Mandead, the pop cap isn't the issue, it's the pop value of the units themselves that I feel needs rebalancing.
As for the Marauder, please bear in mind that the Broadside and Tartan were created just for this game. Thus there's no reason why the Rebels couldn't take a "stock" hull like the Marauder and convert it to a different purpose. There is ample precedent for the Rebels doing that with other hulls. The medical frigate, the Mon Cal MC80, and the Assault frigate are all conversions from other ship designs. Why not the Marauder? You should get over your hangup about it having to be a laser corvette. ;)
Mandead, the pop cap isn't the issue, it's the pop value of the units themselves that I feel needs rebalancing.
As for the Marauder, please bear in mind that the Broadside and Tartan were created just for this game. Thus there's no reason why the Rebels couldn't take a "stock" hull like the Marauder and convert it to a different purpose. There is ample precedent for the Rebels doing that with other hulls. The medical frigate, the Mon Cal MC80, and the Assault frigate are all conversions from other ship designs. Why not the Marauder? You should get over your hangup about it having to be a laser corvette. ;)
It doesn't have to be, I just like things to be canon. Understand?
But it's up to Adonnay, I suppose.
Well I am working on leaving the old one (modified) in and adding the laser variant as new one. The long range missiles though will not be able to target fighters, will do less damage but have an increased accuracy.
Does that sound fair? (I don't want to be known as the one ignoring the wishes of the community ;) )
Deal :)
The original can be as is canon, and the missle variant can be more expensive, and a higher tech level?
Missiles that do less damage but are more accurate is okay by me but, just so you know, that's the opposite of the way Star Wars missiles are (especially those in the RPGs). I also have no problem with the Rebel missile boat being more expensive and/or higher tech (level 3 is where it should be, with the new canon version at level 2). All I ask is that the original version be the missile variant. Otherwise my savegames get screwed up.
Well, it's not my mod, but I'd do the opposite. The original Marauder is a laser corvette (level 2?), whereas your modified version would be the missile variant, which would be tech 3 or 4.
On another note, I don't see how your save games really have anything to do with the overall set up of the mod.
I'm not trying to be offensive or anything here, just... well, fair.
Missiles that do less damage but are more accurate is okay by me but, just so you know, that's the opposite of the way Star Wars missiles are (especially those in the RPGs). I also have no problem with the Rebel missile boat being more expensive and/or higher tech (level 3 is where it should be, with the new canon version at level 2). All I ask is that the original version be the missile variant. Otherwise my savegames get screwed up.
Okay, here's the version with the missiles modified and the laser variant as an extra version (not available yet in GC). The missle marauder is now where it always was (tech and cost wise). It's just a special version for you to not "corrupt" your savegames ;)
Version .006b or Tal-Special-Version (
http://www.adonnai.de/eaw/Adonnay_eaw_006b.zip) ;)
PS: This is only temporary as I have to figure out yet where to place those versions... and for that I have to find out how strong they are by testing.
Excellent, so the standard version has the canon version? :)
PS: Go on MSN ;)
I propose the original be L3 and the new one be L2. The only difference between us, mandead, is that I want the *original* to be the missile variant. And the reason for that is so that I (and anyone else in my position) doesn't have their existing games messed up. That's ... fair. Doing things your way, mandead, is "unfair" in that the ships I built (as missile boats) would no longer be what they were intended to be. I'd have to rebuild all my fleets with "new" Marauders. Doing it my way the only thing that changes is the cost and tech level of the ships I've already built. Which path should be taken by Adonnay (IMO) should be obvious from the standpoint of compatibility. Doing it your way "breaks" people's savegames. That's not a polite thing to do. And it's totally unnecessary.
You're right Tal, to be honest I haven't thought about people having savegames using my mod. I just noticed the missiles do target fighters... somehow the filters don't work. But right now I don't have the time anymore (@mandead)... have to get up at 1:45 am and have alot of work to do tomorrow. I will probably not be back before saturday... so I hope this version works and you have fun ;)
Adonnay, I just want to again thank you for all your hard work. And it's unfortunate that the game doesn't distinguish between capital ship missiles (which in reality are much larger) and fighter-scale missiles. The capital-scale missiles should not be able to target fighters (and they should do more damage). But I wouldn't worry too much about it. Fighters are free for the Empire (and they have lots of "reloads") and they are now, thanks to your mod, "free" for the Rebels as well (at least the auto-spawning Z-95s and V-wings).
EDIT - I just took a long look at GAMECONSTANTS.xml and noticed that there are 4 different missiles (regular and "light" protons, concussion, and diamond boron). With a little skillful reworking the missiles can be rebalanced. (It won't fix the targeting issue, but it'll help with realism.) I propose the following:
light proton torpedo - used only by starfighters.
concussion missile - used only by starfighters.
proton torpedo - make this a capital ship missile with heavier damage (25% more than the starfighter version).
