China will surpass you soon enough. If it keeps going toward capitalism, it will easily kill US economy. They have a main market of over a billion people. The USA's 300 million can't compete.

Back on topic:

Interesting site originally posted elsewhere:

http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm)

Average IQ of the state and who they voted for.

AMEN, Spider Al, Skinwalker, and Vagabond!

to see BU$H acting like a high school kid makes me VERY sad and concerned for our nation!

He's supposed to lead the FREE WORLD for crying out loud!

To see him goofing around like that shows he is NOT what he appears to BE!!!

It shows how the American public is DECIEVED! WE ARE DECIEVED! BU$H behaves like he has the IQ of an immature teenager and he has the nuclear button in his reach! HEAVEN HELP US!:drop2:

He give tax breaks to the rich and help oil billionares make more money like the fate of working families don't matter!

then he passes the patriot act wich invades the privacy of people so the FBI can simply grab anyone and put him in jail without trial!

LukeImYourDad, those are interesting statisics!

It shows that the lower I Q people are decieved by the news and media!




"How fortunate for leaders that men dont think!"

-Adolf Hitler



Pretty scary huh?

Originally posted by kipperthefrog
LukeImYourDad, those are interesting statisics!

It shows that the lower I Q people are decieved by the news and media!That site doesn't tell you how they got their information or how many people actually took the test in the individual states. As such, I wouldn't class it as very reliable.

Bush flipping off the camera is not a problem with me. I can recognize that doing so was not meant to be an insult to anyone; rather, he was most likely releasing tension. I imagine that probably none of you have had to give a speech of such importance before, and are unlikely to have firsthand information on the subject. You don't inspire loyalty by being uttlerly serious and feeling 'dead' (socially) all the time, and it is slightly strange that you would expect that, given the tone of Bush's campaign.

Morally, the act is not at issue. He was just having some fun with friends and coworkers, and not 'aiming' it at anyone - which would be either a very, very slightly immoral or not at all.

You know, I am tired of this. It's over. There's just no point in discussing it into the ground, except to perhaps make yourselves feel better. I have much more respect for Kerry than I did before, simply because he was able to take being defeated well, and with dignity. That alone. If I had agreed with his stance on issues, I would have supported him. Even with Bush I only agreed with him about half the time - had Kerry been the same, I might have gone with him.

Saying that people who are religious are by default generally 'stupid' or have low IQs is a mistake. Indeed, partisans saying the exact same things put me off Kerry's side in the first place.

I never claimed the site to be reliable though I wouldn't be amazed if the stats were similar.

I dont recall anyone saying that religious people are stupid.

rather, he was most likely releasing tension. I imagine that probably none of you have had to give a speech of such importance before, and are unlikely to have firsthand information on the subject.
I also imagine that probably none of us were ever president of the United States. THAT is the POINT. When he's in the public eye (which is almost always) he needs to be conducting himself in a way so as to present himself as dignified as possible. We elected him to lead our COUNTRY.

And that's a stupid way to releive tension, and if he were a half-decent public speaker there wouldn't BE any tension.

I've given plenty of speeches in my day, to some pretty large crowds and I didn't have to flip off my friends to calm me down before hand.



Edit - here's a website that posts average IQ in the states based on ACT and SAT scores.
http://www.sq.4mg.com/stateIQ-income.htm)

This is admittedly out of date since it came out ~2001 but it's probably pretty close.

Originally posted by kipperthefrog
-CLICKY- (http://www.mykeru.com/assets/media/flash/bush_finger.html)


I question the reliability of that source; it's very easy to video edit anyway.

people don't KNOW that becuase the news just show our army and the iraqis tearing down the Saddam statue! the didn't show them leaving a weopons area unguarded to protect an oil field! the news decieved the public! the public lets the media form their opinions! people are being brainwashed!

Oh really? So you're saying the media only shows the positives of Iraq? HA! It's totally the opposite. The media has shown many clips and footage of the bad things that have happened in Iraq. (Why don't you all use your beloved Fahrenheit 9/11 as a source of Iraq being bombed and people running away in fear since you love referencing it anyway? Not aimed at any particular people.) And clips of leaving weapons fields unguarded? Wait a minute, suddenly all of media can have access to these places and film all of this around military installations? And the lack of it indicates the media is deceiving everyone?

how do we KNOW if WE are REALY the "good guys"???

