Originally posted by guybroom
Put it this way:

Jedi = Jews

Imperials = Nazis

How about that for simple?

And when did the Empire enslave the Wookies? Do u mean in KOTOR?

someone correct me if i'm wrong, but han rescued chewie from imperial enslavement, which is how the life debt incurred

That is true,Chewie was rescued by han in a prison camp.

I haven't read the old Han Solo books, but was Chewie an Imperial slave or just a slave of some pirates or something?

I always assumed that the Wookies were enslaved by the Empire, but that doesn't mean that other people didn't treat them as slaves, such as Chewbacca.

Just curious...

I believe I remember correctly when I say he was an Imperial slave. :)

Originally posted by Kurgan
I haven't read the old Han Solo books, but was Chewie an Imperial slave or just a slave of some pirates or something?

I always assumed that the Wookies were enslaved by the Empire, but that doesn't mean that other people didn't treat them as slaves, such as Chewbacca.

Just curious...

it is mentioned several times that chewie was rescued from imperial slavery in the EU books

Ep III spoiler warning...

i believe in Ep III you will see the wookiees being enslaved by the empire, including chewbacca.

how do you create that spoiler blankout thingy

Originally posted by Lieutenant_kettch
how do you create that spoiler blankout thingy

you can use the spoiler tag by typing [spoiler] then your spoiler here [~spoiler] (replace ~ with / for it too work)

Originally posted by Lieutenant_kettch
it is mentioned several times that chewie was rescued from imperial slavery in the EU books

Okay, since I haven't read those books (the only book I've read that mentioned it was the "Wookiee Storybook" that says "slave traders") I'll take your word for it that it was Imperials who enslaved Chewie. ; )

I think that the spoiler was right. I've heard that too. Also I mentioned KOTOR before and I'm not sure if this needs a spoiler tag or not but i'll do it anyway. The czeca corp enslave the wookies on kashak (or eden as they call it). Czerca isn't the empire but it does work for the empire

It might be like that in EP 3

Well i'd say yes. Because he killed the Emperor (although he resurrected again some time later) :deathii:

The emperor got reserected? is that the EU?

The Jedi represent the Force and the Sith the Dark Side of the Force. Bringing balance to the means that the Sith die but the Jedi stay. If I remember correctly, I guess Lucas says that in the audio commentaries of the RotJ.

Anyhow, don't find that strange that the most powerful Force-sensitive never had a student?!? Anakin was obi-Wan's padawan and then, as Darth Vader, he was Palpatine's pupil. Anakin was always the second even though he tried to lure luke to the Dark Side to help him destroy the Emperor and take his place.

Vader's plan was quite simple if you compare it to Sidious'; turn Luke to the Dark Side and betray his mentor. I wonder why Palpatine did not farsaw Vader's treachery. Was Vader enough powerful in the Dark Side to hide things to the Emperor?!? Vader did feel that Luke was in the shuttle and the Emperor did not.

Originally posted by Talor Star
Because surely with all the stuff spouted by qui gon in ep I about him being amazing and stuff and that he will being balance to the force, bet he didnt think he would do this by destroying practically the whole light side of the force?

so did ankin furfil (spelt so badly i think :( ) the prohpecy or not? was him turning always predicited or did it just not go well? Yes, he did! He killed the Emperor, the worsest man in the whole galaxy. And when he returned to the light, before he died, everything is alright!

Originally posted by guybroom
I think that the spoiler was right. I've heard that too. Also I mentioned KOTOR before and I'm not sure if this needs a spoiler tag or not but i'll do it anyway. The czeca corp enslave the wookies on kashak (or eden as they call it). Czerca isn't the empire but it does work for the empire

It might be like that in EP 3
That happened 4000 years before the rise of the Empire though.

Since then the wookiees obviously rose above their slave status sometime in those thousands of years (See Ep. I and I think II aswell) perating KotOR and the Galactic Civil War period.

Time of the Empire, they were back to being slave labour.

Did Anakin bring balance? Yes- through his death. He created an imbalance in the Force, throguh his slaughter of the Jedi. Only through his death, and the death of the Emperor, did he restore balance.

The Force was already in imballance even before Anakin was born if 1 Sith can hide from the Jedi right under their noses.

Anakin balanced it again by removing the Emperor from the equation.

The unfortunate side effect was that pretty much every Jedi was eradicated aswell in the process.

Originally posted by Jan Gaarni
The Force was already in imballance even before Anakin was born if 1 Sith can hide from the Jedi right under their noses.

Anakin balanced it again by removing the Emperor from the equation.

The unfortunate side effect was that pretty much every Jedi was eradicated aswell in the process. There are some stories in EU which tell us that the Emperor cloned his body several times after Ep. VI! I find that stupid. It makes Ep. VI senseless.

According to the EU line of thinking, "Palpatine" the entity is actually a malevolent evil "Sith Spirit" that floats around and possesses people.

