I know that people wanted to see people doing new things, but some people wanted to see the same basic dogfighting, only with new ships! so here is the beta of prequel era asteroids, made by a friend of mine!

Majin Federation Mods Page (http://www.geocities.com/majinrevan/)

Try it out and tell us what you think.


((NOTE: I had nothing to do with this map itself, but pcgamemods seems to be POd at him for some reason, I talked to him about it, and we decided to try to spread the map other ways. Also, please contact him if you're interested on hosting some of the great mods there.))

What part of this do you not understand:

This Model is to be not to be modified in anyway.

????

Originally posted by TK-8252
What part of this do you not understand:



????

As I said, I had nothing to do with the map, just spreading the word. Anyone who thinks that they should have the rights to stop people from making their own mods from that of other pepople really needs a psychological examination. You don't want people to monkey with it, DON'T RELEASE IT. Simple.

Also, if you DL the stuff there, please use save target as, bandwidth is expensive.

Originally posted by TK-8252
What part of this do you not understand:

This Model is to be not to be modified in anyway.

????

Mmm hmm, and just who said that? lucasarts? You don't OWN a model/mod/ect, I'm not in charge of what he did, but if you release a model on the internet for anyone to download, that's where you lose your say as to what happens to it. I wouldn't have done it if I had been in his shoes, but I wasn't.

Originally posted by AIVAS
Mmm hmm, and just who said that?

Mars Marshall. Right in the readme.

Originally posted by AIVAS
You don't OWN a model/mod/ect,

Yes you do. But that's not the issue here.

Originally posted by AIVAS
but if you release a model on the internet for anyone to download, that's where you lose your say as to what happens to it.

Why is it any different over the internet? Say someone creates a masterpiece of art, and sells it. Then, someone steals it, makes the slightest little change to it, and sells it and passes it off as his own work.

Spend months of hard work making a model for an exclusive TC, and you'll be singing a different song when someone steals your work.

Technically when you make a mod for a commercially liscensed Star Wars game it becomes property of LucasArts.

However, that doesn't mean it's okay to copy somebody's mod and then pass it off as your own or modify it without permission.

It's the sort of thing that causes infighting and ruins the whole point of making mods for a game: to have fun and enjoy it.


So it always pays to ask the author first and give credit where credit is due.

Originally posted by Kurgan
So it always pays to ask the author first and give credit where credit is due.
And if they say "No," respect their wishes and don't mess with their work, or they'll stop releasing what they make.

True, but it's too late to do anything about that.

As for the art comment, yes, it IS different, because you are Releasing something FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO USE, you are not postiing a screenshot, you are giving a model (in this case) out to the PUBLIC, and while you say not to modify it, if you are releasing it for the public to download, you really don't have any control over it.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just stating the situation how I see it.

Originally posted by AIVAS
As for the art comment, yes, it IS different, because you are Releasing something FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO USE, you are not postiing a screenshot, you are giving a model (in this case) out to the PUBLIC, and while you say not to modify it, if you are releasing it for the public to download, you really don't have any control over it.
That makes no sense. The legality of copyright law doesn't change just because something is distributed on the internet.
Releasing something for other people to use and enjoy is not the same as giving everyone permission to modify it. Music is made for the enjoyment of the fans (and the singer), but musicians that give their music away freely (a rare thing, with the RIAA looming overhead these days) do not give up their right not to have their work altered, redistributed, or used without their consent.
Just because something is free does not make it fair game. Just because there is no financial transaction does not make it lawful to alter someone else's work. If this were something physical like a piece of art or a sheet of music this wouldn't even be a discussion, but what you have to understand is that the laws do not change just because the medium is purely digital.
I'm not saying it's right, I'm just stating the situation how I see it.
And in the eyes of the law you're wrong, no matter how you see the situation.