Hey, if you have any doubts, feel free to move to another country where you think it has a possibility of being "the real good guys." I bet France is accepting anti-Bush people.

One thing this election has proven is that there is a little over half of the American public that is influenced by superstition and belief rather than logic and reason. This is why we have a workforce that is technically and scientifically deficient and why high school kids in the U.S. place below the rest of the Western (and much of the Eastern) world in Science. The general ignorance of the American populace will lead to its downfall if not checked. The European Union will surpass us as the world leader, as may Japan and even China.

So voting for Bush is out of arrogance and ignorance? That solely depends on what beliefs you have and your stance on various issues (not to mention what angle the media you are exposed to).

You guys are making far too big of a deal out of this. You'll find any reason to bash the man. If Clinton did it, nobody would say a word.

Nobody would say I word that they agree with you on that statement.

Do you think bush CAN unite the nation at all?

Pres. Bush attempting to unite the nation can only be achieved by him AND everyone else. He can't unite the nation if you guys don't want to be united. It can't be accomplished by only Pres. Bush.

You know, I am tired of this. It's over.

Yes. I'm tired of all this liberal ranting and "oh I agree, nice way of mixing 'facts' with humor; oh great job you!; I couldn't agree more! People are so stupid for not agreeing with my belief system!"

Goodbye.

p.s. Kudos to Hiroki for managing to stay in this topic (either presently or used to). I salute you.

Morally, the act is not at issue. He was just having some fun with friends and coworkers, and not 'aiming' it at anyone - which would be either a very, very slightly immoral or not at all.


You'd think a guy who has the power to nuke a planet and is responsible for the "war on terror" and the "liberation of Iraq" would take his job more seriusly...

..rather than do obscene hand gestures at the camera!

...and everyone laughs with him? Those white house jobs must not keep them very busy...

Originally posted by MennoniteHobbit

Hey, if you have any doubts, feel free to move to another country where you think it has a possibility of being "the real good guys." I bet France is accepting anti-Bush people.

I'm sick of the France bashing. Sorry for the flaming, but how republicans and warmongers bashed France for being against the war just shows their level of intelligence.

originally posted by menonitehobbit

I question the reliability of that source; it's very easy to video edit anyway.

do a search and see all the different SIZES of it!

going by THAT logic, ANYTHING could be fake! How do you know it realy WAS Bin Laden who masterminded 9-11? How do you know the Bin Laden tapes were real?

Hey, if you have any doubts, feel free to move to another country where you think it has a possibility of being "the real good guys." I bet France is accepting anti-Bush people.

Have YOU been to france and asked them what they thought about bu$h?

Originally posted by kipperthefrog
You'd think a guy who has the power to nuke a planet and is responsible for the "war on terror" and the "liberation of Iraq" would take his job more seriusly... Actually, he does not have the sole power to do so. Other people have to agree with his decision. He can't just push a button and nuke whomever he wants to. I wish you'd stop saying that.

..rather than do obscene hand gestures at the camera!

...and everyone laughs with him? Those white house jobs must not keep them very busy... My previous post answers the top.

Everyone laughing with him? Who knows? They might have even thought it was funny. Do you know they had better things to do? Might they be able to laugh while they're doing their jobs? I'll leave this one to you.

EDIT: Video can be resized so easily it's rediculous to say that proves its validity. Personally, I think it is real, but I don't know for sure.

One more thing:

right before election day, bin laden sent another tape! "don't vote for bu$h" was the message! Reverse psicoligy for the public! nobody will do what the enemy wants! people will say "bin laden dosnt want us to vote for bu$h so by golly IM VOTING FOR BU$H!"

How do we know ANYTHING is on TV is real news?

for all we know, Bin Laden could have been a patsy like Lee Harvey Olswald was in the Kenedy Episode!

Man, if you go away for a few hours you get left behind. :p

Spider, yeah, Clinton should have been sacked...but he wasn't.

And Skinwalker, since it has increased your regard for him, I suppose you realize that everybody is putting too much into that? If you want reasons to hate Bush, then hate him for some of the stuff he has ****ed up in his first term, but not over something so trivial and silly. That is my point.

I am not bias. As a person, I like Kerry. I felt sorry for him when he lost, because I think he really did care for the American people, and you could tell that in his speech. I just don't think he would have been a good president for America. He changed his stances too often, and you didn't really know what you where getting.

