I still have much to learn, Steve-o-Kreesh. I ask you, may I become your Padawan? You seem to have some of the same views as me. And you are right, Jacen Solo knew that the Force did not have a light or Dark Side, it was just a metaphor. The Force users have a light and dark side. This is why I do not use the Force as my one only option. I use the White Current, Dathomiri Force spells, and the Force. You could teach me about the Force, and I could teach you about the Current and the Force Spells. (I don't know how to do smiley's so here it is. Smiley face.)
Well Jedimaster12, having her head bashed into a stone pillar didn't help with her psychological issues either. Or the shots to the abdomen or the choke hold Sion put on her too.
Was she manipulative? Yes. But calm yourself my apprentice, she was no witch. If it wasn't for Kreia 4000 years ago(as the time line goes), the Jedi would have died out long ago. She trained the exile and brought him back to the Force. She gave him the knowledge to rebuild the Jedi (or the Sith) and start a new Jedi order with what he (or she) learned from her. If it wasn't for Kreia, the Jedi order would have died on Peragus II. For that and that alone, do I respect her.
As for the council at the exile's trial, I have no respect for them at all. They sent the exile packing because Revan didn't come back to stand trial. The exile was the only one that did come back to face trial, unlike Revan. The exile was a scapegoat for Revan. They had no right to make the exile leave the order for doing what he believed in, protecting the the innocent. Then they betrayed him again, when they tried to strip him of the Force. They were afraid of him because of what he did and what he became. They thought him a wound in the force but they were wrong. He was the only hope for the Jedi and the Force. Was Kreia right in killing those Masters? No, but in your own words, she was a manipulative witch. ;)
I await your arrival to Onderon, my apprentice.
To Revan Skywalker: I would welcome you if you decided to join me and JediMaster12 for training. You may study and train with us on Onderon. I sense there is much for you to learn. No one's view of the Force is perfect. We are only human after all. Perhaps the time on Onderon will help you find what your looking for in the Force. But I must warn you that I will teach you as a Jedi teaches an apprentice. Unlike the Dathomiri, I am not an isolationalist. We will help those in need and protect others from harm. That is the way of a Jedi. :)
I will protect them too. All I am saying is that I focus on more areas than just the Light and Dark Sides of the Force users. I don't believe the Force has a Light and Dark Side. I am jumping into hyperspace right now, on my ship, the Truth. I will be on Onderon in two minutes. I have already built a lightsaber, so don't worry about that, Master. It has a blue blade, and a compact handle. I also carry a blaster. When we are done with training, you must come with me to Dathormir, where the Force whiches have many spells to teach you, such as a sphere of light. Then we must go to the Fallenasi, where they will give you the ability to see into the future brightly. a.k.a. my sig. Thank you for exeptinbg me, Master.
Yes Master Steve-O-Kreesh, I see that as well. She did bring the Exile back to the Force. I'm not sure about Master Vrook. He seemed a bit like Master Windu when he was adamant against training Anakin. There were times when you kind of liked him and other times when you lose respect for him, like he is so mired in his opinion. Maybe he is like that because he lost a padawan at Malachor like so many others. If that were the case, he would be the male version of Kreia except he has no hatred of the Force. Atris I thought was too rash, like she had a hatred for the Exile for not obeying the Council.
I believe the Jedi as guardians of peace and justice; they protect the innocent when able. I see that they are not perfect because I took a leaf out of Jolee's book about the concept of love how in the end it would save you. I think that is what made the Exile and Revan able to leave those they loved behind to protect them from a greater evil to come.
As for calling Kreia a manipulative witch, I was merely quoting Atton, but then again h was a strange character, even after the Exile trained him as a Jedi.
My astro droid tells me that we are coming up on Onderon in three standard hours. :)
I've been following this thread for some time, and now that I have my thoughts coalesced into something (hopefully) coherent, I think I can share them.
As has been previously stated, I believe Master Vandar's description of the Jedi as the "defenders of the galaxy and sworn protectors of the Republic" is a good starting point. However, that only describes the role they play, not "who they are." Republic soldiers also play that role, but they are not Jedi. The Jedi are people who are able to feel The Force and use it. They formed an order so that they could teach their ways and establish guidelines for the behavior of their members. Anyone who calls himself a Jedi, must accept the teachings of the Order and agree to live by them to the best of his ability. Does that mean you never vary from the Code? Certainly not. It means that you try to follow the Code, and when you do violate it, you feel remorse at doing so. If you take issue with something in the Code, you try to change it from within. That is why I dislike the term "Dark Jedi." If you are dark, you have rejected the teachings of the Order and are therefore no longer a Jedi.