And he's so powerful in the Dark Side that he "wears out" any body that he possesses in a very short time (not sure how short, but enough so that he needed a new body before ESB and he got a new one after ROTJ and already it was worn out by the time of "Dark Empire" in which this story takes place).

According to this theory the Dark Side causes "rapid aging" and wrecks havoc on bodies, which is why Palpatine looks so old and twisted. The clones need not be of his actual body (though they tend to be, since he happens to look the same in old age). He was finally killed and his spirit prevented from slipping into a new body (somehow, I don't remember exactly, some technobabble Force thing) by the end of Dark Empire II.

But with this theory in mind, "Palpatine" actually died a long time ago. We're just dealing with a nasty ghost instead!

It's an interesting theory, but it doesn't seem to bode well with the Prequels (which show him just as a really powerful Sith, with normal aging).

HOWEVER, the Episode III teaser trailer has introduced a few doubts in my mind and I'll have to see the movie to know if there are some new wrinkles introduced by Lucas (no pun intended!).

Your posts are always very long! But they are good. :cool:

Lead by example. :)

Which I am poor at right now. :D

Originally posted by Kurgan
According to the EU line of thinking, "Palpatine" the entity is actually a malevolent evil "Sith Spirit" that floats around and possesses people.

And he's so powerful in the Dark Side that he "wears out" any body that he possesses in a very short time (not sure how short, but enough so that he needed a new body before ESB and he got a new one after ROTJ and already it was worn out by the time of "Dark Empire" in which this story takes place).

According to this theory the Dark Side causes "rapid aging" and wrecks havoc on bodies, which is why Palpatine looks so old and twisted. The clones need not be of his actual body (though they tend to be, since he happens to look the same in old age). He was finally killed and his spirit prevented from slipping into a new body (somehow, I don't remember exactly, some technobabble Force thing) by the end of Dark Empire II.

But with this theory in mind, "Palpatine" actually died a long time ago. We're just dealing with a nasty ghost instead!

It's an interesting theory, but it doesn't seem to bode well with the Prequels (which show him just as a really powerful Sith, with normal aging).



Like you said, the prequals don't agree with this theory about palpy. Although, was he strong as strong in the force at the begining of ep 1. I know that he worked out just about everything that would happen until the last few minutes of ep 2, but how physicly powerful was he?

I Think it was really obvious that Anakin would go bad by the second movie. When he destroys the entire village of sand people out of spite and hatred.

I think it was obvious he would go bad, from before they saw TPM for anyone who has seen the OT.

i.e. anikin skywalker was always going to turn evil. but the question was when?

bringing balance to the force in the theory's of the jedi means to wipe out the darkside of the force. that being said. anakin did bring balance to the force when he killed the emporer.

Oh my god, this is the oldest thread any noob has ever revived ever.

Anakin brought balance to the force, in his own special drawn out, turn-to-evil-first way.

Anakin did bring balance to the Force. Anyone who has to ask needs to watch ROTJ again. Now.
And no, this is not the oldest revived thread. I hold that record from my first days here.

Technically in order to bring balance to the Force, both sides must be in equilibrium. The prophecy is in fact a contradiction, unless you destroy the Jedi and the Sith.

Technically in order to bring balance to the Force, both sides must be in equilibrium. The prophecy is in fact a contradiction, unless you destroy the Jedi and the Sith.
No, because the Dark Side is what brought the Force out of balance. It isn't the Light Side and Dark Side, it's The Force, and the Dark Side of the Force. If only the force exists than it is in balance.

I see, so you don't think there's a light side but there is a dark side? Well, some think there are no sides of the Force at all. Well, if there is no light side then there is no dark side, and therefore, you see Potentium.

Well I guess you can call it the light side, but it makes more sense when you just call the Jedi's way the Force because having only the Light Side/Force is being in balance, and saying light side sounds like it isnt balanced.

A cookie for DM. :)

The Force is in a natural state of balance when there is no Sith...

The Force is in Balance when the user surrenders himself to the Will of the Force.

the Will of the Force.Which is what exactly?

Technically Anakin did bring balance to the force when he destroyed palpatine but luke also technically did it to because he got vader to turn back and destroy palpatine. So yea, anakin did bring balance to the force but luke also helped to save the galaxy.

Luke was a catalyst to Anakin fullfilling his destiny, nothing more, nothing less.

Wow, we are SO pulling Godwin's Law.



Godwin's Law (also Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is an adage in Internet culture originated by Mike Godwin on Usenet in 1990 that states:

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.



XDD

Is the comparisons between Nazi Germany and the Empire really necessary?


___________________________________________________________

I truly believe that Anakin was the one to bring balance to the force; dissimilar, however, is the way that this was played out.

We all concieve that balance means "Between Light and Dark," or "Between Jedi and Sith." We have not stopped to consider that this could possibly mean...

"Amongst the Jedi."