"diamond boron" missile - make this the capital ship version of the concussion missile (150% more damage than the starfighter version).And then refit all the ships with the appropriate type of launcher per the above list.
The regular proton torpedo just has a bigger warhead than the "light" version. The so-called "diamond boron" is actually the canon (and RPG) "assault concussion missile" which is a physically much larger missile than a regular concussion missile. That's why it does so much more damage. It is physically possible to mount a regular (ie: higher damage) proton torpedo launcher in a starfighter. You cannot do the same with the assault concussion missile launcher, because the missiles themselves are almost the size of starfighters!
Love the mod, and am looking forward to your future venues! :)
Regarding those missiles, if there have been four variants, is there no way to add additional? Oh, and if you do revise the purposes of the seperate missiles, won't that screw up the savegames as well? :P
Oh, and if you do revise the purposes of the seperate missiles, won't that screw up the savegames as well? :P
Not really. Each vessel would still have the same types of weapons as it did before. Only the amount of damage they'll do changes. Adonnay's mod has already dramatically altered that for many ships anyway. IMO, what "screws up" a game is if a ship suddenly loses an ability it used to have (such as removing missiles or fighters).
Adonnay,
Terrific mod. Just the sort of thing I've been looking for. The laser effects, in particular, almost single-handedly take the battles from "cartoon" to "Industrial Light and Magic." I'm also completely on board with realism (insofar as things in the Star Wars universe can be called realistic) over balance and I think that was one of the great shortcomings of the original release. Too little fundamental difference between the Empire and the Rebellion.
I have a few ideas for tweaking Imperial space power, but it's easier to discuss them one on one. I've added you to my ICQ and look forward to hashing it out. There are a couple things, however, that I'm not sure we can do with the current mod tools:
1. Increase the unit cap of the Rebel Raid ability. If we could do this, we could easily give the Empire the kind of overwhelming superiority in space that they ought to have.
2. Dramatically increase hyperspace times and add trade routes between "sectors," i.e. groupings of planets, and major worlds for faster (but still much slower than vanilla's) travel. If we did this, we could make planets like Hoth extremely remote, i.e. put them further out on the coordinate plane and give them no trade routes, so that the Rebels have a shot at maintaining one or two stations even early in the war when they're outclassed.
3. Greatly increase the number of planets on the galactic map. I realize that this is somewhat limited before the mod tools are released, but it is possible, yes? And fairly simple to do. You just have to reuse battle maps. This would go a long way toward making the Empire difficult to defend, together with travel times, and allow the Rebels to hit and fade.
4. Dramatically increase the cost and production time of buildings and space stations, so that a Rebel strike team, say a group of infiltrators led by Han Solo, can do real damage to the Empire without confronting it directly. Get in, destroy an advanced factory, get out. Set back the Imperial war machine in that particular sector by weeks.
5. Dramatically increase the money earned by smugglers and especially Han Solo. Preferably, disallowing them for the Empire (why would the lawful authorities make a policy of smuggling anyway? It hurts their bottom line), but if that can't be done, well, the AI is ****. And humans can institute house rules about it.
6. Allow non-capital class rebel ships (perhaps no Nebulon B as well) to bypass Imperial fleets en route to another destination, with the caveat perhaps that a gravity well generator or an Interdictor Cruiser stops them. This too would allow for the kind of guerilla warfare the Rebellion engaged in, but I suspect of all of these this more than anything else would have to be done by Petroglyph.
7. Decrease the cost of Rebel buildings up to Light Factory and space stations up to level 3 (relative to the Empire's costs-all costs should be much higher than in vanilla), and their build times. Essentially, the rebels can move in, build a barracks and light factory and some mines and hold the planet long enough to make some income or hurt the Empire, and then split.
8. Decrease the timed effect of the ion cannon and/or its recharge. This thing is so damn overpowered you can easily throw back an Imperial fleet outnumbered several times to one by zapping all their Star Destroyers.
9. I know asteroid mines have been added to the galactic conquest mode, but would it be possible to make them much more expensive and use them instead as "shipyards," i.e. necessary components of capital ships. This would expand the potential of space borne hit and fades, as the Rebels could move in, destroy the shipyards and jump to hyperspace, setting back the Empire.
It seems to me that if we can do at least some of these things, to give the Rebellion a real shot at being a guerilla outfit in the early-mid game, we can give the Empire the kind of economic and naval power it has in the films and really give the Rebel side a sense of "against the odds" without making it impossible. Right now, it's more like the Spanish Civil War than the Galactic Civil War, with the Rebellion being the fascists. ;)
Just as an aside, I'm mainly interested in the galactic conquet mode and mainly, too, in multiplayer. If that doesn't jive with the direction you're headed, I completely understand and will duly shut up. :D
I'd like to make one small request, and thats to decrease the amount of things a factory or wotever can spawn in ground battles... well for the AI anyway! I just get swamped ALL the time by millions of unstoppable AT-ST's as the rebels now.