Originally posted by Eldritch
That makes no sense. The legality of copyright law doesn't change just because something is distributed on the internet.
Releasing something for other people to use and enjoy is not the same as giving everyone permission to modify it. Music is made for the enjoyment of the fans (and the singer), but musicians that give their music away freely (a rare thing, with the RIAA looming overhead these days) do not give up their right not to have their work altered, redistributed, or used without their consent.
Just because something is free does not make it fair game. Just because there is no financial transaction does not make it lawful to alter someone else's work. If this were something physical like a piece of art or a sheet of music this wouldn't even be a discussion, but what you have to understand is that the laws do not change just because the medium is purely digital.

And in the eyes of the law you're wrong, no matter how you see the situation.

I'm not saying it's legal, I'm saying you can't stop it! Why doesn't anyone understand that? Did someone change the meaning of the words in the english language while I wasn't looking?

Originally posted by AIVAS
I'm not saying it's legal, I'm saying you can't stop it! Why doesn't anyone understand that? Did someone change the meaning of the words in the english language while I wasn't looking?
I can and do if it's submitted to PCGM.

I can't say for certain, but in my experience file sites will remove files that use another author's work without permission if requested. So no, you can't stop anyone from doing it, but you can stop, or at least slow its distribution.

The most sacred, most personal of all the properties, is the work fruit of the thought of a writer ... so it is extremely just that the men who cultivate the field of thought enjoy some fruits from their work, it is essential that during their life and a few years after their death, nobody can dispose of the product of their genius, without their consent.

- Jean Le Chapelier in the Paris Assembly 1791

Obviously, the members of the Napster\Kazaa generation have no respect for the rights or wishes of the people who work hard to create the things that these Napster\Kazaa kids expect to be provided to them, for free, forever.

I don't know why people are so suprised by this spoiled selfish arrogant behavior. It's what they are used to with Napster\Kazaa.

Clearly, these kids are telling authors\creators: "If you work many long hard hours to create something for other people to enjoy, and are "stupid" enough to use the most efficient means available (the Internet) to share your hard work with the vast majority who will simply use it and enjoy it as you intended, I and a few other selfish kids can do whatever we want with it, no matter what you or the law say, hahaha, sucker! (but, um, don't stop making stuff for us to abuse because we generally lack the talent\knowledge\skill\discipline\energy\tools to actually make something ourselves)".

I'll be quoting you at my clan forums, Amidala. :)

Rudeness and general lack of repsect should be punishable by law.

Originally posted by keshire
Rudeness and general lack of repsect should be punishable by law.

*Slams door in Keshires face*

*Gets arrested by Manners police*

Damn you Keshire, and your Manners polllliiiceeee! (Draged away)

Ya know, I don't think I like that idea :)

Though I'm not sure if I'd apply it to this situation, I agree with Amidala's statement in a general sense, really rings true for me.

Am i the only one experiancing DejaVu?

O.K., lemme get stuff straight. What Amidala said makes sense, but so does what Eldritch said.


Agreeing to Amidala: Yes, people are stupid to release files/things to the public and not expect anyone to change/modify them.


Agreeing to Eldtritch: Yes, people would be angry for having things modified. I'm not gonna confess here (I already said all I have to say in my other thread). But, PC Game Mods isn't hosting it right? And they won't, right? Guess what? I am hosting it, and that, you can't stop, because it isn't a large and public site like www.lucasfiles.com) or www.pcgamemods.com) or www.jk3files.com). It is a personal site, and I have the rights to tell anyone I want about my website. Wether they listen or not, that is their choice.


Oh, and now, you may not have to do Save Target As, because I put my mods on different pages. You'll see what I mean when you go there.


Majin Federation Mods Page (http://www.geocities.com/majinrevan)

:fett:

Why don't you just give it up? You're being extremely disrespectful.

Here's the part of Amidala's post that goes with what you're doing:

(but, um, don't stop making stuff for us to abuse because we generally lack the talent\knowledge\skill\discipline\energy\tools to actually make something ourselves)".