Yes, that is a legalistic view, but I also believe you can be a Jedi in spirit if you feel The Force and use it and follow the Jedi teachings while not officially swearing loyalty to the Order. Much good can be accomplished by these individuals, as well. However, this is a dangerous path because having another to teach you and hold you accountable can help prevent you from straying to false teachings (the Dark Side).
While I believe the Jedi Order is a good insitution full of good people, I also believe the Order made some big mistakes. They became arrogant and underestimated the strength of those who used the Dark Side. Why did they not see the rise of Darth Sidious? They were not looking in the right places. They thought the enemy would fight them on their terms, not his. This is the classic blunder of almost every institution that gets overthrown. They also became too concerned with the preservation of their Order, rather than the protection of the galaxy.
However, I think the greatest mistake of the Jedi Order was their stubborn insistence upon avoiding relationships with others. Just because relationships bring entanglements, does not mean they must be avoided. Relationships can bring weakness, but they are also a source of great strength. Just ask any soldier, and he will tell you that he is often inspired to do things he never thought he could do because he wanted to protect those he loved and make them proud. That is where Anakin and Luke Skywalker finally brought balance. Luke used his relationships as a source of strength. In ROTJ, Luke says to the Emperor, "Your arrogance is your weakness." The Emperor responds, "Your faith in your friends is yours." That is where he was wrong, and why he ultimately failed. At the end, the love between a father and son prevailed over lust for power. It was that love that kept the Jedi Order from becoming extinct and did lead to the extinction of the Sith Lords.
I see that you follow some of Jolee Bindo's advice. You make a good point though about the Jedi and a soldier for the Republic with the defenders of the Galaxy. I often find myself saying such arrogance on the part of the Council. As we have heard from various others, the Jedi are not perfect; they are human, or whatever they are. I think the biggest debate is over the issue of relationships and love. I stick by what Jolee says and what you see to say too. I've seen it countless times where someone gets that last ounce of strength to triumph because of love.
I must sign off because I'm approaching Onderon.
I am looking forward to meet you, Jedi Master12 and Master Steve-o-Kreesh.
To jimbo fett 66: You are a very wise individual. You have a good grasp on what it means to be a Jedi. It is true that the Order was founded by people who wanted to feel and use the Force. But when we Jedi are not defending the galaxy, we must spend our time studying and learning more about what Force has to offer. There are many techniques to learn, almost too many to learn in one lifetime. And that is just the Jedi teachings. There are the teachings of the Baran Do, the Matukai, the Zeison Sha, the Jal Shey, and the Dathomiri to name a few. It is my belief that a person cannot resrict themselves to just the Jedi teachings. Like Jacen Solo, I believe Jedi must study with other orders in order to have a wider view of the Force. A diverse understanding will help every Jedi in the long run.
jimbo fett 66 I think if you ever decided to, you would make a very good addition to the Jedi order. I sense you have been through a lot in your life and that you try to follow many of the Jedi beliefs already. You will always be welcome to Jedi order if you choose to join us. :)
I must go now, my new apprentices are arriving to my location. I must go to Iziz spaceport to welcome them.;)
I am pleased to meet you, Master, in person. What is it you wish me to do?
Just remember the Jedi Code. Even Master Zhar said that they were to be used as a guide towards every decision a Jedi makes. We have basic guides, it just depends on our judgment, our choice. Choices decie where your path leads you. Only the journey is written, not the destination.
I await at Iziz and I'm not sure if the Port Master will give me a starport visa.
I once harboured the calm stoicism of the order. Once, long ago.
There was a time when I followed the whim of my masters without hesitsation.
...without thought. ...without conscience.
For an outsider, the connection I had with my masters could have easily been mistaken for love, for I would have given my life for theirs. As time went on, however, my eyes were open to the complacency and destructive self absorbtion I saw in the order.
With nothing more than a conversation and the relenquishing of my lightsaber, I left the order of my own accord and with no bad feelings. I am no longer a jedi, but I am an accomplished sabarist and force adept. I no longer hold all of the same ideals as the order, but I am not a sith. My connection to the force is as strong as it ever was. Does that make me a dark jedi?