Oh yes and i mean unstoppable, AT-STs cut through hover tank things like a hot knife through butter! Not to mention anti-tank turrets and plex troops, which both do no where near enough damage to them either; AT-STs basicly are FAR overpowered.
Adjusting the spawning isn't the proper solution. Fixing the AT-STs is.
This mod is execellent, I am really enjoying this. Hands down best mod at the moment!
Only 'cus I contribute to it :lol:
Hopefully Adonnay will carry on with it later today, anyway.
juz wondering where the xml files should be placed...
thx!
in the data folder
C:\Program Files\LucasArts\Star Wars Empire at War\GameData\Data
just put it in :D
on another note, could you possibly increase the strength or rate of fire of the tartan cruisers, they seem really weak to me, my ties take out x-wings and cuh craft faster
i was playing the emp campaign on easy to play with the mod, and my cruisers got owned by the piretes fighters
this cant be right
anyway, i love this mod, definatly the best mod so far
i do find a little bug with a ship going through the top of an ISD i think it was, but besides that its very cool
Yes i would like to say that i LOVE this mod and am thrilled there are people actively working on it to make it better along with combining other users imput. I just want to thank Adonnay and mandead for all thier effort!! Thanks guys, your making an already great game better!!!
One other thing though, on a personal preference, i dont really like the massive tartans, so could you just tell me what file and what line to change to return it to the normal size? Its not a big deal at all and if you cant i will live, easily. Other than that i love the mod. Thank you once again for such a great mod!
oh, and you thought about giving this mod a proper name? it doesnt seem to have one yet :D
Downloaded, where do i install.
A readme is always nice. :)
You take the folder called XML, and you put it in the data folder. If that didn't make sense, look at the stickied tutorial near the top. Or click on this link:
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=161131)
First of all...man I had a horrible weekend. Anyway! Thanks for all your great feedback and your ideas to improve this mod. I really appreciate your criticism and now I'll try to answer a few of your questions ;)
1. Increase the unit cap of the Rebel Raid ability. If we could do this, we could easily give the Empire the kind of overwhelming superiority in space that they ought to have.
Should be no problem...
2. Dramatically increase hyperspace times and add trade routes between "sectors," i.e. groupings of planets, and major worlds for faster (but still much slower than vanilla's) travel. If we did this, we could make planets like Hoth extremely remote, i.e. put them further out on the coordinate plane and give them no trade routes, so that the Rebels have a shot at maintaining one or two stations even early in the war when they're outclassed.
3. Greatly increase the number of planets on the galactic map. I realize that this is somewhat limited before the mod tools are released, but it is possible, yes? And fairly simple to do. You just have to reuse battle maps. This would go a long way toward making the Empire difficult to defend, together with travel times, and allow the Rebels to hit and fade.
Well I haven't played around with the map at all yet... so these two points are things I have to figure out first before I can say if it's doable and how long it will take ;)
4. Dramatically increase the cost and production time of buildings and space stations, so that a Rebel strike team, say a group of infiltrators led by Han Solo, can do real damage to the Empire without confronting it directly. Get in, destroy an advanced factory, get out. Set back the Imperial war machine in that particular sector by weeks.
Bad thing is I'm pretty sure the AI cheats about build times anyway. It almost builds space stations and such instantly. I'm not sure about money though... So changing these parameters would only affect the Multiplayer game.
5. Dramatically increase the money earned by smugglers and especially Han Solo. Preferably, disallowing them for the Empire (why would the lawful authorities make a policy of smuggling anyway? It hurts their bottom line), but if that can't be done, well, the AI is ****. And humans can institute house rules about it.
I agree on this and will look into it - Vader hiring bounty hunters was already very unconventional for the empire ;)
6. Allow non-capital class rebel ships (perhaps no Nebulon B as well) to bypass Imperial fleets en route to another destination, with the caveat perhaps that a gravity well generator or an Interdictor Cruiser stops them. This too would allow for the kind of guerilla warfare the Rebellion engaged in, but I suspect of all of these this more than anything else would have to be done by Petroglyph.
I think if you make those ships stealth capable they should be able to bypass orbital fleets and space stations. Not sure about GW generators though. I think they don't get checked in Galactic mode... only when you engage in a space battle.
7. Decrease the cost of Rebel buildings up to Light Factory and space stations up to level 3 (relative to the Empire's costs-all costs should be much higher than in vanilla), and their build times. Essentially, the rebels can move in, build a barracks and light factory and some mines and hold the planet long enough to make some income or hurt the Empire, and then split.