Suffice to say the lesson here is that the community at large (including the editing community within that community) frowns strongly on stealing people's work or modifying it without permission.

And unless you want the ire and censure of the community, you don't do stuff like that.

Not hard to understand...

Actually, please read carefully:

1. I gave credit to the original authors, which is a lot better than stealing.

2. I can distribute it freely on a minor site like mine. PC Game Mods is a major and public site.

3. I am a noob modder, and I am just trying to start modding. I practice it a lot so I get better. This whole thing sorta ruins my experience with mods.

4. This is not to be discussed in this thread, I have a whole other thread for it.


There, please stop TK-8252, with your repetitive comments. I can't say anything to Kurgan, because he is a nice fellow (and an administrator) and I've played online with him before and he seemed nice (which makes me very biased).


Here is the site again: Majin Federation Mods Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/majinrevan)

:fett:

It doesn't matter if you give credit. It clearly states in the readme NOT TO MODIFY THE FILE. What part do you not understand? Don't modify it and release it, get it?

If you're a "n00b" modder, then don't mod other people's work, modify the stuff that came with Jedi Academy.

The petition thread was closed, this is the new endless-arguement thread. Welcome.

And if you want me to stop the repetitive comments, stop ripping off people's work and advertising it.

Originally posted by majinrevan

Agreeing to Amidala: Yes, people are stupid to release files/things to the public and not expect anyone to change/modify them.
That wasn't my point at all. If that's all you got out of my post, please read it again. I put "stupid" in quotes because that is the attitude of the Kazaa Kiddies towards people who make the stuff they steal and abuse. The Kids think people are "stupid" to expect Kazaa Kids to have respect. That's sad.

Originally posted by majinrevan

... I have the rights to tell anyone I want about my website. Wether they listen or not, that is their choice.

Rights and responsibilities usually (or at least used to) go hand in hand. Like responsible behavior towards the rights and expressed wishes of the people who created the stuff you "improved" and are posting.

I had already written the following paragraph for the readme of my soon-to-be-released Human Female Expansion Pack http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127411) before this thread was posted, so it isn't directed at any individual, but it is inspired by recent events (and needless to say, Raven has given us permission to modify their work):


== Distribution Notes ==

This mod was created to be ENJOYED BY and USED BY PLAYERS, not to serve as the basis for another skin or mod.

Recent events have shown me that there are some people out there who will take the work of others, make MINIMAL SUPERFICIAL changes, and then distribute it as something 'new' that they 'created', contrary to the explicit wishes of the original creators.

I freely admit that all of this mod is a reworking of the fine work of Raven Software, and without the excellent source material that they provided, I couldn't have created this myself from scratch.

HOWEVER, that being said, I put MANY MANY hours\days\weeks into adding shader effects (hard when you have no prior knowledge of or experience with shaders) and modifying the Raven source material, often on a pixel-by-pixel basis, over and over and over again to get it right.
Most changes weren't simple or easy (especially when you are a skinning noob like me and have never used Photoshop before).

All of the files in this mod were created or edited by me. There is no unmodified Ravensoft material in this mod. A few of the modifications are simple\trivial, but most aren't.

THEREFORE, NO PART OF THIS MOD CAN BE MODIFIED, INCORPORATED INTO, OR DISTRIBUTED AS PART OF ANOTHER MOD OR SKIN WITHOUT MY WRITTEN CONSENT (via email).

If permission for use is granted, this readme file MUST accompany the distribution.

Permission is automatically refused to use any part of this mod for a 'nude' or 'naked' Jaden or female skin.

Sorry to be so firm, but I put a lot of time and effort into this for people to use and enjoy, not so it can be 'borrowed' and claimed by someone else.

You can do the same thing I did and modify the excellent original Raven source material to make something even better than what I made, and you will have true ownership of your work. You'll probably do better starting fresh anyway.