Kipperthefrog...calm down man, geez...really. :p

The funny thing is, none of you have noticed that that is not a clip of him as president. He was governor of Texas at the time. It doesn't add to the debate, except to show just how anxious some liberals are to hypocritically bash someone for being human.

It reminds me of what some over anxious conservatives tried to do with the clip of Edwards adjusting his hair. It was foolish to even comment on it.

The point is that everyone is allowed a private moment. He obviously was in the presence of familiar persons such as aids or even possibly a film crew that he was on personal terms with.

Based on some of the arguments presented here, it would lead one to believe that he is not even allowed to raise his voice as a parent or have an argument with his wife over something trivial.

He's human. Just like all of us.

A leader is a member of society that is chosen by fellow members of that society. He's not a conquorer or someone ordained by God. He is a human being. And I'm glad he sees it that way as well.

Besides, I thought this was a debate about Kerry's concession speech.

Originally posted by ronbrothers
The funny thing is, none of you have noticed that that is not a clip of him as president. He was governor of Texas at the time. It doesn't add to the debate, except to show just how anxious some liberals are to hypocritically bash someone for being human.

It reminds me of what some over anxious conservatives tried to do with the clip of Edwards adjusting his hair. It was foolish to even comment on it.

The point is that everyone is allowed a private moment. He obviously was in the presence of familiar persons such as aids or even possibly a film crew that he was on personal terms with.

Based on some of the arguments presented here, it would lead one to believe that he is not even allowed to raise his voice as a parent or have an argument with his wife over something trivial.

He's human. Just like all of us.

A leader is a member of society that is chosen by fellow members of that society. He's not a conquorer or someone ordained by God. He is a human being. And I'm glad he sees it that way as well. That's interesting. I didn't know that.

Originally posted by MennoniteHobbit
... I bet France is accepting anti-Bush people.

A statement indicative of the true ignorance of a little over half of the United States. It suggests that France, alone, opposed the Iraqi invasion in the U.N. It also suggests that there is something inherently wrong with France. The same ignorance gave rise to the "freedom fries" name change. "Ignorant" because France has always thought American "french" fries was an insult to good food to begin with. If you've ever eaten European potato varients, you'd understand.

I stand by my statement. A little over half of the United States populace has proven itself to be ignorant and uneducated. Not just through the 2004 election, but collectively over the course of this new millenium.

Originally posted by Hiroki
And Skinwalker, since it has increased your regard for him, I suppose you realize that everybody is putting too much into that?

Agreed. I think people make too much of it. It's clear he was horsing around. And, if as Ronbrothers points out, it was prior to his Presidency, then it's even less of an issue.

Just out of curiosity, how can you tell?

Originally posted by SkinWalker
Just out of curiosity, how can you tell?

I've seen quite a few photos of him prior to his first term as president including some made when his father was running. It's only opinion, but it looks to be either earlier in his term as governor or when he was running for that office. Look at his hair and eyebrows. There appears to be less age in his face when he smiles.

Originally posted by Hiroki
Just because he has "more power" doesn't mean he has to be perfect. actually it pretty much does. Well not perfect, but damn near perfect, he holds the lives of millions of people in his hand. His actions could effect everyone and everything. He has to be more responsible and intelligent than the average joe, that's why we elect the people as our ****ing leader, because they're more responsible and intelligent and capable of holding the lives of others in their hand.

Originally posted by InsaneSith
actually it pretty much does. Well not perfect, but damn near perfect, he holds the lives of millions of people in his hand. His actions could effect everyone and everything. He has to be more responsible and intelligent than the average joe, that's why we elect the people as our ****ing leader, because they're more responsible and intelligent and capable of holding the lives of others in their hand.

I really don't think that with in your heart of hearts you really believe what you were saying. The idea that a human being is expected to be "perfect" or "damn near perfect" doesn't reflect real life. If this conversation did not involve politics, the idea that a human being is expected to be such in anything is ridiculous.

To use an old saying, the only person that was perfect was Jesus Christ, and even then not everyone liked him.

BTW, I like your Episode III signature banner.

I really don't think that with in your heart of hearts you really believe what you were saying. The idea that a human being is expected to be "perfect" or "damn near perfect" doesn't reflect real life. If this conversation did not involve politics, the idea that a human being is expected to be such in anything is ridiculous.Sorry, but that's rubbish. We elect people to office on the basis of their skills in different political areas. Before electing someone to the most demanding, most powerful office in the land one must evaluate their intelligence, oration, strategic ability, economic savvy,... And one must select the most perfect man for the job.