I don't feel dark. I'm not evil. On the contrary, occasionally, I'll hire out and hunt sith. Unlike other masters of the force, a darkside presence hardly escapes my notice. It is a gift I have which helps me in my quests. Perhaps it's what keeps me from crossing over and into the darker realm. Some of the dreams I have are quite...
...anyway, I still have much to learn.
But, even as ignorant as I am, I still use what talents, skills, and force powers I've aquired to help those in thie galaxy that are less fortunate. What good is spending your life studying countless teachings if they are not used in preserving the qalaxy?
Jimbo fett 66 hit on a very good point. You don't have to be of the jedi order to lend a hand in defending those less fortunate in this galaxy. Soldiers, pilots, engineers, droids, and yes even civilians do thier part too.
I happen to be on Onderon for a conference. Perhaps we will run into each other. Perhaps not. I know you jedi usually travel alone, or in pairs. But if you ever need assistance tracking or hunting sith, I am at your service.
...FOR THE REPUBLIC !
I see you may be a fan of Trask. I said it as well that I saw the point on you don't have to be a Jedi to help others. In a book I read it mentioned that those younglings who weren't chosen as padawans were sent to help others like at the Agri-Corps project on Bandomeer. I believe Kreia said that every action sends repercussions across the Force, touching all that it contacts with. Maybe the Jedi see this repercussion more clearly, I don't know.
I haven't read the whole thread so I might mention something has been said….
I agree that the Jedi code and the sith code have flaws, but that’s the point of it, I mean that there are no perfect things in life and so are these teachings…
The jedi: they say that they are the guardians of the galaxy and protectors of the republic, well that’s foolish because the republic got them at last, so the things they were defending are proved to be wrong, I know that the sith were ruling by that time, but it is really a foolishness to protect a system based on politics which based on return on lies and cheatings, and the last two are the way of the sith, so we see that this cycle will lead us to a dangerous info : the Jedi are protecting the sith…
Another thing, in the conversation between Obiwan and Anakin, the last one said "if you are not with me then you are my enemy" and Obi responded "only a sith deals with absolutes" which is an absolute statement itself…and in another part of their battle Anakin said "from my point of view the jedi are evil" and Obi responded "then you are lost" and this is another absolute statement…not just that the idea of evil and good, is an absolute idea, so the whole absolute thing is wrong.
The sith: they are living only to have more power, greed is their way and death is their fate, for none can last in power forever, and that’s a flaw, they hate and hate and hate…and that will lead them to nothing, they are strong and they might be stronger than the jedi, but they will always lose because they don’t love eachothers, if they unite they would have destroyed the jedi, that’s why the jedi order lasted for years, because they don’t depend on one master, while the sith depend on one and only one, the dark lord of the sith, which means that they will fall right after the fall of this lord.
The jedi are arrogant, yes that’s true and the sith are stupid because they think that they are clever while they fight eachothers and that's not cleverness, so I will form my own order based on my own ideas, I am with the shadow side.
Ah hard to see the darkside is. Maybe you would be better off training on Onderon. The grey Jedi as mentioned by my master are seen as misguided but the sith see them as Jedi. The grey Jedi see neither light nor dark. Think of Jacen Solo. He could see that there is no lightside or darkside of the Force, the Force is the Force but there are lightside and darksides of a person. It is the person, not the Force, that the Republic has been broken and rebuilt with. TSL was trying to emphasize that it was choice because every decision we make sends repercussions across the galaxy. That is a lesson to think on.
thats the point i wanted to clear...the force is one but we defer, but i dont agree with you that a shadow (gray) cant see light nor dark...my openion that he know themboth and see them both and thats why he stays neutral for he knows that if he choosed to enter one of these sides he will be consumed by it forces which will make him forget about himself and the fact that every person has two sides within him...
To jimbo fett 66: You are a very wise individual. You have a good grasp on what it means to be a Jedi.
Thank you. I cannot tell you how much that means to me.
jimbo fett 66 I think if you ever decided to, you would make a very good addition to the Jedi order. I sense you have been through a lot in your life and that you try to follow many of the Jedi beliefs already. You will always be welcome to Jedi order if you choose to join us. :)
Thank you again. I have wanted to become a Jedi Knight ever since my junior high school days, when I first saw Star Wars in the theaters nearly thirty years ago.
