Kotor is about making the charactor your own. It wouldn't work.

I would say that KotOR is about giving you the illusion that the character is your own. Your character's background, actions, etc, are all predetermined. You only have a small amount of freedom in how you go about things -- you still have to do all the same things, follow the same story, and end up in the same place.

That's really not that much different than The Nameless One. Just because they let you choose one of six poly models to represent your character doesn't make that much of a difference.

Personally, I would rather the delvs spend time on more important things, though.

Complete agreement, as I said. Don't mean we can't discuss a thing, Cap'n ;-).

I would say that KotOR is about giving you the illusion that the character is your own. Your character's background, actions, etc, are all predetermined. You only have a small amount of freedom in how you go about things -- you still have to do all the same things, follow the same story, and end up in the same place.

And one of those freedoms is how your character looks like. Like Jackel mentionned, voices are different from one culture to another.
Even the form of your face could affect your voice. You'd have one voice for every possible head. Considering we all want to be able to customize our faces, it'll be pretty hard to make a voice for every single possible combination...

That's really not that much different than The Nameless One. Just because they let you choose one of six poly models to represent your character doesn't make that much of a difference.


Yes it does. Like Jackel said, which I just repeat, nobody has the same voice. It really depends on how they look like.

Yes it does. Like Jackel said, which I just repeat, nobody has the same voice. It really depends on how they look like.

Of course no one has the same voice? I'm not sure what that has to do with how they look, though. Perhaps you could explain a little more? I'm not disagreeing with you here, I just don't understand your point.

From here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_voice):

"The human voice is a complex instrument. Humans have vocal cords which can loosen or tighten or change their thickness and over which breath can be transferred at varying pressures. The shape of chest and neck, the position of the tongue, and the tightness of otherwise unrelated muscles can be altered. Any one of these actions results in a change in pitch, volume, timbre, or tone of the sound produced."

^^^
Though we do have intuition about what someone will sound like (or conversely, what someone we have heard will look like), that intution seems often wrong. Test it out: turn to a random radio station, get a picture of the person speaking, and then see if you're right. I really can't speak for anyone but myself and my experimental subjects (aka the other grad students in my lab I dragged over to try this ;-), but we're usually wrong, and I really don't think we're all outliers in this case.

I am no expert, and since you write without qualifiers, I'll assume you know more than me. I am therefore completely willing to accept the authority of your wikipedia article (and as you interpret it) for the purposes of this discussion. However, like a good little mindless student, I must raise a few things before I go on:

I believe the wikipedia article is talking about how you use your chest, neck and tongue, more than about how they are built (though I acknowledge a relation between the two). Further, the accuracy of those statements is questioned on the discussion page for the article, so it seems that at least some people disagree. Finally, it's hard to judge who is right, because there is no source quoted for the statement.

That said, by your interpretation the following things affect voice:


shape of the chest
shape of the neck
shape of the tongue
musculature around the above areas


I'd even be willing to grant a separate list, not in the article, that could possibly affect the vocal chords:


size
body fat content
age
gender
health (including smoking and the like)


My next point would be, however, that apart from gender, the PC poly models in KotOR do not differ substantially in any of these respects. There is nothing in either list to differentiate the male models, or the female models.

Regardless of the appearance-voice correlation, I still don't disagree with you about a full voice for the PC, though I still like Bob Lion54's idea of a partial Neverwinter Nights like solution. But as I said earlier, I'm not in favour of the full voice for other reasons. However, I also maintain that a full voice can (and has) worked in a story-driven RPG. And I will now add that I think it can work in an RPG where you pick the PC's poly model, in case that wasn't clear :-).

I agree 110% on this. Moreover, it would be a bit weird in terms of gameplay: we would have to read all the possible answers and then make our selection and hear the answer afterwards...I bet most of us would just click to skip it. It's just a loss of ressources IMHO.