It is apparent however that the people you're trying to defend in some way, elected Bush on the basis that he was like their goofy uncle Billy-Bob. So at least they knew what they were getting.

Knew what they were getting? Yeah, they knew what they were getting. A man that has assisted the US economy into the toilet and started a completely pointless war in Iraq.

The funny thing is, none of you have noticed that that is not a clip of him as president.FYI the fact that he was governer at the time was on the news page I downloaded the .mov from. Don't assume. Assume makes an ass of "u" and me.

Originally posted by Spider AL
Sorry, but that's rubbish. We elect people to office on the basis of their skills in different political areas. Before electing someone to the most demanding, most powerful office in the land one must evaluate their intelligence, oration, strategic ability, economic savvy,... And one must select the most perfect man for the job.

You are right except for the use of most perfect. We elect the candidate that exhibits the highest skills in the ares that you mentioned. Perhaps the better of the candidates is the best way to articulate what you are trying to say. Perfect is impossible.

Originally posted by Spider AL
It is apparent however that the people you're trying to defend in some way, elected Bush on the basis that he was like their goofy uncle Billy-Bob. So at least they knew what they were getting.

That statement is typical of what is wrong with the political debate lately. It succeeds in assaulting the voter as well as the candidate. I don't want to resurrect an old liberal term, but it is hate-filled and mean spirited. It has nothing to do with political views.

Originally posted by ET Warrior
So you wouldn't find it hypocritical for your pastor to flip off his neighbor and then tell YOU to love your neighbor?


Yours and my definition of hypocracy must be out of synch.
we are indeed completely out of sync. you see, according to the bible, God looks at a man's heart (or the spirit man), and not the flesh. whenever you flip the bird at someone, you are acting out of your flesh. i act out of my flesh everyday, and so does my pastor. why?? because we are human. we are fallible.

also don't forget that God doesn't judge every sin by its "severity". only men do that. with God, sin is sin, whether it be flipping the bird or murder. and also realize that God's grace is sufficient for everything. it does not mean that you won't take the results of your actions. it only means that God forgives you.

if my pastor did actually flip the bird, more than likely, it would severely discredit his integrity as a man after God. in my eyes, it would only prove that he is indeed a fallible man, just as we all are.

note: all of my views are founded firmly in the Bible. don't believe me, then check it for yourself.

to answer the thing on bush: grow up. so he flipped someone off. big deal. next thing ya know, y'all will be dissing him for saying that he hates liberals.

Originally posted by stingerhs
we are indeed completely out of sync. you see, according to the bible, God looks at a man's heart (or the spirit man), and not the flesh. whenever you flip the bird at someone, you are acting out of your flesh. i act out of my flesh everyday, and so does my pastor. why?? because we are human. we are fallible.

also don't forget that God doesn't judge every sin by its "severity". only men do that. with God, sin is sin, whether it be flipping the bird or murder. and also realize that God's grace is sufficient for everything. it does not mean that you won't take the results of your actions. it only means that God forgives you.

if my pastor did actually flip the bird, more than likely, it would severely discredit his integrity as a man after God. in my eyes, it would only prove that he is indeed a fallible man, just as we all are.

note: all of my views are founded firmly in the Bible. don't believe me, then check it for yourself.

to answer the thing on bush: grow up. so he flipped someone off. big deal. next thing ya know, y'all will be dissing him for saying that he hates liberals.

Very well said, stingerhs.

You are right except for the use of most perfect. We elect the candidate that exhibits the highest skills in the ares that you mentioned. Perhaps the better of the candidates is the best way to articulate what you are trying to say. Perfect is impossible.Don't try and argue semantics with me, cully. The term "perfect" can be qualified, it is not an absolute in the context you're referring to. Your reasoning is flawed.

And since that's the only argument you can come up with, I declare the case that rationally, Kerry superceded Bush in desirability for the post of Command-in-Chief, to be proven.

That statement is typical of what is wrong with the political debate lately. It succeeds in assaulting the voter as well as the candidate. I don't want to resurrect an old liberal term, but it is hate-filled and mean spirited. It has nothing to do with political views.I'm no liberal, so I'm quite open about the fact that I literally hate the neo-conservative ideal, and consider it to be nazism at its most insidious. I hate ignorance, and I hate the effect ignorance has on our world.