8. Decrease the timed effect of the ion cannon and/or its recharge. This thing is so damn overpowered you can easily throw back an Imperial fleet outnumbered several times to one by zapping all their Star Destroyers.
Those two things can be done quickly...
9. I know asteroid mines have been added to the galactic conquest mode, but would it be possible to make them much more expensive and use them instead as "shipyards," i.e. necessary components of capital ships. This would expand the potential of space borne hit and fades, as the Rebels could move in, destroy the shipyards and jump to hyperspace, setting back the Empire.
Space Stations are needed to build ships anyway... if you destroy it you set back the empire in its space ship building capacity. But you probably meant bypass the station and only destroy the dock quickly (which is obviously easier than destroying the station). That might prove more complicated... not sure how to "spawn" a mine when you chose to build one in galactic mode. I think you'll have to edit the spacemap for the planet you build on. I'll look into it for it surely is a nice idea...
I'd like to make one small request, and thats to decrease the amount of things a factory or wotever can spawn in ground battles... well for the AI anyway! I just get swamped ALL the time by millions of unstoppable AT-ST's as the rebels now.
Oh yes and i mean unstoppable, AT-STs cut through hover tank things like a hot knife through butter! Not to mention anti-tank turrets and plex troops, which both do no where near enough damage to them either; AT-STs basicly are FAR overpowered.
Well I expect the AT-STs to be more powerful than the hover-tanks which are best suited for a hit and run tactic. But you're right about the spawns... I'll probably reduce the numbers of AT-STs per squad to three too.
* light proton torpedo - used only by starfighters.
* concussion missile - used only by starfighters.
* proton torpedo - make this a capital ship missile with heavier damage (25% more than the starfighter version).
* "diamond boron" missile - make this the capital ship version of the concussion missile (150% more damage than the starfighter version).
The "light" proton torpedo is actually the station and ship (Acclamator) launched torpedo. It does the same damage as the "normal" bomber torpedo, just not the 5x modifier against capital ships which is reserved for the bombers to make them more useful/important. The proton torpedo I added for the X-Wing is actually more of a light torpedo which doesn't penetrate shields to make the X-Wings no bomber replacement.
The Acclamator would need some rebalancing if I upgrade its proton torpedoes and at the same time replace its relatively small missiles with those massive damage missiles.
@endo224: It's in the spaceunitscorvettes.xml. Search for the Tartan and it's Death_Clone and change the "Scale_Factor" for both.
Welcome back! Missed ya.
Well I expect the AT-STs to be more powerful than the hover-tanks which are best suited for a hit and run tactic. But you're right about the spawns... I'll probably reduce the numbers of AT-STs per squad to three too.
Please don't change the squad size. The Empire normally deploys them in fours. The AT-STs having the max firepower ability rather than barrage is what's making them so powerful. If you want to really fix the AT-STs, revert them back to their original special ability. After that, then fine-tune them if necessary.
The Acclamator would need some rebalancing if I upgrade its proton torpedoes and at the same time replace its relatively small missiles with those massive damage missiles.
That's fine. The idea is that capital ships (cruisers and destroyers) carry big missiles and anything else carries small ones. If you want starfighters to have more "punch", perhaps you can add a new (cloned) missile/torp type just for them that's able to bypass shields? (Not because the missiles can, but because the starfighter itself is getting "under" the shield.) ALL other missiles/torps should not bypass shields. That's, IMO, a HUGE problem with the game as it currently stands. EAW proton torps ignore shields and that's just not right (or canon).
About the AT-STs. Okay, so no squad size change... but I don't think I will revert back to the barrage ability... it was so odd that firing aimlessly at a certain area suddenly makes more damage in a shorter time than precice aimed shots. I will just tone it down and make modifiy the reuse timer. I will also reduce the spawn of the facilities.
I didn't worry about the fighters not beeing powerful enough (the bomber torpedoes still penetrate the shields, but not the X-Wing ones), but I worry about the Acclamator becoming too powerful. It's the only ship with torpedoes and rockets... well I'll have to play around with the missiles still.
Well, while you're looking at the various missiles please please remove the ability for the non-fighter missiles (Acclamator, Venator, starbase, pirate frigates) to bypass shields. It's very non-canon. BTW, the Venator should carry the exact same number of concussion missile tubes as the Acclamator (if it doesn't already).
Welcome back Adonnay :)
Been messing about with the MasterTextFile, adding strings for added stuff (I have seperate descriptions for the two Mon Cal classes, as well as the TIE Avenger and Moff Tarkin's Accuser, etc., etc.) - will send you a copy later.