Sorry I haven't posted lately, I've been busy training my apprentices. :)
To Korfreedonn The Ecclesiastes: If you haven't done so, please read this thread in it's entirety. If you do, you will understand my own beliefs and those I try to teach my Padawans. I am a Grey Jedi, not in the highest standing with the Jedi council. I serve the Order & the Force, but not the council. They see me as misguided with my views and see me as a sort of troublemaker. ;) You may not agree with me and that is fine (this is a forum after all!). But I urge you to read the entire thread before you post again, this has been a very interesting topic to discuss. :)
To Revan Skywalker: Your first lesson is to join JediMaster12 and seek the beastriders. They have taught me some very useful things about Onderon. The lessons they teach you are essential in learning later lessons with me. Listen and do as they, and treat them with the same respect that you do me.
May the force be with you and guide you, my apprentice.:)
Thanks steve, you have a great ideas but its not similar to mine (well most of it)...you work for the order and the force...i work not for an order, i am alone and i want to keep still in this way, now i want to master the force in my solitude and after then...who knows i might join you...
Korfredonn The Ecclesiastes, there is much to learn of the Force and the Jedi. When a Jedi interacts with other people, they learn much too. You learn how the galaxy is formed through all individuals. The beastriders are ineresting people. They spend much of their lives trying to tame the beasts of Onderon, considering they once lived in Iziz. I remember what Kreia told Atton that he could survive in place where Jedi couldn't simply because they don't hear the Force as he does. Interesting no?
How true you are my apprentice, but if Korfredonn seeks solitude in order for a better understanding of the force, then he may find the answers to the questions he has. Remember that I myself sought solitude here on Onderon before I took you on as an apprentice. I was able to find many answers to the questions I had, and I see no wrong in someone who follows a path that I once traveled myself. :)
To Korfredonn: May the force be with you and guide you. I hope you find the answers you seek in the Force. If you decide to join me and my apprentices on Onderon, I think I'm going to have to build an enclave for those who wish to study with me. ;)
thanks but i'm not thinking of joining anyone now...maybe later...i might be away but i am near...
JediMaster12, I am ready for the quest. Are you?
Just an FYI people, we have a Roleplaying Forum (
http://www.lucasforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=395), that would be better suited for this Master and Apprentice type of roleplay. ;)
Sorry about that. To get back on track, the Jedi are people who can wield the Force, so do the Sith. It all comes to how you use your power. Any takers?
@Revan Skywalker: send me a Private Message about training.
There is truth to all. In all things, there is perception. You must make sure that, in your effort to protect all that is good and wholesome, you don't go too far into the otherside of the ditch. Is it wrong to love someone and be with them, no, it's not. But to allow them to control your actions, that's wrong. Some find strength in relationships, some, weakness.
In Anakin's case, he thought that the Galaxy owed him one. Maybe he started out as a slave, but that didn't mean that the Galaxy belonged to him. I have a really hard time with people who think it's their "divine" right to own and control everything. Everyone is responsible for their destiny, their choices are what makes them light or dark...or grey ;) I walk in the light, but I'm not blinded by it. You must see things from everyone's point of view to find out where the truth lies.
However, I do believe that some things are universal. Everyone has a right to live, a right to make a good, honest living. However, I'm not blinded in thinking that this is the case. As it's been said in many times before, "Peaceful people can sleep well at night, knowing that rough men (and women ;) ) are willing to do violence on their behalf."
The Jedi got too narrow minded. The sith, feel only for themselves. I agree with the Jedi more than the Sith and I'll stand against the darkness till I become One.
So you believe in certain inalienable rights and the whole concept of divine right is nonsense. To that I agree. I believe the Jedi were blinded by their role in the Republic but also by their arrogance which allowed the Sith to take over and create the Empire. We all have our feelings of patriotism and standing for what we think is right and the Jedi had their good intentions but at times they were completely wrong in spite of it. I will go far to say that at times it's the Grey Jedi that seem to get the picture, the whole picture, better than the Jedi Council. Maybe it's just because I can follow through with Jolee Bindo.
I think that this is our believe Potentium (
http://starwars.wikicities.com/wiki/Potentium)
So Potentium is like being a Grey Jedi? That was my understanding.