I will quite openly insult any voter who has all the evidence in the world in front of them, but ignores it. It is less than they deserve. I decry that portion of the electorate that chose Bush over Kerry, may their ears be infested with leeches.

if my pastor did actually flip the bird, more than likely, it would severely discredit his integrity as a man after God.Exactly. Glad you agree with us.

Since Bush is still our president, San Diego is as good as bombed, at least thats what my friends told me. America is going to be screwed up after the next election, hopefully we will have a president that can fix Bushes mess.

Well, if it takes 8 years for people to see this man has screwed up America, so be it...

Originally posted by stingerhs
we are indeed completely out of sync. you see, according to the bible, God looks at a man's heart (or the spirit man), and not the flesh. whenever you flip the bird at someone, you are acting out of your flesh. i act out of my flesh everyday, and so does my pastor. why?? because we are human. we are fallible.

also don't forget that God doesn't judge every sin by its "severity". only men do that. with God, sin is sin, whether it be flipping the bird or murder. and also realize that God's grace is sufficient for everything. it does not mean that you won't take the results of your actions. it only means that God forgives you.

if my pastor did actually flip the bird, more than likely, it would severely discredit his integrity as a man after God. in my eyes, it would only prove that he is indeed a fallible man, just as we all are.

note: all of my views are founded firmly in the Bible. don't believe me, then check it for yourself.

to answer the thing on bush: grow up. so he flipped someone off. big deal. next thing ya know, y'all will be dissing him for saying that he hates liberals.

Your views are founded firmly in the Bible. My views are firmly rooted in logical thinking. This is politics; not governed by God or the Bible, but man. Not everyone believes in a being up in the sky watching the struggles of Kerry and the stupid mistakes of Bush.

Luckily I don't live in America, because if Bush won, I would move out of the country. It'll only be a while before Bush's mistakes balloons up to an unimaginable extent.

Originally posted by stingerhs

we are indeed completely out of sync. you see, according to the bible, God looks at a man's heart (or the spirit man), and not the flesh. whenever you flip the bird at someone, you are acting out of your flesh. i act out of my flesh everyday, and so does my pastor. why?? because we are human. we are fallible.

also don't forget that God doesn't judge every sin by its "severity". only men do that. with God, sin is sin, whether it be flipping the bird or murder. and also realize that God's grace is sufficient for everything. it does not mean that you won't take the results of your actions. it only means that God forgives you.

if my pastor did actually flip the bird, more than likely, it would severely discredit his integrity as a man after God. in my eyes, it would only prove that he is indeed a fallible man, just as we all are.

note: all of my views are founded firmly in the Bible. don't believe me, then check it for yourself.

to answer the thing on bush: grow up. so he flipped someone off. big deal. next thing ya know, y'all will be dissing him for saying that he hates libe
rals.

We are not talking about his religios stance! We are talking about his mental capability of running a country! If he plays around like that on the JOB, (wrether he was president then or not)THAT shows its all FUN AND GAMES to HIM!

Wrether he's governer, or prisident, or leading "the war on terror", Its all play time! Its all HOLLYWOOD! LIGHTS! CAMERA! ACTION!

I never thought i'd defend france... but i probably should point out that they DO have troops in afganistan at the moment (anyone remember that place?)

It seems a little hard to rag on bush for acting like a college freshman, he has built his entire appeal on acting like a college freshman.... i can only assume people like it as they keep voting for him...

Simple people like simple messages and simple choices...


-----------------


The second IQ site references the first, and although the first is a hoax and the scores are too spread out... the order is near enough correct.
IQ also seems quite linked with income... which oddly means that the poorest people are the ones voting republican. In most countries it is the rich who vote right wing and the poor who vote left wing (not that there is any left wing in US politics). This does mean that the richest and poorest are voting the same way thogh... odd...

Kipper, he was not on the job man, he was joking around with friends and family. He may have been preparing to go out there, but he probably was kidding around to remove the tension. Everybody experts politicians to be some sort of God-person who do not make mistakes, or ever let themselves relax. And that is wrong.

And for all you know, that could be a common thing for presidents, governors, and senators. You just haven't caught them on camera yet. ;)

Honestly, I wish you guys would stop looking for any little excuse to bash Bush with. You guys have never given him a chance since the day he was first elected, because you thought he cheated to win the election. It was Al Gore who called recount after recount, and drew the election out for months, wasting everybody's time.

