Hello, I think this is my first post although I signed up a while ago. I have looked at this Kotor forum alot but never actually had anything to post until now so don't flame me for being a nublet. I have read some fantastic posts in all threads in the Kotor forum and I thank you all for providing me with hours of insight and interesting reading during my boring ICT lessons.

While on the toilet yesterday, I was thinking of Kreia (as you do) and thought what if she goes deeper than this beyond Dark Side, Nihilistic hater of all life and the force. Maybe she is a True Sith. Ignoring all other conceptions including that she might be Kae (HAHAHAHA...ahem) and other possible stories. What if she is/was one of the original Sithari (sp?) yes having been a Jedi and Going back to the Dark Side like a Yo-Yo. I know what you’re thinking but hold on this will make sense in a minute.

Here's my concept:

The True Sith were the badass Darksiders who spawned the cult of The Sith we all know and love today. They lived X amount of years before Kotor doing they're bad things then leaving the galaxy for pastures new. In all those thousands possibly hundreds of thousands, or dare I say millions of years, the True Sith changed. They still exist but they are these ultimate Light side wiser than Yoda higher plain of understanding people. Now these people see the Jedi and the Sith as a petty fight which they observe but do not interfere. Besides, they really don't keep a close tabs on galactic events.

This Light side Sith concept would be a fantastic twist on Kotor 3 as it is almost a dead cert the True Sith will be a big subject in Kotor 3. People are expecting the True Sith to be the ultimate battle royale in Star Wars history. Instead, we explore the history of the True Sith and find out how they have influenced life in the known universe and that there is a higher existence all Light and Dark should try to reach. The state of pure energy and peace. Despite the last two paragraphs, try and veer away from a Sith in a VW Camper van with a make-love-not-war sticker on it, image.

The main battle here is between the Sith and the True Sith, now this is the epic part. We look a little deeper and find out who Nihilus was (Possibly a car salesman or whatever but who knows, I'm not going into detail on that) and introduce two bog standard Sith Lords into this game. But now here’s the money shot, we see the Sith beginning to crack under the pressure, they question they’re faith. There will be the slight manly tear from a Sith Lords eye and this is something that will twist your heart, imagine someone like Sion saying: - “I do not understand. This is trickery, Jedi trickery” it’s tearing at the fabric of the Sith. Now the purpose behind this is that the good guys always win, known fact in all movies and games in the end. With the Jedi practically beaten and questioning themselves in the first two Kotor games, it would be very interesting to see the morals of the Sith (oh yes they have them) picked apart and a Sith Lord destroyed not by Lightsaber but by words alone. (Possibly the final battle)

In the end, something happens (Dunno what) maybe with the defeat of the Current Sith Lord who is possibly not killed but left in a crazed heap begging for redemption (camera slowly zooming out with epic music) while his apprentice (watching the whole thing) sees this all as just Jedi trickery and returns to his roots of evil and takes over his Masters place as Dark Lord restoring the Dark/Light constant in the galaxy as there always is and always will be. The True Sith fade back into the fabric of the universe with a slightly changed perspective on events of the galaxy but are still as cryptic as Kreia’s Sudoku puzzle book.

Didn’t you mention Kreia at the beginning?

Yes. Yes I did. Kreia was the grand manipulator of events in Kotor 2 and by what she says, she pulled a few strings behind the scenes in Kotor 1 as well. I thought to myself, why not capitalize this and see Kreia as a True Sith who was too curious. Curious enough to get involved with galactic events and become all the things she was (Lightside, Darkside and a Darth too!) She blended in subtely with the galaxy but because of her nature as an uber Lightsided True Sith, it showed her up which is why Kreia is hard to identify as a Sith or Jedi as she could not blend in with both. (Remember, to the True Sith who are uber Lightside, the Jedi are like kids saying they want to be Superman when they are older[Likewise with the Sith]). Also, because Kreia was at heart into the tapestry of the universe being a True Sith and all, she was able to predict the future events for Exile as her last gift of advice (if you could call it that).

Amazing what you clock while on the Khazi. Eh?

Er... So I get to go find the Sith and reach Force Nervana? :) Sorry, but I don't really see this happening. I myself would like it if we never see "True Sith" in the game, and that they are neither ultimate bad guys nor humanoid Yoda guys. But even if we do, I don't think they will be like this. But as far as this concept - I'm not quite sure what you are suggesting, I'm a little confused as to what you will do.

While on the toilet yesterday
Too much info.

I don't really like your idea, mainly because there is a lack of one thing: fighting/quests/party interaction. To me it sounds like the True Sith just sit you down in a classroom and teach you all the mysteries of the Force and tell you what happened to Revan and the Exile.