How, you ask? Simple.

The Jedi were always selfless, always thinking of others.

Anakin, however, was a little different in the way that he had a wife, and he had two children. Granted, other Jedi had children; Ki-Adi-Mundi, because his world was underpopulated, had .. three, if I remember correctly.

But none of these romances/offspring brough about a major change within the Jedi. Anakin, through the birth of Luke and Leia, brought about a major change within the Jedi Order:

The ability to show passion and love, the heart of all life.

It is widely known that the New Jedi Order was able to have romance, have children, etc. etc. The Old Jedi were not able to do this, and I think that contributed to their downfall: they had nothing, really, to fight for. Ki-Adi-Mundi took wives because he had to reproduce his culture.

Quinlan Vos, however, is a slight exception. But he appears to have no significant impact on the Jedi Order; this may be contested after, however.

Therefore, at least part of the prophesy, may have been about bringing balance back to the Jedi Order itself.

But in no way am I saying this negates the other parts of the prophesy; namely that which is called "The Sith'Ari."

sure he did, at the end of the clone wars there were 2 jedi and 2 sith.... see? balance...

sure he did, at the end of the clone wars there were 2 jedi and 2 sith.... see? balance...

Infact there was quite a few jedi left after the clone wars.

Infact there was quite a few jedi left after the clone wars.

officially no, unoficially, yes. darn EU always making crap like that for commercial purposes

officially no, unoficially, yes. darn EU always making crap like that for commercial purposes

Its canon which makes it official :)

It's official EU Cheeseinator, Obi-wan even sends out a message to all surviving Jedi to stay away from the temple.
There were thousands of Jedi, nowhere near all of them were serving as Generals, the Purge was not completely successful.

Well, you'd have to check and see what's been retconned since ROTS, since it sure makes it look like they're all dead except for three, and anybody else gets mopped up, because Yoda thought Luke was the "last of the Jedi." Then again Obi-Wan forgot about Leia, so blame that on Lucas's continuity gaffes...

As to the "Light Side" as far as I can remember it was a term invented for the games (correct me if I'm wrong), for gameplay mechanics. In the movies it's never mentioned. There's just "the Force" (or "the Good Side" as Luke mentions in ROTJ) and then the "Dark Side" (the corruption of the Force, via the early Scripts of the "para-force").

So having the Force balanced when Anakin kills Sideous and then comes back from the Darkside (and dies) works just fine for the "prophecy."

The Jedi just didn't realize that all this other crap would happen in between. My question is, why would they think the prophecy would need balancing back in TPM, before they knew about the Sith? Bit of a plot hole I guess...

sure he did, at the end of the clone wars there were 2 jedi and 2 sith.... see? balance...That is not the balance that the prophecy is refering to...

The Jedi just didn't realize that all this other crap would happen in between. My question is, why would they think the prophecy would need balancing back in TPM, before they knew about the Sith? Bit of a plot hole I guess..I saw somewhere recently (New Essential Chronology I think) that the presence of the dark side was felt before the events of TPM. The Jedi were just unaware of the source.

I must confess I don't really trust the NEW Essential Guides too well as they seem poorly researched and hastily thrown together (just so they can have color pictures and mention the NJO and prequel stuff). But if you can produce some quotes that might help... Sometimes those guides quote (or misquote) stuff from other sources, and sometimes they just flat out make stuff up (which often gets ignored later).

That is not the balance that the prophecy is refering to...
I for one think it was. Otherwise you believe the narrow view of the Old Jedi Order, as opposed to the open-minded view of the New Jedi Order. What they sought was not balance, but the supremacy of the Light Side. Balance is an equilibrium of light and dark, good and evil, so to speak.

I must confess I don't really trust the NEW Essential Guides too well as they seem poorly researched and hastily thrown together (just so they can have color pictures and mention the NJO and prequel stuff). But if you can produce some quotes that might help... Sometimes those guides quote (or misquote) stuff from other sources, and sometimes they just flat out make stuff up (which often gets ignored later).I'll see if I can find it. I knew I should have copied the source for a time like this. :)

I for one think it was. You can disagree with Lucas all you want if it makes you happy...

Otherwise you believe the narrow view of the Old Jedi Order, as opposed to the open-minded view of the New Jedi Order. What they sought was not balance, but the supremacy of the Light Side. Balance is an equilibrium of light and dark, good and evil, so to speak. I suggest you read the Dark Nest series. There you will see what the "open-minded" view leads to, and why Luke and the Jedi have done away with it...

How many books are in the DN series as of now? I am waiting for the series to end before I start reading them.

How many books are in the DN series as of now? I am waiting for the series to end before I start reading them.

Its ended and there was three

I suggest you read the Dark Nest series. There you will see what the "open-minded" view leads to, and why Luke and the Jedi have done away with it...
I have, and I see that a balance between the open-minded view of the NJO, and the narrow-minded view of the OJO.