Would you really want a man who went crazy, and became an obese caveman, as your president? :p

Originally posted by Hiroki


Would you really want a man who went crazy, and became an obese caveman, as your president? :p

Excellent point. He cracked because he lost the election. Better that way than crack as president. I shudder to think what he would have done if he had to endure the constant mindless bashing the Bush has had to endure along with the greatest crisis this country has had to experience since Pearl harbor.

Everybody experts politicians to be some sort of God-person who do not make mistakes, or ever let themselves relax. And that is wrong.I'm amazed, truly I am. To be governor and still go around flipping off a camera as if you're in college, is juvenile. Politicians should not be juvenile. REALLY powerful politicians MUST not be juvenile. You seem to like the fact that your president is a twit. Why? There is no logical reason. Do you think YOU would make a good president? Maybe you do. Maybe that's why you elected Bush, someone who wouldn't be out of place sitting in a flea-infested bar, were it not for the fact that he's filthy-rich with good old hereditary wealth...

And for all you know, that could be a common thing for presidents, governors, and senators.You know, considering the American electorate, you're probably right about that.

Honestly, I wish you guys would stop looking for any little excuse to bash Bush with. You guys have never given him a chance since the day he was first elected, because you thought he cheated to win the election.A chance? A chance? He had his chances. He had the chance to decide not to invade Iraq. He had the chance to save thousands of innocent lives. He had the chance to focus more on the American economy than on completing his daddy's work and grabbing oil-reserves.

Any little excuse... oh my God. Save us.

Would you really want a man who went crazy, and became an obese caveman, as your president? How derogatory, hypocrisy much?

Well who knows, at least he'd be a halfway intelligent obese caveman, who was once sane.

along with the greatest crisis this country has had to experience since Pearl harbor....

You just sit around watching Fox all day, don't you. :¬: Crisis Schmisis. Bush has made any crisis that existed worse, by feeding terrorist recruitment.

Originally posted by kipperthefrog
do a search and see all the different SIZES of it!

going by THAT logic, ANYTHING could be fake! How do you know it realy WAS Bin Laden who masterminded 9-11? How do you know the Bin Laden tapes were real?



Have YOU been to france and asked them what they thought about bu$h?

Yeah, anything could be fake, but with evidence of things being credible can prove or disprove the credibility of a tape. Different sizes? Going by THAT logic, anything that can be enlarged is real! Photo and video editing is easy for people who have a lot of free time and software. I don't really care if the clip is real or not... I'm just pointing out that it could be fake. If it's fake, great, not surprising, if it's real, good for all of you.

And I don't have to ask France for a direct opinion. But look around in the media from the past couple of years and see how people react to Pres. Bush. On TV once (recently) a Parisian, quoted directly from an email or message, said that people were stupid for voting for Bush, and they should be welcomed into France well. Of course I admit that what one person says does not account for the whole country, though her account isn't the only describing the mainstream French feeling...

I stand by my statement. A little over half of the United States populace has proven itself to be ignorant and uneducated.

Oh, so they have the same morals and beliefs as Pres. Bush does, they voted for him, and the fact that their views conflict with yours, means that they are ignorant and uneducated? On a general basis... Oh and also, people vote for who they have more in common belief-wise (usually). So, if the "dumb" people want to vote for Bush, that means they believe in what Bush believes in. That doesn't mean Bush is automatically a stupid candidate according to your logic.

Since Bush is still our president, San Diego is as good as bombed, at least thats what my friends told me. America is going to be screwed up after the next election, hopefully we will have a president that can fix Bushes mess.

San Diego eh? Random city generator? What do they think of next

On the topic of Kerry's concession, great. John Edwards was still in campaign mode however...

Originally posted by Spider AL

Crisis Schmisis.

That says it all right there.

That says it all right there.Absolutely it says it all. It says it all, including but not limited to things like "You're a neoconservative puppet", and "Don't believe the nonsense that's peddled about the mythic global terror network, as it was all a scam invented by CIA analysts decades ago, (who now specifically and incontrivertably admit the fact in interviews broadcast on networks as reputable as the BBC,) and was subsequently adopted by fascist Straussian neoconservatives to aid their population-fooling agenda..."

Nobody should watch Fox news. It will rot whatever quantity of brain they might possess.

Oh, so they have the same morals and beliefs as Pres. Bush does, they voted for him, and the fact that their views conflict with yours, means that they are ignorant and uneducated?Yes.