Just like Anakin said it, in my point of view the jedi are evil
Just like Anakin said it, in my point of view the jedi are evil
Then you are truly lost. :ben:
Yes, but then what is truth, nothing more than a point of view. Truth is an illusion to create stability and security. Truth is a lie. Is he truly lost? To be lost only means that something is to be found.
the jedi code is the biggest peice of crap i've ever heard. no showing emotions, because showing emotions is a weakness and trying to gaurd against you hearst desire such as romantic love. They are like robots with lightsabers....not very happy people i'm guessing....being taken away from their families and discouraged to see them ever again. I would hate to be a jedi. on the other hand i would like to weild the force though. if i were in the fantasy universe of star wars i would beleive in pontenium or whatever he said being neutral is a good thing in my POV because judging a situation is much easier from a neutral stand point, easier to choose what is more productive better for the long run.... i would rather help a hobo get a job then giving him some money. and sometimes doing the politically "wrong" thing actually helps you more than the politically "right" way
To me, the Jedi are mostly people who try to handle their power in a responsible way while seeking to help those around them. However, I feel that the version of their Code seen in the KOTOR games is unhealthy, and could probably cause mental instability. In Revan's time, they seem to be a rather secluded organization, shutting themselves away from the rest of the galaxy. They seem to be getting more self-centered and excessively cautious, perhaps because they fear change. Also, their Code promotes the complete suppression of emotions, the avoidance of attachments and an alienation from one's family. It is my opinion that they fear emotions, and perhaps they have difficulty dealing with them. Another, more sinister theory could be that they have established all these rules in order to keep their apprentices under their complete control, isolated from any outside influences. Also, and despite their Code, some Jedi become arrogant, self-righteous and indifferent to other people's problems.
I have discovered the full truth. This truth: the Jedi and Sith are not really Jedi or Sith at heart. It is their ideals, people. The Force does not take sides with one or the other, it simply exists. Every Jedi, including the great Bindo and Jacen, the two most grey Jedi the galaxy have ever known... has never known the truth. They are stuck to their ideals, and grey Jedi are no different. The seek a balance between the too empty Jedi and the too emotional Sith. Both have disadvantages. The Jedi are supposed to ahve no emotion, and this makes the Jedi look evil, for sitting on their butts all day and mediatating. The Sith like emotions, and they allow them too much, so they throw fits easily and people get hurt. This makes the Sith look evil. In the end, both are truly evil because they cannot grasp the fact that they should not interfear with the Force's plans. If a war starts, it's the Force's will. If the galaxy gets destroyed, it's the Force's will. They have every right to defend themselves, but no right to interfear with the highest force in the universe. It is for this reason that they continue to fight each other. They can't grasp the truth. Only a Jedi Master named Qui-Gon Jinn did. He knew to let the Force take him where it would, and he let happen what would happen. He was not always this way, but I assure you, he finally got it, as have I. Whether you will is up to you. Most will continue to argue about the funadmental conflict of the universe. Light against Dark. Good against Evil. But doing this at all is evil, becuase you are innterupting the flow of life.
Yes, but then what is truth, nothing more than a point of view. Truth is an illusion to create stability and security. Truth is a lie. Is he truly lost? To be lost only means that something is to be found.
Tell me: If I steal your car, and tell you I didn't, am I telling the truth? After all, truth is an opinion.
The perfect Jedi is one who acknowledges the darkness as a part of the balance that they try so hard to preserve.
The perfect Jedi is one who wouldn't have treated Anakin's dark outbursts like they would simple growing pains.
The perfect Jedi, however, doesn't really exist. Grey Jedi are the closest to 'perfection.' They're not dogmatic pacifists or psychopaths.
Uthar Wynn, always struck me as the grey Jedi type - despite the Sith teachings. He was always aware of the risks someone in his position was exposed to. Despite this, he was still a teacher. If not for what would have had to been considerable darkness in his soul (for he was the leader of the Sith academy) I think he would have made one hell of a powerful grey Jedi.
Luke Skywalker's, adventures after the Battle of Yavin elevate him to the kind of persona that would fit my definition of 'perfect Jedi.' At one point he even gave into the Emperor and served the dark side. Very close to 'perfect.' He had the same kind of attitude Jolee, had, but was considerably more powerful; excellent!
