Calm down for christ's sake.
Whoa, fanboys ahoy. First of all, I couldn't really decide whether I liked Shaw or Hayden better (I voted Shaw barely only due to the fact I first saw the movie with him in it sense I only have the special edition VHS), but now I'm starting to think Hayden, because as soon as I read that guy's post, it made me remember that when I saw Return of the Jedi (don't laugh- but it was not until last April, and I was, and still am, exactly 10 years older than that kid), I actually asked my brother who he was. He just doesn't look similar enough to Hayden, at least without all the burn marks, that I could actually tell. Also keep in mind this was after seeing all the movies (other than III, as it was not out at the time) in order from I to VI. So I think having Hayden play him really helps, and gives it a better link to the prequel trilogy.
Hmm, when I was 6 years old seeing ROTJ I had no problem making the connection that the old guy who was the ghost at the end was Luke's father,Anakin Skywalker. It was obviously the same guy who I'd just seen moments earlier under the mask that Luke took off, only without the scars and his hair was back (surely in "jedi heaven" they fix you up, right? but they don't turn you into a kid again!). No problem...
I even sent away for the bonus action figure of him!
The "oh the kids won't get it" assumes they watched Episodes II and III first, THEN Return of the Jedi. But even then it also assumes they don't understand the concept of aging...
"But why was he old? He should have been young! Even though his kids are all grown up, people don't get old!!!" etc.
Give the kids a little credit. ;) Sure, not every kid understands everything, but this seems like a poor excuse to edit the film. I think he probably was just like:
"well, since I'm tinkering with the movies anyway since I'm George Lucas, what the hell... and now that people are going to associate Hayden with Anakin forever I will give into his googely eyed demands to let him make a "cameo" in Jedi"
Not "Oh no! My definitive vision has been compromised because some little tykes in 2004 DO NOT UNDERSTAND! I must immediately pay somebody to paste in Hayden's face. Ah, thankfully I have a clip of him leering like a madman, perfect! Cut, paste, done!"
Anakin in that scene is thinking "Heh, heh, yeah my boy's a playah just like his old man! I know that's your sister, but she's hot, go for it son!"
Luke, who was formerly smiling at the thought of his father's redemption is momentarily creeped out for a second. He almost wets his Jedi uniform when Leia touches him to go back to the fire. Luke lets himself be taken away from the scary man... Geez dad was a perv!
Anyway, Lucas's kids are old enough to be able to figure that stuff out too. Did a test audience of little brats go "Where's Jar Jar mommy??" leading him to insert the Naboo "wesa free!" clip? Who knows... but I don't see it as a plot point necessity.
Sure you could say after ROTS we basically had no choice but to see that less time had passed between trilogies than we original thought back in the day. But it's really a bigger problem than just Anakin, if we admit that. All the surviving characters look older than they "should be" and events seem like they took place a longer time ago than they did (how could Motti have forgotten the Jedi already? etc). If we can overlook those "inconsistencies" then we can overlook Anakin. But at least if he was going to try to patch the age shift problem, he should have made Anakin look like he ought to have looked under the armor at that time... as a man in his 40's, not a spry 21 year old.
Personally I think all the arguments for the change are BS anyway, as this wasn't really an inconsistency before.
The strongest they can really come up with is "Lucas can do whatever he wants, so I can live with it, since I have no control over it, so stop whining, it's only a few seconds of the entire movie."
Calling somebody a nerd for complaining about this is just as silly, because only a "nerd" would feel the need to defend the change, anyway. Anybody else (non-fans) just wouldn't care one way or the other, IMHO.
I never said he didn't know Shaw was supposed to be Anakin, or that it was a good excuse to alter the film. I'm saying he (my son) identifies the character of Anakin as being played by Hayden. That's all. Jeez.
Perhaps you should re-read CapN's post, Kurgan.
:Edit: Beaten by the CapN.
Maybe he also identifies the character of Obi-Wan Kenobi as being played by Ewan McGregor. Maybe he identifies with Clive Revil as playing the Emperor...
Maybe he identifies with Yoda and Jabba being puppets or one of the different voices of Boba Fett... All he has is an opinion just like everyone else, wonderful, thanks for sharing then! ;)
Someone sounds like they want a debate... ;)
Someone sounds like they want a debate... ;)
No Sith, you will find it is you who want to debate, about a great many things!
All he has is an opinion just like everyone else, wonderful, thanks for sharing then! ;)
Well yeah. I thought that's what the poll was for. To see what the general opinion was, and maybe discuss it. Not to justify ones reasoning, or prove another persons opinion to be not a good enough reason for the change or whatever. If I assumed incorrectly, then accept my apologies, please.
Don't worry. I've commented so much on the subject I don't even remember what I've said anymore and to whom or why. I've basically thrown out all my good ideas, the rest is rambling. Please ignore. ;)
And please accept my apologies for any misunderstanding or percieved insult.
Okay, sorry for the lateness of this reply, but first of all, Lucas has claimed that Anakin's original form was preserved by Yoda and Obi-Wan, and they were the ones who created the ghost. If Darth Vader learned that power, don't you think he would've at least mentioned it? He would probably think he was invulnerable and his reign would last forever! Also, about Jar Jar Binks, I don't know what the kiddies think, but Lucas says he died in the explosion of Alderaan. That gungan saying "wesa free" wasn't him.
Also, about Jar Jar Binks, I don't know what the kiddies think, but Lucas says he died in the explosion of Alderaan. That gungan saying "wesa free" wasn't him.
So there is a God after all. :D
Okay, sorry for the lateness of this reply, but first of all, Lucas has claimed that Anakin's original form was preserved by Yoda and Obi-Wan, and they were the ones who created the ghost. If Darth Vader learned that power, don't you think he would've at least mentioned it? He would probably think he was invulnerable and his reign would last forever! Also, about Jar Jar Binks, I don't know what the kiddies think, but Lucas says he died in the explosion of Alderaan. That gungan saying "wesa free" wasn't him.
Where did you get all these startling relevations? I'd like to see the source.
;)
Ssshhh, Kurgan, don't question it. Jar Jar get's blown to hell! :D
Don't ruin the moment. :p
Jar Jar would have been older than Obi-wan at the end of Return of the Jedi.
Did the gungan saying "weesa free" sound like an elderly person?
I voted for Hayden because seeing him at the end really helped me connect the PT with the OT and I think it's only fitting that Anakin should be shown before he turned to the dark side.
Shaw, because the change makes little sense and Hayden's face does not belong in the OT. I would accept (as a compromise) Kurgan's "fade-to-youth" idea.
I'd say Hayden. Maybe because I don't recall what Shaw looks like. If somebody could put up a pic of him......
Hayden is the obvious choice.
I know when he died he wasn't Vader, he was Anakin and he didn't look young, but he didn't look old and fat either.
Shaw, having Hayden there is just another one of the totally unnecessary additions that George put into the films. Seeing Yoda and Obi-Wan, next to a young Anakin just doesn't mesh well with the scene at all.
As for having our cake and eating it too, one person (I can't remember where) suggested a compromise.
Show the three Force Ghosts (or Jedi Spirits, whatever you want to call 'em) as they are in ROTJ for the normal duration, and then have them slowly fade into "younger" versions of themselves. Shaw becomes Christiansen, Guiness becomes McGregor and finally ol' Yoda puppet becomes CG Yoda in his prime like we've never seen before... at a spry 100 years of age, or something. ;)
This could show the characters as they were when they REALLY died, all as old men, and their "rejuvination" in the Force to show that age no longer has any meaning for them. Luke smiles, rest of movie continues as before.
I like that idea. Ever though of suggesting it to George Lucas?