Voting for Bush reveals ignorance of both the issues, and ignorance of the simple logic of electing someone who may be able to do the job well. Specifically, not someone you think is exactly like your good-ol-boy brother Todd, and CERTAINLY not someone who has proven himself to be BAD AT HIS JOB.

Thank you spider al for coming to my defense!:urpdude:

Kipper, he was not on the job man, he was joking around with friends and family. He may have been preparing to go out there, but he probably was kidding around to remove the tension. Everybody experts politicians to be some sort of God-person who do not make mistakes, or ever let themselves relax. And that is wrong.

I have a lot of tension, I am as HUMAN as the rest of us! ...and still I never had to flip anybody off for ANYTHING!!!!


[QUOTE] Menonite Hobbit!

Photo and video editing is easy for people who have a lot of free time and software.[QUOTE]

Study the video and see if you can find ANY proof that it IS fake! If YOU waer faking that video how would YOU have done it? considering the number of frames I would have to do, Id be better off finding someone who LOOKS like him!

Im IN video editing! Its NOT easy! its not like photo editing! lightsaber and speacial effects are easy to do, but PEOPLES movements are HARD to manipulate! Thats why we STILL NEED ACTORS! You just WANT the video to be fake becuase you don't want to beleive anything bad about BU$H!

Everyone! Look at this and see if you can find ANYTHING that looks fake!

Originally posted by Spider AL
Yes.

Voting for Bush reveals ignorance of both the issues, and ignorance of the simple logic of electing someone who may be able to do the job well. Specifically, not someone you think is exactly like your good-ol-boy brother Todd, and CERTAINLY not someone who has proven himself to be BAD AT HIS JOB.

For sure.

Bush has proven himself to be one who is unable to face the public. Halfway through the war in Iraq, he couldn't find WMDs. What did he do? Oh yes, fake out the public by saying Saddam Hussein was linked to Al-Qaeda. It is such an obvious lie; I wonder why some don't see it. He came into Iraq; one of the reasons being the rich reserves of black gold it contains. Oh my, I wonder what he's going to do with it. Leave it alone, perhaps? No, wrong. He's going to do something, maybe sell it and earn a hefty profit? Ah, there's the answer. Siphoning another country's natural reserves without any permission, for HIMSELF.

Originally posted by Druid Bremen
Siphoning another country's natural reserves without any permission, for HIMSELF.

OF COURSE HE HAS PERMISSION!! The US is going to insert a puppet regime, which is basically gonna sign EVERYTHING over to Bu$h Co.

Originally posted by kipperthefrog
You just WANT the video to be fake becuase you don't want to beleive anything bad about BU$H! The video is real, but it's hardly anything bad for Bush, it hardly shows he's incapable of being president. Please stop bogging down the credible stuff with this overblown bull****. The guy was joking around on an offair camera, joking around with the news station crew. It is news station procedure to leave tape rolling when off air incase something occurs that they have to report on before they can get back into air.

He flipped the bird, big f**king deal.

There are more credible reasons to prove why Bush should not be president.

Originally posted by ronbrothers
I really don't think that with in your heart of hearts you really believe what you were saying. I do believe that. A responsible leader would milk all their resources to make sure their decisions are 98% complete and accurate. To make sure that if fatalities or incidents occur they did all they could to make sure it was a good cause, and that it doesn't happen on a grand scale. To hold an entire nation, and practically 3/4 of the world in your hand, you have to be damn responsilbe and very educated. You have to be SURE mentally, physically, and realistically. Bush is a bumbling idiot that acting prematurely on bad information. A responsible leader would milk all the resources he/she had to make sure this information was sound. A leader has to be held to higher standards than the average person, because the average person is not qualified for this kind of job, that's why we have the f**king elections and candidate consideration processes in the first place.

He flipped the bird, big f**king deal. I'm confused at your attitude. In the offices I've worked in, flipping off your computer if it crashes would be considered at the very least, unprofessional. How much more important was Bush's office at the time?

Maybe we have a more subtle attitude to work-related rebellion in the UK. Putting someone's staplers into jelly is about our limit.

it hardly shows he's incapable of being president.It's merely instructive as to his maturity and sense of propriety. And general awareness, I doubt he'd have done it if he'd realised the camera was running.

Therefore it's thoroughly relevant.