Yeah, I would be a little bit wierd. I mean, I have played games like this before- Anybody ever played that puzzle/adventure (at least I think that is what it is considered) game, Legacy of Time? You would talk to people and be given a set of questions you could ask. Then, your little "guide" ( a head on the right) would say a short version of what you said, just so if it was a long question he would only say a few summarizing words. It was cool, but I didn't really think it added anything.

I am for putting voices back in for the lines out of conversation like "Didn't work", "The force fights with me!", "Damn, - Poison!", or "That had to hurt". I think that made your character quite a bit better as you actually have a voice. Of course, -->

I agree 110% LIAYD! Hence why it is bad for certain types of games to give the main character a voice, as each of us want or imagine our PC's having a different voice.


As he has said, we all imagine our voices to be different. But, I still think that they should have a voice, or even maybe a couple of choices of voices you can have. For me, it adds a lot, even if I am playing as a certain character and their voice is a bit different than what I thought it was.

You could have an option to turn off the PC's voice if that's not your thing. I think it would be a nice addition to the game.

And if I really hate it, I want to be able to turn it off, that would be a nice feature. Anyways, I'm sure some people will be so into a fight that they might be talking to the enemy saying stuff like "take that!" or putting the "Damn!!!" exclamation in by themselves when they can't open a door (I know I have before..... "CHEATER!!! You better not use death field on me again!!" hehehe...).

As for face customization, I want it to a point. I still want to have basic head models that you can maybe change hair color, skin tone, and eyes, stuff like that, but I still want to just be able to pick a default head from KI and II.

A PC voice would be dumb, and here's why: You don't want to sit there and read the options you have JUST to click one and listen to it read back. It kind of makes the player out to look like an idiot.

^^^^

Yeah, I don't think that would be good, but I want one for out of conversation.

How about you just read the line out loud to yourself? That way you are your own voice. Your family & neighbors might think you've finally cracked up but hey... who cares right?

YUP. No need to voice act the PC's conversation (Guy Threepwood in Monkey Island style)...

Back on topic. The face customization would be a very cool bonus if included. You'd be able to make ANYONE be in the game... including yourself, which is the coolest.

face customization: good and bad. i've played a few wwe wrestling games.
some of them have had face templates (more than kotor though, they had something like 70 something faces), and the player could then choose from hair templates and facial hair templaces. this was pretty cool.
they've also had completely customizable faces. eyes, eyebrows, nose, mouth, hair length, everything. it took forever.
i think the simplest thing to do would just be to stick with face templates, but have more.
dark side transitions i thought were really great. i played LS a couple times first. when i first got the DS faces i freaked out.

It looks like the overwhelming majority of us have voted for face customiziation, but are split on this whole PC voice acting.

Yes, Have a voice for the PC. They'd just need a male and female actor to read out the lines and cover all the bases. Also I like the customizeable faces idea- hair style, hair color facial features etc. The more options the better.

Doing that for just K1 would make it cover more than two DVD:s! :smash:

Yes to face costumization. No to voice acting for the PC. 'Why?' you ask? Because for one thing it would take a lot longer than it does now to get through a dialogue, every player has a different vision, and because D333 said no. If you can't agree with a Quebecoise (Je m'excuse pour aucun des accents et mal grammaire) lawyer you can't agree with anyone.

YEAH!!! YEAH!!!! YEAH!!!!!!!!!! I want a red eyed sith! And a handsome lightsider! And a scarred evil doer! And an alien jedi!

PD: And yes for voice acting. There could be a list of voices for male/female and that you are given the option to choose the one you want. How about a scary voice for a dark lord? Or a seductive voice?

I don't see why they couldn't do PC appearance customization. I am playing a game right now that lets you customize face/hair style, skin color, hair color, body build, tattoos and tattoo colors, and even lets you choose the clothes you start with. Since the game is based on the same engine as KOTOR, I don't understand why they didn't do this in the first place.

Well, yes, theres a lotta games with full face and body customization, theres no reason why KOTOR shouldn't.

Yeah, I think K3 should have face customization. The way I see it, the less need we have for mods (to make different heads in this case), the better the game is.

well i've made another thread about PC Voice Acting Since this thread has gone a little off track.