BTW, for the sake of balance bear in mind that a Broadside cruiser has TEN times as many missile tubes as either the Acclamator or the Venator. I don't know if that degree of firepower is properly represented in the game. OTOH, an ISD has 5 times as many turbolasers as a Nebulon-B (or about double that of the Victory ISD), and I don't think that's properly modelled in the game either. ;) The big ships in EAW (for both sides) seem to be underpowered in terms of how many weapons they mount.
BTW, for the sake of balance bear in mind that a Broadside cruiser has TEN times as many missile tubes as either the Acclamator or the Venator. I don't know if that degree of firepower is properly represented in the game. OTOH, an ISD has 5 times as many turbolasers as a Nebulon-B (or about double that of the Victory ISD), and I don't think that's properly modelled in the game either. ;) The big ships in EAW (for both sides) seem to be underpowered in terms of how many weapons they mount.
Of course, you must realize that it's impossible to add 5 times more weapons, then balancing becomes an issue, and they becoming nearly invincible. ):
The proper counter to an ISD is a Mon Cal cruiser. I read a story (not a game AAR) about 2 Victory SDs defeating an entire pirate armada of 140 corvettes and converted freighters. A single ISD is supposed to be able to easily handle a typical Rebel fleet composed of a few frigates and a bunch of corvettes.
Vastly increasing the firepower of SDs (and equivalent vessels) can be balanced by making them very expensive (as they are in canon), much slower to build, and use a lot more cap points.
I agree with the points raised here. Afterall, we are going for both canon and realism :)
Here are a few comparative credit values of some of the ships in the roleplaying game:
ISD*: 145,670,000 (*price for the ISD II, I don't have a price for the ISD I)
Mon Cal**: 131,800,000 (**price for MC90, I don't have a price for the MC80)
VSD II: 50,000,000 (the version in EAW)
Interdictor: 52,240,000
Acclamator: 29,000,000
Nebulon-B: 9,000,000
Corellian Gunship: 4,800,000
Corellian Corvette: 3,500,000
Marauder: 2,398,000 (original version, EAW's missile version would be much more expensive)
Note that you can "buy" over 5.5 Nebulons for the cost of a VSD, and about 3 VSDs for the cost of just one ISD. Puts things into some perspective, I hope.
Interesting thoughts. Regarding the planets, adding them should be no problem. The amount of buildspaces on the ground and in space can be easily set, along with the planet's location, it's texture, and the map it references to. You can even set it to be non-accesible (like Bespin).
Trade routes should be possible if you select one core planet for all the trade routs to go to, and then have them spread from there. In essence, have a trade route go from, say Manaan to Coruscant, and Coruscant having trade routs with the surrounding planets, and Manaan with the surrounding planets. The amount of income received from the traderouts (which is essentially a modifier) can also be defined.
About the AT-STs. Okay, so no squad size change... but I don't think I will revert back to the barrage ability... it was so odd that firing aimlessly at a certain area suddenly makes more damage in a shorter time than precice aimed shots. I will just tone it down and make modifiy the reuse timer. I will also reduce the spawn of the facilities.
Perhaps remove the barrage ability alltogether and give them the ability to fire a rocket? After all, they are supposed to have a blaster on the left side, and a rocket launcher on the right for close unit combat, and the lower blasters on the side for long range (2km) anti-vehicle combat.
I don't think they are as much over-powered as the damage of the RPG units is under-powered. I set their health to one-tenth, which makes them butter for the ATST's, but with a modified RPG, meaning one-hit one-kill, the game becomes more balanced and more realistic. Aside from that, if we are able to make them stealthy, they could wait for a couple of ATST's to pass by, and destroy them utterly.
It will give users a potential to use different tactics than just swarming them, in which case, the ATST's SHOULD have an advantage.
but because the starfighter itself is getting "under" the shield.
If I remember correctly, they can't. Shields 'repel' fighters, like an invisible wall, meaning they blow up. Much the same for missiles, the way I understand it.
There are actually two different types of shields in Star Wars. The energy shields that deflect lasers are permeable to projectiles. The other type, so-called "particle shields", are for repelling meteoroids and other kinetic impactors. Energy shields create a form-fitting "bubble" a very short distance away from the ship, while particle shields are more like a 'skin" that closely hugs the ship's surface. It's possible for a skilled pilot to "get under" an energy shield while flying very close to a capital ship.
You may recall that Red Squadron in Ep4 passed through the DS1's energy shield (which was projected a fair distance from the DS itself) on their way to the attack. Note that the land-based anti-energy shields in EAW are also permeable to moving objects. They are the same type of shields that are found on starships. If an airspeeder on the ground can fly through them, then a starfighter flying close to a capital ship can do it too (with skill and luck). ;)
Hmm.. I guess so. So with all those wise engineers they have building starships, not a single one was able to project the energyshield just above the hull? I don't know how Vader keeps up with them :P
Anyshoe, I think we would have to set the range of the missiles to be close to the capital ship, so you'll have tie fighters protecting the capital ships in case some fighters come to ruin your day.