Please stop bogging down the credible stuff with this overblown bull****.Now, if you don't like the fact that I and others don't like Bush flipping off a camera, fine. But frankly I'll carry on disliking it. And vocally, too. No offence. ;) He's a twit. The video reinforces it.

A leader has to be held to higher standards than the average person, because the average person is not qualified for this kind of job, that's why we have the f**king elections and candidate consideration processes in the first place.Well said.

Originally posted by Spider AL
I'm confused at your attitude. In the offices I've worked in, flipping off your computer if it crashes would be considered at the very least, unprofessional. How much more important was Bush's office at the time?

Maybe we have a more subtle attitude to work-related rebellion in the UK. Putting someone's staplers into jelly is about our limit.

It's merely instructive as to his maturity and sense of propriety. And general awareness, I doubt he'd have done it if he'd realised the camera was running.

Therefore it's thoroughly relevant.

Now, if you don't like the fact that I and others don't like Bush flipping off a camera, fine. But frankly I'll carry on disliking it. And vocally, too. No offence. ;) He's a twit. The video reinforces it.

I agree, he's a twit, and he should know better than to flip off a camera. but he was horsing around, I'm not going to hold that against him. What he did was far from flipping off a computer in an office. He was jesting and joking with the crew of the station.
true it's not very professional, but ... I dunno. I just don't think it's that big of a deal, I personally think there are more important and more damaging reasons of why he shouldn't be president that should and need to be vocalized.

I personally have grown past this middle finger taboo BS, it's a finger, get over it. Then again I don't have a problem with a lot of things, but I'm open minded. My seeing passed taboo must be some sort of curse ;)

I personally think there are more important and more damaging reasons of why he shouldn't be president that should and need to be vocalized.Of course there are, the invasion of Iraq to name one. But that doesn't mean that his flipping the camera off isn't indicative of his general attitude. It's telling.

I personally have grown past this middle finger taboo BS, it's a finger, get over it.I flip people off all the time. Not the issue however, professionalism is. Professionalism, especially in politics is characterised by seriousness, commitment, dignity, all these things. Biggest job = requires most professionalism.

I get what you're saying. I guess we just feel think about it's seriousness on different levels.

Originally posted by Spider AL


I flip people off all the time. Not the issue however, professionalism is. Professionalism, especially in politics is characterised by seriousness, commitment, dignity, all these things. Biggest job = requires most professionalism.

I don't think you are being intellectually honest even with yourself. Think about it. You seem to be capable to carry on a debate, yet unable to grasp what is relevant and irrelevant about the issue. I agree completely that if you want to bash someone, do it with issues of substance. You are defeating your argument to latch onto something that is so minimal.

You are defeating your argument to latch onto something that is so minimal.You seem to think that EVERYTHING Bush does wrong is in some way trivial, so you'll forgive me if I point out your lack of perspective on the issue. You seem to love Bush because he's like you, and no doubt you voted for him (if you did in fact vote) for the same reason.

You should have voted for the man who could have done the best, most professional job of being President. That wasn't Bush. Full stop.

No, it wasn't Bush, but it wasn't Kerry either. And out of the two, I went with Bush. Frankly, I can't wait for McCain to get in office. ;) He would be a far more competent president.

No, it wasn't Bush, but it wasn't Kerry either. And out of the two, I went with Bush. :¬: Other than what Fox news tells you, do you have any reason at all to elect an incompetent evangelist warmonger, over an obviously more intelligent, experienced and moderate politician?

What's the worst that can happen with Bush? Oooohohohoh. The sky's truly the limit. He could (and unless he changes policy massively, and changes his own personality, WILL) further ruin your economy, take even more young lives with his insane neoconservative military actions and regress your nation's policy away from the light of reason, back towards the darkness of religious intolerance and bigotry. It's not conservatism. That's about keeping the good things that we have gained. What Bush is about, is duping the American public, increasing the proliferation of dogma, and moving society BACKWARDS in the process. They're calling it "neoconservatism" in the press these days. That's an insult to myself and all conservatives. It's not conservatism, let's call it what it is: fascism.

What's the worst that could happen with Kerry? "He might be as bad as Bush?" Is that it? Well therefore, logically one had to elect Kerry.

Logic has little welcome among a nation of creationists though eh. ;)

I heard he's going to do somthing with social security! My Dad says its going to run in the stock market or somthing! MOST of us won't be able to retire! that will be money out of old people's pockets so they won't have to pay benefits to us!

Has anyone else any INFO on this?