with you. Why invent a new ship that does exactly the same when there's already an existing one? That looks cooler, to boot.

Could a criminal organization stand up to the Empire in a toe-to-toe slugfest of military might? Of course not, as Xizor found out in Shadows of the Empire. However, in subterfuge, manipulation and deviousness they could certainly hold their own. And since this is a computer game and not real life, they could hardly NOT give the underworld faction warships and ground troops. That would be pretty boring.

Of course the unit scales are off. If everything was to scale we wouldn't be able to see the starfighters at all next to the capital ships. Again, it's a computer game, not an engineering thesis.

Finally I would just like to say that if the thought of these things bug you so much, don't buy the game. It really is that simple.

Forget it Anarch. Like my friend Pablo always says:"There will always be whine."