The Customization of your face and body was introduced in Fable, but I would love it if in Kotor 3 you could have tatoos, battle scars, customized haircuts, you name it. Because Kotor 3 will probably be coming out for XBOX 360 the game should be as customized as possible.

This would be too sweet as long as it's development and application has no negative affect on the gameplay.

The Customization of your face and body was introduced in Fable, but I would love it if in Kotor 3 you could have tatoos, battle scars, customized haircuts, you name it. Because Kotor 3 will probably be coming out for XBOX 360 the game should be as customized as possible.

Being able to customize the player's appearance would be great indeed, as long as we don't take it too far. I wouldn't want to waste my time having to eat, sleep, or use the bathroom fo example; that would be a little too much (if I wanted that much customization, I could just play The Sims).

And btw, Fable was a disappointment to say the least.

I think face and nody customisation only increases your bond with the character.
I think it will be a good idea, since it will add some extra gameplay options.
conversations with NPC's will be more personal, and the developer can use that in their advantage.

Definately on face customisation. Say goodbye to mods with various new skins and say hello to countless formulas and screens posten on how to make the perfect Obi Wan or Anakin... Loving it...

I personally thought the selection they gave for the PC were fine. To customize the PC would be a good modding project for modders.

Yeah same. As long as they keep the asian male one with the crop cut, I am fine. He looks exactly like me. Odd, but true.

Now that's a scary thought. Thanks for the Support.

Yeah. Scary, but as I mentioned before, true.

Yep. I definitely want face customization in KotOR III. However, the engine will have to support dynamic facial changes, as the player constants makes facial expressions and when he/she goes to the dark side, he/she turns pale, the veins and the eyes and all that.

My vote: Yes.

Yeah, I think K3 should have face customization. The way I see it, the less need we have for mods (to make different heads in this case), the better the game is.Indeed. The best game is one we don't want to mod at all.

But then where's the fun in creating something that the devs haven't come up with?

betta the the plain faces on kotor j/k

I'd like face customization, but I don't want to have to spend too much time on it before getting going on the game itself. I'd like to see race/hair color/hair style/eye color/skin color. I don't want to get to the point where I'm telling the customizer to do something like 'place a mole 2 cm below the eye on the left cheek 5 cm away from the nose'. I appreciate details and like the chance to alter some things, but I don't want to spend hours creating a 'look,' I want to play the game.
And if the choice is the ability to have good looks or have a good story, I'll take the good story any day and just use one of the basic faces.

Good point there. But I personally was happy with the generic look the devs created. if you want to customize a face, try it as a modd project.

Hey All,
Here's Another Poll For Ya All To Vote On...

I Thought About This Idea For A Fair While And Thought It Would Be A Cool Addition For KOTOR 3. Anyway, How Cool Would It Be To Customize Your PC's Face? Like The Eyes, Hair, Mouth, Colour, etc. For Those Who Have Played The Sims 1 Or 2, You Know What I'm Talking About. No More Just Picking Already Pre-loaded Faces. Argree Or Disargree I Think It Would Make A Big Difference To The Game.

Well That's What I Hopes In KOTOR 3.



What Do You Guys Think?
That would be a really good addition to KOTOR 3, that way there is more of a variety to the character, and it gives you a real PC rather than the 'here's a list of precreated heads, now pick thing.'

I was thinking now while playing EVE Online, they have a very interesting face customization thingy. The options for faces are various, but they are a little limiting. What isn't, are the sliders for adjusting the size and shape of different parts of the face. More jaw, less nose, etc. City of Heroes has these sliders too, but in a different way, and it also has sliders for the body. More shoulders, less muscle, longer legs, etc. That is the future of RPG customization, and that is: complete control. KotOR III should have a system like this, at least for the face.

I'd really like it if they let you customize your character's face! Like in World of Warcraft. But apart from that.. i dont want to customize anything besides the face.
And letting the Player Character have a voice would be good too. There are RPGs out there where the PC has a voice, like Vampire II [which is great imo] and Gothic I and II. Especially in Gothic the PC voice is just extremely good. But i dont really know, if some of you actually know that game, it is a german game.