What if everyone who created skins, models, maps, mods, games, movies, music, books, etc. followed your "don't release it if you don't want me to mess with it" philosophy? Would the world be a richer or poorer place for it? We don't want to deny use of our creations to the vast majority who will simply use them and enjoy them while respecting our wishes and rights, just because a few spoiled, selfish, arrogant Kazaa Kids think that anything they download from the Internet is "theirs" to do with as they please (I'm not talking about any particular individual, I'm talking about kids with the Napster\Kazaa attitude in general).

As a practical matter, as small as this community is, the community of active mappers\modellers\skinners\modders is even smaller. Judging from the forums, they all know each other and help each other out with advice and encouragement, and sometimes collaborate on projects. Do you think that a "noob modder" who needs help, advice, and partners is going to get any if he has already developed a reputation for not respecting the creations of others? I think not. What comes around goes around.

Exactly, it helps to be nice in the start then not at all. For example, I always email authors when filming a movie if If I can use a beta map or vehicle, or when placing their models and what not in a map.

Tho if you ask me, people have gotten too protective and too touchy over the last few months over this due to a few people who ripped off their files. I feel everyone should take a deep breath and remember this stuff is done to better ones gaming experiance and fun factor.

The vast majority of people either just use and enjoy things that others create, or are respectful of the wishes of the people who did the REAL WORK (not just editing a .veh file or taking 2 minutes to invert some colors) of creating something. It takes just a few arrogant selfish people to poison the whole atmosphere.

The reason we have to lock up our homes and cars is not the 98% of people who are honest, it's the 2% who think that if they find a home or car that was "stupidly" left unlocked, then they are "entitled" to go in and steal whatever they want (as long as they give credit of course, that makes it all OK:rolleyes: ).

And as long as they sell the stolen goods out of their garage and not a major and public site like Walmart, that's OK too :rolleyes: After all, they have "the right" to sell whatever they want out of their garage, right? :rolleyes:

Ironically, LucasArts does assume that the original creator has his work copyrighted automatically - which actually is true. Long live intellectual copyright. Also; if you don't take my word for it:

"(7) By distributing or permitting the distribution of any New Levels, all creators or owners of any trademark, copyright, or other right, title or interest therein grant to LucasArts an irrevocable, perpetual, royalty-free, sublicensable right to distribute or exploit the New Level by any means or media (whether now known or hereafter invented), and to create and distribute by any means or media (whether now known or hereafter invented) derivative works thereof, and to charge for the distribution of such New Level or such derivative work, with no obligation to account to any creators or owners of the New Level in any manner."

die open source, long live closed source M$

We're really talking about several issues here, all dealing with

Copyright infringement:

Piracy (stealing somebody's product through illegal copying without payment or permission). This would be like downloading the full version of JA or buying a CDR copy off ebay.

Bootlegging (selling somebody's product illegally, perhaps with modification to remove security features to allow indiscriminate copying). This is more akin to illegal distribution (without permission) than anything. Like giving out or selling the JA beta.

Plagiarism (presenting somebody's else's work as your own, perhaps with extremely minimal changes to make it slightly less obvious). This would imply you didn't cite your sources and obtain permission first.


Plagiarism isn't about stealing products (unless you're selling it), but rather about stealing IDEAS, constituting a kind of fraud, by trying to fool the consumer into thinking the ideas are your's when in fact they are somebody elses, who is robbed of the proper credit for the work.

Piracy is the illegal copy of products for distribution, which robs the creator or owner of profit for the work.

Bootlegging is somewhat different than piracy, though it may provide a version of the product not available normally. It allows the seller to make money off of something they don't have a liscense to distribute.


I'm no lawyer, but that's how I understand it.

Anyway, to copy somebody's mod and distribute it as your own or to use it without permission in some way is a violation of the trust within the community.

If a mod maker says in his mod "PLEASE DONT MODIFY THIS AND DISTRIBUTE IT" then please honor his or her wishes.

Congratulations to both Kurgan and Amidala from Chop Shop, the first time recipients of Eldritch's Person(s) of the Month Award.

*presents trophy*