One thing is following the will of the Force, another is being completely controlled by it. Kreia hated the Force because of the way it would manipulate all being and "let millions die just to achieve some measure of balance". If the Force is in all living things, as some Masters have stated, then the logical thing for a Jedi to do would be promoting life, nurturing it, protecting it.The problem with the Sith is that they subvert the Force, using its power for their own petty ambitions. They don't care how much destruction they cause. I don't know if there's such thing as a perfect Jedi. Some people would probably try to achieve the best possible result by any means necessary, but would that be the right thing? I'll use one of my experimental TSL characters as an example: he brought about the best possible outcome for each of the planets, but still wiped out the Masters, and he could be violent and darksided. He wiped out the scavengers in the ruins of the Enclave when they disrespected them, and offed a certain thief during the moisture vaporators incident. He also did some tampering with a certain will, to keep an unworthy, greedy scavenger from getting her hands on Jedi artifacts. In Nar Shadaa, he wiped the floor with all the thugs who defied him, and in that part where you run into a bunch of them threatening a man, he forced them to jump off the platform.
^Your point is so unfathomable. What are you trying to get across? (Same question to you, Revan Skywalker).
William Petersen says: Pick one point, then try to make it. And for the love of god use paragraphs.
Anyway, this thread is really starting to lose it's focus. We're supposed to be discussing each other's views on what would constitute a 'perfect Jedi;' not pick out the ever obvious flaws attached to following any creed.
Of course the self destructive path of the Sith is greatly flawed - we know already, the chaos resulting in the 'one master, one apprentice' system outlines that beautifully.
And as HK has pointed out every time I've played through TSL: The Jedi leave themselfs far too vulnerable by putting the problems of the entire galaxy before their's. Yes the Clone Wars were important and their role was vital, but; Count Dooku, told Obi-Wan, that the Republic was already under the control of the Sith Lord while on Geonosis. The ignorance of the council up untill just before the Battle of Coruscant was what ultimately sealed the Order's fate.
But none of this is the point. We're here to rattle on about what would make a Jedi 'perfect.'
Mental stability is one thing. You get Jedi going psycho left and right, and the Sith are crazy and proud of it. You also need someone who isn't an extremist. Take a look at Jolee. Instead of leading a sheltered life, like those of the Order, he experienced things for himself and drew his own conclusions. He doesn't go around lecturing people on what he thinks they should do. So the perfect Jedi is someone experienced, flexible, mentally stable and true to principles he can live with.
After all, truth is an opinion.
Exactly.
@Revan Skywalker: what is evil then. Nothing more than a point of view. What separates the Jedi and the Sith is CHOICE. The ability to make a concious decision separates those who gain power for themselves and those who gain power for the use of everyone. Yes power does corrupt; we've seen it.
By the way, I am surprised that this thread was revived. I had forgetten
Nope. Evil is doing bad things.
Then what do you call the Jedi killing? They say it is for the greater good yet it is a bad thing. So in a way, the Jedi are evil because their actions are bad.
They are Guardians of Peace and Justice. Although they have an irritating tendancy to be arrogent. And then there is the issue of power corrupts, which seems to have claimed many a Jedi. Their aim to be calm level headed and Serene is noble and smart, but sometimes i think they handle the dogma is a little too authoritarian which might cause problems with the knights. But i think some of the wiser ones are the true uncorrupted champions...we don't seem to see a lot of them though...i guess its more exciting to have War in the galaxy...i suppose its hard to be peaceful and succesful in a franchise called Star WARS.
The Jedi are fools and arrogant to boot. They may be the guardians of peace and justice but who are they to determine what is the greater good? The Sith on the other hand care nothing for others and are obsessed only with gaining power. Both are evil influences. The lesser of the two seems to be the Jedi.
Who is anyone to determine the greater good? Sombody must make decisions. They are supposed to work with the Republic anyway.
the jedi are evil and good its a point of view like in ROTS 'from my point of view the jedi are evil' that shows that its all down to choice the sith may want greater good but in a different way they think there going to do the greater good its very confusing. Take like Hitler for example i dont think he though he was doing bad things but everyone else did in a way.
I'm thinking the way the entire galaxy celebrated the death of the emperor at the end of ep.VI shows that the Sith's view of what's 'good,' doesn't mesh with just about everyone else's.
Duh because it is all based on opinion!!
Ugh, yes, just because a person is entitled to their opinion doesn't mean that whatever they think is right.
Good and evil aren't matter's of opinion when you're talking about extremes. There are criteria to guide you with such things. We can't start making up the definitions of words... What the Sith do, evil. The Jedi, good.
Or I'll take some liberties and make up words; the Sith, drexdelzz! The Jedi, molinvians.
IMO that's what they are, drexdelzz's and molinvians!!1