If the devs let u choose wether u want a voice or not it would be great.

I think besides the face customization they should let your character say realy mean stuff and funny stuff.

I'd really like to be able to adjust the whole body - Toenails Of Death, here I come :D

I think besides the face customization they should let your character say realy mean stuff and funny stuff.That doesn't sound very Jedi like...

You have a point there but what if you start off as an average joe like my young 20 something pilot that I mentioned in a different thread. Could give some humour but then again I can't define humour because I laugh at the romance portions in the game.

I definitely need to switch to decaf or something. Maybe get jumped up on juma.

No, don't add a voice for the PC, unless you are going to record a voice for every language and every country! .... Not only is it unworkably difficult to do, it excludes other languages than English, and it doesn't allow for the fact that not everyone likes some people. Also, the Exile or REvan or whoever is meant to be YOU. How can any actor be YOU? It would remove the idea that you are the character....

DarthRevan3 (A.K.A.) me has/have already come up with a solution for this.
A microphone comes with the game, and you speak into it and npcs and party members react to it. Somebody said that that would cost too much money, but devoloping companies have tons, more than enough for this technology. That's my idea, I think it's good. :D :D :D

DarthRevan3 (A.K.A.) me has/have already come up with a solution for this.
A microphone comes with the game, and you speak into it and npcs and party members react to it. Somebody said that that would cost too much money, but devoloping companies have tons, more than enough for this technology. That's my idea, I think it's good. :D :D :D

that is a good idea, but before you start the game i'd say you would have to do some kind of voice training for the game to understand what your trying to say, kinda what windows xp has... which i couldn't be stuffed doing.... but its something the gaming industry could look into...

DarthRevan3 (A.K.A.) me has/have already come up with a solution for this.
A microphone comes with the game, and you speak into it and npcs and party members react to it. Somebody said that that would cost too much money, but devoloping companies have tons, more than enough for this technology. That's my idea, I think it's good. :D :D :DBut they aren't just going to spend money just because they have it (and they don't have as much as you might think). There has to be a return on investment. Is this feature going to cause a whole bunch of people to run out and buy the game? No. Not many players are going to buy this game just because of this.

That istrue. They would have to come up with a VERY good sales pitch to pull it off. Me, I would see it as a waste to spend extra just to hear myself talk? No way.

That istrue. They would have to come up with a VERY good sales pitch to pull it off. Me, I would see it as a waste to spend extra just to hear myself talk? No way.

me either......

me either......
there is a point were maybe there is alittle too much in a game like it would be cool if you could talk to you NPC's but lets think oh it this way how would that really work out plus you proablly have to buy some crap to make it work. Maybe a better idea is to put a KOTOR3 univerve into place and play with other people online and talk to them, even through some may say this would be too much like galaxies and such but maybe if they firgued it out all right. Maybe you could play the game with one or two others online i beleive that would be pretty fun to play through the game with a friend even through they would have to change alot of game stuff.

Another thing was i wanted to talk about the whole face custom thing, I think you sould be able to make your character very speciallike with height, weigth, beard, no beard, mohawk, maybe mullet, just make the character look how you want him/her to look. Also to be able to pick clothes color and armor colors along with be able to wear no shirt to show off those buff jedi muscles

Yes, this is an excellent idea, and one that I've had since playing Star Wars Galaxies. If kotor 3 has the same or similiar character generating engine as Galaxies, that would be a hundred times better than a dozen static pre-rendered default heads.

Hey, I like those default heads. Well, except in TSL one of the male PC heads looks like my brother only with the stubble of a beard. It's disturbing but it's neat.

I like the customization idea very much. We should be able to pick a character, and then change it as well.

I think that character's appearence is very important because it helps us to get into the character. I tried to do modding (read the tutorials, downloaded kotortool etc) but I'm a total noob and don't understand it :(

But I really like the appearence of my avatar (KOTOR2)