However, since you used paragraphs, proper spelling, and proper grammar, you get 10 cool points. Welcome to the SWK Forums. :D

Oh you are sooo generous Hallucination :)

Any whos my 2 cents are that the True are to be in KOTOR 3, how and why I don't care, well the why is that they were mentioned in KOTOR and TSL. Second, I really don't want to see Kreia again, she's got psych problems and she just needs a chill pill.

Yes sorry i was half way to sleep last night writing this. Just to clarify, im not saying that Kreia should be in the next game, my head exploded trying to figure out what Kreia is in the past few weeks, nay months. She should just appear as a memory like bastila was in Kotor 2. As for the combat side of this. Bare in mind that this is an outline of the story and not the combat content. The main combat of the game is up to you to decide on the basis of the story outline. Maybe the typical pirates and denizens vying for power and trying to fill the empty void of the Sith, therefore trying to attack known Jedi. As this game would look at the faith of the Jedi and the Sith, i feel that alot of character interaction should be wavering views on who the True Sith really are and if your party members respect your beliefs.

Also we may not even see the True Sith ingame but we do interact with them, if you get my meaning. It's all very cryptic Kreia-istic stuff. I'd just like to hear a few interpretations from other people about this. I get the feeling though that Kotor 3 needs to explain abit more about the last two games but leave some questions unanswered. You have to admit though Hallucination, the sight of Sion leaning over to Vandar Tokare's desk getting the answers of the the great 'True Sith Test 2006' while saying, "Don't mind me" would be an awesome sight...

Appear as a memory? I would say no except I will allow maybe a datapad or two but to be honest, she just bugged me. Her cryptic manner was well done, a model I've used for several stories but all I saw her useful for was the Force Chain thing in a tight spot. Other than that, the rewards for talking to her were neat too.

This is exactly what i DONT want. (well i dont want the True sith anyway)
I dont want to discover a super stong superior -can-do-it-all race/group.

Why oh why did Kreia tell you that True-Sith legacy...that made sure they will be in the game :(

But maybe at the start of Kotor III Kreia appears as a force ghost and tells you:
"Oh iam a Liar, there are no true sith! May the force be with you! Always!" and then she is gone and a thrilling exciting story starts.

But maybe at the start of Kotor III Kreia appears as a force ghost and tells you:
"Oh iam a Liar, there are no true sith! May the force be with you! Always!" and then she is gone and a thrilling exciting story starts.

Don't hold your breath. Instead of wishing not to have the true sith in the game you might as well :headbump atleast you can control that.

I always though the True Sith were a race/faction of hidden super, ьber-sith, that send some some apprentices to destroy the normal world once in a while.
I think Nihilus, Sion and Kreia are simple 'True Sith' trainees, and people like Exar Kun (he was infused by Sith spirits if i recall) and Emperor Palpatine are the real True Sith-masters.
I also think Nihilus was a weak True Sith, and Kreia a big manipulator. While Nihilus was easily beaten, Kreia manifested herself quit...different.
Good theory by the way :)

While on the toilet yesterday, I was thinking of Kreia (as you do)

I realy, realy don't...*shudders*

Actually the True Sith, IMO, are those that first split from the Jedi. The ancients like Ajunta Paul and Naga Sadow. There were references that they hid and grew from their Jedi Masters so maybe it's the essence of these ancients that fuels the darkness that KOTOR will have.

But it is never clarified that Kreia specifically says that they will be in K3. Sure, in TSL she says "True Sith." Once. Never anywhere else, and they are never mentioned in KOTOR. And as I mentioned in another thread, that doesn't necessarily have to mean the species.

But it is never clarified that Kreia specifically says that they will be in K3. Sure, in TSL she says "True Sith." Once.
Sure you keep saying it and it will be true! :roleyess:

Yes it is very clearly specified that Revan went of in search of this threat (True Sith), like it or not Rob the story point is made. How many times it was said matters not.

Never anywhere else, and they are never mentioned in KOTOR.
Uh, yes they were mentioned in KotOR I, in the little tidbits during area transitions.

And as I mentioned in another thread, that doesn't necessarily have to mean the species.
Yes it does, remember the KotOR era comes from the Tales of the Jedi comic series, and I know the True Sith was mentioned in that once or twice, the D6 RPG sourcebook for that series mentions them also.

They would make a great protagonist for KotOR III... not all True Sith were DS either. This means there is a possibility we could recruit one as an NPC, very cool prospect IMHO.

The way I see it the devs will need to address the true Sith idea at some point in the KotOR series.

Canderous talked about how the Sith encouraged the Mandalorians to attack the Republic and that was before Revan and Malak went DS. So who were those Sith? And then of course the subject figures even more prominently in TSL. So obviously the true Sith would be featured in the next KotOR but whether the devs are ready to have the true Sith take the leading role or not is the real question IMO.