What do you think about my idea on the AT-ST's?
Oh well... there's sure alot to do. I have to make a proirity list first or I'll never get done with it, so don't expect the next update too soon ;)
edit: In addition to that I could use a few testers... it takes alot of time to implement something AND test it thoroughly (balance issues mostly like prices, damage tables and such).
Oh well... there's sure alot to do. I have to make a proirity list first or I'll never get done with it, so don't expect the next update too soon ;)
Please fix missiles first. Should be the easiest of the changes to do. Next I'd think would be the AT-STs. Then everything else. ;)
Okay folks... I put a testversion up.
Major changes:
- some ship costs drastically changed (i.e. ISD 24000) - according to data provided by Tal
- capital ship and station shields are now much more efficient
- increased firepower of the ISD and the VSD - Tal again
- replaced all station and starship fired missiles with the new assault missiles. High payload but slow and with a low maneuverability
- added two new satellite options: assault missile and turbolaser defense satellite against slow moving targets, vulnerable to fighters.
- changed the population cap for space battles to 100
- changed the population value for almost all vessels to fit the new pop cap (i.e. TIE fighers beeing the lowest with 1, ISDs the highest (non-hero) with 25)
- doubled the damage done by PLEX Soldiers against AT-STs - tell me how they do now HomoUniversalis
- added a PLEX soldier to every rebel soldier squad (untested)
- lowered all garrison respawns (no vehicle spawn is unlimited anymore, troops still are) - as per request of Hammer22
- Smugglers taken off the imperial payrolls (they can't build cantinas anymore). Bounty Hunters are of course still in. - based on HolisticGod's idea
- raised the cap on raid groups from 3 to 8 (yet to be tested, might be too much, especially for smaller planets) - also HolisitcGod's point
Thanks for all your contributions, be it ideas, data or just loudly spoken thoughts ;) Many of these changes are based on these.
-> Version .006c (
http://www.adonnai.de/eaw/Adonnay_eaw_006c.zip) <-
Almost forgot: There's a master textfile included (for the new satellites to be able to tell them apart since they use the same icon). So BACKUP YOUR OLD ONE before you extract!
Okay folks... I put a testversion up.
Thanks!
replaced all station and starship fired missiles with the new assault missiles. High payload but slow and with a low maneuverability
Do these new missiles no longer bypass shields? (I hope.) Haven't tested them yet, but I will as soon as I finish this post.
There's a master textfile included (for the new satellites to be able to tell them apart since they use the same icon).
I've edited your textfile and corrected a few strings (Victory Star Destroyer, Venator-class Star Destroyer, etc. I'd like to send it to you. Can you PM or email me your email address?
I have more data for you:
Tartan tooltip says "armed with 4 laser cannons". Corellian Corvette tooltip says "armed with 8 laser cannons". The Tartan actually has 20 lasers, but their overall firepower is equal to the Corellian Corvette's actual number of 6 double turbolasers and 4 (anti-fighter) laser cannons. You may need to adjust the Tartan's and Corellian Corvette's specs and/or tooltips.
The Corellian Gunship tooltip says "armed with 2 laser cannons and 4 concussion missile launchers". The actual vessel has 8 double turbolasers instead of just 2. It also has 6 quad lasers for point defense. Each quadlaser is equal in firepower to one of the Corellian Corvette's double turbolasers, while each of the Gunship's double turbolasers have double the firepower of one of the Corvette's double turbolasers.
I think the tooltips and the stats for each of the following may also need to be changed:
Interdictor has 20 light turbo quadlasers (each equivalent to one of the double turbolasers on the Corellian Gunship).
Nebulon-B has 12 turbolasers (each equivalent to one of the double turbolasers on the Corellian Gunship), 12 (anti-fighter) laser cannons (each one-fifth the power of the turbolasers), and 2 tractor beams.
Acclamator has 12 turbo quadlasers (each has 50% more firepower than those on the Interdictor), and 24 point laser cannons (similar to those on the Nebulon-B), plus 4 assault concussion missile tubes.
Mon Cal MC80 has 48 turbolasers (equivalent to those on the Interdictor), 20 ion cannon, and 6 tractor beams.
ISD has 60 turbolasers (each 25% more powerful than those on the Interdictor), 40 point laser cannons (similar to those on the Nebulon), 60 ion cannon, and 10 tractor beams.
Victory II has 20 turbolasers (each has 75% more firepower than those on the Interdictor), 20 heavy turbolasers (each equal to those on the Interdictor), 10 ion cannon, and 10 tractor beams.
If you want to model the Victory I design, it has 10 light turbo quadlasers each equal to the turbolasers on an Interdictor), 20 heavy double turbolasers (each has the same firepower as one of the light turbo quadlasers), 20 assault concussion missile tubes, and 10 tractor beams.