Well said Hai Wan. I beginning to think more clearly that the True Sith may not be a species perse but a dark essence that consumes those who fall. Maybe those consumed will be in KOTOR 3.

And as I mentioned in another thread, that doesn't necessarily have to mean the species.

Yes it does, remember the KotOR era comes from the Tales of the Jedi comic series, and I know the True Sith was mentioned in that once or twice, the D6 RPG sourcebook for that series mentions them also.

They would make a great protagonist for KotOR III... not all True Sith were DS either. This means there is a possibility we could recruit one as an NPC, very cool prospect IMHO.

Are there any of the Sith species left at this point in the timeline? Didn't the Jedi splitting from the Order happen over 1,000yrs prior? I would think the species is pretty diluted by now. I'm not saying there isn't the possibilty of there still being some pure-breds left, just that the definition of "True Sith" at this point in time = Jedi+Sith race mix.

Are there any of the Sith species left at this point in the timeline? Didn't the Jedi splitting from the Order happen over 1,000yrs prior? I would think the species is pretty diluted by now. I'm not saying there isn't the possibilty of there still being some pure-breds left, just that the definition of "True Sith" at this point in time = Jedi+Sith race mix.
Well see the information tidbits we have are from the version told for the galaxy at large, so since some of the so called the True Sith mingled with the first/early Dark Jedi that descovered them the True Sith as a species has long been gone. Like Obi-Wan says... while this is true, it is only true from a certain point of view.

Much of the so called information on the extinction of the True Sith also comes from Dark Sith sources, and they never tell whole truths.

The games storyline clearly allows for it to be the remnants of the actual True Sith Race because parts of the race could have easily hid in the outer rim's unexplored reigons, places the Republic have not yet discovered...

The True Sith would also have quite a bit of dislike for the Jedi Order because their whole society was disrupted/destroyed by the arrival of fallen Dark Jedi. Who also proceeded to take the True Sith's teachings and mingled it with their own Dark Jedi ways to form the core of the Dark Sith tenants we know today. As it isn't really known how the Dark Jedi disrupted/destroyed the True Sith's society, we cannot say for certain the race is extinct either, survivors are quite easily plausible.

Imagine, people calling themselves Dark Jedi arriving then proceeding to destroy your society and way of life. This could easily make you more than a little irritated, especially at the Jedi Order who allowed them to exist. ;)

The hidden remnants of the True Sith peoples could very well blame the Jedi Order and the Republic for the actions the Dark Jedi took upon the True Sith, biding their time and manipulating events (Like goading the Mandalorians to war with the Republic). The actions the Dark Jedi took upon their peoples would be one heck of a motivation for them to try to destroy the Republic and the Jedi Order who created the Dark Jedi in the first place. Either way it would take time to build up their own strength to deal the final blows.

Just my 2 cents. :D

1. True Sith in the game yes.
2. They must be the ultimate evil and the ultimate saber wielders.
3. You need to be like lvl 40 to beat them!

There ya go, that's my thoughts :)

2. They must be the ultimate evil and the ultimate saber wielders.
The original Sith didn't use lightsabers. They used Sith swords. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sith_Sword)

The way I see it the devs will need to address the true Sith idea at some point in the KotOR series.

Canderous talked about how the Sith encouraged the Mandalorians to attack the Republic and that was before Revan and Malak went DS. So who were those Sith? And then of course the subject figures even more prominently in TSL. So obviously the true Sith would be featured in the next KotOR but whether the devs are ready to have the true Sith take the leading role or not is the real question IMO.
I always thought that was the ailing Sith Order which was around before Revan and Malak. They turn up and take control of something already in existence but with no real political power left, Revan and Malak bolster that. Or at least, that's what KotOR seemed to imply. Maybe the "True Sith" are the Bladeborn, or something.

Interesting idea, Herbie!

I've been toying with the idea for some time that the True Sith is nothing more than the presence of dark power and the power of places like Malachor. Kreia said something that the true war was to be waged from withn that you are the battle ground. I know she was obviously referring to choices but it is not above her to have double meanings in her words or hidden meanings. She said that Revan knew the power of such places and the power in making them so would this make the idea that the True Sith is really nothing more than the dark power of the ancients such as that stored in the blade of Ajunta Pall?

While doing some research on Wiki, I came across a reference about Revan's home world, saying it was somewhere in was believed to be somewhere in the Unknown Regions. This brings up another point: What if Revan was born on the homeworld of the True Sith, (This is where he may have inherited his amazing power) and then was brought into Republic space.

This is just an opinion from my collected data.

It could be a great background story add-on for Revan.