The Broadside missile cruiser has 40 assault concussion missile tubes and 2 turbolasers (don't know how powerful they are).
The Alliance Assault Frigate (Mark II) has 15 laser cannons (each has half the firepower of those on the Interdictor), 20 quad laser cannons (equivalent to those on the Interdictor), and 15 turbolasers (equal to those on the VSD II, ie: 75% more powerful than those on the Interdictor).
The Venator has 8 heavy turbolasers (each has double the firepower of those on the Interdictor), 2 medium dual turbolasers (each has 50% more firepower than those on the Interdictor), 52 (anti-fighter) laser cannons (similar to those on the Nebulon), 4 proton torpedo launchers, and 6 tractor beams.
Please note how I relate the strengths of the various guns to those on the Interdictor (and Nebulon), which in turn are compared to the Corellian Gunship, which in turn are compared to the Corellian Corvette. That should allow you to properly scale all ships to each other.
For the textfile... I think mandead already has one which has been edited quite alot, I just haven't been able to get in contact with him. You might want to talk to him about adjusting some specs/names, or you both send me your files and I merge them (somehow) :)
As for the missiles, yes... no missile penetrates the shields anymore but the Bomber's torpedoes.
Thanks for the numbers again, you're a real well of information ;)
I'll try to change the ships accordingly.
Perhaps you can do me a favor... how many different turbolasers are there, so I can model every type of Turbolaser (and large/medium lasers too), put em on the ships and adjust their firepower according to the number of hardpoints by setting their rate of fire. Best would be the dice charts. Those should be convertable quite easily.
Thanks for the numbers again, you're a real well of information ;)
Thanks. I've been gamesmastering SWRPG for almost two decades, and in that time I've amassed a considerable collection of books. I'm also good at finding anything on the Web that I don't have in one of my books. ;)
Perhaps you can do me a favor... how many different turbolasers are there, so I can model every type of Turbolaser (and large/medium lasers too), put em on the ships and adjust their firepower according to the number of hardpoints by setting their rate of fire. Best would be the dice charts. Those should be convertable quite easily.
A-wing: double-linked laser cannon (5d10x2).
X-wing: quad-linked laser cannon (6d10x2), 2 proton torpedo launchers (9d10x2).
Y-wing: double-linked laser cannon (5d10x2), 2 proton torpedo launchers (9d10x2), 2 linked light ion cannon (4d10x2).
Z-95: triple blaster (3d10x2), concussion missile launcher (7d10x2)
TIE: double-linked laser cannon (5d10x2)
TIE bomber: double-linked point laser cannon (3d10x2), concussion missile launcher (9d10x2)
TIE scout: laser cannon (4d10x2)
Millenium Falcon: 2 quad laser cannon (6d10x2), dual-linked concussion missile launchers (9d10x2).
Slave I: double-linked blaster cannon (5d10x2), concussion missile launcher (8d10x2), ion cannon (5d10x2), tractor beam, seismic mine layer.
Tartan: 20 laser cannons (4d10x2).
Corellian Corvette:6 double turbolasers (5d10x2) [3 front, 1 left, 1 right, 1 rear], 4 laser cannons (4d10x2) [2 left, 2 right].
Corellian Gunship: 8 double turbolasers (4d10x5) [2 front, 3 left, 3 right], 6 quad lasers (5d10x2) [3 left, 3 right].
Marauder Corvette: 8 heavy double turbolasers (4d10x5) [2 each arc], 3 tractor beam [2 front, 1 rear]. (note this is the canon version, not the game's version)
Interdictor: 20 light turbo quadlasers (4d10x5) [10 front, 5 left, 5 right].
Nebulon-B: 12 turbolasers (4d10x5) [6 front, 3 left, 3 right], 12 laser cannons (2d10x2) [6 front, 2 left, 2 right, 2 rear], and 2 tractor beams .
[B]Acclamator: 12 turbo quadlasers (6d10x5) [6 front/left, 6 front/right], and 24 point laser cannons (2d10x2) [8 front, 8 left, 8 right], plus 4 assault concussion missile tubes (9d10x5) [all front].
Mon Cal MC80: 48 turbolasers (4d10x5) [12 each arc], 20 ion cannon (5d10x2) [8 front, 4 left, 4 right, 4 rear], and 6 tractor beams [4 front, 1 left, 1 right].
ISD I: 60 turbolasers (5d10x5) [20 front, 20 left, 20 right], 40 point laser cannons (2d10x2) [10 front, 15 left, 15 right], 60 ion cannon (5d10x2) [24 front, 18 left, 18 right], and 10 tractor beams [6 front, 2 left, 2 right].