Revan should return from whatever mission he went on,
Reclaimer, Revan mentions his homeworld in KotOR1, but it may have been a memory implanted by the Jedi.

Revan should return from whatever mission he went on...

I'll just add this to that sentence: ...and be the character you play as again.

Revan should return from whatever mission he went on,
Reclaimer, Revan mentions his homeworld in KotOR1, but it may have been a memory implanted by the Jedi.

Yes, I believe it was Daelria(sp?). But it was believed that the Jedi planted this so he would NOT remember where he came from. Maybe after Revan remembered, he returned to his home planet.

I always thought that was the ailing Sith Order which was around before Revan and Malak. They turn up and take control of something already in existence but with no real political power left, Revan and Malak bolster that. Or at least, that's what KotOR seemed to imply. Maybe the "True Sith" are the Bladeborn, or something. I don't know of anything in KotOR or TSL that supports Revan and Malak joining forces/taking over an existing diminished group of Sith. On the contrary, I think KotOR makes it fairly clear that it was the Jedi and Republic military personnel, the ones that went with Revan and Malak to fight against the Mandalorians, that turned against the Republic after they defeated the Mandalorians and nothing is mentioned about them obtaining support from any groups outside those two. But Canderous specifically mentions in KotOR that it was the Sith that came to the Mandalorians and encouraged them to invade Republic space. So if the Sith were talking to the Mandalorians before the Mandalorians had invaded the Republic then it obviously wasn't Revan or Malak. And then of course Kreia has a great many things to say about the "true Sith" although it remains to be seen how much of what she said is true.

Unless of course you want to make the stretch of saying that Revan had secretly gone DS before the Mandalorian Wars ever started and was the one who approached the Mandalorians about starting the war. That would have given Revan a legitimate reason for raising an army under Revan's control to repel the Mandalorian threat. Sounds very Palpy-like though and thus IMO would be quite unoriginal (and disappointing) if this were the case... ;)

But the Bladeborn idea sounds intriguing.

Yes, I believe it was Daelria(sp?). But it was believed that the Jedi planted this so he would NOT remember where he came from. Maybe after Revan remembered, he returned to his home planet.

It's spelled Deralia. I believe also Kreia mentioning that it was the call of home that drew Revan to the Unknown Regions so that's not entirely a speculation.

Unless of course you want to make the stretch of saying that Revan had secretly gone DS before the Mandalorian Wars ever started and was the one who approached the Mandalorians about starting the war. That would have given Revan a legitimate reason for raising an army under Revan's control to repel the Mandalorian threat.
I like that idea! Even if it is "Palpy-like," it would be a great plan for getting the two strongest forces in the galaxy to fight against each other so that you can sweep in after they have killed each other. Evil Sith plotting at its best! :lightning

@Reclaimer: It was "Daralia" or "Deralia" ;)

The "Builders" - the Rakata of the Infinite Empire - had been on Korriban 20 thousand years prior, and they seem to have enslaved everyone they came across and scattered them among the stars. It stands to reason, therefore, that Korriban would not be the only planet inhabited by the race of the Sith, which means that the Dark Jedi that came to Korriban and interbred with them, creating the Sith of the Hyperspace War, and the resulting internal strife which left Korriban a dead planet, would not have eradicated the species.

But it is never clarified that Kreia specifically says that they will be in K3. Sure, in TSL she says "True Sith." Once. Never anywhere else, and they are never mentioned in KOTOR. And as I mentioned in another thread, that doesn't necessarily have to mean the species.
Actually the true Sith are mentioned in KOTOR and called Sith'ari.

Actually the true Sith are mentioned in KOTOR and called Sith'ari.

No, Sith'ari is more like the Sith type of Buddha, their idea of a perfect being, freed from all restrictions and capable to do everything he wants.

It's spelled Deralia. I believe also Kreia mentioning that it was the call of home that drew Revan to the Unknown Regions so that's not entirely a speculation.

But i beleive Kreia mentions that is just speculation, doesn't she?

I think the fact that "The True Sith" and Revan were from the same planet brings up too many plot holes...why didn't he tell anyone about them?

Revan should return from whatever mission he went on,
Reclaimer, Revan mentions his homeworld in KotOR1, but it may have been a memory implanted by the Jedi.

The only way that could be done is if they seemlessly integrate a police photofit into the game for the player to describe the person in the "Revan-mask" who mugged him outside Aldi.

What are you talking about, HerbieZ?

You know like in Kotor 2 they asked you subtle questions such as Atton saying about Revan being female and you have the option to correct him or not. That locks the rest of the story as Revan being whatever gender. Im saying for revan to return there would have to be a similar way of getting his apperance. The Majority (MOJOrity) of that post though was alcohol fueled, as coincidentally is this one so it's upto you to read into it.