Victory II: 20 turbolasers (7d10x5) [10 front, 5 left, 5 right], 20 heavy turbolasers (4d10x5) [10 front, 5 left, 5 right], 10 heavy ion cannon (7d10x2) [2 front, 3 left, 3 right, 2 rear], and 10 tractor beams [6 front, 2 left, 2 right].
Victory I: 10 light turbo quadlasers (4d10x5) [5 left, 5 right], 20 heavy double turbolasers (4d10x5) [10 front, 5 left, 5 right], 20 assault concussion missile tubes (11d10x5) [5 each arc], and 10 tractor beams [6 front, 2 left, 2 right].
Broadside missile cruiser: 40 assault concussion missile tubes (9d10x5), 2 turbolasers (7d10x5).
Alliance Assault Frigate (Mark II): 15 laser cannons (2d10x5) [5 front, 5 left, 5 right], 20 quad laser cannons (4d10x5) [8 front, 6 left, 6 right], and 15 turbolasers (7d10x5) [5 front, 5 left, 5 right].
Venator: 8 heavy double turbolasers (8d10x5) [4 front/left, 4 front/right], 2 medium dual turbolasers (6d10x5) [1 front/left, 1 front/right], 26 dual laser cannons (3d10x2) [12 front, 6 left, 6 right, 2 rear], 4 proton torpedo launchers (9d10x2) [all front], and 6 tractor beams [4 front, 1 left, 1 right].
Key: 4d10x5 means 4d10 and multiply the result by 5. The extra gun tubes of double and quad mounts are already factored into the damage numbers given, so if a ship has 8 heavy double turbolasers, it will inflict 8 sets of 4d10x5 (not 16 sets). All x5 weapons are capital-grade, while x2 non-ion weapons are anti-fighter point defense guns (except the turbolasers on the Corellian Corvette -- all turbolasers are long-range weapons unsuitable for anti-fighter use). The Venator's turbolasers are mounted in so-called "partial turrets" that can fire into two arcs. Sorry, but I don't have fire arcs for the Tartan and Broadside. You'll have to make an educated guess.
Note that there are more different types of blaster cannon, lasers, and turbolasers than those that are used by the ships listed above. But I'd rather not get anyone upset with me for copyright infringement by publishing a full table of them. Besides, if the ships in EAW don't use them, then you don't need to know. Unless you wish to model some other ship. If you do, just ask me for the specs on that particular ship (or ships).
So the Corvettes "Turbolasers" do less damage than the fighter-cannons?
So the Corvettes "Turbolasers" do less damage than the fighter-cannons?
The Corvette mounts the weakest of the 9 different types of turbolasers.
Please note that I edited my post to add fire arcs for all ships larger than 100m in length. Don't worry about arcs for the small ships.
Oh my... I just tried to implement the weapon charts for the corvette, the gunboat and the nebulon B... if I do that 1:1 the corvette will do ridiculously low damage with a ridiculously low rate of fire or the larger ships will go through the roof with their damage and their rate of fire...
The margin between the damage values and the number of weapons is so vast compared to the number of hardpoints a model has. I mean I have to put 60 turbolasers onto 4 hardpoints on the ISD but at the same time 6 cannons on 6 hardpoints for the corvette. On the corvette it's fine... if I define that every cannon can shoot once per second its easy. But to have 60 cannons on 4 hardpoints and let each one shoot once per second... you can do the math. The monster would have to spit out lasers at a rate of 15 shots per second...
Ah well... I'll stop complaining... I hate math ;)
I'll guess I have to start with one shot every 2 seconds and I might come out fine with 7.5 shots per second for the ISD. Do you have ICQ or MSN?
edit: concering the fireing arcs... I don't know how the firing bones are placed on the models so I can't really tell where they point to adjust their firing arc. That would take a looong test phase (i.e. activate only one cannon and see where it can target enemies etc.)
Hey, I did the easy work of getting the specs. You're doing the hard stuff. :p I'm still busy modding UFO:Aftershock and Civ4, so I'm letting you do all the heavy thinking for EAW. hehe ;)
I don't use ICQ or MSN. But you're welcome to PM or email me as much and as often as you'd like.
As for arcs, I provided them in case you needed them. I don't expect that EAW will allow you to be as "realistic" as the pen & paper RPG is. RPGs are intended for much more serious gamers. ;)
Umm... didn't you tell me the Venator has assault missile tubes? In your chart above he doesn't...
Hello, chaps :)
I'm still here, don't worry. I'm tweaking the MasterTextFile, but stuff's being changed all the time so the main units I am leaving 'till you've finished them (well, more or less) until I update the tooltip information.
Just saves me a lot of work in the long run ;)
It's being worked on, though. And can you double (or more?) the power of the Hypervelocity gun for the next release? I suppose increasing the price would be good, too.
Cheers!